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Can't Find The Thread

MFS62 Oct 08 2009 07:42 AM

where someone mentioned that there could be no deals announced until after the World Series. But, in today's Yahoo sports, it was announced that the Mets have obtained Chris Carter from the Red Sox to complete the Billy Wagner deal. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/trans;_ylt= ... qUEIIRvLYF Later

Benjamin Grimm Oct 08 2009 07:48 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

It's the October 4 IGT. [quote="MFS62"][quote="bmfc1"]NYPost_Mets Jerry Manuel was in meetings all morning and said he expects an announcement tomorrow on changes and the team's offseason plans.

In the post game interview on SNY he said "announcements will be made tomorrow about the coaches".
Personally, I would prefer that he announce a blockbuster trade or three.
But I'm not going to hold my breath.

Later

[quote="Benjamin Grimm"]You're not going to see trades announced on October 5.

There won't be any trades to speak of until after the World Series ends.

Clearly not the same thing. Naming the "player to be named" is hardly a blockbuster.

Centerfield Oct 08 2009 07:52 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

So it really was Carter. Wasn't he released? Did we really trade Wagner (the draft picks we would have gotten anyway) for a guy we could have picked up for free?

Frayed Knot Oct 08 2009 07:54 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Carter was only blocked from being announced at the time because a team (the Yanx as it turned out) put in a waiver claim on him preventing him from being part of any trade at that time. Now that the waiver period has expired the Sox were free to announce him as the completion of a deal which had not only already happened but did so with the guy everyone knew was part of it all along.

MFS62 Oct 08 2009 07:56 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

The key point is that it shows that I knew there wasn't a moritorium on all transaction announcements during that time, as some may have said in that thread. The "blockbuster" was wishful thinking. Later

Edgy DC Oct 08 2009 08:00 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

It doesn't really show anything. Clearly this is an exceptional case regarding a months-old transaction and the announcement preceded the start of the playoffs.

metirish Oct 08 2009 08:02 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Official release Outfielder Chris Carter and First Baseman Eddie Lora Acquired from Boston to complete Billy Wagner trade. Lora, 20, hit .222 (22-99) with nine runs scored, six doubles, two triples, three home runs and seven RBI in 34 games with the Gulf Coast Red Sox this year. Lora, who was born in New York City and resides in Santo Domingo, DR, was named Boston's Minor League Latin Program Player of the Year in 2008. Last year he hit .300 (36-120) with 21 runs scored, six doubles, one triple, five home runs and 26 RBI in 35 games with the Dominican Summer League Red Sox. The 6-2, 205-pounder was signed by the Red Sox as a non-drafted free agent on July 24, 2006. He cracked four home runs and drove in 19 runs while hitting .222 (48-216) in 2007 for the Dominican Summer League squad.

Frayed Knot Oct 08 2009 08:03 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

I don't know that there's any 'official' moratorium on deals at this time of year. But with existing player contracts not expiring until the WS is over, and the FA and non-tender dates following shortly thereafter (not to mention that more than 1/4 of the teams in the league have other things on their minds right now) very little goes on at this time of year as teams want to wait and see who'll be available on the open market prior to dealing away live bodies. There was that edict issued by whoever the commish was at the time when Steinbrenner - pouting because his team wasn't in the series - decided to steal the back-page headlines in NYC by hiring (or was it firing? ... or both?) a manager on the eve of a WS Game 7. Since then teams are "encouraged" not to make major announcements during post-season play or to schedule such things for off days.

Edgy DC Oct 08 2009 08:06 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Lora is a strapping and slugging firstbaseman. Projectable and intriguing but not much track record.

MFS62 Oct 08 2009 08:08 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

[quote="Edgy DC":36wu3am7]It doesn't really show anything. Clearly this is an exceptional case regarding a months-old transaction and the announcement preceded the start of the playoffs.[/quote:36wu3am7] And that is precidely the point I made in that thread. (I still can't find it - this is from memory). Somebody said that there could be no announcements made that Monday until after the World Series. I said that because there was going to be another Al game the following day, the "playoffs" had not begun yet. Therefore, in theory, a transaction could have been announced. Then I went on to use the announced completion of the Wagner deal as an example. I was right. On all counts. Q.E.D. Later

Edgy DC Oct 08 2009 08:14 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Yes, you're right on all counts about something somebody said somewhere you can't find. Let's talk about the deal.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 08 2009 08:17 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Especially since I posted the actual text above and it's nothing like what MFS62 is saying he was 100 per cent correct about.

metirish Oct 08 2009 08:20 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

We have a few young prospects now for first-base, that's promising

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 08 2009 08:25 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Clearly not the same thing. Naming the "player to be named" is hardly a blockbuster. Particularly since the the announcement itself was subject to a procedural timing -- the 10-day period during which the Sox were obligated to trade Carter following his designation.

MFS62 Oct 08 2009 08:27 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

.[quote="Edgy DC":3hnqnqru]Yes, you're right on all counts about something somebody said somewhere you can't find. Let's talk about the deal.[/quote:3hnqnqru] Well, apparently Ben was able to find it, because he posted a quote from it. Let him post the link. Then read the entire thread. The points I was supporting were later in the thread. Later

Benjamin Grimm Oct 08 2009 08:28 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

I already told you what thread it was in. You can post the link yourself. I've spent enough time on this nonsense.

metirish Oct 08 2009 08:29 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Edgy DC Oct 08 2009 08:36 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Some sources have this announcement dropped as early as 10/3. There was no mention of MFS62 in the Mets press release.

MFS62 Oct 08 2009 08:40 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

[quote="Edgy DC":b1nm71mr]Some sources have this announcement dropped as early as 10/3. There was no mention of MFS62 in the Mets press release.[/quote:b1nm71mr] LOL! But here's the link. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12617 I was referring to the posts at the bottom of page 1. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 08 2009 08:48 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

No offense, but this thread is like watching Steve Trachsel watching paint dry.

metirish Oct 08 2009 08:56 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

An inauspicious start to Lora and Carter's Met careers I'd say.....

attgig Oct 08 2009 09:03 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

SOOOO!!!! (i think this thread needs a split. one arguing about the other thread, and another talking about the prospects.) how about that Carter and Lora? I don't understand why we wanted Carter... i suppose he's going to be our 5th OF'er next year? the 2010 version of sheffield? no defense, but power off the bat? Or will he take over at 1b over daniel murphy? as much as i don't like murph, i think carter would be a worse candidate... Lora on the other hand, 20 year old kid, is so young and the scouting reports show he has good power potential. worth the risk. all in all, i guess they'll be as good as the 2 compensatory picks we would've gotten. but yeah, carter...it seems like Minaya always has his one power guy off the bench.... some just more bonafide than others.

Edgy DC Oct 08 2009 09:22 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

He might be the platoon partner for Murphy that Evans hasn't developed into. Or at least compete with Evans for that role. Lunchbucket certainly sees him that way.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 08 2009 09:26 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

[quote="Edgy DC":3tamsike]He might be the platoon partner for Murphy that Evans hasn't developed into. Or at least compete with Evans for that role. Lunchbucket certainly sees him that way.[/quote:3tamsike] Carter's a righty or lefty-smacking-lefty? Haven't looked in a bit, but I could've sworn he was a lefty, with the usual platoon split.

Edgy DC Oct 08 2009 09:27 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

He is a lefty. That knocks that idea out.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 08 2009 09:28 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Well, Carter is a LH hitter. My understanding of him is that he's one of those guys they can't find a place for on the field but who acrries a mean-ass bat. I would see him challenging Muffy for a role, with the "loser" being the LH bench-bat threat or trade bait. I'm not sure if Evans failed to develop into anything; they didn't much let him do anything. There must be more to his mental state of mind or something... someone needs to get that story. I like first basemen named Eddie.

MFS62 Oct 08 2009 09:34 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Here are Carter's numbers. http://www.baseball-reference.com/minor ... rter003wil The power is there. Later

Edgy DC Oct 08 2009 09:35 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

[quote="John Cougar Lunchbucket":wvxvq4q1]I like first basemen named Eddie.[/quote:wvxvq4q1] Murray, Kranepool, um... Bressoud?

metirish Oct 08 2009 09:36 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Carter has played first base quite a bit in the minors 340 games which is the most of any position he has played.. http://www.baseball-reference.com/minor ... rter003wil

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 08 2009 09:39 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

81 GiDP in 6 seasons. Don't stand too close, first-base coach-- you might get scorched in the afterburn! You think any of the catchers he's stolen on are still alive and catching?

Edgy DC Oct 08 2009 09:51 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Guy studied pre-med human biology at Stanford. Seems like a fun guy to have around.

metirish Oct 08 2009 09:53 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

And with this training staff a player needs to have that kind of education.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 08 2009 10:18 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

[quote="Edgy DC":ttfbb2wt]Guy studied pre-med human biology at Stanford. Seems like a fun guy to have around.[/quote:ttfbb2wt] New clubhouse nickname: "Second Opinion."

metirish Oct 08 2009 10:24 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":14cqucsv][quote="Edgy DC":14cqucsv]Guy studied pre-med human biology at Stanford. Seems like a fun guy to have around.[/quote:14cqucsv] New clubhouse nickname: "Second Opinion."[/quote:14cqucsv] Or Noah Val?

attgig Oct 08 2009 01:44 PM Re: Can't Find The Thread

accordding to this, he likes RF: http://news.soxprospects.com/2009/08/q- ... arter.html (though he also did say, he'll love whatever position gets him the most playing time)

The Second Spitter Oct 09 2009 04:21 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

[quote="attgig":dfxliyjx] all in all, i guess they'll be as good as the 2 compensatory picks we would've gotten.[/quote:dfxliyjx] They would have been first-rounders, no? So I would probably say, no.

Edgy DC Oct 09 2009 07:49 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Sort of. One would be from the back end of the first round, and the other a sandwich pick. (If the Mets offered him arbitration and if Wagner followed through on his intention to reject.) We certainly might have a better chance of hitting the jackpot with two draftees, but I don't know that the average of two such picks looks much different than these two a few years down the road.)

Vic Sage Oct 09 2009 08:40 AM Re: Can't Find The Thread

i go back and forth on this, whether the players we got either (1) fill immediate needs, or (2) have a higher potential to help long-term, then the 2 draft picks. ultimately, my distrust of Mets decision-making may make me favor Boston draft picks over our own; but their willingness to give them up for Wagner, and our willingness to TAKE them, makes them equally suspect. damn. This is like that scene in PRINCESS BRIDE with Wally Shawn: "never engage in a battle of wits with a Sicilian when death is on the line".

Kong76 Oct 09 2009 12:30 PM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Was this thread started because I said no big deals would be done until after Thanksgiving or something? I'm not seeing much at the bottom of page one of the thread in question.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 09 2009 12:40 PM Re: Can't Find The Thread

Yeah, the origin of this thread is bizarre. MFS62 claims that he was right in pointing out that there's no ban on October trades, but nobody ever said there was such a ban, and he never said that there wasn't a ban. I simply said not to expect anything significant to happen until after the World Series, and then you (talking to Kong76 here) said pretty much the same thing, only you gave Thanksgiving as the date. This, somehow, got MFS62 to get huffy and post an "I told you so" when he actually didn't. As I said, bizarre.

Frayed Knot Oct 09 2009 01:05 PM Re: Can't Find The Thread

[quote="Triple Dee":mh47z05o][quote="attgig":mh47z05o] all in all, i guess they'll be as good as the 2 compensatory picks we would've gotten.[/quote:mh47z05o] They would have been first-rounders, no? So I would probably say, no.[/quote:mh47z05o] We don't know that they'll even be that high. - has it even been confirmed yet that Wagner will be a 'Type A'? - and even if that's so, the compensation will depend on which team signs him and when, plus what other FAs they might sign. Milwaukee lost CC last year and got picks #39 & #73 out of it. Jays snagged only #37 & #104 for Burnett - and mostly, this process doesn't happen unless and until they offer Wagner something like a one-year $12mil arbitration offer and hope that he turns that down