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="Nymr83":w21z4rsg]... I'd like to know who these idiot coaches were who thought this was acceptable behavior.[/quote:w21z4rsg]
I think they'd call it 'job security'.
Billy would undoubtedly refer to it as 'loyalty'.
Certain law enforcement personnel, on the other hand, might see it as 'abetting'.
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metirish
Jun 02 2009 07:45 AM
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It doesn't mean these were the guys there as Martin's muscle but these were his coaches in 1982
Art Fowler, Charlie Metro, Clete Boyer, George Mitterwald, Jackie S.Moore, Lee Walls
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Edgy DC
Jun 02 2009 07:47 AM
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What I took from that story is a lot exclamation points.
Yeah, I'm sure coaches under a bully like that live in the knowledge that to defy the manager is to guarantee you never eat another big league meal again.
Wayne Hagin is telling (!) the story (!) but I don't see him standing up for the player either. I'm sure he lived under the same reality.
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metirish
Jun 02 2009 07:56 AM
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From what I am reading Martin was the GM of the A's that season too. Sounds like a fun place to work.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 02 2009 08:05 AM
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That's Wayne all right. Superfluous descriptions of things other than the point, but the point, eventually.
Yes, Rickey sounds like a good egg and Martin a douchebag.
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Edgy DC
Jun 02 2009 08:22 AM
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This is who I was able to find from the 1982 coaching staff.
Clete Boyer
Art Fowler
Charlie Metro
George Mitterwald
Lee Walls
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John Cougar Lunchbucket
Jun 02 2009 08:24 AM
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Were you able to accomplish that by reading this thread?
Lee Walls -- Met expansion draft pick, traded before the season began.
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Edgy DC
Jun 02 2009 08:33 AM
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I went looking before the post appeared.
I'm like a punching bag.
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metirish
Jun 02 2009 08:47 AM
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It actually wasn't as easy as I thought to find his coaching staff. Didn't baseball reference list the entire coaching staff at one time? , I couldn't find anything there about the A's 1982 staff except the manager.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Jun 02 2009 09:42 AM
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| ="Frayed Knot"]Mostly what I take out of that story is further confirmation that Billy Martin was an ass (and a chicken-shit one at that) and that his beloved status as a Yanqui icon is a yet another stain on their sordid history. |
Over the years, I've started to think of Billy Martin-- smart bordering on devious, hypercompetitive, paranoid, alternately hateful and pathetic-- as sort of a living Dorian Gray portrait of Mantle, the archetypal MFY Legend. The hagiography and the underlying dirtiness are pretty inextricably linked, no?
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TheOldMole
Jun 02 2009 10:11 AM
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These guys were professional athletes, Hagin was not. I don't blame him for not stepping into the middle of this one.
Wonderful story about Ricky, nice story about Lon and Wayne.
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SteveJRogers
Jun 02 2009 10:21 AM
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="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]| ="Frayed Knot"]Mostly what I take out of that story is further confirmation that Billy Martin was an ass (and a chicken-shit one at that) and that his beloved status as a Yanqui icon is a yet another stain on their sordid history. |
Over the years, I've started to think of Billy Martin-- smart bordering on devious, hypercompetitive, paranoid, alternately hateful and pathetic-- as sort of a living Dorian Gray portrait of Mantle, the archetypal MFY Legend. The hagiography and the underlying dirtiness are pretty inextricably linked, no? |
The thing about Martin, like Pete Rose, he gets plently of support amongst fanbases soley because of his scrappy "do anything to win" persona. When outside of the game, that type of personality is looked down upon in a "come on, how old are you?" kind of way.
After Martin's death, the Yankees produced a video about his life which included interviews with various MFYL Douchebags, presumably in bars around MFYS. Anyway, one of these douches, with bandages covering his eye, mentions that he loved Martin because he got into lots of fights, and used the fact that he, the douche, was a bar room brawler himself.
Somehow that demographic in fandom, no matter what the actual size, always seems to be the most vocal. Especially when you consider Martin described himself as "I may not have been the greatest Yankee, but I sure am the proudest." In many ways, that speaks volumes more about Martin's ego than his dedication to the "pinstripes."
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DocTee
Jun 02 2009 03:30 PM
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Another view of Billy and Rickey (courtesy SF Chronicle, 31 May)
In 30 years as the A's traveling secretary, Mickey Morabito has traveled roughly 1.65 million miles. If you add the four years before that, when he was the Yankees' publicist, he's flown nearly 1.8 million miles.
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To put that in perspective, he has flown enough miles to circumnavigate the egos of George Steinbrenner, Billy Martin and Reggie Jackson.
He has met the Queen of England, President George H.W. Bush and Frank Sinatra. Of the three, he was most in awe of Sinatra. He has worked for two of the most controversial owners in baseball history, Steinbrenner and Charlie Finley. He has worked with two highly successful managers, Billy Martin and Tony La Russa, and been to six World Series.
"Tony would always say the season is a marathon," Morabito said. "He didn't want the players to be too high or too down. That wasn't Billy's way at all. Every game was the seventh game of the World Series."
While making all the A's travel arrangements, Morabito has had to deal with numerous transportation problems, even though the A's and other teams stopped flying commercial in the mid-'80s. On one scary occasion, the A's plane had a near-miss while descending into Oakland just as another plane was climbing.
A trusted confidante
Along the way, he has become a friend and confidante of managers, coaches and players.
Morabito insists that the tempestuous Martin saved the A's franchise in Oakland. He argues that La Russa's 1988-90 A's should have been considered nearly on a par with Cincinnati's "Big Red Machine" of the 1970s as one of the greatest teams of all time.
It was Martin who lured Morabito, now 58, to the A's in 1980. The two had become close during Martin's first two (of five) stints as the Yankees' manager.
That first year in Oakland, he said, was one of the most enjoyable of the 30. The previous A's team had lost 108 games under manager Jim Marshall, but Martin, who was born and raised in Berkeley, pushed them to 83-79 and second place.
"You could say that Billy single-handedly saved this franchise," Morabito said.
That year, Finley agreed to sell the team to Marvin Davis, who was going to move the team to Denver. The deal fell through, and Oakland officials and business people sought local investors to buy the team, leading to the purchase by Walter Haas.
"If Billy doesn't come here in 1980 and create that excitement," Morabito said, "I don't know if the A's are even here."
That might be overstating Martin's contribution. With the Raiders' announcement that they were moving to Los Angeles, Oakland wasn't about to let the A's out of their lease.
Martin brought winning
There was no disputing the fact that Martin had brought about a radical improvement in the A's.
"What happens with a team sometimes is that losing begets losing, and people get comfortable with losing," Morabito said. "Billy was never comfortable around losing. After a game, he would slam his door shut or scream at the coaches or somebody. The guys would be frightened about this a little bit. I think Billy almost scared that team into winning."
In the strike-shortened 1981 season, the A's reached the American League Championship Series before losing to the Yankees.
Morabito, who grew up in New York, had been a Yankees batboy at age 18 and their public relations director at age 25. That meant he was thrust at a tender age into what he called the "Vicious Triangle" of Steinbrenner, Martin and slugger Reggie Jackson. In the late 1970s, they were the center of the infighting that made the Yankee clubhouse the Bronx Zoo.
"You'd come in and some days Reggie and Billy would be together and they'd be mad at George," Morabito said. "Some days Reggie and George were mad at Billy. Or Billy and George were mad at Reggie. You'd come in and say, 'Who's on what side today?' "
Martin gets mouthy
Martin was fired in 1978 after telling reporters, "They deserve each other. One's a born liar (Jackson) and the other's convicted (Steinbrenner, who had been convicted of making illegal campaign contributions to Richard Nixon in 1972)."
Steinbrenner changed his mind about Martin, and the Yankees announced he would return as skipper the following season. Without the owner's knowledge, Morabito and general manager Al Rosen arranged for a lunch meeting with Martin and the beat writers.
"Somebody asks Billy about Reggie, and Billy's had a couple of glasses of wine, so he goes off on Reggie," Morabito said. "After the luncheon, I know I'm dead."
Save by newspaper strike
Incensed over the lunch idea, Steinbrenner said, "Morabito, if you're so smart, let's see how this comes out in the papers."
Picturing banner headlines of Martin ripping Jackson and certain he was about to lose his job, Morabito found out - to his relief - that the New York papers went on strike that night. "So I survived."
Martin died in a one-car crash in Fenton, N.Y., on Christmas Day 1989. He and a friend, who was driving, had been drinking heavily. Morabito served as a pall-bearer at the funeral at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York. Thousands lined the procession route.
"It was like the president was coming through," Morabito said. "New Yorkers related to Billy. They loved him. They never related to Reggie. They liked Reggie, but if it ever came down to Billy or Reggie they were going to back Billy."
What about between Martin and Steinbrenner? "Billy was their boy."
The cast of characters
Here are Mickey Morabito's thoughts about some of the people he has worked with during his 30 years as the A's traveling secretary and his four years before that as the Yankees' publicist.
Mark McGwire - "One of the more misunderstood guys right now. Mac has always been quiet. He's getting the reputation that he's a recluse. He really isn't. This is just the way he was. He never sought publicity. It came after him."
Jose Canseco - "Totally the opposite. A guy that was loud and brash and sought the limelight. The sad thing is, he was a five-tool player but fell in love with hitting home runs and unfortunately stopped working on (the rest of) his game."
Rickey Henderson - "One of the funniest guys I've ever been around. He had an on-off switch. He could be moody and pout a little bit, but when he turned the switch on, there was nobody better."
Tony La Russa - "The most intense, most organized guy I've ever been around. Constantly thinking about the game. At a bar or restaurant, you're trying to relax, and Tony will pull out a napkin and start writing the lineup for the next day."
Bill King, the late A's broadcaster - "He could be the classiest individual out there. He loved fine dining, the ballet, the opera. On the other end, he could slop food, he was one of the more casual dressers you could see, and he had this beat-up old car. He was like two people."
Billy Martin - "Billy managed by his gut. In this day with scouting reports and videos, Billy would say, 'I know what I want to do. I don't need charts and graphs.' They'd send matchups (statistics) to him, and he'd say, 'I already know what the hitter has done against this pitcher.' "
Dennis Eckersley - "If he wasn't on your team, you hated him. You always thought he was showing you up. But as a competitor, you wanted him on your team."
Dave Stewart - "One of the nicest people I've been around in this game. Cared about everybody around him. He's one of those guys you meet in your life who, if you were down and out, you could call and he'd be there to help you out."
Thurman Munson - "We used to play hockey with a roll of tape in the Yankees' clubhouse. Once I stepped on his hand, and the other players (jokingly) said, 'You're done. You broke Thurman's hand.' When he died in the plane crash in Ohio, we had to find Billy, who was out fishing. When I told him, Billy broke down and cried like a baby."
Reggie Jackson - "A little moody. When he got on the field, he played hard. He wanted to be in the limelight. He went out in New York. He loved to see and be seen. He was an interesting guy to be around."
George Steinbrenner - "When a fireman or policeman got killed in New York City, he made sure the families had everything they needed, like money for the kids for school. With all the publicity he did want, he didn't want anybody to know about this."
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Met Hunter
Jun 02 2009 05:22 PM
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In defense of the "other" players, who knows what their motives were? Maybe they were on the bubble as far as playing time or staying on the team. Imagine the pressure of maintaining your playing performance, while working under a nut job like Billy Martin and his lush ass kissing cronies? Or maybe Brian Kingman was a dick that needed a good ass kicking.
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Number 6
Jun 03 2009 12:44 AM
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I feel like a diorama should have been included with this article.
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Frayed Knot
Jun 03 2009 06:56 AM
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| ]The thing about Martin, like Pete Rose, he gets plently of support amongst fanbases soley because of his scrappy "do anything to win" persona. When outside of the game, that type of personality is looked down upon in a "come on, how old are you?" kind of way.
After Martin's death, the Yankees produced a video about his life which included interviews with various MFYL Douchebags, presumably in bars around MFYS. Anyway, one of these douches, with bandages covering his eye, mentions that he loved Martin because he got into lots of fights, and used the fact that he, the douche, was a bar room brawler himself.
Somehow that demographic in fandom, no matter what the actual size, always seems to be the most vocal. Especially when you consider Martin described himself as "I may not have been the greatest Yankee, but I sure am the proudest." In many ways, that speaks volumes more about Martin's ego than his dedication to the "pinstripes." |
And all three paragraphs speak volumes about the folks willing to play up that sordid and borderline criminal image as traits to be admired and ones that are emblematic of their franchise.
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TheOldMole
Jun 03 2009 07:01 AM
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There's all sorts of reasons for not standing up, and I'm not saying I wouldn't have done what the other players did. But Rickey stood up.
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G-Fafif
Jun 04 2009 07:59 PM
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Exploring the Wayne Hagin 'FAN blog unearthed [url=http://www.wfan.com/print_page.php?contentId=3967535&contentType=4]this gem[/url] on a night with no game and bad news. He addressed the Cardinal fan half of it during the last trip to St. Loo. Lovely thoughts on his partner from last September 28. (Howie also has a FAN blog in which he writes almost as he spoke when he had his talk show. His story about [url=http://www.wfan.com/print_page.php?contentId=4098343&contentType=4]not getting fruit at the Steel City Diner[/url] is very cute.)
| ]I am asked by the multitudes about broadcasting in New York City as opposed to other cities where I worked and resided. The answer is, broadcasting in New York brings you face to face, mind to mind, and heart to heart with the fan. In this case, the New York Mets fans. People designate the St. Louis Cardinals fans as "baseball's greatest fans" and Keith Hernandez and I have spoken often about the Cardinals fortune of having a collegiate type of following. Mistakes are made on the field but the fans will support you as if you were a member of the family. They revel in their midwest hospitality and that transcends to the baseball diamond at Busch Stadium. It's their legacy and there was no better example of that then when the Cardinals played the Red Sox in the 2004 World Series.
Game four was played in old Busch Stadium and Derek Lowe shut down Albert Pujols and company to win the game, the World Series, and beat the demons of not winning it all over the past 86 years. What did the St. Louis crowd do? They not only clapped their hands in tribute but ushers and stadium officials actually let Red Sox fans ,who didn't have seats and had stood outside the stadium, come in and join in the history of the moment. That was St. Louis and as you know, that wouldn't have happened at Shea nor will it happen at Citi Field.
It doesn't make one city "better" than the other. They are different cities altogether and that's what makes my experience special to me. I love the heart and soul of the Mets fan. I work with a man, Howie Rose, who exemplifies the Mets fan. Howie is a true pro and it's fabulous to sit next to him broadcasting a game.
I hear his anguish in the words he utters and I feel the triumph when a big moment is reached in the game. I know this, Howie would love to "put it in the books" about a hundred times this season following a Mets win and so would the fans. I saw and felt the compassion for the closing of Shea Stadium and the memories shared there by fans. When we signed off the air after a disheartening loss (another one) to the Marlins that knocked the Mets out of the postseason, we were down to our final segment which is where we sign off and say good bye. I looked to my left and there stood Howie Rose. It is my job to finish off our post game show every day but something didn't feel right. As I looked at Howie during the commercial break, the thought occured to me, this man needs to say good bye to this stadium, not me. Howie had come to see the Mets in his youth and now drew a paycheck watching them in his prime. I will never forget how he captured the moment with his words and hid his tears until he signed off. To me, that was the definition of what a Mets fan is all about. You love your Mets but expect them to win. If they don't, there is no silence in the crowd. The Mets fan wears his or her emotions on their lungs and we hear it every day at the ball park. Would you want it any other way? |
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Vic Sage
Jun 05 2009 11:32 AM
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="SteveJRogers":1zzyzhrl] After Martin's death, the Yankees produced a video about his life which included interviews with various MFYL Douchebags, presumably in bars around MFYS. Anyway, one of these douches, with bandages covering his eye, mentions that he loved Martin because he got into lots of fights, and used the fact that he, the douche, was a bar room brawler himself.[/quote:1zzyzhrl]
If you're talking about the movie "Billy Martin: The Man. The Myth. The Manager (1990)", it wasn't produced by the Yankees. It was produced, directed and edited by my brother.
It started out as a how-to-manage video, featuring Billy. After his death, they added interviews with many of his former players, including Ricky, talking about Billy. It wasn't about his life, and it wasn't "The Bronx is Burning", nor was it ever intended to be. It was about Billy on managing, a subject he was more than qualified to talk about, and then it became a tribute to him from his former players, none of whom were under any obligation to offer such a tribute.
http://www.amazon.com/Billy-Martin-Man- ... B000R7HY4G
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