Master Index of Archived Threads
2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting
Kevin Appier | 0 votes |
Roberto Alomar | 28 votes |
Harold Baines | 1 votes |
Bert Blyleven | 23 votes |
Ellis Burks | 0 votes |
Andre Dawson | 10 votes |
Andrés Galarraga | 1 votes |
Dwight Gooden | 2 votes |
Pat Hentgen | 0 votes |
Mike Jackson | 0 votes |
Eric Karros | 0 votes |
Ray Lankford | 0 votes |
Barry Larkin | 22 votes |
Edgar Martinez | 22 votes |
Don Mattingly | 1 votes |
Fred McGriff | 6 votes |
Mark McGwire | 14 votes |
Jack Morris | 5 votes |
Dale Murphy | 6 votes |
Dave Parker | 2 votes |
Tim Raines | 23 votes |
Shane Reynolds | 0 votes |
David Segui | 0 votes |
Lee Smith | 2 votes |
Alan Trammell | 18 votes |
Robin Ventura | 0 votes |
Todd Zeile | 0 votes |
Edgy DC Jan 03 2010 06:56 PM |
New voting procedures allow us to vote like the pros do!
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seawolf17 Jan 03 2010 07:33 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Gooden?
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Valadius Jan 03 2010 07:44 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Dammit Edgy, you're going to taint the voting pool with Gooden in there.
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Valadius Jan 03 2010 08:42 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
There is some serious Dawson-hate going on here and I don't get it.
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Vince Coleman Firecracker Jan 03 2010 08:48 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Valadius":34o1y2b6]There is some serious Dawson-hate going on here and I don't get it.[/quote:34o1y2b6]
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Ashie62 Jan 03 2010 08:53 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Somebody voted for Dwight Gooden?
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 03 2010 09:41 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Vince Coleman Firecracker":13fa1rwq][quote="Valadius":13fa1rwq]There is some serious Dawson-hate going on here and I don't get it.[/quote:13fa1rwq]
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Valadius Jan 03 2010 09:46 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Vince Coleman Firecracker":ptdbgmrr][quote="Valadius":ptdbgmrr]There is some serious Dawson-hate going on here and I don't get it.[/quote:ptdbgmrr]
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 03 2010 09:53 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Valadius":fqp3ixsv][quote="Vince Coleman Firecracker":fqp3ixsv][quote="Valadius":fqp3ixsv]There is some serious Dawson-hate going on here and I don't get it.[/quote:fqp3ixsv]
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Gwreck Jan 03 2010 10:01 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Did you notice that on the list you produced, Dawson's OBP is only better than the bottom three?
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Valadius Jan 03 2010 10:08 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Sure, but there are exceptions to every rule.
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Vince Coleman Firecracker Jan 03 2010 10:13 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Valadius":2urush2p]
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Frayed Knot Jan 03 2010 10:14 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
I give you:
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Edgy DC Jan 04 2010 04:20 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
It's hard to figure out who hits the 75% threshold. Instead of listing above the percentage of ballots a player appears on, they list the percentage of votes for the player over total votes cast. I voted first, voted for five guys, and then each of them had a "20%" next to his name. That's not very helpful.
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Edgy DC Jan 04 2010 04:22 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Valadius":30wbrgwc]Sure, but there are exceptions to every rule.[/quote:30wbrgwc]
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metsguyinmichigan Jan 04 2010 07:07 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
I could go either way on Dawson. He has Steve Henderson's ROY award, and Darryl's MVP!
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TheOldMole Jan 04 2010 08:14 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
For a lot of people, Maranville is the poster boy for "shouldn't be in the Hall," but the guy played 19 seasons as a full time regular at shortstop, which is not unimpressive.
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Edgy DC Jan 04 2010 08:18 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
I don't think DH is a position. It's the absence of a position.
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Willets Point Jan 04 2010 08:21 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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Benjamin Grimm Jan 04 2010 08:23 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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metsguyinmichigan Jan 04 2010 08:38 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Benjamin Grimm"] |
MFS62 Jan 04 2010 08:43 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 04 2010 08:50 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
I voted for 6 guys, all of the top-6 vote-getters on the list.
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Vic Sage Jan 04 2010 09:48 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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Gwreck Jan 04 2010 09:55 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
I voted: Alomar, McGwire, Blyleven, Martinez.
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HahnSolo Jan 04 2010 10:05 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
I voted. Do I have to cut and paste the picture?
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seawolf17 Jan 04 2010 10:10 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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themetfairy Jan 04 2010 10:12 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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Edgy DC Jan 04 2010 10:13 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="HahnSolo":aw26o2tk]I voted. Do I have to cut and paste the picture?[/quote:aw26o2tk]
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 04 2010 10:13 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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Nymr83 Jan 04 2010 10:22 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="themetfairy"] |
Edgy DC Jan 04 2010 10:25 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
LWFS gives a pretty compelling argument for Edgy Martinez. That career .418 OBP is tastey.
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Frayed Knot Jan 04 2010 10:34 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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MFS62 Jan 04 2010 10:55 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Then in how many games does a player have to wear a glove before he crosses the border? Martinez' 3 - 4 seasons is too few IMO. It is less than half of the 10 year eligibility required for the Hall. And I feel if you let him in, it is (channelling Law and Order here) a "slippery slope".
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Edgy DC Jan 04 2010 11:02 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
I don't think it's a question of how many years or games or such he played defense, but how much he didn't accomplish there vs. how much he did accomplish above and beyond elsewise.
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batmagadanleadoff Jan 04 2010 11:03 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="MFS62"]Then in how many games does a player have to wear a glove before he crosses the border? Martinez' 3 - 4 seasons is too few IMO. It is less than half of the 10 year eligibility required for the Hall. And I feel if you let him in, it is (channelling Law and Order here) a "slippery slope". |
LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 04 2010 11:11 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
You could make a case that Thomas-- not to mention each one of an elephant's shitload of HOFed oldsters-- would've been more valuable to his teams as a full-time DH, and that Edgar was therefore MORE valuable than an equivalent-hitting number-- McCovey, say-- of the subpar-fielding, supreme-batting all-time squad.
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86-Dreamer Jan 04 2010 11:14 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Willets Point"] |
Benjamin Grimm Jan 04 2010 11:18 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Well, we know that there are at least 23 voters (since that's how many Alomar got) which means that for 75%, a player needs at least 18 votes.
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Edgy DC Jan 04 2010 11:32 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Well, the flags suggest we have 12 ballots cast, which suggests Alomar has been named 193% of all ballots! Take that, Seaver!
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 04 2010 11:36 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Edgy DC"]Well, the flags suggest we have 12 ballots cast, which suggests Alomar has been named 193% of all ballots! Take that, Seaver! |
bmfc1 Jan 04 2010 12:04 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 04 2010 12:07 PM |
If it helps your count, I voted. I wanted to vote for no one but didn't have that option.
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Edgy DC Jan 04 2010 12:04 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Yeah! Raise the flag!
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HahnSolo Jan 04 2010 12:40 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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Vince Coleman Firecracker Jan 04 2010 12:56 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 04 2010 12:57 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="bmfc1":34peocb6]If it helps your count, I voted. I wanted to vote for no one but didn't have that option.[/quote:34peocb6]
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bmfc1 Jan 04 2010 01:23 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":1r1b445f][quote="bmfc1":1r1b445f]If it helps your count, I voted. I wanted to vote for no one but didn't have that option.[/quote:1r1b445f]
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Vince Coleman Firecracker Jan 04 2010 01:53 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Trammell looks like he's falling short. I'd like to know why. There are 21 shortstops in the hall of fame (including Ernie Banks, John Ward, George Davis and mebbe a few others that played significant portions of their careers at other positions). Throw Larkin, A-Rod and Schmerrick Schmeeter in with that list. BBTF's hall of merit has 25 shortstops, throwing Bill Dahlen, Jack Glasscock, Pop Lloyd, Dick Lundy, Dobie Moore, Dickey Pearce, Willie Wells, George Wright and (natch) Alan Trammell into the discussion. That's 32 shortstops, ostensibly the best that ever played.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 04 2010 01:56 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="bmfc1"] |
metsguyinmichigan Jan 04 2010 02:11 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Trammell's a hero out here. Nice guy, too, from all reports. Whitaker deserved better than he got in the voting, too, dropping off very early. Tram's misfortune is that he came along just as Skank-Rod and Cal were changing the position.
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G-Fafif Jan 04 2010 02:16 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 04 2010 04:47 PM |
I'd vote for Roberto Alomar if he'd agree to retire before 2002.
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Vince Coleman Firecracker Jan 04 2010 03:56 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="metsguyinmichigan":1maddefs]Like Dawson, there would be worse players in the Hall if Tram got in.[/quote:1maddefs]
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Valadius Jan 04 2010 04:01 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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Valadius Jan 04 2010 04:48 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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Update from Baseball Think Factory:
I think Mattingly has a great shot of falling off the ballot this year. The collective sound of MFY fans' heads exploding will be delicious.
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Chad Ochoseis Jan 04 2010 06:51 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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Rockin' Doc Jan 04 2010 09:09 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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metsguyinmichigan Jan 04 2010 10:07 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/01/04/heyman.hall/index.html
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G-Fafif Jan 05 2010 02:28 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="metsguyinmichigan"][url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/01/04/heyman.hall/index.html |
Edgy DC Jan 05 2010 06:52 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
I disagree with Heyman a lot but never have I read so long and seen almost nothing there to agree or disagree with. After paragraph after paragraph getting around to why he didn't vote for Blyleven, he says nothing and nothing and nothing, until finally saying he didn't get enough Cy Young support.
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MFS62 Jan 05 2010 07:21 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Edgy DC":32r4tzxa]I disagree with Heyman a lot but never have I read so long and seen almost nothing there to agree or disagree with. After paragraph after paragraph getting around to why he didn't vote for Blyleven, he says nothing and nothing and nothing, until finally saying he didn't get enough Cy Young support.
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HahnSolo Jan 05 2010 08:00 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Jack Morris "was a general force in the American League!"
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Frayed Knot Jan 05 2010 08:07 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="HahnSolo":bl1upaa4]Jack Morris "was a general force in the American League!"[/quote:bl1upaa4]
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metsguyinmichigan Jan 05 2010 08:14 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
I get frustrated when he says things like McGwire is an "unrepentant alleged steroid user." I don't thing you can be both alleged and unrepentant. How can you repent if you are facing only allegations?
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Edgy DC Jan 05 2010 08:21 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="metsguyinmichigan":7t3n01hj]And I don't want to defend McGwire much, but the guy has been sheepishly in hiding since that congressional testimony. That's sort of repenting.[/quote:7t3n01hj]
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Valadius Jan 05 2010 08:47 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="metsguyinmichigan":m8k9zqkk]And I don't like this idea of "I didn't vote for him this year, but I might later." Either you think he's a Hall of Famer or you don't. Raines isn't gonna steal any more bases. Jim Rice had the same number of stats in his first year on the ballot as he did in his 15th.[/quote:m8k9zqkk]
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metsmarathon Jan 05 2010 11:00 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
do you think there's some readily available (and preferably already analyzed) evidence out there that could refute or support the notion of truly great pitchers pitching to the score, as heyman contends?
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Frayed Knot Jan 05 2010 11:13 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
I've seen articles where guys looked for "pitching to the score" evidence (and specifically for Morris) and found it either bogus or at least as hard to nail down as "clutch".
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 05 2010 11:15 AM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
I recall seeing a study done on that very subject, using Seaver among the study group. It must have been a SABR thingy.
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Vince Coleman Firecracker Jan 05 2010 12:39 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Well, I googled "pitching to the score", and the first three hits are Greg Spira's article saying there's no such animal (he uses the James Pythagorean theorem to debunk the myth), Joe Sheehan's article, which agrees (he uses Morris' record in games grouped by run differential), and Joe Posnanski's article, which uses a similar argument as Sheehan to reach the same conclusion.
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Ashie62 Jan 05 2010 12:43 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Is pitching to the score the same as "that pitcher is tough when he has a lead?
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Valadius Jan 05 2010 02:06 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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New Update from the Baseball Think Factory's BBWAA ballot compiler:
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 05 2010 02:26 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Ashie62":3bkfqrzw]Is pitching to the score the same as "that pitcher is tough when he has a lead?"[/quote:3bkfqrzw]
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HahnSolo Jan 05 2010 02:33 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
I'll probably sound stupid, but in Val's chart what does "Top Partial Ballot Leaders" mean?
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Frayed Knot Jan 05 2010 02:36 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
I was going to ask the same question.
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Benjamin Grimm Jan 05 2010 02:36 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Sounds like "pitching to the score" just a way to justify the validity of the flawed Win stat.
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metsguyinmichigan Jan 05 2010 02:42 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
My guess is some writers not revealing their whole ballot, but standing up for one or two candidates.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 05 2010 03:02 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Benjamin Grimm":2ch867ww]Sounds like "pitching to the score" (is) just a way to justify the validity of the flawed Win stat.[/quote:2ch867ww]
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attgig Jan 05 2010 03:13 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Gwreck":4bfg96yo]I voted: Alomar, McGwire, Blyleven, Martinez.
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attgig Jan 05 2010 03:18 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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G-Fafif Jan 05 2010 03:48 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="metsguyinmichigan":1eilwg6i]My guess is some writers not revealing their whole ballot, but standing up for one or two candidates.
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TheOldMole Jan 05 2010 03:56 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Do you suppose Trammell and Whittaker get less HOF respect than they deserve because they played their whole careers for one team, and never got free agent bigbux headlines?
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Valadius Jan 05 2010 04:11 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
Lou Whitaker's immediate fall off the ballot was a disgrace, in my opinion. He deserved more consideration than that.
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Chad Ochoseis Jan 05 2010 04:18 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="The Old Mole":fujiy87q]Do you suppose Trammell and Whittaker get less HOF respect than they deserve because they played their whole careers for one team, and never got free agent bigbux headlines?
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 05 2010 04:32 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
[quote="Chad Ochoseis":3potlv20][quote="The Old Mole":3potlv20]Do you suppose Trammell and Whittaker get less HOF respect than they deserve because they played their whole careers for one team, and never got free agent bigbux headlines?
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Nymr83 Jan 05 2010 05:44 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
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Trammell was as good or alot better (depending on how you want to value their respective defense) of a player than Derek Jeter is, he gets ignored partially for not being lucky enough to be surrounded by stars and partially for not playing in New York. I'm not sure if I'm as sold on Whitaker, but considereing the CRAP that manages to stay on the ballot sometimes it is perplexing that he fell off.
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Edgy DC Jan 05 2010 05:57 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
A secondbaseman slugged .500 his last year --- yeah, hit was a half season, but still --- and then he retires at 38.
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attgig Jan 06 2010 12:57 PM Re: 2010 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting |
woulda thought Magnum PI would've helped. C'mon Selleck. Don't you have any pull with the baseball writers?
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