="Frayed Knot":d5296bru]
What's also apparent is the stock Phillips puts in the "chemistry" part of player procurement. He seems convinced that an average player with so-called intangibles can be a better acquisition than the superior one without.[/quote:d5296bru]
That would be Super Joe McEwing.
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metsguyinmichigan May 25 2009 09:35 AM
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OK, Phillips' comments on Beltran were just plain stupid. And he does seem to take swipes at the Mets.
But I'm not going to wail on him. The Mets were brutal before he became the GM, and he took them to the playoffs twice, and once to the World Series. That might have been the worst outfield to play in a World Series, but it's the "played in the World Series" part that has eluded the people who followed him.
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Ashie62 May 25 2009 09:43 AM
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Dear Mr. Vaccaro. yes you've come a long from Arkansas 15 years ago. You are a leading MFY fan and have blogged how you're greatest moment in sports was your Bob Costas moment in an opposition clubhouse as Scott Brosiuis homered.
Please take your 350 pound stuttering butt, yes thats why sports reporters won't have you on and return to Ark. MFY land with the wife that me and Billy introduced you to before return to NJ when landed that big offer from the star ledger.
Is Steve Philips a jerk? Maybe yes, maybe no, but he's our jerk and we dont need you to point it out.
Mike, I hope there is a chance you see this. Happy Memorial day and enjoy 5 cheeseburgers, on Philips & Beltran of course
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Edgy DC May 25 2009 10:44 AM
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Ashie/Cleon/Grote, staking the inside turf.
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Benjamin Grimm May 25 2009 10:59 AM
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He hasn't been "our jerk" for about six years.
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Rockin' Doc May 25 2009 07:20 PM
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As bizarre and as is criticism of Beltran was, I find his theory on pitcher run support absolutely idiotic.
I have heard him say on more than one occasion now that, "Pitchers get the run support they deserve." According to his idiotic theory, some pitchers get a lot of runs scored for them when they pitch because they earn them, while other pitchers receive very little offensive support because that is all they deserve. By his idiotic reasoning, there is something in the personna and style of some pitchers that somehow influences the offensive support they receive from their team mates. When I first heard him spout this crazy hteory on Basball Tonight after Santana lost to Lowe and the Braves at Citi Field. Phillips stated that the Mets just don't score runs for Santana because that is ""all he deserved".
John Kruk looked at Phillips like he had lost his mind. Kruk essentially said that he wasn't buying it and that Phillips' theory made no sense to him.
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Edgy DC May 25 2009 09:25 PM
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Good for Kruk.
By my count, Beltran's excellent three-year run --- rather than being "unrivaled" in Mets history --- is the 11th-best three-year hitting run in Mets history, although there are some ovelaps. Defense and baserunning are excluded.
<table border="1" bordercolor="black" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"><tr bgcolor="tan"><td><b>Player</td><td align="center"><b>Year</td><td align="center"><b>PA</td><td align="center"><b>OPS+</td><td align="center"><b>PA * (OPS+ - 60)</td></tr><tr><td>Straw</td><td align="center">1986</td><td align="center">562</td><td align="center">139</td><td align="center">44,398</td></tr><tr><td>Straw</td><td align="center">1987</td><td align="center">640</td><td align="center">162</td><td align="center">65,280</td></tr><tr><td>Straw</td><td align="center">1988</td><td align="center">640</td><td align="center">165</td><td align="center">67,200</td></tr><tr><td><b>Tot</td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><b>176,878</td></tr><tr><td>Straw</td><td align="center">1987</td><td align="center">640</td><td align="center">162</td><td align="center">65,280</td></tr><tr><td>Straw</td><td align="center">1988</td><td align="center">640</td><td align="center">165</td><td align="center">67,200</td></tr><tr><td>Straw</td><td align="center">1989</td><td align="center">541</td><td align="center">125</td><td align="center">35,165</td></tr><tr><td><b>Tot</td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><b>167,645</td></tr><tr><td>Wright</td><td align="center">2006</td><td align="center">661</td><td align="center">133</td><td align="center">48,253</td></tr><tr><td>Wright</td><td align="center">2007</td><td align="center">711</td><td align="center">150</td><td align="center">63,990</td></tr><tr><td>Wright</td><td align="center">2008</td><td align="center">735</td><td align="center">141</td><td align="center">59,535</td></tr><tr><td><b>Tot</td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><b>171,778</td></tr><tr><td>Olerud</td><td align="center">1997</td><td align="center">630</td><td align="center">135</td><td align="center">47,250</td></tr><tr><td>Olerud</td><td align="center">1998</td><td align="center">665</td><td align="center">163</td><td align="center">68,495</td></tr><tr><td>Olerud</td><td align="center">1999</td><td align="center">723</td><td align="center">128</td><td align="center">49,164</td></tr><tr><td><b>Tot</td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><b>164,909</td></tr><tr><td>Wright</td><td align="center">2005</td><td align="center">657</td><td align="center">139</td><td align="center">51,903</td></tr><tr><td>Wright</td><td align="center">2006</td><td align="center">661</td><td align="center">133</td><td align="center">48,253</td></tr><tr><td>Wright</td><td align="center">2007</td><td align="center">711</td><td align="center">150</td><td align="center">63,990</td></tr><tr><td><b>Tot</td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><b>164,146</td></tr><tr><td>Straw</td><td align="center">1985</td><td align="center">470</td><td align="center">164</td><td align="center">48,880</td></tr><tr><td>Straw</td><td align="center">1986</td><td align="center">562</td><td align="center">139</td><td align="center">44,398</td></tr><tr><td>Straw</td><td align="center">1987</td><td align="center">640</td><td align="center">162</td><td align="center">65,280</td></tr><tr><td><b>Tot</td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><b>158,558</td></tr><tr><td>Johnson</td><td align="center">1989</td><td align="center">655</td><td align="center">169</td><td align="center">71,395</td></tr><tr><td>Johnson</td><td align="center">1990</td><td align="center">668</td><td align="center">106</td><td align="center">30,728</td></tr><tr><td>Johnson</td><td align="center">1991</td><td align="center">658</td><td align="center">145</td><td align="center">55,930</td></tr><tr><td><b>Tot</td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><b>158,053</td></tr><tr><td>Johnson</td><td align="center">1987</td><td align="center">645</td><td align="center">133</td><td align="center">47,085</td></tr><tr><td>Johnson</td><td align="center">1988</td><td align="center">594</td><td align="center">124</td><td align="center">38,016</td></tr><tr><td>Johnson</td><td align="center">1989</td><td align="center">655</td><td align="center">169</td><td align="center">71,395</td></tr><tr><td><b>Tot</td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><b>156,496</td></tr><tr><td>Hernandez</td><td align="center">1984</td><td align="center">657</td><td align="center">143</td><td align="center">54,531</td></tr><tr><td>Hernandez</td><td align="center">1985</td><td align="center">682</td><td align="center">129</td><td align="center">47,058</td></tr><tr><td>Hernandez</td><td align="center">1986</td><td align="center">652</td><td align="center">140</td><td align="center">52,160</td></tr><tr><td><b>Tot</td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><b>153,749</td></tr><tr><td>Straw</td><td align="center">1988</td><td align="center">640</td><td align="center">165</td><td align="center">67,200</td></tr><tr><td>Straw</td><td align="center">1989</td><td align="center">541</td><td align="center">125</td><td align="center">35,165</td></tr><tr><td>Straw</td><td align="center">1990</td><td align="center">621</td><td align="center">140</td><td align="center">49,680</td></tr><tr><td><b>Tot</td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><b>152,045</td></tr><tr><td>Piazza</td><td align="center">1999</td><td align="center">593</td><td align="center">155</td><td align="center">56,335</td></tr><tr><td>Piazza</td><td align="center">2000</td><td align="center">545</td><td align="center">147</td><td align="center">47,415</td></tr><tr><td>Piazza</td><td align="center">2001</td><td align="center">573</td><td align="center">137</td><td align="center">44,121</td></tr><tr><td><b>Tot</td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><b>147,871</td></tr><tr><td>Beltran</td><td align="center">2006</td><td align="center">617</td><td align="center">150</td><td align="center">55,530</td></tr><tr><td>Beltran</td><td align="center">2007</td><td align="center">636</td><td align="center">126</td><td align="center">41,976</td></tr><tr><td>Beltran</td><td align="center">2008</td><td align="center">706</td><td align="center">129</td><td align="center">48,714</td></tr><tr><td><b>Tot</td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><br></td><td align="center"><b>146,220</td></tr></table>
Steve Phillips should maybe recall some of those.
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Triple Dee May 25 2009 10:23 PM
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Yeah, a three year span is pretty selective criteria to begin with (and encompasses less than 1/2 of Beltran's contract.)
Now, if he had said "Unrivaled by any other center fielder......." he would have come across better, because that's where I think Beltran's true worth is.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 25 2009 10:34 PM
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="Edgy DC"]Steve Phillips should maybe recall some of those. |
To be fair, the "unrivaled" line is Vaccaro's, not Phillips', no?
Good thing that a guy who's so lazy with research that could be done in a few keystrokes/mouse clicks doesn't, say, have any influence beyond his regular reading audience, because that would be...
From the BBWAA Badge List:
]1998: 403 Mike Vaccaro New York Post New York |
Well, of course he's a HOF voter.
http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?opti ... Itemid=111
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TheOldMole May 25 2009 10:37 PM
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The thing was, he wouldn't shut up. He must have gone on for about 3 innings on leadership and how the Mets don't have any and how David Wright might be the leader some day but he's still too young but if the Mets are going to have a leader it will have to be him because Beltran blah blah blah and you know every team has to have a leader and the Mets just don't have a leader and...
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Number 6 May 25 2009 10:48 PM
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="Rockin' Doc":ebwjh7jr]I have heard him say on more than one occasion now that, "Pitchers get the run support they deserve." [/quote:ebwjh7jr]
This incident was the subject of one of FJM's best posts. Unfortunately, I couldn't isolate the post on its own, so check out [url=http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2006_04_01_archive.html:ebwjh7jr]this link[/url:ebwjh7jr] and scroll down to April 24th. It includes a transcript of the incident and, of course, their inimitable commentary.
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Triple Dee May 25 2009 11:13 PM
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Hahahahaha! That was hilarious. I've reproduced it below for other's convenience.
="FJM"]
I Can't Believe What I'm Watching
I hope someone else is watching Baseball Tonight right now, because I want to be sure I'm not experiencing some sort of FJM-wish-fulfillment hallucination.
Your lineup:
Karl Ravech
John Kruk
Harold Reynolds
Steve Phillips
Andy Pettitte's getting lousy run support tonight, and Ravech asks his friends, the baseball experts, how you get run support. My first reaction: that is a bad question, Mr. Ravech, sir, and I believe the correct answer is that you get run support by having a team that is good at scoring runs, plain and simple. That, and being lucky. My second reaction: three men are about to embarrass themselves on national TV. And they do not disappoint.
(GRAPHIC: (I shit you not)
Harold: it's easier to hit with poor starting pitching)
He means poor starting pitching on your own team.
HR: I think a lot of times you see these clubs with great pitchers, and the great pitchers struggle to get runs, I think a lot of times, teams go in there and go, "We're not going to get a whole lot of runs today, you know, with this guy pitching." I think a lot of times when you have poor pitching (he really punches these two words) going, you know you gotta score some runs! (Really emphatic there.) And it becomes a mindset. You change the style of play that you play, you end up trying to bang a little bit more, you do a lot of things differently. I think when you know you have to score runs, it changes your style of offense.
Harold Reynolds must have a Ph.D. in mind-reading from the Sorbonne. It's easier to hit with poor starting pitching? "Easier"??? This is astonishing news. No wonder the Yankees are such good hitters. They're always trying to bang a little more, what with Jaret Wright constantly bumbling on the mound in the other half of the inning. Honestly, guys, who's going to acknowledge that the pitcher isn't responsible for getting his own guys to hit? Oh no, John Kruk is about to talk.
JK: See, I think it's easier to score runs when you have a pitcher on your side who's pitching for you --
As opposed to the embedded spy pitchers.
-- that is a great pitcher, because you know you don't have to score that many. And what it does, is, you know if you go up with a runner on third with less than two outs and you don't bring the run in, you think to yourself, "All right, well, so what? They're not going to score either. We'll have more opportunities."
So Krukie disagrees with Harold, but only because he thinks the exact opposite -- guys perform better for good pitchers! He did it -- he said the only thing that could possibly be dumber than what Harold said!
JK: Problem is, when you have a bad pitcher, and you don't deliver --
KR: (dull monotone) You're dead.
Ravech glassy-eyed, barely functioning.
JK: You know you're done!
(Crosstalk.)
HR: That means you gotta execute all the time!
JK: Not with a great pitcher. You can relax with a great pitcher.
HR: With a bad pitcher, you got to score runs.
This is amazing. You've got two guys arguing, extremely agitated, unbelievably passionate, and they're both wrong. It's like watching two Visigoths argue over whether the earth is square or shaped like the outline of a duck. Will somebody please speak up for reason? For logic? For just plain common sense?
SP: You're both wrong.
Thank you.
Because I don't think it's about the quality of the pitcher, it's about the pitcher and the atmosphere he creates for the team.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
(GRAPHIC:
Steve: pitchers earn their run support)
What the hell? Do you think he really believes this? Does Steve Phillips really think that Freddy Garcia (5.96 RS in 2005) "earned" better run support than Mark Buehrle (4.15) last year? How about David Wells (7.97) and Tim Wakefield (4.79)? The Red Sox hitters gave their all for someone pretty much everyone agrees is a grade-A asshole and phoned it in for a devout Christian who loves his wife and kids? (Note: may not be accurate representation of either man.) Is that what happened?
There's a rhythm and a flow that happens to a team when things are going well. When you're scoring runs, when you're playing well -- pitchers who work too quickly sometimes get their hitters out of a flow; they work too slowly, they get out of the flow. And when you have a star on the mound, sometimes everybody stands around and watches. Roger Clemens shut out nine times last year when he pitched for the Astros -- shut out seventeen times. I just think it's about the environment that the pitcher creates!
Oh, that's why Johan Santana got the best run support of anyone on the Twins last year. Because he's not a star.
HR: You're not watching when you're hitting! He ain't pitching against you!
SP: It's about the environment that the pitcher creates.
KR: (incredulous) You believe that? (dripping with sarcasm) They're so enamored with Clemens, they're just -- they can't do anything?
To be fair, Karl, you brought this up. Or maybe this was a bad producer's idea.
SP: I think they watch on days he pitches.
JK: (outraged) If that's the case, then the Houston Astros -- apologies to them -- they are the dumbest hitters in the world. If they're watching their pitcher and not concentrating on scoring runs, they're the dumbest team in the baseball [sic] and I don't believe they are.
But, but -- you just said guys hit better for good pitchers ... meaning they hit worse for bad pitchers. Why is that any less crazy? Steve is talking about environment or flow or rhythm or whatever bullshit he just came up with off the top of his head, but you're clearly just guessing when you say guys are more "relaxed" when good pitchers are on the mound.
KR: (incredibly sorry he brought the whole thing up)
I guess I'll keep watching this good show about baseball!
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OlerudOwned May 26 2009 12:59 AM
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="Number 6":1uyarz4z]="Rockin' Doc":1uyarz4z]I have heard him say on more than one occasion now that, "Pitchers get the run support they deserve." [/quote:1uyarz4z]
This incident was the subject of one of FJM's best posts. Unfortunately, I couldn't isolate the post on its own, so check out [url=http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2006_04_01_archive.html:1uyarz4z]this link[/url:1uyarz4z] and scroll down to April 24th. It includes a transcript of the incident and, of course, their inimitable commentary.[/quote:1uyarz4z] Man oh man, do I miss FJM. Was happy to find that Junior (Alan Yang) was actually the writer of one of the episodes of the series Ken Tremendous (Michael Schur) is producing.
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duan May 26 2009 04:17 AM
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what's hilarious about it is that Steve doesn't even remember his own crackpot theories. "I just think it's about the environment that the pitcher creates!
Oh, that's why Johan Santana got the best run support of anyone on the Twins last year. Because he's not a star. "
versus "This came a few days after this spectacular pearl from Phillips about why the Mets don't score for Johan Santana: "They don't hit for Santana. I think part of it is because he is the ace on the mound. They think it's a low-scoring game, he is not going to give up runs. It's just this rhythm of the game that he has. Steve Trachsel used to pitch for the Mets, the slowest worker ever. He never got run support. And I think he earned it." "
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Fman99 May 26 2009 06:08 AM
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Steve Phillips the analyst is as big of a boob as Steve Phillips the GM ever was.
If you could have each of them (the commentator, and the general manager) as two separate heads, and stuff them into a 44D bra, you'd have your own personal Mrs. Jose Lima.
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batmagadanleadoff May 26 2009 06:43 AM
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Thanks to Phillips, I now understand why Johan Santana's Earned Run Average is so low.
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Edgy DC May 26 2009 07:11 AM
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="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3162kxkg]="Edgy DC":3162kxkg]Steve Phillips should maybe recall some of those.[/quote:3162kxkg]
To be fair, the "unrivaled" line is Vaccaro's, not Phillips', no?[/quote:3162kxkg]
Yeah, I know. That was just the bone I wanted to pick, my concluding line aside.
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Centerfield May 26 2009 09:18 AM
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I'm pretty sure I'm dumber after having heard that Baseball Tonight exchange.
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