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Grading Jerry

Edgy DC May 13 2009 08:32 PM Edited 4 time(s), most recently on May 13 2009 09:04 PM

5/13: Batting Sheffield fourth: I'm OK with that. Just because the numbers aren't there doesn't mean he hasn't been hitting the ball hard. B Ryan Church: Starting him today against a lefthander after starting Tatis and Cora yesterday against a righthander is a complete headscratcher. Batting him eighth is a great way to underscore that he's just getting a day-game-after-a-night-game bone thrown his way. What has he done to get so marginalized? Boo. D. Pulling Niese: Good move in that he didn't let trying to get Niese the win and leave him in long enough to get the loss. It make me wonder, however, why he let other pitchers blow it earlier in the year when the wheels broke free in the fifth. I've got to guess that he it was more important to him to give Pelfrey and Maine empty confidence builders because they're a bigger part of this year's plans. Anyhow, right move, even if it did leave us scratching for pitching at the end. B+. Pinch-hitting for Castro: Wrong at several levels. (1) the guy is hitting, (2) in a walkoff situation, stick with a power guy, (3) it took two guys (your last two) to replace one guy, (4) it almost guaranteed that you would be using Santos to hit for the pitcher, no matter what the situation, (5) when he did use Santos, that moved the pitcher's slot in the lineup forward two slots with no pinch-hitters left. (6) It further serves to undermine the efforts of Castro for no apparent strategic advantage with a game on the line. F+. Reyes not Running: This isn't the first time this season, and if Jerry had come down on him earlier, hopefully benching him for a game, this perhaps wouldn't have happened today. Willie benched him once for not hustling, though it only seemed an expression of his need to show who's boss in the face of his own insecurity, and looked even more ineffectual when he didn't bench Reyes after later infractions. Nip this shit in the bud and nip it however many times you need to. For not addressing this earlier, D+. Game score C-.

Rockin' Doc May 13 2009 09:00 PM

I really can't fathom Manuel's apparent respect for Ryan Church's game. Church is the best defensive right fielder on the roster, he hustles, and even with his recent struggles at the plate he is still out hitting Sheffield, both for the season and the past week. Castro is another player that Manuel seems to have a low regard for their play. His numbers are virtually identical as those of Santos for the season, yet Manuel seems to have nothing but praise for Santos and contempt (or at least a general mistrust) for Castro. If anyone could use a day or two off, it would appear to be Reyes. His head just does not seem to be on the game. Either that, or his instincts for the game are not nearly as good as I had previously believed. Too often, there seems no rhyme or reason for many of the moves Jerry makes.

Edgy DC May 13 2009 09:11 PM

="Rockin' Doc"]Church is the best defensive right fielder on the roster, he hustles, and even with his recent struggles at the plate he is still out hitting Sheffield, both for the season and the past week. It's a debateable point, but Marty Noble claims that Church is the best defensive rightfielder they've ever had. Others that came to mind when I read that: Joel Youngblood, Ellis Valentine, Claudell Washington, Carl Everett, Richard Hidalgo, and Endy Chavez. Not a lot of long tenures in right there, however.

Mendoza Line May 14 2009 05:20 AM

I liked the decision to bunt in the 9th, but not in the 12th. Having a weak hitter move Church from first to second with the top of the order coming up made a lot of sense. Having a good OBP guy like Castillo move Reyes from second to third did not.

Edgy DC May 14 2009 05:47 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on May 14 2009 08:53 AM

I'm the opposite. The bunt in the ninth was a waste rof a bench player, and it didn't put the lead runner in a position to score on an out, unlike the bunt in the 12th. Castillo being a good OBP man doesn't really play into the picture much, because a walk wouldn't advance the runner, and would in fact create forces at second and third. The main failure in the 12th was Beltran, looking to hit a fly ball, was chasing pitches high.

metirish May 14 2009 06:39 AM

I watched the replay last night , at least the later innings. Bunting with Castillo there was like playing for the tie at home , with no outs and Reyes on second you sacrifice him to third?....I didn't like that at all.

smg58 May 14 2009 06:43 AM

I'd have used a pitcher to bunt in the ninth. I'd much rather have three chances to bring Reyes home from second than two chances to bring him home from third. If Castillo walks, the winning run is on base with nobody out. Why wouldn't that play into the picture?

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 14 2009 06:53 AM

I don't mind giving up an out to get Reyes to 3rd there.

metirish May 14 2009 07:14 AM

With a speedy Reyes on second and Castillo hitting very well I thought it was a bad move , either way we got to get him home and we didn't.

Fman99 May 14 2009 07:30 AM

="metirish":36xsojw7]With a speedy Reyes on second and Castillo hitting very well I thought it was a bad move , either way we got to get him home and we didn't.[/quote:36xsojw7] I don't like the bunt in the 12th. Give your team one more chance to plate the run with an actual hit. Nymr83 May 14 2009 07:37 AM ]and Endy Chavez well he played LF as often as he did RF, maybe Noble counts him there? metsmarathon May 14 2009 07:58 AM mike cameron was a pretty good defensive rf Benjamin Grimm May 14 2009 08:04 AM So was Darryl Strawberry. If only he'd keep his head in the game. Edgy DC May 14 2009 09:06 AM ="metirish":158ikj2b]Bunting with Castillo there was like playing for the tie at home , with no outs and Reyes on second you sacrifice him to third?....I didn't like that at all.[/quote:158ikj2b] Well, the book says you play for the tie at home. ="smg58":158ikj2b]I'd much rather have three chances to bring Reyes home from second than two chances to bring him home from third. [/quote:158ikj2b] ="Fman":158ikj2b]Give your team one more chance to plate the run with an actual hit.[/quote:158ikj2b] Yeah, but one of those chances was to bring him home with an out, which are a lot more common than hits. ="smg58":158ikj2b]If Castillo walks, the winning run is on base with nobody out. Why wouldn't that play into the picture?[/quote:158ikj2b] You're right and it does, but it also doesn't advance the runner, and sets up the force, and I'm (as seen above) thinking in terms of the tie. ="Nymr":158ikj2b]well he played LF as often as he did RF, maybe Noble counts him there?[/quote:158ikj2b] I'm guessing Endy didn't see enough time there to make an impression on the Noble one, or to be counted as such. ="Nymr":158ikj2b]mike cameron was a pretty good defensive rf[/quote:158ikj2b] And I suppose Noble would say he didn't play there long enough (before breaking his head) to add polish to his game in right. As Noble is on record declairing Elliot Maddox as (or near) the best defensive centerfielder (pre-Beltran?) the Mets have ever had, I think his thoughts --- while valid and important to consider --- are pretty peculiar in this area, and I'd like to talk further with him. Suffice to say, that if Marty thinks you're the best defensive rightfielder the Mets have ever had, you're probably very good. Ceetar May 14 2009 09:39 AM ="Fman99":54u0pcb2] ="metirish":54u0pcb2]With a speedy Reyes on second and Castillo hitting very well I thought it was a bad move , either way we got to get him home and we didn't.[/quote:54u0pcb2] I don't like the bunt in the 12th. Give your team one more chance to plate the run with an actual hit.[/quote:54u0pcb2] I agree, when you've only got three outs to spare, don't give them away for anything. Even if the pitchers spot was up, I'd probably have Santana swing away than bunt. To me, Manuel shows no confidence in his team to get a hit, or have big innings, by giving these outs away. But tell me this, why'd he pinch hit Castillo needing a sac fly on Tuesday, but not let him try to advance the running himself via grounder to the right side, sac fly, etc on Wednesday. Reyes was on second, I'd rather three chances to get a hit to likely tie it, than one shot to hit a fly ball. I have the same problem with intentionally walking guys to face the pitcher. You can make a case for it with guys like Niese, but like when Santana IBB'd Alfredo Amezega (no career AB against Santana) twice in the same game, that's ridiculous. I only like walks if it's setting up a double play with 1 out an a runner on third. I really don't like Manuel, He's one of the worst managers I've ever watched. I thought they should've ditched him at the same time they ditched Willie. (Although a hitting/pitching coaching change would've probably been good enough, and we probably could use that now. Warthen looks outclassed too) Elster88 May 15 2009 11:00 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 15 2009 11:05 PM 1st and 2nd, no out in the top of the 9th, Jerry calls for the bunt with a bad bunter (Church) up. Sheffield would've been out by 15 feet if not for the pitcher throwing it into left field. Oh yeah, and Church had two hits coming into that at-bat, and Santos hitting behind him was 0-3 with 3 strikeouts and a sacrifice fly. The fact that Santos had a sac fly already this game means nothing to me since he struck out three times. Edit: Grade N/A, since Manuel was not managing at the time. Elster88 May 15 2009 11:03 PM And Santos hits the sac fly anyway. I dunno. Ceetar May 15 2009 11:07 PM I agree. I know conventional 'logic' says bunt the go ahead run to third, but a sac fly can get the run to third, as can a grounder to the right side. Not like it's Cy Young pitching and you won't have a chance to score. At least tied it's understandable, I _hate_ giving away outs when you have a limited amount, such as Wednesday down 1 in the bot 12. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 18 2009 03:47 PM It ain't a letter grade, but "Torborgian?" OUCH. From a BP chat earlier today: ]Dave (NJ): Starts Jermey Reed at 1b and Daniel Murphy in LF and Gary Sheffield in RF (go get 'em Carlos!) as Ryan Church sits the bench. Starts Gary Sheffield in RF at bats him 4th. Omir Santos starts again! Sacrifice bunts with no one out and a runner on second IN THE FIRST INNING. Pinch hits for Daniel Murphy with Angel F. Pagan with the bases loaded and one out in the 8th inning down by two. These are all things Jerry Manuel did JUST LAST NIGHT. Was he this bad in Chicago? BTW- Mets didn't score in the first (or ever for that matter.) Pagan grounded into a double play. Sheffield went 0 for 4 and left 4 on base. Christina Kahrl: He was, and he will be. That the Mets were impressed with him was proof they didn't remember that this was what happened last time around: Manuel aced his interview, says all the right things in a conference room, and then handicapped his ballclub with his fascination with ways of insinuating himself into the ballgame. I know it means something to Mets fans if I label the man "Torborgian," but that's what you're working with, with a dash of braggadocio to spice things up a bit. John Cougar Lunchbucket May 18 2009 04:09 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]It ain't a letter grade, but "Torborgian?" OUCH. From a BP chat earlier today: ]Dave (NJ): Starts Jermey Reed at 1b and Daniel Murphy in LF and Gary Sheffield in RF (go get 'em Carlos!) as Ryan Church sits the bench. Starts Gary Sheffield in RF at bats him 4th. Omir Santos starts again! Sacrifice bunts with no one out and a runner on second IN THE FIRST INNING. Pinch hits for Daniel Murphy with Angel F. Pagan with the bases loaded and one out in the 8th inning down by two. These are all things Jerry Manuel did JUST LAST NIGHT. Was he this bad in Chicago? BTW- Mets didn't score in the first (or ever for that matter.) Pagan grounded into a double play. Sheffield went 0 for 4 and left 4 on base. Christina Kahrl: He was, and he will be. That the Mets were impressed with him was proof they didn't remember that this was what happened last time around: Manuel aced his interview, says all the right things in a conference room, and then handicapped his ballclub with his fascination with ways of insinuating himself into the ballgame. I know it means something to Mets fans if I label the man "Torborgian," but that's what you're working with, with a dash of braggadocio to spice things up a bit. Yeah not for nothing,, I don't need a newstyled know-it-all sabersnark criticizing Manuel. We can do that ourselves with more precision. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 18 2009 06:21 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2nw4wncc] Yeah not for nothing,, I don't need a newstyled know-it-all sabersnark criticizing Manuel. We can do that ourselves with more precision.[/quote:2nw4wncc] Kahrl's one of the driving forces behind the perennially kickass annuals for which BP gained initial renown and generally not given to undeserved sniping. But yeah, "braggadocio" might have been a but much. John Cougar Lunchbucket May 18 2009 06:24 PM Yeah I know. And the manhands and stuff. "They can't treat our pledges like that. Only WE can treat our pledges like that!" LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 18 2009 06:30 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Yeah I know. And the manhands and stuff. "They can't treat our pledges like that. Only WE can treat our pledges like that!" Elster88 May 18 2009 10:25 PM Batting Pagan leadoff today looks like an A so far. Three hits, one double, scores the tieing run in the top of the eighth from second on a ball that barely gets out of the infield. (second baseman playing way over behind second, a seeing eye single by Sheff, second baseman gets there and throws it in, Pagan just beats the throw) Ashie62 May 19 2009 12:03 AM I still pine for Bobby V Benjamin Grimm May 19 2009 08:18 AM Ryan Church is actually fourth on the team in at bats. Only Beltran, Wright, and Reyes have more. Edgy DC May 19 2009 08:30 AM ="Elster88":3n11mbmf]Batting Pagan leadoff today looks like an A so far. Three hits, one double, scores the tieing run in the top of the eighth from second on a ball that barely gets out of the infield. (second baseman playing way over behind second, a seeing eye single by Sheff, second baseman gets there and throws it in, Pagan just beats the throw)[/quote:3n11mbmf] True, but it's fair to judge these things based on our view of his apparent thinking going in, rather than the outcome. Ceetar May 19 2009 09:01 AM Here's my rant on why we need to fire this bum. http://www.ceetar.com/optimisticmetsfan ... ry-manuel/ Easily the worst manager we've had in at least 15 years. Vic Sage May 19 2009 09:21 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1vr4gym4] Yeah not for nothing,, I don't need a newstyled know-it-all sabersnark criticizing Manuel. We can do that ourselves with more precision.[/quote:1vr4gym4] sabersnark? Bullet of cool, jonny. John Cougar Lunchbucket May 19 2009 09:25 AM ="Ceetar":2cpinc1g]Here's my rant on why we need to fire this bum. http://www.ceetar.com/optimisticmetsfan ... ry-manuel/ Easily the worst manager we've had in at least 15 years.[/quote:2cpinc1g] Managers rarely get fired for making dumb game decisions. It's when the players tune him out that he has to go. Edgy DC May 19 2009 09:32 AM Grady Little excepted. Ceetar May 19 2009 10:28 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2tdcmpvy] ="Ceetar":2tdcmpvy]Here's my rant on why we need to fire this bum. http://www.ceetar.com/optimisticmetsfan ... ry-manuel/ Easily the worst manager we've had in at least 15 years.[/quote:2tdcmpvy] Managers rarely get fired for making dumb game decisions. It's when the players tune him out that he has to go.[/quote:2tdcmpvy] That's only a matter of time. I'd hard to think Murphy and Church, and even Reed and Reyes think he's a good manager. Gwreck May 19 2009 10:47 AM History tells us otherwise. It took an awful long time for Randolph to get fired and he wasn't exactly a master strategist. (And, of course, he wasn't really fired for his game decisions, either). LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 19 2009 12:42 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":1cp3q3jf]Ryan Church is actually fourth on the team in at bats. Only Beltran, Wright, and Reyes have more.[/quote:1cp3q3jf] Everyone but Beltran, Wright and Reyes has been hurt, 40 years old, or Daniel Murphy. Benjamin Grimm May 19 2009 12:51 PM True, but it's kind of hard to argue that he's been buried when only one outfielder has had more playing time than he has. Edgy DC May 19 2009 12:59 PM Nah, I don't think so. He played a lot the first three weeks before the trend began. Since the trend began, he's been (1) frequently bumped in lieu of his apparent lessers, (2) seemingly drawn more lefthanders while Murphy and Reed draw the righties, and (3) slid down the batting order. Gwreck May 19 2009 01:03 PM April ABs Beltran 80 Murphy 68 Church 67 Sheffield 30 Tatis 23 Reed 11 May ABs Beltran 67 Church 49 Tatis 47 Sheffield 40 Murphy 40 Reed 18 Benjamin Grimm May 19 2009 01:03 PM Okay, but in May, he's fifth in at bats: Carlos Beltran 67 David Wright 63 Luis Castillo 54 José Reyes 53 Ryan Church 49 Fernando Tatis 47 Gary Sheffield 40 Daniel Murphy 40 Ramon Castro 37 Alex Cora 30 Elster88 May 19 2009 08:27 PM Pagan had four hits yesterday. Reed threw a ball from the first base position to the backstop. So naturally Manuel starts Murphy in left and Reed at first. Seriously what the fuck is wrong with him? If you have to play Reed and Murphy (and sit Pagan) than at least switch the positions. And as I'm typing this I see Murphy commits a two-base error in left. This is comical. Ashie62 May 19 2009 08:38 PM Jerry Manuel...I think he's probably not much better or worse than anyone else out there. In game managing doesn't get people hired or fired. 41-41 at the break could be a breaking point Personally C- Edgy DC May 20 2009 11:15 PM Letting Murphy start at first. A-. The team was desperate for this. I'd give it a higher grade, but it's so overdue. Pinch-hitting for Churchie, but not Murphy. D+. If you want to pull one of your lefties, pull the first one, because then Torre can't change pitchers. Sending Tatis up there instead of Sheffield. D+. Tatis is your last shortstop in a game where pinch-hitting for your struggling current shortstop needs to remain an option and would eventually happen. Sheffield's position is a hitter, and we needed one of those. Lifting Livan. C-. I suppose it's defensible. But good God. Just once, let a starter at least hint at losing it. Edgy DC May 21 2009 08:25 AM And to clarify, pinching Tatis (the mnorst versatile guy left on the bench) in for Church doesn't have to be a problem, except that he was then double switched out. Why, oh why, do managers persist in double switching when they have seemingly no intention of letting their relievers pitch beyond the one inning? Benjamin Grimm May 21 2009 08:35 AM This push-button managing gets frustrating to watch. I yearn for a manager with above-average intelligence. I think the Mets have only had two guys who fit that description: Davey Johnson and Bobby Valentine. If I was hiring a manager I'd look for a smart guy who dared to be unorthodox. Edgy DC May 21 2009 09:20 AM The problem is that so many of them present as such. And because they are mostly old middle infielders and catchers, they supposedly have a broader understanding of the game. And as unconventional as they may fancy themselves, they end up under siege and paranoid from day one --- ripped if they do something out of the ordinary and it doesn't work, despite the fact that most moves dont' work and most games are won or lost by players no matter what the manager does. They get one tenth the salaries of their stars and maybe one third the contract length, they are utterly disposeable. In the end, they all end up like Willie --- acting inperturbable and above it all while inside you're clearly terrified. You bunt like crazy because you know you're one blown rally away from getting fired. Here's a crazy thought: If I found the guy who fit your description --- smart and daring enough to trust his smarts --- I'd pay him as much as I pay my richest player. Hopefully, knowing that it would be as hard for me to part with him as with Beltran --- harder, actually, as he would have no trade value --- he would be unafraid to act outside the box or discipline his players. Of course, then I might get a Tony LaRussa situation --- a detached freak who wears sunglasses at night, moves his pitchers up in the order, and drives drunk after the game. Benjamin Grimm May 21 2009 09:32 AM Yeah, I thought of LaRussa too. As the ugly downside of a guy who, at first glance, might appear to fit my description of the ideal manager. metirish May 21 2009 09:50 AM I'm not liking Jerry a lot this week , that as always is subject to change. John Cougar Lunchbucket May 21 2009 09:54 AM The thing that bothered me most was going to Putz like a kneejerk. Turns out he had a stiff neck ("the elbow is fine" he lied). I've about had it with Putz and with Jerry leaning on him like he has when it's obvious there may be better choices to be made. Nymr83 May 21 2009 09:59 AM ]Sending Tatis up there instead of Sheffield. D+. Tatis is your last shortstop in a game where pinch-hitting for your struggling current shortstop needs to remain an option and would eventually happen. Sheffield's position is a hitter, and we needed one of those Although i wanted him up there for Muphy, no Church, i have no problem using Tatis over Sheff. Tatis is the better hitter to me, especially a pinch-hitter (if the numbers dont back me up on that then maybe i'm wrong, this is just based on my perception) Edgy DC May 21 2009 10:24 AM I understand lifting Murph istead of Church (he could have lifted 'em both), but I'm trying not to make a deal over C decisions. It's spending his most versatile player that slayed us. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 21 2009 12:22 PM ="Nymr83":1fs6xos9] Although i wanted him up there for Muphy, no Church, i have no problem using Tatis over Sheff. Tatis is the better hitter to me, especially a pinch-hitter (if the numbers dont back me up on that then maybe i'm wrong, this is just based on my perception)[/quote:1fs6xos9] Sadly, the numbers seem to do great violence to you on that (although Tatis, in a teeny-tiny sample size, is doing a touch better, and putting the ball in play more): Tatis: 2009: 8 PA, 2 H, 1 BB, 2 R, 2 RBI .400a/.500ob/.400ops, 6 balls in play Career: 57 PA, 49 AB, 5 R, 5 RBI, 1 XBH, .204a/.281ob/.224ops Sheffield: 2009: 17 PA, 1 H (HR), 6 BB, 3 R, 1 RBI .091/.412/.364, 9 balls in play Career: 51 PA, 36 AB, 10 R, 11 RBI, 3 XBH, .278/.471/.444