Master Index of Archived Threads


Arbitrary

Centerfield Oct 10 2008 08:50 AM

Borrowing from Vic's post in another thread, below are the unrestricted free agents from this year's team along with their 2008 salaries. Pedro Martinez (08=$11m) Moises Alou (08=$7.5m) O.Hernandez (08=$6.5m) O.Perez (08=$6.5m) Luis Ayala - (08=$1.7m) Matt Wise - (08=$1.2m) T.Armas,jr - (08=$1m) Damien Easley - (08=$0.95m) F.Tatis - (08=$0.56m) Assuming none of these guys sign with another team before the deadline, who do you offer arbitration to? Keep in mind if it goes to an arbitrator, they are guaranteed to make 80% of this past year's salary despite performance.

Willets Point Oct 10 2008 08:53 AM

Ollie and Fernando.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 10 2008 08:54 AM

Easley, Tatis, Ayala, Perez. Perez won't accept, of course, but you have to offer it in order to get the compensation of a draft pick if he signs elsewhere.

Frayed Knot Oct 10 2008 09:09 AM

Perez definitely, and probably Ayala. Ollie is the only one likely to net you any draft compensation if he leaves so you'd offer to him for that reason alone. Of the others, Tatis for sure and maybe Easley are worth looking into bringing back. But if they can't land them at a decent price through negotiation they probably won't go the arbi route.

Fman99 Oct 10 2008 09:11 AM

Willets Point wrote: Ollie and Fernando. Yep.

seawolf17 Oct 10 2008 09:29 AM

I'd say Ayala as well as Ollie and Fernando. You have to let the big three at the top go.

Gwreck Oct 10 2008 10:09 AM

I wouldn't offer arbitration to Easley unless you want to keep him. Which I don't think we do.

duan Oct 13 2008 05:20 AM

i could actually justify doing it with Alou too. Just as long as we build the redundancy.

Rockin' Doc Oct 13 2008 05:34 AM

Assuming I had the power to act as GM (now that would be scary). I would definitely offer arbitration to Perez. I would likely offer it to Tatis and Easley. I would certainly do all that I could within reason to resign Tatis and Easley to short term deals. They provides decent pop to the bench and having them on board would allow me concentrate on the holes at second base and left field. And of course, the bullpen needs a major overhauling and upgrade. A starter for the rotation is yet another need that must be addressed.

soupcan Oct 13 2008 07:18 AM

I'm on board with Ollie, Fernando and Ayala as well.

metsguyinmichigan Oct 13 2008 07:27 AM

duan wrote: i could actually justify doing it with Alou too. Just as long as we build the redundancy. But what if he decides to come back? Are the Mets then on the hook? I think there are limits on how much a player's salary can be lowered.

AG/DC Oct 13 2008 07:47 AM

As long as the Mets build in the redundancy and don't spend the year hoping for more from him. Obviously, you'd like to pay him less. I'd've loved having a pinch-hitter of Alou's skills on the team last year.

MFS62 Oct 13 2008 08:09 AM

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I think there are limits on how much a player's salary can be lowered. Yes. The least they can offer is 80% of the previous year's salary. Later

metsguyinmichigan Oct 13 2008 09:49 AM

MFS62 wrote: ="metsguyinmichigan"] I think there are limits on how much a player's salary can be lowered. Yes. The least they can offer is 80% of the previous year's salary. Later That would make Alou a pretty expensive pinch-hitter, no? What a shame this guy couldn't stay even a little healthy.

Rockin' Doc Oct 13 2008 10:41 AM

Without a doubt, Alou is a very good hitter and would be an asset to the team if he could actually be healthy enough to play. However, $6 mil. for a pinch hitter that generally spends more time on the DL than on the active roster seems ludicrous to me. That money could be put to far better use in my opinion.

Frayed Knot Oct 13 2008 11:24 AM

Unless there's FA compensation involved: Perez, and possibly Ayala or for players not yet at FA-gency: none of this list there's not a lot to gain for the team in offering Arb, nor to the player in accepting it. If you want a vet back arbitration just locks you into a price you might not want -- certainly the case with Alou. And for the players accepting it would lock them into one team and a price w/o the benefit of testing the open market. For veteren bench players you generally either negotiate a deal with them or you don't. Arbitration rarely enters the process.

smg58 Oct 13 2008 01:14 PM

You have to offer to Perez. I'd offer to Tatis and Easley, but I would intend to re-sign at least Tatis. Ayala's a tougher call. He might have gotten enough saves to justify a Type B designation, in which case there might be some benefit to offering arbitration. On the other hand, if he takes our offer he could probably get $2M, and I don't think he's worth that. I'm not sure Moises is worth more than a minor-league deal at this point.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 13 2008 01:43 PM

I think I'd like to keep Ayala for 2009. (But I can also see the argument for letting him go.) They have to refurbish their pen next year, and I'd have them keep Stokes and Smith. But Ayala returning in a different role might be a good thing. I don't want to see him start 2009 as their "closer" especially with it being the first year at Citi Field.* * I know, that doesn't make any sense. But sportswriters keep saying things like that and I wanted to sound more "professional."

Valadius Oct 13 2008 07:27 PM

I'm with Willets.

Nymr83 Oct 13 2008 10:00 PM

Perez, Ayala, Tatis, and Easley for me. No way do i offer it to Martinez, Alou, Hernandez, or Armas. I don't want 3 of those guys back at all, and I'd be happy to have Alou back only if he isn't "plan A" in the outfield.

Gwreck Oct 13 2008 10:05 PM

I'm surprised by how many people would offer arbitration to Easley. I think if the Mets offered it, he'd take it. And then we'd be stuck with him for next year, as I don't think he'd get a better offer somewhere else. Two years in a row, he's been hurt when we really needed him. I have no doubt we can find a backup middle infielder with a little pop somewhere else who's not 38 years old.

Nymr83 Oct 13 2008 10:45 PM

i kinda disagree, he's a middle infielder and occassional corner outfielder with some power. i'm not sure where else you'll find that power off the bench.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 14 2008 06:05 AM

="Nymr83"]i kinda disagree, he's a middle infielder and occassional corner outfielder with some power. i'm not sure where else you'll find that power off the bench. Less than 300 ABs, more than 6 HRs Greg Dobbs Geoff Jenkins Matt Stairs* Luis Gonzalez* Greg Norton Austin Kearns Ron Belliard Elijah Dukes That's only the NL East! I know Dukes ain't really a bench player but I hope this shows how common and replaceable Easley actually is. Not to mention he had more turns at the plate than any of the above, and at his advanced age he hasn't been able to answer the bell at the crucial moment two years straight. It'd be an incredible show of hubris and lack of creativity to invite him back a third time. *-38 or older.

AG/DC Oct 14 2008 06:28 AM

Problem is that, with growing bullpens, getting multiple skills out of your bench players becomes more of a demand. Being a middle infielder that can turn around a fastball like some of them guys above is what keeps him in clover. Not arguing for him, just framing it some.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 14 2008 06:46 AM

Easley was a good role player and I'd be glad to have him back but I wouldn't be upset to see him go. A lot depends on how the rest of the team is structured. He's the kind of guy who might fit in well, or he might be a redundant part. Guys like Easley are the ones you would ideally make decisions about in February or March, not October or November.

AG/DC Oct 14 2008 07:18 AM

Your point is well taken, but unitl the free agent season begins in earnest, artibration and re-signiings are what we have to talk about. You'll still run into Mets fans out there who rail against Steve Phillips for making his first move after the 2000 World Series the re-signing of Lenny Harris. It's a play I occaasionally co-star in. Me: Well, just because it's the first transaction he completed doesn't mean it was his top priority. Angry Mets Fan: LENNY HARRIS! Me: You know, I look at the failure of that offseason as not being ahead of the ball in replacing Mike Hampton. Hampton bolts for un-Godly money. They're right to let him go. But then they throw frontline starter money at Kevin Appier. I mean, admittedly.... Angry Mets Fan: LENNY! FUCKING! HARRIS!

Frayed Knot Oct 14 2008 07:32 AM

An attitude which reminds me a bit of fans who act as if whoever the manager calls on as the first pinch-hitter of the game has somehow been designated as teacher's pet. Is the best reliever the first one called on?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 14 2008 08:51 AM

Jose Vidro Miguel Olivo Jesus Flores Jeff Baker Jason Michaels Ruchie Sexson Chris Coste Fernando Tatis Chad Tacy Ian Stewart Hank Blalock Juan Rivera Frank Thomas Cliff Floyd Mike Fontenot Matt Joyce Brandon Moss Ben Zobrist Brian Anderson Nomar Garciaparra Craig Monroe Travis Buck Johnny Gomes Ramon Castro Joe Mather Nelson Cruz

metsguyinmichigan Oct 14 2008 09:46 AM

One of these things is not like the other -- and that thing is Hank Blalock. Or did his injury pretty much ruin him?

Nymr83 Oct 14 2008 10:31 AM

]Less than 300 ABs, more than 6 HRs of the guys you named only Belliard is a middle infielder

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 14 2008 11:03 AM

Vidro, Nomah, Stewart, Tatis, Baker, Fontenot all play some infield too. My main point isn't about these guys though -- it's that at this point next year that list will include a whole new set of names. Omar IMO has to do a better job at finding those guys, not just clinging to those who'd made it.

Frayed Knot Oct 14 2008 12:08 PM

All this got me a bit curious about bench strength and perception thereof. And maybe PH-ing alone isn't teh best measure of it, but it's a quick 'n easy way to get a handle on it. NYM - PH: 234 ABs, 53 Hits, 6 2Bs, 1 3B, 4 HR, .226/..303/.312 Per/team Avg of rest of NL: 235 ABs, 54 Hits, 10 2Bs, 1 3B, 5 HR, .229/..308/.348 In short, we were a little light in the power dept but otherwise about average.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 14 2008 12:21 PM

Another look at bench stats, using the box score data in the UMDB. I looked at production from players who were not in the starting lineup, both for the Mets and their opponents. Mets: 354 AB, 80 H, 9 2B, 1 3B, 6 HR, 38 BB, 1 HBP, 1 SF. .226 Avg., .308 Slg., .302 OBP. Mets opponents: 416 AB, 104 H, 16 2B, 1 TR, 14 HR, 39 BB, 2 HBP, 3 SF, .250 Avg., .394 Slg., .315 OBP. The Mets clearly got out-benched in 2008.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 14 2008 12:23 PM

In 2006, the Mets bench had 330 AB, 67 H, 20 2B, 1 3B, 4 HR, 29 BB, 3 HBP and 2 SF. Their opponents had 413 AB, 90 H, 21 2B, 3 3B, 9 HR, 39 BB, 4 HBP, and 2 SF.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 14 2008 12:27 PM

Not to commit the sin of small samples or anything but trailing 3-1 in the 6th inning of a game we absolutely had to win, with 2 men on, and prepared to turn things over to the shakiest bullpen ever, we absolutely have to do better than calling on Marlon F. Anderson, who I needen't remind no one is already signed for next season. GAWD.

AG/DC Oct 14 2008 12:40 PM

The reason we're discussing Easley in this thread is not because he's better than other options, but because arbitration applies to him and other options don't come inot play until the free agent season opens. Yes, the Mets should pursue improvement on the bench. But comparing how the Mets bench performed to how the opponents bench performs lis a false comparison. One side performed against the entire league, mostly the relievers, and the other performed exclusively against the Mets, mostly against the Mets bullpen

metirish Oct 14 2008 12:41 PM

I thought Anderson was through with the mets , forgot that Minaya picked of the scrap heap during the 07 season and then signed him for two years after that season. If Anderson did anything good last season it was show some leadership with his wins plan.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 14 2008 12:47 PM

Well guess I did need to remind someone. As for Easley, I might offer him a peice of gum or a handshake or something but I sure wouldn't offer him no arbitration.

Vic Sage Oct 15 2008 04:05 PM

i'm with JCL. I'd offer arb to Perez, and that's it. He's the only 1 we'd get compensation for and that i would want back at anywhere near (or above) his current salary. If we can sign Tatis and Ayala to reasonable deals, given their age, injuries, and limited recent history of success, then i'm amenable to their return, but no arbitration. Easley i'm slightly less interested in, but would be willing to have back if he comes to ST and wins a job. but that's it.