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="John Cougar Lunchbucket":vx4b3240]
Don't have exotic pets.[/quote:vx4b3240]
I'm not sure why they are even legal in CT, was there more of a story behind this (licensed animal trainer maybe?) or can any shmuck just decide they want an ape in their house?
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themetfairy
Feb 19 2009 03:20 PM
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="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3bfous0i]The whole monkey story is scary enough without all this.
The victim of the attack basically lost her whole face, the cops couldn;t tell whether she was a she or he.
Don't have exotic pets.[/quote:3bfous0i]
Agreed - it was simply gruesome. Not a joking matter.
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Methead
Feb 19 2009 04:47 PM
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="Benjamin Grimm":dx80pi4c]
She lost her nose, her eyes, and her jaw, according to the Daily News this morning.[/quote:dx80pi4c]
Holy shit.
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metirish
Feb 19 2009 06:23 PM
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Apparently that victim will be consulted on by the surgeon that did the first face transplant in the US.
Listening to the chimps owner I can't help but feel a sadness for her , she says Travis was like a son to her , like she gave birth to him. She seems like she needs a lot of help.
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metsmarathon
Feb 19 2009 08:56 PM
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so, bush = monkey, hilariously funny, and probably true.
obama = monkey, unfunny, racist, and protest worthy.
i'm so glad we've moved past treating people differently simply based on the color of their skin.
also, the joke in the cartoon is torturous. also unfunny. but, racist, and blatantly so?
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Edgy DC
Feb 19 2009 09:01 PM
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I don't think the monkey was meant to represent Obama.
I think maybe it represented Mohamed, but I'm not sure.
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holychicken
Feb 20 2009 07:15 AM
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While I do think that the mistake was unintentional, albeit stupid, as the monkey was just supposed to represent the stupidity of the stimulus bill, I think pretending that comparing a white president to a monkey is the same as comparing a black president to a monkey (and then shooting him) completely ignores the racial history of this country.
As for what happened to the lady, that really sucks. I can't imagine.
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Edgy DC
Feb 20 2009 07:22 AM
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But Obama isn't the author of the stimulus bill.
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TheOldMole
Feb 20 2009 07:34 AM
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Yeah, and no one on the right associates with him, just as no one on the right has ever heard of using "monkey" as a racially demeaning epithet.
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Edgy DC
Feb 20 2009 07:52 AM
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You really believe the meaning of this cartoon is that Obama is like a monkey because he's half black, and therefore disposeable because he's subhuman?
Can't it just be stupid crap?
(OE: Granted, that sheep cartoon shows he's capable of comparing a class of humans to beasts, but I still don't read this that way, and even that isn't about murder.)
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Benjamin Grimm
Feb 20 2009 09:28 AM
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I don't think the intent was to call Obama a monkey because he's black, but I don't think anyone should be surprised that it was interpreted that way.
The Post really should have anticipated the reaction and quashed the cartoon.
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themetfairy
Feb 20 2009 09:39 AM
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BG hit the nail on the head.
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metsmarathon
Feb 20 2009 11:18 AM
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="Edgy DC":1zng7xk8]I don't think the monkey was meant to represent Obama.
[/quote:1zng7xk8]
no, i don't think so either.
sometimes a monkey is just a monkey.
if we call all our congressmen raging chimpanzees, would anybody get offended?
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MFS62
Feb 20 2009 11:21 AM
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="metsmarathon
if we call all our congressmen raging chimpanzees, would anybody get offended? |
Probably the chimpanzees.
Later
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Edgy DC
Feb 20 2009 11:28 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 20 2009 11:38 AM
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I mean, you might as well ask the Post not to be stupid. I object to them every day. I don't know that I've spent more than $3.00 on them in my adult life.
I don't even associate the stimulus with Obama, but with a very white Congress.
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metsguyinmichigan
Feb 20 2009 11:37 AM
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="Benjamin Grimm":32pmn4bx]The Post really should have anticipated the reaction and quashed the cartoon.[/quote:32pmn4bx]
Are you kidding me? The Post LOVES the reaction. How many people are talking about the New York Post? How many people picked up a Post in the last couple days just to say "FY" to Al Sharpton?
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MFS62
Feb 20 2009 11:45 AM
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Speaking of champanzees, I didn't notice if we had a thread about the pet chimpanzee in Connecticut that attacked a woman and had to be shot by police.
A little explanation. Connecticut (I live there) is a state almost equally divided between Yankee fans and Red Sox fans. There are always brawls between the supporters of both teams.
Why did the chimp attack the woman?
The best I can figure out is that she was wearing a Red Sox hat.
Later
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Benjamin Grimm
Feb 20 2009 11:49 AM
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="metsguyinmichigan":um4fj1m5]="Benjamin Grimm":um4fj1m5]The Post really should have anticipated the reaction and quashed the cartoon.[/quote:um4fj1m5]
Are you kidding me? The Post LOVES the reaction. How many people are talking about the New York Post? How many people picked up a Post in the last couple days just to say "FY" to Al Sharpton?[/quote:um4fj1m5]
Well, yeah, but my point was it would be the <i>right</i> thing for the Post to do, not the typical thing.
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metsguyinmichigan
Feb 20 2009 12:07 PM
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="Benjamin Grimm":860z8nwt]="metsguyinmichigan":860z8nwt]="Benjamin Grimm":860z8nwt]The Post really should have anticipated the reaction and quashed the cartoon.[/quote:860z8nwt]
Are you kidding me? The Post LOVES the reaction. How many people are talking about the New York Post? How many people picked up a Post in the last couple days just to say "FY" to Al Sharpton?[/quote:860z8nwt]
Well, yeah, but my point was it would be the <i>right</i> thing for the Post to do, not the typical thing.[/quote:860z8nwt]
Good point!
:)
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metirish
Feb 20 2009 12:13 PM
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="MFS62":5x3cunrc]Speaking of champanzees, I didn't notice if we had a thread about the pet chimpanzee in Connecticut that attacked a woman and had to be shot by police.
A little explanation. Connecticut (I live there) is a state almost equally divided between Yankee fans and Red Sox fans. There are always brawls between the supporters of both teams.
Why did the chimp attack the woman?
The best I can figure out is that she was wearing a Red Sox hat.
Later[/quote:5x3cunrc]
Is this supposed to be funny?
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MFS62
Feb 20 2009 12:21 PM
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="metirish":3prqleub]
Is this supposed to be funny?[/quote:3prqleub]
Figuring a chimp to be a Yankee fan was meant to be funny. The rest of the situation isn't.
Later
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Kong76
Feb 20 2009 04:42 PM
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He wore it well ...
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Frayed Knot
Feb 21 2009 07:47 AM
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[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090220/ap_en_ot/obama_cartoons:38q6me83]Cartoonists treading lightly with Obama[/url:38q6me83]
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Edgy DC
Feb 21 2009 07:52 AM
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| ]"You have to deform someone facially in order to make a larger point about their character," Rauser said. "But that deformity reveals their inner truth and makes them look more like themselves." |
Well, it's what they do, but I don't think it's what they have to do.
I think, rather than illuminate any truths under the surface, that it can tend to feed tiresome narrowmindedness that Rich (above) may congratulate himself for as political engagement.
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TheOldMole
Feb 21 2009 03:05 PM
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Intent is a funny business. There are a lot of racist code words, and the whole point of a code word is its deniability. Your own circle will know what you mean, but if anyone from the outslde criticizes you, you can just say "What? There are people who call African-Americans monkeys? I never would have imagined such a thing."
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Edgy DC
Feb 21 2009 09:25 PM
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Sure, but (1) that's giving a lot more credit for subtlety than this guy seems cabable of, and (2) I still don't get from the guy who wrote the stimulus bill to Obama.
These things are, essentially attacks, of varying sublety, so people are supposed to get offended. But were people generally offended at a racial level before Sharpton suggested they should be?
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themetfairy
Feb 22 2009 06:52 AM
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I think this starts from the fact that the cartoon was making a joke about the chimpanzee attack, which is a heartbreaking story and in no way a joking matter.
The fact that they threw politics in on top of that just exacerbated the situation.
Once politics was a factor, it's not that big a leap to conclude that the Post was making a veiled reference to Obama. Whether that leap is justified or not, the Post already provided the high board for it.
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TheOldMole
Feb 22 2009 11:53 AM
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Edgy -- nah, both of those are easy, because the reverse is actually the case.
It takes no subtlety to use racist code words. Racists have been doing it for generations.
It takes a certain amount of subtlety to make a distinction between the actual author of the Democratic stimulus package and the most prominent figurehead of the Democratic administration. Do you really think conservs don't blame Obama for the stimulus package?
And yes, making fun of the real shot chimp is disgusting, too.
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Edgy DC
Feb 22 2009 03:10 PM
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="TheOldMole":1jguhakv]Do you really think conservs don't blame Obama for the stimulus package?[/quote:1jguhakv]
I don't think they think as one about it, but I don't think the typical person --- left, right, black, white --- sees a representative of the guy who wrote the stimulus package and thinks "they mean Obama." I certainly don't think conservatives as a group delight in the notion that black people are monkeys.
With respect to your brother, this is why I try and avoid editorial cartooning generally, because this sort of attack, whether that's Obama or not, does not help anything. No political dialogue is advanced by comparing your opponents --- whether he be black or white, the president or the largely unknown bureaucrats who authored the stimulus package --- to animals. Or to suggest they are disposeable.
So, I can agree with you that this is crap. But I think so much of what the <i>Post</i> --- and tabloids in general --- feed us is crap. Unhealthy and hateful. If you can't acknowledge the humanity of your opponent, you've got no further place in the discourse.
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TheOldMole
Feb 22 2009 09:11 PM
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I've been dismissed from the discourse?
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Centerfield
Feb 23 2009 09:46 AM
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Ben Grimm, as metfairy said, nailed it.
Regardless of whether a select group of individuals associate the stimulus bill with members of Congress, the general public consensus is that it was written and promoted by our President. By insinuating that the stimulus bill was written by the crazed chimp, it is completely forseeable that the punchline is that our President is a crazed and murderous chimpanzee that should be shot. Allowing such a cartoon to be printed is grossly irresponsible and ignores history of that type of comparison. The assassination undertones make it even more egregious.
Labeling blacks as primates, or sub-human, has been, and continues to be, justification for hate crimes and discrimination. Because of its history, it has become extremely hurtful. Certain stereotypes, the penny-pinching Jew, the border-jumping Latino, the broken-English Asian, cannot simply be written off as "harmless". In fact, they have been proven time and again to be precisely the opposite.
Comparing Bush, or any other non-black member of Congress to a chimpanzee is, simply stated, different. Calling Bush a chimpanzee is akin to calling an Asian a chimpanzee or making fun of frugal Latinos.
I realize there is a huge jump from a political cartoon to actual violence or discrimination, but it has been demonstrated time and again that people take their cues from seemingly insignificant events. Allowing such racially-charged cartoons to be printed can be seen as tacit approval of prejudice and hate.
Which is not to say Obama should be above satire or criticism. Make fun of his ears. Call him cheap or make fun of his English. Or even call him stupid. There are plenty of ways to make fun of him without resorting to hurtful, racially-charged themes.
And if that means people are treated differently because of the color of their skin, so be it. So if that means our mission statement must be amended, let me clarify it on behalf of all minorities:
We think that people should not be treated differently based upon skin color, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Except that we wish insensitive pricks everywhere would avoid making jokes based in the hurtful stereotypes, particular to any minority group, that have been the justification for violence and discrimination. But other than that everyone should be treated the same.
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Edgy DC
Feb 23 2009 09:57 AM
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="TheOldMole":1i55w8ra]I've been dismissed from the discourse?[/quote:1i55w8ra]
I can't dismiss anybody (as I'm hardly the chair), but I meant to show my contempt for the Post cartoonist, and certainly not you.
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Edgy DC
Mar 09 2009 08:20 AM
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<a href="http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/09/naacp-vs-free-speech/" target="blank">No room for disagreement at the NAACP</a>.
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metirish
Mar 09 2009 09:17 AM
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Good article , a very interesting read and Meyers project in city schools sounds quite interesting.
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Rockin' Doc
Mar 09 2009 04:48 PM
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It's a sad day when Al Sharpton is considered a leading voice in the quest against racism. The NAACP appears to be adopting a policy in which the only opinion that matters, or can even be voiced, is that which the leadership endorses.
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<br><br><br><I>(Merged from Cartoon, 2/19/2009</i>)
