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Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Benjamin Grimm Dec 14 2009 01:34 PM

Sources: Jays, Phils talk Halladay-Lee blockbuster by Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi, FOXSports.com Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon, according to major-league sources. A three-team blockbuster that would send Halladay to the Phillies and Phillies left-hander Cliff Lee to another club is under discussion, sources say. A straight trade between the Phillies and Jays also is possible. Either way, there are strong indications that the Halladay talks are approaching a critical juncture. The only reasons for the Blue Jays right-hander to be in Philly would be to negotiate a contract extension, take a physical or both. The identity of the team that would acquire Lee is not known, but the possibilities would include the Angels, who could be on the verge of losing free-agent right-hander John Lackey to the Red Sox, and the Mariners. Halladay likely would agree to a contract extension with the Phillies to waive his no-trade clause. The Phillies would acquire prospects for Lee to help satisfy the Blue Jays' demands for Halladay, and also send prospects of their own to the Jays. Lee, signed for one more year at $9 million, will be a free agent after next season. The Phillies are uncertain of whether they can sign him, but by acquiring Halladay — and locking him up with an extension — they would secure an ace long-term. The trade is highly complex, sources say, with the Phillies receiving money from the Jays to help pay Halladay's salary next season. Halladay is owed $15.75 million, but that number could be negotiated down as part of a new contract agreement. One source with knowledge of the Mariners' plans said Jack Zduriencik is looking for two starting pitchers — not just one — and that the team has contemplated dealing for Lee in recent days. Seattle officials would prefer to have Felix Hernandez as their No. 1 starter, followed by the two new pitchers, then Ryan Rowland-Smith at No. 4 and Ian Snell at No. 5. Brandon Morrow, who has value in the rotation or bullpen, could be the No. 3 starter if he is not traded.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 14 2009 01:36 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

So the Phillies would gain Holliday and lose Lee. The Blue Jays would be giving up a pitcher in his walk year and getting another pitcher in his walk year. I've read reports that say Lee is going to look to get $23 million per year. If so, how does this help the Blue Jays? Is it better to lose Lee as a free agent than to lose Holliday? And is Holliday that much better than Lee, that this appreciably helps the Phillies? I guess we'd have to factor in whichever prospects get shuffled around, but this deal, as reported, seems like a low-impact blockbuster to me. Is there something I'm missing?

Fman99 Dec 14 2009 01:38 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Is Halladay really that much of an upgrade over Lee? I don't think so. This bothers me not a bit.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 14 2009 01:40 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

The thing is that Lee would go to another club for prospects who'd then go to the Jays, if I understand the above properly. Halladay's the shizznit and all, but I dunno if I'd necessarily want to be the club that signs him to his next extension. And losing Lee while getting him doesn;t bother me as a Met fan all that much. Than again, I admire a team with the stones to trade for Cliff Lee then trade him away in a couple of months.

metirish Dec 14 2009 01:47 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

This deal is so complex I'm surprised the Yankees are not involved.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 14 2009 02:06 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Heymasn sez this is a done deal, with Lee going to the Mariners. Not sure who all Toronto gets.

metirish Dec 14 2009 02:09 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

How about the Mariners....wow... I take whatever solace I can and be happy that the Mets will not be facing a twosome of Lee and Halladay.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 14 2009 02:10 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Wow. As I (and others) have stated above, as a Mets fan, I don't see too much cause for concern here. The Phillies adding Holliday and subtracting Lee probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference. But if the Red Sox are spending on Lackey, and the Mariners (perhaps) on Lee, does that mean less competition for the Mets for Jason Bay's services? I guess we'll see.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 14 2009 02:11 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 14 2009 02:23 PM

Amen. This does set them up for years to come a lot better than a year of Lee/Halladay/Hamels would, though (or, arguably, than standing pat). Lee's inclusion means that guys like Drabek and Happ and Brown stay in Philly to develop or move in other trade(Taylor, the rumormongers say, will likely go to Toronto, along with whatever prospects Lee's trade secures from the Mariners). It also means that, if Halladay doesn't regress, they might have an ace-level guy at a 4-year-deal (say) that's likely cheaper than what Lee will command after next year (as a younger lefty coming off CY and WS MVP wins). Getting Halladay this way means Amaro makes a (at worst) sideways move for this year while holding onto his major minor-league resources and making the team's major-league product more solid over the next 2-3 years. Like I said before, I wish they'd never fired Wade. (Or-- hell-- Gillick.)

metirish Dec 14 2009 02:13 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

At the rate I'd not be surprised if the Mariners go get Bay.

HahnSolo Dec 14 2009 02:17 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Lackey to Boston? Halladay to Philly? Cue the moron WFAN callers and Daily News baseball columnists.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 14 2009 02:41 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Joel Sherman is already salivating at the prospect that the M's pass along Cleto and the other prospect the Mets coughed up for Putz last year, as their part of the deal. Toldya that trade sucked!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 14 2009 02:42 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

[quote="HahnSolo"]Lackey to Boston? Halladay to Philly? Cue the moron WFAN callers and Daily News baseball columnists.

WHO WRITES A YELLOW COLUMN IN THE NEXT WEEK ABOUT THE METS' "FAILURE" TO LAND HALLADAY OR LACKEY?

Off the board: Wallace Matthews

Bill Madden 1:3
Joel Sherman 1:2
John Harper 1:1
Ken Davidoff 3:1
Bart Hubbuch 7:2
Kevin Kernan 5:1
Adam Rubin 5:1
Mike Lupica 10:1
Marty Noble 12:1
Filip Bondy 12:1
Mike Vaccaro 12:1
David Lennon 15:1
Jon Heyman 20:1
Bill Gallo 50:1
Ashley Dupre: 2000:1 (Much more likely to give Omar a handy)

attgig Dec 14 2009 02:52 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

wondering what kind of dough halladay's going to get... santana money? sabathia money?

Edgy DC Dec 14 2009 02:57 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Twenty cranes on Loop.

metsguyinmichigan Dec 14 2009 03:27 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Bill Madden 1:3 Joel Sherman 1:2 John Harper 1:1 Ken Davidoff 3:1 Bart Hubbuch 7:2 Kevin Kernan 5:1 Adam Rubin 5:1 Mike Lupica 10:1 Marty Noble 12:1 Filip Bondy 12:1 Mike Vaccaro 12:1 David Lennon 15:1 Jon Heyman 20:1 Bill Gallo 50:1 Ashley Dupre: 2000:1 (Much more likely to give Omar a handy) I'm going off the board and saying Bob Klapisch, with the double points should be throw in a reference to Vladi Guerrero!

Farmer Ted Dec 14 2009 04:26 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Mariners getting Bay loses traction IMHO unless Paul Allen suddenly becomes a majority partner.

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2009 05:05 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

[quote="attgig":1auk21ek]wondering what kind of dough halladay's going to get... santana money? sabathia money?[/quote:1auk21ek] He deserves per/yr what those guys are getting - although he's not as young and therefore makes it risky if Philly decides to give him the same length.

smg58 Dec 14 2009 05:30 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Speculation is running wild right now. I'm sure I'll have plenty to say once I know who's going where and what Halladay is signing for.

Valadius Dec 14 2009 06:38 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Meanwhile, Omar is playing tiddlywinks.

Edgy DC Dec 14 2009 06:42 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Do you believe that for a moment?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 15 2009 12:09 AM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Ken Rosenthal and Bob Elliott (Toronto Sun) have Philly giving up everything short of Dominic Brown for Big Roy: P Kyle Drabek, OF Michael Taylor and probably C Travis D'Arnaud are headed to Toronto. P Phillippe Aumont (Seattle's 2007 1st rounder), OF Tyson Gillies and a third player are apparently headed to Philadelphia, in exchange for Cliff Lee and an additional Phillies prospect.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 15 2009 12:25 AM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Wow. If that's the case, I don't see the point of the trade for Philly. They get a little better next year, but they really hurt themselves long-term (I think, anyway).

smg58 Dec 15 2009 06:20 AM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

This is how it looks as of now. The Blue Jays get from the Phillies: Kyle Drabek -- bounced back nicely from injury-plagued 2008. Was decent but not spectacular after promotion to AA. Two years older than Mejia, but only slightly closer to the majors. Michael Taylor -- 24 in a couple of days, but has little left to prove in the minors. Looks solid. Travis D'Arnaud -- catcher is three years younger than Thole, and about where Thole was two years ago in development. The Phillies get: $6M from the Blue Jays -- it's outrageous that the Jays have to eat any portion of Halladay's $16M contract. The Mets could have paid for Halladay in full and also taken Overbay's $7M, and still be below last year's payroll. plus three prospects from the Mariners. Phillipe Aumont -- Quebec native throws strikes, but a 5.09 ERA out of the pen after promotion to AA makes him look very expendable. Tyson Gillies -- another Canadian. 44 steals and a .430 OBP in high A make you take notice. He may take some of the sting out of losing Taylor, but a lot can happen between A-ball and the majors. Juan Ramirez -- 23 and hasn't seen AA yet. Numbers don't impress, but he was pitching in an extreme hitters environment. The Mariners win this deal. The difference in the prospect packages is bigger than the difference between Halladay and Lee. As for the Mets, we couldn't match Taylor, but we have very comparable guys to the other two. We would have been more generous financially, and we could also have accommodated the Jays with a choice of two decent shortstop prospects (widely reported to be on their wish list). We can debate whether it would have been prudent to beat the Phillies' offer, but we could have beaten it if we wanted to.

Edgy DC Dec 15 2009 07:08 AM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Oh, certainly. That's almost always true. But if it's debateable whether the Phils did the right thing, it's certainly debateable whether topping them would have been smart.

metirish Dec 15 2009 07:19 AM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Could the Jays have gotten more in trading him last seaon at the deadline?

Frayed Knot Dec 15 2009 07:26 AM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

Phillipe Aumont -- Quebec native throws strikes, but a 5.09 ERA out of the pen after promotion to AA makes him look very expendable. We will get to heet the Canadian * * 'In Bruges' joke

themetfairy Dec 15 2009 07:54 AM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

[quote="Frayed Knot"] * 'In Bruges' joke

Fucking Bruges.....


(Great film )

attgig Dec 15 2009 08:43 AM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

[quote="metirish":39hqvnsw]Could the Jays have gotten more in trading him last seaon at the deadline?[/quote:39hqvnsw] that was a diff gm who didn't know what he was doing... good job jp. as for the phils, the rumbling is that cliff lee was way too far off in terms of agreeing on a contract with the phils, that they decided to trade for hallady who they could lock up to a decent deal. still no news on the $ involved.

smg58 Dec 15 2009 09:18 AM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

[quote="Edgy DC":2gch83n6]Oh, certainly. That's almost always true. But if it's debateable whether the Phils did the right thing, it's certainly debateable whether topping them would have been smart.[/quote:2gch83n6] The exchange between the Phillies and Toronto looks reasonable to me, outside of the Jays eating some money. The exchange between the Phillies and the Mariners looks completely senseless, on the other hand.

attgig Dec 15 2009 12:02 PM Re: Roy Halladay is in Philadelphia and may be a Phillie soon

all halladay needed was 3 year 60 mil? seems like he could've gotten a lot more if he waited a year.... even with the risk of injury. stay in the AL (no batting), pitch a year, and get a better deal next season. hope he got something better than that...