Master Index of Archived Threads
World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils
| Centerfield Oct 19 2009 09:02 AM |
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It's inevitable. I hate baseball.
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| Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2009 09:05 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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We do seem to be careening towards this unhappy matchup. I'm looking into getting a sensory deprivation tank for the duration of the World Series and its immediate aftermath. We've gotten to a point where the Mets need to win the World Series in 2010, 2011, and 2012 to make up for the shit we've had to endure.
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| Edgy DC Oct 19 2009 09:07 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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Should this happen --- and I'm not banking that it will; worms turn and other shoes drop --- I will root for the Phillies as if my son was on the team.
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| metirish Oct 19 2009 09:09 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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I'll happily root for the Phillies if this is the match-up , and like CF I think it's inevitable . The Phillies have the pitching and the offence to beat the MFY's .
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 19 2009 09:15 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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You guys have to get over your resentment of the Phils, tip your hat to them for being excellent opponents, recognize they have an excellent chance to end the MFY season in disgrace and join the good fight for the honor of the National League.
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| Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2009 09:22 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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I don't resent the Phillies, I just don't like being surrounded by their fans, and I'd like those fans to be silenced as soon as possible. (I feel the same way about the Eagles, and I don't give a damn about the NFL at all.) I never hated the Braves, and I wouldn't have any problem with the Phillies either if I didn't live in the Philadelphia market. In my case, anyway, phamiliarity has bred contempt.
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| TransMonk Oct 19 2009 09:23 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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Phuck the Phils. Fuck the Yanks. I have no problem going Randy Newman for a few weeks.
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| MFS62 Oct 19 2009 09:24 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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[quote="Edgy DC":fwfj45g6]Should this happen --- and I'm not banking that it will; worms turn and other shoes drop --- I will root for the Phillies as if my son was on the team.[/quote:fwfj45g6] I wasn't going to cross this bridge until I came to it. But since the topic was opened, I agree with Edgy. The Phillies. The Braves. The Pirates. The Cardinals. The Cubs. Depends on the year, and the Mets' rivals change with the winds. But the Yankees... The Yankees loom there always. Constant as the North Star. It isn't even a glimmer of a thought of a whim that I could ever root for the Yankees. Maybe it is just me, but the thought of the Yankees losing is the second best thing to the Mets winning. It is childish, immature, and very satisfying. I would buy a Phillies hat for my five year old grandson before I would let him see me root for the Yankees. To the Yankees and their fans, Khan said it best, "To the last I will grapple with thee. From hell's heart I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee." Later
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| SteveJRogers Oct 19 2009 10:09 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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[quote="MFS62":30yjv5l2] To the Yankees and their fans, Khan said it best, "To the last I will grapple with thee. From hell's heart I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee." [/quote:30yjv5l2] I believe Captain Ahab said it first though... Or I've been reading way too much into The Wrath of Khan's, and subsequent Trek film's, Moby Dick themes.
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| metsmarathon Oct 19 2009 10:42 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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i'm hoping for seven ugly, embarrassing games that neither team nor fan can hold their head up high about winning.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 19 2009 10:49 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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[quote="metsmarathon":2p3xx1j8]i'm hoping for seven ugly, embarrassing games that neither team nor fan can hold their head up high about winning.[/quote:2p3xx1j8] Rest assured, SOMEONE will hold his head up high about winning those theoretical games. (Judging from the Facebook messages/emails/text messages I've gotten after various gift wins for both teams... folks will LOUDLY hold up said head.) I'm thinking this might achieve the desired result: a hard-fought series, after which the MVP, during his postgame interview by Ken Rosenthal, accidentally lets a gigantic, meaning-can't-be-missed racial/anti-Semitic/homophobic slur, leaving everyone feeling shocked and awkward.
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| willpie Oct 19 2009 11:12 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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I'll be rooting for the Phils. Not thrilled about it or anything, but it's that or punch the next person who says the NL is clearly the inferior league.
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| holychicken Oct 19 2009 11:18 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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This poses a huge personal dilemma for me if, god forbid, it were to come to fruition. One of my best friends from HS and I have always bonded over our identical rooting interests: Mets, Giants, Rangers, Knicks. He is also very open about his rooting interests. Being in Philly, he has learned to hate the Philly teams because of all of the abuse he has taken from rival fans (pretty much across the board). I will be rooting for the Phils to whup on the Yanks. He will be rooting for the opposite. I am not sure our friendship can withstand such stress. :)
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| Frayed Knot Oct 19 2009 01:11 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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[quote="willpie":3irhzcmw]I'll be rooting for the Phils. Not thrilled about it or anything, but it's that or punch the next person who says the NL is clearly the inferior league.[/quote:3irhzcmw] The NL clearly is the inferior league right now although the results of the World Series (or the AS game) has nothing to do with it and won't prove anything one way or the other. Like most things, the larger sample size tells the story and the AL has been getting the better of the in-season inter-league matchups for the last five years now - winning about 55% or so of the time (and in some years over 60%) essentially making it similar to the difference between an upper-80s win team and one winning in the low-mid 70s Which doesn't mean some fans and mediots aren't going way overboard with the idea by both exaggerating the differences* and acting as if this is a gap that's always been there even though from the start of IL games in '97 until about '04 the outcome were near even with an actual slight edge to the NL. And, since these things are usually cyclical, it isn't likely to remain this way either. S * examples of stupidity include: - it's like the difference between the minors and majors - a pitcher moving from the AL to the NL will drop his ERA by like a run and a half
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 19 2009 01:18 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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Youse guys all pooh-pooh my theory, but the fact is there are 50 players in the NL who by definition would be minor leaguers if all magically transferred to the AL. And the NL was dominant in the era when the AL had the extra teams. In other words, this is all the Milwaukee Brewers' fault.
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| metirish Oct 19 2009 01:27 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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The 50 players are? Tatis Murphy Sullivan Misch Parnell Nationals Elijah Dukes Josh Willingham Jorge Padilla A bunch of pitchers from the Nats who else?
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| Frayed Knot Oct 19 2009 01:29 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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They wouldn't "by definition" be minor league players if transfered to the AL because it's not like those players were only picked for MLB jobs after the 28 teams had already filled out their rosters. The two leagues are taking their players from the same pool of talent, not separate ones, and would share in the take if two NL clubs were to suddenly disappear and their talent be dispersed throughout MLB.
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| metirish Oct 19 2009 01:31 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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Ahh, I totally mis-read Dickshots post......never mind me.
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| Ashie62 Oct 19 2009 01:34 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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JCL & Frayed Knot make cogent arguments but it seems only one can be right Damned if I know...But there are 50 pieces of crap in the NL, many in Flushing
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| Benjamin Grimm Oct 19 2009 01:42 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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I'm sure that there are plenty of below-average players in the American League too. I have no idea why the AL currently seems to be stronger, but I can't see how the number of teams in the league would have anything to do with it. Are there more big-spending teams in the AL? Is a high-priced free agent more likely to find an American League suitor? The National League, with more teams, gets more draft picks in each round, so they should be getting more of the good young players, but draft picks are always iffy, and players don't always reach the majors with the team that drafted them, and even if they do, there's no guarantee that they'll remain with that team for long.
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| Frayed Knot Oct 19 2009 02:18 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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I think the arm$ race in recent years between the Yanx & Sawx may have something to do with it with those two setting a standard and the rest trying their best to keep up. But mostly I think it's just something that's cyclical, but neither a long-lasting trend nor a huge difference that should be expected to continue for the foreseeable future.
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| metsmarathon Oct 19 2009 02:27 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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the DH is responsible, to my thinking. when an NL and an AL team play each other, and the DH rule is in effect, the AL's DH has a distinct advantage over the NL's DH. an AL DH is typically a better hitter than the 8th best fielder, whereas the NL's DH is typically the first guy off the bench. without the DH, i guess the NL's pitchers are more accostomed to batting, somewhat, but i don't htink that's much of an increase in ability that we're talking about. i do wonder, having said that... what is the NL's winning percentage in home IL games versus away IL games, and how does that compare to the typically observed homefield advantage? i also wonder what the batting averages of NL pitchers looks like as a whole as compared to that of hte AL pitchers.
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| Chad Ochoseis Oct 19 2009 02:30 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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Derek Jeter makes the league around him better.
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| Frayed Knot Oct 19 2009 02:53 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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The problem with the DH theory is that for the first 7 or so years of IL play it didn't seem to show up, same with all those years of the 70s & 80s when, just by fan consensus, many considered the NL to be the better league. The DH had long made the AL a better hitting league but that's not the same thing as being tops overall.
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| metsmarathon Oct 19 2009 03:13 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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that's a good point. i guess the counter argument is that it took the AL a while to figure out collectively how to best take advantage of that extra hitter spot in terms of building a team. of course, i then went ahead and looked at the data behind my one argument. and, while i admit it's kindof flawed, it is still rather interesting... i looked at what AL pitchers do versus NL pitchers, and at what AL DH's do versus NL DH's. AL pitchers turned in the following line over 278 at bats in 544 games played: 0.094 / 0.125 / 0.129 A/O*/S 22 singles, 4 doubles, 2 homers, 10 walks, 20 runs scored, and 12 runs driven in, with 125 strikeouts NL pitchers turned in teh following line, 0.138 / 0.176 / 0.177 A/O*/S which scaled down to 278 at bats gives us: 31 singles, 6 doubles, 1 homer, 13 walks, 16 runs scored, 15 runs driven in, with 108 strikeouts. for NL DH's, we get the following line in 438 at bats, 0.283 / 0.360 / 0.473 A/O*/S 79 singles, 26 doubles, 19 homers, 53 walks, 54 runs scored, 64 runs driven in, with 89 strikeouts. for AL DH's, we get the following line: 0.256 / 0.335 / 0.444 A/O*/S which scaled down to 438 at bats gives us: 70 singles, 22 doubles, 1 triple, 20 homers, 52 walks, 62 runs scored, 67 runs driven in, with 99 strikeouts. so... i guess... the NL should be getting the distinct advantage here. what the hell was i talking about?! though, the effect of the DH on an NL team is often that a superior offensive player "gets the day off" and plays DH, whereas a lesser offensive player takes his place. so maybe that's the difference. don't even begin to think that i'm about to tackle the answer to that question though! *i treat OBP as (H+BB)/(AB+BB) realizing that there's more that goes into the calculation. its just that those data are typically not on the first page of stats that one finds on web sites, and its not worth finding the SF's and SH's etc that factor into the rest of the equation. their influence is far smaller than hits, walks, and at bats.
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| Edgy DC Oct 20 2009 07:11 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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[quote="metsmarathon":1ptivgt2]though, the effect of the DH on an NL team is often that a superior offensive player "gets the day off" and plays DH, whereas a lesser offensive player takes his place.[/quote:1ptivgt2] Important point.
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| soupcan Oct 20 2009 07:20 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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[quote="Benjamin Grimm"]We've gotten to a point where the Mets need to win the World Series in 2010, 2011, and 2012 to make up for the shit we've had to endure. |
| Frayed Knot Oct 20 2009 07:33 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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Back to the original topic of discussion, the two LA teams came within one out of crapping all over the pessimistic predetermination theme of this thread. As it is they half made things more interesting and count me among those who'll have no reservations pulling for the NL side if this is indeed the final match-up so I consider last night's outcome to be the better half of what could have been. MFY fans were already talking about the possibility - the probability in some cases - of an 11-game clean sweep to the crown.
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| metsmarathon Oct 20 2009 09:22 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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[quote="Edgy DC":fqqtoc5q][quote="metsmarathon":fqqtoc5q]though, the effect of the DH on an NL team is often that a superior offensive player "gets the day off" and plays DH, whereas a lesser offensive player takes his place.[/quote:fqqtoc5q] Important point.[/quote:fqqtoc5q] and now i've caught myself trying to figure out how to figure it out. curse me! would the best approach be to look at who filled in for that player? well... i looked at who the NL team's DH was, and what his regular position is - all i did was click his name, and the position that comes up on ESPN is the one i chose - and compiled the stats of the guy playing there. so when beltran was our DH, and jeremy reed played CF, i looked at his stats in those games. when sheff was the DH, i'd look to see that fartinez played left in those games, and took his stats. what i found is that the player who fills in for the NL DH's regular position, gave us a line of 0.234 / 0.278 / 0.369 A/O*/S in 461 at bats, he compiled 108 base hits, for 170 total bases, with 28 walks, 102 strikeouts, 50 runs scored, and 43 runs driven in. though the NL's DH seems to outperform the AL's DH, because the NL is often using the DH as a rest spot for a better hitter, an inferior hitter takes his place in the field. that player might often be on teh roster more for his glove than his bat. as a result, the batter that is inserted into the lineup is far worse than the AL's DH than the NL's DH is better than the AL's. does that last sentence make sense? NL DH's replacement OPS is 0.647 AL DH OPS is 0.779 NL DH OPS is 0.833 i think when you consider the advantage the NL's pitchers have over the AL's, the overall effect might average out, though.
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| metsmarathon Oct 20 2009 09:22 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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yeah, i think i'd be rooting for the phillies to come out on top... NL East uber alles!
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| Chad Ochoseis Oct 20 2009 09:38 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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| Fman99 Oct 20 2009 10:11 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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To me this is a proximity thing. I know way more Yanqui fans than Phillie fans and therefore I would be (or will be) rooting hard for Philly to beat the MFYs. If I lived in Philly like BG then I'd probably want the MFYs to win (shudder), just to shut up the local yokels.
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| Fman99 Oct 20 2009 10:14 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":flamxok9][quote="metsmarathon":flamxok9]i'm hoping for seven ugly, embarrassing games that neither team nor fan can hold their head up high about winning.[/quote:flamxok9] Rest assured, SOMEONE will hold his head up high about winning those theoretical games. (Judging from the Facebook messages/emails/text messages I've gotten after various gift wins for both teams... folks will LOUDLY hold up said head.) I'm thinking this might achieve the desired result: a hard-fought series, after which the MVP, during his postgame interview by Ken Rosenthal, accidentally lets a gigantic, meaning-can't-be-missed racial/anti-Semitic/homophobic slur, leaving everyone feeling shocked and awkward.[/quote:flamxok9] Or, like last year, a lot of night games, deep into November, with long rain/snow/hail/brimstone delays that set the outcomes so late into the early morning that no one who doesn't give a damn will even care at that point.
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| Benjamin Grimm Oct 20 2009 10:15 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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I do want to shut up the local yokels, but a Yankees World Series victory is a price that's much more steep than I'm willing to pay. I picked up a used sensory deprivation tank on eBay. I'll just stay in there until the World Series (and the parade) are over.
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| metsmarathon Oct 20 2009 12:07 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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[quote="Mendoza Line"]
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| Vic Sage Oct 20 2009 01:58 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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i like the idea of a scandal that disgraces both franchises for years to come. But i'll only hear about it weeks later, when i've turned my attention back to baseball during the "hot stove league".
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| Ceetar Oct 20 2009 03:42 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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This sucks. I want to stick my guns and say these two teams aren't good enough for that. That Jeter is overrated, that Melky, Swisher and Damon aren't exactly scary, and that Pettitte is old and A.J. can't get it done. But they keep succeeding. bastards. I credit it to rest, which I find to be one of Mets frequent mistakes. they shut down some of their young bullpen guys when they could. They skipped a start here, and an extra day there, for Pettitte, who very well may have worn down otherwise. The Sox fading kept them from having to push. Posada could DH (stupid junior circuit) and rest. Rollins we know isn't that good, and Howard is susceptible to most lefties. Their bullpen stinks, Hamels has been average, and Cliff Lee can't do it all. Their lineup is deep with Ibanez, but Ruiz and Feliz aren't gods by any stretch, and good pitching is supposed to take care of that. (weren't the Dodgers supposed to have some of that? bah!) I want to stab myself in an eye. Top that off with some of these games being infuriating. Especially the Yankees with their slow-down tactics and throws to first, and catcher visits. Both managers make so many pitching changes I feel like George Lopez plays for the Phillies I see him so much. But I would have to prefer (notice, not root/pick/want) the Phillies. There will be no Phillies fans at thanksgiving dinner. I won't see them regularly on trains or bars or in the supermarket. They're still the team with 10000 losses, and their success would only make next season more exciting and heighten the rivalry and whatnot.
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| Ceetar Oct 20 2009 03:44 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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| G-Fafif Oct 20 2009 03:58 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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[quote="Ceetar":46830tt4]I want to stab myself in an eye.[/quote:46830tt4] Don't do that. Your avatar already appears to be dealing with optical issues.
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| Edgy DC Oct 20 2009 08:04 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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[quote="Ceetar":3kdeo4ld]I credit it to rest, which I find to be one of Mets frequent mistakes.[/quote:3kdeo4ld] Way-wait... what does this have to do with the Mets? Delgado and Reyes, for example, rested three quarters of the season.
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| Ceetar Oct 20 2009 09:48 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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[quote="Edgy DC":qtvocbkx][quote="Ceetar":qtvocbkx]I credit it to rest, which I find to be one of Mets frequent mistakes.[/quote:qtvocbkx] Way-wait... what does this have to do with the Mets? Delgado and Reyes, for example, rested three quarters of the season.[/quote:qtvocbkx] You're right! Manuel's a genius! I fully contribute the months of rest to Reyes' successful surgery. Way to get him prepared for it. Since everyone was injured this year it's hard to really say anything. I felt like Santana could've used a couple extra days here in there when he was laboring in June. And look, the Mets rested Pelfrey by having him skip his last start! They rested their young arm in Parnell by putting him into the rotation where they got him of the game faster than when he was relieving!
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 20 2009 10:41 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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Hitler or Stalin? Stalin or Hitler? I think I'll root for Stalin over there, with the cheesesteaks.
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| Ashie62 Oct 20 2009 11:27 PM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":2clcrqoc]Hitler or Stalin? Stalin or Hitler? I think I'll root for Stalin over there, with the cheesesteaks.[/quote:2clcrqoc] Dangerous territory
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| Rockin' Doc Oct 21 2009 11:14 AM Re: World Series Thread - MFY's vs. Phils |
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The baseball apocalypse draws nearer with each LCS game played. I'm really starting to loathe baseball (or at least this post-season).
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