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Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

themetfairy Apr 06 2009 05:02 PM

In voting for today's game, don't forget Ryan Church's great catch that led to a double play. That was a game complexion changer.

metsmarathon Apr 06 2009 05:24 PM

i like when this thread is used to help use gameday watchers identify drink-worthy defensive plays. thanks!

themetfairy Apr 06 2009 05:30 PM

Any time :)

Kong76 Apr 06 2009 05:47 PM

It was a nice catch, a nice miss and recovery for an out is more like it. I ain't rewarding Church for bad base running, you can't get doubled up there with the action in your plain sight in a close game.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 06 2009 06:08 PM

I am going to be away (on a short vacation to New Orleans) from Wednesday to Monday, so there won't be any Schaefer tallying for a while. Please keep starting the threads after each game, and I'll start posting results next Tuesday after I return. Please be sure to finish all voting for the entire Cincinnati series by the end of the day on Monday, April 13. Oh, and LeiterFasterStrongerWagnerMookieQuickerShamsky, you awarded 11 points for the game of April 6. Please edit when you get a chance. Thanks!

Edgy DC Apr 06 2009 09:18 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 07 2009 08:50 AM

OK, I'm a rare guy who didn't vote Santana PotG, but a short workday and stranding a whole bunch of the guys on the bases when he batted really strained the old pen.

Kong76 Apr 07 2009 01:20 AM

I try not to make it too laborious. In a game like today, starting pitcher got us to point a, the pen got us to point b, c, and d and most of the e only came from one guy. I'm almost afraid to ask how Wright gets 0.17 and why not 0.19 or 0.14?

Edgy DC Apr 07 2009 07:38 AM

m.e.t.b.o.t. hears my cry.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 07 2009 07:49 AM

Was Rodriguez' inning really that much more valuable than the innings pitched by Putz and Green?

themetfairy Apr 07 2009 08:08 AM

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":o238bbtp]Was Rodriguez' inning really that much more valuable than the innings pitched by Putz and Green?[/quote:o238bbtp] Not to me it wasn't.

metirish Apr 07 2009 08:11 AM

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":1qd8f7z4]Was Rodriguez' inning really that much more valuable than the innings pitched by Putz and Green?[/quote:1qd8f7z4] His gyrations after the save were worth at least a half a point.

Kong76 Apr 07 2009 08:28 AM

EDC: m.e.t.b.o.t. hears my cry <<< He didn't even give Wright .01!

Edgy DC Apr 07 2009 08:52 AM

My friends, I'm going to tell you what I told all those folks up in arms about the AIG bonuses (grumble... grumble...) --- it's not ain't about the right side of the decimal, but the left.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 07 2009 08:57 AM

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":mrh1vyj5]Was Rodriguez' inning really that much more valuable than the innings pitched by Putz and Green?[/quote:mrh1vyj5] Not in my book. Now if he came in with the bases loaded and nobody out, for example, and preserved the win under those conditions, that would be another story.

Edgy DC Apr 07 2009 09:05 AM

Are we talking about m.e.t.b.o.t.'s scoring? Well, I hope the little creature shows up to defend his work. Rodriguez got e got 19.9% more points than Green, and 31.0% more than Putz. (Merged from m.e.t.b.o.t. scoring, 4/7/2009)

batmagadanleadoff Apr 07 2009 09:08 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":1zmvxycc]Are we talking about m.e.t.b.o.t.'s scoring? Well, I hope the little creature shows up to defend his work. Rodriguez got e got 19.9% more points than Green, and 31.0% more than Putz.[/quote:1zmvxycc] And more than twice as much as Santana. (Merged from m.e.t.b.o.t. scoring, 4/7/2009)

Gwreck Apr 07 2009 09:08 AM

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":3u8hvq6y]Was Rodriguez' inning really that much more valuable than the innings pitched by Putz and Green?[/quote:3u8hvq6y] Putz' inning should be given the exact same value as Rodriguez.' Green should get more than either of them.

Edgy DC Apr 07 2009 09:11 AM

[quote="Gwreck":w5o6yw75][quote="Benjamin Grimm":w5o6yw75]Was Rodriguez' inning really that much more valuable than the innings pitched by Putz and Green?[/quote:w5o6yw75] Putz' inning should be given the exact same value as Rodriguez.' Green should get more than either of them.[/quote:w5o6yw75] I think history shows that outs in the ninth are worth more than outs in the seventh or eighth, and the seventh and eighth worth more than earlier innings, the score and such being equal.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 07 2009 09:14 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":2ujk2ill][quote="Gwreck":2ujk2ill][quote="Benjamin Grimm":2ujk2ill]Was Rodriguez' inning really that much more valuable than the innings pitched by Putz and Green?[/quote:2ujk2ill] Putz' inning should be given the exact same value as Rodriguez.' Green should get more than either of them.[/quote:2ujk2ill] I think history shows that outs in the ninth are worth more than outs in the seventh or eighth, and the seventh and eighth worth more than earlier innings, the score and such being equal.[/quote:2ujk2ill] That's probably because a run scored in the ninth is worth more than a run scored in an earlier inning. (Not.) Didn't we have this debate last season? P.S. The link to the m.e.t.b.o.t. split thread isn't working.

Edgy DC Apr 07 2009 09:15 AM

Yes we did. (I pulled two posts out of the PotG thread and stuck them here. It worked.)

TheOldMole Apr 07 2009 09:17 AM

After Rodriguez' inning, the game was over and the Mets had won.

Edgy DC Apr 07 2009 09:24 AM

And that's key. According to the win expectancy finder (using data from 2006, the most recent year available), a home team coming to bat in the eighth, down by a run, has a 31.1% chance of winning. If they come up empty in that inning, that percentage drops to 18.1%. The pitcher and any contributing fielders for the visiting team that inning have knocked 13% off that number. Good for them. The home team coming to bat in the ninth, down by a run, has a 21.9% chance of winning. If they come up empty in that inning, that percentage drops to 0.0%. They've lost. The pitcher and any contributing fielders for the visiting team that inning have knocked 21.9% off that number. Good for them.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 07 2009 09:36 AM

But is "Win Expectancy" the best way to assess the value of a relief inning? According to WE, a relief pitcher who is asked to preserve a four run lead in the ninth inning gets the same credit whether he strikes out the side or allows (in this order) three HR's, three walks, and then three line outs to the warning track. (OE -- three deep lineouts where some Ramon Castro type player, but on crutches, was the runner on third). And that's provided you credit the entire percentage to the relief pitcher, as if he and no other teammate should get credit for preserving the lead in the last inning. Win Expectancy combines the contributions of the entire team. Here, we're trying to isolate (in this example) the relief pitchers' input. The Win Expectancy entering the last of the ninth is based on dozens of events that occurred before K-Rod entered the game.

Edgy DC Apr 07 2009 09:48 AM

Well, I said that much credit goes to the "pitcher and any contributing fielders." If the pitcher does almost all the work by fanning the side (with a slight assist to the catcher for calling the pitches and stopping the ball), so much more love for him. But I don't think that's what we're talking about here. We're talking about the distinction of the value of different innings. I say the numbers show the ninth is worth more. And if the dominance argument is the issue in asking that Putz get as much credit as Rodriguez, and Green more, I don't think Putz (who walked a man) and Green (who fanned nobody) particularly distinguished themselves more than Rodriguez did.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 07 2009 10:00 AM

I pumped Green a little extra because of that extra 1/3 where he relieved Johan, and stranded the only inherited runner (tying run) the pen saw yesterday.

cooby Apr 07 2009 10:13 AM

What about the NL west? sorry wrong thread

m.e.t.b.o.t. Apr 07 2009 11:15 AM

m.e.t.b.o.t. is programmed to look only at deterministic results pertaining to the winning and losing of a baseball game. to m.e.t.b.o.t. a baseball hit weakly by a human batter carries the same weight as if that same human batter hit a line drive off the top of the fence, provided in each instance the batter advanced the same number of bases and the runners, if any, advanced the same number of bases. the genius behind the humble sprocket-and-gear-based programming of m.e.t.b.o.t. are the mantras, oft repeated by human observers of baseball, that "a hit is as good as a walk," and "its a line drive in the box score." m.e.t.b.o.t. hopes that the quotations are used properly. m.e.t.b.o.t. has been upgraded with a contextual quoting routine, but to date the code has gone untested. as a pitcher, metropolitan starting pitcher johan santana contributed +0.192 WPA towards the eventual outcome of the game. however, as a batter, metropolitan starting pitcher johan santana contributed -0.104 WPA, for a net of only +0.088 WPA. m.e.t.b.o.t. often notices that starting pitchers in the national league detract significantly from their ability to win baseball games through their inability to contribute positively as a batter. metropolitan third baseman david wright contributed -.055 WPA in his first plate appearance, -.012 in his second plate appearance, +.027 in his third plate appearance, +.009 in his fourth plate appearance, and +.019 in his final plate appearance. however, david wright also contributed -.032 WPA in getting picked off. his total contribution was -.044 WPA. m.e.t.b.o.t. is not programmed to award positive schaeffer votes to negative WPA contributions.

Edgy DC Apr 07 2009 11:22 AM

That's my b.o.t. Whatever you do, don't hit that little button on the left side of his belly.

cooby Apr 07 2009 11:43 AM

m.e.t.b.o.t., do you have, like, a macro that does that or do you have to type it out every time?

Fman99 Apr 07 2009 11:46 AM

m.e.t.b.o.t. rules. I'd like to buy him a beer, or a can of oil or a battery or whatever.

Gwreck Apr 07 2009 11:56 AM

What does m.e.t.b.o.t calculate as David Wright's fielding contribution (including a nice play in the 8th inning that could've been a double instead of an out if a lesser player had been at 3rd)?

m.e.t.b.o.t. Apr 07 2009 01:00 PM

m.e.t.b.o.t. is not properly articulated to allow for typing. internal to m.e.t.b.o.t. is a complicated system of miniature armatures and levers which actuate tiny magnets. the movement of these magnets in the presence of an electrical current creates a hall effect, which can be detected and interpreted as a data stream. in order to communicate with human participants on an electronic message board, m.e.t.b.o.t. must be placed in the vicinity of a USB cable, and wound up. the signals resulting from the internal workings of m.e.t.b.o.t. are then translated into a format appropriate for human interpretation and transmitted to the cranepool forum. m.e.t.b.o.t. only has this rudimentary level of data pertaining to the ability of m.e.t.b.o.t. to communicate electronically. m.e.t.b.o.t. has very limited memory capability, as would be expected from a tiny spring-wound contraption, and is not programmed with the ability to interpret complex mechanical structures. m.e.t.b.o.t. has determined through observation of humans that humans have similarly rudimentary understandings of their own inner workings, specifically pertaining to the ability to receive, process, and transmit data. for each character presented on screen, m.e.t.b.o.t. articulates at least one magnet-bearing armature. m.e.t.b.o.t. does not take shortcuts, and is prone to taking what humans are observed to describe as "the scenic route." m.e.t.b.o.t. is not programmed to quantify defensive value. m.e.t.b.o.t. is capable of perceiving that defense may have some contribution towards winning baseball games, but is not currently aware of any algorithms which calculate its value in terms of the additive probability of winning a baseball game. similarly, m.e.t.b.o.t. is not aware of any algorithms which are capable of differentiating the contribution made by the pitcher and by the fielder(s) for a given batted ball in terms of the additive probability of winning a baseball game.

cooby Apr 07 2009 01:02 PM

I guess he told me!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 07 2009 01:51 PM

[quote="m.e.t.b.o.t.":309q34ya] m.e.t.b.o.t. is not programmed to quantify defensive value. m.e.t.b.o.t. is capable of perceiving that defense may have some contribution towards winning baseball games, but is not currently aware of any algorithms which calculate its value in terms of the additive probability of winning a baseball game. similarly, m.e.t.b.o.t. is not aware of any algorithms which are capable of differentiating the contribution made by the pitcher and by the fielder(s) for a given batted ball in terms of the additive probability of winning a baseball game.[/quote:309q34ya] So this is the "scenic route" way of saying b.o.t., baseball-valuation-wise, is more Davey Johnson than Gil Hodges?

themetfairy Apr 08 2009 09:28 PM

GYC - you voted twice in the 4/8 thread, with different numbers in the two posts. You need to erase one of them. ON EDIT - thanks for fixing that.

GYC Apr 08 2009 10:27 PM

[quote="themetfairy":24istlw4]GYC - you voted twice in the 4/8 thread, with different numbers in the two posts. You need to erase one of them. ON EDIT - thanks for fixing that.[/quote:24istlw4] They were actually the same numbers, but I hadn't put them in my spreadsheet yet and reorganized in alphabetical order. Sorry, I'm a nerd. And I've learned a few more shortcuts in Excel lately, so I'm getting dorkier with how I keep the stats.

Edgy DC Apr 09 2009 05:56 AM

LeiterWagner: in the voting thread, we can't refer to the players by their nicknames. Ben Grimm's got a machine that gobbles up the votes and it won't understand "K-Rod."

MFS62 Apr 09 2009 06:24 AM

Is it possible to assign a minus one point to the first base ump who apparently forgot about the "automatic" call? Later

themetfairy Apr 09 2009 06:36 AM

[quote="MFS62":2du3m4y2]Is it possible to assign a minus one point to the first base ump who apparently forgot about the "automatic" call? [/quote:2du3m4y2] You know full well the answer is no. No negative numbers are allowed in the Schaefer voting - that's a longstanding rule. And one only votes for Mets players.

Gwreck Apr 09 2009 08:21 AM

I'm somewhat surprised to see people leave Rodriguez off their ballots for Wednesday's game. He allowed no runs while preserving the victory; required no special defensive plays to get there, and worked around a bad fielding error/bad call by the umpire.

themetfairy Apr 09 2009 08:33 AM

[quote="Gwreck":1mb2vzom]I'm somewhat surprised to see people leave Rodriguez off their ballots for Wednesday's game. He allowed no runs while preserving the victory; required no special defensive plays to get there, and worked around a bad fielding error/bad call by the umpire.[/quote:1mb2vzom] I'm glad that he got himself out of trouble, but he also got himself into trouble in the first place. Plus I wanted to give more suds to the RBI men.

Gwreck Apr 09 2009 08:35 AM

Isn't that like saying "I'm glad he hit a double, but he shouldn't have gotten himself into an 0-2 count before doing so?"

Edgy DC Apr 09 2009 08:39 AM

He also had to get through a four-out inning.

Frayed Knot Apr 09 2009 08:39 AM

I feel pretty confident in saying that no subject pops up in as many discussions in the PotG thread than that of how to (or even if to) award the closer.

metirish Apr 09 2009 09:01 AM

Rodriguez also needed to negotiate what might have been a bad call on the Delgado play.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 09 2009 09:06 AM

[quote="batmagadanleadoff":1a7yew1q]But is "Win Expectancy" the best way to assess the value of a relief inning? According to WE, a relief pitcher who is asked to preserve a four run lead in the ninth inning gets the same credit whether he strikes out the side or allows (in this order) three HR's, three walks, and then three line outs to the warning track. (OE -- three deep lineouts where some Ramon Castro type player, but on crutches, was the runner on third).[/quote:1a7yew1q] [quote="m.e.t.b.o.t.":1a7yew1q]m.e.t.b.o.t. is programmed to look only at deterministic results pertaining to the winning and losing of a baseball game. to m.e.t.b.o.t. a baseball hit weakly by a human batter carries the same weight as if that same human batter hit a line drive off the top of the fence, provided in each instance the batter advanced the same number of bases and the runners, if any, advanced the same number of bases.[/quote:1a7yew1q] Win Expectancy (assuming WE is the best way to award Schaefer points, an idea I would disagree with) might justify awarding the same credit to a pitcher who gets the out, whether by strikeout or 415 foot flyout, but ignores the three HR's and three walks allowed in my hypothetical. Also, WE percentages are, presumably, based on thousands and thousands of game situations, smoothed out to calculate values for average innings and at-bats. But I'm awarding Schaefer points based on events in a specific Met game I just finished watching -- still fresh in my memory in all of its nuances and subtleties. So why should I ignore the uniqueness of that contest and instead, treat the game as a statistically smoothed out composite? I'm not analyzing reams of game data -- just one game. Why do I need to automatically pretend that in this particular game, the ninth inning is tougher on the Met pitcher? Perhaps, in the specific game at hand, the eighth inning pitcher faces the middle of the order and the ninth inning "closer" (groan) inherits the bottom. WE doesn't account for specific batter-pitcher matchups. WE is a neat little toy. But I wonder about its usefulness in awarding Schafer points.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 09 2009 09:08 AM

Maybe. But I think Pelf hasn't gotten enough love here, myself. As agonizing as the first inning was, he pulled himself together and proceeded to get more efficient each inning (going 17, 14, and 12 in his last three). If the first hadn't been quite as pitch-heavy, we could have seen him go into the seventh.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 09 2009 09:16 AM

Plus his first inning was extended by the lazy fielding behind him. But no fair way to divide 10 points each time since every game is different.

themetfairy Apr 09 2009 10:04 AM

[quote="Gwreck":3m94glxf]Isn't that like saying "I'm glad he hit a double, but he shouldn't have gotten himself into an 0-2 count before doing so?"[/quote:3m94glxf] No. That analogy would be that I'm glad he got the strikeout, but he shouldn't have gone 3-0 on the guy. Trust me - during the course of a 162 game season, I don't cheat the pitchers. But in light of everyone else's performances and the 10-point cap, I chose to distribute my beer to other guys.

Gwreck Apr 09 2009 10:40 AM

Eh, I agree it was a poor analogy but penalizing the pitcher for putting a runner (or runners) on without any of them scoring -- and while still finishing the inning -- seems silly.

themetfairy Apr 09 2009 10:41 AM

The failure to reward a mediocre performance isn't the same as penalizing him for it. I just didn't see it as beer-worthy under the totality of the circumstances. Other guys deserved the suds more, IMO.

Rockin' Doc Apr 11 2009 09:07 AM

I would like to take this opportunity to request that none of the polls be closed and tabulated until Monday afternoon, if possible. That would allow some of us (me) that are traveling for the holiday weekend to vote when we return home. I have very limited internet access this weekend. More importantly, I desire to use the time I have visiting with relatives that I get to see far too infrequently due to the mileage that seperates us and our busy family lives. Thank you and I wish everyone a joyful and peaceful Easter weekend.

themetfairy Apr 11 2009 09:25 AM

[quote="Rockin' Doc"]I would like to take this opportunity to request that none of the polls be closed and tabulated until Monday afternoon, if possible. That would allow some of us (me) that are traveling for the holiday weekend to vote when we return home. I have very limited internet access this weekend. More importantly, I desire to use the time I have visiting with relatives that I get to see far too infrequently due to the mileage that seperates us and our busy family lives. Thank you and I wish everyone a joyful and peaceful Easter weekend.

Not an issue, Doc. This is what BG posted the other day -

I am going to be away (on a short vacation to New Orleans) from Wednesday to Monday, so there won't be any Schaefer tallying for a while. Please keep starting the threads after each game, and I'll start posting results next Tuesday after I return. Please be sure to finish all voting for the entire Cincinnati series by the end of the day on Monday, April 13.

MFS62 Apr 11 2009 09:31 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 11 2009 09:37 AM

[quote="themetfairy":1y35zmap][quote="MFS62":1y35zmap]Is it possible to assign a minus one point to the first base ump who apparently forgot about the "automatic" call? [/quote:1y35zmap] You know full well the answer is no. No negative numbers are allowed in the Schaefer voting - that's a longstanding rule. And one only votes for Mets players.[/quote:1y35zmap] I knew that. But this thread was my place to quantify my displeasure with the ump. Later

Kong76 Apr 11 2009 09:31 AM

Is there anyone on the the interwebsphere more pleasant to be around than Rockin' Doc? Happy Easter weekend, RD ... enjoy!

themetfairy Apr 11 2009 09:39 AM

[quote="MFS62":2j1ktp39][quote="themetfairy":2j1ktp39][quote="MFS62":2j1ktp39]Is it possible to assign a minus one point to the first base ump who apparently forgot about the "automatic" call? [/quote:2j1ktp39] You know full well the answer is no. No negative numbers are allowed in the Schaefer voting - that's a longstanding rule. And one only votes for Mets players.[/quote:2j1ktp39] I knew that. But this thread was my place to quantify my displeasure with the ump. Later[/quote:2j1ktp39] No - this thread is for legitimate Schaefer voting questions and concerns. Snarky remarks that are likely to confuse voters who are new to the system don't belong here. If you're displeased with the ump, the IGT is the appropriate place to express that.

MFS62 Apr 11 2009 10:05 AM

I posted this the next morning. (check the time stamp) How can I post it in the IGT when the game was already over? Isn't that against your rules, too? Later

themetfairy Apr 11 2009 10:07 AM

The IGTs don't get locked. Comment on a given game in one as long as you like.

MFS62 Apr 11 2009 10:23 AM

Thank you. Later

themetfairy Apr 11 2009 07:53 PM

In the 4/11 game, even though David Wright made an ugly throwing error in the 9th, he should still get something for the unassisted double play he made earlier in the game.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 11 2009 08:16 PM

[quote="themetfairy":177hbwzx]In the 4/11 game, even though David Wright made an ugly throwing error in the 9th, he should still get something for the unassisted double play he made earlier in the game.[/quote:177hbwzx] And for batting a Rey-Rey like 1-for-5? He'll get something... it'll just be the kind of money that jingles, rather than the kind that folds.

themetfairy Apr 11 2009 08:35 PM

Small change is fine. A lot of guys are getting small bills for big production tonight. It's one of those nights where there aren't enough suds to go around. But that unassisted DP early in the game was a complexion changer, IMO.

themetfairy Apr 11 2009 08:37 PM

LWFS - please change your Schaefer post to say Rodriguez. Nicknames play havoc with Grimm's spreadsheet. Thanks.

Gwreck Apr 11 2009 08:59 PM

Wright's play saved a run, but he also gave that run back in the 9th. Did very little with his bat to justify anything. He gets nothing from me tonight, mostly because so many other people did more. I also think that it's strange to give Feliciano less than Wright, as Feliciano succeeded in a much higher-leverage situation (he was facing the tying run), much later in the game.

themetfairy Apr 12 2009 06:20 AM

The run that Wright saved early in the game was more important than the run he allowed in the 9th, IMO. Additionally, that play single-handedly ended an inning. And he did get an RBI with that bat, which should justify a sip of suds. As for Feliciano, it was indeed a tight situation, but there's a limit to what I'm going to give a reliever for a third of an inning (even a great one).

Kong76 Apr 12 2009 06:49 AM

I like Moles ballot for 4/11 ... straight and to the point.

OlerudOwned Apr 12 2009 01:19 PM

I don't care that he didn't win, Santana pitched a 6 point game today. He's incredible.

themetfairy Apr 12 2009 01:20 PM

I went for 5.5. I generally save the 6.0 for complete games. But he pitched damn well, that's for sure.

OlerudOwned Apr 12 2009 01:23 PM

Certainly fair enough. I didn't penalize him for being lifted only because he would have stayed in the game anyway had he been given the lead he deserved.

TheOldMole Apr 12 2009 01:42 PM

I'm trying to go for minimalist -- no more than three players in any game. Let's see how long I can stay with it.

themetfairy Apr 12 2009 03:36 PM

[quote="TheOldMole":x15a5osu]I'm trying to go for minimalist -- no more than three players in any game. Let's see how long I can stay with it.[/quote:x15a5osu] I tend to err in the other direction - I try to give a sip of beer to as many guys as I can justify. Whatever our tendencies, I think that the key is that we should try to be consistent throughout the season.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 12 2009 06:01 PM

[quote="themetfairy":174n1m7f]LWFS - please change your Schaefer post to say Rodriguez. Nicknames play havoc with Grimm's spreadsheet. Thanks.[/quote:174n1m7f] Caught this now, and saw that it had already been edited... thanks, and apologies.

themetfairy Apr 12 2009 08:23 PM

No blood, no foul :)

themetfairy Apr 12 2009 08:26 PM

LWFS - I'm once again going to ask you to amend something. In the 4/12 thread, you awarded Santana 6.5. The maximum that any one player can get in any one game is 6 points. Sorry.

Frayed Knot Apr 12 2009 08:33 PM

Quickie review of PotG guidelines: http://archives.cranepoolforum.net/6200/f9_t6278.shtml Like the post says, we don't have a lot of rules around here but because this is an ongoing project that tabulates over the entire season and because that tabulation is automated so as to not be a lot of work for any one person, PotG is one of the few places where we're procedural sticklers.

themetfairy Apr 13 2009 05:55 AM

[quote="themetfairy":2wr0yivk]LWFS - I'm once again going to ask you to amend something. In the 4/12 thread, you awarded Santana 6.5. The maximum that any one player can get in any one game is 6 points. Sorry.[/quote:2wr0yivk] *62 - You also have to edit your vote (7.0 for Santana).

metsmarathon Apr 13 2009 08:42 AM

damned meetings trying to get in the way of me placing my overdue schaeffer votes!

metsmarathon Apr 13 2009 12:42 PM

in yesterday's system, my system actually tried to award santana 7.7 schaeffer votes. that's gotta be some sort of record for a loss. if i had entirely too much time, i'd look into it. but i'm lazy, too.

Edgy DC Apr 13 2009 12:50 PM

I'd imagine with most systems that attempt objectivity, you'd be more likely to blow through that 6-point ceiling in a loss than a win.

m.e.t.b.o.t. Apr 13 2009 12:54 PM

m.e.t.b.o.t. is not confident in the ability of a tiny spring-wound contraption with a rudimentary locomotion mechanism to be able to outrun dissenting human schaeffer voters carrying virtual torches and pitchforks. m.e.t.b.o.t. is unable to yield to peer pressure and will not amend the schaefer voting for metropolitan pitcher johan santana, as the deterministic outcome of his efforts produced only 0.057 WPA pitching, and -0.041 WPA hitting. since m.e.t.b.o.t. ascribes the outcomes of batted balls to the pitcher and not to any fielder, m.e.t.b.o.t. presumes that metropolitan pitcher johan santana would have improved the probability of winning the baseball game by not inducing a long fly ball that could be dropped by a fielder, or a subsequent hit.

metirish Apr 13 2009 12:56 PM

m.e.t.b.o.t. clearly has no capacity for letting emotion play any part in his voting. I like it.

metsmarathon Apr 13 2009 01:01 PM

[quote="Edgy DC":1qi7azy9]I'd imagine with most systems that attempt objectivity, you'd be more likely to blow through that 6-point ceiling in a loss than a win.[/quote:1qi7azy9] a quick and dirty check says that if murphy catches the ball, and the rest of the game goes the same way, he pulls in an 8.3 or so. i actually take away 5 points from a losing pitcher in my objective formula. even with that, santana had 18.3 "marathon points." to blow though the ceiling by so much is really a testament to how dominating he was, and how ineffective our offense was (or how dominating his opponent was...)

*62 Apr 13 2009 03:29 PM

I went "Santana 7 and Parnell 1" .... did I violate some regulation pertaining to SP points? He effectively threw a shutout, 13 strikeouts on only 98 pitches ..... Do I need to, grudgingly, make a change?

*62 Apr 13 2009 03:32 PM

[quote="themetfairy":3bebsdlg][quote="themetfairy":3bebsdlg]LWFS - I'm once again going to ask you to amend something. In the 4/12 thread, you awarded Santana 6.5. The maximum that any one player can get in any one game is 6 points. Sorry.[/quote:3bebsdlg] *62 - You also have to edit your vote (7.0 for Santana).[/quote:3bebsdlg] Done. It stinks, though. He deserved every one of the 7, IMHO.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 13 2009 03:42 PM

When you guys read m.e.t.b.o.t.'s posts, is the voice in your head a monotoned robot voice, too?

Benjamin Grimm Apr 13 2009 04:28 PM

[quote="*62":29v31cd2][quote="themetfairy":29v31cd2][quote="themetfairy":29v31cd2]LWFS - I'm once again going to ask you to amend something. In the 4/12 thread, you awarded Santana 6.5. The maximum that any one player can get in any one game is 6 points. Sorry.[/quote:29v31cd2] *62 - You also have to edit your vote (7.0 for Santana).[/quote:29v31cd2] Done. It stinks, though. He deserved every one of the 7, IMHO.[/quote:29v31cd2] It's a scale of one to 6.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 13 2009 04:30 PM

Oh, and thanks to Metfairy for staying on top of the Schaefer threads in my absence!

metsmarathon Apr 13 2009 05:14 PM

[quote="A Boy Named Seo":1bjwi68n]When you guys read m.e.t.b.o.t.'s posts, is the voice in your head a monotoned robot voice, too?[/quote:1bjwi68n] yes, and its very distracting.

OlerudOwned Apr 13 2009 05:37 PM

http://192.20.225.55/tts/speech/af0ba71 ... 495d77.wav

Benjamin Grimm Apr 13 2009 06:28 PM

Voting for all three of the games played in Cincinnati last week will close on Tuesday morning: Monday: http://cranepoolforum.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=11288 Wednesday: http://cranepoolforum.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=11305 Thursday: http://cranepoolforum.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=11312

themetfairy Apr 13 2009 11:04 PM

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":tqx3atcq]Oh, and thanks to Metfairy for staying on top of the Schaefer threads in my absence![/quote:tqx3atcq] Thanks *62. And no problem Grimm - I hope you had a great trip!

Benjamin Grimm Apr 14 2009 02:34 PM

Voting for all three weekend games in Miami will close on Wednesday.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 15 2009 11:32 AM

Voting for Monday night's Citi Field opener against the Padres will close some time on Thursday. Schaefer POTG 04/13/2009 San Diego 6, Mets 5 If you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today.

Gwreck Apr 15 2009 11:26 PM

Let's not be undervaluing Parnell in the 4/15 game. A scoreless inning while protecting a 1-run lead is pretty big. I can understand Parnell getting the same value as Putz, but Putz getting points while Parnell doesn't? Or Green getting the same as Parnell? Or Parnell only getting half a point? Seems strange.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 16 2009 05:04 AM

Yeah. Bobby was huge.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 16 2009 05:20 AM

Good point. I missed a few innings last night, and misread the box score. I thought it was Putz who pitched the inning with the one-run lead, but it was Parnell. The point I had given to Putz has been reassigned to Parnell.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 17 2009 05:50 AM

Voting for Wednesday's Jackie Robinson Night win over the Padres will close some time over the weekend. Schaefer POTG 4/15/09 - Mets 7, Padres 2 If you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today.

Elster88 Apr 18 2009 01:46 PM

Santos throws out the runner at second for the last out.

GYC Apr 18 2009 05:47 PM

I've dorked it out and made a series of custom lists in Excel so I can just drag the Mets schedule across instead of just "Game 1" and "Game 2", etc. I'm way too excited, considering what it is, but whatever.

Edgy DC Apr 18 2009 08:51 PM

A hit and a walk in three trips. I'm Ryan Church. Love me. Love me AS I AM!

*62 Apr 18 2009 09:16 PM

Point taken .... I added a sip of beer for Brother Ryan on your based on your plea. I think I gave Santos a half point yesterday for not hitting into a DP in his 11th (?) career ML AB. I edit a lot, anyway .... I'm working on it.

Elster88 Apr 19 2009 10:34 AM

I'm surprised people are giving Santana 5.5 or even 6 points. If you get that much for a seven inning shutout (with zero offensive support) what do you give for a nine inning shutout (with zero offensive support)?

Edgy DC Apr 19 2009 12:56 PM

It's the zero offensive support that meaningfully inflates his performance.

Elster88 Apr 19 2009 01:03 PM

So as I said, how many points does he get for 1-0 win when he goes nine innings? Shirley you understand my question.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 19 2009 01:10 PM

Okay, so if you give him 6 for nine shutout innings, what do you give him if he goes 9 and also hits a grand slam? You can't really reserve the 6 for the perfect performance, because it's always possible to do a little bit better.

Kong76 Apr 19 2009 04:55 PM

I don't know what the plan is, but can we have all day tomorrow to catch up on voting?

Benjamin Grimm Apr 19 2009 05:28 PM

No games will close tomorrow. The next game that will close will be Thursday's game, and that will happen on Tuesday. And all three of the games against the Brewers will close on Wednesday.

GYC Apr 19 2009 08:21 PM

If he throws a complete game shutout or whatever, I give him a 6 and don't prorate his points when I do that. I guess that's more of a thing with my points, though, because without an absolutely outstanding performance, a 6 is going to get prorated down probably.

Edgy DC Apr 20 2009 09:45 AM

I missed yesterday's game doing yardwork. Did Carlos Beltran kill a kitty or something? How is he getting the back of so many hands after going 2-3 with a walk?

MFS62 Apr 20 2009 10:16 AM

I thought we used to have a ten point team maximum and a five point individual maximum per game. Is that true and if it is, when did it change? Later

Edgy DC Apr 20 2009 10:17 AM

Six point individual maximum.

MFS62 Apr 20 2009 10:18 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":tcshyhvu]Six point individual maximum.[/quote:tcshyhvu] Thank you. Rules around here can sometimes be confusing. Later

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2009 01:37 PM

Voting for Thursday night's loss to the Padres will close some time on Tuesday. Schaefer POTG 4/16/09 - Padres 6, Mets 5 If you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 21 2009 08:42 AM

All three of this past weekend's games against the Brewers at Citi Field will close some time on Wednesday: Schaefer POTG 4/17/09 - Mets 5, Brewers 4 Schaefer PotG, 4/18/2009: Mets 1, Brewers 0 Schaefer POTG 04/19/2009 Milwaukee 4, Mets 2 Please try to get your votes in today if you haven't voted yet.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 23 2009 09:30 AM

Voting for Monday night's loss to the Cardinals in St. Louis will close some time on Friday. Schaefer POTG 4/21/09 - Cardinals 6, Mets 4 If you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 24 2009 06:25 AM

Voting for Wednesday night's loss to the Cardinals in St. Louis will close some time over the weekend. Schaefer POTG 4/22/09 - Cardinals 5, Mets 2 If you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today.

themetfairy Apr 25 2009 02:12 PM

Fman - today's score is actually 8-2.

Edgy DC Apr 25 2009 03:14 PM

We're over crediting the starting pitcher. Pelfrey wan't the Player of the Game. if his defense didn't go two extra miles for him today, there'd be three threads here openly wondering how we can get him to Buffalo.

Kong76 Apr 25 2009 10:21 PM

M62: Rules around here can sometimes be confusing <<< There's rules here?

themetfairy Apr 26 2009 06:10 PM

I know that Fossum ate some innings today, but that was after he allowed two inherited runners to score and gave up an earned run of his own. Mileage may vary, but I can't bring myself to give him any beer for his ride to Buffalo.

Kong76 Apr 26 2009 06:41 PM

The sprinkling of beer is all over the map in the voting. Sometimes I sing this while voting ... {L Gore} it's my voting and I'll vote how I want to vote how I want to vote how I want to you can vote too how it happened for you {/L Gore} When people start explaining why they award 0.07 points instead of 0.09 to someone (other than, "metbot understands"), then I'll explain myself for awarding Fossum for eating innings :-)

Edgy DC Apr 26 2009 07:18 PM

I give guys different point values for different things they do. Some things are worth a point. Some are worth a quarter point. But I give ten points a game, every game. If, for one game, I've totaled up 19.25 points to give, I divide everybody's score by 1.95, and their scores diminish, with some displaying funky .07-type figures to the right of the decimal point. If I've only totaled up 8.25 points to give, I divide by .825 and their scores grow, but also produce some funky decimals.

Ashie62 Apr 26 2009 10:50 PM

[quote="Elster88":2p4nwip4]So as I said, how many points does he get for 1-0 win when he goes nine innings? Shirley you understand my question.[/quote:2p4nwip4] I don't know and please don't call me Shirley

Benjamin Grimm Apr 27 2009 08:24 AM

Voting for Thursday afternoon's losing slugfest in St. Louis will close some time on Tuesday. Schaefer POTG 4/23/09 - Cardinals 12, Mets 8 If you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 28 2009 06:59 AM

Tomorrow will be "Wacky Wednesday," with all three of this past weekend's games against Washington at Citi Field closing: Schaefer POTG 4/24/09 - Mets 4, Nationals 3 Schaefer POTG 4/25/09 - Mets 8, Nationals 2 Schaefer POTG 4/26/09 - Mets 1, Nationals 8 Please try to get your votes in today if you haven't voted yet.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 29 2009 09:31 AM

Voting for Monday night's win at Citi Field over the Marlins will close some time on Thursday. Schaefer POTG 4/27/09 - Mets 7, Marlins 1 If you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today. Also, look for this year's first players-of-the-month announcement on Tuesday of next week.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 30 2009 07:18 AM

Voting for Tuesday night's loss at home against Florida will close some time on Friday. Schaefer POTG 4/28/09 - Marlins 7, Mets 4 If you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today. Plus, I was wrong above about when the month of April would close. I had forgotten that Thursday (today) was a day off. Wednesday afternoon's loss will close over the weekend, and the April Player of the Month will be announced either then or on Monday.

Edgy DC Apr 30 2009 08:14 AM

Tatis is being undersold. Three hits, a homerun, two runs, a stolen base, one RBI, and none of the fellers left on base that so vex the team.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 30 2009 09:24 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":v5bzz9e3]Tatis is being undersold. Three hits, a homerun, two runs, a stolen base, one RBI, and none of the fellers left on base that so vex the team.[/quote:v5bzz9e3] Not to mention ensnaring a funky foul-pop-up with Hermida on 2nd. I gave him 2.8, but only because it's Johan pitching, and Castro deserves a little something, too. (I AM considering giving home HRs more weight in my process, though.)

Benjamin Grimm May 01 2009 08:40 AM

It's just about time to wrap up the month of April. Voting for Wednesday afternoon's blown save at Citi Field against Florida will close some time over the weekend. Schaefer POTG 4/29/09 - Fish 4, Mets 3 Voting for this game has been especially light, which is understandable for such a discouraging game. Nevertheless, if you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today. Once the voting for this game closes, the players of the month will be announced.

Edgy DC May 01 2009 08:47 AM

I'll make my daily plea to stop looking so well at successful but short starts and so ill at multiple hit games with six or more total bases. It's not just the starting pitcher whose effort goes to waste when the bullpen falters. It seems starting pitchers either get three or more points or zero.

Edgy DC May 01 2009 10:11 PM

Again... Beltran is on base four times, steals a base, scores twice, strands nobody, and makes only one out, but Pelfrey gets 4-7 times as much support.

GYC May 01 2009 11:20 PM

[quote="Edgy DC":3knh9iis]Again... Beltran is on base four times, steals a base, scores twice, strands nobody, and makes only one out, but Pelfrey gets 4-7 times as much support.[/quote:3knh9iis] Pelfrey also drove in two runs. But, also, before I ever read your post, I had intentions of giving Beltran 3 to 4 points before I prorate them.

themetfairy May 02 2009 06:29 AM

In the games where a lot of guys make positive contributions, there's often not enough beer to give every deserving player full glasses. And like GYC said, Pelfrey would have scored points just for his two RBI's in last night's game.

themetfairy May 04 2009 07:58 PM

I'm giving Church a sip of Schaefer tonight for that beautiful catch.

Benjamin Grimm May 05 2009 05:56 AM

Both games from the rain-shortened weekend in Philadelphia will be closing tomorrow, Wednesday May 6: Schaefer POTG 5/1/09 - Mets 7, Phillies 4 Schaefer POTG 05/02/09, Philadelphia 6, Mets 5 (10 innings) We had great participation in April, but the number of voters has been dwindling lately. If you're still interested in voting, but haven't done so yet, please try to get your votes in today for these two games.

metsmarathon May 05 2009 07:29 AM

crap. i've totally gotten untracked this past week. gotta get back on the ball!

Benjamin Grimm May 06 2009 11:33 AM

Voting for Monday night's win in Atlanta will close some time on Thursday: Schaefer POTG 5/4/09 - Mets 6, Braves 4 If you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today.

Rockin' Doc May 06 2009 10:32 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 07 2009 12:53 PM

Ashie62, I know that Johan Santana was amazing tonight and his pitching was a joy to watch, but as great as he was he still can not receive more that 6 Schaefer points in a single game. Rules are rules.* *Rules should only apply to mere mortals. Such rules should not apply to a colossus such as Santana. Edited to insert a very important word (not) that I left out.

Benjamin Grimm May 07 2009 04:56 AM

Ashie's vote will be disqualified if it isn't edited.

Benjamin Grimm May 07 2009 08:15 AM

Voting for Tuesday night's win in Atlanta will close some time on Friday: Schaefer POTG 5/5/09 - Mets 4, Braves 3 If you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today.

HahnSolo May 08 2009 08:09 AM

Voting for Big Pelph scattered. From as low as .47 to as high as 4.25. I gave him a 2. I also gave KRod a little more for a 1-inning, 2-run lead save, because: it was his fourth in four nights; it closed out a short sweep of a team ahead of us; closing this game out after they got 2 runs they shouldn't have in the 8th was big (this game had all the earmarks of a "gritty, gutty Phils find a way to come back; hapless Mets choke again" loss).

Edgy DC May 08 2009 08:16 AM

I was miserly and feel bad about it. But he gave up three runs, didn't strike out anybody, and went 0-3. If the offense doesn't pile them up for him, I don't think folks would be so impressed by his performance. David Wright's your man last night.

Benjamin Grimm May 08 2009 08:25 AM

Voting for Wednesday night's 1-0 win over the Phillies will close some time over the weekend: Schaefer POTG 5/6/09 - Mets 1, Phillies 0 We've already had a higher-than-usual vote turnout for that game, but if you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today. Ashie's vote still hasn't been edited, and will be disqualified if he doesn't do so by the time the thread is closed.

metirish May 08 2009 10:35 AM

[quote="HahnSolo":3ohfujhy]Voting for Big Pelph scattered. From as low as .47 to as high as 4.25. I gave him a 2. I also gave KRod a little more for a 1-inning, 2-run lead save, because: it was his fourth in four nights; it closed out a short sweep of a team ahead of us; closing this game out after they got 2 runs they shouldn't have in the 8th was big (this game had all the earmarks of a "gritty, gutty Phils find a way to come back; hapless Mets choke again" loss).[/quote:3ohfujhy] You spelled Pelfrey's name wrong.

HahnSolo May 08 2009 11:14 AM

I'm sure its not the first time. Fixed in the potg thread.

metirish May 08 2009 11:18 AM

Just to be clear , I mentioned it because a wrong spelling or a nickname for that matter can cause your voting to be chucked into the Ben Grims virtual rubbish can.

Benjamin Grimm May 08 2009 11:26 AM

Well, no, I don't disqualify votes for misspellings. They just cause me further work as I have to find and correct them, so I do appreciate when names are spelled correctly. (Some day I'll have to figure out who keeps voting for "Degado" and "Felicano.") If you use a nickname that I can't figure out, I'll toss the vote. Same is true if any player gets more than 6 points. (As we currently have in the Mets 1, Phillies 0 thread.) If someone accidentally awards more than 10 points, which happens pretty frequently, the spreadsheet automatically pro-rates the votes down to 10.

Benjamin Grimm May 11 2009 07:08 AM

Voting for Thursday night's win over the Phillies will close some time on Tuesday: Schaefer POTG 5/7/09 - Mets 7, Phillies 5 If you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today.

Benjamin Grimm May 12 2009 07:46 AM

Another "Wacky Wednesday," tomorrow, where we'll see the closing of all three games from this past weekend's sweep against the Pirates at home: Schaefer POTG 5/8/09 - Mets 7, Pirates 3 Schaefer POTG 5/9/09 - Mets 10, Pirates 1 Schaefer POTG 5/10/09 - Mets 8, Pirates 4 The Friday and Sunday games are still rather lightly voted. Nevertheless, the threads will close some time tomorrow. If you still have votes to cast, try to get them posted today.

Elster88 May 12 2009 09:47 PM

Please consider when voting that Beltran basically tied the game in the bottom of the ninth by himself. I like him so I am biased, but he is the reason we go back in this.

Benjamin Grimm May 13 2009 07:29 AM

Voting for Monday night's loss to the Braves at Citi Field will close some time on Thursday: Schaefer POTG 5/11/09 - Braves 8, Mets 3 If you're planning to vote on this game, please try to do so today.

metsmarathon May 13 2009 08:24 AM

i suck at schaefer voting this year...

Benjamin Grimm May 15 2009 07:18 AM

I was Schaefer-lazy yesterday, and neglected to close the May 11 game, as announced. I also neglected to announce that the May 12 game would close today. So that game will get a bit of an extension, and both the May 12 and May 13 games will close some time over the weekend. Schaefer POTG 5/12/09 - Mets 4, Braves 3 Schaefer POTG 5/13/09 - Braves 8, Mets 7 The May 13 game, I should add, has only a mere four votes. (I'll soon add the fifth vote.) It's in danger of being the most lightly voted game of the season. As yucky as the game turned out, please consider casting your votes.

Benjamin Grimm May 18 2009 08:48 AM

Voting for last Thursday's road-trip opening win in San Francisco will close some time on Tuesday: Schaefer POTG 5/14/09 - Mets 7, Giants 4 If you're planning to vote on this game, please try to do so today.

Benjamin Grimm May 19 2009 07:20 AM

The final three games from the Mets weekend series in San Francisco will close some time on Wednesday: Schaefer POTG 5/15/09 - Mets 8, Giants 6 Schaefer POTG 5/16/09 - Mets 9, Giants 6 Schaefer POTG 5/17/09 - Giants 2, Mets 0 If you still have votes to cast, try to get them posted today.

themetfairy May 20 2009 05:24 AM

I gave Maine a decent amount of beer last night, in large part due to his two RBIs.

Benjamin Grimm May 20 2009 09:29 AM

We currently have a dead heat for first place in the Schaefer Player of the Year competition: Season-to-date totals for 2009 Through game of May 17, 2009 Rank Name Points 1 Johan Santana 33.52 1 Carlos Beltran 33.52 3 David Wright 29.98 4 Carlos Delgado 20.71 5 José Reyes 17.20 6 Luis Castillo 15.38 7 Mike Pelfrey 14.05 8 Daniel Murphy 13.28 9 John Maine 13.03 10 Francisco Rodriguez 12.71 11 Livan Hernandez 12.01 12 Ryan Church 11.30 13 Fernando Tatis 10.97 14 Omir Santos 10.55 15 Gary Sheffield 10.50 16 J. J. Putz 9.15 17 Ramon Castro 9.07 18 Bobby Parnell 8.33 19 Brian Stokes 7.97 20 Pedro Feliciano 7.27 21 Alex Cora 7.02 22 Sean Green 5.49 23 Oliver Perez 3.71 24 Jeremy Reed 3.44 25 Ken Takahashi 3.41 26 Jon Niese 2.76 27 Brian Schneider 2.15 28 Nelson Figueroa 1.71 29 Casey Fossum 1.62 30 Darren O'Day 0.69

Benjamin Grimm May 20 2009 09:31 AM

Voting for Monday night's loss to the Dodgers in LA will close some time on Thursday: Schaefer POTG 5/18/09 - Dodgers 3, Mets 2 (11 Innings) Only five votes so far! If you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today.

Benjamin Grimm May 21 2009 07:14 AM

Voting for Tuesday night's loss to the Dodgers in LA will close some time on Friday: Schaefer POTG 5/19/09 - Dodgers 5, Mets 3 Only six votes so far. (themetfairy, LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr, John Cougar Lunchbucket, GYC, Fman99, Benjamin Grimm) If you haven't voted yet, and plan to, please try to do so today.

Benjamin Grimm May 25 2009 12:35 PM

I've been a bit neglectful lately. Voting for Wednesday night's final game in Los Angeles should have closed by now, but will remain open until Tuesday afternoon: Schaefer POTG 5/20/09 - Dodgers 2, Mets 1 I'll post another announcement on Wednesday, but all three games in the series at Fenway that just concluded will remain open for voting until Thursday.

Benjamin Grimm May 26 2009 05:37 PM

Please keep in mind that from here on in it will be RMartinez for Ramon and FMartinez for Fernando.

Benjamin Grimm May 26 2009 08:13 PM

[quote="Frayed Knot":qe9z9e4n]Hernandez - 4.6 Sheffield - 2.1 Castillo - 0.7 Santos - 0.7 Martinez - 0.7 Pagan - 0.7 Wright - 0.5[/quote:qe9z9e4n] Please remember to specify which Martinez (R or F) that you're voting for!

Benjamin Grimm May 27 2009 07:19 AM

I don't want to be a nag, but... [quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3rwp62d6]Hernandez 5.0 Sheffield 2.6 Pagan 0.8 Wright 0.5 Castillo 0.5 Santos 0.3 Martinez 0.3[/quote:3rwp62d6] We really do need to specify which Martinez (F or R) that we're voting for. I hate discarding votes, but if I don't know who the player is, I have no alternative.

Edgy DC May 27 2009 07:46 AM

Has PiazzaFan411 returned just to vote beer?

Benjamin Grimm May 27 2009 12:40 PM

Wacky Wednesday will be held on Thursday this week, thanks to the Memorial Day weekend. All three games of this past weekend's series against the Red Sox at Fenway Park will close Thursday afternoon. Schaefer POTG 5/22/09 - Mets 5, Red Sox 3 Schaefer POTG 05/23/09 Mets 3, Boston 2 Schaefer POTG 05/24/09 Boston 12, Mets 5

metsmarathon May 27 2009 01:11 PM

ah jeez, i didn't see that one down there... i've got more voting to do

Elster88 May 27 2009 08:07 PM

Two Martinezes and neither is named Pedro. Huh,

Benjamin Grimm May 28 2009 11:31 AM

Voting for the first two games (Monday night and Tuesday night) of the recent home sweep of the Nationals will close on Friday. If you haven't voted yet, and plan to do so, please get your points posted today. And LeiterWagner's votes for Tuesday's game remain in deadly peril. If he doesn't specify his Martinez, I'll have to discard his entire ballot. Schaefer POTG 5/25/09 = Mets 5, Nationals 2 Schaefer POTG 5/26/09 - Natinals, 1 @ Mets, 6

Benjamin Grimm May 29 2009 07:40 AM

Voting for Wednesday night's series-closing win over the Nationals at Citi Field will close some time over the weekend. Schaefer POTG 5/27/09 - Mets 7, Nationals 4

themetfairy May 30 2009 03:20 PM

This is the kind of game for which I never would have been able to award ten points.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 02 2009 05:58 AM

Tomorrow will once again be Wacky Wednesday. Voting for all three games of the weekend's series in Flushing against the Marlins will close some time tomorrow. If you still have votes to cast, please try to get them in today. Schaefer POTG 5/29/09 - Mets 2, Marlins 1 (11 Innings) Schaefer POTG 05/30/2009 Florida 7, Mets 3 Schaefer POTG 5/31/09 - Mets 3, Marlins 2

Benjamin Grimm Jun 03 2009 11:09 AM

Well, May is done, now let's start on June. Voting for Monday night's loss to the Pirates in Pittsburgh will close some time on Thursday. Not many votes yet (it was a horrible discouraging loss) but if you still want to chime in, please try to do so today. (And NO, no negative votes for J.J. Putz.) Schaefer POTG 6/1/09 - Pirates 8, Mets 5

Benjamin Grimm Jun 04 2009 09:47 AM

Voting for Tuesday night's loss to the Pirates at PNC Park will close sometime on Friday. Schaefer POTG 6/2/09 - Pirates 3, Mets 1 Not many voters so far. If you're planning to cast a ballot, please try to do so today.

Fman99 Jun 04 2009 09:51 AM

I slacked and didn't vote on the Marlins games. I will go do the two Pirate games now though. OE: I will vote on Tuesday, seems like I missed Monday's deadline. No biggie.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2009 04:46 AM

Voting for last Thursday's afternoon loss to the Pirates in Pittsburgh will close some time on Tuesday. If you're interested in voting, please try to do so today. Schaefer POTG 6/4/09 - Pirates 11, Mets 6 The entire three-game series in Washington which just concluded will close on Wednesday.

Hawkeye57 Jun 08 2009 09:39 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":1s8xkyzy]Has PiazzaFan411 returned just to vote beer?[/quote:1s8xkyzy] Not really, I try my best not to go with everyone else. Plus, I'd post elsewhere if I had something to add. But yeah, I have returned.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2009 07:08 AM

Tomorrow brings us another Wacky Wednesday, with all three games of this past weekend's series in Washington closing some time tomorrow. Schaefer POTG 6/5/09 - Mets 3, Nationals 1 Schaefer POTG 6/6/09 - Nationals 7, Mets 1 Schaefer POTG 6/7/09 - Mets 7, Nationals 0 If you still have Mets-Nationals votes that you're planning to cast, please try to get them in today.

Edgy DC Jun 10 2009 07:32 AM

I'm surprised to see Johan Santana leading so many cards. He showed some guttiness and argued for his manhood and all, but the bottom line is the bottom line, and that bottom line showed four homers and five earned runs in seven innings.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2009 07:38 AM

I haven't voted yet, but I plan to give him credit for the 7 innings and the RBI. I'm thinking somewhere around 2 to 2.5 points.

Frayed Knot Jun 10 2009 07:39 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":2qezhmge]I'm surprised to see Johan Santana leading so many cards. He showed some guttiness and argued for his manhood and all, but the bottom line is the bottom line, and that bottom line showed four homers and five earned runs in seven innings.[/quote:2qezhmge] And a key run-scoring double

Edgy DC Jun 10 2009 07:59 AM

That's what put him into the net positive column for me.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 10 2009 08:27 AM

Plus a nifty double play

themetfairy Jun 10 2009 08:37 AM

Don't mess with the Johan!

Edgy DC Jun 10 2009 08:37 AM

Same performance by Ollie and he's sucking Meister Brau.

metirish Jun 10 2009 08:44 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":evuhlqg7]Same performance by Ollie and he's sucking Meister Brau.[/quote:evuhlqg7] I don't agree with that though. To me it looked like Santana was going right after the hitters even though he didn't have his best stuff. Made some mistakes that got deposited over the wall , mostly solo shots. Other guys get in trouble and start walking the park and next thing you know it's 8 runs they've given up. Santana battled out there , at times it looked like he was trying to pump himself up as well as his team..... thankfully I don't drink as I think I'd go thirsty with Edgy as the barkeep.

themetfairy Jun 10 2009 08:48 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":u77s0aro]Same performance by Ollie and he's sucking Meister Brau.[/quote:u77s0aro] I disagree. If he lasted seven innings and had an RBI double, I'd give him some beer. I remember recently giving someone (maybe Maine) a sip of beer in a game where he sucked on the mound but did something good with the bat.

Edgy DC Jun 10 2009 08:50 AM

Pelfrey had one of the worst starts of the year but scored a run. http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes ... 6040.shtml

Edgy DC Jun 10 2009 08:56 AM

Oliver Perez has an awful start, but probably less awful than Pelfrey, and goes 1-1 at the plate, and gets ignored. Rightfully, ignored, I think. http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes ... 5020.shtml http://cranepoolforum.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=11507

metirish Jun 10 2009 08:59 AM

Ollie got ignored becasue he's Mexican ....

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2009 09:00 AM

Yeah, but he only went 2.1 innings in that game. When a starting pitcher eats seven innings, he's contributed something, even if he gives up a lot of runs. I don't give points to every player who gets a base hit, or even who scores or drives in a run. I tend to try to give more points to fewer players.

Edgy DC Jun 10 2009 09:02 AM

I was specifically comparing his start to Pelfrey's

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2009 09:09 AM

Oh. Okay, then. But in that game by Pelfrey, only one voter game him anything, and that was a mere quarter point.

Edgy DC Jun 10 2009 09:13 AM

Yabbut, that's who I was addressing, as she appeared to be holding that game (or one like it) up as a relevant precedent.

metsmarathon Jun 10 2009 09:50 AM

johan just misses my top 6 for the game, mostly on the strength of me giving him credit for a "web gem" on the nice snag. he got a 0.9 with the bat, 0.8 with his arm, and 2.8 with his glove, for a total of 4.40 marathon points, and not enough to best church's 4.90 marathon points. so ryan church gets the 1.1 schaeffer votes, and johan gets nothing. poor fellow.

themetfairy Jun 10 2009 10:14 AM

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":2uk7ju65]Oh. Okay, then. But in that game by Pelfrey, only one voter game him anything, and that was a mere quarter point.[/quote:2uk7ju65] That was probably me. I tend to award a quarter point for a run scored. A mere hit doesn't generally score beer from me. If Ollie had scored a run, he would have gotten the same sip Pelfrey did.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 10 2009 10:16 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":2ftuk7lh]Same performance by Ollie and he's sucking Meister Brau.[/quote:2ftuk7lh] Ollie doesn't ever give the same performance-- it's either 0 runs over 7, or he's done after 4-5. Ollie puts on about half of those runners himself via walk/HBP (if not more), and does it in 3-2/3. From the "But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?" Department: He got hit solidly a total of 5 times-- 4 of them happened to go out. From the "That's practically Reuschel-ian!" Department: He only let up 9 baserunners in 7 innings-- a still-decent 1.28 WHIP. From the "F*ck that 'pitcher' noise-- This Man is an ATHLETE" Department: His RBI double wasn't just a contributing hit-- it was crucial to the win. He gets 1.6 out of me for all that, and the glove save on Victorino.

Edgy DC Jun 10 2009 10:42 AM

[quote="Fairy":3724pzp7]That was probably me. I tend to award a quarter point for a run scored.[/quote:3724pzp7] That I understand. What's tougher is seeing how it isn't negated several times ove by the same guy in the same game giving up nine runs, eight earned in less than four innings. [quote="metsmarathon":3724pzp7]he got a 0.9 with the bat, 0.8 with his arm, and 2.8 with his glove, for a total of 4.40 marathon points, and not enough to best church's 4.90 marathon points.[/quote:3724pzp7] The bat and the glove, OK, but how is the arm a net positive when he gave up five runs in seven innings? That's a 6.43 ERA. Yeah, LWFS, that's a low WHIP, but homers ar big H's.

metsmarathon Jun 10 2009 11:26 AM

here's the breakdown of santana's evening from me, with a truncated list of all my schaeffer voting criteria: Statistic count multiplier total AB 3 -0.2 -0.6 R 1 0 H 1 0.75 0.75 RBI 1 1.25 1.25 BB 0.5 0 SO 1 -0.25 -0.25 LOB 2 -0.5 -1 3B 1 0 HR 1 0 TB 2 0.5 1 LISPw2O 1 -0.25 -0.25 SF/SH 0.5 0 GIDP -1 0 GARBI 2 0 GARS 2 0 batting total - 0.9 ... E -1 0 DPstarted 1 0.25 0.25 DPturned 1 0.5 0.5 Web Gem 1 2 2 fielding total 2.75 ... IP 7 2 14 H 8 -0.25 -2 R 5 -0.75 -3.75 ER 5 -0.5 -2.5 BB 1 -0.5 -0.5 SO 2 0.75 1.5 HR 4 -1 -4 W 1 1 1 L -5 0 HBP -1.25 0 WP -1 0 Balk -2 0 CG 2 0 SHO 2 0 GS 1 -3 -3 QS 5 0 pitching total 0.75 ... game total 4.4 the theoretical maximum schaeffer vote that he could have gotten out of his pitching performance is a 0.4, which means that the sum of the 'marathon points' for the top six players in the game was less than 19. that would not have been a good game for the mets, typically requiring both poor pitching and absent hitting. to convert marathon points into schaeffer votes, i first take the top six positive scores, and then, if they total less than 19, i halve them and that becomes the vote. if they exceed 19, i scale them to 9.5, and award a bonus half point to the top producer. as wonky as it seems, i end up with voting results that are, more often than not, consistent with the populace, and which were consistent with my initial non-scientific scribblings of how much i thought certain performances are worth, so i think it stands up. ... in the afore-mentioned pelfrey game, he ended up with a -15.4 for his pitching, and also garnered -1.7 for his hitting, or lack thereof, on the basis of not getting a hit in 2 at bats, with 4 left on base, one in scoring position with 2 outs. that's too much weight for a lone run scored to offset.

themetfairy Jun 10 2009 11:31 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":gekhp79r][quote="Fairy":gekhp79r]That was probably me. I tend to award a quarter point for a run scored.[/quote:gekhp79r] That I understand. What's tougher is seeing how it isn't negated several times ove by the same guy in the same game giving up nine runs, eight earned in less than four innings. [/quote:gekhp79r] This is why the Schaefer voting is a composite. We all have different criteria, but so long as we try to stick with them consistently then the final numbers should be pretty robust. In my voting, someone who has an RBI or scores a run usually gets something. And absent a game when there aren't enough points to go around (like a complete game 11-0 Mets victory), I'll consistently award a quarter of a point for a run scored.

Edgy DC Jun 10 2009 01:38 PM

Yes but still we discuss. Five points. The guy just landed a five.

themetfairy Jun 10 2009 02:18 PM

Discuss, fine. But don't make it sound like I'm discriminating against Ollie because I give pitchers Schaefer when they produce offensively. If Ollie scores a run or has an RBI, he'll get the same consideration that I give every other pitcher.

Edgy DC Jun 10 2009 02:24 PM

I addressed the Oliver Perez point to everybody.

Edgy DC Jun 10 2009 02:31 PM

You, in fact, did give Perez a point for scoring a run in an otherwise failing start. What my Perez comment initially adderessed was whether he'd get the same general support for the same performance. It's impossilble to check, because Manuel doen't tend to let pitchers go into the eighth with four runs already on their recoeds. Certainly not Oliver Perez. But he let Santana last night. It's a literally incomparable performance

themetfairy Jun 10 2009 02:44 PM

I'll let others speak for themselves. My hands are clean here.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 11 2009 04:36 AM

Voting for Tuesday night's win over the Phillies will close some time on Friday: Schaefer POTG 6/9/09 - Mets 6, Phillies 5

metsmarathon Jun 11 2009 07:36 AM

not that i'm doing so good at the schaeffer voting, but i could definitely set up my spreadsheets to also spit out meister brau points as well. might be a fun parallel project...

Benjamin Grimm Jun 12 2009 08:18 AM

Voting for Wednesday night's loss to the Phillies will close some time over the weekend, or on Monday. If you still have a vote to cast, please try to do so today. Schaefer POTG 6/10/09 - Phillies 5, Mets 4 Also, the Mets have only one player named "Rodriguez" so there's no need to include his first initial when you vote for him. But even though Ramon Martinez is not currently with the club, please be sure to remember to include the first initial when you vote for Fernando Martinez. It's "Rodriguez" and "FMartinez." Thanks.

Kong76 Jun 14 2009 06:30 PM

If there was ever a day when the Mets don't need to have ten beer points disbursed just so it comes out to an even ten, today is the day. Edgy's system awards Takahashi 4.86 points today yet he bitches and moans when a starter gets awarded 3, 4, 5 points on a good day? Of course, knowing Edgy, he could throw "it's my voting and I'll vote how I want to" in my face (which I've used), but my feeling is that awarding Takahashi 4.86 points today is kind of obnoxious.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 14 2009 06:34 PM

[quote="Kong76"]If there was ever a day when the Mets don't need to have ten beer points disbursed just so it comes out to an even ten, today is the day.

Hell, squeezing out one full point among everyone is an effort.

Edgy DC Jun 14 2009 08:17 PM

[quote="Kong76":1k9zxuf7]If there was ever a day when the Mets don't need to have ten beer points disbursed just so it comes out to an even ten, today is the day. Edgy's system awards Takahashi 4.86 points today yet he bitches and moans when a starter gets awarded 3, 4, 5 points on a good day? Of course, knowing Edgy, he could throw "it's my voting and I'll vote how I want to" in my face (which I've used), but my feeling is that awarding Takahashi 4.86 points today is kind of obnoxious.[/quote:1k9zxuf7] Acrtually, I have responded to your inquiries. Explcitly. I make it a point to give ten points per game. it's not necessary to compare it to other games, but it can, in the monthly tabulating, serve to underscore how poor the general effort was today. And it's more fair to describe my comments not as bitchng and moaning about what the starting pitcher gets --- which isn't what I do --- but disagreeing about what the starting pitcher gets relative to the top offensive performers.

Edgy DC Jun 14 2009 10:56 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 15 2009 06:23 AM

Here's what they actually got. Castillo 3.39 Sheffield 2.33 Valdez 1.00 Castillo 0.25 Scaling that to 10 points, we get Castillo 4.86 Sheffield 3.35 Valdez 1.43 Castillo 0.36 Yeah, that may seem to viogorous for a non-starter effort, but it works the other way, in a game where I have 26 points to give, and I have to scaale it down to 10. I think what's important is that you give the right score for a guy relative to others in the game. A game is a distinct unit with a distinct value within the season, so I think it's important to maintain the same value in points. I know folks disagree, but I think it's sound mathematical thinking. By the way, the other guys earned an unprecedented 44.10 sucker points today. Murphy -0.67 Beltran -1.00 Tatis -1.00 Wright -1.25 Switzer -2.40 Reed -2.58 Cora -3.25 FMartinez -3.25 Schneider -3.26 Church -4.25 Stokes -6.38 Santana -14.81 Scaled to 10, it seems far more blodless, but it isn't. Murphy -0.15 Beltran -0.23 Tatis -0.23 Wright -0.28 Switzer -0.55 Reed -0.59 Cora -0.74 FMartinez -0.74 Schneider -0.74 Church -0.96 Stokes -1.45 Santana -3.36

Kong76 Jun 15 2009 05:28 AM

EDC: Here's what they actually got. Castillo 3.39 (Takahashi) Sheffield 2.33 Valdez 1.00 Castillo 0.25 Scaling that to 10 points, we get Castillo 4.86 (Takahashi) Sheffield 3.35 Valdez 1.43 Castillo 0.36<<<<------------------------------ Takahashi doesn't deserve 4.86 points. Maybe he does in your Metseccentric mad scientist world, but he doesn't in mine.

Rockin' Doc Jun 15 2009 06:18 AM

My thinking is far more in line with KC's on this point. I think 4.86 points to Takahashi for 1.2 innings of mop up in a humiliating loss is absurd, but to each their own. It's Edgy's vote and he may distribute his Schaeffer any way he sees fit as long as it is within the established rules.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2009 06:24 AM

I'ma mad scientist and I'm absurd.

Kong76 Jun 15 2009 06:28 AM

A Metseccentric mad scientist.

Frayed Knot Jun 15 2009 06:35 AM

A game is a distinct unit with a distinct value within the season, so I think it's important to maintain the same value in points. I know folks disagree, but I think it's sound mathematical thinking. Sound only if one confuses the terms 'distinct' with 'equal'.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2009 06:39 AM

And as soon as I sieze the boron crystals from under the soda shop where those meddling kids hang out, I'm going to blow this whole forum up with my ANTIMATTER ACCELERATION CANNON! That will teach those small-minded but plucky fools at the Crane Pool the meaning of relativity! Hah-HAH! (Wait... did I say that out loud. Drat! Double drat! I must work quickly now.)

metirish Jun 15 2009 07:07 AM

I'm opting out of voting in the future, that includes the just finished series. Nothing to do with your excellent work and effort Ben Grim.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2009 07:53 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 15 2009 08:02 AM

What has it to do with? I mean, I'm not really going to vaporize you with an antimatter acceration cannon. Swear to God. If my vote on yesterdays game has somehow made it seem too farcical to continue, I'll happily withdraw it.

themetfairy Jun 15 2009 07:55 AM

[quote="Rockin' Doc":14c6qf5p]My thinking is far more in line with KC's on this point. I think 4.86 points to Takahashi for 1.2 innings of mop up in a humiliating loss is absurd, but to each their own. It's Edgy's vote and he may distribute his Schaeffer any way he sees fit as long as it is within the established rules.[/quote:14c6qf5p] I'll jump onto this bandwagon.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 15 2009 08:12 AM

Voting for Thursday night's loss to the Phillies will close some time on Tuesday: Schaefer POTG 6/11/09 - Phillies 6, Mets 3 Look for a similar announcement tomorrow about the three-game series in the Bronx closing on Wednesday.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2009 08:30 AM

[quote="themetfairy":38es0xd5][quote="Rockin' Doc":38es0xd5]My thinking is far more in line with KC's on this point. I think 4.86 points to Takahashi for 1.2 innings of mop up in a humiliating loss is absurd, but to each their own. It's Edgy's vote and he may distribute his Schaeffer any way he sees fit as long as it is within the established rules.[/quote:38es0xd5] I'll jump onto this bandwagon.[/quote:38es0xd5] Yeah, understood.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2009 08:48 AM

If you're going to call me absurd, it would be cool if one of you would address me direcrtly.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 15 2009 10:29 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":2xb5l2po]If you're going to call me absurd, it would be cool if one of you would address me direcrtly.[/quote:2xb5l2po] Decades of subway training have taught me to avoid direct eye contact with mad scientists/paranoiacs (as well as amorous teens, dudes sitting in their own bodily fluids, and queer 20-year-old moms with purple hair and AIDS who just got out of jail for the fourth time) as much as possible. No offense.

Kong76 Jun 15 2009 11:50 AM

If my poking fun at Meister Brau voting and Dr. Edgy's methods has been a turn-off over the weekend that it's caused posters to not want to vote, I re- spectfully retract calling him a mad scientist. I will also stop commenting on his absu, er, I mean, how he chooses to disburse his Schaefer. I stand by Metseccentric, but half the posters here are Metseccentric.

metsmarathon Jun 15 2009 01:00 PM

games like yesterday's are the reason why i don't scale up to the 10 points. if i did, then edgy would'nt be feeling quite as absurd as he does/should. i'd be giving takahashi a solid 5 points! happily, i don't do that, and all he'll get out of me is 1.8 points. my reasoning is that it is theoretically possible where one player may be the only player who merits schaeffer voting. and in that scenario, the player will receive 6 points, as the 6 point max rule cannot be violated. and unless other players should be given beers without earning them, then it is entirely permissible to award fewer than the maximum of 10 total points. otherwise those schaeffer points awarded to players who have not earned them become meaningless. the way i've set up my system, it favors giving a full 10 points to most games, but the extraordinary condition exists whereby those 10 points cannot be awarded. right now, only about 1 in 10 games falls below that criteria, and last night was the first of those to fall below 5 awardable points.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 15 2009 01:28 PM

I useta give 10 allatime, but I kinda lost my passion for that when I saw nobody else jumping on board and I had trouble convincing myself it was the right thing to do each time. I do try to give 6 still and rarely less than 8. Still I'm the first to admit I'm Schafering like shit this year, not just in the consistency of voting game to game, but because my votes lack the conviction they used to have. I gotta admit, the Meister Brau thing did negatively affect my Schafering because it reminded me how lazy-assed and unfocused I was. Here were people voting for the Sucka of the game better than I could name the Star and it just depressed me. I gotta think up a new way to assign beer that revives my CAHNfidence but is also fast & easy because this halfassed shit I've been pulling off is an insult to the widow of Bob Murphy, or something.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2009 01:31 PM

Sheesh. Agfain I'm the subject but lefty to be discussed in the third person. Hello, I'm in the funking room. It's a rare bird of a game for me too and I was certainly tempted to post my meager six-point total. Are you nt you concerned about the ultimate statistical impact when we are otherwise forced to scale down to ten points on all other games, if we aren't scaling up on the shortfallers?

m.e.t.b.o.t. Jun 15 2009 02:06 PM

m.e.t.b.o.t. apologizes for distracting the discussion from the topic of human schaeffer voter edgy dc's aberrant voting behavior, but the events of the weekend have pushed to the forefront the added requirement that m.e.t.b.o.t. begin to consider the implications of defensive play behind the performances of a given pitcher. specifically, m.e.t.b.o.t. is addressing the baseline practice of assessing the outcome of the game ending pop fly error by human metropolitan second baseman luis castillo on friday night. from the time m.e.t.b.o.t. was first wound up, this outcome was assessed against the pitcher of record. m.e.t.b.o.t. acknowledges that this practice has met a negative reaction from many human schaeffer voting participants. in an effort to maintain maximum satisfaction amongst m.e.t.b.o.t.'s peers, regardless their biological or mechanical origin, m.e.t.b.o.t. has developed an updated schaeffer voting algorithm which is nearing implementation readiness. m.e.t.b.o.t. was lucky to have had a broken wristwatch recently discovered on the roadside from which numerous parts could be salvaged in the attempt to upgrade m.e.t.b.o.t. m.e.t.b.o.t. does not enjoy a significant, or even nominal, budget for capital improvements, and the recovery of this wristwatch was rather fortuitous. aside from the complex interplay of gears, pinions, cogs, and torsional springs, the essence of the upgrade lies in assessing the negative outcome of a defensive error against the defensive player, and not against the pitcher. this requires an addiitonal step of data processing, wherein after mining hte win percentage results from a given game, the play log must also be scoured for evidence of defensive errors committed, and then the win percentage must be debited from the committing defender, and credited to the responsible pitcher. for instance, in the game of friday, 12 june, 2009, metropolitan pitcher francisco rodriguez was credited with a -0.793 win percentage added for his efforts in the ninth inning of the referenced game. additionally, metropolitan second baseman luis castillo was credited with a -0.020 win percentage added for his offensive efforts. however, as human observers have noted, luis castillo can be considered responsible for the outcome of the game due to his defensive failure in the ninth inning. indeed, luis castillo was awarded an error for the pivotal play. with runners on first and second base, up one run with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th inning, the win expectancy for the metropolitans was 0.825, meaning the metropolitans had an 82% chance of winning at that point. obviously, with the error committed, and two runs scoring as a result, that win percentage dropped to 0.000. per the updated algorithm, that -0.825 WPA should be awarded to metropolitan second baseman luis castillo, and not metropolitan pitcher francisco rodriguez. this would mean that francisco rodriguez would be awarded +0.032 WPA instead of -0.793 WPA, and luis castillo would be awarded -0.845 WPA instead of -0.020 WPA. m.e.t.b.o.t. intends to implement this updated methodology shortly, but first requests input from fellow cranepoolforum participants into the advantages and disadvantages of this update. were this to be implemented into m.e.t.b.o.t.'s actual voting for the game in question, the following would be the outcome: player old votes new votes delta votes Wright 2.38 2.31 -0.07 Beltran 2.33 2.27 -0.06 Church 1.98 1.92 -0.06 Green 1.37 1.33 -0.04 Sheffield 0.84 0.82 -0.02 Feliciano 0.71 0.69 -0.02 Murphy 0.28 0.28 0.00 Schneider 0.12 0.11 -0.01 Rodriguez 0.00 0.28 +0.28

metsmarathon Jun 15 2009 02:12 PM

[quote="Edgy DC"]Are you nt you concerned about the ultimate statistical impact when we are otherwise forced to scale down to ten points on all other games, if we aren't scaling up on the shortfallers?

that's actually what led me to boost the absolute value of saves and, to a lesser extent, holds and other positive things relievers do, as closers and 8th inning guys get screwed mercilessly by that scaling down process.

i'm at the point where i think i'm reasonably happy with both my absolute and scaled results over the course of a long season, and within games. i feel like there's sometimes more i should include, but sometimes adding it makes my system all the more cumbersome.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 16 2009 08:52 AM

All three games from this past weekend's series in the Bronx will close some time on Wednesday. Schaefer POTG 6/12/09 - MFYs 9, Mets 8 Schaefer POTG 6/13/09 - Mets 6, MFYs 2 Schaefer POTG 6/14/09 - Mets sniffle, MFYs 15

Benjamin Grimm Jun 18 2009 10:26 AM

Voting for Tuesday night's win over the Orioles in Baltimore will close some time on Friday: Schaefer POTG 6/16/09 - Mets 6, Orioles 4 If you're one of those who are still participating and you haven't voted yet, please try to do so today.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 22 2009 11:14 AM

The remaining two games from last week's series in Baltimore will close on Tuesday afternoon: Schaefer POTG 6/17/09 - Mets 4, Orioles 6 Schaefer POTG 6/18/09 - Orioles 5, Mets 4

Benjamin Grimm Jun 23 2009 07:33 AM

Still a couple of hours before the Baltimore games close, but meanwhile, the entire three-game weekend series against Tampa Bay will close some time tomorrow. Sunday's game is especially light on votes. We've only heard from Hawkeye57, LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr, themetfairy, Edgy DC, Gwreck, Rockin' Doc, and Benjamin Grimm. Schaefer POTG 6/19/09 - Mets 5, Rays 3 Schaefer POTG 6/20/09 - Rays 3, Mets 1 Schaefer POTG 6/21/09 - Rays 10, Mets 6

Benjamin Grimm Jun 24 2009 09:19 AM

Voting for Monday night's win over the Cardinals in Queens will close some time on Thursday: Schaefer POTG 6/22/09 - Mets 6, Cardinals 4 This game is very lightly voted, especially for a Mets win. So far we've only heard from themetfairy, LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr, Edgy DC, Benjamin Grimm, Frayed Knot, and Fman99. If you're still participating in this exercise and you haven't yet voted for Monday's game, please try to do so today.

Edgy DC Jun 24 2009 09:25 AM

I've got to check my work there. it looks like I undervoteed Redding.

Edgy DC Jun 24 2009 09:05 PM

Hey, Schaefer voters, remember, that's AReyes.

Elster88 Jun 24 2009 10:25 PM

I love you metbot

m.e.t.b.o.t. Jun 25 2009 09:17 AM

m.e.t.b.o.t. considers the above to be tacit acknowledgment that the new methodology proposed earlier to be fundamentally sound, and ready to be implemented in actual schaeffer voting. the impact of htis methodology is again shown in the game from 23 june. according to the earlier method, metropolitan pitcher livan hernandez would not have been awarded any schaeffer votes, as his total pitching contribution was -0.030 WPA. however, this negative win probability was the result of the error committed by metropolitan first baseman daniel murphy. this play resulted in a -0.142 win percentage. prior to this play, the metropolitans had a 40.0% chance of winning the game, with the score tied at zero, and runners on first and second with no outs in the third inning. as a result of this play, with runners on second and third and no outs, losing 1-0, the metropolitans had a 25.7% chance of winning. this delta is now attributed to daniel murphy, and not livan hernandez. as a result, livan hernandez is credited with a total of 0.112 WPA for the game, which results in 4.48 schaeffer votes. the votes given to metropolitan relief pitcher elmer dessens and metropolitan outfielder jeremy reed are unchanged by this process. were m.e.t.b.o.t. still calculating meisterbrau sucker of the game votes, daniel murphy would have recieved 3.37 votes with the new methodology, and 1.66 with the old methodology. all other votes for suckers of the game would have been decreased to maintain a maximum of 10 votes total.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 26 2009 06:38 AM

Tuesday's loss to the Cardinals, and Wednesday's win, will close some time over the weekend. (Or on Monday.) Surprisingly, there are currently more votes for a game in which the Mets lost a two-hit shutout than there are for an 11-0 victory. Regardless, if you plan to vote for either of these games, try to do so today. I may, if I get the opportunity, close them out as early as tomorrow morning. Schaefer POTG 6/23/09 - Cardinals 3, Mets 0 Schaefer POTG 6/24/09 - Mets 11, Cardinals 0

Fman99 Jun 27 2009 08:51 PM

Voting is quick when so few of the Mets do anything worth a damn.

Edgy DC Jun 27 2009 09:07 PM

It's so easy to vote for scrubs It's so easy to vote for scrubs Batters swing and batters miss My ballot ain't got room for this Seems so easy (so easy) Yeah, so doggone easy (so easy) Oh it seems so easy (so easy) Yeah when the Mets suck ass My vote comes fast It's so easy to vote for scrubs It's so easy to vote for scrubs Pitcher's bombed in six again Save the beer for mopup men Seems so easy (so easy) Yeah, so doggone easy (so easy) Oh it seems so easy (so easy) Yeah when Mets lay bricks My vote comes quicks Seems so easy (so easy) Yeah, so doggone easy (so easy) Oh it seems so easy (so easy) Yeah when Mets blow goats We cast our votes Oh, it's so easy to vote for scrubs It's so easy to vote for scrubs

Fman99 Jun 27 2009 09:11 PM

[quote="Edgy DC":3ffl3fuj]It's so easy to vote for scrubs It's so easy to vote for scrubs Batters swing and batters miss My ballot ain't got room for this Seems so easy (so easy) Yeah, so doggone easy (so easy) Oh it seems so easy (so easy) Yeah when the Mets suck ass My vote comes fast It's so easy to vote for scrubs It's so easy to vote for scrubs Pitcher's bombed in six again Save the beer for mopup men Seems so easy (so easy) Yeah, so doggone easy (so easy) Oh it seems so easy (so easy) Yeah when Mets lay bricks My vote comes quicks Seems so easy (so easy) Yeah, so doggone easy (so easy) Oh it seems so easy (so easy) Yeah when Mets blow goats We cast our votes Oh, it's so easy to vote for scrubs It's so easy to vote for scrubs[/quote:3ffl3fuj] Bravo. See, this is why I'll never win the CPF song parody contest. You guys are in training year round.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 30 2009 06:49 AM

I haven't been very Mets-motivated lately, but I finally got myself caught up this morning... I updated the stats and pasted five box scores into the UMDB. Now it's time to catch up on Schaefering. Four games will close some time on Wednesday, the series finale against the Cardinals (a win!) and all three games from the Citi Field Subway Series games against the Yankees. Understandably, not a whole lot of votes for the three losses, but if you still have points to award, please try to do so today. Schaefer POTG 06/25/2009 Mets 3, St. Louis 2 Schaefer POTG 6/26/09 - Yankees 9, New York 1 Schaefer POTG 6/27/09 - MFYs 5, Mets 0 Schaefer POTG 6/28/09 - MFYs 4, Mets 2

Benjamin Grimm Jul 01 2009 08:52 AM

Voting for Monday night's loss in Milwaukee will close some time on Thursday. Schaefer POTG 6/29/09 - Brewers 10, Mets 6

Centerfield Jul 01 2009 08:54 AM

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":cenzbas7]I haven't been very Mets-motivated lately [/quote:cenzbas7] Understandable. Neither have the Mets.

Edgy DC Jul 01 2009 08:56 AM

I'm really up in the air on wh the PotM is going to be. Sheffield, I guess. Nieve gets the pitching nod and Greeen maybe the relief slot.

themetfairy Jul 01 2009 08:35 PM

I'm missing something - what did Evans do to earn so many Schaefer votes today?

Edgy DC Jul 01 2009 09:40 PM

Well, there are ten votes and he looks like this on the ten ballots 0 0 0.25 0.5 0 0 0 0.5 0.16 0.2 That's an average of .16 points per ballot, so I'd dispute that he's getting any meaningful support. What he did was hit a double and finish a few doubleplays. Not much, in the light of a GiDP and a couple of LoBs including one in scoring position wth two out. Not much, but neither did he get much.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 02 2009 07:15 AM

Voting for Tuesday night's loss in Milwaukee, and the entire month of June, will close some time over the three-day weekend. Schaefer POTG 6/30/09 - Brewers 6, Mets 3

Benjamin Grimm Jul 06 2009 09:37 AM

I'm going to fall a little behind on the tallying, since I have some box score fixing to do on the UMDB. I'll probably get us caught up later in the week, but feel free to keep voting on any games from the month of July. Also, I'll be disappearing for two weeks shortly after the All-Star break, but all will be caught up not too long after I return in early August.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 07 2009 07:57 AM

Okay, I'm ready sooner than I thought I would be. We have five games closing tomorrow: Schaefer POTG 7/1/09 - Mets 1, Brewers 0 Schaefer POTG 7/2/09 - Mets 9, Pirates 8 Schaefer POTG 7/3/09 - Phillies 7, Mets 2 Schaefer POTG 7/4/09 - Phillies 4, Mets 1 Schaefer POTG 7/5/09 - Phillies 2, Mets 0 If you still have votes to cast for any of these games, please try to do so today.

Edgy DC Jul 09 2009 08:32 AM

Nobody had anything but harsh words to say about Oliver Pere'x performanc in the IGT last night, but he's getting serious Schaefer support.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 09 2009 08:37 AM

It was only five innings, and he walked too many guys, but he only gave up 2 runs. (That's a 3.60 ERA for the day.) I think that's worth a point or two.

Edgy DC Jul 09 2009 08:52 AM

I think he's leading on everybody's ballot but mine. That performance is defensible, but hardly laudable. He was very lucky and one bounce away from a pear-shaping the whole game. Daniel Murphy had two doubles --- the first an emotional breakthrough --- and performed a magic trick, which was an emotional lift all its own. Reed had a single, double, walk, run, and RBI. Wright had two hits, a run, an RBI, and bailed out Perez by gloving a liner in the third and starting a double play in the fourth, ending both innings. These are the performances the Mets have been missing.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 09 2009 10:15 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":3sqz8j1j]I think he's leading on everybody's ballot but mine.[/quote:3sqz8j1j] And on mine. My eyes told me he was laboring-- reading a gamescore of 46 and 11 total baserunners in 5(!) innings when I got home confirmed what they saw. He gets a point for not falling apart with men on base-- the evening could have gone squash-shaped in the first-- and getting the win. The WTF play on Loretta will stick (even though he was safe, methinks).

Gwreck Jul 09 2009 10:36 AM

Reed leads on my ballot.

Edgy DC Jul 09 2009 01:30 PM

Great. m.e.t.b.o.t. was similarly dispassionate in witholding points from Ollie. Early intervention seems to have been something of a cure, as the day is turning into a Reed/Murphy/Wright dogfight. Reed 16.92 Murphy 16.22 Wright 15.27 Parnell 11.66 Perez 9.49 Castillo 7.71 Schneider 5.25 Feliciano 4.65 Rodriguez 3.55 Green 2.99 Church 1.99 Sheffield 1.00

Benjamin Grimm Jul 13 2009 12:59 PM

All three games from the Dodgers series at Citi Field will close some time on Tuesday afternoon. Schaefer POTG 7/7/09 - Dodgers 8, Mets 0 Schaefer POTG 07/08/09 - Mets 5, Dodgers 4 Schaefer POTG 7/9/09 - Dodgers 11, Mets 2

The Second Spitter Jul 14 2009 12:50 AM

I feel kinda obligated to vote for the last Dodger game, but I'm afraid I had too many soda pops that night.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 14 2009 05:57 AM

Just bumping this to the current page, in case there are a few more voters out there. [quote="Benjamin Grimm":cqny4rpt]All three games from the Dodgers series at Citi Field will close some time on Tuesday afternoon. Schaefer POTG 7/7/09 - Dodgers 8, Mets 0 Schaefer POTG 07/08/09 - Mets 5, Dodgers 4 Schaefer POTG 7/9/09 - Dodgers 11, Mets 2 [/quote:cqny4rpt] I'll close the series against the Reds on Friday. (And I'll post the "official annoucement," with links, on Thursday.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 15 2009 08:09 AM

Number of POTG wins by Mets players so far this season, through July 9: Johan Santana  13 Livan Hernandez  10 Mike Pelfrey  9 Carlos Beltran  6 David Wright  5 Fernando Nieve  5 John Maine  5 Carlos Delgado  4 Ken Takahashi  3 Luis Castillo  3 Ryan Church  3 Tim Redding  3 Daniel Murphy  2 Fernando Tatis  2 Gary Sheffield  2 Brian Schneider  1 Brian Stokes  1 Elmer Dessens  1 Jeremy Reed  1 José Reyes  1 Oliver Perez  1 Pat Misch  1 Ramon Castro  1 Wilson Valdez  1

Edgy DC Jul 15 2009 08:21 AM

Fernando Nieve with as many wins as Wright.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 16 2009 07:23 AM

All three games from this past weekend's series against the Reds at Citi Field will close on Friday morning. This will be the last tally before I go away for a couple of weeks. Please keep voting and I'll get us caught up when I return in early August. (I may do some posting and voting while I'm away, since we recently got a cheap laptop that we'll be traveling with.) Schaefer POTG 07/10/09 - Mets 0, Redlegs 3 Schaefer POTG 7/11/09 - Mets 4, Reds 0 Schaefer POTG 07/12/09 Mets 9, Cincinnati 7

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 16 2009 08:57 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":34eajpkf]Fernando Nieve with as many wins as Wright.[/quote:34eajpkf] Lower power numbers + smacking the ball around the yard otherwise = whole lotta points in smaller clusters.

Frayed Knot Jul 29 2009 07:08 AM

We suck at Schaefer-ing lately. Without the threat of a deadline hanging over out heads we've let our PotG voting go to pot over the last week or so. I've just gone back and caught up after 5 days of neglect - and there are some games from the Brave series now on page 3 with only a handful of votes on them. Yeah, voting after losses suxx but (with the usual caveat where nothing is mandatory around here) we'd hate to see this project die of neglect.

Edgy DC Jul 29 2009 07:12 AM

Vote after losses, folks. It's fast and easy!

metsmarathon Jul 29 2009 08:53 AM

i am flat out awful at schaeffer voting this year. i need to get myself back on track...

Kong76 Jul 31 2009 02:07 PM

According to Vacation thread, you know who is gonna be back soon. VOTE VOTE VOTE The Schaefer Siesta is over.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 04 2009 07:04 AM

Hello, it's me, you-know-who! Schaefer tallying will resume some time this week. I've decided, since I've been completely ignoring the Mets for the last two weeks, that I won't review and vote the games that I missed. First I'll get caught up pasting the box scores into the UMDB, and then I'll turn my attention to Schaefer stuff. But let this be an alert that any games played prior to August 1 may close without any further announcements. Vote if you desire.

Edgy DC Aug 04 2009 08:26 AM

And lift up some hitters on occasion. Last night, Angel Pagan reached base three times in four trips, getting a single, a triple, and a walk. He stole a base, scored a run, and drove in another. And he did this from the top of the lineup while playing a key defensive position. Welcome back, Ben Grimm.

metsmarathon Aug 04 2009 09:23 AM

aw, crap...

Benjamin Grimm Aug 04 2009 01:44 PM

I've pasted the box scores for the following seven games into the UMDB, and they're due to be closed to Schaefer voting. I'll keep them open until Thursday morning, so if you want to vote, try to do so before the end of the day tomorrow. Schaefer POTG 7/16/09 - Braves 5, Mets 3 Schaefer POTG 7/17/09 - Braves 11, Mets 0 Schaefer POTG 7/18/09 - Mets 5, Braves 1 Schaefer POTG 7/19/09 - Braves 7, Mets 1 Schaefer POTG 7/20/09 - Mets 6, Nationals 2 Schaefer POTG 7/21/09 - Nationals 4, Mets 0 Schaefer POTG 7/22/09 - Nationals 3, Mets 1

Benjamin Grimm Aug 05 2009 02:02 PM

The games mentioned above are still open, and will be until at least tomorrow (Thursday) morning. Meanwhile, the games listed below are due to close on Friday morning. Schaefer POTG 7/24/09 - Astros 5, Mets 4 Schaefer POTG 7/25/09 - Mets 10, Astros 3 Schaefer POTG 7/26/09 - Mets 8, Astros 3 Schaefer POTG 7/27/09 - Mets 7, Rockies 3 Schaefer POTG 7/28/09 - Mets 4, Rockies 0 Schaefer POTG 7/30/09 - Game 1 - Mets 7, Rockies 0 Schaefer POTG 7/30/09, Game 2 - Rockies 4, Mets 2

Benjamin Grimm Aug 07 2009 09:51 AM

Voting for the entire four-game series against Arizona will close on Monday. Schaefer POTG 7/31/09 - Diamondbacks 3, Mets 2 Schaefer POTG 8/1/09 - Mets 9, Diamondbacks 6 Schaefer POTG 8/2/09 - Diamondbacks 5, Mets 2 Schaefer POTG 8/3/09 - Diamondbacks 6, Mets 5

Benjamin Grimm Aug 10 2009 11:58 AM

The following games will close... soon. Perhaps as early as tomorrow (Tuesday) morning. Schaefer POTG 8/4/09 - Cardinals 12, Mets 7 Schaefer POTG 8/5/09 - Mets 9, Cardinals 0 Schaefer PotG, 8/6, Padres 8, Mets 3

Benjamin Grimm Aug 11 2009 01:57 PM

Two more games about to close, some time tomorrow (Wednesday) Schaefer PotG, 8/7, Padres 6, Mets 2 Schaefer POTG 8/8/09 - Padres 3, Mets 1

Benjamin Grimm Aug 12 2009 11:54 AM

Two more games about to close, some time tomorrow (Thursday) and then we'll be all caught up. The Monday game against the Diamondbacks is very lightly voted, with only four votes so far. Schaefer POTG 8/9/09 - Mets 5, Padres 1 Schaefer POTG 8/10/09 - Diamondbacks 7, Mets 4

Frayed Knot Aug 12 2009 08:11 PM

As frustrating as Ollie was today (Wednesday) I'm going to give him at least of couple of sips for getting out of his jams most of the time. Also Omir had a tough day with the stick but had two very nice blocks of the plate (absolutely stole one run away) plus a sac bunt - yeah, I know, but it was well-timed, well-done, and it stayed out of a DP and built an insurance run late in the game.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 14 2009 06:59 AM

Since participation seems to be way down, I'm no longer going to go to the effort of posting reminders in this thread. If two or more business days have elapsed since the end of a game, and I'm in a Schaefering mood, I'll do the tallying without any warning. I understand the apathy; I feel it myself. Hopefully the Mets will have an inspiring offseason and I'll be more motivated to keep the Schaefer thing going in the new decade.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 14 2009 09:18 AM

[quote="Frayed Knot":3ejf99bm]As frustrating as Ollie was today (Wednesday) I'm going to give him at least of couple of sips for getting out of his jams most of the time. Also Omir had a tough day with the stick but had two very nice blocks of the plate (absolutely stole one run away) plus a sac bunt - yeah, I know, but it was well-timed, well-done, and it stayed out of a DP and built an insurance run late in the game.[/quote:3ejf99bm] I gave him a sip, too. But 2-plus points in a game where he EARNED his early removal? C'mon, people, now. And I was thisclose to giving Omir something... but, great as it was, the play at the plate-- he got absolutely trucked by Reynolds-- was futile. If Feliciano had taken the out at first, the same amount of runs likely ultimately score.

Edgy DC Aug 14 2009 09:28 AM

Ollie's the leading vote-getter! Turn back, people!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 14 2009 09:34 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":io9kmmis]Ollie's the leading vote-getter! Turn back, people![/quote:io9kmmis] (Figured that was the reason for the 'growling.')

Edgy DC Aug 16 2009 06:58 PM

Four runs in six and two thirds innings is not such an impressive show. Yet Santana, for this effort, is outpolling a field including a Luis Castillo day where he reached four times in five trips. He opened the game with an error, and that's not good, but he then handled five chances. It's an overall sweet show to see that kind of offense coming from a player in the middle of the diamond, and he subsequently scored half the Met runs on the day.

Kong76 Aug 16 2009 07:11 PM

I always vote higher than most for the starting pitcher.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 19 2009 09:41 AM

The entire four-game series against the Giants will close some time tomorrow.

Edgy DC Aug 19 2009 09:43 AM

[quote="Kong76":3kte6pmf]I always vote higher than most for the starting pitcher.[/quote:3kte6pmf] Are you voting Perez for yesterday?

Kong76 Aug 19 2009 01:44 PM

He'll probably get some cheap amber liquid.

Edgy DC Aug 19 2009 01:59 PM

Feed him, sure. But not like a king.

G-Fafif Aug 19 2009 02:03 PM

[quote="Kong76":1zibv8mq]I always vote higher than most[/quote:1zibv8mq] I hear Grant Roberts takes the same tack.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 19 2009 02:40 PM

[quote="Edgy DC":3b11as5y]Feed him, sure. But not like a king.[/quote:3b11as5y] As it stands, he gets a sip. If he hadn't singled at a key point yesterday and only walked one, he drinks his Schaefer from Sheffield's spillage.

Kong76 Aug 19 2009 07:31 PM

G-F: I hear Grant Roberts takes the same tack <<< Hah! That picture is still floating around if one googles Grant Roberts bong.

Kong76 Aug 20 2009 06:15 PM

I used to save up games and then labor over 3-4 at a time ... last two votes I've tried the 48 hour rule ... vote for one game within 48 hours. Try it, and vote for the rest of the season!

Rockin' Doc Aug 22 2009 09:09 PM

In past seasons, I often had a tendency to vote on series after the last game was played. This season, I have tried to vote on games more expediently, but that isn't always easy to do when I'm away from home and not able to get online much.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 25 2009 07:03 PM

The series against the Phillies will be closing... soon. Very few votes for most of the games. I'll keep the Monday afternoon game open until at least Thursday, but the first three games of the series may close as early as tomorrow (Wednesday) if I feel the urge to do so. Please be sure to vote!

Benjamin Grimm Aug 30 2009 06:34 AM

Don't forget to vote the Marlins series. (August 25, 26, 27.) The voting will be closed for those games on Tuesday. The Mets one win in that series, August 27, has the fewest votes of all three, which is kind of strange.

Rockin' Doc Aug 30 2009 07:21 AM

Ben Grimm - "The Mets one win in that series, August 27, has the fewest votes of all three, which is kind of strange." As rare a commodity as Mets victories have become lately, maybe the voters are still in shock.

Kong76 Aug 30 2009 08:01 AM

I forgot how to do happy suds.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 08 2009 10:36 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

Voting for the September 3 series finale against the Rockies (an 8-3 Mets win) will close some time tomorrow. www.cranepoolforum.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12412 Only five voters so far.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 09 2009 12:00 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

Voting for all three games against the Cubs will close sometime on Thursday: September 4 www.cranepoolforum.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12422 September 5 www.cranepoolforum.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12428 September 6 www.cranepoolforum.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12432

Rockin' Doc Sep 11 2009 06:41 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

metbot must be a huge fan of the walk. For the 9/9 loss to the Marlins, Metbot awarded Sullivan 2.04 points for an 0-1 performance in which he drew a walk as an 8th inning pinch hitter for Nick Evans. Granted, the Mets offense is pretty anemic, but that's high regard for a walk. Pagan went 2-4 with the Mets lone extra base hit and garnered no points from metbot. I think someone best check to see that metbot wasn't overwound or something.

Edgy DC Sep 12 2009 12:52 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

Figgy allowed 15 baserunners in 5 1/3 innings. It's hard for me to award him anything, much less name him the PotG.

Frayed Knot Sep 12 2009 02:24 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

I gave him a token for stranding all those runners and dancing between the raindrops as long as he did.

m.e.t.b.o.t. Sep 14 2009 01:06 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

[quote="Rockin' Doc":1uzfegzt]metbot must be a huge fan of the walk. For the 9/9 loss to the Marlins, Metbot awarded Sullivan 2.04 points for an 0-1 performance in which he drew a walk as an 8th inning pinch hitter for Nick Evans. Granted, the Mets offense is pretty anemic, but that's high regard for a walk. Pagan went 2-4 with the Mets lone extra base hit and garnered no points from metbot. I think someone best check to see that metbot wasn't overwound or something.[/quote:1uzfegzt] while m.e.t.b.o.t. is but a handmade springwound contraption whose inner workings even m.e.t.b.o.t.'s creator does not fully understand, the process by which m.e.t.b.o.t. is initiated via winding the winding of a skate key is fairly consistent and is frequently calibrated against a known torque standard. m.e.t.b.o.t. is also equipped with a ratcheting feature which prohibits an excessive torque from being inputted into m.e.t.b.o.t.'s delicate clockwork mechanisms. m.e.t.b.o.t. assures himap poster rockin' doc that m.e.t.b.o.t. awarded a mathematically apporopriate quantity of schaeffer points to metropolitan pinch hitter cory sullivan. at the time cory sullivan entered the game, the score was 3-6, in the bottom of the 8th inning. given the score and the inning, the home team had only an 8.9% chance of winning the game. with cory sullivan reaching first base via a walk, with no outs in the bottom of the 8th, the team losing the game 3-6 now had a 13.9% chance of winning the game. in drawing that walk, cory sullivan increased the win expectancy for the metropolitans by 0.051, or 5.1%. because ther were few metropolitans with positive contributions to the win expectancy of that game, that 0.051 win expectancy added is multiplied by 40 to convert to schaeffer points, per the system m.e.t.b.o.t. has been programed to use. (if the positive contributions to win expectancy total greater than 0.250, then the resulting conversion totals greater than the maximum allowable 10 points for schaeffer voting, and those resulting points are scaled appropriately to 10) (m.e.t.b.o.t. is testing a new parellel communication tool which utilizes parentheses to separate out off topic, but still-relevant, information to better aid communication with human posters.) in the same game, metropolitan outfielder angel pagan singled to lead off the first inning, which yielded a +0.031 win expectancy. in his second at bat, angel pagan flied out to shortstop, down 0-4 with 2 outs in the bottom of the third, which yielded a -0.008 win expectancy. losing 0-5 with two outs in the 6th inning, and the bases empty, angel pagan hit a ground rule double which yielded a +0.009 win expectancy. finally, with the metropolitans trailing 3-6 in the 8th inning, with no outs and a man on first base, angel pagan hit into a double play, which yielded in a -0.096 win expectancy. the total win expectancy contributed by angel pagan for the game is therefore + 0.031 - 0.008 + 0.009 - 0.096 = -0.064. m.e.t.b.o.t. is not programmed to award schaeffer votes for players whose performances yield negative net contributions to win expectancy.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 14 2009 01:24 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

I'll be closing out the September 10 game some time tomorrow (Tuesday) Link

Benjamin Grimm Sep 15 2009 06:57 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

I'll probably close out all four games against the Phillies this pas weekend sometime on Wednesday. If not then, then Thursday.

Ashie62 Sep 15 2009 07:39 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

I think m.e.t.b.o.t. overheated

Benjamin Grimm Sep 20 2009 07:18 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

Voting for the September 16 and 17 games will close on Tuesday. Only five votes so far for the game of the 17th.

Rockin' Doc Sep 20 2009 08:12 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

I've been away visiting my father for a few days. I will try to vote on the games that I have missed, tomorrow evening.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2009 02:50 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

If anyone is inclined to vote for any of the three games against Washington from this past weekend (September 18, 19, and 20) please try to do so before the end of the day on Tuesday, as I'll be closing them out some time on Wednesday. Very few votes so far. I know this has been a miserable season, and it's hard to pay too much attention to the Mets these days, but we're almost at the end of the line here. Let's try to hang in there with the Schaefer voting for just a couple of more weeks.

Rockin' Doc Sep 21 2009 09:12 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

In the voting for the Mets 6-5 loss to the Nationals on 9/18, I noticed that Edgy awarded 0.29 Schaefer points to Misch. I don't believe Misch appeared in that game. In Edgy's defense, Misch may have contributed as much towards the Mets efforts in that game as did some of his teammates that actually played.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2009 05:35 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

I'll fix that. My table went out of alignment when Maine rejoined the team. If I don't fix it before the tabulation, please disregard my vote. I'm with the 'b.o.t. on Sully. And I think he's getting screwed on a more recent game where he pinch-walked and scored, but is being left out off of several ballots.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 27 2009 03:37 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

Voting for this game: Schaefer POTG 9/23/09 - Braves 5, Mets 2 will close some time on Monday, September 28. Voting for the three games in Miami will remain open at least through Wednesday. Saturday's game, if you're so inclined, could use some more votes.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 01 2009 08:18 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

Even though there are only five voters so far, voting for the September 28 game (Monday) in Washington may close some time in the next hour or two. If not, I'll close it tomorrow. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12589

Benjamin Grimm Oct 02 2009 07:58 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

Voting will continue through the weekend for the September 30 game ( viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12599 ) but it's seems pretty certain that this month will feature three first-time winners (Player, Pitcher, and Reliever of the Month), and thus, the debut of three all-new retro baseball cards. All will be revealed early next week. There will be no POTM for October, but the three games will count towards the annual totals. The Player and Pitcher of the Year were decided a while ago, but the Reliever race is still in doubt. Stay tuned... And as for whether Schaefer continues into 2010, I suspect it will (as long as the forum is still here, of course.) A lot of the disinterest this year is probably due to overall disinterest in the Mets, so I imagine voting will pick up in April when all is sunny and hopeful. And even if it doesn't, my magic spreadsheet does 95% of the work anyway, so the tallying isn't much of a burden. But I'll make a final decision on 2010 as spring training nears a close.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 05 2009 09:35 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

Voting for all three games of the season-ending series against Houston will close on Wedneday. (Or maybe Thursday. But if you have votes that you want to cast, try to get them in today or tomorrow.) The final totals for Schaefer Mets Player of the Year will be announced once the Astros games are closed. I don't expect that anyone will be thrilled with the results, but it is what it is.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2009 10:35 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

I've really enjoyed voting this year, I still think peeps have over-rated starting pitchers, perhaps because they get voted first by people, and they get voted on by a consistent game-to-game scale. "Yesterday's pitcher got a 3.4 and today's guy was a little worse so I'll give him a 3.1." But the batters get voted on afterwards on a scale of how many points are left after the pitchers got theirs. So while a pitcher throwing six innings and giving up three runs will often get the same number of points no matter the game score, a batter who goes 2-3 with a walk, a double, and an RBI gets a different number of points from game-to-game depending on the game score. I'm just speculating the reasons why. I think I've undervalued starting pitchers, on the other hand, as I penalize them as many points for three hitless at-bats and leaving four guys on base as I would penalize a full-time batter, and that can really cut into the points earned by their pitching.

metsmarathon Oct 06 2009 08:34 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

good heavens, i've gotten derailed in my schaeffer voting so easily this year...

Benjamin Grimm Oct 06 2009 08:43 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

[quote="Edgy DC":1ieocd2s]I've really enjoyed voting this year[/quote:1ieocd2s] I also think it's fun. I'm sure that most of the decline in participation in this is because of the awful way the season unfolded; it's much easier to not pay attention in a year like 2009. But I wonder if this thread somehow discourages voting as well. If people are reluctant to vote because their selections might be criticized in this thread.

Edgy DC Oct 06 2009 08:45 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

Honoring disagreement should be the hallmark of a forum like this. OE: I'm editing an article RIGHT NOW!!!! about non-profit boards with this paragraph: Lesson #1 --- Encourage Dissent This is a lesson that took years for me to understand, but it resonates more and more. The best decisions come from a group that has the opportunity to present a diverse set of viewpoints, engage in meaningful debate, and then reach consesus that all members can fully support. But that first step has to be to get different opinions on the table. This is not something that will happen aoutmatically. It has to be encouraged.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 06 2009 08:46 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

I'm not saying there shouldn't be discussion. I'm just wondering if it intimidates some people.

Edgy DC Oct 06 2009 08:50 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

Another quote: During my first year as chair of our board, we actually gave out a price at our meetings for best dissent. That goes to Lunchbucket today.

themetfairy Oct 06 2009 09:04 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":2gx3r6oj]I wonder if this thread somehow discourages voting as well. If people are reluctant to vote because their selections might be criticized in this thread.[/quote:2gx3r6oj] I think that's a valid concern BG.

metsmarathon Oct 06 2009 09:25 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

i like being challenged on my voting. it forces me to relook at my assumptions and formulae, and see if there's something i'm missing and can better quantify. i'm actually surprised i don't get challenged more. could be that nobody cares what i think. m.e.t.b.o.t. seems to get challenged every now and again, and while he's literally quite the pushover, i think he stands his ground fairly well in the figurative sense. i've worked with the little fellow to incorporate fielding miscues into his voting, and i think we've got an approach for incorporating good defensive plays as well. there will be some spring training tinkering this year i think. baserunning mistakes and the like may be outside his range, however.

Edgy DC Oct 06 2009 09:36 AM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

m.e.t.b.o.t. thinks "spring training" is testing the resiliency of his springs under increasing amounts of torsion.

G-Fafif Oct 06 2009 12:30 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

[quote="Edgy DC"]Another quote: During my first year as chair of our board, we actually gave out a price at our meetings for best dissent.

Only because the above is from something you're editing, that's "prize," not price (one assumes).

Edgy DC Oct 06 2009 12:44 PM Re: Schaefer Voting Discussion Thread

Thanks. Double checking and it's write/right in the document.