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Triple Dee
May 30 2009 03:39 AM
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Strasburg takes his first loss of the season, but still manages 15Ks in 7 innings. Apparently, his first fastball was deposited over left field.
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Frayed Knot
May 30 2009 06:35 AM
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I tuned in briefly to check things out and so my first glimpse of Strasburg was watching him give up HR - 1B - 1B to the 2nd, 3rd & 4th batters he faced and throw 50+ pitches in two innings.
Seems like he settled down after that.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 08 2009 10:53 AM
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Snooze today:
| ]Carlos Beltran will closely monitor the opening rounds of tomorrow's amateur draft. Beltran's cousin, Reymond Fuentes Beltran, is projected to go early, perhaps before the Mets have a chance to take him with their first pick, 72nd overall. The younger Beltran is a lefty-hitting center fielder, who can run the 60-yard dash in 6.2-6.3 seconds.
"He's going to be a good player - not because he's my cousin, just judging by the talent he has," the Mets center fielder said. "He's very disciplined. For being young, he loves to work. That's what impresses me the most." |
John Sickels' "mock draft" also has the Mets selecting a legacy in the 2nd round. Ruben Sierra Jr. with pick # 103.
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DocTee
Jun 08 2009 10:57 AM
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I work with the uncle of Sacramento State CF Tim Wheeler (BA prospect #15). He's a great talent and a good kid. Only a Junior, but he holds all sorts of school (and some league) records.
Wouldn't be surprised to see him go to the Giants at #7, who had him in recently for a look-see.
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Frayed Knot
Jun 08 2009 11:32 AM
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Giants actually pick 6th overall.
BA's mock draft doesn't have him going quite that high but does speculate about him getting picked by the other local team (and the one with Sacramento as their top farm team) at 13th overall.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/dr ... 68298.html
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DocTee
Jun 08 2009 11:48 AM
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That'd be cool, since then I could hit his uncle up for free tix and whatnot.
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Frayed Knot
Jun 09 2009 05:05 PM
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Strasburg goes 1st - to absolutely no one's surprise.
Several HS pitchers picked in the top 10 which has been away from recent trends.
If you want to bring some excitement to your next corporate outing ... don't ask Bud Selig to do the honors. I swear the guy could dampen a parade of Hooters girls without even trying.
At the pace they're moving tonight's game might be over before they get around to the two NYM picks that'll go up today (#s 72 & 103)
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DocTee
Jun 09 2009 06:42 PM
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Giants take Wheeler with sixth pick. Zack Wheeler, that is, and not the one I had projected. He's still (surprisingly) on the board.
OE: To Colorado with the last pick of the first round.
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DocTee
Jun 09 2009 07:59 PM
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Meet the Matz: Mets tab local lefty with first pick.
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Frayed Knot
Jun 09 2009 08:04 PM
Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Jun 09 2009 08:59 PM
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Wow, a Long Island boy!
Steven Matz, a LHP from the Lacrosse powerhouse of Ward Melville HS on Suffolk County's north shore
Born in 19991 people!!
(turned 18 two weeks ago)
Kevin Goldstein from BP:
The Mets wake up from their nearly four hour nap (only the Phillies waited longer to make a pick) and take Steven Matz, a solid lefty from Long Island with their fist pick at #72.
John Franco making the pick with his accent was especially fitting.
Not a sexy, exciting pick, but he belonged around here.
MLB.com:
Matz, a 6-foot-3, 185-pound southpaw, was 6-1 with a 0.47 ERA for Ward Melville his senior season, with 81 strikeouts in just 44 innings. He allowed just 11 hits and 15 walks in his seven starts.
Matz throws a fastball consistently in the low 90s mph and can reach 94 mph on the radar gun. The 18-year-old has the potential to throw even harder once he fills out physically and cleans up a currently violent delivery.
He has also displayed a curveball and changeup as secondary pitches in his arsenal. Matz is not consistent with either pitch yet, but scouts expect his curveball to be above-average at the next level.
Matz is committed to play college baseball at Coastal Carolina.
Yeah, Coastal Carolina was part of the College World Series this year but I'm betting he signs.
Now I just hope we don't find out that he's a YLDB
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Frayed Knot
Jun 09 2009 08:39 PM
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Pick #103 = Robbie Shields, SS, R/R, Florida Southern
6' 1" - 185; 12/7/87
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Edgy DC
Jun 09 2009 09:17 PM
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Matz's glove looks older than he is.
<img src="http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2009-03/45875267.jpg">
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metirish
Jun 10 2009 07:19 AM
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Red Sox take Beltran's cousin.
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metsguyinmichigan
Jun 10 2009 07:24 AM
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What's with Flying Elvis Patriot on his uniform?
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Frayed Knot
Jun 10 2009 07:38 AM
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="metsguyinmichigan":2apa6ei0]What's with Flying Elvis Patriot on his uniform?[/quote:2apa6ei0]
It's the Ward Melville Patriots, I believe. Or is it the Colonials?
I forget, but it does look like some logo designer got double-duty out of one design.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2009 08:19 AM
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Who will be the first "friend" styeve Matz on Facebook? Got a page I see.
Hmmm. Robbie Shields seems to also...
[url:335ajqin]http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=386a3d5595d459518e616c4c433f9e96&gid=2210051573&ref=search[/url:335ajqin]
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2009 10:29 AM
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Holy shit, we just drafted a guy named Damien Magnifico
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metirish
Jun 10 2009 10:31 AM
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WOW , that's well , magnificent ...what # will he wear when he gets to the big club?....7 is obvious I suppose.
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Swan Swan H
Jun 10 2009 10:31 AM
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| ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Holy shit, we just drafted a guy named Damien Magnifico |
Reyes or no Reyes, this guy has to wear #7
oe: Irish gets in under the wire to nip Swannie.
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OlerudOwned
Jun 10 2009 10:36 AM
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The Angels drafted one Mike Trout yesterday, edging him along the path to his destiny, an AL West Highlander-type struggle with Mike Carp.
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bmfc1
Jun 10 2009 10:38 AM
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I can't believe this stuff is out there:
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:3yE ... =firefox-a
Just a simple Google search for Mr. Magnifico (94 mph fastball) got his ex-girlfriend's My Space page.
The current page does not mention Mr. Magnifico.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2009 10:40 AM
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="Swan Swan H"]| ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Holy shit, we just drafted a guy named Damien Magnifico |
Reyes or no Reyes, this guy has to wear #7
oe: Irish gets in under the wire to nip Swannie. |
He's a pitcher, so that would be a stretch. Maybe 77?
Magnifico was round 5.
We balance things out in Round 6 with a normal-named guy, David Buchanan.
Round 4 was an outfielder, Darrell Ceciliani
Say hi to Darrell
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bmfc1
Jun 10 2009 10:43 AM
Edited 4 time(s), most recently on Jun 10 2009 11:01 AM
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I'm no scout, and the clips on mlb.com may not be representative of the player, but I like Ceciliani's swing better than the swing of the second pick, Shields.
Round-by-round review of the Mets picks here:
http://macksmets.blogspot.com/
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 10 2009 10:46 AM
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| ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Holy shit, we just drafted a guy named Damien Magnifico |
Are we sure that this isn't a David Foster Wallace character who throws imaginary 94-mph fastballs?
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metirish
Jun 10 2009 10:48 AM
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While you are not a scout you did attend Mets fantasy camp and that qualifies you in my book to throw your eye at a player and make such astute observations.
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bmfc1
Jun 10 2009 10:50 AM
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Thank you metirish.
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Frayed Knot
Jun 10 2009 10:52 AM
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#134 overall - Darrell Cicilani is a 19 y/o (next week) 6' 1"/185; L/L CFer from Columbia Basin Community College
#164 - Damien Magnifico; 6' 1"/180; RHP from North Mesquite HS; 18 y/o last month
#194 - David Buchanan; 20 y/o' 6' 3"; RHP from Chipola Jr College
#224 - Darian Gorski; LHP; 6' 4"/210; 21 y/o from Klutztown Univ
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bmfc1
Jun 10 2009 10:54 AM
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The Mets with a run on guys with first names that beginning with D!
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2009 10:54 AM
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There's video of Gorski: That's one big Pollack lefty.
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Frayed Knot
Jun 10 2009 11:06 AM
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#254 - John Freeman; 6' 0"/200 catcher; L/R; 21 y/o from McNeese State
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bmfc1
Jun 10 2009 11:11 AM
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The Nationals have already signed Storen, their #2 first rounder.
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metirish
Jun 10 2009 11:17 AM
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Gary and the guys talking about the draft last night said Boras is looking for $50 million Strasburg , it didn't sound like Gary was joking to me but $50 million?
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 10 2009 11:19 AM
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The A's Twitter feed-- "We've been scouting this guy since HS..." "Trust us, he'll be a good one..." "He's like Brett Anderson, but not as big..."-- is vaguely amusing.
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bmfc1
Jun 10 2009 11:19 AM
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That's what Boras says the number is for Strasburg. The fifteen Nationals fans are petrified that the Lerner's will refuse to pay what Boras wants and history will repeat itself.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 10 2009 11:20 AM
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="metirish":3fq9g7ew]Gary and the guys talking about the draft last night said Boras is looking for $50 million Strasburg , it didn't sound like Gary was joking to me but $50 million?[/quote:3fq9g7ew]
That's the idea floated by Boras.
The previous record bonus is Prior's 10.5 mil. I'm guessing they'll settle at a number somewhere in between the two figures.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 10 2009 11:27 AM
Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jun 10 2009 11:30 AM
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Eighth-round: Another catcher, this time a high schooler-- 6'3", 185 lb. Floridian Jeffrey Glenn.
Ninth-round pick: New Jerseyan/Dartmouth junior OF Nick Santomauro. Hi Nick!
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2009 11:29 AM
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Ivy League player of the year!
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 10 2009 11:47 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 10 2009 11:56 AM
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Round 10: Tulane 1B, Samuel Honeck.
Height-- 6'2"
Weight-- 215
Hometown-- Austin, Texas (Stay weird!)
Senior stats-- .313/.450/.630 with 16 hr and a 1.2 BB/K ratio.
Odds he gets nicknamed "No-neck" by at least one enterprising minor-league coach-- Off the board
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Frayed Knot
Jun 10 2009 11:51 AM
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="metirish":1o86vgxg]Gary and the guys talking about the draft last night said Boras is looking for $50 million Strasburg , it didn't sound like Gary was joking to me but $50 million?[/quote:1o86vgxg]
Somewhere along the line Boras, or someone in his camp, floated the idea of linking Strasberg's deal with the contract that Matsuzaka got, (around $50mil) based on the idea that neither had pitched in MLB yet but were ready to step right in. Media types have taken that figure and run with it even though I don't think anyone has mentioned that number specifically.
Of course the idea is absurd since Dice-K had 7 or 8 seasons of Japanese professional ball under his belt plus various int'l competitions as compared to Strasberg and his 3 seasons of college ball (and only 1-2 good ones). But a bunch of the trial balloons Boras floats out there are absurd; he once tried to link Ollie Perez with Sandy Koufax based on the idea that both were hard-throwing LHPs with control problems early in their career. But since Sandy got his act together at age whatever Ollie could be expected to follow suit too. Nice try Scott. Hey, my kind's in honors math in 6th grade [u:1o86vgxg]just like Einstein was[/u:1o86vgxg] so I guess I can count on my kid being a Princeton professor by the time he's 30!
Thing is, these wild ideas get him and his client publicity which is rarely a bad thing in negotiations. By the end, the deal he'll end up agreeing to will probably seem like such a bargain compared to the pie-in-the-sky speculation thrown out at the beginning that the team could feel that they're getting a bargain and that they've "beaten" Boras at his own game, even if it's for a higher number than anyone has before seen for an amateur. And if the press wants to paint Boras as the loser for being "forced to settle" for far below what he first asked for I think he can live with that just fine as he prepares his next guy for a record-setting deal.
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G-Fafif
Jun 10 2009 11:54 AM
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Any word on whether the Long Island kid grew up a Mets fan? If he did, I imagine the Mets would be spreading the word.
Let's Go Matz. It's a natural.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 10 2009 12:08 PM
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The official press release has nothing about Matz' fandom:
| ]FLUSHING, N.Y. -- The New York Mets selected left-handed pitcher Steven Matz with their first selection, 72nd overall, in the 2009 First-Year Player Draft.
Matz, a senior at Ward Melville High School in East Setauket, NY, went 6-1 with a 0.47 ERA in his first seven starts of the season. In 44 innings, he allowed 11 hits, 15 walks with 81 strikeouts.
Matz, 18, tossed a two-hitter with 11 strikeouts and two walks in a complete game in the first round of the Class AA playoff on May 19th. The 6-2, 192-pounder also went 2-for-2 with two runs and an RBI.
With the 103rd pick, the Mets selected Robert Shields, a 6-0, 220-pound shortstop out of Florida Southern College. The 21-year-old Shields, a junior, hit .345 (76-220) with 65 runs scored, 19 doubles, two triples, five home runs, 37 RBIs and 10 stolen bases in 57 games for the Division II Moccasins this season. A native of Dade City, Fla., Shields hit .329 (215-653) over his three-year career at Florida Southern, while starting all 167 games. He was named second-team all Sunshine State Conference as a sophomore. |
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2009 12:21 PM
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Round 13: Zachary Dotson, Highs chool lefty who wants to go to kollege there. Soon to be known as Zachary Nissan.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2009 12:28 PM
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Round 14: Outfielder R.J. Harris. I'd like to have dinner with his grandmother.
| ]R.J. is a junior transfer from the University of Texas in Arlington. He is a Finance and Banking major from North Crowley High School. An accomplished fielder, Harris earned All-District honors and was selected to play in the N.H.S.C.A All-Star game in 2005. Harris is considered by his friends as easy going and cool to be around. "People don't know that I love to skateboard," said R.J. He continues, "My favorite meal is Grandma Gafford's chicken fried steak, watermelon, and sweet tea." He states that his most significant accomplishment in baseball is going 10 for 10 gainst Texas Wesleyan last year. After graduation, R.J. would like to play in the major leagues. |
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 10 2009 12:29 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 10 2009 12:30 PM
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Round 15: Casey Schmidt, junior RHP, University of San Diego. Was thisclose to being passed over for soph lefty Gene Mauch Strawberry.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2009 12:30 PM
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Mike Schmidt's daughter?
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 10 2009 12:31 PM
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| ="bmfc1"]http://usdtoreros.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/schmidt_casey00.html
It looks like Schmidt hasn't played for two years. That means he's rested! |
Um... hooray?
| ]R.J. is a junior transfer from the University of Texas in Arlington. He is a Finance and Banking major from North Crowley High School. |
You can major in "Finance and Banking" in high school?
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2009 12:37 PM
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RJ slugged .832, batted .416 walked almost as much as he whiffed this year. This guy is a stud! Plus, he skateboards to class.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 10 2009 12:39 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 10 2009 12:42 PM
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Florida's centerfielder-- Den Dekker-- JUST went?
I remember hearing good stuff about him all last year, and caught a few nice plays in the field-- brilliant defensively in center. Struggled a bit with the bat, but talented... could've been an interesting get this late.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 10 2009 12:42 PM
Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jun 10 2009 12:54 PM
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Atlanta Braves-- Only 4 Georgians out of 16 draftees? What the hell, Wren?
EDIT: Apparently, I'm a mild telepath-- the last two picks were Georgian.
Lemme try something: You haven't traded us Vazquez? What the hell, Wren?
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2009 12:44 PM
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="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":1n8e9sz5]Florida's centerfielder-- Den Dekker-- JUST went?
I remember hearing good stuff about him all last year, and caught a few nice plays in the field-- brilliant defensively in center. Struggled a bit with the bat, but talented... could've been an interesting get this late.[/quote:1n8e9sz5]
He's not easy going and cool to be around like RJ Harris.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 10 2009 12:52 PM
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="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1yoaxzdx]="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":1yoaxzdx]Florida's centerfielder-- Den Dekker-- JUST went?
I remember hearing good stuff about him all last year, and caught a few nice plays in the field-- brilliant defensively in center. Struggled a bit with the bat, but talented... could've been an interesting get this late.[/quote:1yoaxzdx]
He's not easy going and cool to be around like RJ Harris.[/quote:1yoaxzdx]
Rj Harris doesn't have a name like a ST:TNG character.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 10 2009 01:00 PM
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Welcome to the family, Cody Holliday (Wilmington College OF, Central Athletic Collegiate Conference player of the year).
Also, I'm guessing this guy will have to urinate on demand with uncommon frequency:
546) ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS-- Roidany Aguila, C, Colegio Nuestra Senora de la Providencia
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2009 01:08 PM
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Damn. I was hoping the Mets would never employ a guy named Cody.
He's from the same home town as Cal Ripken Jr., beautiful Havre de Grace, Md. Back when I lived in Delaware it was Wilmington College, now Wilmington U.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2009 01:15 PM
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Our Round 19 guy hopefully catches Damien Magnifico:
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metirish
Jun 10 2009 01:30 PM
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What's that on his face?
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Benjamin Grimm
Jun 10 2009 01:53 PM
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I think that is his face.
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metirish
Jun 10 2009 01:58 PM
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Nelfi in the Boston Globe
| ]
A crushing blow from Zapata in English's triumph
By Andrew Petrie
Globe Correspondent / May 27, 2008
Nelfi Zapata wore a wide smile as he pumped his fist and rounded first base. The junior catcher had just ignited the widely pro-Boston English crowd into a frenzy with a mammoth home run that landed on a street beyond the left-field bleachers. It was only the fourth inning, but the game was over.
more stories like this
Fueled by back-to-back home runs by Zapata and third baseman Starling Gonzalez, North Division champ English (18-2) went on to crush South Division co-champions West Roxbury in the Boston City championship, 13-0, in Jamaica Plain. It was English's third consecutive city title.
"This is a close, great team," English coach Rich Beyer beamed while holding the championship trophy. "To me, it's like they're my kids. They take the game very seriously, they love to practice, and it's great to coach this bunch of players."
It was fitting that Zapata, the team's captain, was an integral factor in the victory. The junior knocked in four runs on two hits and called a fantastic game for Jhonneris Mendez. Beyer pointed to Zapata's leadership skills as a major reason for the team's success the past few seasons.
"It's great knowing I have him around another year, what he shows on and off the field is just phenomenal," said Beyer, who is in his second year at English. "I hope people got to see what he did today. He's got the talent and baseball skills to play on the next level."
Beyer noted a time when Zapata ran after practice with the junior varsity squad in front of the varsity players and how he constantly pushed the coaches to extend practice hours into the night.
"We come early in the morning to practice, we try to stay late after games, we work hard," Zapata said. "It's a complete team effort.'
"Three [championship] years in a row," he continued. "It's a great day."
The Bulldogs used three scoring spurts to put the game away. In the second inning they scored four runs after two were out, with two scoring on a ground-rule double by Kleysi Mendez that bounced into the left-field stands. Mendez came around to score, along with Starling Arias, on Zapata's single that made it 4-0.
English scored three runs on the back-to-back blasts by Zapata and Gonzalez in the fourth, then added four more in the sixth after two West Roxbury errors.
Mendez was almost unhittable after being staked to the early lead. The junior only gave up two singles in a complete-game shutout, striking out 13 and fanning the side in the seventh to end the game.
"We talked with him beforehand and told him to just throw first-pitch strikes, and he came through," Beyer said. "He really set the tone for us."
The only threat for West Roxbury came in the fourth.
Trailing, 5-0, with one out, James Cosgrove stroked a single and Xavier Caban reached on an error. Mendez was able to buckle down, though, getting Jesse Stanley to fly to left, and Erick Martinez - who starred for the Raiders in their semifinal victory over Latin Academy - to ground into a fielder's choice to second.
West Roxbury didn't get another runner into scoring position until the final inning. |
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 10 2009 03:05 PM
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Move over, Magnifico. Here comes ZeErika Hall, outfielder and 29th round draftee.
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Frayed Knot
Jun 10 2009 04:32 PM
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284, Jeffrey Glenn, C, Winter Haven H.S., Florida, 6-3, 185
314, Nick Santomauro, RF, Dartmouth College, New Jersey, 6-2, 205
344, Sam Honeck, 1B, Tulane U., Texas, 6-2, 215
374, James Ewing, 2B, U. Southern Miss, Texas, 6-0, 195
404, Zachary Dotson, LHP, Effingham County H.S., Georgia, 6-1, 180
434, Ronald Harris, CF, Northwood U., Texas, 6-2, 205
464, Casey Schmidt, RHP, U. San Diego, Colorado, 6-3, 205
494, Jeffrey Greene, CF, West Boca Raton Community H.S., Florida, 5-11, 180
524, Alex Gregory, OF, Radford U., Virginia, 6-2, 210
554, Cody Holliday, OF, Wilmington College, Maryland, 6-3, 210
584, Nelfi Zapata, C, English High School, Massachusetts, 6-0
614, Joseph August, OF, Stanford U., Oregon, 6-1, 205
644, Joseph Bonfe, 3B, Sierra JUCO, Minnesota, 6-4, 220
674, Zachary Von Tersch, RHP, Georgia Tech, Iowa, 6-4, 195
704, John Church, RHP, U. of West Florida, Florida, 6-3, 235
734, Michael Johnson, RHP, Concordia U., Texas, 5-10, 180
764, Josh Dunn, 3B, Sickles H.S., Florida, 6-3, 215
794, John Semel, OF, Chapman U., California, 6-0, 182
824, Kurt Steinhauer, OF, Point Loma Nazarene U., California, 6-1, 205
854, Brian Needham, RHP, Lamar U., Texas, 6-7, 180
check out the height & weight on that last guy
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Benjamin Grimm
Jun 10 2009 05:08 PM
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ZeErika?
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bmfc1
Jun 10 2009 06:41 PM
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="G-Fafif":3tbjo425]Any word on whether the Long Island kid grew up a Mets fan? If he did, I imagine the Mets would be spreading the word.
Let's Go Matz. It's a natural.[/quote:3tbjo425]
"Matz grew up in a family of Mets fans that should have the opportunity to see him play in the Minors. The Mets have affiliates in Brooklyn, Binghamton and Buffalo."
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/articl ... p&c_id=nym
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Frayed Knot
Jun 11 2009 05:47 AM
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Newsday: "This was the best thing that could have happened," said Matz, ... "It was just meant to be, a perfect fit. We're all lifelong Mets fans and this is where I want to be."
The Matz family's affection for the Mets goes way back.
"My mother was the biggest Mets fan born and raised in Brooklyn," Lori said. "She worked in a deli and would cut out and save the coupons on milk cartons. And for every 20 coupons she'd get a free Mets ticket. There would be like 500 milk cartons all over the place and she'd take the whole family and we'd sit in the upper deck. She just loved the Mets."
Or at least that's their story and they're sticking to it.
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Edgy DC
Jun 11 2009 07:30 AM
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I don't know. You must know what you're talking about if your story includes clipping Dairylea coupons.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 11 2009 07:35 AM
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The wording of these descriptions make me kinda skeptical.
His family are Met fans. His mom is a Mets fan.
What about the kid? I'm concerned we're gonna find some Jeter t-shirts at the bottom of this kid's drawer.
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Nymr83
Jun 11 2009 07:41 AM
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| ]854, Brian Needham, RHP, Lamar U., Texas, 6-7, 180
check out the height & weight on that last guy |
i'm not too suprised, I was probably about 180-190 when i was a junior or senior in high school and he's only got two inches on me.
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Edgy DC
Jun 11 2009 07:54 AM
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The guy is a college pitcher.
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Frayed Knot
Jun 11 2009 07:54 AM
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Nothing unusual about skinny teenagers (I was one myself) but that's super-skinny especially for an athlete and this dude's a college junior so presumably about 21 already.
Shit, even I put on about 35 pounds (growth, not excess) between HS junior & college junior and that was just on a 6-foot frame.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 11 2009 08:01 AM
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Brian "The Needle" Needham. One of three Lamar U pitchers se;lected in the draft this year. He's a college reliever and could come quick, youneverknow. Someone should adopt this young man.
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Edgy DC
Jun 11 2009 08:06 AM
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Doesn't look like he's that desperate to grow into his uniform.
<img src="http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/lama/sports/m-basebl/auto_action/2856686.jpeg">
Growing into those ears may be a seperate challenge.
<img src="http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/lama/sports/m-basebl/auto_headshot/2769228.jpeg">
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Edgy DC
Jun 11 2009 08:10 AM
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Personal: Brian Christopher Needham was born <a href="http://www.ultimatemets.com/gamedetail.php?gameno=3936" target="_blank">7/21/86</a> in Houston, Texas ... Parents are Vernon and Cindy Needham ... Major is General Studies ... Hobbies are golf and fishing.
He's almost 23!
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Benjamin Grimm
Jun 11 2009 08:15 AM
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Golf and fishing??? What kind of hobby is that for an athlete?
Born in Houston in 1986? Something about that city and that year, together, rings a bell...
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Nymr83
Jun 11 2009 08:37 AM
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| ]The guy is a college pitcher. |
oh. whoops. yeah i guess its time to gain weight
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Swan Swan H
Jun 11 2009 08:51 AM
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Vernon Needham from Houston, TX. I can almost see the belt buckle from here.
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HahnSolo
Jun 11 2009 08:55 AM
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| ="Edgy DC"]Personal: Brian Christopher Needham was born <a href="http://www.ultimatemets.com/gamedetail.php?gameno=3936" target="_blank">7/21/86</a> in Houston, Texas ... Parents are Vernon and Cindy Needham ... Major is General Studies ... Hobbies are golf and fishing.
He's almost 23! |
Born just one day after the Mets left Houston with a 9-8 extra inning loss and just one day before the Orosco/McDowell/Knight v. Davis fight game in Cincinnati. He was destined to be a Met.
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G-Fafif
Jun 11 2009 09:35 AM
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| ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]The wording of these descriptions make me kinda skeptical.
His family are Met fans. His mom is a Mets fan. |
Actually, if I'm reading [url=http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmatz1112865460jun10,0,3494158.story]the Newsday article[/url] correctly, his mom's mom was the Mets fan. So we're getting generations removed now (which makes the Mets seem like an old franchise, don't it?)
| ]What about the kid? I'm concerned we're gonna find some Jeter t-shirts at the bottom of this kid's drawer. |
Agreed. Also, Neal Heaton, referenced in the article as a former Mets first-round pick, blew off the Mets and, I recall, was kind of an MFY dick about it.
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Frayed Knot
Jun 11 2009 09:53 AM
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| ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Brian "The Needle" Needham. One of three Lamar U pitchers selected in the draft this year. Someone should adopt this young man.
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Or at least feed him.
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Frayed Knot
Jun 11 2009 11:07 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 11 2009 02:16 PM
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944, Mitchell Haniger, RF, Archbishop Mitty High, California, 6-2, 180
974, T.J. Chism, LHP, La Salle U., Pennsylvania, 5-10, 190
1004, James Schroeder, 3B, Southern Arkansas U., Texas, 6-0, 210
1034, Camden Maron, C, Hicksville High, New York, 6-1, 175
1064, Wes Wrenn, RHP, The Citadel, North Carolina, 5-10, 175
1094, Lance Hoge, LHP, Kansas State U., Kansas, 5-10, 185
1124, Brandon Sage, LHP, U. South Alabama, Alabama, 6-2, 210
1154, Will Cherry, OF, Florida Southern College, Florida, 6-1, 210
1184, Taylor Whitenton, RHP, Darton College, Georgia, 6-3, 190
1214, Jerome Pena, 2B, Western Nevada CC, Arizona, 5-11, 180
1244, Travis Ozga, 1B, Florida Atlantic U., Florida, 6-2, 210
1274, Ryan Gunhouse, C, Clear Creek High, Texas, 6-2, 190
1304, Bobby Rinard, RF, Yavapai College, Indiana, 6-2, 180
1334, James Wooster, LHP, Alvin CC, Texas, 6-1, 200
1364, Jacob Johansen, RHP, Allen High, Texas, 6-6, 235
1394, John Pilkington, RHP, Oxford High, Alabama, 6-2, 195
1424, Ryan Mollica, 2B, Florida International U, Florida, 5-11, 170
1454, Joseph Mantiply, LHP, Tunstall High, Virginia, 6-5, 200
1484, Joshua Easley, RHP, Weatherford High, Texas, 6-3, 170
1514, Zachary Godley, RHP, Bamberg Ehrhardt High, South Carolina, 6-3, 219
Another Long Islander, this time a Nassau County catcher with their 34th round selection. He's a long shot to ever catch Matz in a major league game but what the hell.
Now someone needs to get cracking on the issue of whether this guy spent the late '90s sleeping in Mr. Met or Jeter PJs
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Edgy DC
Jun 11 2009 11:28 AM
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<img src="http://www.longislandastros.com/DSC01050.JPG">
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Frayed Knot
Jun 12 2009 12:18 PM
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BA's Draft Q&A:
Q: Was [Steven Matz] worth the 72nd pick by the Mets or should they have gone for a better talent with signability issues?
Aaron Fitt (BA Staff): I've got no problem with the Matz pick; he does have a lot of upside, and the consensus in the Northeast was that he was a late second- to third-round talent. Matz has run his fastball up to 94 from the left side and shown a good breaking ball at times, and there's tons of projection with him.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 12 2009 12:45 PM
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| ="Frayed Knot"]BA's Draft Q&A:
Q: Was [Steven Matz] worth the 72nd pick by the Mets or should they have gone for a better talent with signability issues?
Aaron Fitt (BA Staff): I've got no problem with the Matz pick; he does have a lot of upside, and the consensus in the Northeast was that he was a late second- to third-round talent. Matz has run his fastball up to 94 from the left side and shown a good breaking ball at times, and there's tons of projection with him. |
Somewhat comforting. But isn't the point of HAVING 'big-market' cash that we can grab the signability guys and, you know, sign them?
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Benjamin Grimm
Jun 12 2009 12:46 PM
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How many guys with signability issues make it all the way down to the 72nd pick?
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Frayed Knot
Jun 12 2009 01:08 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 12 2009 01:10 PM
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="Benjamin Grimm":3obsd76p]How many guys with signability issues make it all the way down to the 72nd pick?[/quote:3obsd76p]
The type of guy they're referring to is usually an athletic HS kid who's maybe multi-sport and still a little baseball-raw, or a guy claiming that he's destined for college but maybe could be bought out of those other dreams by waiving a huge contract in front of his face.
Sometimes those guys can be had as late as 7th or 8th rounds depending on various things although I have no idea how many are out there in a given year. But, make no mistake, those are high-risk/high-reward deals that will fail more often than not but they're also the type of deal the Mets haven't gone after and it's what gets them the reputation of being too cooperative w/Bud's "suggested" slotting for their own good.
With a late-2nd round pick like 72 it's probably still best to go after the best player on the board as they say and save those diamond in the rough guys for later on if you want to take risks. The Mets have NOT skimped on their early round picks over the years and have gone over 'slot' for guys like Pelfrey.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 12 2009 01:09 PM
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="Benjamin Grimm":1dvvnqa4]How many guys with signability issues make it all the way down to the 72nd pick?[/quote:1dvvnqa4]
A fair point-- more of a 1st-round complaint. Damien "Most" Magnifico?
Most of the guys who dropped this year-- including some a little past Metz-- are guys with other issues. (Will Wilson, who went to the Red Sox a few picks after LetsGoMetz, was capital-I intriguing with 3-4 "plus" pitches... but coming off Tommy John in 2008.)
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Frayed Knot
Jul 16 2009 09:58 PM
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Q -- Please tell me the Mets won't be too cheap to give Matz the $1.1 million he's reportedly wanted all along? You also had Magnifico as an over slot guy. Any chance he signs too?
A: Jim Callis (BA) -- I don't think the Mets would have spent their top pick on a guy they didn't plan to sign, and they know what it's going to take.
Not as confident on Magnifico if he truly wants a seven-figure bonus.
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Edgy DC
Jul 17 2009 07:52 AM
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Dartmouth <a href="http://thedartmouth.com/2009/07/17/sports/santomauro/" target="_blank">screams</a> that our 10th rounder has signed.
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Frayed Knot
Aug 06 2009 08:21 AM
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Signing deadline only 11 days away -- anyone got a 'who signed so far' update?
I know the top pick (#73) has not but I'm not sure beyond that.
It's been slow going all around for 1st rounders and such. 20 of the first 32 have NOT signed yet - same figure as it was nearly a month ago.
I don't think there's a 'waiting for Strasburg' factor since his negotiations are going to be totally out of whack compared to anyone else's. The most likely cause for the slower progress is MLB lowering their "slot recommendations" some 10% from last year and the clients are, not surprisingly, balking. Others have agreed to deals which are probably above the slots but MLB doesn't want to announce them until near deadline date for fear it will encourage others to break the ceiling too.
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Edgy DC
Aug 06 2009 08:45 AM
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="Frayed Knot":3tkyk65n]anyone got a 'who signed so far' update?[/quote:3tkyk65n]
Damien Magnifico has been takin' his truck out muddin'. "Git-r-done," says Damien.
<img src="http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs133.snc1/5720_135726749534_571964534_3232767_7220639_n.jpg">
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Nymr83
Aug 06 2009 12:34 PM
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| ="Frayed Knot"]
Others have agreed to deals which are probably above the slots but MLB doesn't want to announce them until near deadline date for fear it will encourage others to break the ceiling too. |
That is apparently the case, this from baseballamerica:
| ]Vanderbilt lefthander Mike Minor, the seventh overall pick, agreed to terms with the Braves on a $2.42 million bonus yesterday and is expected to officially sign today. Minor’s bonus is the highest in club history and the highest ever for a No. 7 pick.
Minor’s bonus also was $242,000 over the recommendation by the commissioner’s office, making him just the second first-rounder to receive an over-slot deal this year. The other was California high school shortstop Jiovanni Mier, who got $1,358,000 ($26,000 above slot) from the Astros at No. 21. MLB slashed its slot guidelines by 10 percent across the board this year, and Minor’s bonus equals the 2008 recommendation for the No. 7 choice.
Nineteen of the 32 first-round picks remain unsigned.
Two sources said that Minor could have signed months earlier if not for interference from MLB. Minor and the Braves agreed in principle on the $2.42 million bonus before the draft—but before Atlanta received official word that the slots were reduced. The commissioner’s office pressured the Braves not to make the above-slot deal official so they wouldn’t hurt the Reds in their attempt to sign Arizona State righthander Mike Leake, the No. 8 pick, to a below-slot bonus.
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Frayed Knot
Aug 06 2009 12:37 PM
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Yeah, I saw that soon after I wrote the above piece.
This slotting system is an unworkable joke.
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Edgy DC
Aug 06 2009 12:43 PM
Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Aug 06 2009 12:58 PM
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="Frayed Knot":18twvk25]
Others have agreed to deals which are probably above the slots but MLB doesn't want to announce them until near deadline date for fear it will encourage others to break the ceiling too.[/quote:18twvk25]
I'd figure the agents should have no such compunction.
Maybe that's why my boy Damien is being coy. If he's part of that game, he's missing playing time.
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Frayed Knot
Aug 06 2009 12:54 PM
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I think it's more a case like the Atlanta one above; club decides it's willing to give the kid the above-slot figure or the old-slot figure but doesn't really say 'Yes' to the client at MLB's request until much closer to the deadline for fear of starting an above-slot avalanche.
Under that scenario, agent can't really claim he has a deal.
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Nymr83
Aug 06 2009 02:07 PM
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I don't know about this particular player, but if you have a guy, high school or college, who has already thrown a bunch of innings in 2009 you'd probably rather wait until the deadline to sign him so as to limit his 2009 minor league innings, which is probably an easier to swallow option for all parties than shutting the guy down before any potential minor league playoffs or penant races.
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Frayed Knot
Aug 06 2009 02:54 PM
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Clubs used to use that ploy a lot when they had 51 weeks to sign a guy; the Mets, for instance, didn't sign either Humber or Pelfrey until the following January. But with the deadline now in mid-August there's virtually no difference whether you announce a deal in early July or 4-to-5 weeks later. Teams mostly just want to get a guy signed so they can get him into their 'program' and monitor his workouts, etc. They can still limit his innings by stashing him in an instructional league if they think he threw too much already.
Besides, this delay sounds like it was totally the product of Bud and his boys trying to artificially lower bonus demands even as they're all too happy to take the bigger bucks associated with televising and expanding the draft's profile.
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Frayed Knot
Aug 14 2009 10:16 AM
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BA lists the players still unsigned from the top ten rounds. Included are NYM draftees:
- Steven Matz; LHP (2nd round - #72 overall) along with a comment (also seen elsewhere) that he "may get seven-figure bonus"
- Damien Magnifico, RHP (5th round - #164) - "May get over-slot bonus"
- David Buchanan, RHP (6th round - #194) - "May get over-slot bonus"
- Jeff Glenn, C (9th round - #284) - "May get over-slot bonus"
A report repeated yesterday in several places had the Mets optimistic of signing Matz. I have no idea on the odds of the others signing or if there's anything in particular which makes them worthy of getting an "over-slot" bonus, but there you are.
Deadline is midnight Monday/Tuesday
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Edgy DC
Aug 17 2009 08:20 AM
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Washington and Stephen Strasburg taking it to the wire.
Hey, Damien, get in the fold.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 17 2009 08:27 AM
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I don't know how much of this is the Mets being too dutiful and too persnickety or how much is the prospects being Dooshbags LOL!!1 but it just doesn't look for the Mets to have such a lousy draft position and farm-system reputation then go whiff on 50% of their top 8 picks.
It. Just. Doesn't. Look. Good.
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Edgy DC
Aug 17 2009 08:32 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 17 2009 09:29 AM
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Wouldn't it be great if they exploded everything and signed all four for greater than the "recommended"* bonus?
* Read as "unethically coersed."
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Nymr83
Aug 17 2009 09:27 AM
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it would be great if they signed their guys for not more than the organization feels they are worth, whether thats more, or less, than selig reccommends.
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Frayed Knot
Aug 17 2009 09:08 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 17 2009 09:11 PM
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No word yet on Matz or on the other Top-10 unsigned picks, but:
The Mets have signed 13th-round pick Zach Dotson for $500,000.
A lefthander from Effingham County High (Springfield, Ga.), Dotson has the potential for three solid-or-better pitches. He had committed to Georgia.
That 'half-mil' price tag has to be significantly over "slot" for whatever that's worth.
Rumor had it that he might go to Japan to play if he didn't get his price but he changed his mind when he realized that he'd have to change his name to Nissan
In other team news, the #3 overall pick Donovan Tate signed w/SD, leaving 11 1st round picks who have yet to sign.
It's going to be a busy hour.
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Edgy DC
Aug 17 2009 09:11 PM
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The 'Dogs were totally counting on him.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 18 2009 05:04 AM
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As per MLBTR/Keith Law, [url=http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/08/miscellaneous-draft-pick-signings.html:2ygd18ie]Matz is in the fold[/url:2ygd18ie], for $895K (~$400K above slot).
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Edgy DC
Aug 18 2009 05:15 AM
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The Nats reel in Strasburg minutes before the deadline.
No news from Damien.
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Frayed Knot
Aug 18 2009 06:50 AM
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9th round pick Glenn also signed - haven't heard one way or the other on 5th & 6th round picks Magnifico & Buchanan.
If they do not sign then those become lost picks. The compensatory pick in next year's draft for failing to sign a player is only for the first 3 rounds.
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Edgy DC
Aug 18 2009 07:39 AM
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Any word on Casey Schmidt?
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Frayed Knot
Aug 18 2009 01:27 PM
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No Magnifico, no Buchanan, no Schmidt - although those are the only ones of the top 30 who did not sign according to [url=http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/2009xteam.php?team=1013:3s3m5yfo]this list[/url:3s3m5yfo] which is supposedly up to date.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 18 2009 01:47 PM
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="Frayed Knot":2ltkj3bh]No Magnifico, no Buchanan, no Schmidt - although those are the only ones of the top 30 who did not sign according to [url=http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/2009xteam.php?team=1013:2ltkj3bh]this list[/url:2ltkj3bh] which is supposedly up to date.[/quote:2ltkj3bh]
Not signing a 5th and 6th round pick when you lack a first-rounder to begin with is problematic.
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Farmer Ted
Aug 18 2009 03:38 PM
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John Manuel, Baseball America, tags the Mets as draft losers and cheap ass bastids.
New York Mets: While the crosstown Yankees spend money like nobody's business in the draft, the Mets toe the line. Sure, they paid top pick Steve Matz an above-slot bonus, as he got $895,000, almost $400,000 more than the recommended slot. That's a Mets rarity, and with no first-rounder (lost for signing free agent Francisco Rodriguez), Matz basically got a first-round bonus. The Mets failed to sign their fifth- and sixth-rounders, and only had two players -- Matz and 13th-round pick Zach Dotson, a Georgia prep lefty signed for $500,000 -- who signed for as much as the Yankees gave their 44th-round pick. No large-revenue team uses its money less in the draft than the Mets.
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Edgy DC
Aug 18 2009 08:01 PM
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Eh, three guys.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 18 2009 08:53 PM
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="Edgy DC":12ejgzl9]Eh, three guys.[/quote:12ejgzl9]
Just doesn't look good. and shame on them for being such willing participants in a scheme to cheat employees of all they might earn.
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Edgy DC
Aug 18 2009 09:09 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 18 2009 09:26 PM
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Well, sure, but then same on everybody who participates in drafts, which includes every major professional team in America.
I'm guessing three guys is about par for the course. Not that I aspire to par, but there are real budgets for these guys based on risk/reward calculatons, and when only one in 10 pans out, they have to consider that. I just hope that any money that doesn't get spent in the draft goes into the foreign free agent market.
Double checking, last year's misses look like Jamie Bruno (round 15), Evan LeBlanc (23), Michael Giuffre (round 29), Mark Grbavac (32), Neil Medchill (33), Tim Erickson (37), Jean-Francois Ricard (44), David Phillips (45), Brian Gump (46), Matt Bischoff (47), Tyler Baisley (48), and Kameron Brunty (50).
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Nymr83
Aug 18 2009 09:09 PM
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="Frayed Knot":131j56nt]No Magnifico, no Buchanan, no Schmidt - although those are the only ones of the top 30 who did not sign according to [url=http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/2009xteam.php?team=1013:131j56nt]this list[/url:131j56nt] which is supposedly up to date.[/quote:131j56nt]
alot of the lower rounders didnt sign though i'm guessing thats pretty standard without looking at other organizations, these guys are mostly high schoolers and likely have college scholarships that are a better bet than 35th round money
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Frayed Knot
Aug 18 2009 10:08 PM
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From what I read the pct of picks overall from the first 10 rounds who signed this year was virtually identical to last year's pct.
Also, Selig's 10% reduction in slotting targets from last year resulted in less than a 1% reduction in actual bonuses.
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metirish
Aug 19 2009 07:57 AM
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Mets are cheap says this guy..
Mets Are Thrifty When It Comes to Draft
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By DAVID WALDSTEIN
Published: August 18, 2009
The Mets have the second-highest payroll in Major League Baseball, so the team clearly has a commitment to spend money on its players. But by some calculations, the Mets are cheapest team in baseball when it comes to the draft.
According to calculations by Baseball America, the Mets spent the least of all 30 teams in the top 10 rounds of the draft in June. The Mets signed seven of their nine picks in the first 10 rounds for a total of $1,864,300. The Yankees signed eight of their nine picks for a total of $4,760,000.
Jim Callis, Baseball America’s executive editor and an expert on the draft, says the Mets have been less than bold in the draft ever since they signed Mike Pelfrey for $5.3 million with a $3.5 million signing bonus in 2005.
“To say they are not aggressive in the draft isn’t adequate,” Callis said. “They are nothing close to aggressive.”
The Mets did not have a first-round pick this year, which lowered the amount they would spend. But they also did not sign their fifth- or sixth-round picks, which lowers their overall total, but also suggests they were not willing to spend as freely on those picks.
The Mets are also said to be one of the teams that follow baseball’s recommendations to overdraft, or to take a player earlier than he was expected to be selected, then pay him less than the player who was originally expected to be taken at that spot. But Mets General Manager Omar Minaya said the team’s strategy was simply to take the best player available.
“We still draft the best talent,” he said. “We believe in drafting for the best talent.”
The Mets signed their second-round pick, Steven Matz, the 72nd selection, for $895,000, almost $400,000 more than baseball recommended for that slot. But since Pelfrey, the Mets have continued to lag behind other teams in their draft spending. Callis said the Mets, along with the Houston Astros and the Chicago White Sox, tend to fall most in line with baseball’s slotting recommendations.
Jack Curry contributed reporting.
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Nymr83
Aug 19 2009 08:54 AM
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| ]According to calculations by Baseball America, the Mets spent the least of all 30 teams in the top 10 rounds of the draft in June |
the mets didnt have a first round pick, and thats where over 50% of some teams' draft money goes, how bout making a calculation that factors that in before you starting writing 'freddy coupon' articles?
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Edgy DC
Aug 19 2009 08:57 AM
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Thank you.
A fake control group doesn't work any better than no control group.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 19 2009 10:58 AM
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Well, it's three guys the team missed signing... but that three includes two of the top four picks.
Matz seems like a good get. But it's notable for its being an exception-- in many quarters, the story isn't all about Matz, so much as it is that the Mets paid someone over slot. They didn't go above recommendation for a single other draftee in the early rounds. (There are some teams you could say this for... but they're rapidly decreasing in number, and are all dealing with much tighter budgets.)
I'm not a "Coupons" screamer by any means... but I will agree that the organization's decision-making seems strange. In terms of developing/retaining talent, a few hundred thousand dollars here goes further than the same expenditure does at any other point in a player's career; just like profit from good-egg credit customers makes the risk of giving cards to deadbeats, when development is handled smoothly, those prospects that pay out more than make up for the "deadbeat" washouts. And yet, while the purse seems more or less wide open (to a point) for free-agent acquisitions and short-term needs, there's seems an apparent effort to hold costs down-- whether for actual monetary reasons, remaining in "good standing" with the MLB folk, or another reason to which we're not privy-- where it means more.
Not to get all WFAN here, but this is the second-richest franchise in baseball; this team should almost NEVER have an unsigned player. (That-- along with the ability to take on salary in trades-- is the real gift of deep pockets.)
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 19 2009 11:07 AM
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To me the thing is if they didn't go around buying the relief pitcher with the most saves every other year they could easily afford to run a draft or two with the goal of really loading up and who knows, in a few years have developed a closer of their own.
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Nymr83
Aug 19 2009 11:18 AM
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I don't fault the Mets for throwing money at Rodriguez, the bullpen was the #1 reason the Mets weren't in the postseason last year. They could have used a bat and they could have used a better starter than Perez, but the bullpen had to be the top concern... The Mets were 23rd in bullpen ERA last year while being 7th in starters ERA and 8th in runs scored (behind only 1 NL team)
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 19 2009 11:32 AM
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Fair enough. One could argue that the bullpen had to be the chief concern... but not necessarily the number one cost-center. You can find effective relievers for relatively low cost. Big-bat OFs and starters? Not so.
One could also argue that if your closer's one of your most expensive players, your team's got an architecture problem.
(This is leaving aside the let's-address-last-year's-problem-exclusively-because-nothing-else-will-go approach to roster building-- or, rather, patching-- that seems to have pervad-- you know what? I won't get started.)
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 19 2009 11:40 AM
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="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":36mzc1yn]Fair enough. One could argue that the bullpen had to be the chief concern... but not necessarily the number one cost-center. You can find effective relievers for relatively low cost. Big-bat OFs and starters? Not so.
One could also argue that if your closer's one of your most expensive players, your team's got an architecture problem.
(This is leaving aside the let's-address-last-year's-problem-exclusively-because-nothing-else-will-go approach to roster building-- or, rather, patching-- that seems to have pervad-- you know what? I won't get started.)[/quote:36mzc1yn]
Egg-zactly my problem with the Mets. And Shirley going out and buying not one but two Big-Name Closers was as much to make a show of their acknowledging the relief problem as it was to address it.
Oh by the way the strategy hasn't worked all that great either.
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Gwreck
Aug 19 2009 11:55 AM
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Our bullpen ERA is 4th best in the league and Rodriguez hasn't exactly been terrible. (Granted we do have a lot of quality innings from carryovers Feliciano and Stokes).
---
The Mets also have an advantage -- for the next couple of years -- in that they can pay a bit more for a closer if they want given that two of the team's best players aren't earning as much (Reyes and Wright).
Our top 10 salaries:
1. Santana
2. Beltran
3. Delgado
4. Perez
5. Rodriguez
6. Wright
7. Castillo
8. Reyes
9. Putz
10. Schneider
That's 6 of the 8 starting position players, plus two starters and two relievers. That doesn't seem like that flawed an architechture.
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Nymr83
Aug 19 2009 12:05 PM
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| ]Fair enough. One could argue that the bullpen had to be the chief concern... but not necessarily the number one cost-center. You can find effective relievers for relatively low cost. Big-bat OFs and starters? Not so |
reliever contracts have been pretty absurd, remember what the Orioles gave Bradford? you're not getting proven relief pitching in free agency cheap anymore than you are other positions.
| ]Egg-zactly my problem with the Mets. And Shirley going out and buying not one but two Big-Name Closers was as much to make a show of their acknowledging the relief problem as it was to address it. |
they only bought one, Putz was a trade.. you want to say the Mariners knew something about his arm that the Mets didn't, fine, but Putz is making 5 mil this year with green and reed under a million, while Chavez pulls in 1.8, Heilman gets 1.6, and vargas and smith under a million so the trade wasn't a big payroll-increaser, not sure where you get "buying" from and Putz certainly didnt prevent the mets from spending cash elsewhere
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Edgy DC
Aug 19 2009 12:19 PM
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| ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]Well, it's three guys the team missed signing... but that three includes two of the top four picks. |
Well, sure, but the guys who you would most encourage a team to go "over slot" are the guys who come after, maybe 8-15.
| ]Matz seems like a good get. But it's notable for its being an exception-- in many quarters, the story isn't all about Matz, so much as it is that the Mets paid someone over slot. They didn't go above recommendation for a single other draftee in the early rounds. |
Yeah, but the early rounds aren't the issue --- at least not to me --- it's the guys in the later rounds who slipped there because of perceived or real bonus demands.
| ]I'm not a "Coupons" screamer by any means... but I will agree that the organization's decision-making seems strange. In terms of developing/retaining talent, a few hundred thousand dollars here goes further than the same expenditure does at any other point in a player's career; just like profit from good-egg credit customers makes the risk of giving cards to deadbeats, when development is handled smoothly, those prospects that pay out more than make up for the "deadbeat" washouts. |
I'm disagreeing here. A few hundred thou pays off from time to time, but goes nowhere often enough. You have to be smart and broad in your thinking.
| ]And yet, while the purse seems more or less wide open (to a point) for free-agent acquisitions and short-term needs, there's seems an apparent effort to hold costs down-- whether for actual monetary reasons, remaining in "good standing" with the MLB folk, or another reason to which we're not privy-- where it means more. |
There's also the foreign free-agent market, where that money can and often is re-invested, and the Mets might well have been measuring their dollars for these draftees against what that money could buy them elsewhere among players not using college for leverage.
| ]Not to get all WFAN here, but this is the second-richest franchise in baseball; this team should almost NEVER have an unsigned player. (That-- along with the ability to take on salary in trades-- is the real gift of deep pockets.) |
Eh, all teams work within budgets. And as soon as it became obvious that the team made it a personal point that no player should go unsigned, Scott Boras or somebody else would leverage that issue by advising his players that the Mets will always cough up more, because it's their policy to leave nobody on the field.
Sometimes, I guess, you get players to accede by a demonstrated willingness to walk away from other players.
It works that way with women, I think.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Aug 19 2009 12:39 PM
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="Gwreck":y5vp6ggd]Our bullpen ERA is 4th best in the league and Rodriguez hasn't exactly been terrible. (Granted we do have a lot of quality innings from carryovers Feliciano and Stokes).[/quote:y5vp6ggd]
That's pretty much what I'm saying. This is without Wagner's $$ and including Putz' "contributions" -- it's come from guys like Feliciano and Stokes who improved and/or basically lucked into staying with the team, and dirt cheapies like Parnell, Dessens, Misch... etc.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 19 2009 01:38 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 19 2009 02:41 PM
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="Nymr83":2ilmsci4]
reliever contracts have been pretty absurd, remember what the Orioles gave Bradford? you're not getting proven relief pitching in free agency cheap anymore than you are other positions.[/quote:2ilmsci4]
And the pens of many other contenders-- both of last year's WS participants, for instance-- were built on Rule Vers, others' waiver wires, and relatively cheap trade. Getting caught up in other people's buying runs doesn't make for smart FA shopping.
There's looking at your usage of the guys that are already there, and whether that decision-making left something to be desired. There's buying low on previous good producers who had a bad year, owing to the vagaries of misuse/nagging injuries/a couple of blowups skewing things statistically (the Putz trade looked like a decent one early on for this reason). Spending gobs of FA money on bullpen folk should be the exclusive province of teams that DON'T have any other needs. Most objective, reasonable evaluators of this team saw at least two-- corner OF and SP.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 19 2009 01:47 PM
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| ="Gwreck"]Our bullpen ERA is 4th best in the league and Rodriguez hasn't exactly been terrible. (Granted we do have a lot of quality innings from carryovers Feliciano and Stokes).
---
The Mets also have an advantage -- for the next couple of years -- in that they can pay a bit more for a closer if they want given that two of the team's best players aren't earning as much (Reyes and Wright).
Our top 10 salaries:
1. Santana
2. Beltran
3. Delgado
4. Perez
5. Rodriguez
6. Wright
7. Castillo
8. Reyes
9. Putz
10. Schneider
That's 6 of the 8 starting position players, plus two starters and two relievers. That doesn't seem like that flawed an architechture. |
It's not the Cincinnati Reds (where Francisco Cordero has the team's highest '09 figure). But Perez and Rodriguez as two of the top 5 on a team with a $140M payroll... I'd argue against that being a good sign of the team's budget health (albeit one largely balanced out by the under-market deals Reyes* and Wright have).
I'm not arguing that Rodriguez is crap. I'm just saying that, relative to real value, you pay an EXORBITANT amount for "premium" closer performance, and tend you get much better value elsewhere.
*One could argue quite persuasively that if you felt secure about your GM job, now would be the PERFECT time to sign Reyes to an extension.
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MFS62
Aug 19 2009 01:51 PM
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Sometimes the guys who drop are highly rated prospects who teams avoid drafting because of "signability issues". Then, because they drop, the slots in which they are chosen have lower slot price tags. I'm not sure if that is a vicious cycle or a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Later
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 19 2009 02:16 PM
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="Edgy DC"] | ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]Well, it's three guys the team missed signing... but that three includes two of the top four picks. |
Well, sure, but the guys who you would most encourage a team to go "over slot" are the guys who come after, maybe 8-15. |
Meh. Depends on the guys.
="Edgy DC"] | ]Matz seems like a good get. But it's notable for its being an exception-- in many quarters, the story isn't all about Matz, so much as it is that the Mets paid someone over slot. They didn't go above recommendation for a single other draftee in the early rounds. |
Yeah, but the early rounds aren't the issue --- at least not to me --- it's the guys in the later rounds who slipped there because of perceived or real bonus demands. |
Wasn't Capt. Magnifico one of these? Was Buchanan?
="Edgy DC"]| ]I'm not a "Coupons" screamer by any means... but I will agree that the organization's decision-making seems strange. In terms of developing/retaining talent, a few hundred thousand dollars here goes further than the same expenditure does at any other point in a player's career; just like profit from good-egg credit customers makes the risk of giving cards to deadbeats, when development is handled smoothly, those prospects that pay out more than make up for the "deadbeat" washouts. |
I'm disagreeing here. A few hundred thou pays off from time to time, but goes nowhere often enough. You have to be smart and broad in your thinking. |
You don't need to win as often as you lose-- the payoff from one winning ticket in this lottery is immense enough to offset any losses (even a middling reliever or benchwarmer developed in-house ends up saving you 1-3 million a year while he's under your control). With smarter, savvier talent eval, you're tipping the scales even more in your favor.
"Smart and broad?" Am listening. Explain? ("Spread it around"? A plea for general prudence?)
| ="Edgy DC"]There's also the foreign free-agent market, where that money can and often is re-invested, and the Mets might well have been measuring their dollars for these draftees against what that money could buy them elsewhere among players not using college for leverage. |
True. But this is virtually the only reason the Mets farm system has gotten to "pretty good, if shallow" from "good and tur'ble." (And sure, there's no college-leverage... there's only potential suitors from every organization in MLB to outbid.)
Other big-market peers-- be they MFY, Dodger or Sawx-- have made strides or maintained a competitive advantage here while getting better at acquiring and using the domestic first-year player draft. Success in one doesn't-- and shouldn't-- preclude the other for a team with so much income.
| ="Edgy DC"]Eh, all teams work within budgets. And as soon as it became obvious that the team made it a personal point that no player should go unsigned, Scott Boras or somebody else would leverage that issue by advising his players that the Mets will always cough up more, because it's their policy to leave nobody on the field. |
Yeah, I don't think you necessarily announce this. That probably would not be too prudent a negotiation tactic.
And if you're going to overpay in the millions for, oh, say Ollie Perez, you might as well overpay in the thousands for His Magnifico-ence*.
*I'll be honest-- I think a little part of me wanted him just for the muddin'.
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Edgy DC
Aug 19 2009 02:30 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 19 2009 09:02 PM
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Smart and broad. It's better to pay for a lot of somewhat talented guys than to pay for a few very talented guys. This is more true of pitching, and even more true of high school pitching. Finding a Parnell or two or nine in the later rounds is where the genius lies.
Magnifico is an entertaining prospect --- nobody thinks so more than me --- but a hard-throwin' high school pitcher who can't or won't spell correctly and has a bulletproof attiude may be the place to take a pass if they're negotiating hard. And it isn't a question of a few thousand to negotiators. If you offer a million, and the prospect wants $1.05, you walk away with the full amount to spend elsewhere.
I think we agree mostly that the slotting system is stupid and the Mets should have nothing to do with it. But I think it's no stupider than the draft itself, and I'd love to have seen the Mets make an offer to Steven Strassburg and --- when reminded of the rules ---- invite the Nats and MLB to sue them.
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MFS62
Aug 19 2009 03:36 PM
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I'd bet there will be a whole bunch of lawyers lining up to take that career-making (well, at least it would get them a lot of press) case pre-bono.
Later
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 19 2009 03:52 PM
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="Edgy DC":1xxdq7nc]I think we agree mostly that the slotting system is stupid and the Mets should have nothing to do with it. But I think it's no stupider than the draft itself, and I'd love to have seen the Mets make an offer to Steven Strassburg and --- when reminded of the rules ---- invite the Nats and MLB to sue them.[/quote:1xxdq7nc]
(Immoral) apples and (inefficient) oranges, though.
The draft may be patently unfair to labor, and the whole idea is kinda without parallel-- and would be unacceptable-- in any other industry but professional sports (all in the name of competitiveness).
But while the draft may be immoral... the slotting system that's in place is simply bad, efficacy-wise. Poorly conceived, and almost as poorly executed, it doesn't do what it's supposed to.
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Edgy DC
Aug 19 2009 06:36 PM
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Oh, I think the draft is bad for everybody --- players, fans, agents, and organizations --- except owners, of course. It's about controlling costs while pretending to be about competitiveness.
And what's so great about givng a competitive edge to a team as a reward for coming in last, anyhow? True competitiveness is about pursuing victory and claiming the spoils.
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Nymr83
Aug 19 2009 06:59 PM
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| ="Edgy DC"]Oh, I think the draft is bad for everybody --- players, fans, agents, and organizations --- except owners, of course. It's about controlling costs while pretending to be about competitiveness. |
whether its a positive or negative for fans really depends on the individual fan's perspective. I'm sure the Nationals fans who just got Strasburg are pretty happy that theres a draft to give them a shot at these players. the yankee fans who envision their team signing the best prospect at every position might disagree.
as for players, it depends which players you are talking about. its bad for the amateurs in the draft but its good for the veterans because every dime not spent elsewhere is more money they can ask for, this is how the NBA/NFL ended up with drafts more restrictive than baseball's, and why MLB might end up there too.
i'm not sure about agents, but the system shouldnt be designed to care about them anyway, if whatever system is in place is good for them, fine, if its bad for them thats fine too, they shouldnt factor in the 'equation' (the system negotiated by the owners and players)
| ]And what's so great about givng a competitive edge to a team as a reward for coming in last, anyhow? |
giving the fans of losing teams a reason to show up. unlike the NBA you wont see the results right away, but i'll bet the Nationals have higher attendance on the days Strasburg pitches, and the owners and players all have an interest in keeping all the franchises afloat (they're really just one big business, and they should organize as such like MLS does, but thats a whole different topic)
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Edgy DC
Aug 19 2009 07:53 PM
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| ="Nymr83"]whether its a positive or negative for fans really depends on the individual fan's perspective. I'm sure the Nationals fans who just got Strasburg are pretty happy that theres a draft to give them a shot at these players. the yankee fans who envision their team signing the best prospect at every position might disagree. |
The Yankees competitive disadvantage is the result another artificial and anti-competitive construct. A second artificial and anti-competitive creation which provides some (but only a small amount of) drag on this advantage is not the answer.
| ]as for players, it depends which players you are talking about. its bad for the amateurs in the draft but its good for the veterans because every dime not spent elsewhere is more money they can ask for, this is how the NBA/NFL ended up with drafts more restrictive than baseball's, and why MLB might end up there too. |
The players who should get the money should be decided by supply, demand, and the open market. Whether these be vets or rookies, I don't care.
| ]giving the fans of losing teams a reason to show up. |
They shouldn't be given anything. The team should fight their way back, and the fans should root for their team to fight their way back. And if the team can't find a way to compete --- if they can't build a team on the open market--- let the Peoria Painters join the league to try.
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Edgy DC
Aug 19 2009 09:04 PM
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="Edgy DC":313685ht]but a hard-throwin' high school pitcher who can't or won't spell correctly and has a bulletproof attiude may be the place to take a pass if they're negotiating hard.[/quote:313685ht]
Lest we forget the lesson of John Holdzkom.
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Nymr83
Aug 19 2009 09:14 PM
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| ]The players who should get the money should be decided by supply, demand, and the open market. Whether these be vets or rookies, I don't care. |
i was, quite clearly, responding only to your earlier claim that "players" are hurt by the draft, when in fact veteran players are not hurt and are likely helped by the draft.
i believe in the open market only as long as the market is truly open, once you put rules in place that benefit the employees (300k minimum salaries) its only fair that the owners get rules benefitting them too.
| ]The Yankees competitive disadvantage is the result another artificial and anti-competitive construct. A second artificial and anti-competitive creation which provides some (but only a small amount of) drag on this advantage is not the answer |
i assume you meant to say competitive advantage or else that sentence makes no sense to me, what disadvantage are the yankees at?
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Edgy DC
Aug 19 2009 09:47 PM
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| ="Nymr83"]i was, quite clearly, responding only to your earlier claim that "players" are hurt by the draft, when in fact veteran players are not hurt and are likely helped by the draft. |
I don't think I said otherwise. All veteran players were once rookies and therefore screwed by the system. All players who never achieve veteran status were once rookies and screwed by the system.
| ="Nymr83"]i believe in the open market only as long as the market is truly open, once you put rules in place that benefit the employees (300k minimum salaries) its only fair that the owners get rules benefitting them too. |
Nobody "put" such a rule in place. It was won at the bargaining table by collectively bargaining at great risk against a longtime hugely exploitative system that held players as chattel --- a system with large vestiges still in place today. (Question: has baseball ever been so relatively profitable for owners as it has been during these last decades where players have won increasing amounts of autonomy?)
| ]i assume you meant to say competitive advantage or else that sentence makes no sense to me, what disadvantage are the yankees at? |
Yes, that's a mistake. Sorry.
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Nymr83
Aug 19 2009 11:39 PM
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| ]It was won at the bargaining table by collectively bargaining |
the current draft structure is a result of the same process, as of a 1992 arbitration ruling that the draft was subject to collective bargaining after the union brought a grievance to proposed unilateral changes by the owners.
there is certainly nothing unusual about a union 'negotiating' on behalf of the potential future (as of yet unidentified) employees of the company with which that union negotiates. if you go to work for con edison, your contract has already been determined by a negotuation between management and a union to which you did not at the time belong.
i assume the yankee advantage to which you are refferring is the inability of teams to move about freely. i'd certainly do away with that, because the wrath of fans (declining revenues from fans who dont care about the traveling mercenary show) would imo prevent excessive moving after an initial wave of moves. the only proviso i'd want is that a team can't break a lease with a state/city if their stadium was publicly financed.
and eliminating that rule would likely help create a more even playing field, especially if you allowed the owners to demand payments NOT to move from the better-situated owners.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 19 2009 11:54 PM
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From a [url=http://www.newsday.com/columnists/other-columnists/bellmore-s-lichtman-shows-his-baseball-knowledge-through-uzr-1.1379725]Davidoff Newsday article[/url]-- if true, it doesn't help my vague heartburn-y feeling.
| ]In Buchanan's case, the Mets knew before drafting him that the young man wanted a $200,000 signing bonus, not outrageous (albeit over slot). Yet by the time they bid $185,000 this past week, Buchanan already had moved into his residence at Georgia State, secured loans and grants and taken a team photo. At that point, he wasn't going to accept an offer he probably would have taken in July. |
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Nymr83
Aug 19 2009 11:58 PM
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Now that is pretty dumb of the Mets, to not make an offer until the guy is already set in college. I know negotiating is a process but why not make him your best offer the day before he signs his loan papers and makes his admission to Georgia final?
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Frayed Knot
Aug 20 2009 06:59 AM
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| ] ... the current draft structure is a result of the same process, as of a 1992 arbitration ruling that the draft was subject to collective bargaining after the union brought a grievance to proposed unilateral changes by the owners.
there is certainly nothing unusual about a union 'negotiating' on behalf of the potential future (as of yet unidentified) employees of the company with which that union negotiates. if you go to work for con edison, your contract has already been determined by a negotuation between management and a union to which you did not at the time belong. |
The main reason the draft is subject to collective bargaining is that the FA compensation system incorporates the movement of some of those draft picks as part of the "price" of a player's FAgency. IOW, as long as it affects the players their union has a right to a say in how it's conducted.
That's why there's at least some sentiment among owners to do away with draft pick compensation and thereby de-link the draft from the CBA. There actually was an agreement to do just that (I think it was two CBAs ago) but when it came down to finalizing it the two sides realized they couldn't agree on exactly what they thought they had agreed to and so the issue was left status quo.
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Edgy DC
Aug 20 2009 07:46 AM
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The draft has been changed by negotiations at bargaining time. The draft itself is not the result of negotiations or arbitration decisions emanating from negotiations. It was imposed under a very different regime to protect owners from the bonuses they were giving out.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Aug 20 2009 10:44 AM
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Somewhat coincidentally, [url=http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/abolish-the-draft]Dave Cameron thought out loud[/url]on Fangraphs this morning about the subject.
| ]Abolish the draft, set budgets for teams to sign players via a pool of money pulled from revenue sharing, and open the bidding for any player not under contract to a professional team each summer. |
It's not exactly a free market, but it's a lot freer than the current system, decreases the amount of revenue-sharing money going directly into owners' pockets, lets market forces dictate deals, keeps costs down and, intriguingly, it opens the door to more locally-drawn local nines (and dozens of other intriguing strategies). That said, it fosters-- among other things-- an even-more drastic punishment of winning ballclubs than the reverse-standing-order draft.
Thoughts?
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Edgy DC
Aug 20 2009 11:05 AM
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Abolish the welfare system of revenue sharing, and instead divy up revenues at the gate.
Give each a opponent a cut --- say, 35% --- from the day's stadium earnings, concessions, and broadcast revenues. I'd even make it 40% if they win and 30% if they lose, putting a purse on each game.
Than let teams go nuts in pursuit of all the amateur booty they want.
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Nymr83
Aug 20 2009 11:31 AM
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="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]Somewhat coincidentally, [url=http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/abolish-the-draft]Dave Cameron thought out loud[/url]on Fangraphs this morning about the subject.
| ]Abolish the draft, set budgets for teams to sign players via a pool of money pulled from revenue sharing, and open the bidding for any player not under contract to a professional team each summer. |
It's not exactly a free market, but it's a lot freer than the current system, decreases the amount of revenue-sharing money going directly into owners' pockets, lets market forces dictate deals, keeps costs down and, intriguingly, it opens the door to more locally-drawn local nines (and dozens of other intriguing strategies). That said, it fosters-- among other things-- an even-more drastic punishment of winning ballclubs than the reverse-standing-order draft.
Thoughts? |
so he's advocating the MLS model? (which they then broke anyway)
| ="edgy"]Abolish the welfare system of revenue sharing, and instead divy up revenues at the gate.
Give each a opponent a cut --- say, 35% --- from the day's stadium earnings, concessions, and broadcast revenues. I'd even make it 40% if they win and 30% if they lose, putting a purse on each game.
Than let teams go nuts in pursuit of all the amateur booty they want. |
i don't see how thats any different from the current system, you're counting the money up differently but its still the same result, the rich teams pay the poor teams. they're already splitting the gate revenue by the way.
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Edgy DC
Aug 20 2009 11:42 AM
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| ="Nymr83"]i don't see how thats any different from the current system, |
You really don't? They're very different.
| ]you're counting the money up differently but its still the same result, the rich teams pay the poor teams. |
Yeah, it's a different model, and it's silly to summarize them all as "the rich teams pay the poor teams.
| ]they're already splitting the gate revenue by the way. |
Yes, I know. They pool and re-distrubute.
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