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Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

seawolf17 Sep 22 2009 01:06 PM

I've been a big fan of Out of the Park Baseball ever since Front Page Sports was no longer supported when Windows XP came around. I've been playing OOTP6 for a few years, and even though they're up to OOTP10, I never upgraded. However, they just released Version 8 for free (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/ootp8/index.php), so I figured it was worth starting over. I just picked up the Mets after the 1990 season, before it all started to go to hell. The AI was a little trade-happy in the offseason; guys were flying all over the league. I made two deals; the major one was moving Vince Coleman, Keith Miller, and a few other guys to Houston for Craig Biggio (my current catcher, with plans to move him to second as soon as Hundley is ready), Pete Harnisch (a few years before he became an actual Met), and outfielder Gerald Young (replaces Coleman at the top of the lineup). A little lopsided, yes, but the offer actually came from Houston to start (they wanted Coleman). The other deal moved Charlie O'Brien to Oakland for Willie Wilson, who's 35 and past his prime, but will serve as a nice fourth outfielder. I signed Todd Benzinger and Dan Plesac, and lured Jim Rice out of retirement to strike out off the bench in a big spot. I had signed him to a minor league deal, but then Mark Carreon got hurt on Opening Day for the season, so Jim's up until he looks his age. A four-run ninth inning on Opening Day and a 13-2 win on Opening Day II (remember that?), and my slightly retooled 1991 Mets are off to a nice start. Pressure's on this year, but we certainly have the horses to win, despite Tim Teufel playing second base every day and some questions both defensively and in the bullpen.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2009 01:27 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

So, a few bad rolls of the dice, and there's a reasonable chance that Biggio turns into a washout? Or do you have a solid expectation that DeuteroBiggio will parallel the career of the actual guy?

seawolf17 Sep 22 2009 02:11 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

[quote="Edgy DC":1z67xz44]So, a few bad rolls of the dice, and there's a reasonable chance that Biggio turns into a washout? Or do you have a solid expectation that DeuteroBiggio will parallel the career of the actual guy?[/quote:1z67xz44] Well, I'm certainly hoping that his career parallels, but you never know; in in 1991, he was still a kid, coming off a .689 OPS year, which is probably why I got him relatively cheaply. Same with Harnisch, whose career took off in 1991, but was 11-11, 4.34 in Baltimore in 1990. And Coleman was a big star in 1990, but I was more than happy to keep him off my team. Bobby Bonilla signed an extension in Pittsburgh during spring training, so he won't be a Met in this world. (Yet.) So we'll see. Either way, it's better than Rick Cerone behind the plate and Anthony Young in the rotation, at least for now. Just scored three in the eighth to beat Philly in Game 3, including John Franco's first save of the year.

Nymr83 Sep 22 2009 02:28 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

whenever you do a historical league (anything that starts before the current year) theres an option somewhere 'under the hood' to have players perform roughly analogous to how they did historically (in a career sense, not year by year) or to develop as randomly as fictional players.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2009 02:30 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

That would seem to me to be more fun. Biggio might flounder, but Generation K might prosper.

metirish Sep 22 2009 02:31 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

Sounds like fun , what's your active roster seawolf?

Methead Sep 22 2009 06:42 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

[quote="seawolf17":1dy8smsp] However, they just released Version 8 for free (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/ootp8/index.php), so I figured it was worth starting over. I just picked up the Mets after the 1990 season, before it all started to go to hell. [/quote:1dy8smsp] Cool. I freakin' LOVED Front Page Sports '98. I still have the disc, in case anyone ever figures out how to make it run on XP. I got addicted to Puresim shortly after FPS '98 was exiled. I've always wanted to try some of the other sims, but didn't want to pay for 2 games. Now that there's a free version, maybe I'll check it out. Puresim is free now too, apparently the developer is working on a whole new baseball sim. I rarely play historical leagues, although I'll sometimes pit two teams from different eras against each other in a 7 game series or something just for fun. For me it's tough to make transactions based on the names of the players. Now that I think about it, I bet it would be fun to go back to 1993 and jettison all that crap.

seawolf17 Sep 22 2009 08:09 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

I was going to start at 1993, but it really started to go south earlier, so I wanted to see if I could stem the tide. And I turned off the "use real development" option or whatever it was called -- that was an option when you started the league. The 25-man roster, three games into the 1991 season: Rotation: Gooden, Cone, Viola, Harnisch, Fernandez Bullpen: Innis, A Pena, Plesac, Whitehurst, A Young, Franco (closer) C: Biggio & Sasser 1B: Magadan (with Todd Benzinger on the bench) 2B: Teufel 3B: Jefferies SS: HoJo (with Elster on the bench) OF: McReynolds, Gerald Young, and a platoon of Daryl Boston and the aging Hubie Brooks in right. Backups are Willie Wilson and the ageless Jim Rice. Not exactly world-beaters, but serviceable.

metsmarathon Sep 23 2009 07:03 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

y'know, it kindof sounds like a fun project to see which among us can best rebuild the mets from 1991 moving forward...

Methead Sep 23 2009 07:47 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

Messed around with OOTP a little last night. It's got so much more depth than Puresim ever had. I'm a little overwhelmed by it so far, actually. The financial model alone could be a game by itself.

seawolf17 Sep 28 2009 09:17 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

A little playing, a little simulating, and suddenly it's May 5, 1991, and the Mets are off to a 19-5 start, despite weird splits across the roster. * Craig Biggio played himself out of a job; he hit .176 over 68 ABs before I sent him back down to AAA and let Mackey catch every day; Mackey is 6-for-22 on the season. Dave Liddell was called up to back up Sasser. (Keith Miller, dealt to Houston in the Biggio trade, leads the majors with 15 doubles.) Biggio has 7 hits in three games in Tidewater, though, so I'm assuming I'll bring him back up in a little while. * HoJo and Dave Magadan are carrying the offense. HoJo is only hitting .240, but has 8 HR and 26 RBI, both of which lead the team by far. (Kevin McReynolds has 3 home runs, and Magadan is second with 15 RBI.) Magadan, though, leads the majors with 20 walks and a .472 OBP. * It's been all about the rotation: Gooden (3-1, 2.88) Cone (3-1, 1.87) Viola (3-0, 3.18) Harnisch (2-0, 2.17) - fighting a back injury right now that caused him to miss his last start Fernandez (1-1, 3.46) - 4 for 7 at the plate with a home run No major roster moves to report. Claimed 28-year-old Jamie Moyer off waivers, which sent Anthony Young back to AAA, but when I realized that I really didn't need to carry 11 pitchers, I dealt him for minor leaguer Andy Ashby, who was tearing up AAA for the Phillies, and called up Chris Donnels so I had an extra bat. Not a runaway by any means, though; the Cardinals (16-9) and Expos (15-10) are right on our heels.

metsmarathon Sep 29 2009 07:35 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

i imagine you're managing hte games instead of just letting them autoplay? i set up a 1991 league, did some roster magic, and basically let hte games play themselves while i assumed the role of gm. i finished around 0.500. this offseason, i've gone through a major overhaul of the roster, and am rocking a .750 winning percentage in early may. are you allowing for the creation of fictional players, or only real people? 'cos i've got fictional players being generated, and i think i might have a fake generation K making haste through my minor leagues. i figured i'd get a feel for the GM-duties before i tried to get more involved in the day-to-day managing. its friggin addictive though.

seawolf17 Sep 29 2009 08:09 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

Mostly managing, yes. Just won a game with this tenth inning: Bottom of the 10th: Pitching for Los Angeles, Jay Howell. M. Sasser lined out to center. K. Elster grounded out to shortstop. T. Benzinger, pinch hitting for D. Cone, reached on error by first baseman. G. Young reached on error by second baseman, Benzinger to second. D. Magadan reached on error by first baseman, Benzinger to third, Young to second. H. Johnson walked, Benzinger scores, Young to third, Magadan to second. Game Over... New York defeats Los Angeles, 1 to 0 Yes, David Cone pitched ten scoreless innings, and yes, that went (with two outs) error-error-error-bases loaded walk. Bet that's never actually happened before. Haven't gotten to the draft yet, but I believe I checked the option to include "actual" rookies. We'll see if it does that.

Edgy DC Sep 30 2009 07:05 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

Who were the Los Angeles infielders?

duan Sep 30 2009 09:15 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

my problem with OOTP was it seemed to be locked into a curious hybrid of 'in game managing' where you're making a fairly limited set of decisions in game vs 'GM managing' where you're just doing the roster and letting the results happen. If you're going to allow the in game managing i think you need to allow it be a bit more then they do, or else just force people to stick to being a GM and GM alone. I can never buy into the 'autoplay' thing as I'm left feeling "... but if" Football Manager wrestles with this quite a bit as well, and sometimes gets it very right, but can also take way to long to play.

duan Sep 30 2009 09:15 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

oh that and the not just having the proper names and players etc.

seawolf17 Sep 30 2009 09:26 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

The Dodgers had Rod Booker at second, a defensive replacement (HA!) for Juan Samuel; and Dave Valle, usually a catcher, at first, who they double-switched into the game into the ninth (replacing Bill Doran at first). Looks like the "importing historical rookies" feature makes everyone who was a rookie the following season (in this case, 1992) eligible for the June 15 draft. I've been playing most of the games, and there's definitely an upgrade in the game-management aspect from v6 to v8.

Edgy DC Nov 23 2009 08:59 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

This OotP game gets strange, even though I clearly don't know what I'm doing. I've been playing the 1977 Mets, trying to follow through on what would have happened without the midnight massacre, but the funny thing is that the roster they gave me to open the season included both Seaver and half the bounty (Steve Henderson and Dan Norman) that the Mets got for him. I didn't really think about it until six weeks into the season. I think I was wondering if the the game would have the Reds offer the historical package for him and then I realized I already had half of it. Had I known, I would have sent Norman and Henderson back to the Reds for nothing, just to be fair. But I guess since the season was already under way, there was no way to unscramble the eggs. Playing my values, I've been rejecting all trade requests. I'd been even putting no trade clauses into contract extensions I've been offering. But it's funny, because they really come at you. And like a mysterious elusive girl, my trade chastity only gets me more suitors. I love love love carrying three catchers, as long as (1) at least one of them can play another positon or two, and (2) one of them is a lefthanded batter. It also helps if at least one is defensively exceptional. And with Grote, Stearns, those first two conditions are certainly met, and they all have high, if not excpetional defensive ratings at this point in their careers. But then something happened. Everybody else in the league loved lefthanded catching also, and in the first month, I got a half dozen trade offers for Hodges. Perhaps they also sensed my redundancy made him expendable. After a few weeks, it stopped, but when Grote and Stearns started red hot, I wasn't getting enough at-bats to justify him, and in the midst of a pitching pinch, I farmed him out. By mid-season, Stearns and Grote still hadn't cooled off. And then the offers for Hodges started pouring in again. They were ocing at me like I had young Ken Griffey Jr. on the block. My exception to trade rule was, if someone was unhappy (they actually have ratings for their morale), I'd consider that tacit permisson for me to trade him. Then I got this nutty offer from Texas --- Toby Harrah plus an A-ball outfielder. Toby at this point was a 28-year-old middle-of-the-lineup hitter with a 20/20 rating at shortstop and at third. I checked to see if Hodges was unhappy, but no, he was chillin' at Norfolk, biding his time until a spot opened up. But I had two weeks to mull the deal (the absurd steal, actually), and after about 10 days, Hodges' morale fell to neutral, and I pulled the switch. I feel awful.

Fman99 Nov 24 2009 06:32 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

I'll stick to fantasy baseball/football and the associated wagering of actual cash, thanks, for my virtual management needs.

HahnSolo Nov 24 2009 06:55 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

I'm unfamiliar with OOTP Baseball. When you say you have "trade offers" is that from who, exactly? Are other teams run by other individuals? Or if you play the '77 Mets...does the computer act as all the other teams?

Edgy DC Nov 24 2009 07:22 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

Yeah, the computer is acting as everbody else, and managing my team. I actually don't know what my manager is doing. With no regard for the lineup and depth charts I've given him, he keeps making double switches and pinch hitting to the point where Dave Kingman has 6-10 appearances at shortstop. But in a ridiculously tight division (six teams within three games) we've won eight of ten going into the All-Star break, climbing from fifth to first, so I trust his crazy ass. We're moving guys around like crazy, and only three players --- Grote, Kingman, Mazzilli --- have played enough to qualify for the batting title. One strange thing about being general manager of this squad is that guys are getting paid in 1977 dollars, but they're asking for latter day contracts. So I get the spectacle of a guy making $120,000 trying to get a five year deal for $14,000,000 per. Matlack is looking for an extension at five years at $12,667,000 per. I'm holding the line at four years, $10,000,000 per, with a fifth year option. Should I cave?

seawolf17 Nov 24 2009 08:06 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

I thought the game was supposed to be sensitive to the financial situations of the time you're playing. I wonder if you forgot to click something in the setup. When my hard drive fried, I lost all my work on the 1991 team, so I restarted a few days ago. Re-did some of the deals, but got a few other offers that were too good to pass up. The team got older than last time, but I like the mix only fifteen games into the new 1991 season: Coleman LF (Decided to keep him this time, since Houston balked at including Gerald Young in the Harnisch/Biggio deal.) Jefferies 2B (Not a second baseman necessarily, but I need his bat in the lineup.) McReynolds 1B (Moved him to first, with on-the-job training a la Mike Piazza. I'll suffer with the D to keep his bat.) Strawberry CF (Reacquired from LA for Wally Whitehurst, a five-star pitching prospect, and Hubie Brooks. Kinda surprised LA took the deal.) HoJo 3B Andre Dawson RF (Acquired from the Cubs along with minor-leaguer Jose Vizcaino for Dave Magadan and minor-league OF Chuck Carr. Pushed Straw to CF. Starting to show his 36 years, batting .200/.224/.515. Might not be the answer.) Alan Trammell SS (The Tigers offered me the 33 yo Trammell for Kevin Elster, straight up. Also not getting any younger, but holding his own.) Craig Biggio C (Acquired from Houston with Pete Harnisch and Casey Candaele for Ron Darling and three minor leaguers.) The offense, as you might imagine, has been pretty solid, with Dawson the only starter under .275. Biggio's 22 for 48, McReynolds has a .991 OPS, and Straw is on pace for a 43 HR, 184 RBI season. Bench: Mackey Sasser Jose Vizcaino Chris Donnels Casey Candaele Mark Carreon Deion Sanders (Acquired from Atlanta in exchange for Daryl Boston.) Rotation: Cone Gooden Viola Harnisch Sid Bullpen: Danny Darwin (Picked up off waivers to be a long reliever. Pushed Anthony Young to Tidewater, where he's currently "angry.") Jeff Innis Alejandro Pena Dave Smith (The former Astro, also picked up off waivers.) Dan Schatzeder (LOOGY, just grabbed off waivers. Pushed Doug Simons to Tidewater.) John Franco (closing for now, but Pena and Smith are both barking at him.) Don't have much offensively in the system so far -- all the minor leagues are starting off slow. Pitching staff in Tidewater looks good, though, full of prospects and retreads. Rotation is Joe Magrane, Julio Valera, Lance McCullers, Pete Schourek, and Angry Anthony Young, all of whom have ERA under 3.50. But with Cone at 3-1, 1.80, Harnisch at 2-0, 1.17, and Doc at 1-2, 2.95 with six CGs between them, there's not much room up north. Only Straw is signed long-term (through 1996). HoJo, Doc, Coleman, Dawson, and Cone are all FAs after the season, so I'll have to see if I can get creative on extensions.

Edgy DC Nov 24 2009 10:10 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

Eighty five games into the season, the Phillies' Tug McGraw is still unblemished: W L S ERA G GS IP R ER HR BB SO WHIP OAVG BABiP 0 1 22 0.00 32 0 34.7 1 0 0 5 32 0.81 .185 .250

seawolf17 Nov 25 2009 07:11 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

But that one unearned run apparently led to a loss. Tough.

Edgy DC Nov 29 2009 08:59 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

The Detroit Tigers are reporting that Mark Fidrych will be out for about two months with a fractured ankle. It happened after his dog suddenly took off running while he was walking him on a leash. It'd be great if they actually had it in their database that Fidrych 1977 actually had a dog.

seawolf17 Dec 11 2009 11:57 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

My revamped 1991 Mets have hit an early season rough patch. The division rival Pirates just came into town and bitch-slapped us: Game 1: Pirates 9, Mets 4 -- Frank Viola gives up six runs in 4 1/3 innings and we never recover. Game 2: Pirates 7, Mets 1 -- El Sid gives up three in the first (including a Bonds HR) and one in the second. Even though he settles down, rookie Hector Fajardo, making his major league debut, throws a four-hit complete game. Game 3: Pirates 17, Mets 2 -- It's 4-2 Pirates through seven behind a struggling Pete Harnisch (only two hits, but seven walks through six). But Dave Smith (four runs), Alejandro Pena (two runs), and Danny Darwin (one run) give up seven in the eighth and emergency pitcher Casey Candaele walks five and gives up six in the ninth to complete the blowout. So we're 9-10, 4.5 games behind the Cubs (and now two behind Pittsburgh). Day off to recover, then the 12-8 Padres come to town, followed by the 11-8 Giants (and then, mercifully, the last-place Dodgers.) Got tired of watching Andre Dawson flounder, so I flipped him and two minor leaguers to Atlanta for Dave Justice. Tough end for a guy I had high hopes for, but he was OPSing less than .500.

Edgy DC Dec 11 2009 12:03 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

I screwed up my whole league. As the offseason began, I was looking fore help at third. I checked out free agent Mike Schmidt's asking price and accidentally made an offer (at his asking price!). If he accepts, and I expect he will, I'll be like a billion dollars over budget. Can I take over the Phils for 10 minutes and submit a counteroffer?

seawolf17 Dec 29 2009 08:27 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

Things got ugly by mid-season, so I decided to back up the truck. In June, I made a couple of deals: * I packed up angry fireballer Dave Smith (not happy that John Franco was closing and he wasn't) and the rejuvenated Jim Rice and shipped them off to the contending White Sox in exchange for Bobby Thigpen and a few minor leaguers. * I dealt Frankie Viola (2-9, 4.50) to Pittsburgh for Rick Reed and two minor leaguers. * Dwight Gooden, pending free agency and no longer open to discussing an extension, got dealt to Kansas City for 23-year-old Tom Gordon. * HoJo, pending free agency as well, got dealt to the Giants for Rod Beck and minor leaguer Jeff Kent. Alan Trammell was lost for the year in June, so I called up Todd Hundley to catch, slid Biggio to second, Jefferies to third, and HoJo to short; with HoJo now gone to San Francisco, Jose Vizcaino is playing shortstop every day. I signed David Cone (4 years, $4.44 million per year), El Sid (3 years, $666,666 per year) and Vince Coleman (2 years, $1.25 million per year) to extensions. Went on a little bit of a post-trades run, but we're in third place behind the runaway Pirates and Cubs, 21 games back. Joe Magrane, who I called up to replace Viola, is 8-2, 2.66 in twelve starts, which has been encouraging. The bullpen has been lights-out since I retooled: Innis (68 IP, 2.90 ERA) Pena (51 IP, 1.24 ERA) Simons (44 IP, 1.64 ERA) Franco (51 IP, 23 SV, 2.12 ERA) Beck (9 IP, 3 SV, 3.72 ERA since the trade) Thigpen (17 IP, 2 SV, 4.15 ERA since the trade) Wetteland (ugly numbers, but he's a mop-up guy for me since he's out of options and I'm stuck with him) Satisfied with the direction we're headed, although I'm regretting the Coleman extension, since you can't steal first base.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 30 2009 09:25 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

Just loaded this thing on my Mac and figuring it out now. I'm managing a single A Padres affiliate. Think i did something wrong.

seawolf17 Feb 04 2010 11:32 AM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

Well, 1991 fell apart quickly. 71-91, 34 games out. So in the offseason... * Due to clearing out salary during the season, I had a lot of money to play with in the FA market. Signed Chuck Finley (2 years, $3.65 million) and Mark Langston (1 year, $540,000) to shore up the pitching staff before making the big splash: Cal Ripken (4 years, $32 million). * Ripken moved Alan Trammell to third, Jefferies to first. Jeff Kent will play second base for me, moving Biggio back behind the plate and pushing Todd Hundley back down the depth chart. * I had signed Ron Hassey to be my backup catcher, but I didn't want to carry three catchers, so I dealt him on opening day for 23-year-old Denny Neagle. * We had a glut in the outfield, so I dealt Vince Coleman and a prospect to Seattle for Randy Johnson and two scrubs. (The Unit is currently biding his time in Tidewater.) * I extended Casey Candaele (3 years) and Craig Biggio (6 years), and I'm currently negotiating with Pete Harnisch's agent on an extension, even though he's been out since late August with a back injury and won't return until July. * Picked up Al Leiter on waivers from Toronto, then snuck him back through waivers to Tidewater. We're 9-4 to start 1992, so things are looking up. The lineup is being carried by our 2-3-4 guys: Biggio C Ripken SS (.415/.492/.491 through 13 games) Strawberry CF (.362/.446/.787, 6 HR, 14 RBI through 13 games) McReynolds LF (.358/.386/.755, 6 HR, 13 RBI through 13 games) Justice RF Trammell 3B Jefferies 1B Kent 2B The bench is Hundley, Jose Vizcaino, Candaele, Mark Carreon, and Deion Sanders. The rotation is Cone (1-1, 4.15), Magrane (0-1, 3.68), Tom Gordon (2-1, 3.79), Sid Fernandez (2-0, 0.75), and Finley (2-0, 0.64). The bullpen has been solid, with Jeff Innis, Bobby Thigpen, and Alejandro Pena from the right, and Langston and John Franco from the left. (Franco just got hurt, and I called up Pete Schourek.) Rod Beck is 4-for-4 as the "closer," although Franco had three saves before the injury, as I'm playing matchups at the end of the game.

HahnSolo Feb 04 2010 01:08 PM Re: Rebuilding the Mets, 1991 Style

[quote="seawolf17"] * I extended Casey Candaele (3 years)

Words never spoken before or since.