Master Index of Archived Threads


NOT our next closer....

metsguyinmichigan Sep 09 2008 10:57 AM

According to a report in the Daily News, Ambiorix Burgos was arrested this morning for beating up his girlfriend at a hotel near Shea Stadium. According to the story, “he repeatedly punched her on the back, bit her and slapped her.” Burgos will be arraigned today in Queens on assault and harassment charges.

Rockin' Doc Sep 09 2008 11:04 AM

What a loooser. Release his sorry butt.

metirish Sep 09 2008 11:06 AM

Oh wow , what a prick.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 09 2008 11:08 AM

Bobby Parnell would never beat up his girlfriend.

Gwreck Sep 09 2008 12:01 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Sep 09 2008 12:15 PM

Cut him NOW!!!! Edit: For compliance.

AG/DC Sep 09 2008 12:09 PM

"NOW" in capial letters should be followed by four exclamation points, neither more nor less. -- Crane Pool Manual of Style, p. 14.

metirish Sep 09 2008 12:18 PM

We sponsor him , oh dear. http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burgoam01.shtml

sharpie Sep 09 2008 12:22 PM

His only Met win was that come-from-behind day game against the Cubs last year. I was at that game. Also at Kane Davis' only Met win (the blue tarp lounge game).

seawolf17 Sep 09 2008 12:53 PM

metirish wrote: We sponsor him , oh dear. http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burgoam01.shtml Hey, what's this "we" stuff? At least maybe we'll get some visitors out of it.

themetfairy Sep 09 2008 01:01 PM

Idiot

AG/DC Sep 09 2008 01:03 PM

Side question: Does a baseball organization promoting its closer as a thing from Hell singularly bent on destroying the hopes of quivering mortals, and sometimes perhaps coaching them to assume a mentality similar to that profile, lead to closers and would-be closers being disproportionately represented in the roles of baseballers accused of domestic abuse? Discuss.

TheOldMole Sep 09 2008 01:08 PM

It's still only a game. Yeah, it should be taken seriously.

Farmer Ted Sep 09 2008 01:11 PM

Was he our Brian Bannister trade?

Benjamin Grimm Sep 09 2008 01:11 PM

AG/DC wrote: "a baseball organization promoting its closer as a thing from Hell singularly bent on destroying the hopes of quivering mortals" Is that what the Sandman thing is about? I never got that, by the way. And if fact, I had never even seen/heard the Sandman to-do until this July, when I attended a Billy Wagner save opportunity against Colorado at Shea. My seven-year-old daughter, watching the DiamondVision spectacle, said, "What's the big deal about Billy Wagner?"

Centerfield Sep 09 2008 01:14 PM

I'm surprised Burgos had enough control to land any punches where he aimed them. I don't mean to make light of the situation. He is every bit the loser Brett Myers is.

metsguyinmichigan Sep 09 2008 01:37 PM

Now, as I learned today in jury duty, the accused is considered innocent until proven guilty. Then again, I didn't get picked for the trial. Dump 'em!

soupcan Sep 09 2008 02:08 PM

themetfairy wrote: Idiot Who? Burgos or irish for sponsoring him?

themetfairy Sep 09 2008 02:12 PM

soupcan wrote: ="themetfairy"]Idiot Who? Burgos or irish for sponsoring him? Burgos. I can't fault Irish for wanting to sponsor a young Met.

Valadius Sep 09 2008 02:30 PM

Farmer Ted wrote: Was he our Brian Bannister trade? Yes.

OlerudOwned Sep 09 2008 03:45 PM

Centerfield wrote: I'm surprised Burgos had enough control to land any punches where he aimed them. Bravo.

Nymr83 Sep 09 2008 04:11 PM

i hope someone beats the shit out of him too.

SteveJRogers Sep 09 2008 04:11 PM

AG/DC wrote: Side question: Does a baseball organization promoting its closer as a thing from Hell singularly bent on destroying the hopes of quivering mortals, and sometimes perhaps coaching them to assume a mentality similar to that profile, lead to closers and would-be closers being disproportionately represented in the roles of baseballers accused of domestic abuse? Discuss. Other than Burgos, do you have any other examples? Aside from not knowing exactly how much electricity his contracter was installing has Mariano Rivera done anything other than be darn close to a man of the cloth as a married man can be? Do you see John Franco as a country boy who never ever learned to read or write so well, but play the guitar just like ringin a bell?

AG/DC Sep 09 2008 04:31 PM

I don't understand what you're getting at. Did I say anything about Mariano Rivera or anybody specifically? Do I have other examples of relievers involved implicated in spousal assault cases? Yes! Do I know if it's disproportionate from the rest of the baseball population? No! That's why I invited discussion.

SteveJRogers Sep 09 2008 04:47 PM

AG/DC wrote: I don't understand what you're getting at. Did I say anything about Mariano Rivera or anybody specifically? Do I have other examples of relievers involved implicated in spousal assault cases? Yes! Do I know if it's disproportionate from the rest of the baseball population? No! That's why I invited discussion. The song that Billy Wagner/Mariano Rivera come out to is not a reflection on how they conduct themselves. Okay, Wagner talks out of his rear, but we haven't heard a peep about him striking family members, or others. What song did Donnie Moore come out to? I don't think his pitching coaches ever told him to be a "killer" out on the mound. Conversley, Rich Gossage and Al Harbowsky perfected the "killer" look out on the mound, neither of them ever got into off the field spousal incidents.

AG/DC Sep 09 2008 05:09 PM

Let me ask again. Did I say anything about Mariano Rivera or anybody specifically?

SteveJRogers Sep 09 2008 05:15 PM

Okay fine. No, in my opinion, the fact that closers use "Enter Sandman" and the fact that closers are bred to be stone cold killers on the mound is not a predictor of off the field behavior. We are still talking about baseball, easily the least violent of the major team sports.

AG/DC Sep 09 2008 05:18 PM

Which also is beside the point.

SteveJRogers Sep 09 2008 05:25 PM

AG/DC wrote: Which also is beside the point. I thought I was answering this question. ]Does a baseball organization promoting its closer as a thing from Hell singularly bent on destroying the hopes of quivering mortals, and sometimes perhaps coaching them to assume a mentality similar to that profile, lead to closers and would-be closers being disproportionately represented in the roles of baseballers accused of domestic abuse? I'll give you that other than guys that bat cleanup, that is the position on a team that can have that mentality, I don't think its the reason closers and would-be closers are being disproportionately represented in the roles of baseballers accused of domestic abuse. Hell, I'm not even sure if that mentality can be taught at the big league level. Its an "Either you got it, or you don't." situation.

Elster88 Sep 09 2008 06:22 PM

I think AG was kidding around. If not I'll agree with Steve.

seawolf17 Sep 09 2008 06:25 PM

Elster88 wrote: I'll agree with Steve. /head explodes

Elster88 Sep 09 2008 06:29 PM

I only take issue when he posts something stupid.

AG/DC Sep 09 2008 06:35 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Sep 09 2008 06:54 PM

I'm not kidding around. I don't know what the facts are. And haven't asserted them. I don't know how anybody can agree with Steve when he's clearly been operating under the fallacy of the part and the whole. I am concerned with the prevelance of criminal violence in American sports. I don't know if it's disproportionate the prevelance of criminal violence in American society. I am more concerned with the case at hand. I do want to investigate if anything about the culture of sports feeds this. One item in the culture of sports that I suggest may or may not be a factor is the macho image of the closer. If nobody else wants to talk about this, that's fine. If nobody wants to talk about this but Steve, arguing that anecdotal cases discredit the premise outright, than I don't want to talk about it. It's madness.

Elster88 Sep 09 2008 06:43 PM

I don't know that there's evidence one way or the other, except for anecdotal. Where are the statistics on the % of ballplayers that are wife-beaters and the % of subgroups like closers? Don't a small percentage of wives/girlfriends actually report it also? I also would argue that closers are not necessarily bred to have a killer instinct either. Maybe more so than others. Again, it's all anecdotal. The place to start is the nature vs. nurture argument. Who knows why Brett Myers beats his wife? Maybe his father slapped him and his mother when he was a kid. Maybe he's got a small dick and needs to beat his wife to prove to himself that he's a man. Maybe he's just an asshole. I think all those reasons make more sense than baseball is training him to be aggressive. Same for Burgos. I do think you are being a little rough on Steve. But I'm not one to talk.

AG/DC Sep 09 2008 07:06 PM

Elster88 wrote: I don't know that there's evidence one way or the other, except for anecdotal. I'm certain otherwise, that there is hard data on the number of domestic violence arrests American society, easily divideable by age, and in professional sports, easily divideable by sport Elster88 wrote: Where are the statistics on the % of ballplayers that are wife-beaters and the % of subgroups like closers? I hope to find out. ]Don't a small percentage of wives/girlfriends actually report it also? It's an issue worth examining. Is there any clear reason to conclude that that's statistically more or less likely to happen with athletes? Maybe. Maybe not. We'd have to work on that. ]I also would argue that closers are not necessarily bred to have a killer instinct either. I'll disagree. ]Maybe more so than others. Again, it's all anecdotal. There's tons of data. How about figuring out how many closers have entrance metal songs invoking deathly and damnation themes compared to the general pool of MLB players? I suggest that is telling. ]The place to start is the nature vs. nurture argument. Who knows why Brett Myers beats his wife? Maybe his father slapped him and his mother when he was a kid. Maybe he's got a small dick and needs to beat his wife to prove to himself that he's a man. Maybe he's just an asshole. I think all those reasons make more sense than baseball is training him to be aggressive. Same for Burgos. But if sports or baseball of bullpens have an increased prevelance, isn't it worth examining? Isn't the first question you would ask, "Do sports or baseball or bullpens tend to draw more assholes or tend to produce more assholes." ]I do think you are being a little rough on Steve. But I'm not one to talk. Maybe I am. Do you not think that him arguing that Rivera is like a minister is deliberately stirring shit up and deliberately hijacking the thread? (Heck, isn't he --- to take him at face value, and I'm not --- making more assumptions about the incidence of domestic violence among ministers than I am about closers?)

Elster88 Sep 09 2008 07:53 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 09 2008 07:58 PM

AG/DC wrote: ]The place to start is the nature vs. nurture argument. Who knows why Brett Myers beats his wife? Maybe his father slapped him and his mother when he was a kid. Maybe he's got a small dick and needs to beat his wife to prove to himself that he's a man. Maybe he's just an asshole. I think all those reasons make more sense than baseball is training him to be aggressive. Same for Burgos. But if sports or baseball of bullpens have an increased prevelance, isn't it worth examining? Isn't the first question you would ask, "Do sports or baseball or bullpens tend to draw more assholes or tend to produce more assholes." Pro athletes are an intriguing argument. More testosterone usually means more muscles. More testosterone usually means more aggressiveness. I think the bullpen doesn't necessarily attract the a certain demographic of personality but one of low-endurance arms. But I have no idea where to look up this info. You believe it's out there, but I haven't seen it as it relates to baseball. If it is there I'll be interested to read it too. AG/DC wrote: ]I also would argue that closers are not necessarily bred to have a killer instinct either. I'll disagree. Ok, but neither of us have anything to back it up at the moment. ]There's tons of data. How about figuring out how many closers have entrance metal songs invoking deathly and damnation themes compared to the general pool of MLB players? I suggest that is telling. I suggest it's not telling. Mariano's music was chosen by the marketing people in the Yankee front office. I know that's only one guy, but with flaws like that in the data I feel you can't even use it. And does Billy like it because it's a song about death and damnation or because he likes the guitar riff? And when a ballplayer chooses a song for baseball, it may just be one that gets him fired up and not an accruate representation of his personality. I like that song and also like Huey Lewis. But the one I use for entrance music is going to be one that gets me fired up. Again, these are individual examples but are reasons why you can't use the entrance music as an indictator.

metirish Sep 09 2008 07:56 PM

soupcan wrote: ="themetfairy"]Idiot Who? Burgos or irish for sponsoring him? Dying over here....Dude?

AG/DC Sep 09 2008 08:04 PM

You don't think much about looking for a correlation of death-, destruction-, and damnation-themed entrance music and domestic assault? Damn! I mean, darn! http://www.armchairgm.com/List_of_baseball_entrance_music

Elster88 Sep 09 2008 08:19 PM

Ayala's got some silly Mexican guitar thing going on. Now I want nachos and tequila. Thanks Luis.

metsmarathon Sep 09 2008 08:26 PM

well, teh fly in the ointment, of course, is that neither rivera nor wagner chose enter sandman to be their entrance music; rather it was assigned to them by their respective teams at the time. such may be the case elsewhere. of course, the swatter to my fly is that the entrance music being chosen for them is merely emblematic of the aggressiveness expected, demanded, and required of them, which may then influence that same aggressiveness outside the diamond, particularly in those who may already be on the borderline to begin with...

Rockin' Doc Sep 09 2008 08:28 PM

Nymr83 wrote: i hope someone beats the shit out of him too. Burgos is use to it. He generally gets the shit beat out of him when he takes the mound. Interesting question that Edgy poses, but I don't know where an individual would find any data to support any position they may wish to argue.

AG/DC Sep 09 2008 08:32 PM

metsmarathon wrote: of course, the swatter to my fly is that the entrance music being chosen for them is merely emblematic of the aggressiveness expected, demanded, and required of them, which may then influence that same aggressiveness outside the diamond, particularly in those who may already be on the borderline to begin with... I was actually reaching for that swatter.

Elster88 Sep 09 2008 08:33 PM

metsmarathon wrote: well, teh fly in the ointment, of course, is that neither rivera nor wagner chose enter sandman to be their entrance music; rather it was assigned to them by their respective teams at the time. I mentioned that about Mariano, didn't realize the same was true for Billy. Billy chose to bring it to his new team though, so maybe he does like it.

AG/DC Sep 09 2008 08:39 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 09 2008 09:04 PM

AG/DC Sep 09 2008 08:44 PM

I'll even go on to wonder out loud if the mental strain and cogntive dissnonance a reliever suffers when (a) he's expected to be perfect, (b) he inevitably isn't, and (c) he's subject to disproporitionate and often abusive public criticism for being human, may tend to make them excellent candidates for domestic violence arrests.

sharpie Sep 09 2008 08:55 PM

"Enter Sandman" wasn't assigned to Wagner. It was a suggestion by Jeff Bagwell that Wagner liked.

MFS62 Sep 10 2008 04:34 PM

I can't wait for the trial. His defense attorney will probably try to say that quick forward thrusts of his fist are part of his surgery rehab program. drop him Omar, quickly. And, Edgy, I've heard the expression "Closer mentality" and maybe what he did is part of what you asked us to discuss. Later

metirish Sep 10 2008 04:48 PM

How will we all feel if this turns out like say Myers and next season Burgos is back in the bullpen getting outs?. I would be surprised if Minaya just dropped him without letting things play out.

SteveJRogers Sep 10 2008 05:38 PM

MFS62 wrote: And, Edgy, I've heard the expression "Closer mentality" and maybe what he did is part of what you asked us to discuss. I always thought Closer Mentality was more about getting back off the canvas after getting knocked down, and sealing the deal. Anyone can get three quick outs, but the term defines getting the outs when there is a messy situation on your hands, whether it is your doing or not.