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="seawolf17":1wgrq2vn]I think that's a tone-of-voice question.[/quote:1wgrq2vn]
Yeah, those quotes, particularly the second one, can be read as an attempt to embrace a broad perspective rather than throw Gus under the bus.
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batmagadanleadoff
Apr 13 2009 10:19 AM
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="Edgy DC":ncy7chto]="seawolf17":ncy7chto]I think that's a tone-of-voice question.[/quote:ncy7chto]
Yeah, those quotes, particularly the second one, can be read as an attempt to embrace a broad perspective rather than throw Gus under the bus.[/quote:ncy7chto]
My exact thoughts on that second quote, too.
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Edgy DC
Apr 13 2009 10:22 AM
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I think maybe it's somewhere in the middle. He's trying to be Buddha, but some frustration leaks out nonetheless. Given a chance to reword it, he might have sounded more generous.
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Frayed Knot
Apr 13 2009 10:23 AM
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Change Santana's name to 'Glavine' and fans would be roasting the hell out of him right now.
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metirish
Apr 13 2009 10:38 AM
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I think Johan upon reflection will see that he was wrong and call his newborn Murphy to show that he is a great teammate.
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Swan Swan H
Apr 13 2009 10:57 AM
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Johan gets asked if Murphy's error cost the Mets the game. I think he has three options:
- What he did, which is say yes, and try to give Murphy some cover (from Newsday: "I'm pretty sure he was trying his best right there and it didn't work out. Tomorrow is a new day, and hopefully, everything will work out for him.")
- Blame the offense, which opens up a different can o'worms. Then he's blaming eight guys, Murphy included.
- Get all Torborgy about it, and throw a bunch of we're all in this together quotes out there, and look like an idiot in the process.
Honest is the only way to go here. Murphy clanked one, and it cost them a game. If he can't handle that extremely mild criticism, well, change his number to 9 and put him in the pool for some swings.
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Edgy DC
Apr 13 2009 11:01 AM
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"He knows he made a mistake, but we win as a team, lose as a team, and I'm sure there'll be days he'll be bailing us all out."
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RealityChuck
Apr 13 2009 11:04 AM
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What makes this a "call out"?
Johann is merely stating facts. He's not criticizing Murphy particularly. He's not saying he's a terrible fielder. Everyone knows that Murphy is still learning the position, and will be making mistakes. If anything Johann is being classy -- acknowledging the fact, but minimizing it.
It's the press that wants to turn a pretty innocuous statement into bad blood -- since bad blood sells newspapers. The question was asked to see if any controversy could be raised. When Johann is noncommittal, they twist things to turn it into a story.
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Swan Swan H
Apr 13 2009 11:10 AM
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Edgy, what you said is pretty much what Johan said. The first part makes the headline, though.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Apr 13 2009 11:11 AM
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Didn't people give Willie crap for NOT calling a spade a spade, and always one-game-at-a-time-ing it for the press? Don't a lot of folk yearn for the simple cut-the-bullshit of guys like back-in-the-day Keith and Seaver? Well, here's your hombre, plain and tall (and broad-shouldered).
I think the statement reads a lot harsher than it sounded; it's a matter of tone, context and source-- Johan earned an arm's worth of stripes with last year's stretch run.
Secondly, I'd worry a lot more about the echo-chamber-ing of this if the comments didn't come a day before Opening-Day-at-new-stadium; as it stands, this'll get lost in the churn of that batch of stories.
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batmagadanleadoff
Apr 13 2009 11:14 AM
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But you can make the argument that Murphy didn't necessarily cost the team the game. (Or at least I can). Every single Met that took an at-bat without homering can be said to have cost the team the game, including Santana who himself had three plate appearances. I realize that the expectation that Murph would catch a routine fly ball is considerably higher than that of any Met homering. But if not a homer, then what about back to back doubles? Or a long hit in the ninth right after Beltran's single? A team ought to win a game when it holds the opposition to two runs. If Murph never erred; if Fla's two runs were earned -- the result of back to back homers -- wouldn't the media be critical of the Mets offense?
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GYC
Apr 13 2009 11:16 AM
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It was a comically bad play that was wrong in so, so many ways: he broke in
first, he then had to back pedal, he didn't settle under the ball (never catch it
while moving), he reached up with one hand instead of two, he looked away
from the ball as it neared his glove... The only proper thing Murphy did on
that play was reach with his glove hand instead of his barehand. He deserves
criticism, especially since it would have ended the inning and it allowed two
runs.
I don't think Johan was being overly harsh or anything. He spoke the truth.
I'd like to hear audio, though, for the context and tone of voice. And I'd like
to know how Murphy reacted to what Johan said.
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Farmer Ted
Apr 13 2009 11:18 AM
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I'm looking forward to a game winning hit by Murph to see Santana's reaction. If the guy fucks up, pull him aside in the clubhouse and hash it out.
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metsmarathon
Apr 13 2009 11:19 AM
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i'm sorry, but i cannot for the life of me imagine johan spitting out that quote in anger and disgust in his fellow teammates carelessness.
what i can imagine is johan using those same words in an attempt to be diplomatic about his teammate who is obviously still making his way up the learning curve, on a big stage.
it obviously could go either way depending on the question asked and the tone of voice. for something like this, i'd really like to hear the way it was said. if it were cut and dry, like if johan had said somehting like 'i don't know what the hell he was thinking or why he's even out there in the first place, but he ruined my pristine outing and i'm sick of it!' then it'd be easier to figure out.
there's enough qualifiers in both johan quotes that, to me, come across as judicious and diplomatic, not throwing a bus onto his teammate.
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Edgy DC
Apr 13 2009 11:52 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 13 2009 12:04 PM
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A lot of things here.
| ]What makes this a "call out"?
Johann is merely stating facts. He's not criticizing Murphy particularly. He's not saying he's a terrible fielder. Everyone knows that Murphy is still learning the position, and will be making mistakes. If anything Johann is being classy -- acknowledging the fact, but minimizing it. |
A lot of people get paid to state the facts. What a teammate --- particularly a more secure, higher profile teammate --- can do is minimize it. You say he did, and he seems to have been trying to, but Murphy didn't cost them the game alone. A lot of silent bats helped.
| ="RealityChuck"]It's the press that wants to turn a pretty innocuous statement into bad blood -- since bad blood sells newspapers. |
That's quite possilbe, but Johan may have a learning curve of his own to deal with here.
| ="SwanSwanH"]Edgy, what you said is pretty much what Johan said. The first part makes the headline, though. |
Maybe, but I think there's some ambiguity.
| ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]Didn't people give Willie crap for NOT calling a spade a spade, and always one-game-at-a-time-ing it for the press? Don't a lot of folk yearn for the simple cut-the-bullshit of guys like back-in-the-day Keith and Seaver? |
I don't think what I suggested is bullshit. And I think the Mets have had plenty of outspoken types in recent years --- LoDuca and Wagner spring to mind.
| ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]I think the statement reads a lot harsher than it sounded; |
Maybe indeed.
| ="batmagadanleadoff"]But you can make the argument that Murphy didn't necessarily cost the team the game. (Or at least I can). |
That's where I think Santana falls down --- or the quote clanks out of his glove, if you will.
| ="GYC"]He deserves criticism, especially since it would have ended the inning and it allowed two runs. |
Deserving criticism is one thing, but it's typically not a teammate's place to provide it and provide it publickly.
| ="Farmer Ted"]If the guy fucks up, pull him aside in the clubhouse and hash it out. |
There's an alternative.
| ="metsmarathon"]i'm sorry, but i cannot for the life of me imagine johan spitting out that quote in anger and disgust in his fellow teammates carelessness. |
I'm betting that Johan was attempting to say something better and it came out wrong. But I don't think a harsher intent is beyond the realm of imagination. Moreover, whatever the intent, I just hope that the comment or any repercussions of it don't serve to undercut Murphy. I guess that's very Alan Lans of me.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Apr 13 2009 11:56 AM
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Can't seem to find audio anywhere at the moment.
Heard the snippets on WFAN while driving-- even out-of-context, they sounded measured and reasonable, with nary a tinge of blame or whinging(Murphy, as you might guess, sounded miserable with himself). An auxilliary benefit of the gentle public admonition-- it allows Manuel to strike the conciliatory, let's-everybody-relax grace notes that seem to be his forte, PR-wise:
"Here, you have a young man who works extremely hard and he's getting better," manager Jerry Manuel said of Murphy. "He's getting better. I don't think you're going to see that type of stuff from him on a regular basis. I really don't. I think that's just something that out of nowhere happened."
It's early, but for all the Carlos/David talk about clubhouse leadership/captaindom... for better or worse, here's your guy. The team goes as Johan goes, methinks, in a lot more ways than the win column can measure.
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metsguyinmichigan
Apr 13 2009 12:01 PM
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It's part of the learning process. Does anybody doubt that Murph is kicking himself harder than Santana is kicking him?
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Apr 13 2009 12:03 PM
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He better be.
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metirish
Apr 13 2009 01:23 PM
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From Lennon over at Newsday
Daniel Murphy promised he would work hard to improve after Sunday's costly drop and that's exactly what he is doing this afternoon. Murphy was shagging fly balls off the bat of coach Razor Shines to help him get accustomed to leftfield here at Citi and now Gary Sheffield is doing the same in right.
It's been a mixed bag so far. Sheffield made a running catch at the warning track a moment ago, but then had a deep ball sail over his glove as he reached toward the fence.
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*62
Apr 13 2009 03:38 PM
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(Miami) After losing 7 or 8 W's to the bullpen last season, and now losing a shutout to a misplayed fly ball, Santana has to be one pi$$ed off hombre.
Fish fans down here, all eleventy of them, are crowing like mad.
Murphy might should have been shagging extra flies SATURDAY.
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Rockin' Doc
Apr 13 2009 04:08 PM
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It appears that Santana may have just a little touch of Wagner in him.
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