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Unloading Castillo

Benjamin Grimm Nov 11 2009 09:05 AM

Phil Rogers of the Chicago Tribune (I have no idea how credible he may be; his last name alone may be reason to doubt him) says that Luis Castillo may be a Cub as soon as... today! [quote="Phil Rogers"] Is Luis Castillo the Cubs' guy? November 11, 2009 6:56 AM By Phil Rogers On the first day of the general managers' meetings, a report circulated about a possible three-way deal that would send Milton Bradley from the Cubs to the Blue Jays and bring second baseman Luis Castillo from the Mets to the Cubs. It wasn't realistic, however, as the Jays did not want Bradley. But the Cubs are interested in Castillo and both Tampa Bay and Texas are potential landing spots for Bradley. What if the Mets would take Pat Burrell from the Rays or someone like Brandon McCarthy or Chris Davis from the Rangers -- and perhaps Mike Fontenot from the Cubs -- to facilitate getting rid of Castillo? Cubs GM Jim Hendry could then go to his new owners and explain why it makes sense to pay part of the $21 million owed Bradley because he's adding a part -- the 34-year-old Castillo as a leadoff man/second baseman -- that can help in 2010. At that point a deal becomes possible, as early as Wednesday. Castillo, due $6 million in each of the next two seasons, might cost the Cubs $10 million a season when you factor in the portion of Bradley's deal that Hendry would have to pay. But that's an easier sell than simply releasing Bradley, especially if Castillo can help. He's been a fall guy with the Mets since dropping the pop up that cost them a game against the Yankees last season. Omar Minaya, the Mets' GM, would like to trade him to create room to add a free-agent second baseman, with Orlando Hudson high on his list. Yet Castillo did hit .302 with a .387 on-base percentage last year. He had more walks (69) than strikeouts (58) for the third straight season. He stole 20 bases. A switch hitter who is better from the left side, he fits the Cubs' long-term plans nicely. He could split second with Ryan Theriot once the fast-rising Starlin Castro has been installed at shortstop, which could be as soon as the middle of 2010. Hendry is working to get him.

HahnSolo Nov 11 2009 09:34 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

Actually Phil, he's been a fall man since long before the drop. But, Oh, man, am I reading that right: they would take him and the Mets would NOT have to pay any of his salary??

Centerfield Nov 11 2009 10:05 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="Phil Rogers"] Is Luis Castillo the Cubs' guy? November 11, 2009 6:56 AM By Phil Rogers On the first day of the general managers' meetings, a report circulated about a possible three-way deal that would send Milton Bradley from the Cubs to the Blue Jays and bring second baseman Luis Castillo from the Mets to the Cubs. It wasn't realistic, however, as the Jays did not want Bradley. But the Cubs are interested in Castillo and both Tampa Bay and Texas are potential landing spots for Bradley. What if the Mets would take Pat Burrell from the Rays or someone like Brandon McCarthy or Chris Davis from the Rangers -- and perhaps Mike Fontenot from the Cubs -- to facilitate getting rid of Castillo? Cubs GM Jim Hendry could then go to his new owners and explain why it makes sense to pay part of the $21 million owed Bradley because he's adding a part -- the 34-year-old Castillo as a leadoff man/second baseman -- that can help in 2010. At that point a deal becomes possible, as early as Wednesday. Castillo, due $6 million in each of the next two seasons, might cost the Cubs $10 million a season when you factor in the portion of Bradley's deal that Hendry would have to pay. But that's an easier sell than simply releasing Bradley, especially if Castillo can help. He's been a fall guy with the Mets since dropping the pop up that cost them a game against the Yankees last season. Omar Minaya, the Mets' GM, would like to trade him to create room to add a free-agent second baseman, with Orlando Hudson high on his list. Yet Castillo did hit .302 with a .387 on-base percentage last year. He had more walks (69) than strikeouts (58) for the third straight season. He stole 20 bases. A switch hitter who is better from the left side, he fits the Cubs' long-term plans nicely. He could split second with Ryan Theriot once the fast-rising Starlin Castro has been installed at shortstop, which could be as soon as the middle of 2010. Hendry is working to get him.

Yes. That's right. Castillo is a great, great long-term investment. Look at his pattern from 2008 to 2009. Yes his skills are improving every year! Pull the trigger Chicago. Sweep him up before someone else nabs him.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 11 2009 10:15 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="HahnSolo":32v31kds]Actually Phil, he's been a fall man since long before the drop. But, Oh, man, am I reading that right: they would take him and the Mets would NOT have to pay any of his salary??[/quote:32v31kds] The Cubs are dumping an even bigger salary (Bradley's owed $21M over the next two years; Castillo $12M). I'll have the Chris Davis, please. Is that on the menu, f'reals?

Edgy DC Nov 11 2009 10:21 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

If this happens, what's on second?

smg58 Nov 11 2009 10:27 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

I'm not sure there's a more viable suitor for Castillo's services at this point than the Cubs, so I have no problem talking shop with them. Hudson's on the FA market and the Reds might be shopping Brandon Phillips, and that's just off the top of my head.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 11 2009 10:28 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

Phillips > Hudson > Castillo. Could Chone Figgins play second?

TransMonk Nov 11 2009 10:30 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

I think Hudson would be an upgrade. Phillips is younger than Luis at least.

Edgy DC Nov 11 2009 10:31 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":1c7a934f]I'll have the Chris Davis, please. Is that on the menu, f'reals?[/quote:1c7a934f] That would give us three lefthanded firstbasemen, though, this one with even more dramatic splits.

seawolf17 Nov 11 2009 11:11 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="Edgy DC":15evzbpc][quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":15evzbpc]I'll have the Chris Davis, please. Is that on the menu, f'reals?[/quote:15evzbpc] That would give us three lefthanded firstbasemen, though, this one with even more dramatic splits.[/quote:15evzbpc] Yeah, but the Yankees have a whole roster of first basemen, and they win the World Series every year.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 11 2009 11:14 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="Edgy DC"][quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]I'll have the Chris Davis, please. Is that on the menu, f'reals?

That would give us three lefthanded firstbasemen, though, this one with even more dramatic splits.

Buy low, stick him at first, and if it's an out-and-out failure, there's replacement-level Murph, or the next year's Davis.

Edgy DC Nov 11 2009 11:26 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

I'm not sure it's buying low. It may be selling high on Castillo, but it creates a void at second and a redundancy at first.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 11 2009 11:46 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

I imagine the plan would be to fill the void at second by signing Orlando Hudson. (Don't know what the fallback would be, however, if Hudson opts to go elsewhere.) As you say, trading for a part-time left-handed hitting first baseman doesn't seem to make sense, unless the plan is to flip either the new guy or Murphy for someone else.

Vic Sage Nov 11 2009 12:40 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="John Cougar Lunchbucket":2bxeyqok]Phillips > Hudson > Castillo. Could Chone Figgins play second?[/quote:2bxeyqok] 2b was his primary position in the minors, and he has 800 Innings at the position in the majors. So, yeah, he can play 2b. But whether he can play it WELL is another matter. I'd certainly be happy for the Mets to find out.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 11 2009 01:58 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

Googling around, it looks like the Cubs may really be targeting Castillo. (It's hard to know for sure; it may be that the numerous mentions all stem from the one Phil Rogers article.) I'd give them Castillo for free if they'd also take Oliver Perez.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 11 2009 02:33 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

I'd give them Castillo for free if they'd also take Oliver Perez. That's silly. Oliver Perez is the 2010 Luis Castillo: Coming off a year so bad that only playing to the best of his ability will salvage his career. It's all upside, in fact, because if he's as bad again the Mets will eat the contract or/or replace him anyway so there's nothing to lose. But I'd bet Ollie, if healthy, has a good year next year.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 11 2009 02:37 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

I'd rather have someone take Oliver's contract so the money can be reinvested for 2010. But I really doubt Perez is going anywhere. Hopefully his 2010 will be a good one.

Frayed Knot Nov 11 2009 02:43 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] I'd give them Castillo for free if they'd also take Oliver Perez. That's silly. Oliver Perez is the 2010 Luis Castillo: Coming off a year so bad that only playing to the best of his ability will salvage his career. It's all upside, in fact, because if he's as bad again the Mets will eat the contract or/or replace him anyway so there's nothing to lose. But I'd bet Ollie, if healthy, has a good year next year.

I was about to say the same thing.
Both may be overpaid but - as was the case w/Castillo last year - neither is too old to think a turn-around is out of the question (or even unlikely) plus it's not like their theoretical superior replacements are just going to pop up for considerably less cost in terms of money, players, prospects, or draft picks.
That doesn't mean I won't look to upgrade, only that I don't think either are addition by subtraction even with their contracts factored in.

Ashie62 Nov 11 2009 02:56 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

Is Orlando Hudson that much better than Castillo?? The King-Size Chris Davis meal comes with 200K's

TransMonk Nov 11 2009 03:41 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="Ashie62":xpke4u0v]Is Orlando Hudson that much better than Castillo??[/quote:xpke4u0v] 2009: O Hudson (31 years old): .283/.357/.417/.774, 9 HR, 62 RBI L Castillo (33 years old): .302/.387/.346/.732, 1 HR, 40 RBI Hudson would be marginally cheaper as well as 2 years younger.

bmfc1 Nov 11 2009 04:33 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

While I like Orlando Hudson more than Castillo (I like Jennifer Hudson more than Castillo), I wonder why Torre benched him in all 8 playoff games in favor of Belliard.

Ashie62 Nov 11 2009 04:34 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

True, but not enough to knock my socks off..

metirish Nov 12 2009 06:33 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Phillips > Hudson > Castillo. Could Chone Figgins play second?

Mets think so apparently

New York Mets eye free agents Orlando Hudson, Chone Figgins as they try to dump Luis Castillo

CHICAGO - Trying to rid themselves of an ill-advised contract, the Mets shopped Luis Castillo during the GM Meetings that concluded Wednesday. Still, despite the veteran second baseman hitting .302 this season and staying healthy, GM Omar Minaya may have a difficult time moving Castillo. Castillo is midway through a four-year, $25 million deal that blocked the Mets from signing free agent Orlando Hudson last winter. Castillo had met with team officials at the end of the 2008 season to apologize for his performance and request to remain with the team. The Chicago Tribune reported the Cubs are interested in Castillo and are attempting to rope in a third team such as Tampa Bay or Texas as a way of finding a landing spot for Milton Bradley. Moving Castillo would open second base to Hudson, who again is a free agent. The Mets also have expressed interest in Chone Figgins, who is represented by the same agents as Castillo and David Wright. Figgins would provide solid defense in left field, although he wouldn't address the team's power deficiency. The Mets reportedly may be interested in using Figgins at second base. Asked about specific conversations with Cubs GM Jim Hendry, Omar Minaya said: "I touched base with most of the GMs." Minaya, who has his work cut out for him this offseason in retooling the Mets, labeled his 48-hour stay at the GM Meetings at the O'Hare Hilton productive. "These meetings were shorter than in the past," Minaya said Wednesday, before hopping an afternoon flight back to New York. "What we accomplished was continued dialogue with the different clubs on potential trades. But we also were able to meet with different agents. Even though it was only - what? - two days, we're a little closer to getting an idea of the potential trades that are out there and a feel for the agents." Minaya all but acknowledged meeting with Scott Boras, the agent for outfielder Matt Holliday. Boras also represents Alex Cora, whom the Mets hope to re-sign, and Rick Ankiel. "Scott is in the building," Minaya dryly said. Boras said Tuesday night that Holliday merits a contract similar to the eight-year, $180 million deal that landed client Mark Teixeira in the Bronx last winter. "That's their job, you know?" Minaya said about agents citing lofty figures. "It's early in the process. Their job is to try to reach for the most they can for their players." Minaya also all but confirmed that the Mets intend to part with free agent Brian Schneider and hope to pair Omir Santos with an established catcher, which would allow Josh Thole to open the season at Triple-A Buffalo. Bengie Molina appears the primary free-agent target. "It's a situation that we have to address," Minaya said. "Josh Thole is having a good year in winter ball (league-leading .414 average in Venezuela), and he's a fit because he's a lefthanded guy, but I think it's something we have to look at. I mean, Santos did a good job for us. It's fair to say we feel comfortable with Santos being one of the guys. We have to look at who that other guy is going to be." As for the underwhelming collection of available catchers, Minaya said. "I think catching, in general as an industry, there are certain guys that are offense and there are certain guys that are defense. There are very few that are offense and defense. No matter what team you're looking at, you're looking at one or the other."

Frayed Knot Nov 12 2009 07:22 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

I remember Figgins as being a not particularly good 2Bman - although that was back in the beginning of his career when the Angels were using him as a kind of Jack of all trades guy. They seemed to just try and shoe-horn him in wherever they had an opening which made him somewhat valuable because he could play so many spots but wasn't particularly proficient at any of them. He became a much better glove-man once he settled down at 3B and seems like the type who could adapt to the middle of the diamond given enough reps. I do worry that after years of being sort of under the radar he's now - at age 32 - going to get overpaid for those past performances by someone who tries to sell him as a cornerstone type of guy. His career BA & OBA numbers are almost identical to Castillo's with power that is only somewhat better and still well below average. Runs a decent amount but gets caught a fair amount too - although that type of high-risk running seems to come with the territory on Scioscia-run teams. Walks took a big jump this year for whatever reason. Is ~ 2-1/2 years younger than Luis.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 12 2009 07:25 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

Figgins would be nice at 2B in that he'd provide the kind of 1-2 speed punch at the top of the order the Mets have been trying to assemble ever since Reyes first came up. But I'd excuse them for not pursuing him if he can't play second base adequately, since I don't think we need that guy in the outfield.

metirish Nov 12 2009 07:27 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

Figgins really only makes sense at 2nd right? , could this team have that stick in LF?

Edgy DC Nov 12 2009 07:36 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

I'm wondering if signing Figgins or Hudson at this stage of their careers wouldn't be so much escaping Castillo's contract as it would be hitting reset on it. They're not far off of where he was two years ago, and they might have the leverage to command four years as well.

Ashie62 Nov 12 2009 07:42 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

There are a number of problems on this team, Castillo is not one of them..Forget Hudson and Figgins

soupcan Nov 12 2009 08:06 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="metirish":pikllbqd]Minaya said. "I think catching, in general as an industry...[/quote:pikllbqd] Catching is an industry? Good thing Omar's here to fill in the void Kiner has left. It's a different flavor of mangled English but a malaprop is a malaprop is a malaprop (or is it an eggcorn in this case?).

Ashie62 Nov 12 2009 08:27 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

Greg Zaun works in the Catching industry and is available Worth throwing any eggcorns at him?

Frayed Knot Nov 12 2009 08:42 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="Edgy DC":1vg0kyhp]I'm wondering if signing Figgins or Hudson at this stage of their careers wouldn't be so much escaping Castillo's contract as it would be hitting reset on it. They're not far off of where he was two years ago, and they might have the leverage to command four years as well.[/quote:1vg0kyhp] When he signed his NYM contract, Luis was 32 y/o and coming off three seasons of: .299 / .361 / .367 + 54 SBs Figgins - 32 before next season starts - is coming off three seasons of .300 / .383 / .392 + 117 SBs so Figgins walks a little more (mostly due to a spike in '09) hits for a bit more power (IsoP = .092 vs .068) and runs more often

Edgy DC Nov 12 2009 08:48 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

That's a little better, certainly, and a meaningful little, but the parallel I also see is the long-terminess of a guy with little history of high-end performance entering a decline phase of his career. Taking bids from teams looking for outfielders, thirdbasemen, and secondbasemen gives Figgins some leverage, and his reported asking price is five years, fifty mills. I have no idea if he'll get that, but it spooks me perhaps more than two more years of Castillo for 12 mills.

Ashie62 Nov 12 2009 09:07 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

Wouldn't it be prudent to leave Castillo be and expend ammo elsewhere?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 12 2009 10:01 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

Can you make a case for Felipe Lopez? He's one of those guys who I can't distinguish from other guys with similar latin names. But he's the former Reds and Nats SS who became a 2B when I wasn't looking, and also, got traded to the Brewers, and also, hits better than I would have guessed.

Edgy DC Nov 12 2009 10:09 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

Everybody seems to hate the guy. He displays offensive skills whenever he gets a chance, but then people throw his ass back in the lake. Started for Puerto Rico in the World Baseball Classic.

Edgy DC Nov 12 2009 11:12 AM Re: Unloading Castillo

Seems to me that Mets have genuine hitters coming down the pike at first and at catcher. At second, they have two prospects arrving in the next few years. It seems the place to overdose is in the outfield, where left is vacant, center has a bum (and possibly permanently so) knee, and right managed to tread water after drowning for two years, but could go under for a third time at any moment. I'd maybe get one or two guys --- the best outfielder avialable and perhpas a Nady-type to swing between outfield and first. Nady himself may not be signable without a position waiting for him, but I'd fish around for somebody like that. Let Castillo play, get a good B-plan, and let's see what happens. It seems he'll always be able to get some walks.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 12 2009 12:10 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="bmfc1":nv012c32]While I like Orlando Hudson more than Castillo (I like Jennifer Hudson more than Castillo), I wonder why Torre benched him in all 8 playoff games in favor of Belliard.[/quote:nv012c32] Hunches. Belliard was "hot." As good as he appears to be at managing personalities, Torre is a lot shittier at managing the game than he's ever been given credit for being.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 12 2009 12:13 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="Edgy DC":2nsxiz8k]Seems to me that Mets have genuine hitters coming down the pike at first and at catcher. At second, they have two prospects arrving in the next few years. It seems the place to overdose is in the outfield, where left is vacant, center has a bum (and possibly permanently so) knee, and right managed to tread water after drowning for two years, but could go under for a third time at any moment. I'd maybe get one or two guys --- the best outfielder avialable and perhpas a Nady-type to swing between outfield and first. Nady himself may not be signable without a position waiting for him, but I'd fish around for somebody like that. Let Castillo play, get a good B-plan, and let's see what happens. It seems he'll always be able to get some walks.[/quote:2nsxiz8k] Yep. Except you could argue that performance isn't the primary consideration to moving Castillo anymore; he's the "guy who dropped that ball" and "the guy who dropped those other balls." He'll get the Heilman treatment from the WFAN crowd if he's back again next spring.

Edgy DC Nov 12 2009 12:15 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

Those folks so need to not get their way.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 12 2009 01:11 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

Apparently Jon Heyman is saying that the Mets might trade Castillo to the Dodgers for Juan Pierre.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 12 2009 01:22 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":117dyi80]Apparently Jon Heyman is saying that the Mets might trade Castillo to the Dodgers for Juan Pierre.[/quote:117dyi80] That would be fucked up.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 12 2009 01:24 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

But he's gritty and good on defense and... Christ, even doing this sarcastically is making me sad and angry. (Not that I trust Heyman so much, but that's all too believable a rumor.)

metirish Nov 12 2009 01:25 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

Juan fucking Pierre? Omar has been wanting him since his Montreal days .

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 12 2009 01:27 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

[quote="Jon Heyman":oitsccba]Minaya said some teams have shown interest in Luis Castillo. The Dodgers are one team to have spoken to the Mets. How about Castillo for his old Marlins teammate Juan Pierre?[/quote:oitsccba]

Edgy DC Nov 12 2009 01:39 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

Sounds like a floater.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 12 2009 01:45 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

Yeah, when I posted the above, I hadn't read Heyman's actual words, just a blurb (on Google News) referencing his article. It does seem now that this is more Heyman's thought rather than any discussion that's actually taking place.

Frayed Knot Nov 12 2009 02:45 PM Re: Unloading Castillo

That's essentially just a warmed-over rumor from last year. I thought the idea sucked then even with Castillo coming off his lousy year although Pierre had a much better year - or at least a partial year while Manny was in steroids prison - then anyone had a right to expect. Still, if we're going to dump Luis I'd want it to be for a player we could actually use rather than just a warm body so we can say we no longer have Castillo.