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Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

Valadius Aug 07 2009 08:15 AM

Daily News Story Omar may be looking to trade Billy Wagner, even before he returns. I think this seems like a good idea, if we can get reasonable value for him.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 07 2009 08:17 AM

It won't be before he returns, I wouldn't think. He'd probably have to pitch at least a few big league innings before a team would trade for him.

metirish Aug 07 2009 08:25 AM

I read the story , like Grim said Wagner has got to show something before a possible trade , I suppose anything for him is better than nothing.

Nymr83 Aug 07 2009 09:23 AM

[quote="metirish":3s9c8ifr]I read the story , like Grim said Wagner has got to show something before a possible trade , I suppose anything for him is better than nothing.[/quote:3s9c8ifr] would they get nothing if he leaves as a free agent? i understand that the classification of type A/B freea gents is based on the previous two years not just this year

Benjamin Grimm Aug 07 2009 09:44 AM

The speculation is that the Mets would be reluctant to offer arbitration, because if he accepts he'll get far more than they'd want to pay him.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 07 2009 10:34 AM

... and they would have to offer him arbitration in order to get the compensation. If he rejects the offer, they get the pick(s). Now, at his age/health situation, and with most teams hesitating to go multiple years on aging relievers, he's much more likely to accept the arb offer than he was, say, three years ago. (Side note... y'know that untouchable Phillie stud starter Kyle Drabek? That's how the Phils used their Wags compensation pick.) Without taking cost into consideration, I know I wouldn't mind having at least of one of Wags and Putz-- I'd love to couple them with Frankie in an Orosco-McDowell/My Two Closers-type arrangement. But you have to figure either one of them will cost 8 million (Putz' option, and a not-terrible guess at what Wags might receive in arbitration), reducing the hot-stove spending options drastically, most likely in the corner OF (again).

Frayed Knot Aug 07 2009 11:14 AM

[quote="Nymr83":3ai5yiv1][quote="metirish":3ai5yiv1]I read the story , like Grim said Wagner has got to show something before a possible trade , I suppose anything for him is better than nothing.[/quote:3ai5yiv1] would they get nothing if he leaves as a free agent? i understand that the classification of type A/B freea gents is based on the previous two years not just this year[/quote:3ai5yiv1] But those are two seasons in which he pitched somewhat over 1/2 of one and maybe 1/4 of the other. That doesn't bode well in racking up stats that'll make you a Type A. And then there's the arbitration problem.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 07 2009 11:28 AM

[quote="Frayed Knot":381espgw][quote="Nymr83":381espgw][quote="metirish":381espgw]I read the story , like Grim said Wagner has got to show something before a possible trade , I suppose anything for him is better than nothing.[/quote:381espgw] would they get nothing if he leaves as a free agent? i understand that the classification of type A/B freea gents is based on the previous two years not just this year[/quote:381espgw] But those are two seasons in which he pitched somewhat over 1/2 of one and maybe 1/4 of the other. That doesn't bode well in racking up stats that'll make you a Type A. And then there's the arbitration problem.[/quote:381espgw] He still might sneak into Type A-hood, considering the categories used by Elias in determining their rankings (which are used by MLB to determine A/B/C status). Keep in mind all the relievers in baseball, and where Wags might stand among them in each of the following... Total games (total relief appearances + 2 * total starts) IP (weighted slightly less than other categories) Wins + Saves IP/H ratio K/BB ERA [As far as we know, then, the categories should be the same as they had been. There had been talk of revising the system for relievers, at least, after folk like Juan Cruz hung around in FA limbo until a good ways into spring training; I hadn't heard anything since then, however, and I've had my figurative ear to the e-ground for a month or two. ] Figure he's good-to-superlative in the latter three, though he'll lose a bit in the top 3. Without doing the math for, oh, every reliever in baseball... I'd hazard a rougher than rough guess he's a borderline A/B.

smg58 Aug 07 2009 11:41 AM

Wagner's contract is actually a bit front-loaded, though. He's making $10.5M this year, but the team option is for $8M or a $1M buyout. Since the Mets would have to offer in arbitration a minimum of 75% of what he made this year, plus buy out the old contract first, it would be cheaper to pick up his option. So one way or the other, he's not going to arbitration.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 07 2009 12:38 PM

[quote="smg58":30utg1v4]Wagner's contract is actually a bit front-loaded, though. He's making $10.5M this year, but the team option is for $8M or a $1M buyout. Since the Mets would have to offer in arbitration a minimum of 75% of what he made this year, plus buy out the old contract first, it would be cheaper to pick up his option. So one way or the other, he's not going to arbitration.[/quote:30utg1v4] Well, yeah-- in effect, the Mets would be wagering about 800K-$1M ($1M buyout+$7-9M theoretical arb reward versus $8M option) that he'd say no to arbitration... like betting a million on a draft pick (or two, depending on how the Elias Magic 8 Ball shakes out).

metirish Aug 07 2009 12:41 PM

You know , it's possible that the Mets are back in the hunt by then and Billy Boy will be a big part of the comeback from despair tour that the Mets will commence tonight on the West coast.

attgig Aug 07 2009 02:10 PM

I think the cubs would be the most desperate out of the contenders, and be willing to give up a decent bat in the process. how about someone like Hoffpauir? could be a decent return for a 1-2 month rental for the cubs. he could play 1b/OF. obviously, not great, but i would think somewhat reasonable for wagner.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 07 2009 02:14 PM

Pleasepleaseplease trade him to the Phillies.

smg58 Aug 07 2009 02:30 PM

[quote="attgig":2mzoibb9]I think the cubs would be the most desperate out of the contenders, and be willing to give up a decent bat in the process. how about someone like Hoffpauir? could be a decent return for a 1-2 month rental for the cubs. he could play 1b/OF. obviously, not great, but i would think somewhat reasonable for wagner.[/quote:2mzoibb9] He'd have to clear waivers. Anderson Hernandez makes close to the minimum and still cleared waivers, so I suppose it's possible. There may be some prospects not yet on the 40 that the Cubs would part with and would have more long-term value, though.

attgig Aug 07 2009 03:17 PM

[quote="smg58":xvq3co3t][quote="attgig":xvq3co3t]I think the cubs would be the most desperate out of the contenders, and be willing to give up a decent bat in the process. how about someone like Hoffpauir? could be a decent return for a 1-2 month rental for the cubs. he could play 1b/OF. obviously, not great, but i would think somewhat reasonable for wagner.[/quote:xvq3co3t] He'd have to clear waivers. Anderson Hernandez makes close to the minimum and still cleared waivers, so I suppose it's possible. There may be some prospects not yet on the 40 that the Cubs would part with and would have more long-term value, though.[/quote:xvq3co3t] it's just a question of value for a old reliever just coming off of surgery, and how effective he can be for September, and if the team makes it, the post season (assuming it won't be till the end of aug that he gets traded). unless the team is having serious bullpen issues (which the cubs definitely are...to a point that they don't have a clear closer anymore), i don't know if a penant team would want to put their faith in said reliever. and yeah, with how reluctant so many teams are to take on salary, i don't know how many teams would put a claim on him, especially a bad team. and does wagner have a no trade clause? how do waivers work with no trade clauses?

Ashie62 Aug 07 2009 08:14 PM

Tampa Bay? The Mets could suck up the cash and go for Andy Sonnanstine or Upton?

PiggiesTomatoes Aug 07 2009 10:59 PM

[quote="Ashie62":2ewlrk63]Tampa Bay? The Mets could suck up the cash and go for Andy Sonnanstine or Upton?[/quote:2ewlrk63] Extremely wishful thinking. Not that I don't like the thought.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 17 2009 08:43 AM

In the event Omar is, like me, goofing off at work today, I'd like to bump this thread.

Farmer Ted Aug 17 2009 05:18 PM

Help is on the way. Hooray. New York reliever Billy Wagner also rejoined the team and is expected to be activated from the disabled list Friday.

Rockin' Doc Aug 17 2009 08:04 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 18 2009 11:01 AM

Too little, too late. I guess it doesn't hurt to see what Wagner has left in the tank, but his use will likely be more beneficial to his future than to the Mets.

cooby Aug 17 2009 09:00 PM

Billy Wagner is still a Met? I thought they toasted his muffin long ago.

Frayed Knot Aug 18 2009 08:16 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 18 2009 08:25 AM

Might be a good time to talk to the Cubs as designated closer Kevin Gregg had another rough outing last night: 1-0 lead in the 9th: GO - BB - FO - Game-tying 2B - IW - 3R-HR = Padres doing the home plate bounce-dance Gregg this year: 4-5; 4.47 ERA; 6 Blown Saves vs 23 saves; 1.3 WHiP; [u:1r7jqgzw]12[/u:1r7jqgzw] HRs

Edgy DC Aug 18 2009 08:20 AM

I'd trade 'em Rodriguez and let them really load up. If somebody blocks that, switch to Wagner.

Frayed Knot Aug 18 2009 08:25 AM

Cubs probably thought they were set in the pen with Gregg, Marmol, Heilman & Samardzjia - but none is having a good year and Samardzjia just got sent down after he got bombed in a spot start. Ahh, the fickle nature of bullpens.

Edgy DC Aug 18 2009 08:28 AM

Not that I support that kind of thing.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 21 2009 12:47 PM

Wagner still looks effective. Wagner still wants to close. Doesn't this mean that offering him arbitration is a slam-dunk? (Since he won't accept if Frankie is still here.)

Benjamin Grimm Aug 21 2009 12:51 PM

I think I'd consider taking a chance and offering arbitration. Even if he accepts, his arbitration-awarded contract wouldn't have a no-trade, right? And he's not 5-and-10 yet.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 21 2009 12:57 PM

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":12aotr5j]I think I'd consider taking a chance and offering arbitration. Even if he accepts, his arbitration-awarded contract wouldn't have a no-trade, right? And he's not 5-and-10 yet.[/quote:12aotr5j] Yep. Not only that, but the 80-percent-of-previous-year's-salary thing doesn't come into play, so odds are, that salary's coming way down due to age/injury considerations. Pretty high floor to making the offer, methinks.

Frayed Knot Aug 21 2009 12:58 PM

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":1pt79yq2]I think I'd consider taking a chance and offering arbitration. Even if he accepts, his arbitration-awarded contract wouldn't have a no-trade, right? And he's not 5-and-10 yet.[/quote:1pt79yq2] Can you decline an option and then offer arbitration? Both Wagner & Putz have large option numbers for next year - larger than any normal set-up guy should have. Obviously you can't keep both and even keeping one leaves you with two guys at the back of the bullpen making ~$20 or more.

bmfc1 Aug 21 2009 01:17 PM

Jon Heyman tweets: SI_JonHeyman#mets billy wagner has been claimed. mets have 3 days to do deal with claiming team So it's either do a deal with that team, release him, or hold onto him--we've learned that from the Sheff mess.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 21 2009 01:20 PM

I thought he had cleared waivers. (I guess I was wrong.) Sucks if there's only one team that they can trade him to. Doesn't give the Mets much leverage in getting the best possible player in return. Well, I guess it gives them some. The other team may need Billy Wagner more than the Mets need the prospect. But that other team may not need a reliever but is just trying to keep the competition from getting him.

Frayed Knot Aug 21 2009 01:22 PM

I can't see how releasing him is even a choice at this point. So it's either work out a deal with the mystery team and get a player/prospect in return, let the other team just take him and save the money, or hang onto him and deal with the other set of questions over the winter: pick-up the option, decline and offer arb, decline and don't offer arb

bmfc1 Aug 21 2009 01:23 PM

With Sheff, the Giants knew that the Mets wouldn't want to keep him for next year. With Wagner, the Mets have some leverage: the Mets can keep him on the roster, offer him arbitration, and when he declines (because he wants to close but won't with the Mets), get the compensatory draft picks when he becomes a FA.

Gwreck Aug 21 2009 01:35 PM

Do we know that we will get compensatory draft picks? Type A and Type B rankings are generally based on the statistics (as determined by Elias) for the past two years. I'm not sure it's a slam dunk that Wagner would be a Type A free agent.

G-Fafif Aug 21 2009 01:46 PM

[quote="Gwreck"]Do we know that we will get compensatory draft picks? Type A and Type B rankings are generally based on the statistics (as determined by Elias) for the past two years. I'm not sure it's a slam dunk that Wagner would be a Type A free agent.

Apparently, he's Type A (and not just in personality), according to rankings.

Nymr83 Aug 21 2009 01:58 PM

How sure are you that Wagner wouldn't accept the Mets' arbitration offer? he might wish he was closing but might also want to take the money and laugh at the Wilpons for offering.

Ashie62 Aug 21 2009 02:04 PM

I'd rather they shipped F Rodriguez at this point. he has certainly, in my eyes, been underwhelming

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 21 2009 02:04 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 21 2009 02:09 PM

[quote="Nymr83":w5rqg1z8]How sure are you that Wagner wouldn't accept the Mets' arbitration offer? he might wish he was closing but might also want to take the money and laugh at the Wilpons for offering.[/quote:w5rqg1z8] Guy just worked his way back in 11 months-- apparently with stunning success-- from TJ surgery. At age 37. Granted, I don't know him personally and you-- I presume-- don't know him personally. But, given that and knowing what we know about the guy's personality, don't you feel pretty sure that pride wins out over a paltry year of guaranteed money-- almost certain to be less than he's gotten in each of the last 7-8 years-- as his career winds down? And, holy hell-- if the team has pulled back Sheffield rather than deal him, and deals Wagner for ONE mid-level prospect instead of holding on for a month to collect two first-second round picks? Oy.

smg58 Aug 21 2009 02:06 PM

Letting Wagner go would free up nearly $3M, if you include the buyout. Don't assume the Wilpons aren't (or shouldn't be, for that matter) considering that aspect of it.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 21 2009 02:14 PM

And dealing Frankie would save several bumloads more. NO DEAL!

Edgy DC Aug 21 2009 02:30 PM

If Wagner accepts arbitration, well, I can think of worse scenarios.

bmfc1 Aug 21 2009 02:41 PM

lenno212Wagner on possibly being claimed by contender: "Might be the closest I ever get to a World Series." #mets Billy: we gave you a standing ovation last night... now STFU! You were on the Mets in '06. They got close. Maybe if your back didn't act up so often, you might have gotten to the Series in '07. And maybe if you didn't get hurt last year, you might have gotten to the Series. So please, please, STFU.

Gwreck Aug 21 2009 02:50 PM

Let's see, who gave up 3 in the 9th in game 2 of the NLCS? You know, the series which determines what NL team plays in the world series? The series we lost by one game? Jeez.

G-Fafif Aug 21 2009 03:17 PM

Welcome back Billy must go.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 21 2009 03:19 PM

I can't believe youse guys don't wanna 86 this hayseed punk pronto.

Farmer Ted Aug 21 2009 03:21 PM

Missed Billy last night. What did he hit on the radar gun?

Gwreck Aug 21 2009 03:38 PM

94-96

themetfairy Aug 21 2009 03:47 PM

[quote="John Cougar Lunchbucket":tc5rnngp]I can't believe youse guys don't wanna 86 this hayseed punk pronto.[/quote:tc5rnngp] It's not like we're not totally desperate for anyone with a pulse or anything....

bmfc1 Aug 21 2009 04:29 PM

The word from CF is that the Red Sox claimed him. I'm glad it was Boston and not a NL team (especially the Phillies).

OlerudOwned Aug 21 2009 04:33 PM

[quote="bmfc1":1dop3dax]The word from CF is that the Red Sox claimed him. I'm glad it was Boston and not a NL team (especially the Phillies).[/quote:1dop3dax] I'm surprised he passed through that far. Thought the Cubs would've rolled the dice on him.

Farmer Ted Aug 21 2009 04:37 PM

They'll probably offer Dice K in return.

bmfc1 Aug 21 2009 05:24 PM

Tuesday deadline to work out a deal. Speculation: http://nybaseballdigest.com/?p=14573

bmfc1 Aug 23 2009 01:58 PM

I don't have a Baseball Prospectus account but someone at Sons of Sam Horn does and he excerpted a Joe Sheehan column from Saturday: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- A bit more than a year removed from his last major league appearance, Billy Wagner took the mound at Citi Field last night in the top of the eighth inning against the Braves. His entrance was greeted with loud cheers, and those cheers grew as he struck out the first man he faced and then completed his one-two-three inning with a second whiff. Wagner left the mound to the better part of a standing ovation, the crowd sounding a bit like it was celebrating the tension of a critical late-season game. That’s not where the Mets were, though. The team Billy Wagner left last August 2 was two games out of first place in the NL East. The team he returned to is playing out the string in a lost year. The raucous cheers for Wagner, understandable for a good and popular player returning from a serious injury, fell flat to me. It was the absence of Wagner down the stretch in the last two seasons that was the single biggest reason the Mets missed the playoffs in those years, the single biggest reason for the enormous amount of pressure on the 2009 team. Wagner was intermittently available in '07, watching his teammates blow leads in at least one critical game that September and himself losing two, including one to the Phillies in late August. By suffering a season-ending injury in early August last year, Wagner forced the Mets to use lesser relievers at a point in the season where finding substitutes would be difficult. Wagner’s hero’s welcome was dissonant.

soupcan Aug 23 2009 05:49 PM

Wagner’s hero’s welcome was dissonant. Agree 100% with that. Fans are stoopid. Same thing with the fans that gave Pedro a hero's welcome at today's game. WTF? He was a mediocre pitcher at best for the Mets and they didn't win anything of substance while he was here. Now he's on the Phillies and he gets roundly cheered? Amazing.

metirish Aug 23 2009 06:44 PM

Pedro's Mets career obviously wasn't what it could have been , having said that for me personally he gave me some of the best nights ever as a Mets fan. I wish him health Wagner for me was never that likable but I can cheer his comeback if for nothing else then just to see him back so quickly. If he is traded not a tear I will shed.

smg58 Aug 23 2009 07:07 PM

I'd have simply cheered the fact that one of our high-profile guys on the DL actually returned.

Edgy DC Aug 23 2009 07:56 PM

Sheesh, so few things to cheer. Heaven forfend Met fans actually behave kindly.

soupcan Aug 23 2009 08:12 PM

Its not that they can't or shouldn't cheer, but Wagner? Fine, give him a golf clap for his return from his injury. Pedro? He's pitching for the Phillies for Pete's sake. We are supposed to boo the enemy. He was received like he'd won a World Series MVP and was returning home for the first time. That reception would've been fine in Boston, but not here. And irish - no offense, and I understand that you haven't been rooting for the Mets for 35+ years, but anything Pedro did while he was here isn't even on my top 25 best Mets memories.

smg58 Aug 24 2009 08:14 AM

[url]http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090824&content_id=6589350&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb So the latest skinny is that Wagner wants the Sox to buy him out and not offer arbitration, and the Sox are hedging. He'd evidently take less money to be somebody's closer, but he doesn't want a potential type A label to kill his market value. But theoretically the Mets could still allow him to be claimed? Do we know if that's true or not? Keep in mind that there are approximately 3.4 million reasons why getting nothing for him wouldn't actually mean getting nothing.

metirish Aug 24 2009 08:24 AM

How does Wagner have any leverage here at all? , and what the hell is Papelbon mouting on about?....I saw Wagner respond to him and it didn't sound like they will be BFF if the deal goes through.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 24 2009 08:29 AM

Wagner has leverage because he has a no-trade clause in his contract.

metirish Aug 24 2009 08:32 AM

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":3ne67kta]Wagner has leverage because he has a no-trade clause in his contract.[/quote:3ne67kta] Oh yeah that , still it sounds like he wants out and it's not like he nailed down 30 saves this season....

Benjamin Grimm Aug 24 2009 08:36 AM

Yeah, whatever his 'demands' might be, hopefully he'll give in a bit in order to get himself onto a contending team.

duan Aug 24 2009 08:37 AM

[quote="soupcan"] Wagner’s hero’s welcome was dissonant. Agree 100% with that. Fans are stoopid. Same thing with the fans that gave Pedro a hero's welcome at today's game. WTF? He was a mediocre pitcher at best for the Mets and they didn't win anything of substance while he was here. Now he's on the Phillies and he gets roundly cheered? Amazing.

cause people had bit of manners to a returning friend?
We're not in competition with the Phillies and it ain't like he 'spurned' the mets to sign for them. God only knows if he'd have signed for the mets if they made him an offer of comparable money to what he's ended up getting but I don't think they went near it and that they'd decided they were better off rid.

As for the cheering for Wagner, I can only imagine that it was a "wow this is the way it should be" kinda moment with a crowd getting excited about a game for the first time in a while.

The main point of that Sheehan piece btw was to say how Omar shouldn't get fired.

Centerfield Aug 24 2009 09:14 AM

[quote="smg58"][url]http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090824&content_id=6589350&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb So the latest skinny is that Wagner wants the Sox to buy him out and not offer arbitration, and the Sox are hedging. He'd evidently take less money to be somebody's closer, but he doesn't want a potential type A label to kill his market value. But theoretically the Mets could still allow him to be claimed? Do we know if that's true or not? Keep in mind that there are approximately 3.4 million reasons why getting nothing for him wouldn't actually mean getting nothing.

But does it offset the value of the picks we'd get if he walked? He's basically saying that he won't accept arbitration, meaning the Mets would probably be in a position to offer it.

soupcan Aug 24 2009 10:55 AM

[quote="duan":2rzc29jp]We're not in competition with the Phillies[/quote:2rzc29jp] We're not?

Rockin' Doc Aug 24 2009 11:03 AM

[quote="soupcan":1aqzu48f][quote="duan":1aqzu48f]We're not in competition with the Phillies[/quote:1aqzu48f] We're not?[/quote:1aqzu48f] Well, not anymore for this season. Hopefully, the Mets can get healthy and retool for 2010, then we can give the Phillies the beating they deserve.

Ashie62 Aug 24 2009 12:02 PM

OK, Wagner wants Mets to decline 2010 option before approving trade to Red Sox Better be a helluva package or Billy gofuckyoursel fugly

Ashie62 Aug 24 2009 04:59 PM

Wagner believes he will "remain a Mets" per CBS & Rotoworld

metirish Aug 25 2009 09:11 AM

[quote="Ashie62"]Wagner believes he will "remain a Mets" per CBS & Rotoworld

Billy Wagner will finish the 2009 season not on a championship run with the Red Sox, but on a road to nowhere with the Mets. Bean Stringfellow, Wagner's agent, confirmed early this morning that Wagner will invoke his no-trade clause to prevent a trade from the Mets to the Red Sox, who claimed the 38-year-old closer off waivers late last week. Fox Sports, on its Web site, first reported the Wagner news. As per the rules of the waivers process, the Mets and Red Sox still have until 1 p.m. Tuesday to work out a deal. But Wagner, controlling his own destiny, made two demands in return for approving the trade: that the Red Sox decline the left-hander's $8-million team option for 2010, and that they promise not to offer Wagner arbitration this offseason. Boston was amenable to the first demand but not the second. Because Wagner is likely to be a Type A free agent, the team losing him as a free agent would receive two high picks in the 2010 amateur draft. The Mets likely will offer arbitration to Wagner, and Wagner, determined to be a closer next year, almost certainly will decline the offer, given that Francisco Rodriguez is entrenched as the Mets' closer. So in return for paying Wagner roughly $2.7 million to ride out this lost season, the Mets will have something to show for their efforts. Wagner has pitched twice since returning from Tommy John surgery in September of last year, throwing a pair of shutout innings. The Mets and Red Sox held extensive trade discussions, but ultimately, Wagner controlled the situation. Now that Wagner has been pulled back, the only way he could switch teams this season would be a) if the Mets placed him on irrevocable waivers and a team claimed him, automatically getting him and his salary, or b) if the Mets released him. Both are outrageously unlikely scenarios.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 25 2009 09:23 AM

Why is (a) so outrageously unlikely? It it worth spending $2.7 million in order to get two draft picks? I wouldn't think so. I'd place him on the irrevocable waivers and try to save the $2.7 million. I assume that Wagner would still be able to reject the move, though? But on the chance that he'd get claimed by a team that he prefers to Boston, I'd give it a try.

Edgy DC Aug 25 2009 09:45 AM

Well, considering last week's common wisdom was that the Mets don't maximize the draft, it might be worth it to them. They're not just two picks, but two high picks.

metirish Aug 25 2009 09:52 AM

It would not surprise me in the least if the Mets did offer that arbitration that the whole world thinks will be declined only for Wagner to accept it . So my question is....for the Mets to offer arbitration would they do so with knowledge that Wagner would decline?....would they be in cahoots?

Benjamin Grimm Aug 25 2009 09:59 AM

If Wagner accepts arbitration, his new contract won't have a no-trade attached, and he's not 5-and-10 yet, so the Mets could end up trading him to anyone who wanted to accept his contract. That wouldn't be such a bad outcome, except that his contract might be so high that he couldn't be traded without the Mets adding in some cash.

Edgy DC Aug 25 2009 10:00 AM

Certainly people have worked in cahoots in the past, but i think there there are worse things than Wagner accepting arbitration. Presumably, he'd still be dealable if he accepted it. There's a degree of gambling in each postiive option.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 25 2009 10:01 AM

[quote="metirish"]It would not surprise me in the least if the Mets did offer that arbitration that the whole world thinks will be declined only for Wagner to accept it . So my question is....for the Mets to offer arbitration would they do so with knowledge that Wagner would decline?....would they be in cahoots?

Kinda sorta.

Also, barring something drastic and weird happening to him between now and then, it would be REALLY surprising if he asked them not to exercise the option (which he has) and then accepted arbitration... he'd essentially be asking for a likely pay cut (he'd be about a coin flip to make even $8M in arb) and less security (no no-trade, PLUS arb deals aren't fully guaranteed for the season).

I'd like to introduce something else, and make sure I'm not being paranoid, here...

From the AP:

"They're not going to pay $8 million to have me set up Frankie and they know that I wouldn't be satisfied," Wagner said. "They've expressed to me that they want what's best for me and they would like to help me out. They have a closer. They'd like to help me reach that goal. We just have to see if that comes to pass.

This could just be Lil' Country spinning his wheels.

This could also be Lil' Country letting slip that there's been a promise made (however implicit).

If he and the agent were asking Boston to neither exercise the option NOR offer him arbitration... is it possible he'd ask the same of the Mets? And is it possible that a Wilpon or two-- by all reports, he's got a good, close working relationship with ownership, no?-- might agree? Should I start getting next season's drunk on now?

Nymr83 Aug 25 2009 10:24 AM

the wilpons have no reason to agree to that though. is there anything in the CBA preventing Wilpon from paying Wagner to decline arbitration? i'm picturing a scenario where Wagner wants to close, knows it won't happen here, but also knows he's worth more in the free agent market if there arent 2 draft picks attached to him, while the Wilpons dont want him to accept arbitration but want to offer it for the picks, so Wilpon agrees to throw Wagner a million bucks to decline arbitration... the wilpons get their draft picks and wagner gets money to offset the lower contract he'll (presumably) get.

seawolf17 Aug 25 2009 10:44 AM

That has to be collusion or something, right?

smg58 Aug 25 2009 11:03 AM

I see no harm in asking Wagner or Stringfellow if arbitration would be accepted if they offer it, and I see no point in pulling him back off waivers if the answer to that question is yes. Wagner's made it pretty clear that he'd take a little less money to be somebody's closer. However, a lot of type A's had to wait very deep into the offseason to get deals last year, and of that bunch only Manny got anything close to what he'd have gotten from an arbiter. Wagner knows he'd get less money from a team who has to surrender a first-round pick as well -- if I were a GM I'd have a hard time justifying giving up a first rounder for a guy I wouldn't sign for more than a year, unless I thought I was getting him for way less than he was worth.

bmfc1 Aug 25 2009 11:17 AM

Tweets say a trade announcement is coming.

duan Aug 25 2009 11:21 AM

let me see if I can get the sequence right though; we pay him $1 million to decline his option. We then offer him arbitration. Now, if we offer him arbitration the minimum his salary can be is 20% less then his salary in 2009 (10.5 million). Which is 8.4 million. So if he accepted arbitration he'd be getting a minimum of 9.4 million. Which is quite a bit more then his option, and to my mind quite a bit more then he's likely to get on the Free Agent market. hmmmmmm

Edgy DC Aug 25 2009 11:21 AM

Predict what Boston is sending NOW!!!!

Benjamin Grimm Aug 25 2009 11:25 AM

A vat of clam chowder!

bmfc1 Aug 25 2009 11:26 AM

Ted Williams' severed head. Or Casey Kotchman.

Edgy DC Aug 25 2009 11:29 AM

You know, I might accept the Williams deal.

metirish Aug 25 2009 11:30 AM

[quote="bmfc1":ya9o8lrk]Ted Williams' severed head. Or Casey Kotchman.[/quote:ya9o8lrk] jeez , give me Ted's head on a platter NOW.... are we assuming that the trade is with Boston.... what are the tweets saying?

Vic Sage Aug 25 2009 11:31 AM

i don't see Kotchman as an upgrade over Murphy.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 25 2009 11:32 AM

I'd be more than happy with a AA player who's ranked among the top ten in the Boston organization.

Swan Swan H Aug 25 2009 11:32 AM

I don't see Kotchman as an upgrade over Ted Williams' severed head.

Vic Sage Aug 25 2009 11:33 AM

if he's offered and accepts arbitration, is there any rule preventing him from being traded immediately thereafter? A 1-year closer for $8.5m is not a bad asset to have, for dealing purposes. Better yet, trade Frankie's deal and keep Wags.

bmfc1 Aug 25 2009 11:33 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 25 2009 11:33 AM

# SI_JonHeymanwagner is on verge of accepting #redsox deal, according to sources. 10 mins 'til deadline. #mets7 minutes ago from web #Bart Hubbuch NYPost_MetsAfter lobbying by the Mets, a team source says Billy Wagner is now open to the Red Sox trade. No deal yet, though. 1:30 p.m. deadline.7 minutes ago from web So the Mets had to "lobby" Billy to take the deal. It shows that they do not want to pay his salary for September.

Edgy DC Aug 25 2009 11:33 AM

A nice place to go shopping: http://www.soxprospects.com/

bmfc1 Aug 25 2009 11:39 AM

Done. The Mets got 2 PTBNL. And the exciting news is that there'll be someone new in a Mets uni tonight.

Edgy DC Aug 25 2009 11:44 AM

Very sexy.

metirish Aug 25 2009 11:51 AM

Boston.com saying two mid-range prospects in our future....

bmfc1 Aug 25 2009 11:52 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 25 2009 11:53 AM

[quote="metirish":35bmdqfi]Boston.com saying two mid-range prospects in our future....[/quote:35bmdqfi] SI_JonHeyman#redsox agreed to pay the rest of wagner's salary, which is $2-mil-plus, just for the five weeks. NYPost_MetsThe Mets are getting two AA-level prospects. The Red Sox agreed to decline Wagner's option but are retaining draft-pick compensation. I expected nothing as I thought the Mets would be happy to save $2 million. The Red Sox mid-range prospects could be upper-level Mets prospects.

metirish Aug 25 2009 11:53 AM

from Boston.com A source told Tony Massarotti that the Red Sox will not pick up Wagner's $8 million option for 2010 but will retain the right to offer Wagner arbitration, meaning they would get two compensatory draft picks.

Vic Sage Aug 25 2009 12:01 PM

would it have been worth more to the Mets to spend the $2m and have 2 high draft picks, or save the money and get 2 "mid-level" AA prospects? Well, first, we need to see which prospects they are; secondly, i trust the Sox talent eval dept more than the Mets. That being said, i hope we didn't fail to maximize Wags' long-term value just to save some short term $.

Edgy DC Aug 25 2009 12:01 PM

AA is the Portland Sea Dogs, who happen to be in Binghamton tonight. Pick a pair of dogs: http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb ... e&sid=t546 Probably not much point in transferring them to the Mets yet with about a week to go in the season.

metirish Aug 25 2009 12:06 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 25 2009 12:07 PM

Boston.com It is not expected that any more than one of the two players the Sox are giving up will come from the 40-man roster, and neither is considered an upper-tier prospect 40 Man http://www.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=bos

Benjamin Grimm Aug 25 2009 12:06 PM

How about Luis Exposito and Josh Reddick?

bmfc1 Aug 25 2009 12:08 PM

You're right: they'll probably announce the names after the Eastern League season concludes. How about Iggy Suarez? Good: he was born in Corona. Bad: two years at AA and a low average. http://eastern.league.milb.com/milb/sta ... pid=458902

metirish Aug 25 2009 12:08 PM

I'm picking Marcus McBeth of the 40 man roster.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 25 2009 12:09 PM

Oops, I forgot to look at the Sea Dog pitchers! How about Felix Doubront or Junichi Tazawa?

bmfc1 Aug 25 2009 12:14 PM

NYPost_MetsJust passed Billy Wagner in the team hotel as he was headed back to his room. He had a big grin and said, "I'm outta here!"

Vic Sage Aug 25 2009 12:15 PM

You don't suppose they would have given us Reddick, do you? That would be too much to hope for.

seawolf17 Aug 25 2009 12:16 PM

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":29relqb9]Oops, I forgot to look at the Sea Dog pitchers! How about Felix Doubront or Junichi Tazawa?[/quote:29relqb9] Tazawa is in the big leagues now, so it won't be him. I'll take Ryan Kalish and Adam Mills.

bmfc1 Aug 25 2009 12:22 PM

Speaking of minor leaguers... Nick Evans is back. (That was mean!)

bmfc1 Aug 25 2009 12:24 PM

From boston.com: It is not expected that any more than one of the two players the Sox are giving up will come from the 40-man roster, and neither is considered an upper-tier prospect. ----------------- From NY Baseball Digest: Billy Wagner Trade: Who Are PTBNL? By Howard Megdal ~ August 25th, 2009. Filed under: Howard Megdal. It is done. The Billy Wagner Era, lasting approximately 3 7/9 seasons, has come to an end with New York dealing Wagner to Boston for two players to be named later. Mike Axisa of MLBTradeRumors speculates that the two players are on Boston’s 40-man roster, but wouldn’t have gotten through waivers, thus making the PTBNL process necessary. Bart Hubbuch of the New York Post says the pair are Double-A prospects. So who will it be? Among the 40-man, only one player is currently in Double-A: Felix Doubront. This would be fantastic. Doubront is holding his own as a 21-year-old at Double-A.In 104 innings, he has 94 strikeouts, 48 walks and a 3.38 ERA. He doesn’t turn 22 until October. This would be a nice return by itself for Wagner. the Mets need upper-level help, and chances are a draft pick wouldn’t be this good or this advanced in 2010. As for the Triple-A members of the 40-man roster, the talent really runs the gamut, from players like Michael Bowden and Josh Reddick, to lesser lights like Mark Wagner and Brian Anderson. If the Mets compromised on a pair like the latter two- and I suppose it is distinctly possible, if they were frightened enough of offering Wagner arbitration to simply prefer to be rid of his salary- they absolutely did not get decent value for a pitcher who provides help to Boston in 2009, and who could have netted a pair of draft picks for the Mets in 2010. Only time will tell, but this is the lay of the PTBNL land right now. Hope for Reddick and Doubront; get ready to settle for Wagner and Anderson.

Vic Sage Aug 25 2009 12:28 PM

Felix Doubrant is the only current Seadog on the Red Sox 40-man roster (as of 8/16/09). I'd be happy if he were one of the players... he looks like a 21-year old LH power pitcher.

smg58 Aug 25 2009 12:43 PM

The Mets take money off the books, plus they get guys that will hopefully offset the loss of the picks. All's well that ends well.

PiggiesTomatoes Aug 25 2009 01:10 PM

If we're taking money off the books, is it enough to hire a new GM? ;-)

metirish Aug 25 2009 01:15 PM

[quote="PiggiesTomatoes"]If we're taking money off the books, is it enough to hire a new GM? ;-)

Minaya is coming back , no point even thinking about that anymore.....he was always coming back I suppose.


here he is walking around with his contract stuffed into this pocket

Vic Sage Aug 25 2009 01:31 PM

[quote="smg58":pkxugdss]The Mets take money off the books, plus they get guys that will hopefully offset the loss of the picks. All's well that ends well.[/quote:pkxugdss] the money coming off the books this year means nothing to us, and if the guys they're getting have significantly less upside than the picks might've had, then they've sold an asset for less than optimum value, just to put some short-terms bucks back in their own pockets. I don't want to go off on them yet, until i see what prospects we've gotten and what might've been available with the compensation picks, but its not like they're ability to save $2m of this year's budget is going to make a flea's dick worth of difference for next season. It just mean Jeffy doesn't have to sell the yacht.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 25 2009 01:55 PM

[quote="Vic Sage":3n3hkfng][quote="smg58":3n3hkfng]The Mets take money off the books, plus they get guys that will hopefully offset the loss of the picks. All's well that ends well.[/quote:3n3hkfng] the money coming off the books this year means nothing to us, and if the guys they're getting have significantly less upside than the picks might've had, then they've sold an asset for less than optimum value, just to put some short-terms bucks back in their own pockets. I don't want to go off on them yet, until i see what prospects we've gotten and what might've been available with the compensation picks, but its not like they're ability to save $2m of this year's budget is going to make a flea's dick worth of difference for next season. It just mean Jeffy doesn't have to sell the yacht.[/quote:3n3hkfng] I wonder. Were someone to stake me, I wouldn't turn down an offer to sit at a high-stakes poker table with the Wilpons and our other front-office staff. I've spilled enough e-ink on the matter. Let's just say I'm with you, Sage.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 25 2009 02:07 PM

The buzz we've been hearing about how $30 million will be coming off the payroll, and that the Mets won't be reinvesting all of it, is not very encouraging. Hopefully it's not true. (If they reinvest $28 million of the $30 million, I won't gripe too hard, but if they put all 30 in their pockets, then it's a sure sign that we're entering another period of mediocrity.)

Nymr83 Aug 25 2009 02:54 PM

[quote="seawolf17":2dtfh2iv]That has to be collusion or something, right?[/quote:2dtfh2iv] moot point now, i know that the opposite IS allowed, Beltran has a contract clause that the Mets won't offer arbitration when the current contract runs out. the mets/wagner could have always handled it that way (add a clause saying that wagner will decline it if offered, and they'd up his buyout accordingly to make it all an amended part of the existing contract) as for the trade itself, i'll reserve judgment until i see who the PTBNLs are.

metsguyinmichigan Aug 25 2009 03:10 PM

I don't suppose the PTBNLs are Josh Beckett and Dustin Pedroia......sigh.

smg58 Aug 25 2009 03:54 PM

The Boston Herald is reporting that one of the players is Chris Carter, a lefty OF/1B with some pop who keeps getting stranded in AAA. There are some concerns about his defense, but he appears to have a good enough bat for an NL bench.

bmfc1 Aug 25 2009 03:58 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 25 2009 04:00 PM

Chris Carter is supposed to be one of the two PTBNL. Not the ex-Viking. Not the host of "Breakfast With The Beatles." Wikipedia already has him on the Mets. He got the first RBI at CF (in the exhibition game). http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=4002921 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Cart ... _hitter%29 http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/ ... rter.shtml Mr. Administrator: perhaps we could have a separate thread for the post-trade activity?

duan Aug 25 2009 04:00 PM

one thing that people are forgetting even about type a free agents is that there's no guarantee that you actually get a pick in the first round for them. That only happens if the pick is between 16-30 and if the team doesn't sign any higher ranked free agents. Sure we may have got a sandwich pick and a round 2/3/4 pick but it's not like we're getting first dibs on a top 5 pick.

sharpie Aug 25 2009 04:03 PM

Bring him up. Give him some starts.

Farmer Ted Aug 25 2009 04:08 PM

Carter gets stranded in AAA because Youkilis, Papi, Kotchman and now Gonzalez can all play first. He's probably that happiest fucker in New England right now.

MFS62 Aug 25 2009 05:22 PM

The Mets are so decimated that I'd take any mouth breathing mammal who can swing a bat. Later

Ashie62 Aug 25 2009 05:57 PM

[quote="Vic Sage":3sm9lnrs]You don't suppose they would have given us Reddick, do you? That would be too much to hope for.[/quote:3sm9lnrs] Not getting Reddick.. How about Caleb Clay...

Benjamin Grimm Aug 25 2009 06:23 PM

Caleb Clay? Didn't he change his name to Mohammed Ali?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 25 2009 11:53 PM

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":2xrtmp87]Caleb Clay? Didn't he change his name to Mohammed Ali?[/quote:2xrtmp87] Mama named him Clay, I'm-a call him Clay.

MFS62 Aug 26 2009 08:30 AM

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":25x0rdzs]Caleb Clay? Didn't he change his name to Mohammed Ali?[/quote:25x0rdzs] No, he was the one who changed his name to Mohammed Steinberg. He had issues. Later

Benjamin Grimm Aug 26 2009 08:35 AM

[quote="bmfc1":ywmvf28t]Chris Carter is supposed to be one of the two PTBNL. Not the ex-Viking. Not the host of "Breakfast With The Beatles." [/quote:ywmvf28t] Never heard of either of those guys. When I hear "Chris Carter" I think of the creator of The X-Files. Anyway, our Chris, if he is our Chris, will turn 27 next month. In 106 games at Pawtucket, he's .279/.340/.439 with 14 homers! (It's pretty bad that we've reached a point that when I see a guy with 14 homers I think, wow! That's a lot of homers!)

metirish Aug 26 2009 08:37 AM

27 , he's only now entering his prime....a steal by Minaya

MFS62 Aug 26 2009 08:42 AM

This guy didn't become a regular until the age of 26 because he had a guy named Gil Hodges blocking his path to the majors: http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... ji01.shtml We can only hope, right? Later

Valadius Aug 26 2009 08:42 AM

Sad that when I think of "Chris Carter" I either think of Cris Carter or Chris Carlin.

Edgy DC Aug 26 2009 08:47 AM

My hometown had a team make it to the Little League World Series. They were a year ahead of me in school, and while they were some good players, it's not like any of them went on to future glory, or even that our high school team was particularly excellent their senior year. They just ckicked well and peaked at 12. Their cleanup hitter was named Chris Carter, and he struck out in a big spot (probably against Taiwan) and the poor guy, who to my 11-year-old eyes was a big tough dude, ended up in Newsday as a crying moppet. To this day, 31 years later, I hear the name Chris Carter and I see the chapped sobbing face of a 12-year-old Little Leaguer.

Vic Sage Aug 26 2009 12:25 PM

Chris Carter? Chris freakin Carter? A 26-year old AAAA LHed DH/1Bman? We've already got Murphy, who is 2 years younger and already a better glove at 1b (by all accounts) than Carter. Carter has more power, but not alot more, based on his minor league numbers. We would've been better off with the draft choices. We need an upgrade over Murphy, but it ain't Carter. Hopefully, Ike Davis will be the answer. But, unless the other prospect has more upside, the Wagner deal looks like a pure salary dump, which irritates me greatly.

Vic Sage Aug 26 2009 02:24 PM

[quote="duan":gihseoso]one thing that people are forgetting even about type a free agents is that there's no guarantee that you actually get a pick in the first round for them. That only happens if the pick is between 16-30 and if the team doesn't sign any higher ranked free agents. Sure we may have got a sandwich pick and a round 2/3/4 pick but it's not like we're getting first dibs on a top 5 pick.[/quote:gihseoso] Past Mets compensation picks include David Wright, Heilman, Kunz and Ike Davis. I'd take a chance with that over Chris freakin Carter, who is behind not only Murphy but Ike Davis and Lucas Duda, as far as LHed 1bmen/corner OFers go.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 26 2009 02:34 PM

[quote="Vic Sage":3p37rvyv] But, unless the other prospect has more upside, the Wagner deal looks like a pure salary dump, which irritates me greatly.[/quote:3p37rvyv] Not only that, but the deal's PTBNL-ness may mean that we need to have our fingers crossed that Lil' Country doesn't pull an Eric Gagne gag job in order to snag as MUCH as Carter. The Sox are paying Wags' salary. The Mets aren't getting anyone back without a distinctly limited ceiling or major, major flaws as a player.

bmfc1 Sep 05 2009 02:19 PM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

Welcome Eddie Lora. From mlbtraderumors.com (the system won't let me post a URL): The Red Sox are sending minor league first baseman Eddie Lora to the Mets to complete last month's Billy Wagner trade, according to Joe McDonald of The Providence Journal. The 20-yr old Lora hit .222/.287/.414 in 99 at-bats with Boston's rookie level Gulf Coast League affiliate this year. He was not ranked as one of their top 30 prospects coming into the year according to Baseball America. It's been reported that New York will also receive Triple-A first baseman Chris Carter in the deal, but he'll have to wait until the offseason to officially become part of the deal after the Yankees claimed him off waivers.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 05 2009 06:45 PM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

Well, then Lora doesn't exactly complete the trade, does he?

MFS62 Sep 06 2009 10:41 AM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

[quote="Benjamin Grimm"]Well, then Lora doesn't exactly complete the trade, does he?

He his numbers don't look like he would complete a High-A League roster.

Later

Benjamin Grimm Oct 13 2009 08:04 AM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

[quote="Yahoo Sports"] Closer Billy Wagner retiring By Mark Miller It's looking like former All-Star closer Billy Wagner is going to forever be stuck at 385 saves in the record book. The word is that he's retiring this off-season, according to the New York Post. The former reliever for the Boston Red Sox, New York Mets, Houston Astros and Philadelphia Phillies was considered one of the best closers in baseball for a time but injuries have hurt him in the last few years and he spent most of 2009 rehabbing along with most of the other Mets' starters. But he got a slight reprieve when he got picked up by the Boston Red Sox, where he appeared in 15 regular season games and two postseason games against the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim.

Edgy DC Oct 13 2009 08:08 AM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

Suckers. All you circular-logickers and your "I think the Mets did the wrong thing because the Mets did it and therefore it's wrong" --- you're suckers. Suck. Ers.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 13 2009 08:15 AM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

Yeah, Carter and Lora are looking a whole lot better than the Type A picks that Boston won't be getting. Of course, the "according to the New York Post" part of the article makes me not all that sure how official this is. Billy may yet do a Brett Favre thing.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 13 2009 08:22 AM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

Wags' final game will be remembered for another closer's implosion, but he of course started that fire. Yeah, good thing we weren't too bent on collecting draft pix if this were the case. Perhaps this postseason could go a long way toward changing expectations for bullpens. "Closers" Franklin, Lidge, Street, Papelbon, Nathan have all been touched up and even Mariano allowed a costly RBI hit. The only guy with any success here has been Torre, who's been using Broxton unconventionally.

Frayed Knot Oct 13 2009 08:52 AM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

The odds on collecting draft picks from hanging on to Wagner were never better than remote to begin with - and then the odds of one or more of them being a better bet than a player who's already reached AAA (and briefly the majors) is iffy as well. And, not to sound like a Wagner suck-up, but his final game where he started the fire that burned Papelbon was more bad luck than bad pitching. The leadoff "double" off him was a chopper that Youkilis tried to scoop and wound up swatting into the photog's booth. He then got two outs sandwiched around a walk including another slow chopper hit too slowly to become a GiDP. He got charged with both runs when Papelbon allowed a 2R single to the first batter he faced. He always said he'd retire after this contract ran out but starting saying otherwise after he got hurt. Not sure what made him (apparently) reverse track now - possibly an acknowledgment that he's not going to get a big-money closer's deal. I think he can still be a serviceable pitcher, but maybe that's not what he wants.

Ashie62 Oct 13 2009 08:58 AM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

Somehere there is a song paroday for Wagner and Billy Joels' "We didn't start the fire"

Ashie62 Oct 13 2009 09:00 AM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

[quote="Benjamin Grimm"]Yeah, Carter and Lora are looking a whole lot better than the Type A picks that Boston won't be getting. Of course, the "according to the New York Post" part of the article makes me not all that sure how official this is. Billy may yet do a Brett Favre thing.

The Jets have signed Billy Wagner

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 13 2009 09:05 AM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

[quote="Ashie62":14te1zpv]Somehere there is a song paroday for Wagner and Billy Joels' "We didn't start the fire"[/quote:14te1zpv] Harry Parker, Owenby, Bob Shaw, Norm Sherry Rigo Beltran, Tim Burke, Jesse Orosco Jim McAndrew, Guetterman, Isringhausen, Gunderson Komiyama, Kashiwada, Armando Reynoso Hamilton, Hudek, Cory Lidle, Lockwood Skip Roger Mason, Doug Sisk – can we take another risk Roy Lee Jackson, Bob McClure, what else do you want us for Greg McMichael, Tommy Moore, will someone shut the goddamn door? We didn't start the fire It was always burning Since the world's been turning We didn't start the fire No we didn't light it But we tried to fight it Pulsipher, Pete Smith, Joe Sambito, Yorkis Grover Powell, Tracy Stallard, Jonathan Hurst Don Aase, David West, Charlie Williams, Shourek Bill Hepler, Ron Herbel, which one was the worst Guthrie, Denehy, New York’s got a scary team Mauro Gozzo, Brent Gaff, Greg Goosen, Bruce Chen Rich Rodriguez, A Young, Cal Schiraldi, Reardon Mel Rojas, Bob Friend -- trouble in the bullpen! We didn't start the fire It was always burning Since the world's been turning We didn't start the fire No we didn't light it But we tried to fight it Mike Fyrie, Brian Rose, Kenny Rogers, Tug McGraw Neil Allen, Pat Mahomes, answering the bullpen phone Ron Taylor, Tom Hall, heart-stopping baseball Buzz Capra, Don Cardwell, children of late-inning hell Dennis Cook, Jerry Cram, get this team out of a jam Toby Borland, Cisco, here comes Acevedo Apodaca, Espinosa, Nolan Ryan, Jack DiLauro Brent Hincliffe, Jeff Innis, help us Johnny Franco! We didn't start the fire It was always burning Since the world's been turning We didn't start the fire No we didn't light it But we tried to fight it Ray Searge, Johnson, no one out and two men on Musselman, Jim Mann, Chuck Taylor, Ed Glynn Roger Mac, Sugar Kane, Ralph Terry, Randy Tate, Roberts, Rusteck and Riggan, bring David Weathers out again Bob Rauch, Hal Reniff, warming up: Another stiff Jacome, blown away, what else do I have to say We didn't start the fire It was always burning Since the world's been turning We didn't start the fire No we didn't light it But we tried to fight it John Pacella, Vinegar Bend, Pete Walker, back again Moorehead, Whitehurst, Terry Leach, they’re the worst Brad Clontz, Ed Lynch, we need you guys in a pinch Seminara, Falcone, Schiraldi, Candyman Barry Jones cannot hide, Barry Manuel -- suicide Blown leads, lost games, heart attacks, migraines The bullpen always makes us sore, no matter what the time or score Benitez’ finger in a door, I can't take it anymore! We didn't start the fire But when we are gone Will it still burn on, and on, and on, and on...

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 13 2009 09:06 AM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

No one ever called me on including Greg Goossen among the relievers.

Frayed Knot Oct 13 2009 01:22 PM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

I'm assuming that parody was already kicking around some place (past parody challenge?) and wasn't just slapped together in like 7 minutes? Hell, it would take longer than that just to type it.

Edgy DC Oct 13 2009 01:23 PM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

No, that's an oldie.

metirish Oct 13 2009 01:25 PM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

Never saw that before.......nice work John Pacella, Vinegar Bend, Pete Walker, back again Moorehead, Whitehurst, Terry Leach, they’re the worst excellent

Centerfield Oct 14 2009 01:22 PM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

Wags not retiring, says his agent.

Edgy DC Oct 14 2009 01:29 PM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

Sucker! I'm a sucker! Suck. Er.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 14 2009 01:33 PM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

I'm Bean Stringfellow, and you can kiss my ass.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 14 2009 02:25 PM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

[quote="Edgy DC":3bt94asp]Sucker! I'm a sucker! Suck. Er.[/quote:3bt94asp] Having been taught a valuable lesson about making bald assertions about things I was not privy to firsthand-- and having had a nice serving of humble pie plopped on my plate, to boot-- I was about to apologize. Instead, SUCK IT, homes! WHOO HOO! I WAS RIGHT! HA HA! THIS IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE METS MAKING A SMART DECISION!

Edgy DC Oct 14 2009 02:30 PM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

Mmm... A shit sandwich.

metirish Oct 14 2009 02:31 PM Re: Wagner Headed Elsewhere?

Bean Stringfellow was Scott Strickland's agent too IIRC , useless information but there you have it.