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Eek, Steroids and Piazza

G-Fafif Mar 24 2009 03:20 PM

Pearlman "revelations" [url=http://deadspin.com/5180679/mike-piazza-the-back-acne-was-the-least-of-it]here[/url]. Anyone particularly surprised? Relevant passage: ] As the hundreds of major league ballplayers who turned to performance-enhancing drugs throughout the 1990s did their absolute best to keep the media at arm's length, Piazza took the opposite approach. According to several sources, when the subject of performance enhancing was broached with reporters he especially trusted, Piazza fessed up. "Sure, I use," he told one. "But in limited doses, and not all that often." (Piazza has denied using performance-enhancing drugs, but there has always been speculation.) Whether or not it was Piazza's intent, the tactic was brilliant: By letting the media know, of the record, Piazza made the information that much harder to report. Writers saw his bulging muscles, his acne-covered back. They certainly heard the under-the-breath comments from other major league players, some who considered Piazza's success to be 100 percent chemically delivered. "He's a guy who did it, and everybody knows it," says Reggie Jefferson, the longtime major league first baseman. "It's amazing how all these names, like Roger Clemens, are brought up, yet Mike Piazza goes untouched." "There was nothing more obvious than Mike on steroids," says another major league veteran who played against Piazza for years. "Everyone talked about it, everyone knew it. Guys on my team, guys on the Mets. A lot of us came up playing against Mike, so we knew what he looked like back in the day. Frankly, he sucked on the field. Just sucked. After his body changed, he was entirely different. 'Power from nowhere,' we called it." When asked, on a scale of 1 to 10, to grade the odds that Piazza had used performance enhancers, the player doesn't pause. "A 12," he says. "Maybe a 13."

G-Fafif Mar 24 2009 03:24 PM

So he confessed he used in limited doses but he denied using? And no one to whom he confessed, reporters that is, had said anything. But Reggie Jefferson is The Big Source? I'm numb to this issue. This is not "say it ain't so, Mike" in my eyes. If it happened, it happened. He wasn't a dick during his career, I hope he doesn't suffer long-term effects and I'm still glad he played for my team.

metsmarathon Mar 24 2009 03:32 PM

i always thought that piazza had admitted to using steroids way back when, either in college or the minors, and had claimed not to have liked them, and therefore didn't continue to use. or did i hallucinate that memory? at the time i heard it, i don't think it raised too many eyebrows, and certainly brought about no hand-wringing. but i could be mistaken, surely.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 24 2009 03:33 PM

Wait... hasn't he already been "vindicated?"

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 24 2009 04:30 PM

Least surprising thing I ever heard, but the conflation of steroids and ability is a path I wish this didn't reinforce.

Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 06:26 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Mar 25 2009 09:01 AM

1) Certainly not surprising, I sure would have bet against Mike if I had to put my money down. Have to admit, though, part of me wanted it not to be true. Part of me wants a lot of childish things. 2) I realize this comes up in Pearlman's investigation of Clemens, but I just wish guys came out with cleaner stories when they do this. If you're going to expose a guy, get your duckies in a row. Reporters got the story from him "off the record"? Is one of them on the record now? 3) Reggie Jefferson --- never played a game with Piazza, never played one against him as far as a I can tell. You've got to follow that deeper. "Everybody" knew it? Name names. Who knew it and how did they know it? I can say that everybody knew Clemens was juicing. I'd be right, but I'd be a lousy source. 4) Bacne, schmacne. That makes you suspicious? Good. Start asking questions (and not of Reggie Jefferson). Don't cite it as damning evidence six years later. I certainly am not mad at Pearlman for pursuing a story against a Met hero, but I'd hate to see these guys be as sloppy about outing these guys in 2009 as they were sloppy about not outing them in 1999.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 24 2009 07:06 PM

="Edgy DC":168blj3u] I realize this comes up in Pearlman's investigation of Clemens, I just wish guys came out with cleaner stories when they do this. If you're going to expose a guy, get your duckies in a row. Reporters got the story from him "off the record"? Is one of them on the record now? "Everybody" knew it? Name names. Who knew it and how did they know it? I can say that everybody knew Clemens was juicing. I'd be right, but I'd be a lousy source. I certainly am not mad at Pearlman for pursuing a story against a Met hero, but I'd hate to see these guys be as sloppy about outing these guys in 2009 as they were sloppy about not outing them in 1999.[/quote:168blj3u] None of the sources-- whether for fear of identifying themselves, or because they weren't actually there-- cops to being one of those in the room, or otherwise having firsthand knowledge of actual PED use (a la Radomski and Clemens). If I repeat something that someone else heard from someone, is that hear-hearsay? (And how do I make it triple-hearsay? I'm not sure, but I think it probably involves teh internets.) Seriously, why is it that so many reporters who are otherwise good about nailing down details and responsible sourcing-- Pearlman may be full of piss and vin, but he's generally spot-on-- have been so sloppy about stories on PED use? Eh. Whatever. I paid my money, and applauded some thrilling home runs-- I get no less retrospective buzz from 9/21 or the 10-run inning capper for Pearlman's book having been written. metsguyinmichigan Mar 24 2009 07:36 PM Pearlman is another guy who makes money writing bad things about the Mets. Like the Sith, there is always a master (Klapisch) and an apprentice. :) metsmarathon Mar 24 2009 07:41 PM ]BASEBALL; Andro Hangs in a Quiet Limbo By BILL PENNINGTON and JACK CURRY Published: Sunday, July 11, 1999 ...Baseball has not banned or discouraged the use of androstenedione, a product that, while sold legally over the counter and over the Internet in the United States, is banned by the National Football League, the National Collegiate Athletic Association and the International Olympic Committee as a performance-enhancing and potentially harmful drug. Baseball's top officials have stuck to their position that they will neither condone nor discourage use of the supplement until the sport's scientific study of its effects is completed. ...Curiosity and confusion about andro, as well as its use, exists throughout major league clubhouses a year after McGwire set off both outbursts of outrage from his detractors and spirited defenses from his supporters. Mike Piazza of the Mets said he tried andro several years ago, but found it ''overrated'' and gave it up. Tony Gwynn of the Padres said andro is talked about regularly, and used by some. ''We have discussions about this all the time,'' Gwynn said. ''What if it's the last year of your contract and you feel you're not playing well? With the kind of money out there, could creatine or andro or steroids make a difference in your play? And if you only take them one year to prolong your career, would it really be dangerous to your health?''... and a later article... ]BASEBALL; Steroid Use Becomes a Topic of Discussion in Clubhouses By RAFAEL HERMOSO and TYLER KEPNER Published: Thursday, May 30, 2002 ...Piazza has said he briefly used androstenedione early in his career, stopping when he did not see a drastic change in his muscle mass. He said he had never used steroids because ''I hit the ball as far in high school as I do now.'' ...Piazza said the use of another drug, amphetamines, has been ''going on for decades'' in the majors. well, later in that same article, jason giambi and mo vaughn both come out agasint steroid use in basesall, so.. um.. yeah... piazza had already admitted, and was known, to have used andro, which is considered a steroid by many in the know, but was not considered as such by baseball at the time, and was legal. at the time of piazza's admission (as early as 1999, but perhaps earlier) there was no crying about whether or not his future candidacy for hte hall of fame should be in jeopardy. nor mac's either, necessarily. so i'm not really sure what my point is. i guess its that we shouldn't be shocked that piazza could've taken ped's, as he admitted as such. he just didnt admit to having broken the law to do so, nor did he admit to continuing to take them for an extended period in his career. so i guess if he's lying about that... then... uh.. i guess... to hell with him? what level of PED use should be enough to taint a player's career? if we take a zero tolerance policy, then any new revelations shouldn't really affect piazza, as his own admissions should exempt him. or does it only matter if the PED's were illegal at the time? or if the player lied about it? and of course, if those PED's are amphetamines, then we just don't give a rat's ass. SteveJRogers Mar 24 2009 07:47 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":2o8gh15o]Pearlman is another guy who makes money writing bad things about the Mets. Like the Sith, there is always a master (Klapisch) and an apprentice. :)[/quote:2o8gh15o] His book on the 1986 team was quite good. It wasn't the hatchet job that Klapish and Harper did. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 07:47 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 24 2009 08:09 PM I think that's a little unfairly malignant. Whle he is indeed making money doing his job, I don't think he's got his eye on anybody's colors in particular. He made his name exposing Rocker. He has since authored books investigating the case against Bonds and Clemens. This is information that has come out of the latter book. Yeah, <i>The Bad Guys Won</i> exposes a lot, but it's not like it wasn't a story that needed telling or that he was working a hit job from conjecture like <i>The Worst Team Money Could Buy</i> --- which too often intentionally confused competitive failure with moral failure. <i>TBGW</i>, in fact, explicity does the opposite. I just think he's sloppy here. And I think that's kind of lousy. Once upon a time, it was part of the zeitgeist to protect these guys, and, in their sloppy reporting, they did. Now the zeitgeist has changed. But, too often, the sloppiness has not. metirish Mar 24 2009 07:48 PM I've no beef with Pearlman , loved his 86 book. Fman99 Mar 24 2009 08:09 PM Until the MLB players union cleans its own house, I will continue to believe that every player has used steriods. Skinny? Injured a lot? Denied it in the press? Don't care. It's their own fault -- they don't weed out the users, I will just assume they all use. It's easier than trying to discern which scumbag washout's rumors to believe or not believe. That is all I have to say about that. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 24 2009 08:26 PM My head hurts from all the secondhand moralizin'. Would ibuprofen use disqualify me from Song Parody Contest eligibility? smg58 Mar 25 2009 08:22 AM So we all knew that Piazza has been suspected of using steroids by a bunch of people, and Pearlman's big revelation essentially boils down to Piazza being suspected of using steroids by a bunch of people. Until a reporter with a name says Piazza told him something, this doesn't really add anything. If back acne is really a common symptom of steroids use, then the reporters who keep bringing it up about Piazza should mention who else they saw with this condition. They can't pretend it was just him. I see no value in singling out the good players. If 103 players tested positive in 2003, either leak all of them or none of them. There's plenty of evidence that steroids made good players out of average ones, great players out of good ones, and in the case of Bonds and A-Rod, supermen out of players who likely would have had Hall of Fame careers regardless. There's no evidence that steroids could make a superstar out of a minor leaguer. And here we have yet another writer implying that Piazza doesn't even smell the majors without the juice. Piazza may well be guilty, but that isn't fair. dinosaur jesus Mar 25 2009 08:44 AM You know, I'm all for full disclosure and getting to the truth about the steroids era. But somehow I really don't want to know the name of every major league player with back acne. metirish Mar 25 2009 09:28 AM Back acne is one thing but before I'm convinced of anything I would like to know if he's balls were shriveled , did any of the beat writers ever notice his nuts? John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 25 2009 09:31 AM ="metirish":3c1e1pxk]Back acne is one thing but before I'm convinced of anything I would like to know if he's balls were shriveled , did any of the beat writers ever notice his nuts?[/quote:3c1e1pxk] I am begging you to submit that question to Adam Rubin's next live chat. metirish Mar 25 2009 09:38 AM I'll submit it but I think before they would accept it it needs to be polished up a bit. Edgy DC Mar 25 2009 09:42 AM I'm not volunteering for any polishing-Piazza's-balls duty. Oh there was a time when a younger me might have said yes... TheOldMole Mar 25 2009 11:41 AM A friend of mine who was a baseball writer back in the day told me that Yogi Berra was the best-hung athlete he ever saw. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 25 2009 11:42 AM ="Edgy DC":xpkhpa1f]I'm not volunteering for any polishing-Piazza's-balls duty. Oh there was a time when a younger me might have said yes...[/quote:xpkhpa1f] Hey! That would've made you quite the ball-boy! Beats being Moises Alou's towel guy! Tip your waitstaff/Try the veal piccata metirish Mar 25 2009 12:01 PM ="TheOldMole":3er9cvjw]A friend of mine who was a baseball writer back in the day told me that Yogi Berra was the best-hung athlete he ever saw.[/quote:3er9cvjw] Some great posting here today. Yogi must have had a yogism for being hung like that. dinosaur jesus Mar 25 2009 12:15 PM ="metirish":3nsi0yhk] ="TheOldMole":3nsi0yhk]A friend of mine who was a baseball writer back in the day told me that Yogi Berra was the best-hung athlete he ever saw.[/quote:3nsi0yhk] Some great posting here today. Yogi must have had a yogism for being hung like that.[/quote:3nsi0yhk] As I recall, according to David Halberstam it was the late Johnny Blanchard who set the standard in the Yankee clubhouse. TransMonk Mar 25 2009 12:23 PM ="metirish":2sh23i0j] ="TheOldMole":2sh23i0j]A friend of mine who was a baseball writer back in the day told me that Yogi Berra was the best-hung athlete he ever saw.[/quote:2sh23i0j] Some great posting here today. Yogi must have had a yogism for being hung like that.[/quote:2sh23i0j] "Bill Dickey is learning me his experience." G-Fafif Mar 25 2009 12:38 PM ="TheOldMole":300nag1k]A friend of mine who was a baseball writer back in the day told me that Yogi Berra was the best-hung athlete he ever saw.[/quote:300nag1k] Imagine your agent taking that stat to arbitration. MFS62 Mar 25 2009 12:46 PM I worked with a guy who was a long time friend of MArty Appell. Marty worked in the YAnkee PR office for many years. My friend told me that not all the members on those "great" Yankee teams were great. Marty told my friend that Horace Clarke had severe shortcomings. Later Benjamin Grimm Mar 25 2009 12:49 PM This should be the "Too Much Information" thread. Edgy DC Mar 25 2009 12:53 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 25 2009 09:08 PM I think it should be the "Guys I know who tell me about other guys dicks" thread. Fman99 Mar 25 2009 08:46 PM Cut. Print. Gay. MFS62 Mar 27 2009 12:53 PM Back to Piazza. IIRC he had a "personal trainer" living with him in Spring Training a few years ago. He said the guy prepared meatless meals and "protein shakes". Y'mean that was just a sham? A coverup? Horrors! Later Benjamin Grimm Mar 27 2009 01:06 PM Are you implying that the "trainer" was a "boyfriend?" Time for another press conference! MFS62 Mar 27 2009 01:31 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":3uuccp5b]Are you implying that the "trainer" was a "boyfriend?" Time for another press conference![/quote:3uuccp5b] No! We're talking the stories about Mike on steroids here. Nothing else intended. Mike is married to a hottie. Those rumors about his sexuality were answered IMO. (Or should I say they have been put to bed?) Later LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 27 2009 01:51 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 27 2009 03:17 PM http://www.babychums.com/?p=741 Also... he's two times a daddy, so there goes the Playmate-as-beard rumor; he had to have shut the eyes and come into home standing up at least twice. If one of the kids grows up to have a biblical-scale case of bacne, does that help clear Pops? Benjamin Grimm Mar 27 2009 01:54 PM <img src="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedailymirror/images/2007/10/21/1955_1109_rock_hudson_cake.jpg" width="368" height="467">