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The Times Of London - Worst To best US Presidents
metirish Oct 30 2008 12:01 PM |
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The Times loves lists and their panel of experts rated all US Presidents , plenty of people here know their Presidents so the views should be interesting.
[url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5029204.ece]The 10 worst presidents to have held office [/url] [url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5032040.ece]The Times US presidential rankings - numbers 32 to 22[/url] [url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5038047.ece]The Times US presidential rankings - numbers 21 to 11[/url] The Top Ten Tomorrow
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Willets Point Oct 30 2008 12:05 PM |
James K. Polk always rates surprisingly high in these rankings.
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bmfc1 Oct 30 2008 12:14 PM |
Thanks for posting this.
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sharpie Oct 30 2008 12:15 PM |
Here are the 10 remaining:
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Edgy DC Oct 30 2008 12:20 PM |
Not that I'm arguing, but it's kind of hard to claim historical perspective on GWB at this juncture. A book I read from the eighties left Reagan out.
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metsguyinmichigan Oct 30 2008 12:26 PM |
Interesting. Those kinds of lists are always fun.
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DocTee Oct 30 2008 12:30 PM |
Maybe they should ask, oh I dunno, a political scientist or a historian?
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TransMonk Oct 30 2008 12:35 PM |
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WHAT!! That would be like using tangible stats for things like the HOF and MVP. The press knows everything.
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Edgy DC Oct 30 2008 12:41 PM |
I think we should rank the British monarchs going back to Cymbeline.
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Frayed Knot Oct 30 2008 12:42 PM |
Statements like this are always fun:
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Vic Sage Oct 30 2008 12:45 PM |
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Not that I'm arguing, but you made the opposite point when ranking "best movies".
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Benjamin Grimm Oct 30 2008 12:48 PM |
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I'm not familiar with Cymbeline. Does he come before or after Edward the Confessor? (Guessing before.)
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Willets Point Oct 30 2008 12:54 PM |
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That was me. With or without historical perspective, GW Bush's presidency sucks.
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metsguyinmichigan Oct 30 2008 12:55 PM |
Camilla Cavendish, columnist
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Benjamin Grimm Oct 30 2008 12:55 PM |
Apparently you didn't get the memo: history will vindicate him.
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metsguyinmichigan Oct 30 2008 01:03 PM |
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Truman was treated like a bumpkin clothes seller from the distant sticks with a goofball wife and even stranger daughter, and I bet he falls in somewhere between 5 and 10 in tomorrow's final list. I'm not saying Bush will definitely be treated like Truman, just that it's too early. Eisenhower being so high is a surprise to me. Seems he should be criticized for not doing enough to push for civil rights. Maybe a period of stability after the war years was just good enough. Curious what they say about him.
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Edgy DC Oct 30 2008 01:06 PM |
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Fair enough. I think movies end with curtain though. This presidency hasn't even reached that far, and the policies still play themselves out long after a presidency is over.
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Vic Sage Oct 30 2008 01:08 PM |
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see the movie IDIOCRACY for just such a scenario.
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Valadius Oct 30 2008 01:14 PM |
Grant was ranked WAY too high. I was pleasantly surprised by the rankings of both Adamses, though.
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Vic Sage Oct 30 2008 01:17 PM |
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i agree with you about the presidency, but i disagree with you that evaluating cultural artifacts (like movies) are any more divorced from a consideration of future impact than are presidential policies. If you were to evaluate Blade Runner's "quality" (however one might define that term) the year after it bombed at the b.o. and received an, at best, mixed critical response, you might come to a very different conclusion than if one waited to see that, after its video release, it achieved cult status, and influenced the next generation of not only movie goers but movie makers. I don't want to revisit this debate, but i just wanted to make the point that, IMO, the ramifications of a cultural artifact on the future of a culture cannot be known immediately, any more than the impact of a president's policies can be evaluated immediately.
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metsguyinmichigan Oct 30 2008 01:32 PM |
"If you were to evaluate Blade Runner's "quality" (however one might define that term) the year after it bombed at the b.o. and received an, at best, mixed critical response, you might come to a very different conclusion than if one waited to see that, after its video release, it achieved cult status, and influenced the next generation of not only movie goers but movie makers. "
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Edgy DC Oct 30 2008 01:34 PM |
I understand.
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Frayed Knot Oct 30 2008 01:39 PM |
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I usually see him middle of the pack in political/historian type polls so this one has him only somewhat higher than the norm. It's the strict popular opinion polls where the romanticism kicks in consistantly putting him Top-5 and the ones which break it down by age group show that he's much more popular with those who weren't alive under his presidency than with those who were.
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Edgy DC Oct 30 2008 01:47 PM |
I think some guys gain or lose more points race-related policies than in past polls.
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metirish Oct 30 2008 01:48 PM |
Later I will post the Times Of Damascus list of worst and worser US Presidents.
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metirish Oct 30 2008 01:56 PM |
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Do you all agree with that?
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Valadius Oct 30 2008 02:12 PM |
Yes. Buchanan was probably the worst president.
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Frayed Knot Oct 30 2008 02:17 PM |
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As did Lincoln, except that he went on to use the power of the federal gov't to deny them that right.
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Benjamin Grimm Oct 30 2008 02:29 PM |
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Yeah, that's pretty weak. The only way to have stopped secession would have been war anyway. So you can't blame him for not preventing the Civil War, but for not starting it a little earlier. He couldn't even have negotiated a way to prevent the secession, since it was prompted by Lincoln's election, and all he had was the power of a lame duck.
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Nymr83 Oct 30 2008 03:28 PM |
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A few comments on a thread that got long quickly:
Didn't he, as a general, push for the integration of the Armed Forces? he signed the '57 civil rights act. he supported Brown and in fact ordered the district of columbia schools to integrate. he sent the national guard to force integration in little rock.
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metsguyinmichigan Oct 30 2008 08:40 PM |
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You are correct about Ike. I wasn't giving him enough credit. Nixon, too. His story is a tragedy, because he really did do some good things until he allowed his paranoia to do him. He had no one to blame but himself. What a shame.
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Vic Sage Oct 31 2008 09:59 AM |
Ike also mada a good call on that whole "military-industrial complex", even though he mentioned it on his way OUT, not on his way IN.
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Vic Sage Oct 31 2008 10:03 AM |
and is it significant at all (to anyone other than me) that the answer to the question of life, the universe, and everything, is the same as the answer to the questions of "how many U.S. presidents so far" and "what is the Jackie Robinson statue in the Citifield rotunda going to be"?
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sharpie Oct 31 2008 10:23 AM |
Here's the top 10
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Edgy DC Oct 31 2008 10:31 AM |
Ike, despite the national highway system and the rapid postwar economic expansion he either oversaw or just happened to coincide with, usually gets much iller regard by historians. His ascendency increases my suspicion that their panel puts issues of race on higher peg than other such polls.
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Frayed Knot Oct 31 2008 10:36 AM |
It's always fun to be taken to task by the British on the topic of racial/ethnic insensitivity.
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Vic Sage Oct 31 2008 11:28 AM |
if nothing else, i think they got the top 5 right.
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Willets Point Oct 31 2008 11:30 AM |
Definitely got #1 right.
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metsguyinmichigan Oct 31 2008 11:37 AM |
I'd have swapped the Roosevelts, but that's just me. TR is my hero. FDR's shortcomings tend to be overlooked.
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Nymr83 Oct 31 2008 12:59 PM |
FDR was terrible for us economically, his policies likely prolonged the depression. but he won THE war, and he saw the danger posed by Hitler while the rest of the country was in denial. He flaunted the constitution too, in fact he outright broke the law with lend-lease, but history likes winners.
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Edgy DC Oct 31 2008 01:05 PM |
I've gotten the idea that all administrations, good and bad, are as much an offense to the constitution as they can get away with. It's up to the other branches (particularly the judiciary, or course) to stand up to them, when they are.
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Farmer Ted Oct 31 2008 01:39 PM |
Living in PA, I can't think of one thing named for/in honor of James Buchanan. Andrew Curtin, PA's Civil War Gov, has his named plastered in several places throughout the state.
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Benjamin Grimm Oct 31 2008 01:48 PM |
The high school in Brooklyn where Gabe Kotter taught the Sweathogs was named after President Buchanan.
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Edgy DC Oct 31 2008 01:55 PM |
I've got a statue of Buchanan (or "BVCHANAN," as it's designated) across the street from me. It's like the park of neglected statuary --- Buchanan (with the engraved text reading: "The incorruptible statesman whose walk was upon the mountain ranges of the law", a quote from a member of Buchanan's cabinet, Jeremiah S. Black), ...
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Nymr83 Oct 31 2008 02:20 PM |
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Scheutz has a statue, but is apparently too obscure for wikipedia where ANYTHING can have its own article. I couldn't find anything about him besides a quick blurb on a website about the park where the statue is.
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Vic Sage Nov 03 2008 11:30 AM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Nov 03 2008 02:08 PM |
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Lets just start with Kings & Queens of England since William the Conqueror (1066): The Normans: William I William II Henry I Stephen Matilde The Plantagenets: - Angvian line: Henry II Ricard I John Henry III Edward I Edward II Edward III Richard II - Lancaster line: Henry IV Henry V Henry VI -York line: Edward IV Edward V Richard III Tudors: Henry VII Henry VIII Edward VI Lady Jane Grey Mary I Elizabeth I Stuarts: James I Charles I - [Lord Cromwell] Charles II James II William III & Mary II Anne Hanovers: George I George II George III George IV William IV Victoria Windsors: Edward VII George V Edward VIII George VI Elizabeth II for the completists, here are the Saxon kings of Briton from the pre-Norman period: The Saxon kings: Egbert 827-839 Ethelwulf 839-856 Ethelbald 856-860 Ethelbert 860-865 Ethelred I 865-871 Alfred the Great 871–899 Edward the Elder 899-924 Ælfweard 924 Athelstan 924-939 Edmund I 939–946 Edred 946–955 Edwy the Fair 955–959 Edgar the Peaceful 959–975 Edward the Martyr 975–978 Ethelred II the Redeless 978–1016 Edmund II Ironside 1016 Edward the Confessor 1042-1066
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G-Fafif Nov 03 2008 11:37 AM |
Plus the Royals haven't won anything since 1985.
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Willets Point Nov 03 2008 12:08 PM |
William & Mary #1!!!
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HahnSolo Nov 03 2008 01:12 PM |
We could rank prime ministers, but that sometimes leads to problems for us Americans.
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Willets Point Nov 03 2008 01:23 PM |
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Robert Peel was a bastard.
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Vic Sage Nov 03 2008 02:06 PM |
Edward II was played by 1 actor in 2 different movies.
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Willets Point Nov 03 2008 02:20 PM |
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I don't know, but I do know that Peter O'Toole played Henry II in both Becket and The Lion in Winter
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Vic Sage Nov 04 2008 09:39 AM |
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DOH! Yes, i meant Henry II. And those are the correct answeres.
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Willets Point Nov 04 2008 09:42 AM |
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Oh yay! I got the correct answer to the wrong question. Being a Peter O'Toole fan pays off.
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Vic Sage Nov 04 2008 09:47 AM |
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always. well, other than CALIGULA.
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