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Citi Field: First Impressions from the Front Line

batmagadanleadoff Apr 19 2009 06:09 PM

Notes: Braun awed by park's dimensions Slugger says Citi Field unkind to hitters By Tom Haudricourt of the Journal Sentinel Posted: Apr. 18, 2009 New York - Ryan Braun is happy he plays his home games at Miller Park instead of Citi Field. "I wouldn't be overly excited about playing 81 games here as a hitter," said the Brewers' leftfielder. The New York Mets' new ballpark is in its infancy, but it does appear to favor pitchers more than hitters. It's 384 feet to left-center field, and except for in the very corner, the leftfield wall is 16 feet high. The ballpark is deeper to right center (415 feet) than straightaway center (408). The rightfield wall also drops back for several feet and is elevated in that area to 19 feet as a promotion for a local sporting goods store. "There aren't going to be many home runs to the middle of the field," said Braun. "You've got to get it pretty good." "You notice it in batting practice. We were centering up balls that went off the wall or barely out. Braun lined his first home run of the season Friday night in one of the few places where the wall slopes down - in the left-field corner. But Braun doesn't think there will be many cheapies over the course of a season. "I wouldn't be surprised if it plays similar to (San Diego's) PETCO Park," he said. "I really wouldn't. It would take more time to see it but it's big with those high fences. And the infield grass is thick. "At Shea (Stadium), the wind was able to blow out. Here, they have big grandstands in the back so the wind can't blow out. I thought Shea played small. "I'm sure their hitters are already talking about it. It'll be interesting to see how the ball carries in the summer." http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/43233377.html

batmagadanleadoff Apr 19 2009 06:11 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 19 2009 06:42 PM

The new Yankee Stadium's home run problem Sunday, April 19, 2009 Sure, there are a handful of problems that need to be sorted out in Citi Field, the Mets' new ballpark. The visiting relievers can't really see the games from their bullpen in right-center field, and their video screen operates with a delay of about 15 seconds (by the count of the Brewers' relievers). There is little hot water and no music in the visiting clubhouse, and they need to squeegee out the whirlpool because of a drainage issue. But those are minor details that can be ironed out eventually. The Yankees, on the other hand, might have a whopper of a problem on their hands that could have long-term, big-picture ramifications for them. Their new ballpark is playing like Coors Field East.... Meanwhile, over at Citi Field on Saturday, J.J. Hardy blistered a fourth-inning pitch from Johan Santana toward left-center field -- a long drive that, in Milwaukee, probably would've landed near the Pfister Hotel downtown. But Citi Field is enormous between right-center and left-center, like a hybrid of Petco Park and the Giants' home field, as one Padre described it to a Mets compatriot earlier this week. Beltran raced back, slowed in front of the left-center-field wall and caught the ball on the front edge of the warning track. After some visiting players saw the park recently, they predicted that Mets hitters will soon have some unflattering things to say about the dimensions. Milwaukee left fielder Ryan Braun is awed by the dimensions. The Yankees would love to have those kinds of issues now. [url=http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4081034&name=olney_buster&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d4081034%26name%3dolney_buster]link to article[/url]

batmagadanleadoff Apr 19 2009 06:22 PM

CitiField: Homeruns Will Be Scarce For David Wright and Carlos Beltran I caught a few innings of the Mets home opener at their new ballpark on Monday night and the ESPN announcers couldn't stop talking about how much of a pitchers park CitiField will be. We have been talking about this on faketeams for a few months now, but no one knew for sure how the park will play. Well, last night we saw that it will, in fact, be a huge pitchers park. David Wright hit a bomb to CF late in the game that I just assumed would tie the game, but Jody Gerut tracked it down on the warning track. Marc Normandin from Baseball Prospectus had this to say about the ballpark: ] Citi Field's dimensions are a dramatic shift from those of the Mets' former home, Shea Stadium. While there are a few spots in the park that are going to be better for hitters than in their former confines, most of the fences have been moved back in a way that is going to significantly decrease home runs for the Mets and their opponents. He describes the changes as dramatic. I wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it for myself. Here's more based on analysis from Greg Rybarczyk over at HitTracker: ] While the change in fence distance on its own is enough to suppress home runs, the fact the fences are so drastically different in size also will alter offense. Greg Rybarczyk of Hit Tracker says one foot of height added to a fence is equivalent to 0.84 feet of distance. That means that a spot in right center at Citi Field that is 25 feet deeper than it was at Shea (383 feet), with an 18-foot-high fence thrown in, actually is equivalent to moving the wall back 33 feet from where it stood in Shea. It isn't just right field that sees changes this drastic, either, as heading from center to left field gives you fences that are roughly 8-10 feet deeper than at Shea with fences twice as high, meaning they are more like 15-17 feet farther from home, due to the change in height. And [BP's] Normandin closes with this about the Mets power hitters: ] For someone like Carlos Delgado, who averaged over 411 feet on his homers last year, this isn't going to be an issue, though his bombs won't look like they are going as far any more. For David Wright, though, who hits many of his homers between the 350- and 400-foot range to left, we may see a spike in doubles production with fewer homers to that side, and maybe just a handful of shots to right. Carlos Beltran is another player who may suffer, as he averaged just under 400 feet on his homers last year, a number that isn't high enough to clear most of right center even without taking the higher fences into account. All of this open space should boost other extra-base hits, but it should be a lackluster year for home runs for the Mets. We did see three HRs in the game, but 2 of the 3 went over the shorter RF wall, while Wright's went over the 374 sign in LF. Orel Hershiser stated late in the game that he had not seen, during batting practice and in the game, any ball clear the wall between left-center field and right-center field. I am curious how long before we hear talk of moving the fences in at CitiField. http://www.faketeams.com/2009/4/15/8380 ... -be-scarce

DocTee Apr 19 2009 06:27 PM

20 homers in four games at YS3. That's a record for a new stadium.

metsguyinmichigan Apr 19 2009 07:05 PM

Mike Vaccaro thinks the Mets should retire more numbers and play video loops. IT is good that the Mets saw fit to honor Jackie Robinson. It is honorable. It is right that in their new ballpark, the Mets decided to create a permanent reminder to the world that on the subject of racial tolerance, and advancement, the city of New York -- and, specifically, one of its National League franchises -- ran ahead of the curve. I suspect most Mets fans have little problem with that, either. Or even the fact that the most prominent and ballyhooed portion of Citi Field, the Jackie Robinson Rotunda, is named after someone who not only never played for the Mets, and never worked in any capacity for the Mets, but in fact played his last game six full years before the Mets even were born. What has to burn Mets fans, though, and should, is the fact that the Mets, as has been their custom forever, made no effort to make sure there was any kind of nod to their own history anywhere notable at their new ballpark. There is talk of a Mets Hall of Fame someday, but there has been similar talk forever. You only have one opportunity to open a new ballpark. And the Mets whiffed. That isn't unusual, because this is a franchise that has gone to great lengths over the years to, for some mysterious, inexplicable reason, to distance itself from its own history. It is madness, and remains madness, that only one player -- Tom Seaver -- has his number retired, though it seems inevitable that Mike Piazza's No. 31 will join Seaver's 41 soon enough. It is absurd that not one member of the 1986 Mets -- winners of 108 regular-season games and a World Series -- has their number retired. Not the No. 17 of Keith Hernandez, the catalyst of the renaissance that culminated with '86. Not Gary Carter, the only member of that team in the Hall of Fame. Not No. 5, worn by Davey Johnson, the best manager in the team's history (though it would seem that ship has sailed, because David Wright has gained proprietorship over the number now). But it is the worst kind of slap at Mets fans that there isn't a room, or a hallway, or a wing, dedicated -- on the day the place opened -- to the team's history. It is inexcusable. And Mets fans have every right to be as angry about that as they do about obstructed seats, about the fact that the stadium's security guards seem to be dressed in Phillies jackets, about the fact that other than orange foul poles there's no nod at all to the Mets' team colors -- the same team colors the Mets have no problem at all seeing their fans shell out souvenir money for. This has nothing to do with the Yankees, by the way. Look, nobody with a rational molecule in their brain would ever think to compare themselves with the Yankees unless you happen to play basketball in Boston or ice hockey in Montreal. The Yankees have more history than any of them; more history than any 15 teams in baseball. And the Yankees are more than happy to celebrate that history, to revel in it, to bathe in it. The Yankees would have opened a New Yankee Stadium without a home plate before they would have opened it without Monument Park. They have a peerless history. They should commemorate it at every turn. But here's something the men who run the Mets never want to acknowledge, for whatever reason: the Mets have a pretty significant history, too, and that's true even without trying to attach themselves to their spiritual antecedents, the Dodgers and the Giants. The Mets have won two world championships; of all the teams born since baseball first expanded in 1961, 14 in all, just the Marlins and Blue Jays have won that many. Of the other 16, the Mets have as many as the Phillies, Cubs, Indians and Twins/Senators, all of whom had a 60-year head start on them. What of the memories? Think of all the crazy games this team has played. There wasn't a place to put a big screen and a constant loop of highlights from the Imperfect Game, the Black Cat Game, the Ball Off The Top of the Fence Game, the Grand Single Game, the Buckner Game a you get the idea. And think about this: name me another franchise, in baseball or any other sport, in which two of its teams are instant metaphors, for entirely different reasons? If you coach a Little League team, or play in a YMCA hoops league, and your team isn't very good, what do you invariably say? "We're the '62 Mets." Conversely, if you're team comes out of nowhere to turn things around, what do you say about yourselves? "We're like the '69 Mets." God, in the form of George Burns, said it Himself: "The last miracle I performed was the 1969 Mets." You don't think that matters? You're either wrong or you're one of the people who designed this ballpark. And maybe both. I was talking with my friend Peter Schwartz, one of the gifted radio voices, who told me a story the other day about how he and his wife decided to encourage their 20-month-old son's rooting interest. He's a Yankees/Islanders fan. She's a Mets/Rangers fan. They compromised: he would root for the Mets and the Islanders. There are certain things, it's important to think them through. It would have been nice if the Mets had.

Frayed Knot Apr 19 2009 07:08 PM

]I am curious how long before we hear talk of moving the fences in at CitiField. Those things can NOT be done in-season so any talk that results of this will be just that, talk. Between seasons a club can petition the league for permission to make changes (something like up to 10%). They could always put a fence in front of the wall in some spots which would make it both a shorter distance and shorter fences. Also, beware of pronouncements about how a park is going to play 1 week into a season. CF will most likely be pitcher-friendly but perhaps not absurdly so. Braun's memory of the wind blowing out could happen here too once the weather warms up. April winds are frequently north-eastery (aka: IN). July/August winds tend to be from the south-west. And the HRs at YSIII could simply be the result of short-term hot hitting and lousy pitching. YSII usually played as a more-or-less neutral park (although with a pronounced L/R split) and the new joint is the exact dimensions as the old.

Edgy DC Apr 19 2009 07:14 PM

I hope they don't touch the fences and they don't retire any numbers.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 19 2009 07:20 PM

I would like to see a Met player wearing #8. Any Met. Enough already. I could think of at least half a dozen Mets who are more deserving than Carter of having their unis unoffically mothballed. (And for now, I'm not campaigning for the Mets to retire the unis of any of these unnamed Mets).

Frayed Knot Apr 19 2009 07:32 PM

Vaccaro is wrong about the retired numbers, particularly if his reasoning is based on wanting more simply because there's very few now. But he's right about mgmt's reluctance to celebrate their own history. Even if they do put in a NYM HoF and other more visible displays in the near future it'll seem like an afterthought and/or a reaction to public pressure rather than an actual want to have something. And the most logical time to put something like that in is while you are building the bleeding park!! On the other hand, Neil de Mausse [url=http://baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1242:1bw2aku4]over at Baseball Prospectus[/url:1bw2aku4] gives very favorable impressions of the place. Much better than the ones he gave to the place in the Bronx despite being (I believe) a long-time MFY fan.

Edgy DC Apr 19 2009 07:38 PM

="batmagadanleadoff":36x4gftw]I would like to see a Met player wearing #8.[/quote:36x4gftw] While I don't care if it gets assigned --- so long as it's not explicitly retired --- I'm certain I could go far further than a half dozen. I'd as soon retire Benitez's 49. Swan Swan H Apr 19 2009 07:44 PM The lack of the HOF is really the only gripe I have with the new place. There does seem to be enough chatter about it that it will happen. Rather than slap something together I'd like to see them really put some time and thought into it, and have a grand opening at the beginning of the '10 season. Induct Piazza, Doc and Straw (and maybe Franco), do the ceremony at the home opener, and make it something people will really want to go and see. Edgy DC Apr 19 2009 07:50 PM I'd like to see them get some deep-thinking professional minded fans* to help draw up the creative plans. If a permanent Mets Hall of Fame rushed to production by suits as an appeasemet to fans done by a reactive-mindset management, I'd rather it be left undone for now. *Hint: Prince > Cerrone metsguyinmichigan Apr 19 2009 09:28 PM ="Edgy DC"]I'd like to see them get some deep-thinking professional minded fans* to help draw up the creative plans. If a permanent Mets Hall of Fame rushed to production by suits as an appeasemet to fans done by a reactive-mindset management, I'd rather it be left undone for now. *Hint: Prince > Cerrone Of course! Now, I gotta say, I don't understand the contempt for Gary Carter in these parts. I realize he's been acting like a bit of a douche in recent years. But Armando Benitiz? Edgy DC Apr 19 2009 09:31 PM I never understood the contempt for Armando Benitez in parts far and wide, but not wanting Carter's legacy over-stated isn't exactly contempt for him. metsmarathon Apr 20 2009 07:06 AM during batting practice on saturday, ramon castro hit a homer into the apple enclosure. i couldn't tell if it glanced off the apple or not, but it definitely cleared half-an-apple's-width left of straight away center. metsmarathon Apr 20 2009 07:10 AM also, i wish the mets were savvy enough to say something like "we've planned all along to include a mets hall of fame, but wanted first to see how the flow of traffic would circulate around the stadium. naturally, we want the hall of fame to get maximum exposure, but at the same time, we don't want it to contribute to what might already be a natural choke point. much like you never really know how the winds will behave in a new park (ahem - ys3), you never really know how the fans will circulate until you open the doors and get a season's worth of baseball under your belt." John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 20 2009 07:12 AM It's really inexcuseable not to have something -- and something nice and substantial. The Wilpons just don't get it and don't care to. Edgy DC Apr 20 2009 07:13 AM The thing is, that may more or less be true. But with Jeff Wilpon speaking off book, he ends up giving a lesser impression. metsmarathon Apr 20 2009 07:33 AM yeah... in my head, i've been giving them a mental pass on the memorabilia thing. but the way they've handled the issue of the mets hof has me tending more towards jcl's thinking... i still don't think the ballpark needs to be swathed in blue and orange paint everywhere though, and am perfectly fine with the color palate. G-Fafif Apr 20 2009 07:42 AM The green seats are fine. The red staff uniforms don't bother me. Shea wasn't all blue and orange on the inside in its early days either. Camden Yards bowed with green seats and red brick and it didn't detract from the black and orange of the Orioles (admittedly, I don't care about the Orioles, but it seemed all right to me). And somewhere deep in the catacombs of the initial propaganda put out on Citi Field's behalf was a vague promise of a Mets Hall of Fame/museum. It shouldn't have been so vague then, it shouldn't be as vague as it is now. But there's only so much hook I'm willing to let them off of. Because it is atrocious that there is not one picture of a Met displayed inside Citi Field. I toured the field level with a friend not of the Met ilk Saturday before the game, someone not immersed in this stuff, and he pointed out about sixty different places where simple photos and banners could be hung without my flogging the issue. There are blank spaces on walls above the traffic flow and within the stairwells that would be perfect to remind you of why you're here. Many of those pieces were sold to MeiGray, but surely they're replaceable. Surely it's not prohibitive to replicate those images or to display blow-ups of the yearbook covers (more auction items). It's simple make a house a home stuff. It makes you feel good wandering around. It gets you thinking and talking Mets and I'd bet it would get you buying Mets in the team store. I don't think it was a venal decision on the part of management to forget this stuff. I think they just kind of forgot it, as in it didn't seem important enough to remember. Mets management is striving so hard to be competent at customer service that they haven't found the energy to worry about what Mets fans might like. DocTee Apr 20 2009 07:43 AM not for nothin' but SJR has been making this same point for years. Frayed Knot Apr 20 2009 07:49 AM ="DocTee":ftu3pu2u]not for nothin' but SJR has been making this same point for years.[/quote:ftu3pu2u] And he was right in that the HoF they did have (such as it was) was small and tucked away in a rarely accessible location. But at least that could be explained by there being no place for it in a fading building that wasn't built with anything like it in mind. Now, in a building in where they had both ample input into the design and ample time to think about it, they simply deemed it a topic not worthy of their time & forethought. metsguyinmichigan Apr 20 2009 07:54 AM I'll give them a pass for the first season, when you are building the place and want to get it up and running. I think you can add those things, especially the banners that Greg mentioned. They'd look great! I know the Reds waited several years to have their Hall of Fame building ready to go. The Mets did produce that massive mural on the outside that shows people from Stengel to Santana. G-Fafif Apr 20 2009 08:04 AM The outside mural more or less replicates the montage that was present on the press level facade from 2003 through 2008. It's a great accent, as are the banners outside the LF and RF entrances. And if they're working from the outside in, then all I can say is they should have been a little quicker on the draw to cover the inside. It is so bereft of Met imagery inside that it doesn't look like they gave it a second thought. Even without the HOF the first year of Great American, you knew you were in the home of the Reds. You had the Big Klu statue outside; you had these works in tile devoted to the Red Stockings of 1869 and the Big Red Machine of 1976. Nationals Park lined the concourses with Washington baseball history when it opened. Seems like this should be as much a priority as making sure the Ebbets Club is up and running. There is a temptation to give an IT'S GREAT or IT SUCKS to Citi Field and dismiss evidence that would detract from either stance. That would be a mistake. Parts of it vary from wonderful to promising. Some of it needs improvement. I'd consider the Metsiness angle in the latter realm. metirish Apr 20 2009 08:12 AM I don't want to give them a pass on this , I'm no expert on Mets history but I could right now tab several people here on this board that would do our history justice. I'm not saying the Mets should poll Mets fans and get a consensus what should be done because that would turn into a mess , but they could get together five people who know their stuff and do the proper thing. batmagadanleadoff Apr 20 2009 08:55 AM ="G-Fafif":2gp7cm6v] Surely it's not prohibitive to replicate those images or to display blow-ups of the yearbook covers (more auction items)..[/quote:2gp7cm6v] I'd be surprised if the Mets even retained any quality memorabilia items for a HOF. Perhaps, the best the team could come up with, besides the obvious reproduction of photos from their archives and the vaults of Corbis and SI would be the bat Sheffield used to hit his 500th HR. G-Fafif Apr 20 2009 09:00 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":3icjvx49] ="G-Fafif":3icjvx49] Surely it's not prohibitive to replicate those images or to display blow-ups of the yearbook covers (more auction items)..[/quote:3icjvx49] I'd be surprised if the Mets even retained any quality memorabilia items for a HOF. Perhaps, the best the team could come up with, besides the obvious reproduction of photos from their archives and the vaults of Corbis and SI would be the bat Sheffield used to hit his 500th HR.[/quote:3icjvx49] It wouldn't be a bad jumping-off point. metsguyinmichigan Apr 20 2009 09:08 AM Well, they did save the Apple and the skyline from Shea. But you're right. They should try to round up things. Plus, the Hall of Fame loans items to clubs for displays. batmagadanleadoff Apr 20 2009 09:56 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":27gtii65]Well, they did save the Apple and the skyline from Shea. But you're right. They should try to round up things.[/quote:27gtii65] They already are. Wilpon's vision for a Mets HOF will include the old Shea Stadium box seat that Jackie Robinson sat in after he threw the ceremonial first pitch in an early '70's game, the jersey Koufax wore on the day he no-hit the Mets (Wilpon would've preferred Sandy's jersey from his '65 loss to the Mets and a young Tug McGraw but the HOF pitcher burned that one) and the pen David Cone used to pen his pre-internet blog while the Mets were losing to the Dodgers in the '88 playoffs. Expect a life sized blow up of Snider and Hodges playing pepper, but your guess is as good as mine as to what uniforms the two will be depicted in. Look for a special section honoring Mike Piazza and Darryl Strawberry as the best Mets hitters ever. Ever to also play for the Dodgers.