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IGT 9/3/05 - Mets vs. Marlins

Valadius Sep 03 2005 04:58 PM

Mets Reyes SS Cairo 2B Beltran CF Floyd LF Wright 3B Mientkiewicz 1B Castro C Diaz RF Benson P Marlins Pierre CF Castillo 2B Cabrera LF Delgado 1B Encarnacion RF Lo Duca C Lowell 3B Gonzalez SS Beckett P Pitching Matchup: Benson (9-6, 3.91) vs. Beckett (12-8, 3.62)

Iubitul Sep 03 2005 05:15 PM

Cairo batting second again... Will someone please rip the pinstriped glasses off of WWSB?

Valadius Sep 03 2005 05:18 PM

He's had one too many toasted Subway sandwiches...

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 05:19 PM

]Mientkiewicz 1B Here's hoping this fella works his ass off to redeem his season and ours.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 05:20 PM

He was doing just that before he got hurt. IIRC, his average was starting to creep up.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 05:25 PM

Yup. All Doug, all the time, to infinity and beyond.

Bret Sabermetric Sep 03 2005 05:27 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: ]Mientkiewicz 1B Here's hoping this fella works his ass off to redeem his season and ours. Very neat trick.

Rockin' Doc Sep 03 2005 05:43 PM

Cairo must have some dirt on Willie from their Yankee days. That's the only thing that makes sense of his love for Cairo. Thank goodness Heredia is gone or Willie would probably have him closing games.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 05:47 PM

Mientkiewicz went 8 for 12 in the last three games he was up here before yesterday.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 05:59 PM

Just about game time. Let's go METS!!!

Bret Sabermetric Sep 03 2005 06:01 PM

I guess Willie is starting to persuade some of you that he is a very limited thinker. That's a long way from "a stupid man," an "assclown," a "hateful weasel," and much else (largely undeserved--I wish him well on his next managerial post), but it's good to see that "Shower-Love-on-Willie" act is coming to a close. It's one thing to hire people he's familiar with, though were bazillions of better options for middle-infield, just not all former AL or AL East or Yankees. Not that his choices have all been as bad as Cairo, but the sabermetric approach says "If you give 500 ABs to 3 retread middle infielders who have a long track record of not producing, you will not be happy with the overall numbers at season's end." The non-sabermetric approach, I suppose, says, "Let's Go, Mets! Yay, Willie!" and then you're all bummed out in September. But it's another thing to stick with the bad choices for so long. That's the truly disturbing part.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 06:05 PM

The start of the game is being delayed due to "wet grounds".

SI Metman Sep 03 2005 06:26 PM

Game ON

duan Sep 03 2005 06:29 PM

I just don't get why we keep dissing Diaz in the lineup. If you look at the team in terms of eqa it goes David Wright .313 Cliff Floyd .296 Victor Diaz .288 Mike Cameron .285 Ramon Castro .283 Chris Woodward .266 Carlos Beltran .265 Mike Piazza .265 Doug Mientkiewicz .264 Jose Reyes .252 Marlon Anderson .244 Miguel Cairo .229 Kaz Matsui .211 AND he's 4th in the team in OBP so it's not like they can say he's a low obp with pop guy that might be suited to 7 slot. Now Diaz is a GIDP machine (he's had 48 GIDP opportunities and 12 'successful' GIDP's - that's a rate of 25%) So we need to figure out what's the correct balance between protecting from the GIDP and maximise his value to the lineup. [url]http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=24665[/url] I'd be on for trying out batting him 2nd on the basis that Reyes is pretty hard to double up and that with Beltran 3rd it'd be another "hard to double guy behind him" Batting him 7th/8th in front of or behind Castro, Minky et al is a recipe for the GIDP bonanza that we've had AND minimising the impact of his excellent hitting. **** EqA Equivalent Average. A measure of total offensive value per out, with corrections for league offensive level, home park, and team pitching. EQA considers batting as well as baserunning, but not the value of a position player's defense. The EqA adjusted for all-time also has a correction for league difficulty. The scale is deliberately set to approximate that of batting average. League average EqA is always equal to .260. EqA is derived from Raw EqA, which is (H + TB + 1.5*(BB + HBP + SB) + SH + SF) divided by (AB + BB + HBP + SH + SF + CS + SB). REqA is then normalized to account for league difficulty and scale to create EqA.[/url]

Iubitul Sep 03 2005 06:31 PM

I would love to see Reyes Beltran Wright Floyd as 1-4

Zvon Sep 03 2005 06:37 PM

if Beckett paints that outside corner all evening like he did in the 1st, we are in a world of trouble. Id like to watch this game uninterupted tonight. Omar.......hold all my calls.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 06:50 PM

Oh, I wanted Floyd so much to make a fool out of me for my fatigue statement last night, but the ball dies at the warning track. Damn. Maybe those raindrops drove it down. OUCH.Wright had a pitch to hit there. Mienky hits a hard out. Lets just hope that Benson has a primo game on the mound. He looked great in the 1st.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 06:52 PM

Wright is a more dangerous hitter than Floyd, though, IMO. Therefore, it should be as follows: Reyes Beltran Floyd Wright And then find someone to protect Wright.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 06:56 PM

Now that I think about it, I have a better idea - get another big bat that allows Floyd to move to 5th.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 06:59 PM

Zeros through two.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:02 PM

I had a strange feeling that Castro would get the first hit of the day.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:05 PM

Benson walks, runners on first and second with one out, and here's Reyes.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:10 PM

Reyes grounds out, runners advance, 2 out, and here's goddamn Cairo with runners in scoring position.

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 07:10 PM

Hey, Cairo! You suck!

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:11 PM

I really hate Cairo.

Rockin' Doc Sep 03 2005 07:12 PM

All for naught. Stil no score heading to the bottom of the third.

Nymr83 Sep 03 2005 07:14 PM

we want Hernandez NOW!

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:15 PM

Ramon Castro has a better batting average than Carlos Beltran. That is SAD.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 07:15 PM

thought we'd capitalize there. Seein eye single, he walks Benson, Reyes moves em over with a decent AB, then Beckett makes a fool out of Cairo on that outside corner. Cant let opportunities like that go by. Not vs Beckett.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 07:17 PM

Benson lookin good tho., so theres that

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:17 PM

Benson flies through the order, moving to the 4th.

martin Sep 03 2005 07:20 PM

when they put that upcoming pitching probables graphic on the screen it is really reassuring: seo trax pedro glavine i like it. everybody on that list is red hot and pitching great now except pedro. and thats a good sign when pedro is the question mark. thats a solid lineup. i would be alot more worried if the pitching hadnt been so fantastic of late.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 07:20 PM

Longest possible time till Cairo bats again, aka rally time with a Beltranian double.

Rockin' Doc Sep 03 2005 07:20 PM

Heart of the order due up for the Mets. Let's see if they have a pulse.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:21 PM

Beltran serves up a double! Here's Cliffy.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 07:21 PM

BANG. POW.

Rockin' Doc Sep 03 2005 07:21 PM

Beltran leads off with a double. I'll be happy with a single, Cliffie.

Rockin' Doc Sep 03 2005 07:22 PM

Cliffie must be Santa, because he really came through for me.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 07:22 PM

opposite field for Floyd. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Way to goooooooooo 2-0 Mets with a lead

Bret Sabermetric Sep 03 2005 07:23 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 03 2005 07:24 PM

Valadius wrote: Now that I think about it, I have a better idea - get another big bat that allows Floyd to move to 5th. [/smites forehead] If only Valadius had spoken up when Delgado was available, the Mets would be way in first place now! oe: changed "We" to "the Mets"; years of habit.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:23 PM

Ka-BOOM-BOOM Cliffy!!!

KC Sep 03 2005 07:25 PM

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:30 PM

Beckett's up to 77 pitches through 4. Way to tire him, guys.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:35 PM

Way to come back from a 3-0 count, Kris!

Zvon Sep 03 2005 07:37 PM

love that pic KC That makes my hard drive in a click/click

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 07:39 PM

Bad play Victor.

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 07:39 PM

Fucking Diaz.

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 07:39 PM

Is it an error?

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:41 PM

As I have said numerous times, I DON'T like Diaz out there.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 07:41 PM

that was called a hit!? Cripes. Diaz, whaddup? Dont be givin them gifts like bloop doubles. With Delgado up, no less. yikes

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 07:41 PM

predictable.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 07:42 PM

UGH. I dont care what they called that bloop, it was an error to me and..... ERRORS KILL! Delgado launches a monster homer.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:43 PM

WTF!?!?!?!?!

Nymr83 Sep 03 2005 07:43 PM

he lost it in the lights. i seem to recall cameron doing that last year with the bases loaded. its part of the game and a bad call by the official scorer thats gotta be an Error.

Edgy DC Sep 03 2005 07:44 PM

Double by number-three hitter. Homer by the cleanup hitter. A true tie.

duan Sep 03 2005 07:45 PM fwiw Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 03 2005 07:48 PM

Sal Said "If only Valadius had spoken up when Delgado was available, the Mets would be way in first place now!" Look this is just silly; The Mets made a very good go at signing Delgado, the fact of the matter is that it didn't quite happen; it wasn't due to Wilpon being tight with money, it wasn't due to the Mets being stupid. If you get involved in high level negotiations there's always moments where deals can be stand/fall. They got close but didn't get there.[edited extra] - You have a point where you have to make a decision, call someone's bluff, go one more round, accept a counter proposal - only those WITHIN the negotiations know how it ended up where it did. They did get the other three big deals done (Benson, Martinez & Beltran) - 3/4 it isn't bad. So I'll give them a mulligan on Delgado. ***** of course: Delgado hitting a two run jack shows that Minaya MAY have got the evaluation wrong and SHOULD have gone to the 60/64/100 million that may have got it done. *******

Zvon Sep 03 2005 07:46 PM

Nymr83 wrote: he lost it in the lights. i seem to recall cameron doing that last year with the bases loaded. its part of the game and a bad call by the official scorer thats gotta be an Error. He did end up getting his glove on it, and catching it, but it blooped out. Yea, error. There are errors in judgement, and that was one of em. Aint it just like baseball. A teams cruisin and then a bonehead play is followed by a homer. Dagnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnabbit

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 07:51 PM

And Reyes hurts himself sliding into third. I called it a long time ago. _____________________________ Coincidentally, this post was made under the designation 165) Jose Reyes

Edgy DC Sep 03 2005 07:51 PM

Did Lowell --- is that still Lowell? --- intentionally step into Reyes' path there?

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 07:52 PM

He stays in the game and scores on Cairo's sacrifice. _____________________________ Coincidentally, this post was made under the designation 165) Jose Reyes

Zvon Sep 03 2005 07:53 PM Re: fwiw

duan wrote: ***** of course: Delgado hitting a two run jack shows that Minaya MAY have got the evaluation wrong and SHOULD have gone to the 60/64/100 million that may have got it done. ******* I hate to say this, esp here in a game thread, but according to Delgado, what Minaya should not have done was bring up the race angle. Said it turned him right off. Reyes makes it happen. NOOOOOOOOOOOhe cant be hurt. I broke my finger sliding head 1st into third just like that playin CYO ball about 100 yrs ago. He stays in and scores on a sac. Mets back in front. Bensons a kool pitcher. i think he's gonna make this last as long as he's in there.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:54 PM

Ouch. I hope he's okay.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 07:54 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Did Lowell --- is that still Lowell? --- intentionally step into Reyes' path there? dont think it was intentional. Reyes's hand just found Lowells foot.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 07:56 PM

shit. I think Floyd hurt himself on that check swing. rib area.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 07:57 PM

The injury bug better not bite now!!!!

Edgy DC Sep 03 2005 08:04 PM

Mientkiewicz would have been further off the bag and caught that. Oh, wait, that is Mientkiewicz.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 08:04 PM

Shit. They're sending out the grand slam kid.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 08:07 PM

Valadius wrote: Shit. They're sending out the grand slam kid. dont worry.... the bases aint juiced. Benson dont look all that kool so far this inning. Come on---bear down

Edgy DC Sep 03 2005 08:10 PM

Good move by McKeon going to the pen early. Randolph should've done that with Zambrano.

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 08:12 PM

Nice job by Kristin getting two ground balls to first with the bases loaded to get out of it!

Valadius Sep 03 2005 08:13 PM

Beckett had thrown 98 pitches, so it made sense.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 08:13 PM

wow. benson gets out of it. Excellent. whew. Thought the Fish would HAVE TO plate one.

Rockin' Doc Sep 03 2005 08:13 PM

I'm glad to see Beckett out of there. Castilla grounds out to Benson to end the inning. Mets still cling to a 3-2 lead.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 08:14 PM

Nice job by Benson there. Didn't give Hermaphrodite a chance to hit something fair, then got grounders he needed.

martin Sep 03 2005 08:15 PM

i have heard alfonseca has an extra finger. is that true?

Valadius Sep 03 2005 08:15 PM

The Mutant is pitching!!!

Zvon Sep 03 2005 08:16 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Good move by McKeon going to the pen early. I read McKeon will consider going to a 3 man rotation down the stretch. How wack is that? Willis Beckett Burnett

Valadius Sep 03 2005 08:16 PM

Yes, he has six fingers on each hand. Who knows what crazy pitches only he can throw?

Valadius Sep 03 2005 08:19 PM

Wright singles; Manker at the plate.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 08:21 PM

Two caught stealings too many in this game. If you don't got it, don't try it.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 08:22 PM

Wright caught stealing and Mientkiewicz singles.

Edgy DC Sep 03 2005 08:25 PM

Bad move by McKeon going to the pen early.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 08:25 PM

Diaz singles home Mientkiewicz, 4-2 Mets.

ScarletKnight41 Sep 03 2005 08:26 PM

Minty scores on VD's single!

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 08:27 PM

Diaz and Cairo can drive in all the runs they want; I will still dislike them.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 08:28 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Two caught stealings too many in this game. If you don't got it, don't try it. They had to try. DeLuco supposed to be lame. Bad hammy Well, it turns out okay. Diaz drives in Mienky with a big single. Id like to see afew more insurance runs though. (like who here wouldnt,lol)

Valadius Sep 03 2005 08:31 PM

Didn't we have a mutant pitcher, too? Brett Hinchliffe, wasn't it?

Valadius Sep 03 2005 08:36 PM

Goddamn Yahoo Sports froze again. Have to rely on my Scoreboard Widget.

ScarletKnight41 Sep 03 2005 08:37 PM

VD - making the routine catch exciting.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 08:37 PM

]They had to try. No they didn't.

ScarletKnight41 Sep 03 2005 08:38 PM

Valadius wrote: Didn't we have a mutant pitcher, too? Brett Hinchliffe, wasn't it? Yes - he was missing some fingers.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 08:39 PM

Top 7, 4-2 Mets. Damn Yahoo Sports and its freezing, because that's all I know.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 08:43 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: ]They had to try. No they didn't. hehe. ..............did.

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 08:46 PM

Dude, invest in sportsline.com... it's the best of the live scoring modules.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 08:47 PM

Now bottom 7th, still 4-2 Mets. It seems as if all of the internet sports websites use the same scoreboard system, because they're all frozen in the same place. EXPOSED!!!

Zvon Sep 03 2005 08:48 PM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: VD - making the routine catch exciting. has he ever gone directly to a fly ball? Whatwiththat? He lopes around doin a lil dance, like a soft shoe or something. Maybe its a rain dance. Only Tommie Agee himself could get away with that type of loping gait. And he loped toward the fly, not all around it. Well, he looked okay on that last one. I think the harder its hit to Diaz, the better off he is fielding it.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 08:51 PM

Valadius wrote: Now bottom 7th, still 4-2 Mets. It seems as if all of the internet sports websites use the same scoreboard system, because they're all frozen in the same place. EXPOSED!!! its a conspiracy, I tell ya. Hey, old Lenny Harris. Of course he pinch hits a single. What eles would he do? 1 out, 1 & 2nd and Benson is outta there. (invest in sportsline....isnt that free? http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/gamecenter/live/MLB_20050903_NYM@FLA )

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 08:52 PM

Z - just messin' with ya. I know it's free. The Yahoo and ESPN live scoring modules drive me loopy; I use Sportsline too.

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 08:53 PM

Hey, Juan Padilla! One of the students I work with has a friend who is "sorta seeing him."

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 08:57 PM

Here comes Mr. Zero. Bases loaded vs. Cabrera. Welcome to the National League!

Zvon Sep 03 2005 08:57 PM

seawolf17 wrote: Hey, Juan Padilla! One of the students I work with has a friend who is "sorta seeing him." figured SW. Padilla does not do his job. walks Castillo bring on Shingo Takatsu. lets face it folks, we aint gonna go anywhere if the specialists dont do their jobs and we have to see if they can do it. We have to run em out there. We have to go thru this. ItsAbaseball.

duan Sep 03 2005 08:59 PM

This one of those things that kinda irks me. two men on, one out, with a two run lead. That screams *bring in your best reliever* to me. Is that still bert?

Nymr83 Sep 03 2005 08:59 PM

Takatsu??????????? Why not Roberto Hernandez in this HUGE spot?

Zvon Sep 03 2005 09:00 PM

quoted the wrong quote there by SW. Seawolf, tell your friend to cut him off. He dont deserve the nookie tonight.

duan Sep 03 2005 09:01 PM great!

that went REALLY REALLY REALLY well didn't it?

Nymr83 Sep 03 2005 09:01 PM

gee nobody saw that coming. FIRE THIS MOTHER FUCKER AND HIRE A FORMER PITCHER FOR NEXT YEAR, SOMEONE NEEDS TO LEARN HOW TO MANAGE A BULLPEN.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 09:01 PM

Goddamn it.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 09:01 PM

Willie: "I can't go to Berto, it's not the eighth inning yet!"

ScarletKnight41 Sep 03 2005 09:01 PM

FUCKSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zvon Sep 03 2005 09:01 PM

ughhhhhhhhhhhh that was ugly OMG a fatter fastball than Takatsu tossed Ive never seen. Cabrera drives in 3 with the double,.....ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Nymr83 Sep 03 2005 09:02 PM

NOW Heath Bell is warming up? WHERE THE HELL WAS HE EARLIER? stop fucking around in a penant race morons!!!

MiniKnight Sep 03 2005 09:03 PM

Talk about a first three pitches as a Met....

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 09:03 PM

Dammit.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 09:03 PM

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WILLIE?!?!?!?! You don't bring in a guy who's never pitched for you before when the bases are loaded!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 09:04 PM

Padilla had no biz walking Castillo there either. I know it was a huge shot but didn't Floyd have a shot at it? Team effort screw up.

duan Sep 03 2005 09:04 PM

seriously though, if willie doesn't get the concept of high leverage it's a real problem. He put in two guys who CLEARLY are 6th/7th in the pen territory in the most crucial spot of the game.

Nymr83 Sep 03 2005 09:04 PM

PLEASE FIRE WWSB (wee willie small brain) right now. let Glavine be a player-manager, he'd probably do better.

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 09:05 PM

This one's on Willie. Bert is best when he's on good rest. Bert is on good rest. Therefore, bring in the new guy who spent the first half of the year getting shelled, then pitched eight AAA innings. Dammit dammit dammit.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 09:06 PM

Damn. Willie will have to answer for takin the chance there with Shingo as opposed to Hernandez, but as i said, everybodys gonna have to do their bit if the Mets are gonna hang. May as well see what we have workin for us now. Braves and St Lou comin up, and we could end up like kabillion games out after this road trip if the pen is gonna give it up like that.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 09:07 PM

ART HOWE wouldn't have even made the same mistake!!!!!!!

Nymr83 Sep 03 2005 09:07 PM

Wright leads off with a single, come on boys, bail out your dumbass manager!

Valadius Sep 03 2005 09:10 PM

Oh look, it's Guillermo Mota the Piazza-beaner.

Nymr83 Sep 03 2005 09:10 PM

wright at 2nd 2 outs and its CASTRO TIME~!

Nymr83 Sep 03 2005 09:13 PM

and castro belatedly called out on a check swing....how bout showing som heart and getting yourself tossed there willie?

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 09:13 PM

Castro with the Hustle Award. We've very much reverted to the way we lost games at the beginning of the year: Stupidly and badly.

Edgy DC Sep 03 2005 09:13 PM

Some jive calls on Castro, I think.

ScarletKnight41 Sep 03 2005 09:13 PM

What major leaguer doesn't know that he has to run to first base on a swinging third strike that get away. Jesus!

Zvon Sep 03 2005 09:14 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Padilla had no biz walking Castillo there either. to me, this is worst than what happened after because it offset the whole shebang. He only had to get one out, and he didnt even pitch to the guy. Gave him a free pass. At least get the guy to put the ball in play. Damn,,,did you see Castros face on that? He knew he swung there. Thats a bad break. The pitch fools batter and catcher.

Nymr83 Sep 03 2005 09:15 PM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: What major leaguer doesn't know that he has to run to first base on a swinging third strike that get away. Jesus! he thought he checked his swing there...if you start running to first you are definetaly getting called on the swing, you've gotta sit there and act like you didnt go around.

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 09:20 PM

"Excuse me, Mr. Umpire. I do believe that's an incorrect--- oh, I'm sorry. You're probably right. I'll just go back to the dugout now. Thank you, sir."

Rotblatt Sep 03 2005 09:20 PM

Padilla had to get two outs and he got one. No excuse for walking Castillo but he DID get one out, Zvon. Willie's a fucking retard and couldn't manage a motherfuckng bullpen to save his life. Bell's been doing pretty well all season long and should've been used instead of fucking Takatsu. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we brought Takatsu up, but he has control problems and bringing him in with the bases loaded makes little sense. Should've been Robo or Bell up there instead, no question. Should've been Heilman, really, but after he bailed Zambrano out last night, he wasn't available. Castro got punked there, but Willie's lack of fire disturbs me. Get angry, Willie and fire your boys up. All game, I KNEW it would be another stupid, heartbreaking loss, but I let myself get pulled in again, and AGAIN it's Willie that's letting me down. He just doesn't get it, and it's ridiculously frustrating.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 09:20 PM

Castro, as soon as he saw the ball get by DeLuca, shoulda tore ass to 1st. wright pullin into 3rd, I bet either thered be no throw of a rushed throw and an error, there. These things are easy to say in retrospect. Nice catch by Floyd. Shingo gets another chance and does his job this inning, but it could be too little too late. Mets have to make siomething happen. It be nice if Diaz walked the walk and kaboomed one here.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 09:20 PM

Shingles works a 1-2-3 inning.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 09:21 PM

] you've gotta sit there and act like you didnt go around. I disagree -- umpires make the call, players don;t. If he didn't swing he gets another chance. If he runs, he's safe at first. It's a stupid play, just like his baserunning fuckup that foreshadowed the dreaded Friday Pittsburgh game.

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 09:21 PM

Castro doesn't strike me as a really bright light. Way to swing at the first pitch, Diaz, you @!&$*(&(!*@%(!*@^$(*^!%(*&!@(*@%!(*#^(!*@%(*!&@(*&#(@!*&$!(*@^$. @!(&$@!

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 09:22 PM

I hat baseball.

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 09:22 PM

Someone please perform the last rites on this team. _____________________________ This post was under the designation 165) Jose Reyes

Rotblatt Sep 03 2005 09:24 PM

By the way, I can't believe Diaz fucked up the perfect game bid by Benson. Unreal. I was screaming at my set, even before Delgado launched the ball into the bleachers. The Mets are just depressing as hell to watch these days.

Rockin' Doc Sep 03 2005 09:24 PM

Damn, I step out for a bit and all hell breaks loose. Time for a miraculous rally in the ninth.

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 09:24 PM

DO NOT LET CAIRO BAT.

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 09:24 PM

seawolf17 wrote: Castro doesn't strike me as a really bright light. Way to swing at the first pitch, Diaz, you @!&$*(&(!*@%(!*@^$(*^!%(*&!@(*@%!(*#^(!*@%(*!&@(*&#(@!*&$!(*@^$. @!(&$@! I don't really have a problem swinging at the first pitch. I do have a problem with Cairo taking his at-bat here. _____________________________ This post was under the designation 165) Jose Reyes

Valadius Sep 03 2005 09:25 PM

Of course he's not a bright one. Look at the damn picture! He's clueless!

Rotblatt Sep 03 2005 09:25 PM

Oh, good, he's leaving Cairo in! Fucking genius, Willie.

Edgy DC Sep 03 2005 09:26 PM

Get Cairo out of there.

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 09:26 PM

Base hit or not, there's no reason to leave Cairo up in that spot. Who's on the bench?

Rotblatt Sep 03 2005 09:26 PM

Oh, good, he's leaving Beltran in. Fucking genius, Willie.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 09:26 PM

Cairo now 4 for his last 47. Beltran, we need you. NEED YOU.

Rockin' Doc Sep 03 2005 09:26 PM

How could Willie possinbly pinch hit for Cairo? I mean, he was once a Yankee, so he must be good.

Edgy DC Sep 03 2005 09:26 PM

Well, then, OK.

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 09:26 PM

And Cairo jams my words back down my throat with a single to left. Time for Beltran to earn his pay. A loss here and the season is over as far as I'm concerned. _____________________________ This post was under the designation 165) Jose Reyes

Zvon Sep 03 2005 09:27 PM

Rotblatt wrote: Padilla had to get two outs and he got one. No excuse for walking Castillo but he DID get one out, Zvon. Willie's a fucking retard and couldn't manage a motherfuckng bullpen to save his life. Im not defending his moves. Im just tryin to ease the pain with my slant on things. We can second guess this game all night in quite afew situations. Reyes and cairo keep it alive. Beltran.Time to get the big hit

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 09:27 PM

Ah hell, it's Beltran. Isn't Glavine available?

Rotblatt Sep 03 2005 09:28 PM

Big stupid cut by Beltran on a pitch high followed by a pitch right down the middle of the plate which Beltran takes.

Rockin' Doc Sep 03 2005 09:28 PM

Beltran, you no hitting flop. Time to earn your pay.* * It worked for Cairo, maybe it will help now.

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 09:28 PM

He watched a fastball go down the middle of the plate for strike 2. Then a ball. 2-2 now. _____________________________ This post was under the designation 165) Jose Reyes

seawolf17 Sep 03 2005 09:29 PM

I still hat baseball.

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 09:30 PM

Well that's it for me. I'll check back in a week. _____________________________ This post was under the designation 165) Jose Reyes

Rockin' Doc Sep 03 2005 09:30 PM

Beltran grounds out to first to end another depressing game. Apparently, Carlos is beyond reverse psychology. This team is sinking fast.

Valadius Sep 03 2005 09:31 PM

Until he proves otherwise, as punishment for being a dumbass, Willie Randolph will now be referred to by me as WWSB.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 09:31 PM

Ouch.

duan Sep 03 2005 09:31 PM

manager has to hold his hand up there. he got it wrong, not once but twice with the pen.

Bret Sabermetric Sep 03 2005 09:32 PM Re: fwiw

duan wrote: the fact of the matter is that it didn't quite happen; Hmmm... a late entry in our "Guess the Mets Slogan for 2006" contest. Very strong, Duan.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 09:32 PM

ewww. this was painful. Carlos swings at the hi heat and watches a middle in fastball go by. OWWWWWWWWWWWW. This was a game we coulda shoulda won, and times running out. How many,......27 games left?

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 09:32 PM

Zvon Sep 03 2005 09:42 PM

duan wrote: he got it wrong, not once but twice with the pen. lol @ JD Willie is developing this tag. I cant go thru another manager who has no finger on the pulse of his pitchers.Im sure Rick Peterson really makes those calls (thats what he's paid for), but bottomline, the buck stops with Willie. He took a chance tonight, a chance I may have taken myself (nah, I woulda switched pitchers but not put Shingo in that specific spot), and it backfires bigtime on him. Im sure he will say alot of what your hearin from me post game. If this teams gonna hang and roll with the big boys even the smallest cogs will have to grease the wheel.

Rotblatt Sep 03 2005 09:42 PM

I really just blame WIllie on this. Beltran hasn't hit all season long, yet he remains our number three hitter. Cairo hasn't hit all season long, yet remains in the lineup AND our number two hitter. Zambrano has been inconsistent, but remains in the rotation. Heilman has been fucking dominant all season, but only gets used in low-leverage situations. Bell has been solid, but only gets used in blow-outs. It's not Beltran's fault. He's doing what he's done all season. Ditto with Cairo and Zambrano. Willie's not willing to make adjustments, and it's frankly indefensible, ESPECIALLY in a fucking pennant race. Just to back up my "leverage" definitions, Heilman's LEV (from BP) is 0.64 and Bell's at 0.79. For comparison, Robo's is around 1.5 and Loop around 1.78. Willie is a fucking retard and has single-handedly cost us the playoffs, from giving Ishii too many starts to playing Cairo to moving Heilman to the pen then letting him rot there to sending Seo back to the minors to never giving Beltran a day off and leaving him in the three hole to keeping Piazza for so long to not giving Petey enough extra days off . . . Unfuckng believable. Shake something up, asshole. Anything. Call up some kids, switch up the lineup, get thrown out of a fucking game and fire up your goddamn players. LEV is: ]Leverage measures how important the situations a reliever has been used in. A leverage of 1.00 is the same importance as the start of a game. Leverage values below one represent situations that are less important than the start of a game (such as mopup innings in a blowout). Leverage values above one represent situations with more importance (such as a closer protecting a one-run lead with bases loaded in the 9th inning). Mathematically, leverage is based on the win expectancy work done by Keith Woolner in BP 2005, and is defined as the change in the probability of winning the game from scoring (or allowing) one additional run in the current game situation divided by the change in probability from scoring (or allowing) one run at the start of the game.

Bret Sabermetric Sep 03 2005 09:42 PM

You poor fuckers. I feel for you. Sincerely. A loss like this has got to eat you alive. Was it my imagination or did this game go on forever? It seemed to me I picked the game up in progress (I was in at work where the radio reception is very spotty), then I walked over Brooklyn Bridge, got in my car, drove to Forest Hills, went shopping, and by the time I got upstairs the game was in the eighth inning. My first thought was "Doubleheader?" Was there a rain delay or something?

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 09:44 PM

Bret Sabermetric wrote: You poor fuckers. I feel for you. Sincerely. You sound sincere, referring to a large group of people as fuckers.

Rotblatt Sep 03 2005 09:52 PM

Thanks, Sal! I appreciate sympathy in games like this from a Sox fan, because y'all have suffered so much. Bucky Dent, Bill Buckner, Aaron Boone, McGrady . . . Tragic moments forever imprinted on your brain, I'm sure, during your long-suffering years following the Sox.

Bret Sabermetric Sep 03 2005 09:53 PM

Can I refer to a small bunch of you as "fuckers"? Re-form in small groups, and I'll refer to all of you fornicators (is that okay?) as Elster requests. I don't know how to kiss your asses the correct way. I really feel sorry for you guys (not that I'm upset, as I would be if I was rooting for the Mets) and if you want to hear my commisseration as mocking you, I don't know what I can do about it.

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 09:55 PM

]Willie is a fucking retard and has single-handedly cost us the playoffs, I think this is just going way too far though. This is not a playoff team.

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 09:57 PM

Bret Sabermetric wrote: Can I refer to a small bunch of you as "fuckers"? Re-form in small groups, and I'll refer to all of you fornicators (is that okay?) as Elster requests. I don't know how to kiss your asses the correct way. I really feel sorry for you guys (not that I'm upset, as I would be if I was rooting for the Mets) and if you want to hear my commisseration as mocking you, I don't know what I can do about it. I prefer copulators. Seriously, if you want to express sincere heartfelt sympathies, why not just say "I feel sorry for you."? Why add the tag fuckers? Not that I'm that thin-skinned, I'm not going to cry over the word fuckers. It just seems as a weird thing to say in a post where you're saying you feel bad for people, and I think it's not hard to see how it could be taken for mocking when you say fuckers. If you didn't mean it in a sarcastic way, then I misread you and I apologize.

Rotblatt Sep 03 2005 10:00 PM

How can you possibly say that, Elster? Despite Willie's gross incompetance, we're STILL only 3.5 games out of the wild card slot. Don't you think that giving Seo 7 or 8 of Ishii's starts would have netted us a game or two? Or that using Heilman in close games instead of Aybar or DeJean would have gotten us a game or two? And how about replacing Cairo with a kid with some range? I'm not so sure how much altering the lineup would have helped in terms of winning more games, but it sure wouldn't have hurt.

Bret Sabermetric Sep 03 2005 10:03 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Sep 03 2005 10:06 PM

It's cool, Elster. After certain losses, my best friend could say "Gosh, that's a tough one" and I'd scream, "Fuck you, asshole, what do you know about 'tough'? Shut the fuck up, and get out of my face," and then I'd proceed to get abusive and personal. Generally, it took me an hour or two not to read pretty much anything as sarcastic. And Rot: I've just been a real (primary-rooting-interest) Sox fan these last few months, so I didn't really take that stuff too much to heart. But thanks just the same.

Zvon Sep 03 2005 10:04 PM

Bret Sabermetric wrote: Was there a rain delay or something? there was a pregame rain delay of like 25 minutes,you poor uninformed fucker. :wink: that was a tuff one. And I hear ya Rotblatt and Elster. I choose not to hear you, Bret.

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 10:05 PM

Rotblatt wrote: How can you possibly say that, Elster? Despite Willie's gross incompetance, we're STILL only 3.5 games out of the wild card slot. Don't you think that giving Seo 7 or 8 of Ishii's starts would have netted us a game or two? Or that using Heilman in close games instead of Aybar or DeJean would have gotten us a game or two? And how about replacing Cairo with a kid with some range? I'm not so sure how much altering the lineup would have helped in terms of winning more games, but it sure wouldn't have hurt. Not really. The problem with this team is not all of that as much as the fact that we can't hit. That isn't Willie's fault. Sure, if he had made every decision perfectly we might be better off. But let's not forget that Bert and Loopy lost two leads in Milwaukee, and then there's opening day, and then there's the other games the bullpen lost Petey's leads. Not to put all the blame on the bullpen, but that's just a few examples where the players didn't perform. (I think overall the bullpen has been average to above average. There have also been plenty of instances of 1-0 losses or 2-1 losses. As frustrated as I am with Willie, I think to blame him for missing the playoffs is silly and probably just a reaction to today's mismanagement. The lineup is the problem. I really think one huge bat (*cough* Delgado *cough*) would've been what pushed us into the playoffs, not a different manager.

Rotblatt Sep 03 2005 10:23 PM

Elster, we're fifth in the league in Runs Scored. In terms of ERA, WHIP, K/9, we've got one of the better pens in the league. We've given up the 5th fewest runs in the league. By RS & RA, we should have won 5 games more than we have so far. We CAN hit, and we HAVE hit enough to be leading the WC race in a piss-poor league like the one we're in now. What I'm saying is that the X factor has been WIllie, and that his many poor choices have cost us at least a couple of games--the couple we'd need to be leading the WC race.

Bret Sabermetric Sep 03 2005 10:31 PM

Elster and Rotblatt--don't fight. You're both right. WWSB is a rookie, and not a precocious one. He's made more than his share of stupid calls, and it's an open question as to what his potential really is. He's definitely cost them more games than he's won for them (over your average MLB manager, that is.) But he didn't have a very good squad to work with either. The ownership cheaped out, decided to go with two big FA signings when the team needed at least three to compete, and they threw Willie in with the sharks, hoping he'd tread water through late september and you p.f.s would buy tickets until they got eliminated. IMO, you only got this far because the rest of the division had its problems playiing much above .500--most years, some team will burst out of the pack by early August.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 03 2005 10:33 PM

I think team OBP in our case speaks louder than RS. WWSB hasn't helped much in that regard, and made some questionable decisions, but let's go easy on the wound-licking: We're not a great team. Philly and Florida over the last week have given us what we've earned pretty much.

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 11:14 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 03 2005 11:16 PM

Rotblatt wrote: Elster, we're fifth in the league in Runs Scored. In terms of ERA, WHIP, K/9, we've got one of the better pens in the league. We've given up the 5th fewest runs in the league. By RS & RA, we should have won 5 games more than we have so far. We CAN hit, and we HAVE hit enough to be leading the WC race in a piss-poor league like the one we're in now. What I'm saying is that the X factor has been WIllie, and that his many poor choices have cost us at least a couple of games--the couple we'd need to be leading the WC race. I think Runs Scored is a flawed stat to use in measuring a team's offensive capabilites. We put up 34 runs in two games against shitty pitching. Then what happened as soon as we hit San Fran and Philly? Was it like 8 runs in 5 games?

Elster88 Sep 03 2005 11:15 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I think team OBP in our case speaks louder than RS. WWSB hasn't helped much in that regard, and made some questionable decisions, but let's go easy on the wound-licking: We're not a great team. Philly and Florida over the last week have given us what we've earned pretty much. I'd have to agree with all of this, and the use of OPB over RS (though not just because it supports my argument.)

Valadius Sep 03 2005 11:37 PM

I say forget stats and formulas and all that nonsense. At the end of the day, you either win or you lose.

Rotblatt Sep 04 2005 08:52 AM

]I think team OBP in our case speaks louder than RS.. I'm sorry, but NOTHING speaks louer than runs scored. The purpose of an offense is to SCORE RUNS, not get on base. Getting on base is just one method to acheive that end. The bottom line, when it comes to an offense, is how many runs we score. And we've done a pretty good job of that. I mean, do you all SERIOUSLY think we would have won more games if our team OBP were 40 points higher but we scored the same number of runs? It just doesn't make any sense.

Bret Sabermetric Sep 04 2005 09:02 AM

Agreed, Rot. Most primary stat is W-L. As Parcells said, if you ever need to know how good you are, look at your record. But the next most important is Runs (points) scored/Runs (points) surrendered, which correlates to W-L directly. The other stuff, of which OPS is most crucial, helps you understand how W-L records and RS records are achieved, but they're more fallible than the bottom line numbers are.

Nymr83 Sep 04 2005 09:54 AM

]I say forget stats and formulas and all that nonsense. At the end of the day, you either win or you lose. and when you ignore the stats and say, i dont know, play miguel cairo every day, you tend to lose more often. ]The other stuff, of which OPS is most crucial, helps you understand how W-L records and RS records are achieved, but they're more fallible than the bottom line numbers are. but the W/L record don't tell you anything about what you are missing. if you are 81-81 what does that tell you? if on the other hand you scored 650 runs and allowed 635 it tells you that you need some help scoring runs, not preventing them. but it still hasn't told you why you arent scoring runs. so you take a look and see that while your 3, 4, and 5 hitters all have respectable SLG% they have few RBIs, so you look at your top 2 and notice that they are getting on base at a combined rate of 31%! and now you've (likely) found your problem, and if you're smart you'll go out and address that instead of replacing perfectly good pitchers who have bad W-L records through no fault of their own but through horrible run support. my point is you need to go deeper to understand a team, here is another example: halfway through the season you have a team in first place, at 44-37 that has scored 50 less runs than it has allowed. the team in second, 42-39, has scored 50 more runs than it has allowed. who do you expect to win that division?

Bret Sabermetric Sep 04 2005 10:14 AM

Nymr83 wrote: [. if you are 81-81 what does that tell you? That you're not winning divisions much? You seem to want to argue that because there are exceptions, there are really no rules. But if you have a hard time breaking .500, it doesnt really make much sense to say, "well, we played much better than 81-81--look at our OPS, look at our BB/K ratio," yyybbb. Sure sometimes that does disprove something as essential as your W-L record, but it's a bad idea to assume that the W-L misrepresents the situation. It's who you are, and you need to accept that before you're ready to do anything.

Nymr83 Sep 04 2005 10:28 AM

you misunderstood. what i'm saing is your record tells you nothing about what needs improvement or what doesn't. you could squeek into the playoffs with a terrible run differential which will tell us that you had beter not rest on your laurels or you ain't making it back next year.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 04 2005 11:12 AM

]The bottom line, when it comes to an offense, is how many runs we score. And we've done a pretty good job of that. I mean, do you all SERIOUSLY think we would have won more games if our team OBP were 40 points higher but we scored the same number of runs? Of course not. Obviously getting on base is a component of scoring runs and runs count more. Just as obviously, 40 points fewer outs would result in more runs, not the same. What I am saying though, is we shouldn't be misled by this team's RS-RA gap considering we've had such a disparity in blowouts this year. The RS component was largely accomplished in five single games this year which we won by 11, 12 (twice), 13, and 14 runs. Take away the 5 biggest margin-of-victory games and the Mets have a 544-534 RS-RA edge on opponents, or a .509 WP% -- pretty much what we're looking at this morning. I realize that leaves 5 wins out there somewhere -- but I'd argue they are of the 4-3, 3-2, shutout variety. Generally over the course of the year freak blowouts tend to cancel one another out. But because our pitching has been consistently good, we've managed to avoid bad losses: Losing by 10 (once) and seven (five times).

smg58 Sep 04 2005 11:32 AM

I have a rules question on the Castro play. It's perfectly OK for a catcher to run after the ball and then make an appeal to first base? Castro would have made it to first if it had been called immediately, and judging from the replay, he had no reason to think that he didn't check his swing. As far as the more critical play... we can argue who the right person in that spot was, or that Hernandez was a bad matchup, but bringing in a call-up who had gotten unceremoniously dumped from his previous team to make his first appearance with you with the bases loaded and two out against one of the five best hitters in the league? ANYBODY else would have been a less arguable option.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 04 2005 11:39 AM

Yup. Not that this would have stopped me, but Cabrera's numbers vs. Hernandez are pretty sick.

Bret Sabermetric Sep 04 2005 11:47 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: . Just as obviously, 40 points fewer outs would result in more runs, not the same. This isn't obvious to me. I don't even understand the sentence.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 04 2005 12:00 PM

Rott's scenario said: Would you prefer a 40-point edge in OBP and the same number of runs. I meant to respond: a 40-point edge in OBP wouldn't result in the same number of runs. Sometimes when I argue OBP I like to express it in Outs, that's what I meant to do there (ineffectively ... sorry). I often think OBP could be a more effective and telling statistic, particularly among old-school writers and the slow-to-evolve, if it were re-named and re-stated as Out Percentage. a. Jose Reyes has a .310 OBP b. Jose Reyes makes an out 69% of the time he comes to bat I like b. Back to my other point: rpg all games 4.56 rpg minus 5 blowouts 4.18

Elster88 Sep 04 2005 01:14 PM

]What I am saying though, is we shouldn't be misled by this team's RS-RA gap considering we've had such a disparity in blowouts this year. The RS component was largely accomplished in five single games this year which we won by 11, 12 (twice), 13, and 14 runs. Take away the 5 biggest margin-of-victory games and the Mets have a 544-534 RS-RA edge on opponents, or a .509 WP% -- pretty much what we're looking at this morning. This is what I was trying to say, I just have no ability to say it as eloquently as JD. This is why you don't say "A new manager would have been the difference, just look at the difference we have in RS and RA." _____________________________ This post was under the designation 165) Jose Reyes

Nymr83 Sep 05 2005 02:09 AM

]Take away the 5 biggest margin-of-victory games and the Mets have a 544-534 RS-RA edge on opponents, or a .509 WP% -- pretty much what we're looking at this morning. if you're going to take away a team's 5 best games you to take away the 5 worst as well, which i believe would be 11, 7, 7, 7, 7?

Johnny Dickshot Sep 05 2005 10:57 AM

Worst marin of loss was 10, then 5 sevens. The reason I didn't want to take those games away because for us they were more or less normal games offensively.

Bret Sabermetric Sep 05 2005 11:33 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Worst marin of loss was ... somewhere around San Francisco? I see what you're doing, Dickshot, and I see how it makes some sense, but it smacks of cherry-picking to me. "See, if you don't count THIS loss, and you pretend THAT one got rained out, and THAT one never happened, then..." Not saying you're doing this, of course, but it's a terriblle practice to encourage, exactly the kind of thing pathetic, excuse-making losers do. To be extra-clear, I'm NOT calling you a pathetic, excuse-making loser. That's NOT. N-O-T, not. oe: I hear a lot of this crapola statswork during broadcasts: the most popular form of degraded cherrypicking excuse-making is "Piazza has gotten on base in 9 of his last fourteen games, not counting the two pinch-hitting experiences during that span." Yeah? So what's your point? That he stlll has a pulse?.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 05 2005 12:10 PM

I hope my point is clear: Some people can look at the sum total of runs scored and conclude we're a strong offensive team; I'm saying that most nights, we run an average-or-worse offense out there. THAT ought to be evident by looking at the players at 1B & 2B every night, and the fact that we rank 12th in OBP in the NL -- which is where we started.

Bret Sabermetric Sep 05 2005 12:24 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Ithe players at 1B & 2B every night. Yeah, but every team has a 7th and 8th spot hitter. Not every team bats them 2nd and 6th as WWSB does, which is another source of the problem. Johnny Dickshot wrote: and the fact that we rank 12th in OBP in the NL -- which is where we startedI. What I was trying to say before is that I'm sure there have been teams with the Mets OBP who scored a lot of runs--some because they were lucky, but some who had better power, some who played in a run-rich context, etc. Take Reyes, for example. There was some talk earlier this year that he might get away with a low OBP if he hit with unusual power for a leadoff batter, if he stole often and successfully, if he got on base through infielder's rushed throws, etc. Hasn't exactly worked out, and OBP is always desirable, but the Mets might have bbeen able to bear up under the burden of Reyes low OBP--if they don't have Cairo or Matsui batting behind him, if they have a first baseman who knew what that stick-thingy everybody uses is for, if they have a bullpen, etc. But you can't have mostly problems and still win, not that I've seen. (Actually, I saw 1973, when the Mets had nothing but problems and won, but that's quite rare.)

Johnny Dickshot Sep 05 2005 12:30 PM

Buh. Guys who hurt you in the lineup hurt you in the lineup. Cairo would be a drag on this team's offense wherever he hit in the order.

Bret Sabermetric Sep 05 2005 12:46 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Buh. Guys who hurt you in the lineup hurt you in the lineup. Cairo would be a drag on this team's offense wherever he hit in the order. Mostly true. But batting them 7 and 8 would over the season mean they'd get a few dozen fewer at-bats. That couldn't hurt.

Nymr83 Sep 05 2005 01:00 PM

you're both right. the only one that is wrong here is wee willie bat the yankee 2nd small balls.

Elster88 Sep 05 2005 04:13 PM

A two run output against a major league team is going to hurt us in the RS/RA department. _____________________________ This post was under the designation 164) Keith Miller