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2009 Mets Thoughts

mario25 Sep 28 2008 08:42 PM

I know the Mets just lost but I was thinking about some moves the Mets could make if WE were the GM. I was thinking if I was Omar I would look at Ohman, Torres and Wood for the bullpen, Carl Crawford for LF and Orlando Hudson at 2b and Furcal as a back up plan at 2b if he would be willing to switch positions. I would tell Heilman goodbye along with Ayala, Schoenweis, Pedro, and alot of other pitchers. Perez is to up and down and I think the Mets need a starter. I would like Burnett but I know it is to expensive. I know it is just me babbling on.

metsmarathon Sep 28 2008 08:51 PM

i'm not quite ready to think about next year, until i've had some perspective set in. we have enough second basemen.

DocTee Sep 28 2008 08:55 PM

Perez can go-- too much angst, not enough performance. if he stays (cheaply) fine, but if we go in to next season DEPENDING on him we are in for some serious heartburn.

Rockin' Doc Sep 28 2008 10:05 PM

marathon - "we have enough second basemen." True, buit we need one that's actually good.

metsguyinmichigan Sep 28 2008 10:05 PM

I think a big chunk of the bullpen has to go just because the team has to make big changes there because of the stigma of this mess. I think they have another year of Schoenweis, but I don't know if they're willing to eat that contract. He's been horrid two years in a row. I don't know what is the contract status of Heilman. Supposedly he's pitched all year in pain. Sanchez should go. He appears to be a shadow of his former self. Obviously they need a closer.

OlerudOwned Sep 28 2008 10:31 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 28 2008 10:48 PM

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I don't know what is the contract status of Heilman. Supposedly he's pitched all year in pain. Funny thought, bear with me. This situation reminds me a lot of Braden Looper, as far as being maligned here and supposedly pitching hurt. I say we keep him here on one condition: that he's here as a starter. Honestly, why the hell not? Ever since the Molina Incident, he's been all out of sorts in the bullpen, and I don't see any way he gets back on the rails in a Mets uniform. But he's still got stuff. I don't know if he's eligible for the minors still, but if he is, why not let him take the offseason to get healthy, then start him in Buffalo and let him stretch it out. He's a fastball-changeup pitcher, which can work for a decent starting pitcher if he can mix in a third pitch effectively. He never seems to have consistency with the slider and splitter. Make him work on one of them. See how he handles going through the lineup a second time. If he can't cut it, then I suppose we cut ties. But there's no sense in not trying, because the situation is stagnant right now.

Nymr83 Sep 28 2008 10:31 PM

]He's been horrid two years in a row. he's fine as a STRICTLY L/L matchup guy, the problem is the Mets a) paid him like a setup man not a situational reliever and b) already have Feliciano for that role. Theres no room on the 25-man roster bullpen for Schoenweis and Feliciano.

OlerudOwned Sep 28 2008 10:33 PM

I don't want them to sign a closer because he's a closer. Assemble talented pitchers. Maybe let one of the young guys take over, early in the season. Let 'em gain some confidence. You can make a closer. Love the talent, love the results. Don't fall in love with the title.

AG/DC Sep 28 2008 10:49 PM

Heilman's ineligible for the minors. Also, his problems did not start with Molina.

OlerudOwned Sep 28 2008 11:14 PM

AG/DC wrote: Heilman's ineligible for the minors. Also, his problems did not start with Molina. Well, so was Looper, so I guess he'd have to adjust on the fly. You're spot on correct about the Molina thing, that was more of picking a point of perception on my part and it was lazy. He was actually better by basically every peripheral in '07 than '06, except home runs. Which would make you think he's giving up more fly balls, but his GB/FB rate was actually worse in 2007 than in '06 or '08. He has, however, given up more line drives each progressive season, meaning...what? Is his stuff not as good? Was his low BABIP from last year more a product of luck than pitching, and that a trend of more hard hit balls has caught up with him? Fuck if I know. Relief pitchers fluctuate. Maybe he'll be lights out again next year. It just feels like a really toxic situation right now, and I'm sick of watching them sit around with their thumbs up their asses.

smg58 Sep 29 2008 12:32 PM

I think Murph is our left fielder for some time to come. I'm not worried there. Second base is a sore spot. I have no idea what other teams think Castillo is worth, but I'd move him if I can. Hudson is an obvious person to look at, but if Mark Ellis gets through his recent shoulder surgery in good order he could have good sleeper value. Derek Lowe is not young by any stretch, but he's more consistent than Ollie and more durable than either Burnett or Sheets. He's likely to be the best value of the free agent starters. I'd make an offer to Sabathia, although he's been worked so hard the last two seasons I'd be a little nervous given the contract he's likely to get. The Blue Jays were rumored to be entertaining offers for Roy Halladay at the deadline. If that's true, and they're willing to entertain offers for him again in the offseason, you have to ask what it would take. I'd also look for a decent one-year option for fifth starter. Niese is where Pelfrey was two years ago, and I don't agree with repeating a mistake and putting him in the rotation a year early. I'd like to see Niese, F-Mart, Kunz, and Nick Evans (at first base!) get a full season of AAA, with no pressure on them to help the Mets win next year. If that leaves no room for Mike Carp, then see what kind of reliever you can get for him. Signing a closer is a must. It will take more than one acquisition to make the pen playoff-caliber, but you might as well start at the top. All the focus will be on K-Rod, but he might be a bit overrated at this point while Fuentes is underrated. Feliciano and Schoeneweis can't both come back. I'm not for non-tendering Sanchez or Heilman. I'm not necessarily for keeping both (or either), but they both have enough upside that simply dropping them would not be prudent. The only guy from this year's pen that I'd pencil in for sure for next year is Joe Smith. He needs an out pitch against lefties, but for somebody who's barely been in pro ball for two years he's doing all right.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 29 2008 12:37 PM

smg58 wrote: The only guy from this year's pen that I'd pencil in for sure for next year is Joe Smith. I've been thinking the same thing. I also think that Stokes is worth considering bringing back. And of course, it's too early to know anything for sure about Kunz and Parnell, but they may both end up starting the season in Buffalo.

metirish Sep 29 2008 12:42 PM

I'd take that look at Lowe too , pitches plenty of innings . Heilman needs to go , if ever a guy needed a change it's him. Getting booed on the road just sucks.

Gwreck Sep 29 2008 01:58 PM

The Mets need at least one, if not two starting pitchers next year. I'd like them to get at least one from this list, which is probably the top 10 FA starters out there this year: C.C. Sabathia MIL A.J. Burnett TOR (assumign he opts out) Ryan Dempster CHC Jon Garland LAA Ben Sheets MIL Oliver Perez NYM Derek Lowe LAD Braden Looper STL Jamie Moyer PHI Randy Wolf HOU

Iubitul Sep 29 2008 02:08 PM

I agree with marathon - I'm not ready to think about next year yet, even though I did figure out the number of days until pitchers and catchers last night...

Benjamin Grimm Sep 29 2008 02:15 PM

I'm prepared to say good-bye to Oliver Perez. He's going to command more money than he's worth and if they're going to overpay somebody, they might as well overpay a better pitcher than Oliver Perez. Adam Rubin says in the Daily News today that the Mets aren't freeing up much salary this off-season. He then seems to contradict himself, listing players like Alou, Pedro, Perez and a few others who add up to $31.5 million. He notes that $5.5 million of that will be eaten up by raises to Wright, Reyes, and Santana. But that leaves $26 million. I don't know if he factored Delgado into his math, but if they really have $26 million freed up, they can get a pretty good pitcher and have money left over. (Sabathia would probably use up about 80% of that money, though.) I'm also wondering if the Wilpons will be tempted to expand their budget after two years in a row with near misses.

themetfairy Sep 29 2008 02:38 PM

I agree with marathon and Iubitul - let's wait for the body of 2008 to get cold before thinking about its replacement.

Gwreck Sep 29 2008 02:43 PM

Payroll in 2008 was $137.8 million. Next year's payroll stands at $94 million for the following players: Santana Pelfrey Wagner Schoeneweis Schneider Castro Delgado Castillo Wright Reyes Beltran Chavez Anderson You can figure another ~$7-10 million will go to the players who are still under the Mets control, whether through renewal, arbitration, or contract to avoid arbtration: Maine Niese Feliciano Heilman Sanchez Smith Church Murphy That would put us at $100-$105 million. If they keep the budget they have this year, that's $27 million dollars to find 1-2 starters, a reliever, and left fielder. Plus a backup infelder, perhaps.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 29 2008 02:46 PM

themetfairy wrote: I agree with marathon and Iubitul - let's wait for the body of 2008 to get cold before thinking about its replacement. Nah, I'd rather look ahead, not back.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 29 2008 02:48 PM

Rubin the Snooze today suggests that 27 mills might be a generous figure and that this year's budget was based on receiving po$t$ea$on revenue as well.

AG/DC Sep 29 2008 02:52 PM

Gwreck is the Doug Pappas of the Crane Pool.

themetfairy Sep 29 2008 02:54 PM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: ="themetfairy"]I agree with marathon and Iubitul - let's wait for the body of 2008 to get cold before thinking about its replacement. Nah, I'd rather look ahead, not back. I'd rather avoid looking. Just for the next few days. Carry on, gentlemen.

Centerfield Sep 29 2008 04:26 PM

Gwreck wrote: Payroll in 2008 was $137.8 million. Next year's payroll stands at $94 million for the following players: Santana Pelfrey Wagner Schoeneweis Schneider Castro Delgado Castillo Wright Reyes Beltran Chavez Anderson You can figure another ~$7-10 million will go to the players who are still under the Mets control, whether through renewal, arbitration, or contract to avoid arbtration: Maine Niese Feliciano Heilman Sanchez Smith Church Murphy That would put us at $100-$105 million. If they keep the budget they have this year, that's $27 million dollars to find 1-2 starters, a reliever, and left fielder. Plus a backup infelder, perhaps. I would hope that next year's budget would go beyond that, new stadium and all.

soupcan Sep 30 2008 08:17 AM

I realize its sportstalk radio and that the host's job is to be controversial and generate phone calls but it was a bit over the top yesterday. Francesa was definitively stating several things: -There are only three 'untouchables' on the Mets - Santana, Beltran and Pelfrey. -That Wright and Reyes are 'non-clutch' performers who should be traded while their value is high. -That if the Mets switch managers they can keep the core but if they bring Manuel back they must 'explode the core'. Again - I get the whole 'I'm going to be controversial and say outlandish things to stir up the pot' but to say that to get better this team should trade the two best position players it has ever developed? A guy that's 25 years old and has driven in 100 runs in each of his last 4 seasons? A guy that is one of the most dangerous and exciting players in the game? I just don't understand that thinking. Sure you want people to call in to the show and debate with you but doesn't a host worry about his credibility? I guess not.

Centerfield Sep 30 2008 08:23 AM

Mike Francesa and all the other Yankee fans would want nothing more than the Mets to trade Reyes and Wright. Or to at least label them "non-clutch".

Gwreck Sep 30 2008 08:25 AM

I turned on WFAN on the way to the game on Sunday. Francesa is talking about Oliver Perez, and that Perez has seemed to pitch well in "big" games in the past, and lists the games against the Yankees and in the playoffs in '06 as examples. He then goes on to say that Perez is "making the most important start of his career" that day. That's when I turn him off. You can't talk sense to imbeciles.

AG/DC Sep 30 2008 08:26 AM

Dramatic moves drive up ratings. Rumors of dramatic moves drive up ratings. They also make your job easier.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 30 2008 08:39 AM

Francesa worrying about his credibility would be like Gary Cohen worrying about his hair.

soupcan Sep 30 2008 08:45 AM

I get all of that. I'm just amazed that a guy who is advertises himself as a knowledgable voice of reason would make such ridiculous pronouncements. Trade Wright and/or Reyes to get better??

Vince Coleman Firecracker Sep 30 2008 08:49 AM

soupcan wrote: -That Wright and Reyes are 'non-clutch' performers who should be traded while their value is high. Francessa has said this before- he's in a hee-yuge rush to get Reyes out of town, and isn't shy about saying so at any opportunity. This opinion is, of course, absolutely indefensible, as there may not be a single player in the majors who would bring back equal value to Reyes (Pujols, Utley and Sizemore play lower-skill defensive positions, Ramirez may need to be moved off shortstop in the near future, A-Rod's 7 years older than Reyes, and no pitcher is as valuable as an everyday player. Only Mauer and McCann offer similar value to Reyes, and I think a move for either of those players for Reyes would leave just as big a hole as it fills) I don't know why I ever turn on that station, besides to listen to the games. I guess I just get bored in the car from time to time. May I suggest listening to the Diane Rehm Show, the Leonard Lopate Show or Dennis Elsas during weekday afternoons? I feel I'm always a happier, smarter person when I remember to do that.

soupcan Sep 30 2008 08:51 AM

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: I don't know why I ever turn on that station, besides to listen to the games. I guess I just get bored in the car from time to time. May I suggest listening to the Diane Rehm Show, the Leonard Lopate Show or Dennis Elsas during weekday afternoons? I feel I'm always a happier, smarter person when I remember to do that. You are absolutely right.

AG/DC Sep 30 2008 08:52 AM

I think he's a jerkface just making noise, but Hanley Ramirez is the best asset in baseball right now.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 30 2008 08:53 AM

I bailed on WFAN over three years ago. Now I listen to NPR. I too feel smarter and happier.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Sep 30 2008 08:55 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 30 2008 08:57 AM

AG/DC wrote: I think he's a jerkface just making noise, but Hanley Ramirez is the best asset in baseball right now. If his defensive improvement isn't just a one year fluke, I agree; but up until this season, he's been an absolute butcher in the field. I think he was in the negative fifties on the plus minus system last year. Edit- nope, he was "only" -37

metsmarathon Sep 30 2008 08:55 AM

it really is weird how much he dislikes both wright and reyes... and of course, on espn radio, michael kay was going on and on about how the mets should retain omar minaya, who's done a good job, but should axe manuel, because he didnt get them into the playoffs and that's the same standard they set for willie (!?) my head nearly exploded. manuel should be safer than omar, and reyes and wright are not a/the problem

soupcan Sep 30 2008 08:59 AM

metsmarathon wrote: manuel should be safer than omar, and reyes and wright are not a/the problem I agree - how is Manuel to blame here? We could see him trying anything and everything to get that bullpen to work. what else could you ask of the guy? He came into this with a great resume and had immediate success. Injuries to Easley, Maine, Tatis and Wagner completely hamstrung him. Omar's bullpen's have been horrific the last two seasons.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 30 2008 09:03 AM

I agree. Jerry did a decent job with the flawed team that Omar provided him. I do think Jerry made a few mistakes in his bullpen juggling along the way, but he was in a bad situation. Things were bound to go wrong and no manager could have consistently avoided disaster. The fact that the Mets won so many games after Wagner was lost should be to Jerry's credit. The Daily News had their keep him/dump him survey yesterday and published the results today. A large majority of fans want to keep Reyes, so this negativity on the airwaves about Jose doesn't seem to be getting through to the fans. The only ones who the fans wanted to dump were Castillo (94%), Pedro (81%), Schoeneweis (91%), Sanchez (77%), Feliciano (70%), Ayala (69%), Heilman (83%) and Omar (60%). On the "Keep him" list are Reyes (84%), Wright (89%), Beltran (87%), Easley (54%), Murphy (88%), Evans (70%), Church (77%), Perez (52%), Maine (89%), Pelfrey (91%), Smith (72%) , Delgado (73%), and Manuel (74%).

themetfairy Sep 30 2008 09:05 AM

I never listen to WFAN. This is where I come for Mets rantings. At least around here we try to back up our rantings with evidence.

soupcan Sep 30 2008 09:08 AM

I know - its a bad habit.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 30 2008 09:09 AM

Try listening to something else. I predict you'll find the difference refreshing (even if you just listen to radio static) and you won't miss it and you won't want to go back.

Frayed Knot Sep 30 2008 09:11 AM

]There are only three 'untouchables' on the Mets - Santana, Beltran and Pelfrey ... that Wright and Reyes are 'non-clutch' performers who should be traded while their value is high ... That if they bring Manuel back they must 'explode the core'. I just don't understand that thinking. Francesa's problem (with this topic anyway) is that he wholeheartedly believes in the clutch fairy. His view is that players either possess or lack the 'clutchness' gene and that any patterns associated with such an innate trait show themselves early and are unlikely to change over time. So in his world if you have a choice of starting Sabathia, Santana, Lincecum or Beckett for a big game you'd be stupid to pick anyone other than Beckett on account of him being a "proven post-season pitcher" even though his season wasn't nearly as good as the others. Ergo, in the world of the clutch fairy, since Reyes & Wright have NOT fared well enough during the last three Septs/Octs it's proof not only that they haven't but that they haven't because they can't and is a sign that they never will. So seeing as how those two represent the core (Beltran gets a pass on account of his 2005 October) if the Mets want to "take the next step" they're not going to get there unless a Rollins, Howard, Braun, type of "PCP" player (Proven Clutch Performer) is brought in instead of one or both of them.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Sep 30 2008 09:14 AM

Of course, if you've never listened to Francessa, [url=http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2008/07/my-sauces-have-told-me-that-i%E2%80%99m-a-full-of-s-t-a-hole.html]this[/url] wouldn't be nearly as funny as it is.

metirish Sep 30 2008 09:16 AM

One day last week I was home from work and tuned to YES to see what Francesa was talking about , basically he saying how Wright is terrible in so called big games.......like A-Rod he's a terrible clutch hitter.

soupcan Sep 30 2008 10:33 AM

="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Of course, if you've never listened to Francessa, [url=http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2008/07/my-sauces-have-told-me-that-i%E2%80%99m-a-full-of-s-t-a-hole.html]this[/url] wouldn't be nearly as funny as it is. And it is very funny. Thanks.

Frayed Knot Sep 30 2008 12:27 PM

Just flicked on the radio but it sounds like the entire first hour was hashing over the same topic; Met fan callers wanting to hold onto Reyes & Wright and Francesa mocking them for being overly sentimental (sounds a bit like Ira/Sal, no?). MF is proposing hypothetical deals of either/or for the likes of Utley, Rollins, or Youkilis based on the 'GiGS' theory (grass is greener) that the Mets are sure to come out ahead becuase those guys, unlike the ones here, are "clutch", "gamers", or "winners". He's also totally dismissing any age difference in the process. Just looked up a quick example: Wright 2008: .302/.390/.534 -- and in Sept 2008: .340/.416/.577 Utley 2008: .292/.369/.526 -- and in Sept 2008: .284/.369/.443 But Utley "knows how to get it done" in the clutch. Wright turns 26 this winter. Utley turns 30 at the same time and when he was Wright's age had ~ 400 total ABs in the major leagues

Benjamin Grimm Sep 30 2008 12:41 PM

Wright-for-Utley is about as close as we can currently get to the legendary Williams-for-DiMaggio non-deal.

AG/DC Sep 30 2008 12:42 PM

The only thing the Mets should be doing with Jose Reyes is maybe tacking two more years onto his contract.

Fman99 Sep 30 2008 12:44 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 30 2008 12:47 PM

Francesa is a 9.5 on the cuntometer. Some guys don't come through in the playoffs or late season moments until late in their career. Randy Johnson and Barry Bonds both come to mind. <insert>

metirish Sep 30 2008 12:44 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 30 2008 12:45 PM

It can't be easy for MF to kill 5 hours on his own these days. ] based on the 'GiGS' theory (grass is greener) I like it.....

Benjamin Grimm Sep 30 2008 12:47 PM

Fman99 wrote: Francesa is a 9.5 on the cuntometer. Punch him in the neck!

Vince Coleman Firecracker Sep 30 2008 12:59 PM

AG/DC wrote: The only thing the Mets should be doing with Jose Reyes is maybe tacking two more years onto his contract. Yeah, but that'll probably involve a bit of a pay raise. Not that I'm against it, but I think the Wilpons like having on of the best players in the game working for them for peanuts.

metirish Oct 01 2008 06:34 AM

Can we just make John Harper the General Manager?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 01 2008 07:26 AM

metirish wrote: Can we just make John Harper the General Manager? Bite your toungue.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 01 2008 10:01 AM

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: Yeah, but that'll probably involve a bit of a pay raise. Not that I'm against it, but I think the Wilpons like having on of the best players in the game working for them for peanuts. Nah. They were just saving up for Luis Castillo.

metirish Oct 02 2008 07:38 AM

="soupcan"] ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Of course, if you've never listened to Francessa, [url=http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2008/07/my-sauces-have-told-me-that-i%E2%80%99m-a-full-of-s-t-a-hole.html]this[/url] wouldn't be nearly as funny as it is. And it is very funny. Thanks. Finally got to view that link last night , quite funny. David Lennon rebuffs Francesa in his blog. ] Why not trade Jeter and A-Rod? Just listening to Mike Francesa trying to incite Mets fans by repeating over and over again how the Mets should trade Wright or Reyes. Yes, it's true, the Mets have had back-to-back collapses with both of those 20-something All-Stars on their team. So let's make a comparison to the shortstop and third baseman in the Bronx. Obviously Jeter has four World Series rings and A-Rod is a three-time MVP. But the Yankees have not won a World Series since 2000 and have not advanced past the first round of the playoffs since 2004. The Mets, for argument's sake, made it to Game 7 of the NLCS as recently as 2006. Is there something fundamentally wrong with the "core group" of Yankees? Let's take a look at the numbers for Jeter and A-Rod this season. Jeter ... .300/.363/.408 .... 88 R .... 11 HRs ... 69 RBI ... .317 RISP A-Rod ...302/.393/.573 ... 104 R ... 35 HRs ... 103 RBI .. .271 RISP Now let's take a look at the expendable Reyes and Wright: Reyes ... .297/.358.475 ... 113 R ... 16 HRs ... 68 RBI ... .277 RISP Wright ... .302/.390/.534 ...115 R ... 33 HRs ...124 RBI .. .243 RISP Oops. Almost forgot. Let's also throw in their 2008 salaries: Jeter .... $20 million A-Rod .. $27 million Reyes ... $4 million Wright ... $5 million So what core is really the problem here? Does it make any sense, financially or otherwise, for the Mets to trade one of their two, popular young players out of spite? Because they missed the playoffs twice in a row? Because Wright had a tough year in clutch situations? C'mon. Be serious. One other thing. Check out what Wright batted with RISP the previous three years: .310, .365 and .298.

soupcan Oct 02 2008 08:51 AM

Well, Francesa would rebut - and has - that you can't compare the four guys - or at least not Jetah. Jeets has 4 rings and has been a proven clutch performer since he broke inta the majahs. I agree its a completely assinine propostion. When Mets fans call in to debate with him he says that they are looking at Wright and Reyes through rose-colored glasses. Because the two guys were home-grown, Mets fans have an emotional attachment to them which prevents the fans from viewing the situation objectively. Even if that were true, Francesa himself has stated in the past - although I'm sure he would deny it if I called him on it - that homegrown stars are worth more to a team and its fan base than free agents. He's an arrogant, condescending, know-it-all, douchebag who still takes credit for the Mets bringing Piazza to New York.

metirish Oct 02 2008 08:53 AM

soupcan wrote: Well, Francesa would rebut - and has - that you can't compare the four guys - or at least not Jetah. Jeets has 4 rings and has been a proven clutch performer since he broke inta the majahs. I agree its a completely assinine propostion. When Mets fans call in to debate with him he says that they are looking at Wright and Reyes through rose-colored glasses. Because the two guys were home-grown, Mets fans have an emotional attachment to them which prevents the fans from viewing the situation objectively. Even if that were true, Francesa himself has stated in the past - although I'm sure he would deny it if I called him on it - that homegrown stars are worth more to a team and its fan base than free agents. He's an arrogant, condescending, know-it-all, douchebag who still takes credit for the Mets bringing Piazza to New York. I never heard the Piazza thing , what did he claim to do?

soupcan Oct 02 2008 09:07 AM

Piazza had just been traded to the Marlins for Sheffield. The Marlins were looking to just dump salary and the whole world knew that Piazza was on the block. The Mets had an all-star catcher in Hundley and were (according to steve Phillips) satisfied with their catcher. In fact Phillips went to Hundley and personally told him that the Mets were NOT in the market for Piazza. Francesa and Russo went nuts on the air for days saying that Piazza was more than just an upgrade at catcher - he was the type of player that would turn the franchise around for years to come, etc., etc. Supposedly Doubleday after hearing days of Francesa rantings, directed Phillips to go after Piazza. Personally I've always found it hard to believe that a blowhard radio guy convinced an owner to overrule the decisions of his own GM.

Centerfield Oct 02 2008 09:08 AM

This, of course, has never been confirmed by Doubleday or Phillips, only by Francessa and Russo.

soupcan Oct 02 2008 09:09 AM

Correct.

HahnSolo Oct 02 2008 09:17 AM

The story continues to have life because you still get the idiot fan out there who calls in every now and them to tell them that if it wasn't for Mike and Chris's campaigning the trade would not have happened. I never directly heard, and I listened a lot, either Mike or Chris take credit for bringing Piazza here.

Frayed Knot Oct 02 2008 09:23 AM

]Well, Francesa would rebut - and has - that you can't compare the four guys - or at least not Jetah. Jeets has 4 rings and has been a proven clutch performer since he broke inta the majahs. And for exactly the reason I said earlier in this thread; that he believes (as did his former partner) that players are either clutch or unclutch and therefore once one is established on one side or the other they'll remain that way for the future. - So Jeter = established clutch and any instances where he isn't is the outlier and normalcy will quickly return. - ARod is NOT clutch and therefore getting a lesser player for him could still be an upgrade even though there are no real upgrades to ARod. - and now Wright & Reyes, on the basis of the last two Septs, are flawed and therefore, like ARod, are part of the problem I chuckle up at Lennon's use of stats in his column only because stats are useless in the face of "clutch" arguments since proponents of the clutch/choke dichotomy theory only cite evidence which backs up their point while ignoring any other. MF did this very thing by using numbers one minute to show how unclutch Wright has been, and then minutes later dismissing a caller who chimed in with contradictory data based on the fact that "you can make stats say anything you want". Oh.

soupcan Oct 02 2008 09:40 AM

HahnSolo wrote: I never directly heard, and I listened a lot, either Mike or Chris take credit for bringing Piazza here. He never says 'thank you' when a caller says that, but his dismissals and denials just drip with insincerity that you can see the smugness. Do you really think he doesn't believe it was because of him?

HahnSolo Oct 02 2008 09:44 AM

I know his act, I'm sure he believes it. Just wanted to point out for those that are not familiar with him that he never goes on air and claims "I brought Piazza here!" like the schmuck hosts out in the heartland who boast about how they got coaches fired.

metsmarathon Oct 03 2008 09:25 AM

my head exploded yesterday when francessa suggested that there's some 25 guys in the league that you'd have to at least consider trading wright or reyes for. and for the life of me, i cannot think of too many perennial mvp candidates who play gold glove* caliber defense, and are young and signed to favorable long term contracts, like wright. i mean, even if i were a cold-hearted gm who didnt care about his home-grownedness, there's gotta be no more than 5 pitchers i would listen to offers to trade wright for, regardless of contract status, and prolly no more than 5 hitters. i'm not sure if there are more than 15 players i'd listen to offers for reyes for. and neither chase utley nor jimmy rollins are on either list, mike. ... oh, also, don mattingly is an abberration in that he's the only home grown yankee with no rings that the fans love. the exception, as it were, that proves the rule that yankee fans only love home grown players who deliver rings. and as he's going on and on about this, all i can think of is... other than mattingly, what really good home grown yankees never got rings, that the yankee fans would have an opportunity to hate? i mean, with 26 rings in 100 or so years, most home grown yankees, good or bad, got rings, didn't they? ... * 'gold glove' meaning plays excellent defense, not has won an award, as the best defenders do not always win the award, and bad defenders sometimes do. similar to 'mvp caliber'

Benjamin Grimm Oct 03 2008 09:31 AM

Mel Stottlemyre? Roy White? I think they both played in the losing cause in the 1964 World Series, but I don't know (I'd have to look it up) if either was ever with a World Series winner. (I guess 1962 would be most likely.)

batmagadanleadoff Oct 03 2008 09:34 AM

metsmarathon wrote: my head exploded yesterday when francessa suggested that there's some 25 guys in the league that you'd have to at least consider trading wright or reyes for. In my entire life, I don't think that I've spent as much as three hours combined, voluntarily listening to that show. The only time I listen is when I'm a captive passenger, riding in someone else's car, or when I want to find out whether a Met game might get canceled due to the weather conditions of that particular day.

AG/DC Oct 03 2008 09:43 AM

Packages can always be built, but heres the list of players I'd consider in one-for-one deals for David Wright: Hanley Ramirez I'd likely consder and reject it, but there you have it. Ramirez is the best asset in the league right now, but not so much better than Wright that he trumps the heart.

AG/DC Oct 03 2008 09:43 AM

batmagadanleadoff wrote: ="metsmarathon"]my head exploded yesterday when francessa suggested that there's some 25 guys in the league that you'd have to at least consider trading wright or reyes for. In my entire life, I don't think that I've spent as much as three hours combined, voluntarily listening to that show. The only time I listen is when I'm a captive passenger, riding in someone else's car, or when I want to find out whether a Met game might get canceled due to the weather conditions of that particular day. Word.

soupcan Oct 03 2008 09:56 AM

Its a bad habit, that I readily admit.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 03 2008 10:01 AM

I always felt Francessa was much more arrogant and much less entertaining than Russo. The show is worse than ever.

Frayed Knot Oct 03 2008 11:17 AM

AG/DC wrote: Packages can always be built, but heres the list of players I'd consider in one-for-one deals for David Wright: Hanley Ramirez Who is, perhaps not coincidently, the only one that BP put ahead of Wright in their list of [url=http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7976]players they'd most want to build around[/url] over the next 5-7 years.

metsmarathon Oct 03 2008 02:05 PM

yup. and reyes is sixth!

Fman99 Oct 05 2008 06:45 PM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: ="Fman99"]Francesa is a 9.5 on the cuntometer. Punch him in the neck! Finding Francesa's neck is like finding a unicorn.

Rockin' Doc Oct 05 2008 07:18 PM

Fman99 wrote: ="Benjamin Grimm"] Fman99 wrote: Francesa is a 9.5 on the cuntometer. Punch him in the neck! Finding Francesa's neck is like finding a unicorn. Finding his neck has to be much easier than finding his brain. You'd likely need a proctologist to locate either one.

OlerudOwned Oct 05 2008 10:22 PM

For whatever it may be worth, Francessa certainly brings out the best of the worst in us.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Oct 08 2008 09:03 AM

="Frayed Knot"] ="AG/DC"]Packages can always be built, but heres the list of players I'd consider in one-for-one deals for David Wright: Hanley Ramirez Who is, perhaps not coincidently, the only one that BP put ahead of Wright in their list of [url=http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7976]players they'd most want to build around[/url] over the next 5-7 years. I'd only trade Wright or Reyes for Ramirez if I knew his defense at short from this year would be his norm from now on, or that he could play centerfield at a gold-glove caliber level. Of the other players listed in BP's top 5, I think Reyes is probably more valuable than Sizemore and Longoria due to defensive value and track record, respectively. I also will never believe that Pujols was born in 1980 unless Doc Brown picks me up in the Delorean and brings me to the hospital as Mama Pujols is giving birth. So, players that might be an upgrade from Wright or Reyes: Ramirez (maybe) Players that are just about as valuable as Wright or Reyes: Mauer McCann Longoria Sizemore A-Rod Santana Pujols Of course, if Tampa Bay offered me Longoria and Kazmir for Wright, I'd do it in a second; but, outside of Ramirez, there isn't a single player in the majors I'd trade either Reyes or Wright for in a one-for-one swap. I would, however, trade Mike Francesca for a bag of licorice twizzlers, and I HATE licorice twizzlers.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 08 2008 09:11 AM

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: I also will never believe that Pujols was born in 1980 unless Doc Brown picks me up in the Delorean and brings me to the hospital as Mama Pujols is giving birth. Funny line. I always thought the same thing. About Pujols age. Not necessarily about time traveling in the Delorean just to confirm Pujols' age. If Pujols were truly born in 1980, he'd be entering his prime right about now, and might be expected to have his very best seasons during the next three or four years. Unimaginable, right? Though this would hardly prove the issue, lets' see if there's significant improvement coming up, or a significant decline. The latter would tend to suggest that Pujols might have shaved a few years off his birth certificate, but would hardly constitute irrefutable proof on the matter. He should win the MVP this year, agreed?

AG/DC Oct 08 2008 09:17 AM

Chipper is the only one who sniffed his air, and he had over 100 fewer plate appearances, so yeah, absolutely.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 08 2008 09:19 AM

That Delgado talk sure died down, didn't it? I bet Ryan Howard, rightly or wrongly, gets consideration for his strong September.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Oct 08 2008 09:29 AM

Berkman also had a great year, but right now I think we're in a time when every NL MVP should default to Pujols and every AL MVP should default to A-Rod, barring someone having a ridiculously superior season.

metirish Oct 10 2008 12:15 PM

Silly Hot Stove talk ] Frank Russo, on New York Baseball Digest Radio's Yankee Special, mentioned that his connections have shared that the Mets are accepting inquiries for Carlos Beltran. And, further, according to Russo, his sources have also shared that there's a rumor of a possible deal between the Mets and Yankees which would breakdown as follows: Carlos Beltran from the Mets to the Yankees in exchange for Robinson Cano (with the Yankees taking on most of Cano's contract), either Jose Veras or Brian Bruney, Ian Kennedy, and another prospect from the Yankees system.