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="Edgy DC":2edbfdqu]I see Juan Cruz out there, baby. He's had an on-again-off-again career, but he's been really on the last two years with Arizona, with strikeout numbers off the charts, whiffing 12.8 and 12.4 guys per nine innings, respectively.
He's a type A, but, hey, we already lost our first rounder.
Twelve months ago, he'd get a three- or four-year deal after two years like that. This year, he's unemployed in mid-February.
There's not a lot of room in the Mets' pen, but neither do I see Feliciano/Green/Muniz/Putz/Rodriguez/Sanchez/Stokes all entitled to automatic jobs. Not at all.
<img src="http://nbcsportsmedia4.msnbc.com/i/NBCSports/Sections/Personal/Chiappetta,%20Mike/MLB/FreeAgentRelievers/JuanCruz.jpg" width="400">
Who do you see out there?[/quote:2edbfdqu]
TSN had chatter that they think now he may go back to Arizona. Certainly that type A status is costing him. Odd that others, like Hoffman, were type B guys where Pena was not.
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Centerfield
Feb 11 2009 10:38 AM
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Manny
Adam Dunn
Orlando Hudson
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Vic Sage
Feb 11 2009 10:57 AM
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The Mets are more than $20m under the luxury tax threshhold. Sign Dunn and Hudson, then pay someone to take Castillo off our hands.
or better yet, offer Manny $20m/1year, with a $5m buyout of two additional $25m option years. We'd still be under the "cap" and with new sold-out stadium and a cable network, and the additional merch revenue Manny brings, and the additional revs from post-season, it would be a great investment.
But of course guys who invested with Madoff wouldn't know a great investment if it were sukking their collective cox.
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Edgy DC
Feb 11 2009 11:06 AM
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Well, as we have threads (and threads) about those guys, I was kind of looking for guys that come up on a finer tuned radar scan.
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smg58
Feb 11 2009 11:22 AM
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Will Ohman and Joe Beimel would be upgrades at the position vacated by Schoeneweis. I don't really like the idea of Casey Fossum or Tom Martin facing Utley, Howard, and Ibanez while trying to hold a one-run lead.
I don't think the Type A label would have hurt Cruz that much if he had pitched more than 51 innings last year. He strained his oblique and lost a month even though the D-Backs were only using him for 10 innings a month. An elite set-up guy should give you 70 IP, and Cruz can't.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Feb 11 2009 11:30 AM
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Beimel's a type A too, no?
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metirish
Feb 11 2009 11:35 AM
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Type B from what I am seeing.
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Fman99
Feb 11 2009 12:20 PM
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As far as I know Cruz is the only type A reliever out there at this point.
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Edgy DC
Feb 11 2009 12:29 PM
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He's a workaholic --- impatient, excessively time-conscious, insecure about his status, highly competitive, hostile and aggressive, and incapable of relaxation?
I dunno, sounds like a lot of relievers.
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MFS62
Feb 11 2009 12:42 PM
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="Edgy DC":3uf4clc9]He's a workaholic --- impatient, excessively time-conscious, insecure about his status, highly competitive, hostile and aggressive, and incapable of relaxation?
I dunno, sounds like a lot of relievers.[/quote:3uf4clc9]
Remember what those guys were like before they started testing for Amphetamines?
Worse.
The Dibble, Myers and Charlton bunch in Cincy come to mind.
Later
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Frayed Knot
Feb 11 2009 01:05 PM
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The problem with Cruz is that you're giving up a draft pick (yes, a 2nd rounder not a 1st, but still) for a guy to slot in as your 3rd line reliever for one year.
Or ... do we really want to be giving out multi-year deals for an up-again/down-again reliever while Putz is still under control for another year and F. Rodriguez for another two?
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Fman99
Feb 11 2009 01:22 PM
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ESPN now saying that Dunn is getting closer to a deal with the Nationals.
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Edgy DC
Feb 11 2009 01:22 PM
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All I sez is he's still out there. Obviously, his Type A-ness (he said anus) is a big problem, which restricts his unrestricted free agency.
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attgig
Feb 11 2009 01:40 PM
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dunn with nats is supposedly done. I wonder if they'd get rid of one of their RH bats in a small trade so that we can have more RH's off our bench. Dmitri was great a couple years ago but his weight scares me.
and I don't get Jim Bowden at all. I don't think he knows how to put a team together. he's putting a team together like he has room for a DH.
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MFS62
Feb 11 2009 01:56 PM
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What's the over and under number for the number of NY area papers that will report this as a "Dunn deal"?
Later
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smg58
Feb 11 2009 02:10 PM
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Dunn gets two years and $20M -- considering what Abreu got, he can't complain. If Nick Johnson or Dmitri Young is healthy he'd presumably play left, which makes me wonder what they'll do with Willingham/Dukes/Milledge/Kearns/Pena. They'd almost have to move one of them, if not two.
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Frayed Knot
Feb 11 2009 02:18 PM
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Don't know what's happened to Kearns - and specifically his power.
He and Dunn were the 1st & 2nd round draft picks in the same year by Cincy (Kearns = 1st, Dunn = 2nd) back when Bowden was the GM there.
Dunn of course had the better power but Kearns was considered to be the better all-around player: better BA, better glove, etc.
Now Bowden's got them back together but, yeesh, Kearns has gone downhill in recent years and Dunn probably more one-dimensional than ever feared.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Feb 11 2009 02:25 PM
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Um... weren't Kearns and Dunn two of the guys ever-priced-to-move when Bowden was running the Reds' shop?
And as for OUR bench options... do Nomar and Alou seem like workable names as part-time players, once Marlon Anderson is finally deemed droppable? (At midseason, perhaps-- Senor PeeHands would make a smashing bench ornament, no?)
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Centerfield
Feb 13 2009 10:38 AM
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I wouldn't mind bringing him back in that capacity. Of course, if he does well, we might be tempted to let him play more, in which case, he'd hurt himself and be useless again.
Manny still out there. Orlando Hudson too.
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duan
Feb 13 2009 11:14 AM
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i actually came here proposing a taking the salary off washington's hands move on Austin Kearns.
Last year was his first actual bad year, but he carries a bit of a whiff of unfulfilled potential that has probably turned people off. I'd love to take a whirl on him being our lefty mashing outfielder to replace Church/Murphy or even Delgado.
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Vic Sage
Feb 13 2009 11:24 AM
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| ]Dunn probably more one-dimensional than ever feared. |
OB% = .381
SLG% = .518
looks pretty 2-dimensional to me...
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Vic Sage
Feb 13 2009 11:52 AM
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[u:1dsvs0fu]Big FAs to sign:[/u:1dsvs0fu]
Manny Ramirez, LF - rh (36) - type (A)
Orlando Hudson, 2B -rh (31) - type (A)
[u:1dsvs0fu]situational lefties:[/u:1dsvs0fu]
Joe Beimel, RP (31) -type (B)
Dennys Reyes, RP (31) -type (B)
Will Ohman, RP (31)
[u:1dsvs0fu]rh bat[/u:1dsvs0fu]
Emil Brown, LF (34)
Nomar Garciaparra, SS (35)
Jay Payton, LF (36)
[u:1dsvs0fu]fifth starter[/u:1dsvs0fu]
Mark Mulder, SP -lh (31) - worth a minor league look
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metirish
Feb 13 2009 11:55 AM
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I read in the last few days that Ohman was offered a deal from the Mets and from the Phillies....what's going on there?
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duan
Feb 13 2009 11:56 AM
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="duan":cxtxds99]i actually came here proposing a taking the salary off washington's hands move on Austin Kearns.
Last year was his first actual bad year, but he carries a bit of a whiff of unfulfilled potential that has probably turned people off. I'd love to take a whirl on him being our lefty mashing outfielder to replace Church/Murphy or even Delgado.[/quote:cxtxds99]
to explain, I mean that he's traditionally murdered lefties whereas they don't and that having him in the mix would give us a great threat.
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Frayed Knot
Feb 13 2009 12:04 PM
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="Vic Sage"]| ]Dunn probably more one-dimensional than ever feared. |
OB% = .381
SLG% = .518
looks pretty 2-dimensional to me... |
What I meant was that back when they were young pups Kearns was considered the better all around player/athlete while Dunn the better hitter but only a hitter. Now years later hiding his glove is becoming more of a problem than even previously imagined and I think part of the reason the offers were slow in coming.
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smg58
Feb 13 2009 12:47 PM
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Jay's 36? That's scary.
I have to think that guys like Beimel and Ohman will take any major-league offer that comes their way at this point. I can't imagine Hudson will be too stubborn if presented with even a modestly decent offer, either. If we had $36M to throw at Ollie, I can't imagine we're too broke to even look at these other guys.
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smg58
Feb 13 2009 12:55 PM
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="Frayed Knot":3973hsgs]What I meant was that back when they were young pups Kearns was considered the better all around player/athlete while Dunn the better hitter but only a hitter. Now years later hiding his glove is becoming more of a problem than even previously imagined and I think part of the reason the offers were slow in coming.[/quote:3973hsgs]
I don't think his glove has necessarily gotten worse, so much as defensive value (or the lack thereof) has become better quantified. If the defensive numbers generated in places like the Fielding Bible are credible, then the old notion that you could stick a good bat/bad glove player in an outfield corner or first base and not have to worry about his glove hurting you that much has been discredited to at least some degree with particularly bad fielders. This applies to a number of players (like Dunn and Abreu) who were free agents this year.
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Frayed Knot
Feb 13 2009 01:47 PM
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Yeah that's probably part of it. Plus there were several sources this winter saying that GMs are taking an increasingly close look at OF defense in particular and factoring that in to how much they would otherwise pay for bat-only FAs - something they could have affected the likes of not only Dunn but Abreu, Manny, Burrell, too.
As for Dunn himself, he may not have gotten worse with the glove as much as the early hope that he'd at least grow into a mediocre glove at some position never materialized. Both defensive metrics and eye-ball observers rate him as a virtual train-wreck wherever you plop him.
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Edgy DC
Feb 13 2009 01:52 PM
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The thing about the previous generation of defensive metrics is that they seemed to undervalue outfield defense by measuring balls caught against balls fielded by the same standard as those for infielders. What they missed was that a failure to field a ball by an infielder typically resulted in a single base, while a failure to field a ball by an outfielder resulted in two or three.
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cooby
Feb 13 2009 05:43 PM
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Lady Caca?
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Feb 13 2009 08:23 PM
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Ladies don't caca; they perspire excrement.
And speaking of excretions... with all this dancing around old friends (Stache, Pedro, Figueroa), Omar's got no room in his pay rolls for ol' Pee Hands?
(I hate to repeat myself, but if we're not going hard after Ohman, and our other RH bat options are Nomar and those two... yeep.)
Or, from the so-crazy-it-just-might-work department... Frank Thomas? (Still got a great eye, and could spell Delgado 1-2 times a week.)
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Gwreck
Feb 19 2009 11:05 PM
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We got Alex Cora to back-up instead of Nomar?
Seriously?
Reyes is going to play 160 games or something, and if he gets hurt, then we can sign Alex Cora. I'd take my chances with giving Nomar the 5 starts at short we give Reyes off.
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Edgy DC
Feb 20 2009 05:36 AM
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="Gwreck":3u3fvm4z]Reyes is going to play 160 games or something, and if he gets hurt, then we can sign Alex Cora.[/quote:3u3fvm4z]
How do you figure? Nobody's going to sign him? Ever?
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Gwreck
Feb 20 2009 08:25 AM
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Maybe not Cora himself, but there'd likely be another no-hit, good-field middle infielder available somewhere, no?
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Edgy DC
Feb 20 2009 08:30 AM
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But, for a reserve, Cora is actually a modest-hit, excellent field guy, and a rarer bird than you're giving him credit for. He's perfectly capable of stealing the second base job.
Nomar remains what he's been the last couple of years --- a good enough hitter to demand more PT than a reserve infielder (five games? you think he'd go for that?), but no obvious position.
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Gwreck
Feb 20 2009 10:15 AM
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I don't think Nomar would start only 5 games; I think he'd also spell Delgado occasionally against a tough lefty, and also serve as Wright's backup at third. He'd also be the primary pinch-hitting bat off the bench.
The 5 games reference is that the Mets don't necessarily need a player taking up a spot on the bench, when all they require is a player who has the defensive skills to be a shortstop for about 5 games a year.
I see the point about him being a good enough hitter to deserve more PT than a reserve but submit that if he's unsigned, he's not getting PT anywhere.
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Nymr83
Feb 20 2009 12:24 PM
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| ]situational lefties:
Joe Beimel, RP (31) -type (B)
Dennys Reyes, RP (31) -type (B)
Will Ohman, RP (31) |
Someone brought up in the Griffey thread what they saw as a need for another lefty. I disagree. I thought one of the problems with the 2008 Mets was that Schoenweis and Feliciano were redundant- they both got lefties out but couldn't handle righties- and this forced the managers to use them in situations they weren't suited for, leading them to fail.
One situational lefty is all I want to see on the team.
If theres a Dennis Cook out there who can get righties out too that would be great, but I don't see him in these guys. Ohman and Reyes both get abused by righties, Beimel actually isn't too bad for his career but he was the past 2 years.
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attgig
Feb 20 2009 01:13 PM
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hudson is apparently now a dodger.
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Nymr83
Feb 20 2009 01:19 PM
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it says he signed with LA on rotoworld but the terms of the deal havent been disclosed yet.
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smg58
Feb 20 2009 01:51 PM
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According to mlb.com, Hudson is getting one year and $3.4M, with up to $4.6M in incentives.
If bringing in Ollie at 3 and 36 made it impossible to offer Hudson even that little, then the Mets should have settled for Garland at half the annual salary, or even Looper for less than that. Somebody else signing Ollie would have also gotten us two better draft picks than the one Hudson would have cost.
Or perhaps Minaya is not yet willing to own up to the blunder he made in giving Castillo four years.
Either way, I'm unhappy.
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metirish
Feb 20 2009 01:55 PM
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I just can't accept or I don't buy the idea that the Mets couldn't offer Hudson a deal because they signed Perez to a reasonable deal.Maybe they just couldn't be arsed with him. I like Hudson but am not going to be thinking about him all season that's for sure.
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Frayed Knot
Feb 20 2009 02:01 PM
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I don't think it's any one reason exclusively why they sidestepped Hudson -- I think it's the extra money, on top of the draft pick it would cost, on top of the fact that they'd either have to still pay Castillo and/or have two 2Bmen who both wanted to start.
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Benjamin Grimm
Feb 20 2009 02:05 PM
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I can't help but see Hudson as a missed opportunity, whatever the reasons.
Hopefully Castillo will have three kick-ass seasons from 2009 through 2011 and make it all moot.
(I can hope, can't I?)
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Frayed Knot
Feb 20 2009 02:25 PM
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A good example of the adage about how it's easier to recover from the guy you fail to sign than it is to recover from the guy you sign at the wrong price.
In this case the difference is made even more stark by throwing in a bad 1st year on top of a dramatic price fall in the market place overall.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Feb 20 2009 04:42 PM
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="smg58":jlankl2g]
Or perhaps Minaya is not yet willing to own up to the blunder he made in giving Castillo four years.
Either way, I'm unhappy.[/quote:jlankl2g]
I think you've hit it exactly on the head. A hard head, at that.
Tenuous job security-- like Omar's, after two disappointing near-misses-- tends to lead to a whole lot of good-money-after-bad-ing.
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Centerfield
Feb 21 2009 05:29 AM
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It's because he's saving for Manny.
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Edgy DC
Feb 21 2009 10:36 AM
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I'm going to insist on looking on the dark side with Hudson. He's two years removed from his last golden glove. He ended 2007 with a thumb injury that was listed as "day to day," but cost him the last three and half weeks of the season as his team finished a game and a half out. Then he started the season with recurring hammy problems, and ended it in August with a dislocated wrist, which is an injury that could give a man pause.
Signing him costs that draft pick and means giving up pretty much on the duration of Castillo's contract, and perhaps the possiblity of transitioning Murphy over there this year, which the scoreboard shot suggests is maybe in the cards.
Cheap, yeah, but I'm here to sing the praises of standing pat. I'm always here for that.
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Benjamin Grimm
Feb 21 2009 03:48 PM
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And Hudson may be a free agent again after 2009. So we may have another shot at him.
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Nymr83
Feb 21 2009 04:07 PM
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a year older and possibly in a worse buyer's market.
the Mets really dropped the ball here considering the price they paid for freakin Cora and the bargain rate at which Hudson signed.
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Edgy DC
Feb 21 2009 06:10 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 21 2009 07:15 PM
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I don't think they dropped the ball at all. They made their choice decisively --- that they were looking to buy a new starter at second only if they could deal their current one.
Argue against that, but let's not imply that the Mets pursued him and failed by misreading the market. Or bought somebody else high.
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Kong76
Feb 21 2009 06:43 PM
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smg58: Or perhaps Minaya is not yet willing to own up to the blunder he made in giving Castillo four years <<<
I doubt that a guy running an ~ $200,000,000 business model let's that come
into play. His fish will be fried on the outcome of 2009 and not owning up to prior
poor signings will have nothing to with it.
LWFS: Tenuous job security-- like Omar's, after two disappointing near-misses-- tends to lead to a whole lot of good-money-after-bad-ing <<<
I typed five things and backspaced five times ... never mind.
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Edgy DC
Mar 03 2009 06:08 AM
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Alou hinting at retirement after the WBC.
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Rockin' Doc
Mar 03 2009 06:14 AM
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Alou has been semi-retired the past two seasons.
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