|
="Centerfield":34sf7zpi]Finding a way to trade Delgado for a usable part, unloading Brian Schneider, then using that money to pick up Mark Texiera is asking too much of him.[/quote:34sf7zpi]And if Texiera decides to go elsewhere, where does that leave us? If you want to trade Delgado, you'd be an idiot not to have someone in place who's clearly better.
I love it that all the people who were wrong about Delgado last year think they're absolutely right about him this year (for the record, I said early on that I didn't think Delgado was through, because his record in 2007 showed he still could hit; alas, sabrheads don't pay attention to the statistics they profess to worship).
In any case, trading Delgado without Texiera's name on a contract is an idiot's move. While there may be questions about Carlos, no one in the Mets organization could be expected to do better.
|
Gwreck
Dec 08 2008 02:00 PM
|
|
Might be tough to deal with Minnesota for a little while.
|
TransMonk
Dec 08 2008 02:01 PM
|
|
Wish we could get in on that Dye action.
|
John Cougar Lunchbucket
Dec 08 2008 02:10 PM
|
|
I'm pretty sure the sabrheads understood Delgado's return toward career norms better than many fans. It also doesn't take a degree from Bill James University to understand that Texiera is a better player now and and that improving the O through first base is an attractive option if you could do it. And you don;t trade anyone without a Plan B.
|
Centerfield
Dec 08 2008 02:19 PM
Re: I'm getting the feeling he's not bluffing
|
|
="RealityChuck":2p7tsblc]="Centerfield":2p7tsblc]Finding a way to trade Delgado for a usable part, unloading Brian Schneider, then using that money to pick up Mark Texiera is asking too much of him.[/quote:2p7tsblc]And if Texiera decides to go elsewhere, where does that leave us? If you want to trade Delgado, you'd be an idiot not to have someone in place who's clearly better.
I love it that all the people who were wrong about Delgado last year think they're absolutely right about him this year (for the record, I said early on that I didn't think Delgado was through, because his record in 2007 showed he still could hit; alas, sabrheads don't pay attention to the statistics they profess to worship).
In any case, trading Delgado without Texiera's name on a contract is an idiot's move. While there may be questions about Carlos, no one in the Mets organization could be expected to do better.[/quote:2p7tsblc]
The Winter Meetings are a great venue to do simultaneous trades/signings. If need be, scope out the interest for Delgado first, get some trades out there in the hypothetical. Once Texiera signs, pull the trigger. If you can't pull the trigger right away, sign Texiera and carry Delgado until someone in the AL loses their power hitter to a hammy injury. Worst case scenario, eat some contract and trade him to one of those teams that lose out on Texiera.
I never claimed to be absolutely right about Delgado, this year or last. My point is that there is a way, with similar money, to get a guy who you can reasonably expect to improve your offense for the upcoming year and beyond. I'm saying that given the choice, you'd be a fool to take Delgado and Schneider over Texiera. I'm looking for the above-average GM that can figure out a way to make those changes.
I'm not sure why you bring up the SABR guys. It has nothing to do with my post.
Good for you (and I mean that, not trying to be snide) if you thought Delgado had more in the tank. I certainly didn't, and it didn't look like he did for the longest time. All I'm saying is that being that bad for that long a time makes me believe that there is a strong possibility that the bad Delgado could return. And I want to avoid having to rely on someone like that.
|
smg58
Dec 08 2008 02:46 PM
|
|
We scored just as many runs as the Phillies did last year, despite the ballpark differences. Our offense didn't beat us, pitching did. We could even afford a slightly worse offense than we had last year, if we make good decisions on the pitching front.
The one thing all the available outfielders have in common (Manny, Dunn, Ibanez, Dye, Young) is that they suck defensively. If the Fielding Bible is a reliable measure of defensive worth, our current outfield defense is better than people realize in left, and outstanding in center and right. The only one of those guys I'd consider still a significant upgrade when defense is factored in is Manny. Do we have question marks at the corners and first base? Yes, but there's more unambiguous room for improvement at other positions and the bullpen, a big vacancy in at least one starting rotation spot, and a finite amount of resources.
It may be hard to move Castillo, but given his (and Easley's) offensive and defensive output last year, it shouldn't require much of an expense at all to produce a clear improvement at second base.
Catcher is trickier. Laird's numbers have been up and down, and were likely enhanced by the ballpark in Texas, so it's not clear that he would have been an improvement over Schneider. The Indians have a glut of catchers both at the top level and in their system, but I'm not sure what we have that they'd want. (They've been looking mainly for relievers.) Plus we'd need to find a taker for Schneider.
|
attgig
Dec 08 2008 02:47 PM
|
|
he's working too hard to drive the prices on closers down, that if he goes and signs big money on texiera, it'll piss off all the closers, and it'll screw up all that negotiating. I think things will happen once we get the closer situation settled.
Delgado could be traded, but who would want an aging 1b due 12 mil, who's a question mark? how much salary would we have to eat? what would we seriously get in return?
I don't think we need to or should think about moving Delgado, unless everyone in the mets front office has a serious hardon for Tex. If he's not #1 priority, trading delgado will get us so little/nothing that it won't be worth it.
of course, there is the question of who's gonna be 1bman in 2010....would carp be ready/be able to hold his own?
|
attgig
Dec 08 2008 02:53 PM
|
|
="smg58":24up5h6j]The one thing all the available outfielders have in common (Manny, Dunn, Ibanez, Dye, Young) is that they suck defensively. If the Fielding Bible is a reliable measure of defensive worth, our current outfield defense is better than people realize in left, and outstanding in center and right. [/quote:24up5h6j]
is delmon young really that bad in the OF? i know the other guys are, but I thought Delmon was a 5 tool guy. his character would worry me, especially coming to NY, and he's still such a kid. that's the biggest reason why I would say no to him.
Oddly enough, I think Milton Bradley should be looked at. he gets a bad rap, but from reading/interviews this past season, it sounded like the clubhouse loved him, and the media just presses his buttons in a way that gives this incredibly negative portrayal of him. + he's older, and it seems like he's getting a bit wiser (heard nothing bad about him this past year). give him a one year + options, and I would love to see what he could do in LF at citi.
|
Frayed Knot
Dec 08 2008 03:09 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 09 2008 06:24 AM
|
|
| ]Do we just not have the prospects to get it [a deal for Delmon Young] done? |
Well, if you're working on the notion that he's a stud OFer to be than they'll need something back on a similar level. Not sure who that would be. F. Martinez hopes to be Delmon Young but is 4 years behind in development so it'll be him plus probably a pitching prospect. Are you willing to go Fartinez & Niese?
| ]Is there something terrible that I don't know about young Mr. Young? |
There's the lunkhead issue: ie. the bat-throwing deal that cost him a half-season of minor league ball and valuable developmental time.
Other than that the knocks are that he really hasn't developed as predicted back when he was made the #1 overall pick in the nation.
He doesn't walk very often [walk rate ~ .030-.040] and the power hasn't really shown up yet either [IsoP ~ .110] - both well below average particularly for a corner OF.
Right now he's sort of Lastings Milledge with a better BA but fewer walks and slightly less power.
On the other hand he's still only 23 y/o so there's certainly still time.
But, if he really is on the market, it might say something that two orgs have had their fill of him by such a young age.
|
Edgy DC
Dec 08 2008 04:35 PM
|
|
If what we're complaining about here is that the Mets aren't leaking their plans, I'm OK with that.
|
*62
Dec 08 2008 06:43 PM
|
|
Can someone point me towards the final tally for Schaefer P.O.Y.?
Can't seem to find it.
|
Frayed Knot
Dec 08 2008 06:52 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
