Master Index of Archived Threads
Rank Your 2009 Mets
| Edgy MD Dec 18 2009 07:19 AM |
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There were a million of them. Feel free to rank them all. I just need your top 30.
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| metirish Dec 18 2009 07:21 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Tobi Stoner would be my Takahashi , I have zero memory of him.
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| G-Fafif Dec 18 2009 07:40 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Spiritually they are all tied for 53rd.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2009 07:46 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Switzer is my Stoner
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| Benjamin Grimm Dec 18 2009 07:48 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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There's a country in Europe that's full of guys like Switzer.
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| Edgy MD Dec 18 2009 07:59 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Switzer, like Ken Tak, was auditioned for the hard-to-fill second-lefty-out-of-the-pen role.
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| 86-Dreamer Dec 18 2009 09:27 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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1 Johan Santana
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 18 2009 09:27 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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I remember Switzer, because he came in to face Hideki Matsui with two on during the "Dos Manos" game, and ended up giving up a bomb to RF. (His debut?)
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2009 09:31 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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I have some vague memory of Stoner "pulling a Milledge" -- i.e., not knowing his place, Rook -- but I've already forgotten it. Was there a specific episode or something? I know it was only 3 months ago, feels like 5 years.
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| TransMonk Dec 18 2009 09:35 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 18 2009 10:15 AM |
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30 David Wright
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2009 09:38 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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I haven't even looked at the numbers but I can tell you right now that Parnell belongs higher than several guys on your list (Sullivan, Misch, Takahashi, Redding), simply as a function of being there all year.
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| Edgy MD Dec 18 2009 09:44 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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In recent weeks, Stoner has been buzzed about the blogosphere as a dark horse for the Mets rotation. Really good control, but like Pelfrey, having trouble finding an out pitch.
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| G-Fafif Dec 18 2009 09:53 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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BoC sentence fragment nominee.
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| TransMonk Dec 18 2009 09:57 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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I disagree. 88.1 IP of a 78 ERA+ (Parnell) is worth less to me than: Misch - 59 IP of a 100 ERA+ Redding - 120 IP of an 81 ERA+ Sullivan - 157 PA of a 92 OPS+ I could probably be talked into moving Takahashi down on my list as he had only 27.1 IP of a 139 ERA+, but Parnell was the crappiest pitcher that was there all year.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 18 2009 10:03 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Right, but shouldn't he get some bonus for having been considered more valuable than some of those others who were added to later or sent down sooner or not as durable as he was?
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| Edgy MD Dec 18 2009 10:09 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Yup. Parnell was effective as a reliever, and ineffective as a starter pretty much after the Mets had thrown in the towel by shutting Santana down.
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| TransMonk Dec 18 2009 10:15 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Sold. I've moved him up from 1 to 5.
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| Benjamin Grimm Dec 18 2009 10:20 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Really? That's interesting...
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 18 2009 10:23 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 18 2009 10:45 AM |
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30 Wright
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| Vic Sage Dec 18 2009 10:24 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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30 Johan Santana
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| seawolf17 Dec 18 2009 11:23 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Fossum is the guy I don't remember getting big league time. Thought he was just a ST/AAA arm. Oh, and WTF? Elmer Dessens pitched in 28 games for us this year? I don't remember a single one.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 19 2009 08:14 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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As I suspected coming in to this, this season is going to produce a real wide variety of answers with certain players ranking near the top of some lists and sinking to the bottom of others. When we get a few more responses and some sort of consensus starts to emerge it’ll be a good spot for folks to make an argument for their choices - particularly in those spots where they vary from the pack.
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| Edgy MD Dec 19 2009 08:24 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Good job. Where does Reed fall? He's kind of stuck in the middle of Sullivan's name.
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| Frayed Knot Dec 19 2009 09:04 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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After Sullivan. I put them together like that because the two were virtual statistical twins vying for the same role; one could call them the Suck and Suck-A of backup OFers.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 19 2009 09:25 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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There's no way that Reed makes my list. Marginal defensive value... and he made Schneider look good with the bat by comparison.
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| Benjamin Grimm Dec 19 2009 10:07 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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The Schaefer voting results:
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| metirish Dec 19 2009 10:12 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Going purely on memory and a whole lot of pain from that memory here you go
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| Ashie62 Dec 19 2009 01:13 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Hopefully into a ditch
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| Frayed Knot Dec 21 2009 05:27 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Pitchers:
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| Frayed Knot Dec 21 2009 05:59 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Combined list.
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| Edgy MD Dec 21 2009 08:17 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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It seemed silly to see Redding above Hernandez, but I checked the stats and they support that ranking. (I'd be tempted to put Maine above Livan also.)
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 21 2009 08:27 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Were Redding physically able he'd have raised Hernandez several notches on this list simply by getting him off the team sooner. Maybe he had a good September but Redding to me was a complete disaster: Unable to deliver the very depth he was acquired to provide because he showed up out of shape.
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| Nymr83 Dec 21 2009 08:49 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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based on a very rough weighing in my head of OPS+/ERA+/defense/AB/IP
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| Edgy MD Dec 21 2009 09:13 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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LeiterWagner, I'll roll with Valdez over Cora, but no room for Sean Green?
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 21 2009 10:47 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Green's WPA numbers-- which I looked at a little more heavily for relievers (since situation meant so much more for situational guys)-- were atrocious.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 10 2010 08:31 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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All right folks, we all got some ‘splainin’ to do.
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| John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 10 2010 09:21 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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I still intend to turn in my homework, sorry.
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| metsmarathon Jan 15 2010 09:49 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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so i'm looking through my schaeffer voting, and here's my rankings based on that:
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| metirish Jan 15 2010 10:03 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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On Pelfrey , it seems I was lower on the guy that the Schaefer voting results show....I dunno but he disappointed to me. Led the team in innings as FK noted, is that a big thing on that team with the way the season went?
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| Vic Sage Jan 15 2010 10:47 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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i'm revising my rankings, basing them more on WAR, plus subjective adjustments thereafter:
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| Frayed Knot Jan 16 2010 06:15 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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The idea isn’t to worry about how far you’re away from the Schaefer results. That result is just one factor thrown into this project and, as far as I’m concerned, it’s the least accurate because it’s not really measuring the same thing. The reason I parsed the votes from those who have put in lists so far is to show where there are significant differences as compared to the opinions of all the others. That isn’t to say a stray vote means you’re wrong and the others right, only that you’ve got a very different view of that player(s) which could serve as a starting point for a discussion, one where you either re-evaluate your own choices or to stick to your guns and tell the rest of us why we’re missing the boat. For instance: - What logic did 86-Dreamer use to put Tatis a full 13 slots behind the statistically similar Sheffield? Or why Maine is, in his mind, so far (11 spots) ahead of Pelfrey when the rest of us have those two pretty close? Or why he has Cora much higher than everyone? Or why does F. Martinez make his list but not Misch, Sullivan, or Castro? - Transmonk puts Sean Green in the middle of the pack while LWFS leaves him off completely! Either of them want to argue where the other one is nuts? - Maybe LWFS wants to tell us how Frankie Rod had a worse season than Church, Castro, Maine, and others, including Niese and his whopping 25 IPs. - Fartinez had all of 91 ABs and batted a whopping .176 yet he scores better than Church, Green, Misch, and Redding on Met Irish’s list. Remember, we're evaluating a player's 2009 performance here not his anticipated future or contract status. - Seawolf, meanwhile, not only finds room for Ollie but puts him on instead of Thole, Sullivan, or Niese, and ahead of the likes of Church, Figueroa, Nieve and others. - Cora was, for the most part, the starting SS and Parnell was 5th in the team in IP yet Nymr leaves both off but finds room for AndyHandy & Dessens ... plus the other large discrepancies I pointed earlier. And again, if those are your choices then feel free to tell the rest of us where we’re off. Or you can opt to concede some points and argue others. The idea of this project is to have a post-mortem discussion of the year and not merely submit top-of-the-head lists and be done with it. Hell, we argue about everything else here it would be a shame to skip this topic.
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| Edgy MD Jan 16 2010 06:54 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Them's some headscratchers.
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| Benjamin Grimm Jan 16 2010 07:50 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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I'm kinda late here, but here are my rankings:
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| Frayed Knot Jan 16 2010 09:27 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Dessens and Takahashi get big love from Grimm and Transmonk but a symbolic back of the hand from just about everyone else.
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| Chad Ochoseis Jan 16 2010 01:51 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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30 David Wright
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| metsmarathon Jan 16 2010 03:04 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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were delgado's 26 games so tremendously good that they outweigh daniel murphy's 155, and jose reyes' 36?
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| Chad Ochoseis Jan 16 2010 04:32 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Delgado: 112 PA, 4 HR, 23 RBI, .298/.393/.521 (BA/OBP/SLG)
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| Nymr83 Jan 17 2010 12:06 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Cora's exclusion was intentional, i dont give points for attendance. Parnell deserves consideration because he was a serviceable reliever before being pushed into starting duty in largely meaningless games, i'll look more closely at him when i revise (which wont be at 2am on a sunday)
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| Edgy MD Jan 17 2010 05:53 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Not that I believe in the notion of "meaningful games," but if there is such a thing, Anderson Hernandez didn't get into too many of them, arriving after the first week of August.
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| Edgy MD Jan 17 2010 12:26 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Cora didn't just show up.
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| Chad Ochoseis Jan 17 2010 01:58 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jan 17 2010 03:08 PM |
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Just for grins, I put together a table showing the scores that we've given so far, along with average and standard deviation. Schaefer is excluded from the averaging stats.
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| Benjamin Grimm Jan 17 2010 02:00 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Yes. Get rid of the linefeeds within your "html". Your table should look like one big fat paragraph. If you do that, the blank space will disappear from your post.
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| Edgy MD Jan 17 2010 07:53 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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| Frayed Knot Jan 17 2010 08:07 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Does that come with a code translator or do we need security clearance first?
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| Edgy MD Jan 17 2010 08:15 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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What's to know? I crunched them around and ranked them. Publishing my total points are useful in knowing how big the gaps were between players.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 18 2010 06:39 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Well either I was mis-reading the chart last night (always possible ... late at night, alcohol) or that first column has been fixed because the numbers looked out of order and I couldn't figure out what was what.
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| Edgy MD Jan 18 2010 07:29 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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No, I did find some out of order. I don't know why it sorted wrong. Sorry.
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| Edgy MD Jan 18 2010 07:32 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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I've got Pelfrey buried. I've got to double check ihim.
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| Edgy MD Jan 18 2010 08:15 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Fugit. Knock Wagner the hell out of there. He's artifically boosted by an arbitrary number. Two excelelnt innings are still TWO. Scheider becomes number two and Mixch number one.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 18 2010 08:21 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Yeah, I was gonna mention that for a guy who usually preaches the idea that those who put in the time have to be at least somewhat rewarded, you've got the 1, 3 & 4 guys in innings pitched (Pelfrey, Livan, Redding) buried behind a bunch of short-timers - Wagner was the most obvious, but also the likes of Dessens, Takahashi, Castro, etc.
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| Benjamin Grimm Jan 18 2010 08:38 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Well, Dessens and Takahashi each pitched in 28 games, which isn't a lot but is more than a little, and did pretty well. (Dessens had a 3.31 ERA and Takahashi's was 2.96)
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| Edgy MD Jan 18 2010 09:37 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Well Perez pitched at replcaement rate, so I've got no apologies for him.
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| Frayed Knot Jan 25 2010 12:00 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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This has to be a first in our years of doing this as a consensus year-end ranking, that 11 different players were simultaneously ranked in the top half by some folks and off the chart completely by others:
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| Frayed Knot Mar 10 2010 08:17 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Several folks here claim to either be working or re-working on something here.
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| Vic Sage Mar 10 2010 09:28 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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okay, this is my last revision:
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| Frayed Knot May 12 2010 05:13 PM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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Unless someone - or several someones - have more to say on this topic, this is how our 2009 Rankings finished up:
This is counting votes from: 86-Dreamer; TransMonk; LWFS; Vic Sage; Seawolf; MetIrish; Frayed Knot; Nymr83; Ben Grimm; Chad 86; Edgy DC
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| Frayed Knot May 26 2010 07:03 AM Re: Rank Your 2009 Mets |
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...
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