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The Mets Make Offers

bmfc1 Dec 10 2009 12:18 PM

I apologize if this doesn't deserve it's own thread... According to numerous tweets, including a confirmation from the team, the Mets have made offers to Jason Bay and Bengie Molina.

Edgy DC Dec 10 2009 12:27 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Great. Molina!!!

G-Fafif Dec 10 2009 12:47 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

All baseball pros and cons aside, the Mets are prepared to willingly employ a blood relative of Yadier Molina. Shudder

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 10 2009 12:51 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="G-Fafif"]All baseball pros and cons aside, the Mets are prepared to willingly employ a blood relative of Yadier Molina. Shudder

This is roughly 12 percent of my "Do Not Want" right here.

Ashie62 Dec 10 2009 12:53 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

"Old Bay" I snorted Old bay once in a bar 20 years ago. Hope Jason Bay does more for the Mets if signed than Old Bay did for me

Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2009 01:01 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="The New York Times"]Mets Make Offers to Bay, Molina By BEN SHPIGEL INDIANAPOLIS — The Mets have begun to tip their hand that they are prioritizing an improvement on offense this offseason, making their first major free agency offers to catcher Bengie Molina and outfielder Jason Bay, sources familiar with the offers said Thursday. The pursuit of Molina comes as no surprise, considering the Mets’ dire need for a catcher. When the Giants declined to offer Molina arbitration after this season, he became an obvious target for the Mets. He adds decent power to the Mets lineup in addition to his defense. The offer to Bay is noteworthy on two fronts. It means they are not leading the charge to sign Matt Holliday, a Scott Boras client. And it indicates the Mets are willing to spend first to shore up their offense, instead of making a play for a top-flight pitcher like John Lackey. Bay was a boon to the Red Sox since they traded for him in the middle of the 2008 season and he has topped the 30-homer mark in four of the past five seasons. He hit .267 with 36 home runs this season.

Frayed Knot Dec 10 2009 01:43 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="bmfc1":3o19krrp]I apologize if this doesn't deserve it's own thread...[/quote:3o19krrp] Never apologize for starting a new thread. If you think it deserves one, it does. Not sure what to read into Bay but not Holliday; it's not like they've shown a reluctance to deal with Boras in the past. Maybe it's just the Boras trend of stringing things out so long that throwing out a line to Bay early might nail one position down as opposed to playing footsie over the next few months waiting for a fairly similar player.

metirish Dec 10 2009 01:44 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Heyman The Mets have offered free agent outfielder Jason Bay about $65 million over four years. Bay you'll remember spat on Boston's four year $60 million offer. - Me

Edgy DC Dec 10 2009 01:46 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

It'd be ballsy if they put in offers for both and told them and said that the offer stands until you accept or the other guy does.

Ashie62 Dec 10 2009 01:52 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="metirish":6ssy47at]Heyman The Mets have offered free agent outfielder Jason Bay about $65 million over four years. Bay you'll remember spat on Boston's four year $60 million offer. - Me[/quote:6ssy47at] 4 for 65? Where are the Angels?

Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2009 01:57 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

It's a starting offer. It shows Bay, and the world, (and Scott Boras) that the Mets are interested. The process is just beginning. I imagine the Mets intend to subsequently revise that offer upwards as things develop.

Frayed Knot Dec 10 2009 02:01 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="Ashie62":1fkup6sh] Where are the Angels?[/quote:1fkup6sh] Dancing on the head of a pin.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 10 2009 02:01 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Gordon Edes, blogging on ESPN.com, writes: The Mets had been focused on pitching, but with the Los Angeles Angels indicating they had "more pressing needs" than pursuing a left fielder, GM Omar Minaya has moved aggressively toward adding Bay.

Farmer Ted Dec 10 2009 02:03 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Intangibles such as luxury suite, autograph and memorabilia tent, private jet, private hotel suite on the road, an endless supply of bubble gum, and the always popular "I only have to show up on days that I pitch/play" will need to be ironed out later after an agreement in principle is worked out. Of course.

Ashie62 Dec 10 2009 03:25 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="Farmer Ted":2tbp0okl]Intangibles such as luxury suite, autograph and memorabilia tent, private jet, private hotel suite on the road, an endless supply of bubble gum, and the always popular "I only have to show up on days that I pitch/play" will need to be ironed out later after an agreement in principle is worked out. Of course.[/quote:2tbp0okl] More reasons to dislike Professional Sports

Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 11 2009 08:47 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="Ashie62":w0jpvzeu][quote="Farmer Ted":w0jpvzeu]Intangibles such as luxury suite, autograph and memorabilia tent, private jet, private hotel suite on the road, an endless supply of bubble gum, and the always popular "I only have to show up on days that I pitch/play" will need to be ironed out later after an agreement in principle is worked out. Of course.[/quote:w0jpvzeu] More reasons to dislike Professional Sports[/quote:w0jpvzeu] Yeah, damn those workers that use their much-desired talents to leverage a more equitable share of profit.

Edgy DC Dec 11 2009 08:49 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

I would've played for nuttin'! Nuttin', I tells ya!

metsmarathon Dec 11 2009 08:51 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

me too. but as long as they're payin...

willpie Dec 11 2009 01:42 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Wait, Bay? What happened to pursuing Holliday first?

metirish Dec 11 2009 01:47 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Mets " people" think that Bay the pull hitter will work just fine at CF and that Holliday the gap hitter would not...plus they think his way better with the glove.

HahnSolo Dec 11 2009 01:51 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="metirish":bne96268]Mets " people" think that Bay the pull hitter will work just fine at CF and that Holliday the gap hitter would not...plus they think his way better with the glove.[/quote:bne96268] I just read that in the Snooze. Good grief.

Edgy DC Dec 11 2009 01:55 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

I don't believe that. About the glove.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2009 01:59 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Another possibility is that, given Boras' history, the Holliday signing may not happen for quite a while, and maybe the Mets want to lock up Bay and then focus on their pitching. If they wait for Holliday, Bay, and Lackey, and Piniero, and others may have signed elsewhere.

metirish Dec 11 2009 02:00 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="Edgy DC":1vvlmdvn]I don't believe that. About the glove.[/quote:1vvlmdvn] I may have made that up but I think I read it somewhere in some rag.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 11 2009 02:02 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

The Snooze didn't say anything about their feeling on his glove. I think they like Bay prolly because they figure they'll encounter less traffic to get him. I'm not all so enamored of Holliday that you'd consider Bay to be distant 2nd. I wonder where this would leave Fartinez though. As the centerpiece of some trade?

Benjamin Grimm Dec 11 2009 02:15 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Yeah, I'm thinking more and more that Martinez's future is probably elsewhere. I get the sense that the Mets don't want to trade Ike Davis, and maybe not Thole either. But perhaps Mejia and Martinez might be part of a trade package and some point. (It may be more accurate to swap Mejia and Thole's names in the above; I guess it's just as likely that way.)

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 11 2009 02:17 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

The glove bit is courtesy of Steve Popper of The Record, quoting the ubiquitous "Mets official": But after a long diatribe by Scott Boras Wednesday on why Holliday was so much better than Bay, the Mets believe otherwise: - They think his swing fits Citi Field. - Despite the numbers, they like him defensively over Holliday. - Again, despite what Boras said, they insist he is a better athlete than Holliday. Also, despite seeing copies of both players' passports, Mets front office staff believe that Holliday is much more Canadian than Bay.* *I may have made this part up.

metirish Dec 11 2009 06:06 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Media asking if the Mets are only making offers to appease us fans.....WTF? http://www.newsday.com/columnists/jim-b ... -1.1649134 That's just the latest I have read.... here's another http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/tal ... xuCYIieSRK

MFS62 Dec 11 2009 06:37 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Consider the source(s). Later

Edgy DC Dec 11 2009 06:44 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Yeah, that made for some endumbening reading, huh? TF is that such populist claptrap as that sells papers. And they punch with two hands, also. On one hand is the tone deaf Mets clinging to the purse, putting a shitpile product out there and not caring a whit for the daily cries of Willie Workingstiff and Millie Minivan. On the other is the bait-and-switch Mets, making merely symbolic offers to good players, settling for second-raters and thus patronizing Willie and Millie with insincere responses to their cries. Held in reserve is the piece de resistance, the stupid-ass Mets who were so kowtowishly solcitious of their fans that they let their shortsightedness guide the multi-millon dollar decisions that will haunt them for years. Three paper-selling angles to recycle, without ever having to report actual news.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 12 2009 08:52 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="metirish"]Mets " people" think that Bay the pull hitter will work just fine at CF and that Holliday the gap hitter would not...plus they think his way better with the glove.

Here's the quote:

The Mets’ thinking is that Holliday is not only too expensive — he is expected to command up to $100 million — but also a poor fit offensively at cavernous Citi Field. The Mets’ statistical analysis, confirmed by a team source, shows the right-hand swinging Bay’s dead-pull style is better suited to left field at Citi. Holliday is more of a gap hitter, and the gaps at the Mets’ new home are considered particularly deadly.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/met ... EPsdsuGdxJ

I tend to agree with this analysis. Holliday has been averaging about 30 HR's over a full season since he became a full time player. But he's hit about 2/3 of his HR's in Denver. Holliday is a terrific player, but to the extent that anyone thinks he's a superduperstar, and many do, it's only because the stadium that he gets to play half his games in pads his stats. Over the last 4 seasons, Holliday has averaged 1 HR for every 28.12 road at bats - or about 9-11 road HR's over a full season. Bay has hit over 20 road HR's outright in two of the last four season, and would likely be the first player to hit 20 HR's playing a full season at Citi Field if the Mets were to sign him.

There's obviously more to this analysis, including fielding considerations, and that Holliday is two years younger than Bay and has yet to have a subpar season in his career. But the Mets need HR power. And having HR power in a stadium that's murder on the long ball is an even bigger advantage than it ordinarily would be.

Ashie62 Dec 12 2009 10:21 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="metirish":3cb0zfx7]Media asking if the Mets are only making offers to appease us fans.....WTF? http://www.newsday.com/columnists/jim-b ... -1.1649134 That's just the latest I have read.... here's another http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/tal ... xuCYIieSRK[/quote:3cb0zfx7] Appease away!

smg58 Dec 12 2009 10:24 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Holliday's OPS+ (ballpark independent) the last 4 seasons: 137, 151, 138, 139. He had a bit of a blip in 07, but has otherwise been consistent. The ballpark factors at Oakland and St. Louis (according to Baseball Reference) last year were 99 and 98, meaning both slightly favored pitchers. Citi had a 98, so Holliday's overall numbers from last year are more or less what you should expect if he came here. Bay's OPS+ the last 4 seasons: 138, 94, 134, 134. 2007 was a lost year, but you probably know what to expect from him, which is a bit less that what you should expect from Holliday. He will hit more home runs, perhaps 10 or so more, but Holliday will make up for it with more hits and a higher OBP. And if the cavernous gaps in left field are considered when evaluating offense, they certainly need to be considered when evaluating defense. Fangraphs has Holliday saving 23 runs relative to average over the past four seasons, while Bay cost his team 40 runs in that stretch. The Fielding Bible is more conservative, but it still has Holliday at +10 runs and Bay at -19 over that stretch. Both sites show 2006 as Bay's one positive year and Holliday's one negative year over the last four, so if if anything Holliday has gotten better while Bay has gotten worse. Honestly, I think it's obvious who the better player is, and would make my offers accordingly.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 12 2009 11:21 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

What will kill me is if the Mets DO get Bay at 4/$65-70M-- which, admittedly, seems doubtful-- only to see Holliday sign for $18-19M.

Edgy DC Dec 12 2009 12:20 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

So, you obviously value Holliday more, but where do you place the dollar sign on the muscle. Is Holliday at $20 million per better value than Bay at $15 million per? If not, what is Bay worth at that rate?

smg58 Dec 12 2009 02:04 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="Edgy DC":kmemj102]So, you obviously value Holliday more, but where do you place the dollar sign on the muscle. Is Holliday at $20 million per better value than Bay at $15 million per? If not, what is Bay worth at that rate?[/quote:kmemj102] I'd say Holliday is worth 10 more runs per year at least (leaning to the more conservative estimate of defensive value) , and going by Fangraphs calculations, 10 runs approximately equals 1 win approximately equals $4M. So if Bay will cost $15M but Holliday will cost $20M, Bay probably is a very slightly better value. I'll wager the difference in salary will be smaller than that, though, and the age difference should net Holliday at least one more year..

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 12 2009 03:51 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

I do think Holliday for 5/$95-100M is worth more than Bay for 5 years/$80M. But Bay's very livable. And honestly, practically speaking, it's not like either would be tradable at anything like those prices. Not that I'm generally of a Post-type mindset, but I do think that the Mets may have been well-served to have made a slightly stronger initial offer-- either 5/75 or 4/70.

metirish Dec 12 2009 04:25 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

You got to think that to get Bay the Mets will need to go 5 years and bring the total to $80 at least.....Boras of course is talking Texeria money for Holliday.....

Frayed Knot Dec 12 2009 05:05 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Holliday/Boras are probably also looking for a longer term deal. I think that probably tilted the Mets mind towards Bay as much as anything.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 12 2009 05:34 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Bay rejects Boston's latest offer ESPNBoston.com Jason Bay has turned down the Red Sox latest contract offer. In a story that was first reported on Foxsports.com, Bay's agent Joe Urbon said Bay was prepared to "move on" from the Red Sox after rejecting the offer. "We don't agree with their evaluation of the player," Urbon said. "Frankly, we have other offers on the table that are of greater interest to Jason." The New York Mets made Bay an offer Thursday. ESPN's Buster Olney reported the Mets offer was for four years and between $60 million and $65 million, according to sources close to negotiations. The Red Sox were not taken by surprise by the Mets' interest in Bay, a baseball source told ESPNBoston.com's Gordon Edes. They had heard New York was going to make a big push at some point. The Red Sox's last known offer to Bay was reportedly for four years and $60 million. If the Red Sox lose Bay they could turn their attention to free agent left fielder Matt Holliday. Information from ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney and ESPNBoston.com's Gordon Edes was used in this report.

metirish Dec 13 2009 09:22 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

A mystery team has entered the bidding with a five year offer.....

metirish Dec 13 2009 10:20 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Seattle are the mystery team....did they get a huge cash infusion this off-season or what?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 13 2009 10:30 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Shelling out seems to make sense for 'em. He's a Canadian-- BC, I believe-- so there's the local-boy thing at play. Plus, they've actually got a pretty damn good team-- with an OF defense that can more than cover for any D issues Bay may bring, and a DH slot that figures to be open once Griffey retires in a year or two-- in a West that figures to be wide-open in the next two years.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 14 2009 07:05 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

My hunch, now that Lackey is gone, is that the Mets will do what it takes to get Bay. My prediction: Five years, $81 million. And he'll be signed within a week. (That means on or before December 21.)

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 14 2009 07:38 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Red Sox have moved on, and not to Holliday. Two years for Kablammeron.

metirish Dec 14 2009 07:47 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

These guys don't waste time do they?, Cam will compete with Hermida ?

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2009 08:05 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

If you get Cameron it's to play CF. Hermida is strictly a corner guy (and not a very good one at that). The main loser here is Ellsbury.

Ashie62 Dec 14 2009 08:53 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="Frayed Knot":zu80qmxl]If you get Cameron it's to play CF. Hermida is strictly a corner guy (and not a very good one at that). The main loser here is Ellsbury.[/quote:zu80qmxl] No, Ellsbury will LF full-time meanwhile, Bengie Molina wants THREE years..Fuck that!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 14 2009 09:37 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

If that's true, then Bengie Molina can suck on his neck fat.

Frayed Knot Dec 15 2009 07:08 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="Ashie62":2d40d1mo][quote="Frayed Knot":2d40d1mo]If you get Cameron it's to play CF. Hermida is strictly a corner guy (and not a very good one at that). The main loser here is Ellsbury.[/quote:2d40d1mo] No, Ellsbury will LF full-time[/quote:2d40d1mo] Well then Ellsbury becomes an even less valuable player than he already is. Not that he's a bad player now - just more than a bit over-rated by some. There was a time a year or so ago in WFAN-land where NYM fans (and a few hosts as well) were just salivating about the possibility of Boston giving up Ellsbury in exchange for Beltran. Idiots! Move him now to LF - particularly in that park where his best asset of speed is somewhat negated - and there's a serious power deficit there.

Centerfield Dec 15 2009 08:22 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

I wonder if part of this is motivated by the possibility that Ellsbury may be moved in a trade for Adrian Gonzalez.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 16 2009 02:29 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

According to Heyman this morning, the Mets have "tweaked their offer" to Bay to include five years*, while Molina is rumored-- yeah, yeah-- to be seeking 3 yrs/20M. Molina is also rumored to have been smoking boatloads of crack. According to both this and the Post, Minaya also plans to call Holliday today. *Buster Olney disagrees.

Ashie62 Dec 16 2009 03:55 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

I'm guessing Bay or Holliday will join the flock. Molina will when the crack wears off and no other offers come. We get the 8th inning Japanese guy.. That leaves an SP, or not, and Murphy at 1b, or not..

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 17 2009 08:43 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

On the Mets' preferring Bay to Holliday defensively, according toKen Davidoff*: -Want to know why the Mets think Jason Bay is a superior defender to Matt Holliday? In part, it's because of Bay's experience playing centerfield. Which is sort of odd, because Bay has played only 40 games in centerfield, and hasn't been there since 2005. Holliday has never played centerfield. *A Newsday article for which you DON'T HAVE TO PAY! FUCKING AWESOME!

Nymr83 Dec 17 2009 10:19 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

someone in the Post today said the Mets preffered Bay's pull-hitting to Holliday's gap-hitting because of Citi Field. I don't know if he pulled that out of his ass or if the Mets PR machine "leaked" it as justification for not going after the better player

Benjamin Grimm Dec 18 2009 05:33 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

That's been their party line for a while now. (The gap/pull thing.) I also don't know whether it's true or if it's just a justification for going after the less expensive player.

Edgy DC Dec 18 2009 07:07 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

I htink the Mets should offer Molina a three-month deal wit a series of one-month options.

metirish Dec 18 2009 02:08 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 18 2009 02:14 PM

So , what's going on here?. Maybe Bay and Molina would really rather go elsewhere?. Only one team seems to be in for them and yet nothing is signed, strange.

Edgy DC Dec 18 2009 02:14 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

It's more or less the way it works every year, including the panic-madness of the tabloids. The top guys in the market hold out and the dominoes fall behind them. It'll be cool.

Valadius Dec 18 2009 02:18 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

I feel like we're going to get somebody we'll be happy with. It'll probably be Bay, but who knows.

metirish Dec 18 2009 02:19 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

You're definitely probably correct Val

metirish Dec 21 2009 07:55 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Mets' talks with Bay, Molina affect each other The Mets hope to resolve their pursuit of Jason Bay very shortly - this week, ideally - but think their negotiations with Bengie Molina will drag on longer. That reflects how far apart they are in their talks with Molina, and it also reflects a strategy - and the notion that in the Mets' minds, the fates and salaries of Bay and Molina are tied together. On Dec. 10, the Mets made offers of four years for about $65 million to Bay and two years for about $10 million to Molina. According to a Mets official, if the team fails to secure Bay, it will strongly consider raising its offer to Molina. But if Bay signs, the Mets will hold a harder line with Molina. The thinking ties back into the Mets' desire to improve their team's offense. Club decision-makers opted to go for Bay and Molina with the thought that the duo would raise the offensive production from two positions that gave the Mets little in 2009. Bay, 31, wants a fifth guaranteed year, and the Mets have indicated a willingness to offer a fifth year at a lower annual salary. Bay has established himself as one of the better-hitting corner outfielders in the game. In 2009 with the Red Sox, he had a .384 on-base percentage and .537 slugging percentage, hitting a career-high 36 homers. Molina, 35, doesn't have as impressive a resume. He does hit for power; he slammed a career-high 20 homers for the Giants in 2009. But his on-base percentage has been below .300 two of the past three seasons. This past year, he recorded a woeful .285 OBP, which means he'll be in line to kill many a rally for the Mets or whichever team signs him. If Bay signs with another team - at the moment, he doesn't appear to have any comparable offers from other teams - the Yankees will have to reassess the market for outfielders. The Angels are looking to trade Juan Rivera, whom Omar Minaya acquired from the Yankees when he was the Expos' general manager in 2003. The Mets have maintained contact with agent Scott Boras regarding Matt Holliday, but the communication hasn't been steady. The Mets think Bay's tendency to pull the ball will make him a better hitter at Citi Field than Holliday, who is thought of as more of a gap hitter. I can easily see us getting neither of them....

Frayed Knot Dec 21 2009 08:16 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

According to a Mets official, if the team fails to secure Bay, it will strongly consider raising its offer to Molina. But if Bay signs, the Mets will hold a harder line with Molina. Regardless of whether you agree with the strategy to persue either of these guys - who the hell thinks it's a good idea to publicize this stuff?

smg58 Dec 21 2009 08:44 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

I agree. I wonder if there's one Mets source doing all the talking, or whether the whole damn front office has diarrhea of the mouth.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 21 2009 09:27 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

A CPF member gets a shout-out in the headline to this New York Post article. [quote="New York Post"]Mets edgy as Bengie & Bay stall By BART HUBBUCH Last Updated: 10:43 AM, December 21, 2009 Radio silence from Jason Bay and Bengie Molina continued for the Mets over the weekend, leading some within the club to wonder if either player is truly interested in coming to Queens. The Mets remained at a negotiating standstill with Bay and Molina after offering both free agents contracts on the final day of the Winter Meetings almost two weeks ago. Mets GM Omar Minaya has indicated a willingness to wait on both players, telling The Post late last week, "It is a long offseason." But a team source said yesterday that Minaya might soon consider other options in left field and at catcher if Bay and Molina continue to leave the Mets dangling despite appearing to have no serious offers anywhere close to what Minaya has tendered. The holdup in both cases continues to be an extra year -- the 31-year-old Bay wants a fifth year added to the Mets' four-year, roughly $65 million offer, while the 35-year-old Molina wants a guaranteed third year tacked on to Minaya's two-year, roughly $12 million proposal. While Minaya hasn't ruled out adding a year to each offer, the Mets refuse to budge for the moment because they are increasingly convinced they are all but bidding against themselves for both players. Unfortunately for the Mets, their options in left field aren't all that promising beyond Bay. Matt Holliday is considered too expensive by the Mets in light of his roughly $100 million offer from the Cardinals. Meanwhile, sentiment within the organization is not strong to pursue free agent Johnny Damon, because the Mets are looking to add power and they wonder if Damon's 24 home runs last season were largely a product of new Yankee Stadium's bandbox dimensions. If Bay goes elsewhere, the Mets might look instead to the trade market or the list of non-tendered players, with former Red Jonny Gomes (20 HRs in 98 games last year) a possibility.

I too am wondering if either player is truly interested in coming to Queens.

It should be an interesting press conference if the Mets ever do sign Bay. He'll be standing there in a Mets cap, wearing a jersey over his shirt and tie (that's an awful look, by the way) and he'll say, "Well, I didn't really want to come here. This is a team that's in a tailspin and I worry that I'll never hit another home run again once I get psyched out by Citi Field. But they were the only team offering the dollars, so, what can you do?"

It'll really be inspiring!

Centerfield Dec 21 2009 09:45 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

I don't understand why they haven't at least make an offer to Holliday. The Cardinals have either offered 5 years or 8 years, but since Holliday hasn't signed, you'd have to think it was a 5 year deal. They should put that offer out there right now. As for Molina, I think the offer should be for one year less, for less than half the annual salary.

MFS62 Dec 21 2009 09:52 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="smg58":3tbe59ty]I agree. I wonder if there's one Mets source doing all the talking, or whether the whole damn front office has diarrhea of the mouth.[/quote:3tbe59ty] And they're blabbing to writers who have constipation of ideas. Later

Fman99 Dec 21 2009 10:21 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

I like the delay, actually. The alternative is throwing more money and years at both of these guys than they deserve (see Perez, Oliver). I wonder who blinks first, Omar or Bay/Molina.

Ashie62 Dec 21 2009 10:26 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Jonny Gomes is being talked about for the Metsies 280 AB 20 HR platoon type

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 21 2009 10:28 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="Fman99":32v0nr67]I like the delay, actually. The alternative is throwing more money and years at both of these guys than they deserve (see Perez, Oliver). I wonder who blinks first, Omar or Bay/Molina.[/quote:32v0nr67] I'm with you in principle. Bad example, though-- Ollie came as a panic reaction to dawdling on-- and getting diddled on-- Lowe.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 21 2009 11:07 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Um... whatsthatnow, Davidoff?* According to a Mets official, if the team fails to secure Bay, it will strongly consider raising its offer to Molina. But if Bay signs, the Mets will hold a harder line with Molina. OE: *Subscription required-- here's a summary of sorts from Metsblog.

Ashie62 Dec 21 2009 11:14 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Jesus Christmas, this chessmatch amongst idiots is annoying. Note to Bay, Holliday, Molina, "those extra years and cash you want, not gonna happen"

Benjamin Grimm Dec 21 2009 02:21 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

I'm not familiar with Howard Megdal, but he seems quite rational. How did he manage to get an Internet column?? All Mets want for Christmas is nothing Patience could serve club well in long term By Howard Megdal / SNY.tv So far this winter, the Mets have missed out on five years of John Lackey. They've seen Roy Halladay traded to the Phillies, with whom he will remain until at least 2013. Free agents from Chone Figgins to Randy Wolf have signed long-term deals elsewhere, and, with each passing day, there's every indication that the Mets won't stretch beyond four years for Jason Bay or two years form Bengie Molina. So far, this has been the best possible winter for the Mets. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that the Mets don't have holes, or that I don't want to see the club improve them as soon as possible. Rather, it is that this winter's free agent class is filled with what look to be trap contracts. And I don't want the Mets to marginally improve for 2010 while crippling the organization long-term. Long-term contracts are like marriage. Even if every indicator is good, they still require good planning and some luck to succeed. Go into either with a myriad of red flags, and you end up like Barry Zito Dennis Rodman and whoever. John Lackey at five years, $85 million, at age 31, with elbow injuries and a declining strikeout rate the past two seasons? You really want the Mets to sign up for that? Randy Wolf at three years, $30 million? Chone Figgins, to change positions, for four years, $36 million? It's as if those calling for immediate gratification don't have trap contracts in their minds when they do. Never mind that the Mets can't improve second base as long as Luis Castillo and his two years, $12 million are on the books -- or that only because Milton Bradley's ridiculous deal was equivalent to Carlos Silva's ridiculous deal in terms of toxicity were the Cubs and Mariners able to deal each of them. Some are calling on the Mets to do whatever it takes to win now. It is even reasonable to think that it is in Omar Minaya's best interest to do this. A difficult 2010 could spell the end of Minaya's tenure in New York, and what a shame that would be -- for Minaya to act in the best medium-term and long-term interest of the team at the expense of his job. So far, however, he hasn't done this, and Mets fans should be grateful. The free-agent options are largely unpalatable. Even Jason Bay at four years is problematic -- his defense, already terrible, is unlikely to get better as he ages, and the plan is for first base to be occupied by Ike Davis by 2011. And for all the hype around Matt Holliday, he is a corner outfielder with a career OPS on the road of .808. Sure doesn't sound like he's worth Carlos Beltran money to me. Fans should be grateful for this restraint, but not as grateful as they should be to the Mets for failing to take up suggestions from columnists that the team deal Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran and, yes, even Johan Santana. I suppose it is the only logical way to proceed. If you are determined to re-shuffle the team in 2010 and you've decided the free-agent and trade markets are dead ends, then dealing the stars under reasonable contracts, coming off of injuries and with trade value at an all-time low is the way to go. Of course, the 2010 Mets simply don't have the capability to control their own fortunes through player moves. Instead, they are in the not-terrible position of needing bounceback seasons from Jose Reyes, David Wright, Carlos Beltran, Johan Santana and Francisco Rodriguez. When all five of them are in what should be the prime of their careers, none has anything considered career-threatening injuries, and each of the five plays critical positions, this speaks to a potential renaissance season for New York. But that is precisely the point. Should they recover their peak form, the Mets will be a terrific team, and without saddling the future Mets with bad contracts. Should they fail to recover, the Mets could have signed Bay, Holliday and Lackey, and still finished a distant third or fourth in the National League East. And what may be the best news of all for the Mets is Bengie Molina's insistence on a three-year contract. In essence, Molina has taken the Mets' irrational fascination with bringing Molina to New York and raised it a ludicrous contractual demand. He's saying, in effect, "I'll see your statement that the earth is flat, and raise you that the moon is made of cheese." (Incidentally, I have to mention Ken Davidoff's reporting that should the Mets fail to sign Bay, Molina becomes even more important, and three years is possible. There is no baseball reason to sign Molina for one year, let alone two or three. I can only assume -- and this may seem silly-that the Mets have equated "Big Acquisition" to refer to player mass. This is not what the fans have in mind, Omar. Please don't go out and sign Molina and the late Dom DeLuise.) Ideally for the Mets, Bay and Molina are out of reach due to their demands, and the team has to settle for one-year deals to players like Jonny Gomes and Miguel Olivo, who will provide production in 2010 without saddling the team with bad contracts for years to come. For anyone who thinks the Mets will somehow be irrelevant if they fail to make a huge splash, or that fans will revolt, think again. The Mets, if their star players recover, will be relevant for years to come -- David Wright turned 27 Sunday, and Jose Reyes won't be 27 until June 2010. And fans will be far happier when the true contracts worth signing up for hit the market. Be it Carl Crawford or Felix Hernandez, or someone not even on the radar, fans will be far happier if the team can go out and compete for that star, in-prime player, instead of trying to sell fans on Year 2 of the Bengie Molina Era.

Centerfield Dec 21 2009 03:10 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Wow. That was completely undouchebaggery. Bravo Howard Megdal. I may not agree whole-heartedly with everything, he makes good points and good sense.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 21 2009 03:11 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm not familiar with Howard Megdal, but he seems quite rational. How did he manage to get an Internet column??

Indeed. He pops up on SNY and Mike Silva's site as a voice of reason every now and again, and is something of a self-styled poet laureate of Amazin' Avenue, as in this one, occasioned by rumors of a mystery team for Mr. Bay.

Obviously, we should trade him to the Red Sox for some 20-year-old Shaughnessys.

Farmer Ted Dec 21 2009 03:21 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Eff 'em both. Omar needs to give them a deadline or both offers are toast. Grow some balls, Omar. No one else wants them and you're already willing to overpay.

Rockin' Doc Dec 21 2009 07:45 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Megdal provides a refreshingly different viewpoint. Contrary to the doomsaying diatribes that are so often written by his colleagues, Megdal offers a balanced and well thought out plan for the Mets offseason. I do think the Mets need for Bay (or a similar player for left field) is greater than Megdal believes, but I agree wholeheartedly that there is no need to panic and overpay to get him.

Edgy DC Dec 21 2009 08:22 PM Re: The Mets Make Offers

I think Howard Medgal was cribbing from my brain. So far, however, he hasn't done this, and Mets fans should be grateful. I wanted to clap.

metirish Dec 22 2009 09:30 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Rosenthal with what seems to be a prevailing sentiment..... Don’t get me wrong -- the Mets are in serious discussions with Bay, and remain the leading contender to sign him. But Bay almost certainly would take less to sign with a less dysfunctional outfit. The longer these negotiations drag on, the greater the chances that other teams will jump into the bidding.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 22 2009 09:40 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="metirish"]Rosenthal with what seems to be a prevailing sentiment..... the Mets ... remain the leading contender to sign [Bay, who] almost certainly would take less to sign with a less dysfunctional outfit.

Really? How much less? $60M less? $5M less? A penny less? Here's an idea: Maybe the Mets could lower their offer to Bay if they themselves promise to be less dysfunctional next year.

smg58 Dec 22 2009 09:50 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

Bay's not taking less from anybody. He has the right to see if somebody jumps into the bidding, and in the meantime he's working under the assumption that the Mets believe they need him at least as much as he thinks he needs them. Last year Yankee fans spent a month complaining about Sabathia taking his time to respond to a far more generous offer than what Bay's getting. People questioned whether he really wanted to play for them, and whether he was worth the trouble. CC wound up signing for even more than what the Yankees initially offered. Presumably Yankee fans are no longer complaining. And they're presumably not complaining about the eight years and $180M given to a slightly above average (assuming UZR and +/- have some merit) defensive first baseman capable of an OPS+ close to 150. A more consistently (at least over the last three years) above average defensive left fielder capable of an OPS+ close to 140 is waiting for a better offer than 5 years and $75M, and people think he's going to be overpaid. Am I missing something?

attgig Dec 22 2009 11:08 AM Re: The Mets Make Offers

[quote="smg58":23pvwltf]Bay's not taking less from anybody. He has the right to see if somebody jumps into the bidding, and in the meantime he's working under the assumption that the Mets believe they need him at least as much as he thinks he needs them. [/quote:23pvwltf] the way the media's portraying it, it seems like the Mets need him hellavalot more than Bay needs (or wants) the Mets....