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="DocTee"]I've always like the Pirates, back to the Stargell days.
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Em... there was a period in there, pre-Wild-card-era, where I don't remember liking 'em so much. (And where, in one NLCS, I found myself clapping and laughing about the Braves pulling off a comeback, thanks to one skinny All-Star leftfielder's alligator-armed throw to the plate.)
That said, good on you, Mateys.
(Also, have you seen their promotional schedule? Their events/giveaways perenially kick ass, and tend toward the carefully historical-- Homestead Grays cap nights, non-superstar throwback jersey giveaways, and alumni autographs galore)
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Centerfield
Apr 23 2009 10:00 AM
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I'm with Leiter. I hate Pittsburgh.
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themetfairy
Apr 23 2009 10:23 AM
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PNC is a gorgeous ballpark - my favorite one. You'd think that a city with a long baseball history would have fans who would show up and fill the place out a bit.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Apr 23 2009 10:27 AM
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Yes, a return of good baseball to Pittsburgh would be a boon to the US of A. So would a new album from Donnie Iris.
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Edgy DC
Apr 23 2009 10:28 AM
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The fans have been understandably turned off by a system built to place them at a competitive disadvantage and two or three straight regimes desperately unable to find away to manage around the handicaps.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Apr 23 2009 10:42 AM
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="Edgy DC":docnbwl2]The fans have been understandably turned off by a system built to place them at a competitive disadvantage and two or three straight regimes desperately unable to find away to manage around the handicaps.[/quote:docnbwl2]
It's a management problem-- I call bullshit (mostly) on the "competitive disadvantage" part. The Pirates are one of a handful of Marlin-y teams (give the Royals credit for spending, if not spending well) consistently reaping huge luxury-tax windfalls... and pocketing said windfalls, rather than putting even a portion of the money into funding offseason purchasing that's something more than bottom-shelf/fill-the-roster vets.
The scouting/player development does seem to have improved over the last 3-4 years, though-- they're not TB, but with guys like McCutchens lying in wait, they're well positioned to challenge sometime in the next 3-4 years (especially considering their division).
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Edgy DC
Apr 23 2009 11:15 AM
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Contrast the windfall the Pirates get from luxury tax to the windfall the Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Sox, Dodgers etc get from everything, and it's a reality, and not bullshit.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Apr 23 2009 11:41 AM
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="Edgy DC":3skz631j]Contrast the windfall the Pirates get from luxury tax to the windfall the Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Sox, Dodgers etc get from everything, and it's a reality, and not bullshit.[/quote:3skz631j]
The windfall the Pirates receive comes from being bad, and has ranged between 25 and 30 million dollars after each of the past four seasons. Add that to the 35-50 million gleaned from national media and other contracts, and you've got a pretty good war chest (even if somewhat paltry when compared to the top 5), even before you count team-exclusive revenues.
I'd feel a lot better about the whole deal if everyone were starting on the theoretical even playing field... but it'll never happen, because MLB teams don't represent 32 cities with the same population size, media markets, revenue opportunities, history of sports-affiliation and operating costs. (I'd also feel a lot better if my 48K salary allowed me to buy a home in NYC, as it would in many nice Pittsburgh neighborhoods. Alas.)
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Edgy DC
Apr 23 2009 11:46 AM
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| ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]The windfall the Pirates receive comes from being bad, and has ranged between 25 and 30 million dollars after each of the past four seasons. |
I don't think the Pirates are paid for being bad.
| ]Add that to the 35-50 million gleaned from national media and other contracts, and you've got a pretty good war chest (even if somewhat paltry when compared to the top 5), even before you count team-exclusive revenues. |
That's a competitive imbalance.
| ]I'd feel a lot better about the whole deal if everyone were starting on the theoretical even playing field... but it'll never happen, because MLB teams don't represent 32 cities with the same population size, media markets, revenue opportunities, history of sports-affiliation and operating costs. |
There may be ways to fix the imbalance and there may not be. But my point was that an imbalance exists.
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G-Fafif
Apr 23 2009 01:02 PM
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="John Cougar Lunchbucket":14ynr1l1]Yes, a return of good baseball to Pittsburgh would be a boon to the US of A. So would a new album from Donnie Iris.[/quote:14ynr1l1]
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Apr 23 2009 01:28 PM
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| ="Edgy DC"]I don't think the Pirates are paid for being bad. |
For being one of the league's lowest-revenue teams = "bad" at generating revenue (an indirect result of the on-field brand of badness)
| ="Edgy DC"]There may be ways to fix the imbalance and there may not be. But my point was that an imbalance exists. |
The point with which I took issue was that you said that the system was built to do that. That problem ain't the revenue-sharing deal-- that's capitalism. The next thing you'll tell me is that increasingly-extreme resource gaps between haves and have-nots is BAD for a social or economic collective.
But we've gotten away from the real point here... which is that I would really like to have a free Homestead Grays cap with my paid admission of 5 dollars.
http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/sched ... p?c_id=pit
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Edgy DC
Apr 23 2009 01:34 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 23 2009 01:38 PM
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| ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]The point with which I took issue was that you said that the system was built to do that. That problem ain't the revenue-sharing deal-- that's capitalism. |
You brought up the revenue sharing deal. I didn't.
No that isn't capitalism. Capitalism would allow teams to move wherever they want and compete directly for the markets they want. The protection that the teams have for their marketplaces is anti-competitive to the core.
That's the next thing I'm telling you.
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Nymr83
Apr 23 2009 01:34 PM
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they have alot of good giveaways.
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Nymr83
Apr 23 2009 01:36 PM
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="Edgy DC":22dwilgs]No that isn't capitalism. Capitalism would allow teams to move wherever they want and compete directly for the markets they want. The protection that the teams have for their marketplaces is anti-competitive to the core.
[/quote:22dwilgs]
that is certainly true, which is not to say its good or bad "for the game", but it should justify the revenue sharing to anyone not named Steinbrenner.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Apr 23 2009 01:46 PM
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="Edgy DC":2chpde8x]
No that isn't capitalism. Capitalism would allow teams to move wherever they want and compete directly for the markets they want. The protection that the teams have for their marketplaces is anti-competitive to the core.[/quote:2chpde8x]
The protected-marketplaces bit of the system is to what you referred at first. Gotcha... and agreed.
Now tell me you wouldn't want a gratis 1979 Pirates pillbox hat on the same night as the Dollar Dog Special.
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Edgy DC
Apr 23 2009 01:48 PM
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I think we should have a forum meetup at PNC that night.
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Nymr83
Apr 23 2009 01:50 PM
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is it a weekend? that hat is pretty cool and its $1 hotdog night to boot (do you think they have kosher food in pittsburgh?)
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Apr 23 2009 03:11 PM
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It appears to be Friday, August 21st. (Although Saturday night of "1979 Celebration Weekend" includes a postgame KC and the Sunshine Band show-- I'm guessing Capt. FAFIF would approve, although he'd probably prefer the Knack or something-- and something called "Scratch N' Win Saturday." So, you know. There's that.)
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