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Letting it get deep

Frayed Knot May 06 2009 07:29 AM

No, nothing like that -- get your freakin' minds out of the gutter. Just picking up on a discussion from Monday's IGT New York Post: The personal highlight reel by Beltran was in keeping with his season, which has been off the charts. Not only does he lead the NL with a .400 average, but Beltran extended his hitting streak to 15 games. "My whole career I've been a pull hitter, and now letting the ball get deep has helped me to use the whole field," Beltran said. "Once you do that, you've got a lot of opportunities to help the team." Soupcan: What does Beltran mean here? Letting the ball go deeper in terms of the front and back of home plate/strike zone? So a pull hitter hits the ball towards the front of the plate/strike zone and if one is going to go opposite field then its not so much the swing but where the ball is hit within the zone? Interesting stuff. Frayed Knot: Yes - to all of the above. That's why inside fastballs are, in effect, faster than fastballs towards the outside corner. Hitters need to meet the inside pitch out in front of the plate or else they're getting jammed in on the hands. Outside pitches of the same speed aren't usually met until the ball has reached over the plate, maybe as much as a foot or so "later". Centerfield: When I was playing I always had the problem of letting the ball get too deep. Like in the catcher's glove deep. So Keith was clearly reading the 'Pool' in prep for Tuesday's game as he went to the tele-strator on some overhead shots outlining this exact subject. - First they had a shot of Prado's 7th inning double in to the LF corner, the overhead shot showing him meeting the pitch at least a foot or more out in front of the plate in order to pull the inside pitch down the line. - Then a same camera shot of an earlier Wright swing on a pitch on the outside corner. In this one he didn't meet the ball until it had reached over the plate itself which means the bat was still at an "open" angle and could only go towards RF (wound up being a foul ball I believe).

soupcan May 06 2009 07:37 AM

Right - I saw that and thought about yesterday's discussion. I also recall that they showed Escobar (I think it was Escobar, maybe it was the Prado at-bat you were referring) standing very forward in the box and indicating that his toe was actually on the frontmost line of the box. This perplexes me because I always thought that the conventional thinking was to be as far back in the box as one could in order to have that fraction of a second more to see and hit the pitch. This is also evidenced by every single player that walks into the box and promptly scratches out the back line with their foot. I understand moving up in the box to try to pull pitches but I would think that would put a hitter at more of a disadvantage generally.

holychicken May 06 2009 07:49 AM

Soup, I think the idea is that standing at the front of the box gives breaking pitches less time to break, making them easier to hit. So you stand forward in the box for breaking ball pitchers and back in the box for fastball pitchers. I don't think this is really done all that much any more, but I get the impression that it used to be pretty common.

Frayed Knot May 06 2009 07:53 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 06 2009 07:55 AM

Generally moving back in the box would give you that extra split-second on a good fastball while standing up forward helps one get to a breaking pitch before it continues to run away off the outside corner. And while most batting stances are just individual preferences, a hitter could move around in the box within an AB anticipating a particular pitch - although that could then signal to the catcher what pitch the batter is now vulnerable to, something that's all part of the ongoing cat-and-mouse game. oe: what Chicken said

soupcan May 06 2009 07:54 AM

It just amazes me that all of these adjustments are so tiny and have to do with getting the most miniscule edge one way or the other. I mean how much more or less break is a pitch going to have going 80+ mph over the course of what 3"-6"? And being able to time a swing so precisely so that you will either pull a pitch or go 'oppo' (as Keith said at some point last week) just astounds me. It speaks to how talented these guys are.

Rockin' Doc May 06 2009 08:04 AM

A few hitters will move forward (toward the pitcher) in the batters box when facing a breaking ball pitcher that doesn't have an overpowering fastball. The idea is to try to get to the breaking pitch before it has a chance to break much. The thinking is that the hitter will still be able to get around on a mid 80's fastball without much trouble. Pitchers like Tim Wakefield, Jamie Moyer, and probably Livan Hernandez may attract that approach by those hitters that subscribe to the theory. I think the majority of hitters stay in the same spot in the batters box, generally as far back as possible, no matter who is pitching. On edit: Better late to the game than to never arrive, I guess. I just type to slow and I had to take a phone call in the middle of composing the post. At least we're all in agreement.

Benjamin Grimm May 06 2009 08:52 AM

And my brother-in-law insists that it's harder to hit a golf ball than a baseball.

Nymr83 May 06 2009 08:54 AM

moving forward in the box has other advantages as well, you are more likely to hit a fair ball the farther foward you stand because the foul lines dont move with you.

Rockin' Doc May 06 2009 09:14 AM

Hitting a golf ball is relatively easy. Hitting a golf ball where you want it to go is quite difficult. Still, I believe that hitting a baseball against a reasonably skilled pitcher is the single most demanding activity in sport. The remainder of baseball however, (running, throwing, and catching the ball) isn't nearly as difficult and much of it comes rather naturally to many people.

Fman99 May 06 2009 09:40 AM

I find it best to get balls deep whenever possible. Oh, wait, what?

Fman99 May 06 2009 11:17 AM Going both ways

OK, now it's my turn to use suggestive post headlines for a baseball story! [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=4145564:31t7sf79]Interesting read from ESPN[/url:31t7sf79] on a kid in the MFYs farm system, pitching in A ball as both a lefty and a righty.

Methead May 06 2009 11:54 AM Re: Going both ways

="Fman99":1nck7ucl] [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=4145564:1nck7ucl]Interesting read from ESPN[/url:1nck7ucl] on a kid in the MFYs farm system, pitching in A ball as both a lefty and a righty.[/quote:1nck7ucl] Remember this video from last year? Switch pitcher faces switch hitter, hijinks ensue. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PiqLaWFufms&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PiqLaWFufms&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Frayed Knot May 06 2009 12:01 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":3orw5t70]And my brother-in-law insists that it's harder to hit a golf ball than a baseball.[/quote:3orw5t70] He is aware that the golf ball is stationary while the baseball is decidedly not, right? Benjamin Grimm May 06 2009 12:08 PM I pointed that out. He says that he hits the ball better in a batting cage than he does on a golf course. I didn't care to prolong the argument. Frayed Knot May 06 2009 05:49 PM Keith's reading the 'Pool' again - this time he's talking about changing stances within the batters box. Coincidence? ... I don't think so!! Kong76 May 06 2009 07:12 PM Keith doesn't strike me as one to be huddled over a laptop reading baseball message boards while working and certainly not while outside the booth. He could be reading over someone's shoulder, but that's purely conjecture on my part. Frayed Knot May 06 2009 07:38 PM I don't actually think he's reading here either - but hearing him take up seperate CPF discussions on two consecutive nights is pretty funny. Frayed Knot May 07 2009 07:46 AM Hey Keith (and we know you're reading) your CPF choice discussion topics for tonight are: 1) playing the line vs not in late-inning, close-game situations or 2) did Pres Lincoln choose to start an unnecessary war rather than opting for negotiations as a reaction to southern secession due to pressure from northern industrialists and their powerful representatives in Congress? soupcan May 07 2009 08:03 AM You just reminded me... I was paying attention to where guys were standing in the box last night and snapped this shot of Utley.. At what point does an umpire say 'Dude, get back in the box..!" His back foot is clearly out of the box - what's up with that? Is he automatically out if he hits a fair ball? What's the rule? Frayed Knot May 07 2009 08:08 AM Rule says you need to be in the box and can be called out if not. Now if the ump doesn't say anything (or catcher doesn't ask) prior to the pitch I'm sure he's not going to flag him after he hits on into the gap. But I know Aaron lost one HR when called out for stepping out of the box as he swung and I'm sure there have been others.