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Thole in Venezuela

Benjamin Grimm Nov 12 2009 01:56 PM

[quote="The New York Times"] Mets Monitoring Safety of Prospect in Venezuela By DAVID WALDSTEIN Published: November 11, 2009 CHICAGO — Amid kidnappings and war rhetoric in Venezuela, the Mets may recommend that the catching prospect Josh Thole return home from his winter league team there. On Tuesday, the former Mets pitcher Victor Zambrano’s mother, 56-year-old Elizabeth Mendez Zambrano, was rescued in a commando-style raid after being kidnapped Sunday from her home at her son’s farm in Aragua. She is one of several relatives of baseball players who have been kidnapped for ransom in Venezuela in recent years. Meanwhile, President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela spoke this week of preparing for war with neighboring Colombia over its agreement to allow the United States to use seven military bases there, and has reportedly moved troops to the border region. The Mets are consulting with Major League Baseball’s security department and intend to provide Thole, who plays for Leones de Caracas, with all the information to ensure his safety, whether he comes back or remains. “We’re doing our due diligence regarding the entire situation,” Mets General Manager Omar Minaya said. “We’re looking into it to make sure Josh knows what’s going on and we know that he is safe.” The Mets have received reports that Thole is enjoying his time in Caracas without any concerns about his safety, and that he hopes to stay through his scheduled departure date, Dec. 8. According to The Associated Press, the Venezuelan police said that seven armed men burst into Mendez Zambrano’s home and kidnapped her because they could not find large amounts of cash and jewelry. Zambrano’s mother was abducted nine days after Zambrano’s cousin Richard Mendez Zambrano was kidnapped and later killed.

Um...? HELLO?

Due diligence????

Just bring him home! Omar, imagine if your son or daughter were down there amid talk of war and armed kidnappings. You'd get him or her home immediately. You wouldn't "monitor" the situation.

Sheesh.

I don't know why major league teams would send their players to an unsafe place like Venezuela, when there's plenty of warm winter weather in safer places like Florida or Arizona or Puerto Rico.

metirish Nov 12 2009 01:58 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

I'd think it would be hard to "relax at the plate" with the carryon over there.

Edgy DC Nov 12 2009 02:09 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

There's no safe place out there --- least of all Florida. Venezuela's homicide rate has shot up from 37 to 48 per 100,000 since 2000. But most United States (Louisiana being an exception even before Katrina) stay under 10. Be smart, be vigilant, and exhale a breath of freedom wherever you are, but don't believe for a moment that your birthright favors you. I think they have an obligation to keep him informed and tell him he's free to come home, but I'm not sure I'd pull the plug. That sort of says to the Venezuealan (and other) prospects down there that their lives are worth less.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 12 2009 02:38 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

I'd bring them all home. (Except those who already live in Latin America.) I know you like to be argumentative, and I know that no place is entirely safe, but wouldn't you rather be in Florida than Venezuela? Wouldn't you be more worried if someone you cared about was in Venezuela than if they were in Arizona or Puerto Rico? I know I would be.

Edgy DC Nov 12 2009 03:11 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

No, I don't really like to be argumentative at all. I like to be moderate. I don't have any kids abroad, so I have that advantage. I imagine I'd worry about them anywhere they went, but would want to them to go where their spirit and interests sent them, and to be smart and careful. I think moderation suggests that the Venezuelan Leagues have helped develop Major Leaguers for decades, and that it's best for a lot of folks if they continue to. I think political realities suggest that it's very difficult to get year-round visas for every Venezuelan big leaguer and prospect. And would they want to leave their families behind at such a time? My suggestion is to get all the information and advice I can get from the US State Department, with an eye toward working the DOS, the State, the players union, the other ML teams, and th Venezuelan Winter League to establish a security force for the players and possibly their families. Their wealth and status gives these players a chance to be real change agents, and it would be a shame if the culture generated from Chavez's regime was able to scare them all out of the country.

Ashie62 Nov 12 2009 03:13 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

Geez, I was kidding when I posted Thole had been kidnapped by Hugo Chavez. Venezuela is a hostile dictatorship..No need for the Mets to send any employees there

Edgy DC Nov 12 2009 03:16 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

Seriously? Not even scouts? We're isolationists now?

duan Nov 12 2009 04:54 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

It's funny, that whole thing has a certain degree of resonance because I live in a country that for a period of time had a part of it that had *WAY* more people dieing in it than it should have, and if you went by statistics nobody would ever have come to Ireland, yet even though South Armagh was only 60 miles up the road the 'troubles' have had no visible impact on my life in Dublin, apart from the odd issue with bomb scares. Similarly I've spent a fair few nights out on the tear up in Belfast before the Good Friday agreement and never had anything but hospitality and fun. Everywhere has it's dangers and upsides and downsides but the world is about going to places and experiencing things. I wouldn't be strolling down Kabul waving a stars & stripes, but South America isn't a warzone.

Ashie62 Nov 12 2009 09:47 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

[quote="Edgy DC":1zrzg703]Seriously? Not even scouts? We're isolationists now?[/quote:1zrzg703] Nope...and we are not isolationists, that is too broad a characterization

TheOldMole Nov 12 2009 10:57 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

Due diligence about a war?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 13 2009 12:05 AM Re: Thole in Venezuela

[quote="Ashie62":33udfoec][quote="Edgy DC":33udfoec]Seriously? Not even scouts? We're isolationists now?[/quote:33udfoec] Nope...and we are not isolationists, that is too broad a characterization[/quote:33udfoec] Psst... [quote="Ashie62":33udfoec]Venezuela is a hostile dictatorship..No need for the Mets to send any employees there[/quote:33udfoec]

Edgy DC Nov 13 2009 05:42 AM Re: Thole in Venezuela

I'm guessing Chavez isn't going to war, except a war of rhetoric.

Ashie62 Nov 13 2009 11:14 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":17n8huip][quote="Ashie62":17n8huip][quote="Edgy DC":17n8huip]Seriously? Not even scouts? We're isolationists now?[/quote:17n8huip] Nope...and we are not isolationists, that is too broad a characterization[/quote:17n8huip] Psst... [quote="Ashie62":17n8huip]Venezuela is a hostile dictatorship..No need for the Mets to send any employees there[/quote:17n8huip][/quote:17n8huip] Oh come on now....there are several countries we do not have diplomatic relations with...The USA is not isolationist by not dealing the these 3 countries. I would like to see diplomatic relations cut off with Venezuela. This is a baseball forum so I'll leave it at that. As for Josh Tholes, scouts, players..they will come and go to Venezuela hopefully without incident. Peace*

Nymr83 Nov 13 2009 11:31 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

If I were any MLB team with players down there I'd give them an open invitation to come back here immediately (and i'd pay them if they left, because hey its not my money and whatever they are making for the winter down there probably isn't a blip on the Met's financial radar), but thats about it for now.

Edgy DC Nov 14 2009 05:35 AM Re: Thole in Venezuela

Well, you're arguing MLB players, and Thole, I guess, is within the scope of that, because he's on an MLB roster, but the Mets have dozens and dozens of personnnel down there, some of whom it's going to take a lot of work to get get visas on. And if they can somehow do that, and they rebuild the the Venezuelan academy up here --- or in another somewhat dangerous but currently less saber-rattling country --- will other teams follow suit? If we start gutting the league and takinga piece out of a national cultural institution, will it be further destabilizing to the nation? If none of that happens, will there nonetheless be a backlash by the government or local baseball authorities keeping the Mets from signing Venezuelans? If they keep Thole informed and he wants out, I'd certainly welcome him back with no penalty. If they can't find a spot for him on another winter league roster, so be it. But he's there for a reason.

Nymr83 Nov 14 2009 08:14 AM Re: Thole in Venezuela

when i said "any MLB team with players down there" i didn't mean to limit myself to the major league roster, i meant any player in the organization. i don't think the mets have a responsibility to avoid destabilizing a foreign country by pulling its personnel out (if in fact that would even be a plausible outcome), the mets have a responsibility to their personnel only. i don't think they need to pull them at this time, but if the time comes their safety should be the only consideration in the mets decision making.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 14 2009 08:45 AM Re: Thole in Venezuela

I'm with Namor on this one.

Edgy DC Nov 14 2009 09:15 AM Re: Thole in Venezuela

Yeah, but he's sayign he wouldn't pull them at this time, and you're saying you would.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 14 2009 10:35 AM Re: Thole in Venezuela

I agree that the Mets shouldn't be concerned with instability in Venezuela. But yes, I would pull them now. I'd feel a sense of responsibility for them, and I wouldn't trust a bunch of 20-year-olds, who are at an age when they may think they're invulnerable, to be an accurate judge of their safety.

Edgy DC Nov 14 2009 01:04 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

Then you don't really agree with him because that's not the issue here, and hardly the real concern of my argument. Does anybody really believe Chavez is going to go to war with Colmbia, and by extension the US?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 14 2009 01:49 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

I agree with what he said about stability in Venezuela. Just because it has nothing to do with your argument doesn't mean I don't agree with him.

Edgy DC Dec 03 2009 12:20 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

Thole in VZ: .391 / .488 / .571 // 1.059.

metirish Dec 03 2009 12:24 PM Re: Thole in Venezuela

At that rate Hugo Chávez will nationalize him.