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="metsguyinmichigan":1uxh9oid]You think Sheets would be a fifth starter? Didn't he start the All-Star Game? Or did you mean we'd have five starters, and he'd be one of them?[/quote:1uxh9oid]
we'd have five starters, and he'd be one of them.
adding him to the presumed one of lowrezlf would bump the guy currently slated for the bottom of our rotation out of the 5th spot, and instead of trying to figure out where lowezlf fits into the current pantheon, and furthermore, where sheets would fit into that amalgam, i merely substituted fifth guy named for fifth guy named.
it also highlights how much nice it would be to have him, instead of young mr. niese.
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Frayed Knot
Jan 05 2009 12:55 PM
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="attgig":5u43a8xd]what would it take to sign sheets? ... If they can do 2 years at 12 per, and a vesting option for 3rd based on innings.... i think i'd go for it. get insurance for the 2 years to offset costs in case he gets hurt.[/quote:5u43a8xd]
I don't think you'd want to go higher than 2 guaranteed.
2+ an option is a possible strategy.
As far as insurance, the problem is that it might cost you almost as much money as the contract is worth ... and that's assuming anyone is willing to sell it to you.
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Centerfield
Jan 05 2009 01:41 PM
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If we don't do it, we should at least start some rumors to light a fire under Derek Lowe's ass.
I heard the Mets offered Sheets 2 years, $24 million.
Ok Steve, go quote me on other boards.
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Ashie62
Jan 05 2009 02:41 PM
Re: Ben Sheets
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="Centerfield":z7b9sd1t]Why not?
Is it any more risky than a 4 year deal to a 36 year-old who has been good, but never great?[/quote:z7b9sd1t]
I prefer Lowe..he has been an innings eater with a low comp..Last 2 years with 147 K's each and 47 & 55 BB'ish. That ain't bad. Nice to see a pitcher that consistently throws strikes.
I'll take Sheets over Oliver Perez on more plus stuff and a tiredness of living on the Edge with Oliver.
And God please..no Randy Wolf...The second coming of Shawn Estes
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Fman99
Jan 06 2009 08:43 PM
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="Centerfield":2ldc2kiv]If we don't do it, we should at least start some rumors to light a fire under Derek Lowe's ass.
I heard the Mets offered Sheets 2 years, $24 million.
Ok Steve, go quote me on other boards.[/quote:2ldc2kiv]
Oh, so this is where you heard it. Fuck. I need to read more threads.
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SteveJRogers
Jan 06 2009 09:39 PM
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| ="Centerfield"]If we don't do it, we should at least start some rumors to light a fire under Derek Lowe's ass.
I heard the Mets offered Sheets 2 years, $24 million.
Ok Steve, go quote me on other boards. |
Only if it came from FK.
Cause then it would be from Left Field!
Yeah, I'll supply my own crickets
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Centerfield
Jan 13 2009 09:53 AM
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So back to Sheets. I wish we could find out why teams are so hesitant to go down this road.
I mean, it's one thing if the guy is an injury risk. It's another if the guy is injured.
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A Boy Named Seo
Jan 13 2009 11:21 AM
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="Centerfield":2li7lw9t]
I mean, it's one thing if the guy is an injury risk. It's another if the guy is injured.[/quote:2li7lw9t]
I think peeps don't really know. Last anyone saw of him, he was walking off a mound in September with a hurt arm.
If we wrangle Ollie back, and even with Redding in the fold (he could slide to the pen), I'd throw like a 1 year/$5 guaranteed deal Sheets' way like $8 million bucks worth of bonus carrots attached, including a vesting 2nd year if his arm doesn't explode and he pitches like 185 innings or something.
Eh?
When he's on a mound, he's pretty awesome.
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smg58
Jan 13 2009 11:36 AM
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I think it's worth pointing out that Sheets threw 198 IP last year while Perez threw 194. Plus, signing Perez would keep us from getting back our first round pick in addition to another sandwich pick.
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Centerfield
Jan 13 2009 12:23 PM
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Isn't a player's current injury something you could check? Isn't that why you get medicals and ask your doctors to check him out?
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MFS62
Jan 13 2009 12:28 PM
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IIRC, Sheets' late season injury was "stiffness in the forearm".
I'm not sure how the cause of that can be diagnosed.
Later
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Frayed Knot
Jan 13 2009 12:53 PM
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Might be instructive to note that the hardly-hard-up-for-bucks BoSox opted for fliers on Smoltz (who may not even be ready when the season starts) and Penny (also coming off an injury) while not even offering a sniff in the direction of Sheets.
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MFS62
Jan 13 2009 01:36 PM
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I'd scan Sheets' arm with every test known to mankind until it glows in the dark.
And if nothing bad shows up, sign him.
Later
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Number 6
Jan 13 2009 01:36 PM
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I've always thought the Brewers rode Sheets a bit too hard. He was second in the league with 5 complete games last season, and threw over 100 pitches in more than half of his starts. While that may not be troubling for an average pitcher, he probably shouldn't be treated like one given his injury history. I'm no medical expert, but it may be possible for his new team to get more out of him by instituting a more rigid pitch/inning limit.
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mario25
Jan 13 2009 02:07 PM
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I say at least bring him in and check it out. Omar is in love with Perez but he is all arm/no head.
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attgig
Jan 13 2009 02:38 PM
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I want sheets.
I just have no clue what it would take to sign him.
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metirish
Jan 13 2009 02:40 PM
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From the Boston Globe yesterday...
Ben Sheets, free agent pitcher: We're hearing more and more that a team like the Braves or Rangers could pony up a couple of years on a contract that would land the oft-injured righthander. At this stage of free agency, he seems like big-time quality for a price that has surely come down. "I think as the weeks go on, more and more teams are going to take a good, hard look at him," said a National League manager. "Given his history, he's just not going to get a big deal, and the realization might be sinking in that he and his agents know it.
Things changed today I would think with the Braves.
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Centerfield
Jan 16 2009 07:34 PM
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We have a Ben Sheets sighting:
Martinez also remains on the Mets' radar, as does free-agent righty Ben Sheets, pending a review of his medical records.
This according to Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports.
Go get Sheets!
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Frayed Knot
Jan 17 2009 08:02 AM
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| ]I prefer Lowe..he has been an innings eater with a low comp..Last 2 years with 147 K's each and 47 & 55 BB'ish. That ain't bad. Nice to see a pitcher that consistently throws strikes. |
If it's strike throwing you want Sheets is among the best bets around:
a 380/95 (K/BB) ratio over the last 3 seasons.
As far as a contract, it seems to me that certain players should look around at the current economic situation and think that a short-term deal might be in their interest too. Especially reasonably young guys (31 next July) like Sheets coming off injuries. Take a 2-yr deal (or maybe even one) to prove you're healthy and have the chance to go back on the market when conditions (at least theoretically) are more player friendly. At this point I'm not sure holding out for a 3rd or 4th year is really in his interest.
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MFS62
Jan 17 2009 10:49 AM
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Someone told me that they had heard a few days ago that the Mets offered Sheets a 1 year $6 million guaranteed contract. He had no other details about incentives, options, etc.
Anyone else hear that? If so, what was the source?
Later
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Benjamin Grimm
Jan 17 2009 06:56 PM
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| ="David Lennon in Newsday":24839p42]For his part, Minaya has played it cool, suggesting that he has other options if Perez falls through. Two of the most intriguing names still available are Ben Sheets and Andy Pettitte, with the Mets only recently showing interest in the former Brewers ace. A person familiar with the situation said yesterday that Sheets is now being discussed, but it's unclear what the parameters of such a deal would be.[/quote:24839p42]
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Edgy DC
Jan 17 2009 07:33 PM
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I think he probably has a few fingers in the trade market.
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Fman99
Jan 18 2009 02:10 PM
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This rumor is picking up steam. [url=http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090118&content_id=3748835&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym&partnerId=rss_nym:las1k666]MLB.com[/url:las1k666] now quoting Newsday's story. I like.
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Frayed Knot
Jan 18 2009 06:30 PM
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Of course that doesn't mean the talks are picking up, only that news outlets are citing each other as sources.
Meanwhile, Pedro seems to be talking to Pittsburgh.
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Kong76
Jan 18 2009 06:40 PM
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The thought of Pedro riding into the sunset in Pittsburgh makes me laugh
out loud. Not lol, laugh out loud.
Retire, or sign with the Mets or Sawx in some kind of limited role.
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metsguyinmichigan
Jan 18 2009 11:16 PM
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Is this Sheet AND Ollie or Sheets OR Ollie?
Assuming we're going after Ollie, too.
If we were relying on Sheets to be "the man," I'd be against it. But basically we're filling out our rotation, with a number of other options.
Johan, Pelfrey, Sheets, Ollie and Maine with Redding and Neise in the wings is a pretty damn good rotation.
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MFS62
Jan 19 2009 04:46 AM
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="Kong76":23f3gaue]The thought of Pedro riding into the sunset in Pittsburgh makes me laugh
out loud. Not lol, laugh out loud.
[/quote:23f3gaue]
A great player ending his career in Pitsburgh isn't that bad. He'd be in pretty good company with Hank Greenberg.
Later
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Frayed Knot
Jan 19 2009 06:15 AM
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="metsguyinmichigan":va8fttx0]Is this Sheet AND Ollie or Sheets OR Ollie?[/quote:va8fttx0]
I suspect one or the other but not both.
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Rockin' Doc
Jan 19 2009 06:43 AM
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From what I have read in most reports, Perez is the Mets first choice now that Lowe is in Atlanta. Sheets, Wolf, Garland, etc. are potential back up plans should Perez (and Boras) play hard to get.
Personally, I think I would prefer to have Sheets. Perez has a tremendous arm and great stuff, but he often leaves me wondering where his head is at.
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Benjamin Grimm
Jan 19 2009 06:51 AM
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I too would prefer Sheets.
Even if he misses time with an injury, we'll probably get as many good starts from Sheets as from Perez, and fewer bad starts.
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Vince Coleman Firecracker
Jan 19 2009 10:06 AM
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I would rather 150 innings of Sheets and 50 of Niese than 200 of Perez, and 100/100 of those two might still be more useful than a full season of Ollie.
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Centerfield
Jan 20 2009 08:18 AM
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Lots more sources picking up on the Mets interest in Sheets. Tom Verducci was talking about it on the MLB Network, there's a piece in the Daily News this morning.
The more I think about it, they really have to pull the trigger on Sheets. It is the only way they can significantly improve the rotation from last year. And they need to improve the pitching if they're not going to do anything about the lineup.
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TransMonk
Jan 20 2009 09:18 AM
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I'm not a big fan of Sheets...his upsides and downsides are terribly drastic. That being said, he probably has the best potential upside available for next season.
His eldest son is named after Tom Seaver. That's gotta be worth something I guess.
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DocTee
Jan 24 2009 09:57 AM
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According to Buster Olney, Texas mulling a two-year, $16M offer to Ben.
http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/story/1162289.html
That's a steal, considering:
"Over the last five seasons, the 30-year-old Sheets has an ERA of 3.24; his ERA has never been higher than 3.82 in any season, and was as low as 2.70 in 2004. His strikeout-to-walk ratio has never been worse than 2.87 to 1. Hitters have never had an OPS against him, in any season, higher than .705.
In 2008, Sheets made 31 starts, threw 198 1/3 innings, posted an ERA of 3.09 while pitching in Milwaukee's bandbox, held opposing hitters to a .390 slugging percentage, started for the National League in the All-Star Game, struck out 158 while walking just 47..."
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metsmarathon
Jan 24 2009 10:32 AM
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grr...
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Frayed Knot
Jan 24 2009 11:14 AM
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Sheets lives in Texas which may give them the inside track there.
Be nice if Omar were to match that offer and convince Big Ben that staying in the NL and staying out of that hitters' haven with the daily 90+ degree heat will be better for him in the long run.
Then tell Boras that he can review that offer plus this newest one we supposedly made to Ollie and tell him first one to say yes gets the job.
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Nymr83
Jan 24 2009 12:16 PM
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| ]According to Buster Olney, Texas mulling a two-year, $16M offer to Ben |
sounds cheap, offer him a 3rd year at the same price Omar!
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metsmarathon
Jan 24 2009 12:57 PM
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uh, i'd go 2x9 before i went 3x8. but i'd be happy to include a vesting option for the third.
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Rockin' Doc
Jan 24 2009 01:33 PM
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I like marathon's plan. Sheets has tremendous talent, but given his injury history I don't want to see the Mets guarantee more than two years to him.
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Centerfield
Jan 24 2009 08:25 PM
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Come on Omar. At least make a fucking offer.
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Fman99
Jan 24 2009 08:39 PM
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="Centerfield":3glgv0y9]Come on Omar. At least make a fucking offer.[/quote:3glgv0y9]
Do something. Jeez, pitchers and catchers report in what, 3 weeks?
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metirish
Jan 24 2009 08:44 PM
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Watch the MFY's come in a sign him.
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Frayed Knot
Jan 25 2009 06:34 PM
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Just a few warning signs via the [url=http://www.star-telegram.com/284/story/1163351.html]Ft Worth Star-Telegram[/url]:
Lingering concerns over the status of Ben Sheets’ right elbow could ultimately prevent the Texas Rangers from signing the free-agent All-Star pitcher to an incentive-laden contract.
The Rangers have examined Sheets’ medical reports, but sources said the club wants the most recent information on his torn flexor tendon.
It’s an injury the Rangers know too well. Jason Jennings lasted only six starts last season before suffering a second torn flexor tendon in nine months. In both instances — August 2007 and May 2008 — Jennings had surgery.
Sheets’ tear did not require surgery, and he has resumed his normal preseason throwing program. He threw twice last week at Rangers Ballpark in Arlington.
However, the Highland Park resident has not undergone a physical and would have to pass one performed by Rangers doctors before a deal could be completed.
The likelihood that an agreement will be reached by Monday, if at all this week, is waning.
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Centerfield
Jan 26 2009 10:16 AM
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Is a torn flexor tendon what knocked out Wagner?
The article doesn't make it clear whether the Rangers are concerned because he had a torn flexor tendon, or whether they feel he still has a torn flexor tendon.
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Edgy DC
Jan 26 2009 10:26 AM
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I'm a fan of Ben Sheets and want the Mets in the mix, but I think the fans are being too hard here on poor ol' Omar.
1) Yeah, Sheets numbers from last year make him look pretty healthy, but that's because his injury took place at the end of the season, after he logged those numbers, but it shut him down for the playoffs. And the nature of an injury at the end of your season and your contract means that nobody knows the extent of the damage or what they're getting until you take the mound somewhere and log some time.
2) Isn't Omar getting somewhat hammered for the lost gamble he took on Moises Alou? If you pressure your GM to roll the dice, be a little more forgiving when he craps out once in a while.
A Texas Ranger blogger takes a close look at this injury history here: http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archi ... -file.html
Maybe Sheets and Nolan can talk blister cures.
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batmagadanleadoff
Jan 26 2009 10:53 AM
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="Centerfield":11j9ihkf]Is a torn flexor tendon what knocked out Wagner?
The article doesn't make it clear whether the Rangers are concerned because he had a torn flexor tendon, or whether they feel he still has a torn flexor tendon.[/quote:11j9ihkf]
Flexor Shmexor. I'm worried that Johan Santana might've sustained some permanent and irreversible diminishment of his abilities as a result of the surgery to repair his torn left meniscus.
I realize that his injury is considered minor but still, it's Johan's rear pitching leg.
On the other hand, no one else seems to be making a big deal about the surgery. And Santana did pitch his best game of last season while injured. So maybe there's not much to this.
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Frayed Knot
Jan 26 2009 10:58 AM
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="Centerfield":11erg5gp]Is a torn flexor tendon what knocked out Wagner?
The article doesn't make it clear whether the Rangers are concerned because he had a torn flexor tendon, or whether they feel he still has a torn flexor tendon.[/quote:11erg5gp]
Wagner's was a ligament tear. That's what TJ surgery is needed to fix.
Sheets' flexor tendon tear did not have surgery - probably meaning it isn't thought to be severe enough and he can still pitch with it while it heals or remains strong enough on its own.
Maybe it can but that's a risk whoever signs him is going to need to consider.
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Edgy DC
Jan 26 2009 11:17 AM
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He may want to pull an Astacio and do some showcase pitching in the Caribbean.
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smg58
Feb 05 2009 11:56 AM
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[url:2ctckaya]http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090205&content_id=3801488&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp[/url:2ctckaya]
The poor guy just can't buy a break.
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Nymr83
Feb 05 2009 12:47 PM
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sounds like a good time to sign him for cheap and hope he can help out in the second half or even for 2010
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seawolf17
Feb 05 2009 01:36 PM
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="Nymr83":3bzpskk2]sounds like a good time to sign him for cheap and hope he can help out in the second half or even for 2010[/quote:3bzpskk2]
Bingo! Two-year, backloaded deal. Didn't the Yankees do that with Jon Lieber?
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Frayed Knot
Feb 05 2009 02:38 PM
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Re: Leiber; yes, but I think it was post-surgery and not pre. Plus you don't want to do this at a time when it'll cost you a draft pick.
So maybe after the cut-n-slice sounds like it worked and after the draft is done in June and you're off the hook for compensation it may be time to look into a rehab signing.
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Nymr83
Feb 05 2009 02:40 PM
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its strange that Sheets, if he knew he might need surgery, didn't accept arbitration from the Brewers.
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attgig
Feb 05 2009 03:03 PM
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perhaps he had differing opinion vs the rangers doctors. him/his doctors didn't think he needed surgery, but the rangers docs did. and once ONE team's docs blackball you, it's gonna be impossible to get anything from any other team.
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Ashie62
Feb 05 2009 03:50 PM
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Sheets out 4-6 months for partially torn flexor tendon
That answers that
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DocTee
Feb 05 2009 04:20 PM
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Tough break.
You know who I'd like to see the Mets take a flyer on: Mark Mulder.
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Centerfield
Feb 06 2009 08:00 AM
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="Ashie62":k5uv0414]Sheets out 4-6 months for partially torn flexor tendon
That answers that[/quote:k5uv0414]
That makes no sense. If that was the prognosis, why not have the surgery back in October?
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Feb 06 2009 08:28 AM
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="Centerfield":125azak8]="Ashie62":125azak8]Sheets out 4-6 months for partially torn flexor tendon
That answers that[/quote:125azak8]
That makes no sense. If that was the prognosis, why not have the surgery back in October?[/quote:125azak8]
Apparently the injury was revealed as part of a physical examination the Rangers required as a condition of a 2-year contract offer, now revoked.
There is a question as to whether the Brewers will pay the doctor bills, paper sez.
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Nymr83
Feb 06 2009 08:38 AM
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thats going to be a question for the collective bargaining agreement, his last contract, and/or worker's comp laws.
this is probably a good opportunity for the brewers to sign him for 2 years backloaded for cheap, maybe with a semi-expensive option for 2011 that kicks in with 200 innings in 2010. they'll probably be paying for his rehab anyway so they might as well be able to direct it and benefit from it
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