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Daniel Murphy in 2010

Vic Sage Oct 07 2009 08:35 AM

for those who took some comfort in Mr. Murphy's 2nd half production, here's an interesting article: http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/10/7/1 ... ?ref=yahoo the thesis of which was, in an overreaction to bad luck in 1st half, Murphy started swinging at everything. He had better production on inside fastballs, but his hacking cost him OB% and likely doesn't set him up well for next season.

metirish Oct 07 2009 08:44 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

His lack of walks was certainly a talking point at this board...Dickshot was all over it just to name one person. That aspect of his game was just one of the problems that was apparent in his game over the season though.

Ashie62 Oct 07 2009 08:58 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

[quote="metirish":2kdtufov]His lack of walks was certainly a talking point at this board...Dickshot was all over it just to name one person. That aspect of his game was just one of the problems that was apparent in his game over the season though.[/quote:2kdtufov] Muffy is the odds on favorite for 2010 Mets 1B I'm not happy about it, but will hope for the best

smg58 Oct 07 2009 09:18 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

Even without the walks, his second half was much better than his first. Given the fact that he was in AA as recently as July 08 and never saw AAA, that's actually encouraging. He's shown plenty of patience in the past, so I'd wager that with work he'd get that part of his game back. But like I've said before, I think Murphy's best chance for a future as an everyday player will come at his natural position, third base. Which, for better or worse, means some place other than here.

Edgy DC Oct 07 2009 09:27 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

Things happen in fits and starts. Power here, patience there, power here, oops forgot the patience. Eventually, they put it all together or they don't. The key is finding the ones with the best chance of putting it together and getting the best roster of alternatives in place. The key to me, anyhow. He led the team in homers, so you can't right him off willy-nilly. I wish Jerry found a handful of at-bats for him at second. My vision of him was as a poly-positional substitute, and I think they helped dig a hole for him by planting him in leftfield, but even had he started with my plan, he still would have gravitated toward first when everybody went down.

TransMonk Oct 07 2009 09:30 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

I've got no problem with Murph. He is so young and had to step up much more than anticipated in 2009. I don't think he is going to be a superstar 1B, but I do think he can be good enough. There are too many holes on this team and seemingly not enough cash to worry about Murphy. As long as he doesn't have to be our cleanup hitter next year, I think he should bounce back and provide better numbers.

metirish Oct 07 2009 09:32 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

I'm sure I am wrong but I just don't think Murphy has good baseball instincts , still though I hate to judge him on this season with the way things played out.

Edgy DC Oct 07 2009 09:40 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

I think his instincts are fine. He's a hitter and lacks polish in the field. Ted Williams was the best leftfielder of all time (if you take the drugs away from Bonds, anyhow), and he never gave a fig about defense. Murphy isn't Williams on his best day, but he showed some giddyup at first, as well as some struggles. He can certainly be good enough on defense that his bat can cover what deficiencies remain. A key is to stay with him, keep him engaged. The funny thing about guys like Kingman and Dick Stuart is that they usually start off their careers as promising young athletes (Kingman was one of the best all-round athletes the Mets had had to that point), but once they develop a defensive reputation that invites scorn, they can disengage, stick to what they're good at, and chuck what they're bad at, and become quite limted players. I don't think Murphy will go that way, but he could if too much shit is made of it when he does screw up.

metirish Oct 07 2009 09:43 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

Murphy at times acted like his head was frozen....so in that respect he's a bit like Ted.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 07 2009 09:45 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

He's part of the problem inasmuch as the Mets are a shitty home run hitting team and he's not a home run hitter, wherever he plays. I think he's destined to be a Ty Wigginton type whose bat is just dangerous enough to fill a position until a better guy comes along at that position. So for the Mets he's part of the first-base rotation till Davis shows up.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 07 2009 10:01 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

It's still possible, although probably not likely, that Carlos Delgado will be the guy to hold first base until Ike Davis is ready. In that case, Murphy will become Ty Wigginton (or Joe McEwing) all the sooner.

Edgy DC Oct 07 2009 10:35 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

And there are other guys who fit the "doesn't hit homers" definition more neatly than he does, team leader and all. He's young, and like Segui, Keppinger, or McEwing, learning to turn on big league pitches may come.

Number 6 Oct 07 2009 11:39 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

He's young, but I don't see how Murphy's bat will ever carry 1B, and his defense is so bad elsewhere that he doesn't have the versatility to make him a good bench player, either. I'm afraid he's more likely to earn a roster spot on the island of misfit toys than on a championship-caliber ballclub.

Number 6 Oct 07 2009 11:44 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

[quote="Edgy DC":2ywltsoj]And there are other guys who fit the "doesn't hit homers" definition more neatly than he does, team leader and all. He's young, and like Segui, Keppinger, or McEwing, learning to turn on big league pitches may come.[/quote:2ywltsoj] Keppinger and McEwing can play multiple defensive positions passably which, together with a decent stick, defines their value. If he learns to hit like Segui then I'm all for him, but I think it's a bad risk for the Mets to plug him in as an ML regular at the game's best power position to find out.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 07 2009 11:49 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

I see his value as a guy who can flit between 1B, 2B (I hope), 3B, and LF, maybe accumulating about 300 plate appearances during the season. I think, for the short term, the Mets will be asking him to do more than that. If he rises to the occasion, then good for him. And if he doesn't, then the experiment won't last too long. I'm hoping that he's not anointed the starting LF or 1B over the winter. I want better options at each position. (Especially left field.) One way to judge how this off-season has gone is to see what kind of a role Daniel Murphy will have as he heads for spring training.

Edgy DC Oct 07 2009 11:53 AM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

1) I meant Wiggie and don't know why I typed McEwing. 2) I tried to make clear that I think plugging in is almost always a mistake. Make a young guy earn shit. It puts the right type of pressure (do better and more will be given unto you) on and takes the wrong type of pressure (do better in order to justify what you've been given, lest you be criticized, stripped, and shamed) off. 3) It may be the best power position (I don't know how left and right stack up) but the Mets have never had anybody fit that bill like Delgado has, which is why I'm in no hurry to write him off.

Number 6 Oct 07 2009 12:10 PM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

[quote="Edgy DC":205cvn4r]1) I meant Wiggie and don't know why I typed McEwing.[/quote:205cvn4r] Makes sense. He's much more like a Wigginton than a Keppinger or McEwing, though he has a ways to go to match up to Ty. [quote="Edgy DC":205cvn4r]2) I tried to make clear that I think plugging in is almost always a mistake.[/quote:205cvn4r] I was expressing my own opinion rather than disagreeing with you on this point. [quote="Edgy DC":205cvn4r]Make a young guy earn shit. It puts the right type of pressure (do better and more will be given unto you) on and takes the wrong type of pressure (do better in order to justify what you've been given, lest you be criticized, stripped, and shamed) off.[/quote:205cvn4r] I also don't necessarily disagree with you here, but that has to be balanced against how you can reasonably expect that player to develop, and what it potentially costs to the team during the learning curve. Murphy has the potential to cost a team like next year's Mets, which I think you can optimistically expect to be on the cusp. Part of it depends on what the Mets do in the offseason; if they invest heavily in LF and an upgrade elsewhere I could live with Murphy being given a chance to fail, but a suitable back-up needs to be in the picture. [quote="Edgy DC":205cvn4r]3) It may be the best power position (I don't know how left and right stack up) but the Mets have never had anybody fit that bill like Delgado has, which is why I'm in no hurry to write him off.[/quote:205cvn4r] Not sure I understand... I'm assuming you mean writing Murphy off, not Delgado. It's not that I'm in a hurry to write Murphy off, if he develops into a Segui or a Wigginton, which is certainly in his range, then he's a useful player on a good team. Personally, I'd rather see him explore his potential on both sides of the ball in AAA and sign a reasonably-priced alternative (Blalock, Johnson, LaRoche). I'm not sure it's fair to expect Murphy or any of these alternatives to match Delgado, but I do think that several of them would compare favorable to Murphy, which is all that really matters.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 07 2009 12:12 PM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

I read it as Edgy not wanting to write Delgado off. I agree with that. I hope they consider bringing Carlos back, if the price is right. (To guarantee him $11 million, for example, would be foolish, but to give him a deal where he'd earn $11 million if he hits 35 homers and drives in 125 runs is another story.)

Number 6 Oct 07 2009 12:17 PM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

I'd agree with that. $11 million may be steep, incentives or not, but I am with you on the principle.

Edgy DC Oct 07 2009 12:24 PM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

[quote="Number 6":147vc4hb]I also don't necessarily disagree with you here.... Part of it depends on what the Mets do in the offseason; if they invest heavily in LF and an upgrade elsewhere I could live with Murphy being given a chance to fail, but a suitable back-up needs to be in the picture.[/quote:147vc4hb] I don't want him to be given a chance to fail. I want him to be given a part-time role that can grow if he progresses (or another disaster strikes), shrink if he fails, and disappear if he fails a lot. I'm with Grimm here. [quote="Number 6":147vc4hb]Not sure I understand... I'm assuming you mean writing Murphy off, not Delgado.[/quote:147vc4hb] No, this time I typed who I meant. Delgado. He's a rare bird (at least for the Mets), even with his age, his injury last year, and his struggles in 2007.

Centerfield Oct 07 2009 12:29 PM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

The Mets may not have gotten much power from first, but during my tenure as a fan, they've either made up for it with firepower coming from the catcher spot, or been a bad team. Murphy at first is fine if they get a legitimate cleanup hitter in LF, and trade Castillo for Chase Utley. But this is not likely to happen, so the Mets should look for power anywhere they can and not commit to role players in those slots. The problem with this team is that we are already locked in at many spots in the lineup. 1. Reyes 2. Castilllo (probably, unless they can move him) 3. Wright 4. 5. Beltran 6. 7. 8. Catcher (Santos, Thole, FA) So this leaves only 3 spots left (LF, RF, 1B). The brightside is that these are all good places to find thumpers for the lineup. The problem is that we already have two players under control for those positions and I do not feel comfortable with either player hitting higher than 7th. So Omar will be faced with upgrading 2 of those positions, and then keeping either Franceour or Murphy.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 07 2009 12:35 PM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

My sense is that the Mets are more locked in at right field (with Francoeur) than they are at catcher.

Edgy DC Oct 07 2009 12:50 PM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

My sense is that having a commitment to Reyes, Beltran, and Wright isn't really the problem.

TheOldMole Oct 07 2009 12:56 PM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

I don't think they're locked in a catcher, I don't think Francouer is a bad solution -- he could be very good -- and Murphy's at heart a disciplined hitter -- I think he can work on hitting for power. Also, we seem to be playing in a first-to-third ballbark and developing a first-to-third team may not be the worst thing in the world.

Number 6 Oct 07 2009 01:25 PM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

[quote="Edgy DC":5i13tfsw]I don't want him to be given a chance to fail. I want him to be given a part-time role that can grow if he progresses (or another disaster strikes), shrink if he fails, and disappear if he fails a lot. I'm with Grimm here.[/quote:5i13tfsw] OK, I misunderstood your position. To be honest, I'm not sure that Murphy has the stick right now to be even the strong side of a 1B platoon, and without the defensive flexibility, he doesn't help the bench that much. Personally I'd rather see him getting regular reps at the plate and at a few different defensive positions in AAA. But I understand your point. [quote="Edgy DC":5i13tfsw]No, this time I typed who I meant. Delgado. He's a rare bird (at least for the Mets), even with his age, his injury last year, and his struggles in 2007.[/quote:5i13tfsw] I agree, I'd like to see him back if they can work out something reasonable. If not, there are quite a few other reasonable options out there.

Ashie62 Oct 07 2009 03:07 PM Re: Daniel Murphy in 2010

[quote="metirish":vvjzmz8n]Murphy at times acted like his head was frozen....so in that respect he's a bit like Ted.[/quote:vvjzmz8n] The noive