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="soupcan":agtyj77b]The whole Yankee broadcast team - Sterling, Waldman, Kay, O'Neill, etc. are just one of the many reasons I'm glad I'm not a Yankee fan.[/quote:agtyj77b]
The problem is, MFY fans must eat this crap up, or it wouldn't sell. I don't know what I'd do if Gary Cohen was that unlistenable. Would I even notice? I don't know.
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Benjamin Grimm
May 18 2009 11:59 AM
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The Mets had their worst broadcast team in 1982. Lorn Brown seemed to suck the life out of Ralph Kiner, and the booth was dreary. The approach I took was like I take now when I'm watching the opposing team's broadcast, or a network announcing team; I focus less on the words and just pay attention to the images.
I suppose I'd do the same if the Mets had mindless shills in their booth. I thikn, though, that we (or at least, I) set a lower bar for our own guys. There are times when I'm listening to Gary, Keith, and/or Ron and I think, if I wasn't a Mets fan watching right now, I'd be groaning and calling them a group of clowns.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 18 2009 12:01 PM
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="seawolf17":adu2uds9]="soupcan":adu2uds9]The whole Yankee broadcast team - Sterling, Waldman, Kay, O'Neill, etc. are just one of the many reasons I'm glad I'm not a Yankee fan.[/quote:adu2uds9]
The problem is, MFY fans must eat this crap up, or it wouldn't sell. I don't know what I'd do if Gary Cohen was that unlistenable. Would I even notice? I don't know.[/quote:adu2uds9]
Four words: Mike Piazza. "Strong hands." (12 years.)
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 18 2009 12:06 PM
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As I've said before, Sterling is awful but I like his rythym and voice and the fact that he's goofy and tries too hard.
But in explaining this recently to a Yankee fan it dawned on me that one of the reasons I like him so much is because he's such an idiot and representing the MFYs at the same time. He's the announcer they deserve.
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Edgy DC
May 18 2009 12:10 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 18 2009 12:11 PM
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Yeah, come on, it's not like our Met glasses obscured our distinctions among good and bad announcing throughout the Healy era.
The funny thing is that the Mets ended up with him by historical accident. He got a job with the Yankees PIX team through the their old boy network. The brand new Sportschannel hired him with the rest of the broadcast team, but as the fourth banana on the Yankee broadcasting team, I guess they couldn't find enough work for him, and they assigned him to do the Mets games as well. They were seemingly just trying to get some work for the contract.
How that accident perpetuated itself for decades has to be one of the great incidences of corporate intertia in sports.
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Gwreck
May 18 2009 12:10 PM
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="Benjamin Grimm":12rdthb9]There are times when I'm listening to Gary, Keith, and/or Ron and I think, if I wasn't a Mets fan watching right now, I'd be groaning and calling them a group of clowns.[/quote:12rdthb9]
I can see that. My general impression is:
Gary + Ron = always very intelligent
Gary + Keith + Ron = mostly good, although too much joking can distract from focus of game
Gary + Keith = problematic, as Gary can get dragged down by Keith's irreverence/goofiness/etc.
The problem generally is Keith. A little more focus and a little less buffoonery would do him well.
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Benjamin Grimm
May 18 2009 12:10 PM
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Confession: I don't think I've watched a Yankee telecast since I was a kid, and the games were done by Bill White and Phil Rizzuto.
So I'm just taking everyone's word that the current team is a bunch of idiots.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 18 2009 12:13 PM
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="Gwreck":3icqqf62]
The problem generally is Keith. A little more focus and a little less buffoonery would do him well.[/quote:3icqqf62]
Agreed. My favorite Met ever, but he's a bit like the team's Kramer, but with a higher sperm count.
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Gwreck
May 18 2009 12:15 PM
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Of course, the big difference is that we're talking about Sterling (radio) as opposed to our TV guys. In the end, as long as Bill Webb is doing a good job, he can cover for whatever Keith is prattling on about at any given moment.
Sterling has a much bigger responsibility given that he's on the radio. If we compared him to Howie or Wayne, well...that's just not going to look very good for Sterling.
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metirish
May 18 2009 12:22 PM
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="Gwreck":1cm2wclz]="Benjamin Grimm":1cm2wclz]There are times when I'm listening to Gary, Keith, and/or Ron and I think, if I wasn't a Mets fan watching right now, I'd be groaning and calling them a group of clowns.[/quote:1cm2wclz]
I can see that. My general impression is:
Gary + Ron = always very intelligent
Gary + Keith + Ron = mostly good, although too much joking can distract from focus of game
Gary + Keith = problematic, as Gary can get dragged down by Keith's irreverence/goofiness/etc.
The problem generally is Keith. A little more focus and a little less buffoonery would do him well.[/quote:1cm2wclz]
I agree with this . I would add that Ron defers to Keith too much when all three are in the booth......."isn't that right Keith" can be heard a lot during a game.
I remember when Ron came over from DC former poster ABG said he was terrible and I think Ron would agree as I have heard him say he's worked a lot on it.
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Edgy DC
May 18 2009 12:31 PM
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I didn't like him at all in DC.
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Ashie62
May 18 2009 02:33 PM
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="Benjamin Grimm":3ko9nf0g]Confession: I don't think I've watched a Yankee telecast since I was a kid, and the games were done by Bill White and Phil Rizzuto.
So I'm just taking everyone's word that the current team is a bunch of idiots.[/quote:3ko9nf0g]
and Frank Messer
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Fman99
May 20 2009 06:57 AM
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="Gwreck":2zbz3uwt]="Benjamin Grimm":2zbz3uwt]There are times when I'm listening to Gary, Keith, and/or Ron and I think, if I wasn't a Mets fan watching right now, I'd be groaning and calling them a group of clowns.[/quote:2zbz3uwt]
I can see that. My general impression is:
Gary + Ron = always very intelligent
Gary + Keith + Ron = mostly good, although too much joking can distract from focus of game
Gary + Keith = problematic, as Gary can get dragged down by Keith's irreverence/goofiness/etc.
The problem generally is Keith. A little more focus and a little less buffoonery would do him well.[/quote:2zbz3uwt]
I disagree. I love all three of them. The best combo is all three but any of the above choices are great. I like Keith's non-chalance and I think both Darling and Mex bring some intelligent analysis mixed with humor as well.
The only guy doing Mets games these days that I still do not like is Wayne Hagin on the radio. He's a hack. Maybe it's because he used to work for another MLB team and doesn't have the former Met/long-time Met fan weight that Howie Rose, Cohen, Mex and Darling all carry.
Plus national broadcasts of Mets games starring the boobs of ESPN and Fox (Morgan, Phillips, Buck, McCarver, etc.) are, of course, all just terrible.
They should throw themselves collectively down a well and survive on eating each other's small and unimaginiative brains, entrails and anuses.
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Gwreck
May 20 2009 07:44 AM
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="Fman99":2zwys8h1]The only guy doing Mets games these days that I still do not like is Wayne Hagin on the radio. He's a hack. Maybe it's because he used to work for another MLB team and doesn't have the former Met/long-time Met fan weight that Howie Rose, Cohen, Mex and Darling all carry.[/quote:2zwys8h1]
Realizing that we're really at split territory in this thread...
Wayne's hardly a hack. It took me a while to acclimate to him but he's brought good perspective to the team and I appreciate his honesty (he doesn't hold back when criticism is warranted). The two things I don't like about him are that his otherwise laid-back style is in sharp contrast to his home run calls, and that on hits with men on base, he's slow to tell the listener about the advancement of the runners around the bases. Seems like he focuses on the ball first and the runners' movement gets passed on after the play ends.
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Frayed Knot
May 20 2009 07:58 AM
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My only reservations about Keith concern what he'd be like with a bad team in front of him. I'm afraid he'd get bored rather easily and would slip into full Phil Rizzutto mode except that his occasional bouts of 'I'd rather be in Sag Harbor' disinterest wouldn't be as cute.
Other than that for the high-school jock sandwiched between two Ivy Leaguers he plays the role well enough without overdoing the stereotype.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 20 2009 07:59 AM
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I still haven't warmed much to Hagin either. I like him only sometimes.
It's not just that he doesn't call plays fast enough for me; he often gets caught up in the middle of anything he's saying and forces out some crap just to complete the sentence. It's as if he catches himself making a cliche and decides mid-stream not to go through with it. It's not good rythym.
Plus he's got that creepy Midwestern/other team perspective that clashes with Howie's hopeless New Yorkishness.
Howie wants to talk about Rusty Staub and Grover Powell; and Hagin wants to talk about Mark Clear and Gene Tanace. Howie wants to talk about My Mother the Car and Hagin wants to talk about Bonanza. It's a little off.
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SteveJRogers
May 20 2009 09:56 AM
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="seawolf17":1lpp27t8]="soupcan":1lpp27t8]The whole Yankee broadcast team - Sterling, Waldman, Kay, O'Neill, etc. are just one of the many reasons I'm glad I'm not a Yankee fan.[/quote:1lpp27t8]
The problem is, MFY fans must eat this crap up, or it wouldn't sell. I don't know what I'd do if Gary Cohen was that unlistenable. Would I even notice? I don't know.[/quote:1lpp27t8]
Actually two popular threads on NYYFans.com are "Petiton To Remove Michael Kay From YES" and "Petition To Remove John Sterling From CBS Radio" so I'd gather it is mixed in terms of Yankee fandom with their annoucing teams.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 20 2009 09:58 AM
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Nice of Rogers to take some time off that place to visit his enemies here.
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SteveJRogers
May 20 2009 10:12 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 20 2009 10:34 AM
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="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1gwq7fqn]Nice of Rogers to take some time off that place to visit his enemies here.[/quote:1gwq7fqn]
Could be worse, over at PhilaPhans.com they've been bashing Tom McCarthy for drawing Mike Piazza references to Ryan Howard tape measure blasts.
Over at Dodger BlueBalls they actually consider Vin Scully a bit overatted because he is such a sacred cow out there.
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soupcan
May 20 2009 10:19 AM
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| ="SteveJRogers"]Over at Dodger BlueBalls they actually consider Vin Scully a bit overatted because he is such a scared cow out there. |
Hmmm, that doesn't look like Vin.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 20 2009 10:48 AM
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="soupcan"]| ="SteveJRogers"]Over at Dodger BlueBalls they actually consider Vin Scully a bit overatted because he is such a scared cow out there. |
Hmmm, that doesn't look like Vin. |
It's play by play-- I think he meant that Vin sounded like a scared cow.
And speaking of scary...
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... p&c_id=mlb
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A Boy Named Seo
May 20 2009 10:59 AM
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| ="Frayed Knot"]My only reservations about Keith concern what he'd be like with a bad team in front of him. I'm afraid he'd get bored rather easily and would slip into full Phil Rizzutto mode except that his occasional bouts of 'I'd rather be in Sag Harbor' disinterest wouldn't be as cute.
Other than that for the high-school jock sandwiched between two Ivy Leaguers he plays the role well enough without overdoing the stereotype. |
Keith gets bored now with a pretty good team. His bafoonery is what makes him my favorite, though. I think Gary is a supremely knowledgeable Met guy, clearly a fan but not annoyingly so. Ron is very knowledgable, but (sometimes) a bland cliche-machine.
Keith brings life to the booth, though because he's so not polished and he doesn't pander to the Mets or the network. He knows the game, has fun most of the time, but will tell you when he'd rather be at home watching Cavuto or whatever. Sometimes we'd all rather be somewhere else. I can't argue it's not unprofessional, but it's refreshing to me anyway and I think he's damn funny.
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G-Fafif
May 20 2009 01:04 PM
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Keith Olbermann story [url=http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/05/vin_scully_voice_of_the_yankee.html]about Vin Scully[/url] that makes even Michael Kay seem likable. Gary referenced it one of the last two nights.
| ]The advent of the Mets' annual visit to Dodger Stadium always reminds me of one of the greatest baseball stories nobody tells.
Let's correct that.
A decade ago, when I was still working full-time in sports and in Los Angeles, it was the Yankees coming to town for an exhibition game, and, with them, my friend Michael Kay, at that time still a member of their radio team. Michael is usually pretty direct, but on the field before the game, he was hemming and hawing something awful until I finally blurted "out with it!" He explained he was just too nervous to introduce himself to the legendary Vin Scully, even though both were not only major league broadcasters, but also alums of Fordham University in New York.
Mike was still repeating his apology when I explained I knew exactly how he felt. When I had first worked in Los Angeles as a local sportscaster in the '80s, it had taken me two years to screw up the courage to introduce myself to this nonpareil of my business. As I reassured Michael, Vin was easily the nicest famous person in the sport, maybe in the country. And he always had a story that in some way related to you.
Little did I know.
As Michael began to hyperventilate, I made the introductions. Vin asked about Fordham, about Mike's youth, about his newspaper career, about the Yankees. And then came the story: "Michael, did you know; Keith, I don't even think I told you this -- I nearly became the Voice of the Yankees?"
Absolute silence for two or three beats, and then, from Kay and Olbermann, a joint "whaaaat?"
"When the Yankees let Mel Allen go in 1964, I got a phone call from the man who they had brought in to run their broadcasting operation, Craig Smith," Vin began. "He had been in charge of the World Series broadcasts forever, so I'd known him about ten years by then. And he asked me if I'd like to come home to New York and become the lead announcer. He offered a very handsome salary, and a long contract.
"Well, I was amazed, as you can imagine. I'd found a wonderful home here in Los Angeles, but remember, this was only seven years after the Dodgers left Brooklyn. I was still a New Yorker through and through. Plus, here was a chance to work again with Red Barber. And recall, too, that this was just before the Yankee dynasty collapsed. As much as Mr. O'Malley had done here and in Brooklyn, the Yankees were still the marquee name in sports. If it had been 1958 or 1959, when I still missed New York so, I would've said yes before he hung up the phone."
"So, I thought long and hard about that one. But I had a young family, and I think we had all just truly adjusted to living here - takes just about seven years, I think - and in the end I turned it down."
Michael and I each sputtered various observations about how changed the baseball world might have been. Vin Scully doing the Yankee games? Would the franchise still have ebbed with such a benign but effective salesman at the microphone? Would the Dodgers' roots, still growing in 1964-1965, have gone in as deeply as they did? Would CBS's failed experiment in corporate ownership have succeeded, and George Steinbrenner never have bought the Yankees? What would have happened to the man to whom the Yankees gave the job Scully turned down? Would Joe Garagiola have ever wound up on The Game Of The Week, or The Today Show?
Vin laughed. "Oh, to tell the truth, I don't think it'd made that much difference. It's not very important." He excused himself to go back to preparing for his broadcast, and, as usual, made it seem like I had done him a great favor by introducing Michael to him. After Vin had left, Michael and I sat there on the Dodger bench for a few moments in silence. Then he said "If he had been the Yankee announcer when I was growing up, I never would have dreamed of applying for a job as his gopher, let alone as his partner." I told him that once again I knew how he felt - it was very tough knowing that my sportscasts often preceded Vin's play-by-play on cable. It seemed somehow a sacrilege to pretend to deserve to be on the same channel.
Still, think of it: 45 years of "Hi again everybody, it's time for Yankee Baseball!" Or maybe Steinbrenner would've quarreled with Vin and eased him out. Or, likeliest of all the alternate-galaxy theories: working in New York, where in the '60s all the network and advertising executives were still located, Vin Scully would've gone on to the Game Of The Week, or something even higher up on the tv food chain, a lot earlier than he actually did.
Who knows - maybe he'd still be doing it - and doing it on NBC. |
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Frayed Knot
May 20 2009 01:41 PM
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| ]Keith brings life to the booth, ... |
Yeah, I'm just afraid he wouldn't if stuck with a team going nowhere. There's a difference to going off the tracks every once in a while during a dull game or long pitching-change filled innings, it's another if it's all game every game.
But that's just my speculation and am getting ahead of myself here.
Hope we don't find out anytime soon.
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G-Fafif
May 20 2009 04:01 PM
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State of the booths as heard from here:
Keith Hernandez is a wild card/loose cannon. Some nights a gem, some nights a goof. Not the baseball genius I thought he'd be. An original, to be sure. I'd miss him if he left.
Ron is a real jock, which is not a bad thing. He really likes being part of a team in there. Sounds happy when he doesn't have to be "Ron Darling, Yalie" and can be Ronnie, one of the guys. A good fit with each of his partners. More comfortable in contemporary climes than Keith.
Someday Wayne Hagin will be doing the Royals or the Twins or the Astros and bring up the way David Wright charges a ball and his listeners will scratch their heads at why he's always referring to some random New York Met. Conversely, those among us who aren't obsessed with such matters will say, in five years, "oh yeah, Wayne Hagin, I forgot about him." He's an insightful observer of baseball matters, a pretty good announcer of baseball games. I don't know that he'll ever be a Mets broadcaster except in name. It's not that we have high standards; we have specific standards. I like him a good deal, but I can't quite get used to him.
Howie Rose is a conversationalist, which is a lost craft in broadcasting today. He came into the business when civility and boundaries were implicit and sports was something people loved, not an all-pervasive industry. He's a bit of an anachronism in that sense, and a welcome one, even as curmudgeonliness slips into his delivery more and more. I don't think of him as a great play-by-play guy probably because I think of him as a great talk show host. He's wonderful between the pitches, sounds like he's putting on when he becomes an announcer (though not as badly as Michael Kay does). He and Hagin will never, ever mesh. That's neither's fault. Howie should keep his seat as long as he wants. Mets fans deserve a Mets voice on the radio.
Gary Cohen is a conductor. He is a maestro. He grows as a broadcaster every year. He was the best thing since Vin Scully on radio and he's lifted his game to a high level on TV. He conducts. He moves the game along. He moves Keith and Ron along without stopping traffic. He still calls the action brilliantly. He questions what needs to be questioned, he emphasizes what needs to be emphasized and he sees what's coming. I'm in awe that he's the Mets' voice of record (and am ever thankful that SNY's original offer to Dave O'Brien to serve in that role was rejected). Whereas Howie seems like a Mets fan who grew up to broadcast Mets games, Gary seems like a broadcaster who was a Mets fan when he was a kid.
Gary Cohen and Bob Murphy were a great team. Gary Cohen and Howie Rose were a great team. Gary Cohen, Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling are a great team. I don't think the common denominator is a coincidence.
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bmfc1
May 22 2009 06:37 AM
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G-Fafif said what I would have said, so I will just recommend your watching this video (NSFW!!!):
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