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2010 lineup

Mex17 Dec 20 2009 08:48 AM

Assuming that the Mets make these two signings (Bay and Molina) I think that this is the best combination. It is slightly controversial, so I would appreciate thoughts. . . 1) Reyes-ss 2) Castillo-2b 3) Wright-3b 4) Beltran-CF 5) Bay-LF 6) Murphy-1b 7) Francoeur-RF 8) Molina-C 9) pitcher Why Murphy ahead of the more powerful hitters like Frenchy and Molina? Two reasons. a) In being lefthanded, he balances out the lineup better at that spot b) In having the better "eye" for the plate, compared particularly to the more free-swinging Francoeur, having him ahead of Frenchy potentially creates more RBI situations.

Frayed Knot Dec 20 2009 09:09 AM Re: 2010 lineup

Not sure what you consider so controversial. The "controversial" move that should be made (but won't) from your list is swapping Castillo & Reyes. In a sane world the idea of having the higher OBA guy w/o power hitting in front of the lower OBA guy with should be an easy choice, but I think the Mets are too tied into Reyes's "identity" as a leadoff hitter and are unwilling to stand up to the fans and columnists who are sure to spout empty plaudits about how Jose is too "dynamic" up top to hit anywhere else. Jerry briefly floated the idea last spring (talked about Reyes hitting 3rd even) but not only never tried it more than once or twice even in ST games but somehow never managed to slide Luis up even when Reyes was gone and Castillo was getting on base at a 40% clip for much of the season, instead handing the top spot was handed to a seemingly endless parade of tryouts. It was almost as if they were afraid Castillo leading off would prove successful and they didn't want to set themselves up to answer a bunch of questions about whether this meant that Jose would be "demoted" come 2010.

Rockin' Doc Dec 20 2009 09:16 AM Re: 2010 lineup

Personally, I would prefer the Mets to not sign Molina. I don't see him as being worth the monetary (and time) commitment he and his agent seek. I think that a combination of Santos, Blanco, Coste and possibly Thole should be sufficient to fill the catching slot and hit before the pitcher. The Mets could get far more of an upgrade for their money than what Molina would provide. I would prefer the Mets use the money to land Bay (or Holliday) and/or to solidify the starting pitching.

Valadius Dec 20 2009 09:19 AM Re: 2010 lineup

I'm with RD. Molina seems like a colossal bust waiting to happen.

Mex17 Dec 20 2009 10:08 AM Re: 2010 lineup

I think that the tought process in that Molina stands the best chance to straighten out the heads of the likes of Pelfrey and Perez. Thereby the pitching improves without actually changing a lot of the pitchers themselves.

Mex17 Dec 20 2009 10:11 AM Re: 2010 lineup

"Not sure what you consider so controversial." I'm sure that a lot of folks would want to bunch all the power together. So they would balk at Francoeur and, to a lesser extent Molina, hitting behind Murphy. I think however that my combo creates more balance and also more run producing opportunities at the bottom end of the lineup.

Edgy DC Dec 20 2009 11:12 AM Re: 2010 lineup

[quote="Valadius":8wtbzea6]I'm with RD. Molina seems like a colossal bust waiting to happen.[/quote:8wtbzea6] Yeah, but... he hasn't been signed yet, and, bust or not, he's not likely to drop any lower than ninth. So relative to the lineup, his bustiness isn't much of an issue. And they're likely to spread the catching love around a lot under any circumstances.

Gwreck Dec 20 2009 12:54 PM Re: 2010 lineup

I'd switch Delgado for Murphy.

Frayed Knot Dec 20 2009 01:34 PM Re: 2010 lineup

[quote="Mex17":12awvccb]"Not sure what you consider so controversial." I'm sure that a lot of folks would want to bunch all the power together. So they would balk at Francoeur and, to a lesser extent Molina, hitting behind Murphy. I think however that my combo creates more balance and also more run producing opportunities at the bottom end of the lineup.[/quote:12awvccb] Personally I think you could take that situation and interchange Muffy, Frenchy & Bengy in whatever order you want and it wouldn't make a dime's worth of difference.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 20 2009 02:37 PM Re: 2010 lineup

[quote="Frayed Knot":2rl752kf] In a sane world the idea of having the higher OBA guy w/o power hitting in front of the lower OBA guy with should be an easy choice, but I think the Mets are too tied into Reyes's "identity" as a leadoff hitter and are unwilling to stand up to the fans and columnists who are sure to spout empty plaudits about how Jose is too "dynamic" up top to hit anywhere else. Jerry briefly floated the idea last spring (talked about Reyes hitting 3rd even) but not only never tried it more than once or twice even in ST games but somehow never managed to slide Luis up even when Reyes was gone and Castillo was getting on base at a 40% clip for much of the season, instead handing the top spot was handed to a seemingly endless parade of tryouts. It was almost as if they were afraid Castillo leading off would prove successful and they didn't want to set themselves up to answer a bunch of questions about whether this meant that Jose would be "demoted" come 2010.[/quote:2rl752kf] Or they don't really understand how to get the most value out of their lineup. I'd say it's a coin-toss between the two.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 20 2009 02:40 PM Re: 2010 lineup

[quote="Mex17"]I think that the thought process should be that improved team defense from every position BUT catcher stands the best chance to straighten out the runs-allowed numbers of the likes of Pelfrey and Perez. Thereby the pitching improves without actually changing a lot of the pitchers themselves.

Fixed.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 20 2009 04:13 PM Re: 2010 lineup

[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]Or they don't really understand how to get the most value out of their lineup. I'd say it's a coin-toss between the two.

This particular point is confirmed whenever Castillo squares around to sac bunt in the first inning because notwithstanding the overall insanity of sac bunting in the first inning, why would the team ever ask the player that statistically, might be the likeliest Met to get on base and not make an out ... to make an out?

Talk about wasting a player's strongest attribute....

But yeah, it's a no-brainer that Castillo should be batting leadoff.

Frayed Knot Dec 20 2009 04:56 PM Re: 2010 lineup

Are you against bunting, Mags? If so you really should have said something earlier. Anyway, I think they listen to that record with a skip on it that says: fastest guy leads off and second guy bunts him over - skip - fastest guy leads off and second guy bunts him over - skip - fastest guy leads ... oh you get the picture. Problem is that not only that the record is about as old as the ones CBS-FM used to play but that many of the fans and writers still listen to it too and I honestly think much of the team's trepidation about going against that line of thinking is that they don't want to face the barrage of questions and criticisms that would come by making such a "unorthodox" move and about how it's a slap that displays a total lack of confidence in Reyes.

Edgy DC Dec 20 2009 05:17 PM Re: 2010 lineup

It certainly was last year. Jerry had a bad season last year, and I have a lot of things to point to in my assertion. But few things bothered me than him batting Castillo second. I don't get animated about it because whatever, they would have been a fourth-place team anyhow, with the injuries. But it didn't bother me so much for it's own sake. Yeah, he was a better bet than Pagan (and certainly Cora before him) to reach base. But the idea seemed to be that Jerry thought that the Mets were so starved for offense that they needed him batting second, in order to serve as designated bunter. Because Jerry needed to get the Mets that single run if he could get someone on before Castillo. I can handle Reyes staying at leadoff instead of Castillo. I can't well tolerate batting Castillo second because Jerry is planning sacrifices before the game even starts.

attgig Dec 20 2009 05:25 PM Re: 2010 lineup

I find it controversial that Murphy is still our starting 1bman.

Edgy DC Dec 20 2009 06:08 PM Re: 2010 lineup

That's a curious choice of adjectives.

metirish Dec 20 2009 06:15 PM Re: 2010 lineup

I read online that Bay's agent is trying to get Boston back in the picture....

batmagadanleadoff Dec 20 2009 06:40 PM Re: 2010 lineup

[quote="Frayed Knot":yfcfry7e]Are you against bunting, Mags? If so you really should have said something earlier.[/quote:yfcfry7e] This reminds me of how much I hated Willie Randolph. Did I ever tell you how much I hated Willie Randolph? I'll work up a post on how much I hated Willie Randolph one of these days.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 20 2009 09:05 PM Re: 2010 lineup

[quote="batmagadanleadoff"] This reminds me of how much I hated Willie Randolph. Did I ever tell you how much I hated Willie Randolph?

WHAAAAAA?

All joking aside, if last year was indicative of what we're getting out of Manuel going forward, I'd almost rather have Willie back at this point. His lineup management is trying, to say the least, but the Church-slagging after Dabidrye's 'cussion was the tipping point. Giving him the benefit of the doubt takes work for me now.

Centerfield Dec 22 2009 09:10 AM Re: 2010 lineup

That is one suckass lineup. Take a look at the bottom of it with last year's OPS: 6) Murphy-1b - .742 7) Francoeur-RF .732 8) Molina-C .727 9) pitcher Even with Bay, we are looking at a lineup that lacks any depth whatsoever. It's inexcusable to get that sort of production from a corner outfield position and first base. Even if it's just bringing back Delgado, they have to do something to get offense in there. This lineup would suck even if these guys were playing for the minimum, but if you think of the money tied up in Francouer and Molina, it's enough to make you spit. I concede there's nothing much you can do at catcher. But you can go cheap and not spend $6 million for suck.

metirish Dec 22 2009 09:18 AM Re: 2010 lineup

What you complaining about?.....that's a combined OPS of .2201.....WOW

attgig Dec 22 2009 09:32 AM Re: 2010 lineup

[quote="Centerfield":r6z7671r]That is one suckass lineup. Take a look at the bottom of it with last year's OPS: 6) Murphy-1b - .742 7) Francoeur-RF .732 8) Molina-C .727 9) pitcher[/quote:r6z7671r] Francoeur's time wiht the mets produced an 836 OPS. so, I'm cautiously optimistic that the 732 goes up a bunch.... though not great for your starting RFer.