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Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 25 2009 08:25 AM

[quote="Marty Noble":2qlo2mfo]I like the idea of Cameron, and so do the Mets. [/quote:2qlo2mfo] http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/articl ... p&c_id=nym Kevin D., of Hunlock Creek, Pa., suggests that the Mets might bring back Mike Cameron, and Marty Noble hints that the Mets have considered the idea. I assume that would give us, if it happened, an outfield of Cameron, Beltran, and Francoeur. Cameron hit .250/.340/.448 with the Brewers last year, with 24 homers in 149 games, and he earned $10 million. He'll turn 37 on January 8, 2010. Clearly, he's not any kind of a long-term answer. Signing him to a one-year contract would, I guess, defer the left field issue for another year, perhaps when there's a better free agent class, or until Fernando Martinez might be more ready. This isn't the best idea I've heard, but if Cameron is a lower-cost option that allows them to spend more at first base or pitching, then it might fit in as part of a decent bigger plan. But as much as I like Cameron, I can't get excited over this. Thoughts?

metirish Oct 25 2009 08:34 AM Re: Marty Nobles likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

He wouldn't be the worst signing but they can do better can't they?, with the few OF free agents out there singing Cameron would signal they have no interest in long term options. Would that be their thinking ?

Mex17 Oct 25 2009 08:46 AM Re: Marty Nobles likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

It's a cheap-skate, half-assed way of implementing the Carl Crawford solution without actually having to spend on the real Carl Crawford.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 25 2009 10:00 AM Re: Marty Nobles likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

I didn't realize Crawford was a free agent. (I thought he'd have to be traded for, but according to this list, Crawford, like Cameron, is a Type B free agent this winter: http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2001/0 ... gents.html Crawford is more than eight years younger than Cameron. I'd much rather see the Mets sign Crawford to a multi-year. That would allow Martinez to perhaps displace Francoeur in a year or two, or get traded to fill some other need.

bmfc1 Oct 25 2009 10:17 AM Re: Marty Nobles likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

I'm not discounting the idea--it doesn't take much to upgrade the Mets LF spot--but he strikes out 150 times a year. With Francoeur in right, don't the Mets have enough big K guys? http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... html?redir Also, can he play LF? He hasn't played a corner OF spot since he was a Met (and we know what happened in SD).

Frayed Knot Oct 25 2009 10:20 AM Re: Marty Nobles likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

Carlos Beltran thinks re-acquiring Cameron is a smashing idea!! Carl Crawford has a $10mil club option for 2010 -- so unless that's already been declined/bought out he is NOT a FA at this moment and would still require a trade. P.S. Some of those questions in the Marty Noble column may have just permanently broken the dumbpth-o-meter

Rockin' Doc Oct 25 2009 04:02 PM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

I would love to see Crawford suiting up as the Mets left fielder and batting second (behind Reyes) next season. However, if the Rays have a team option for next year, I can't believe they will pass on that and let him slip away as a free agent. If the Mets could sign Cameron for next season, I would consider putting him in center field and moving Beltran to left in order to save some wear and tear on his knees. Of course, I would want to know if Carlos was on board with such an idea be fore seriously pursuing Cameron. I doubt that Beltran would be very fond of a position switch though.

Edgy DC Oct 25 2009 08:03 PM Re: Marty Nobles likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

[quote="Mex17":2uwbwqdn]It's a cheap-skate, half-assed way of implementing the Carl Crawford solution without actually having to spend on the real Carl Crawford.[/quote:2uwbwqdn] Come on. (1) It's currently just a thought. (2) Crawford isn't yet on the table. (3) Nothing about the Mets' payroll indicates cheap-skateness. (4) There's an argument for the benefits of half-assedness, or at least not over-committing long term when a short-term solution may be wiser.

Nymr83 Oct 25 2009 09:31 PM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

I'm not discounting the idea--it doesn't take much to upgrade the Mets LF spot--but he strikes out 150 times a year. With Francoeur in right, don't the Mets have enough big K guys? the brewers had a team a few years back that struck out alot, maybe even a record. Neyer did a study showing that it didn't cost them runs when compared to other teams that had the same obp/slg.etc but made their outs in other ways.

Frayed Knot Oct 25 2009 09:41 PM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

The diff between Cameron and Francoeur is that Cammy always takes his walks. His BA is never very high but his OBA will be 90 - 100 points above that. Frenchie's will be around 25 - 30 (lg avg usually hangs around 65 - 70) Most 'Runs Created' stats and similar metrics suggest that making a large pct of your outs via Ks just barely limits offensive output (all other things being equal).

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 26 2009 10:09 AM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

As pointed out above, Cammy takes his walks. Unless Beltran makes an offseason recovery that's of a hey-this-fresco's-crying-blood sort of miraculous... he may also be a better CF option at this point (taking into account that a full season of Beltran there looks iffier by the week). Taking defense and baserunning into account, Fangraphs likes him almost as much as Holliday, and a good deal more than Bay. Vague retread-y waft aside, so do I.

Ashie62 Oct 26 2009 11:09 AM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

I'll take Holiday, Bay or that new Frankenstein poster..Red Sox will sign Bay Nothing against Cameron but I get nervous when players do their second semester at Mets University. Didn't even work for Seaver

Edgy DC Oct 26 2009 11:17 AM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

The problem is that with other teams bidding on him as a centerfielder, and fangraphs measuring him as a centerfielder, but the Mets entering negotiations as a team that might have use for him as a centerfielder, they'd likely have to overpay to secure him --- unless they're ready to commit before the season to the radical dynamic shift by moving Beltran to another position.

Ashie62 Oct 26 2009 11:36 AM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

[quote="Edgy DC"]The problem is that with other teams bidding on him as a centerfielder, and fangraphs measuring him as a centerfielder, but the Mets entering negotiations as a team that might have use for him as a centerfielder, they'd likely have to overpay to secure him --- unless they're ready to commit before the season to the radical dynamic shift by moving Beltran to another position.

True...Any serious questions about Beltrans ability to play CF would come long after these players are signed..

Oh hell..Don't the Devil Rays need money and cheap players by now??? Tell them Fmart is the next Crawford..

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 26 2009 12:06 PM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

[quote="Edgy DC"]The problem is that with other teams bidding on him as a centerfielder, and fangraphs measuring him as a centerfielder, but the Mets entering negotiations as a team that might have use for him as a centerfielder, they'd likely have to overpay to secure him --- unless they're ready to commit before the season to the radical dynamic shift by moving Beltran to another position.

Fair enough.

But overpayment or not, he'd still likely be cheaper than Bay, right?

smg58 Oct 26 2009 12:42 PM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

I see Cameron as plan E or F. I'm not getting into a bidding war over him, but if it's mid-January, there's still room for him in the outfield, and he's still available, the team could do worse.

MFS62 Oct 26 2009 12:58 PM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

The only reason to sign a 37 year old outfielder is for a 1 year deal with the intent of holding a spot for a future starter in the minors. So signing Cameron to a 1 year deal only makes sense if you are CONVINCED that FMart, or even Ike Davis, will be ready in 2011. Only the Met brass can assess the probability of that happening! That said, the Mets need another (righty) hitter with power somewhere in the lineup. Later

Edgy DC Oct 26 2009 01:14 PM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

Another reason to do it is because you think there's nobody worth hooking up with long-term and you think that the free-agent market, as well as or in addition to your prospects, will look better a year from now. Not all problems can or should be solved for the long-term right away. Long-term solutions aren't always available, and long-term mistakes happen when you convince yourself that one is.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 26 2009 01:23 PM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

[quote="Edgy DC":2j2bm8dh]Another reason to do it is because you think there's nobody worth hooking up with long-term and you think that the free-agent market, as well as or in addition to your prospects, will look better a year from now. Not all problems can or should be solved for the long-term right away. Long-term solutions aren't always available, and long-term mistakes happen when you convince yourself that one is.[/quote:2j2bm8dh] What he said. When I said cheaper, I didn't just mean on a yearly-rate basis. Signing a Holliday, Bay or Lackey might seem the splashy, commitment-to-excellence move WFAN listeners-- and, frankly, most of us-- would do cartwheels over, if we could do cartwheels. But any of those "A-listers" is also likely a 5-6 year, untradeable deal.

metsguyinmichigan Oct 26 2009 01:42 PM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

[quote="Edgy DC":wcgol5qb]Another reason to do it is because you think there's nobody worth hooking up with long-term and you think that the free-agent market, as well as or in addition to your prospects, will look better a year from now. Not all problems can or should be solved for the long-term right away. Long-term solutions aren't always available, and long-term mistakes happen when you convince yourself that one is.[/quote:wcgol5qb] Like Vince Coleman or Kaz Matsui or Bobby Bonilla. The Mets seem to feel the pressure to go and get the biggest name available, even when the best player that year might not be one of the best overall. Though, in fairness, I think everyone was surprised that Matsui wasn't as good as advertised. And Bonilla was trying to fill a role that he really wasn't a good fit for -- the main man on the team.

Edgy DC Oct 26 2009 01:53 PM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

Kevin Appier was the guy in my mind. But Castillo, through no fault of his own, is also a case of the Mets over-solving a problem. And maybe three straight contracts to closers.

HahnSolo Oct 26 2009 02:55 PM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

Those who read these things closer than I, please opine: what do the defensive stats say, for 2009, re: Cameron v. Beltran in CF?

Edgy DC Oct 26 2009 03:03 PM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

I think that the numbers suggest Carlos had a bad year defensively, when he was on the field. Fangraphs gives him a -6.2 UZR/150 and Mike Cameron a 6.1. One problem is that, even if you throw all that out, it's not irrational to think that post-injury Beltran will be see a big dropoff from pre-injury Beltran.

smg58 Oct 26 2009 03:06 PM Re: Marty Noble likes the idea of Cameron. And so do the Mets.

Beltran's a tough read. The Fielding Bible has him down for this season, and Fangraphs has him significantly down, but it was a year limited by an injury. The issue would be the lingering effects of the injury. Cameron's still comfortably above average; the Fielding Bible says he's not quite as good as a healthy Beltran, but Fangraphs would disagree. But he's at an age where a decline is certainly possible.