Master Index of Archived Threads


Starting Pitcher for 2010

Ben Sheets

12 votes

Joel Pinero

4 votes

Jon Garland

2 votes

Chien-Ming Wang

2 votes

Carlos Zambrano

1 votes

Aaron Harang

5 votes

Bronson Arroyo

3 votes

Gil Meche

1 votes

TransMonk Jan 06 2010 10:14 AM

Lackey, Wolf and Marquis are out. The above are pitchers the Mets have been rumored to be interested in. Which one is the one you would most like to add to the rotation? Take the following into consideration and remember that these figures are estimates and rumors: Free Agents: Ben Sheets 1yr/$12M (+$5M in incentives and possible vesting option for 2011) Joel Pinero 4yrs/$50M Jon Garland 2yrs/$16M? Chien-Ming Wang cheap Trades: Carlos Zambrano will most likely cost at least John Maine, Luis Castillo and a prospect which will cause the Mets to pay for another 2Bman and pay Zambrano the following: 2010:$17.875M, 2011:$17.875M, 2012:$18M, 2013:$19.25M vesting player option (1 or 2 in CYA voting in 2011 OR top 4 in CYA voting in 2012 and is "healthy") Aaron Harang will earn the following: 2010:$12.5M, 2011:$12.75M ($2M buyout) and will cost propects and possibly John Maine Bronson Arroyo will earn the following: 2010:$11M, 2011:$11M club option ($2M buyout) and will cost propects and possibly John Maine Gil Meche will earn the following: 2010:$12M, 2011:$12M and from reports would cost Castillo and propects, again meaning we would need to pay for a new 2Bman. We may also need to take on a "bad" contract in order to work this deal such as Kyle Farnsworth (2010:$4.5M, 2011:$5.25M club option ($0.5M buyout)) or Juan Cruz (2010:$3.25M, 2011:$4M club option ($0.5M buyout)) The trades would be fluid, meaning it is hard to gauge the other clubs interest in trading these pitchers or what their asking price may be. If you have other pitchers you would be interested in, please list them including what it night take to get them.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 06 2010 10:25 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

If were were to swallow a guy like Harang whole -- the equivalent of signing him to a 2 year, $27M contract -- there's no way he'd also be worth John Maine. I think the smart play there would be to pay the freight on Harang and pass along Maine provided they throw in Brandon Phillips. They can even have a prospect and Castillo. For whatever reason I've always liked Meche a little.

MFS62 Jan 06 2010 10:28 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Sheets. The upside is enormous - he's a half run per game in ERA better than the other free agents. But there would have to be extensive medical tests before he would be signed. Later

TransMonk Jan 06 2010 10:32 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I like Meche as well, but I went with Garland as he is cheap and consistent. In a perfect world Garland would be a great backup for Sheets. But I can't find myself relying on Sheets for that kind of money with his injury record.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 06 2010 10:33 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Now THAT's what I call a poll question. Nice, TM. To the contenders. Sheets: Hasn't approached 200 innings since 2004. Unless his agents give us an extended warranty... not at that price. Pineiro: (See "Sheets.") Garland: Mebbe. Would prefer 1 yr/$8-9M. Wang: Mebbe-plus. I would love to get him in conjunction with a more durable primary addition, though. Zambrano: The price tag's rough, and my feelings on the trade kinda depend on the prospect (if Neuwenheis, then mebbe... anything beyond that, and I'm holding out, or asking the Cubs for cash). Between the Venezuelan-ness, the outsized personality and the durability... he seems like exactly what we're looking for, though. Harang: Mebbe-plus. But not if Maine's the cost. Arroyo: (See "Harang.") Meche: Like him a lot. But I wonder whether Trey Hillman might have broken him at this point. Ultimately... I hate myself a little for saying this, and I'd probably jump down somebody's throat for saying this, but... Zambrano. He's a big honking 30-start machine, and still just 28. I'd settle for an adjusted Harang deal, with a side of Wang. I would like to get my hands on that Wang.

smg58 Jan 06 2010 10:41 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Depends on price. Carlos Zambrano is the most likely to produce a significant upgrade over a full season, but he also appears to be the most expensive (in fact, it doesn't look close) unless the Cubs would take Ollie in addition to Castillo and thereby cancel out the salary difference (not likely, but I'd ask). Sheets has the most upside, but could I get Wang for substantially less? The Mets have no business including prospects in any deal for a player not worth his contract, so any team who insists on that would not get a return call from me. Like I've mentioned before, I'd roll the dice on upside before I made a multiyear commitment to a pitcher who might not be much of an upgrade. Based on your hypothetical asking prices, I'd say Wang is the best value, but I'm not sure that any of those pitchers will get anywhere near those amounts.

Ashie62 Jan 06 2010 11:56 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Gil Meche-quietly reliable..

smg58 Jan 06 2010 11:57 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Another thing on Wang -- this would only be his fifth full season, so he'd be under the team's control next year. That's not an insignificant factor if he performs well.

Rockin' Doc Jan 06 2010 04:44 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Of the free agents, Ben Sheets has the greatest ceiling, however his durability is questionable at best. Jon Garland is likely to be reasonably inexpensive and he has thrown 200+ innings 6 of the past 7 years (only threw 196.2 in 2008). The Mets need someone that can give the bullpen a little lighter load to carry since they will likely be pretty busy when Maine and Perez are starting. I would hope to get a higher quality of pitcher if the team has to resort to a trade. I don't think the Mets have enough prospects to use them to acquire a middle of the rotation (#3) starter.

Nymr83 Jan 06 2010 05:19 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

None of those trade potentials excite me because they all make too much money considering that the Mets would also give players up. Of the free agents, an incentive-laden deal for Sheets would be my favorite choice, but more than 5 or 6 million gauranteed seems nuts with his injury history.

Fman99 Jan 06 2010 08:13 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I'm a big fan of Chien-Ming Cock.

Edgy DC Jan 07 2010 02:48 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Not from the most reliable sources, but there's some specameculation out there that there's some thought that Mets are interested in using John Smoltz to fill the role of Pitcher Who Used to Be Good but Now Isn't. He would also inherit Billy Wagner's role of Staff Bald Guy.

Swan Swan H Jan 07 2010 03:08 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I'm bald, I suck, and I'm willing to work for the major league minimum. Anybody got Omar's number?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 07 2010 03:12 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Edgy DC wrote: Not from the most reliable sources, but there's some specameculation out there that there's some thought that Mets are interested in using John Smoltz to fill the role of Pitcher Who Used to Be Good but Now Isn't. He would also inherit Billy Wagner's role of Staff Bald Guy. Yeah, we still need one of those. (Well, hopefully we do.) Ooh, and if we don't have to count on him, he could be the reverse-Glavine of Manchurian Braves. We could have him only pitch in blowouts during rainy games, warm up at odd times and not come in, and just generally get our money's worth in sadism. Yeah, I did the "we" thing. Sue me.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 09 2010 04:14 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

The buzz seems to be that the Mets are considering Smoltz as a starter, which kind of surprises me. (Had he been starting in Boston and St. Louis?) He may be a guy who could be in the mix, but he's not the guy to finish off the rotation.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 09 2010 04:41 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Yep, he did. In both stops (8 in Boston, 7 in St. Loo).

Benjamin Grimm Jan 12 2010 05:12 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

According to Ed Price of AOL FanHouse, the Mets are having in-depth talks with right-hander Joel Pineiro about a contract that is worth around two years and $15 million. I never heard of Ed or AOL FanHouse, so I don't know how credible a source he might be, so take the above for whatever it may be worth.

Ashie62 Jan 13 2010 07:58 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Price is like many, sometime right, sometimes wrong. So the Mets & Dodgers seem to be the last standing for Piniero with the Dodgers apparently willing to go 3 years but for less dollars per annum than the Mets 2. This may be Piniero's last "big contract" opportunity so i don't blame him for wanting 3 years, but he does have a history of arm trouble. I like Joel and Harang

Frayed Knot Jan 13 2010 08:03 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

So is this Price guy (and, by extension, MLB Fanhouse) an actual reporter with actual information or just an internet guy/site repeating what's already been seen and heard elsewhere? Heyman mentions the Mets as one of the teams Jarrod Washburn has been in contact with.

MFS62 Jan 13 2010 08:18 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Edgy DC wrote: Not from the most reliable sources, but there's some specameculation out there that there's some thought that Mets are interested in using John Smoltz to fill the role of Pitcher Who Used to Be Good but Now Isn't. He would also inherit Billy Wagner's role of Staff Bald Guy. Just rip my heart out of my chest, why don't you. Are the Mets to become the retirement home for ex-Braves hall of famers? And a tough and gritty ex-Brave from their glory years? That would be like inviting Osama Bin Laden to a Bar Mitzvah. At least Glavine was a wimp with no personality. Smoltz would be a disaster. Later

A Boy Named Seo Jan 13 2010 08:45 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

MFS62 wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Not from the most reliable sources, but there's some specameculation out there that there's some thought that Mets are interested in using John Smoltz to fill the role of Pitcher Who Used to Be Good but Now Isn't. He would also inherit Billy Wagner's role of Staff Bald Guy. Just rip my heart out of my chest, why don't you. Are the Mets to become the retirement home for ex-Braves hall of famers? And a tough and gritty ex-Brave from their glory years? That would be like inviting Osama Bin Laden to a Bar Mitzvah. At least Glavine was a wimp with no personality. Smoltz would be a disaster. Later That's in no way an overreaction.

Edgy DC Jan 13 2010 08:47 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Perspective, gentlemen.

A Boy Named Seo Jan 13 2010 08:54 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Edgy DC wrote: Perspective, gentlemen. Gentlemen? I think maybe you didn't get me.

Edgy DC Jan 13 2010 09:01 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I posted before yours appeared.

A Boy Named Seo Jan 13 2010 09:07 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Gotcha.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 13 2010 09:16 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I can't see why we'd prefer a "wimp" to someone who's "tough and gritty."

MFS62 Jan 13 2010 10:36 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I can't see why we'd prefer a "wimp" to someone who's "tough and gritty." Well, the Mets did sign the wimp. Tough and gritty is ok when you still have the ability to back it up. And I don't think he has it any more. I'm tough and gritty, but I wouldn't want the Mets to sign me for only that reason, either. Later

Benjamin Grimm Jan 13 2010 11:03 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

At least Glavine was a wimp with no personality. Smoltz would be a disaster. You're clearly saying that you prefer the wimp.

MFS62 Jan 13 2010 04:55 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Benjamin Grimm wrote: At least Glavine was a wimp with no personality. Smoltz would be a disaster. You're clearly saying that you prefer the wimp. I guess that's the way it came out. Not what I meant. Just two different types of dislike. Later

Frayed Knot Jan 13 2010 05:06 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I never disliked either guy.

Ashie62 Jan 13 2010 05:42 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I'm Ok with a zero personality wimp that can win 15

Benjamin Grimm Jan 13 2010 07:09 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Frayed Knot wrote: I never disliked either guy. Me neither.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 13 2010 07:50 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I do find myself, in G-FAFIF-like fashion, typing typewriter symbols instead of vowels when writing our erstwhile 47's name. Smoltz I have no beef with. I'd welcome him as rotation/pen supplement at a reasonable price.

Rockin' Doc Jan 13 2010 10:05 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I've always enjoyed watching Smoltz pitch because of his talent and competitive grit. I would have welcomed having him on the Mets a few years ago. Unfortunately, now I suspect most of his talent is behind him and competitive drive can only take one so far.

Farmer Ted Jan 14 2010 11:34 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Pelf, according to the Post, has lost 20 pounds in the offeseason. Not 'roiding I'm guessing.

themetfairy Jan 14 2010 01:12 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Farmer Ted wrote: Pelf, according to the Post, has lost 20 pounds in the offeseason. Not 'roiding I'm guessing. He's a new dad. He must have been running ragged with baby duty the last couple of months.

A Boy Named Seo Jan 14 2010 01:14 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

We somehow forgot to put him in the poll up there, but the Mets signed Bobby Livingston, late of the Reds, to a minor league deal today.

smg58 Jan 14 2010 03:23 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I'd be worried if Livingston started for us, but he could make the pen out of ST.

Edgy DC Jan 14 2010 03:24 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Nonetheless, the Mets have done a great job in recent years of lining up emergency starters --- often finding better quality in options 6-9 than they ever had in number five.

Farmer Ted Jan 14 2010 04:57 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

The Mets are already have a Bobby Livingston, Pat Misch. Let's think formidable starter.

A Boy Named Seo Jan 14 2010 05:02 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Farmer Ted wrote: The Mets are already have a Bobby Livingston, Pat Misch. Let's think formidable starter. Signing Bobby Livingston, having Pat Misch, and thinking about a formidable starter are all possible at once!

Edgy DC Jan 14 2010 06:19 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Yeah, seriously, It's not like they didn't need Misch and Nieve and Figgy and Stokes and then some last year. Considering that the staff was devastated by injuries last year, they did pretty well, and deserve some credit.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 14 2010 06:33 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Oh, 6-9's superlative. I take off my hat, blow a kiss and drop trou to 6-9. It's 2-5 that's a bit comparatively shaky.

Edgy DC Jan 14 2010 07:41 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Of course, and I tried to make it clear. But if 2-5 hadn't been so hurt, we'd have not cared how well the other guys were selected becauss they'd not have entered the breach. But what's the deal with complaining about the extras the Mets bring in while folks are furious they dint' have enough extras on offense last year? Huh? What's the deal?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 14 2010 07:46 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

The difference is, 6-9 are parachutes. In the lineup, while we have the best wings in the business (when they're not being duct-taped together), we're missing chunks of the tail and fusillage.

smg58 Jan 15 2010 08:22 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Edgy DC wrote: Yeah, seriously, It's not like they didn't need Misch and Nieve and Figgy and Stokes and then some last year. Considering that the staff was devastated by injuries last year, they did pretty well, and deserve some credit. I'm not arguing, for one. It obviates the need to spend several million on guys like Tim Redding and Livan Hernandez.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 17 2010 10:55 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

An update on Piniero, and, more importantly, another mention of Ed Price! Angels, Dodgers and Mets "all in" on Pineiro Sun Jan 17,2010 11:31 AM ET By D.J. Short Jon Heyman of SI.com tweets that the Angels, Dodgers and Mets are "all in" on free agent Joel Pineiro. The Mets have been connected to the 31-year-old right-hander all winter, while the Dodgers have stepped up their pursuit in recent weeks. The Angels, meanwhile, expressed interest early on, but have money to spend after losing John Lackey and Chone Figgins. Pineiro, like many free agent pitchers, hoped to use Randy Wolf's three-year, $30 million contract with the Brewers as a framework for a new deal, but it hasn't exactly worked out that way. At this point, he's more likely to find a contract just north of the two-year, $15 million contract the Nationals gave right-hander Jason Marquis. On a related note, the Mets will be among a handful of teams in attendance to watch Ben Sheets throw at the University of Louisiana on Tuesday, according to Ed Price of AOL Fanhouse. All involved will likely wait on investing in Pineiro until they see how Sheets checks out.

metirish Jan 17 2010 11:25 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

When VH1 looks back at this decade in a few years Ed Price will be mentioned as the first real star to emerge....he's everywhere...

Edgy DC Jan 19 2010 12:16 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Julie and Ben Sheets, flanking then-newborn baby (now seven-year-old) Seaver Sheets.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 19 2010 12:37 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Have I mentioned I like this Sheets fellow? Just changed my vote. Sorry, Crazy-Ass Carlos... enjoy the pizza casserole.

Ceetar Jan 19 2010 01:12 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I'd like Sheets, I'd definitely take that. I think Garland is my safe choice, and I'd be fine with that, but Sheets is pretty good. He just seems a little too expensive to be worth taking a shot on. Sometimes I wonder if maybe the Mets should try mixing in a 6 man rotation for a month or so at some point. Sheets, Maine, and even Santana could probably due with extra days off here and there to keep them their best for Sept-October.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 22 2010 06:58 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I can't read the original source article, because I'm not a Newsday subscriber, but Mark J. Miller of Yahoo is reporting that Newsday is reporting that Piniero was the guy the Mets really wanted, and they offered him about the same money the Angels did, but now they're pursuing Sheets and Smoltz. (I get the impression that they hope to sign them both, not either/or, but I'm not certain of that.) Their backups are Jon Garland, Erik Bedard, and Chien-Ming Wang.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 22 2010 07:07 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Snooze today makes it seem like they're hot after Wang, but a close read seems to be the agent doing a bit of reminding that his client still exists. Wang doesn't miss enough bats for me to ever be comfy with, plus he's a project, not due back till May. I think I'd rather take a Sheets than eat Wang.

Edgy DC Jan 22 2010 07:16 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I'd rather roll in Sheets also. I'd also prefer to wear a Garland or listen to a Harang. I may eat Wang before dressing myself in Meche, but I might change my my mind before getting to that point.

MFS62 Jan 22 2010 08:57 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Edgy DC wrote: I'd rather roll in Sheets also. I'd also prefer to wear a Garland or listen to a Harang. I may eat Wang before dressing myself in Meche, but I might change my my mind before getting to that point. That Figueroas. Later

Edgy DC Jan 25 2010 09:05 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Bring back Seaver, Mets!

TransMonk Jan 25 2010 12:50 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

The internet is abuzz that the A's might land Sheets.

Edgy DC Jan 25 2010 12:59 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Stupid internet.

Edgy DC Jan 25 2010 01:50 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

How about taking a low-risk look at Jarrod Washburn? Pitches like a prince for 20 starts in Seatlle, gets traded to Detroit, and pitches like a sucka? Followed the season with arthroscpic knee surgery. He's not getting offers, and making squeaks about retiring, which tells me maybe he's playing it cool and maybe he's not staying in shape.

metirish Jan 25 2010 01:57 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Washburn would be for AAA? , do we not have guys down there a better bet that him?...

Edgy DC Jan 25 2010 02:00 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I would think he's for AAA unless he kicks ass in the spring. He doesn't strike me as a terrible bet.

Ashie62 Jan 25 2010 03:06 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

TransMonk wrote: The internet is abuzz that the A's might land Sheets. better than being aflame

attgig Jan 25 2010 03:28 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Wang doesn't miss enough bats for me to ever be comfy with, plus he's a project, not due back till May. had the same reservation about piniero, and glad they didn't get him. I'm still worked about pelfrey for the same reason. if we want in sinkerball pitcher, we need a better infield defense. hopefully reyes and wright are back to being above average if'ers... but that other side of the infield worries me a bit...

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 25 2010 03:31 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Multiple sources-- though Buster Olney seems to be out in front of this, nationally-- say that the A's are interested and talking to Sheets, with no real inkling they're the frontrunner for Seaver's Daddy. JonHeyman-- among others-- say it's them, us and the Rangers... and he's of the mindset it's an "AL West battle." As Ben Sheets is not represented by Scott Boras, however, Jon Heyman's feelings are pretty much a non-concern.

metirish Jan 26 2010 07:03 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Rubin's article today , a few interesting things , all the top men from the front office are in PSL....... PORT ST. LUCIE - When Johan Santana delivers the first pitch of the Mets' season on April 5, Omir Santos very well could be behind the plate to receive the offering. What's more, John Smoltz could follow Santana in the rotation. With 23 days until pitchers and catchers report and the Mets' roster still a work in progress, chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon, GM Omar Minaya, assistant GMs John Ricco and Wayne Krivsky and manager Jerry Manuel huddled Monday at the team's Florida complex on Day 1 of a voluntary players minicamp. The Mets' brain trust still needs to decide whether to sign free-agent catcher Yorvit Torrealba or Rod Barajas or go with what the Mets already have behind the plate. Also at issue is how to round out the rotation, with Ben Sheets, Jon Garland and Smoltz the best remaining free-agent options. Team insiders say the Mets have been particularly active in dialogue with the 42-year-old Smoltz's reps and would use him as a starter. Still, one source labeled it a toss-up which pitcher the Mets could land to join Santana, Mike Pelfrey, Oliver Perez and John Maine in the rotation. Sheets, who did not pitch last season while recovering from elbow surgery, is looking for a substantial payday on a one-year deal, with Oakland and Texas reportedly among his most serious suitors. Regardless, Minaya feels like his winter work is largely complete, even as the Mets' roster continues to have openings. "We're close to the team that we're going to start with," Minaya said. "That being said, things can still happen during spring training. "Early on, we addressed certain areas as far as the bench by bringing on (Alex) Cora and by getting (catcher Henry) Blanco," the GM continued. "Our big piece, of course, was getting Jason Bay on board. We still need to fill some other needs. The catching front, if we need to go with the guys we have, we will. We're still talking to teams and also looking at some of the free agents. And pitching is something we have to continue to look at. There are some free agents that are available and we are talking to their agents." Daniel Murphy is the highest-profile position player at the voluntary three-day camp, and team insiders continue to project him as the starting first baseman. Minaya said he's spoken with Carlos Delgado and the veteran still wants to play first base rather than DH. But Delgado has looked slow at the position and limps, a Mets official acknowledged. More recently in winter ball, Delgado has served as a DH, which Minaya said was because the games are largely on artificial turf, which causes more of a pounding on the body than grass. While Minaya won't completely rule out re-signing Delgado, his troubles could pave the way for Fernando Tatis to be re-signed, or a comparable righty hitter for a limited role at first base. As for catcher, Manuel seems to favor Santos over Blanco, Chris Coste and Josh Thole if neither Torrealba nor Barajas is signed. "He has some familiarity, obviously, with the pitching staff, so he'll probably be the guy that if you had to rank them or whatever, he'd probably be the top-ranked guy right now," Manuel said about Santos. "And we definitely will continue to take a good look at Josh. The one thing about Josh that is definitely different than Omir is that Josh kind of balances out the lineup. He's a lefthanded hitter. We'll take a look at him and talk to the people who saw him in winter ball and see how much progression he made and go from there. It's not out of the question." Manuel also wasn't ready to anoint the newly acquired Gary Matthews Jr. the center fielder over Angel Pagan in Carlos Beltran's absence. "I still have to give Angel every opportunity to play as well," Manuel said. "He played extremely well there for us as far as statistically speaking. He hit .300, had a number of triples, a number of doubles. He played well. And at least the last couple of years he's started off real well. So we need that." Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... z0dj8D4wnG

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 26 2010 07:24 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

You gotta hand it to Omar -- he's not General Managing like a guy desperate to save his job.

MFS62 Jan 26 2010 07:42 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Regardless, Minaya feels like his winter work is largely complete, even as the Mets' roster continues to have openings. "We're close to the team that we're going to start with," Minaya said. I'm waiting with nervous anticipation until I find out how he defines the word "close". Later

Benjamin Grimm Jan 26 2010 07:49 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I hope it doesn't end up being Smoltz. My issue with him isn't his time in Atlanta, but his age. I'd much rather have Sheets.

Ashie62 Jan 26 2010 07:59 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

The Oakland A's?

Vic Sage Jan 26 2010 08:19 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: You gotta hand it to Omar -- he's not General Managing like a guy desperate to save his job. or even like a guy desparate to DO his job...

Edgy DC Jan 26 2010 08:51 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I'd prefer Sheets also, but, being honest, a guy who didn't play last year is a similar risk.

Centerfield Jan 26 2010 08:58 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

They're similar risks. The difference is, to paraphrase Casey, Sheets has a chance to be good if healthy, while Smoltz has a chance to be healthy.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 26 2010 08:59 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I guess. But there's a greater upside to Sheets.

metirish Jan 26 2010 09:01 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Smoltz was just worse than brutal last year , wasn't he? Bedard has a chance to be really good I think...

Swan Swan H Jan 26 2010 09:04 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Sheets is the one guy left that I think you should be willing to overpay for, knowing that the he could prove well worth the money and if he doesn't, well, it's only money. Having Neise and Figueroa in reserve while conducting a Sheets experiment is better, in my mind, than simply having Neise and Figueroa.

Frayed Knot Jan 26 2010 09:07 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Also, if Sheets, as I've read in places, is looking specifically for a one-year deal so as to cash in big for next off-season, that alone reduces the risk.

TransMonk Jan 26 2010 09:09 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Sheets is the answer at this point. If he gets away (it may be entirely possible that he does not want to pitch in NY no matter the offer), I'll still go with my original choice of Garland. While he is not a #2, he would have been the 2nd best pitcher we had last year if he were pitching for us. If Smoltz is signed for the rotation, I'm writing this year off before pitchers and catchers.

metirish Jan 26 2010 09:10 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Frayed Knot wrote: Also, if Sheets, as I've read in places, is looking specifically for a one-year deal so as to cash in big for next off-season, that alone reduces the risk. That makes sense , if that is the case then factors other than money would come in to play for Sheets I would think, in his mind he must be looking at the teams talking to him and wondering where is his best chance for success. Oakland and Texas hardly fit that bill. Citi Field might.

Edgy DC Jan 26 2010 09:19 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

The list of players who've taken less money to avoid New York is not large.

TransMonk Jan 26 2010 09:34 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Edgy DC wrote: The list of players who've taken less money to avoid New York is not large. True, but from what I saw in his Milwaukee days, Sheets is somewhat of a pussy. If he has a hangnail, papercut or dust in his eye he will take himself out of a game. I don't know that he has ever been booed as badly as he would be at Citi if he is making $8M+ in 2010 and gets off to a bad start. He has never been a big fan of the press (the Milwaukee press, mind you)...especially after things go wrong. In addition, I think Sheets is aware of his pussiness. If he is getting similar or slightly less money to pitch in Oakland or some other non-NY team, my bet says he takes it rather than come to the Mets.

metirish Jan 26 2010 09:36 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Hardly sounds like a "foxhole" guy .

Ceetar Jan 26 2010 09:42 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

And he hasn't started in over a year. Gonna take some time to get into a groove you'd think. As far as pitching goes so far rumors are the Mets may have made an offer to Smoltz and Omar says Nieve may be 5th on the depth chart at this point. (Which is a pretty worthless statement prior to spring and while he's still looking for another pitcher.)

Edgy DC Jan 26 2010 09:48 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Until Nieve shows how healthy, I've got Figueroa as number five.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 26 2010 09:49 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

You splash the pot on Sheets. He's the only real difference-maker left out there. But I'm not sure any of us gets Omar to quit slow-playing here. One almost wishes that he WERE feeling save-my-job urgency at this point-- really, with most everything in the Potential Overbuy catalog out of stock, I wouldn't mind seeing him pay double-freight on Captain PussyBoy over here.

Fman99 Jan 26 2010 10:25 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: You splash the pot on Sheets. He's the only real difference-maker left out there. I'd add Bedard to the 'difference maker' category, with the same health-related caveat that Sheets has attached to him. Not that any one is talking about him for some reason. He seems likely to stay in the AL. The rest of these guys are just fodder.

Centerfield Jan 26 2010 10:29 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I guess. But there's a greater upside to Sheets. Sorry, that's kind of what I meant with my clumsy joke. Both have a chance to be healthy, but only Sheets is good when healthy.

A Boy Named Seo Jan 26 2010 11:07 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Danny Knobler steals Ed Price's thunder and reports Ben Sheets to the A's for 1 year, $8 mils. http://danny-knobler.blogs.cbssports.co ... 6/19783010 Disappointing. So this Bedard guy...

Centerfield Jan 26 2010 11:13 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Very disappointing. I wonder what the incentives clauses are like. You'd think the Mets could beat that $8 million figure, unless Sheets didn't want to come here at all. The Mets are so depressing. I'm going back to the Jets and Syracuse threads.

Edgy DC Jan 26 2010 11:16 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Or they didn't want to.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 26 2010 11:18 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Seems to me that Sheets will come around again in July.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 26 2010 11:27 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Danny Knobler steals Ed Price's thunder and reports Ben Sheets to the A's for 1 year, $8 mils. Sheee-it. I think we now have to hope that John Smoltz somehow made himself 15 years* younger over the winter. *Ten would also be good. I'd also be happy with five.

smg58 Jan 26 2010 11:48 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

There are enough options available to justify passing on beating $8M or more for a guy who missed all of last year.

TransMonk Jan 26 2010 11:53 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

IMO the options are dwindling. I think if the Reds were going to make a move with their pitchers they woulda by now. Haven't heard any link between the Mets and Bedard or Wang.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 26 2010 11:59 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I thought Krivsky being on board would grease the skids for a Reds deal, but little talk on that. Then again, Krivsky was an enemy to the media, he's a secretive guy.

Ceetar Jan 26 2010 12:22 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Some secrecy would do this organization good. I'm been suspecting a trade for a bit now. Omar's comment about Nieve just sounds like trying not to sound desperate, which could mean he's talking value about an opposing SP and how much the Mets would give up. We'll see. We'll also see about Garland, who I still feel may have been the best option all along.

Ashie62 Jan 26 2010 12:33 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Centerfield wrote: Very disappointing. I wonder what the incentives clauses are like. You'd think the Mets could beat that $8 million figure, unless Sheets didn't want to come here at all. The Mets are so depressing. I'm going back to the Jets and Syracuse threads. I saw 10 million guaranteed on CBS and an A's interest in Damon On to Smoltz

Ashie62 Jan 26 2010 12:38 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Smoltz is 42 years old with 102 innings total in 2009-09...Do the Mets want that? To hear the mets were interested in Pineiro and failed pisses me off

TransMonk Jan 26 2010 12:45 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Yeah, Smoltz' shoulder scares me more than his age. He had great numbers even in 2006-07 when he was 39 and 40. Even his 6 starts in 2008 before the shoulder injury were fine. But he looked like dog poo in Boston last year and below average in St Louis.

Valadius Jan 26 2010 01:09 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

If Bedard can demonstrate that he's healthy, I'd grab him. He put up some scary strikeout numbers in Bal'mer, and if there's anything we could use more of it's strikeout pitchers.

Ceetar Jan 26 2010 01:10 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

TransMonk wrote: Yeah, Smoltz' shoulder scares me more than his age. He had great numbers even in 2006-07 when he was 39 and 40. Even his 6 starts in 2008 before the shoulder injury were fine. But he looked like dog poo in Boston last year and below average in St Louis. Ouch. I just remembered I saw Smoltz start a game last year at Yankee Stadium. Was there (for free) with my Uncle for the first game of that series, saw him get absolutely shelled. (Of course, Joba on the other side walked more guys than Ollie usually does but managed to strand most of them, also much like Ollie) Wasn't a real great game, I much preferred the other game I saw in that dump where John Lannan dominated them.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 26 2010 01:14 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I just remembered I saw Smoltz start a game last year at Yankee Stadium. Was there (for free) with my Uncle for the first game of that series, saw him get absolutely shelled. (Of course, Joba on the other side walked more guys than Ollie usually does but managed to strand most of them, also much like Ollie) Wasn't a real great game, I much preferred the other game I saw in that dump where John Lannan dominated them. I remember remarking on the cpf that day that I thought I'd witnessed the end of Smoltz's career. He had nothing. I dunno. We did employ Livan Hernandez last year, and some nights, he was our best pitcher. Yeow.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 26 2010 01:35 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Centerfield wrote: Very disappointing. I wonder what the incentives clauses are like. You'd think the Mets could beat that $8 million figure, unless Sheets didn't want to come here at all. The Mets are so depressing. I'm going back to the Jets and Syracuse threads. This. If they're in for 90 cents, they're in for the dollar... or should be. Hell, man, if we're 14 million under budget expectations, the team could have gone up to that. Worst-case scenario, you end up with the same damn staff you've got now... and he's off your payroll come October. As it is, this team stands to be the guy at the end of a fantasy-draft auction who's got 40 dollars of a 200-buck budget left over. AWESOME! EVERYONE APPLAUD THE GUY WHO JUST SAVED 40 IMAGINARY DOLLARS!

Benjamin Grimm Jan 26 2010 01:46 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Their current position seems to be that, among Niese and Nieve and Figueroa and whoever else, they should be able to find a decent fifth starter. And that's probably true. But the problem is, Pelfrey, Maine, and Perez are all question marks, and what the Mets really needed this winter was a number 2 starter who would slot behind Santana and ahead of those other guys. And it no longer looks like there's any hope of that happening.

metirish Jan 26 2010 01:49 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

And according to Rubin the Mets see Smoltz as a starter.

TransMonk Jan 26 2010 01:50 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Benjamin Grimm wrote: ...what the Mets really needed this winter was a number 2 starter who would slot behind Santana and ahead of those other guys. And it no longer looks like there's any hope of that happening. Yup, yup...that coupled with no significant upgrade at 1B or C makes this a pretty underwhemling off-season as it stands now. Oh yeah, and Beltran's gonna miss time.

Ceetar Jan 26 2010 01:52 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Their current position seems to be that, among Niese and Nieve and Figueroa and whoever else, they should be able to find a decent fifth starter. And that's probably true. But the problem is, Pelfrey, Maine, and Perez are all question marks, and what the Mets really needed this winter was a number 2 starter who would slot behind Santana and ahead of those other guys. And it no longer looks like there's any hope of that happening. I think there was plenty of disagreement on that. I've always maintained they need a solid, consistant, healthy 5th person pitching in the rotation that could offset a question marks in the other three. Sheets is a question mark, even if he's got more upside. Garland seems to fit that, as do a couple of guys that may be available via trades. They've got a good offense and can win games. Perez, Pelfrey and Maine are all capable of throwing up a "#2" performance during any start. The idea is to minimize the weak performances or the 6th choices and help rest the bullpen. A #2 was never readily available for anything reasonable, unless you count too many prospects for Halladay and tying up 40-50 million in two pitchers.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 26 2010 02:06 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

From the Post: Free-agent starter Ben Sheets has signed with the A's for one year, $10 million. Mets GM Omar Minaya planned on talking to Sheets’ agent today, along with several other starters, sources told The Post. Sheets’ signing means the Mets will now concentrate on free agents Jon Garland, John Smoltz and Jarrod Washburn. And man... you don't sign a "#5 guy." You end up with a guy who happens to be the fifth guy in your rotation, and the more durable he is the better... because he usually offers little else. If someone is described as a "back-of-rotation starter" by a guy in baseball, the baseball guy saying it is almost always putting an UPPER limit on the player's potential, not saying "HERE's a guy you want-- given your choice of other, potentially better players-- to fill in the back of the rotation." Garland has some value to a major-league team... mainly, to a contender that is looking for rotation backfill, or a team that-- basically-- is killing time and innings. But if you're putting together a team and fancy yourself a contender (or potential contender), and you have holes/question marks at spots 2-5, you don't sign a "5" to solidify the positions above that. A "solid #5" does NOTHING to alleviate questions in the rotation above him. NOTHING. If you're in said role, and you do aim at improving your rotation, you sign guys who can bump those guys down to slots where you aren't depending on them as much. That's how you improve. Or, y'know, you cross your fingers.

Ceetar Jan 26 2010 02:12 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

the numbers are silly. and Garland is better than the typical 5th guy on most staffs. I was using 5 as in, 5th, as in the Mets ave 4 guys right now and need another. Yes, those other guys are question marks, but they're also all capable of giving you a typical top of the rotation start at any given moment. So with an Ace at the front and an anchor like Garland in the back, if you can maximize the flashes of brilliance from the other three while minimizing Perez's 2.2 9BB outings, you're in good shape.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 26 2010 02:15 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Well, yeah, if everything goes right the Mets will win 110 games. But I think that counting on three disappointing pitchers to all bounce back is overly optimistic. Right now the Mets look like an 80-win team to me, and that's mainly because of Pelfrey, Maine, and Perez.

metirish Jan 26 2010 02:20 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Agree with Grim on this , and it's not like those three were brilliant in 08 either....for me if it's the likes of Garland and Smoltz for several million on a one year deal then I just don't see what they have over what we already have in guys like Figgy.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 26 2010 02:21 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 26 2010 02:25 PM

The equation changed drastically with Beltran out and a diminishing number of free agents. Given the cross-the-fingers roster-build O's put together/preserved, if the Mets indeed have 15-20 million dollars that they could spend, then NOT spending an extra 1-5 million dollars to secure the rare commodity-- volatile though it may be-- that is a significant step up from all other available commodity options isn't just silly, it's LUDICROUS. (As far as financial risk, this isn't Castillo's contract... this is a ONE YEAR DEAL. Perform, don't perform, get injured, squirt bleach on reporters... he's gone at year's end.) The Mets have "4 guys." That's about accurate. Three of them are coming off injury, and only one of them-- speaking frankly-- has been an above-average major-league starter (taking into account both performance and durability) over the course of his career. The Mets may have an average/above-average rotation if everything goes right. You don't normally want to plan for an 'if-everything-goes-right' scenario... but, hell, if you do, you want to raise that ceiling as much as possible. ESPECIALLY if you have the competitive advantage of the 2nd-or-3rd fattest wallet in your particular field.

Edgy DC Jan 26 2010 02:24 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I don't expect all three to bounce back. I expect one to do significantly better, one to do a little better and one to spend the year frustrated by injury or failure.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 26 2010 02:41 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

What's the point in worrying about whether this pitcher's a #2 guy or that one's a #4 or maybe they're three of #5 and and two of #3? And if your supposed #5 is supposed to offset the shortcomings of your #3 pitcher, than maybe your 5 is really a three and your three a five. The Mets need good pitchers. They should get good pitchers and hope that the ones they already have are good.

Ceetar Jan 26 2010 02:41 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Edgy DC wrote: I don't expect all three to bounce back. I expect one to do significantly better, one to do a little better and one to spend the year frustrated by injury or failure. That seems reasonable, and that's roughly what I'm expecting as well. A little above .500 combined for all three of them. I figure if you factor in a QS guy like Garland where you have a chance to win every one of his, and Santana's, starts you are in good shape, especially given the offense is good. And it's not like the Mets will need 98 games to make the playoffs this year, although you never know.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 26 2010 03:02 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Given that one of its top two cogs is out until at least May (and likely longer), and that C and 1B and (potentially) RF are-- relative to league-average-- offensive black holes, how good do you expect this offense to be, exactly?

Ashie62 Jan 26 2010 03:08 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: The equation changed drastically with Beltran out and a diminishing number of free agents. Given the cross-the-fingers roster-build O's put together/preserved, if the Mets indeed have 15-20 million dollars that they could spend, then NOT spending an extra 1-5 million dollars to secure the rare commodity-- volatile though it may be-- that is a significant step up from all other available commodity options isn't just silly, it's LUDICROUS. (As far as financial risk, this isn't Castillo's contract... this is a ONE YEAR DEAL. Perform, don't perform, get injured, squirt bleach on reporters... he's gone at year's end.) The Mets have "4 guys." That's about accurate. Three of them are coming off injury, and only one of them-- speaking frankly-- has been an above-average major-league starter (taking into account both performance and durability) over the course of his career. The Mets may have an average/above-average rotation if everything goes right. You don't normally want to plan for an 'if-everything-goes-right' scenario... but, hell, if you do, you want to raise that ceiling as much as possible. ESPECIALLY if you have the competitive advantage of the 2nd-or-3rd fattest wallet in your particular field. maybe some kid stole the wallet at recess..Mets playing the whole off-season cheap

Number 6 Jan 26 2010 03:42 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Whaddaya know... and Garland is the next pitcher off the board.

TransMonk Jan 26 2010 03:53 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

We're fucked.

Ceetar Jan 26 2010 03:59 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Given that one of its top two cogs is out until at least May (and likely longer), and that C and 1B and (potentially) RF are-- relative to league-average-- offensive black holes, how good do you expect this offense to be, exactly? Actually, I think he's out until around May 1st, probably sooner. But not much to say on that right now. This offense is the same offense that led the league in runs scored in 2008 and was still somehow near the top in getting on base last year. It's a good offense. Francoeur will probably play at least 'around' where Church did, Bay replaces Delgado's power and Murphy will outdo whatever collection of junk we ran out in LF in the past. Do you really think whatever C mess we throw out there can be much worse than what Schneider's given us? I'm disappointed that things haven't fallen into place with a SP, and hopefully Omar does come through with a trade for another pitcher, but between injury-prone guys, overpaid guys, guys that wanted to stay on the west coast..there hasn't been a lot of options. Things broke badly last year, who knows, maybe we catch some breaks this year. Maybe not signing another pitcher causes Niese to get a shot and he sparks Gooden comparisons. Who knows.

Ashie62 Jan 26 2010 03:59 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

going to war with Johan Santana Mike Pelfrey John Maine Oliver Perez Jon Niese Oye

bmfc1 Jan 26 2010 04:19 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Oy is right. Four of those five starters are coming off injuries. When you have so many injured pitchers, common sense dictates that you get some starters that can throw 200 innings but common sense has no place in the Mets front office. Last season ended with Misch and Figueroa and this season might begin that way, too. Unless they get Washburn, who was injured at the end of last year or Smoltz (please don't), the office season will have seen the Mets get Bay, some crappy catchers, a reliever that didn't pitch last season (Escobar) and a guy whose team was so happy to be rid of, they paid almost his whole salary. This team might finish last this season.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 26 2010 06:12 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Edgy DC wrote: I don't expect all three to bounce back. I expect one to do significantly better, one to do a little better and one to spend the year frustrated by injury or failure. I think that's reasonable. But I also don't think it will be good enough.

Edgy DC Jan 26 2010 08:39 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Depends on what their replacements do. What gets ignored is that the Mets replacements in 2010 were pretty strong and the team therefore finished in the middle of the pitchin' pack, despite their intended rotation starting only 102 of the 162 games (or 108, depending on whether you consider Hernandez or Redding part of the original intended rotation).

Rockin' Doc Jan 26 2010 09:35 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I do not have very high expectations for the season unless the Mets can somehow land a solid starter to add to the rotation. Their options seem to be dwindling by the day.

Edgy DC Jan 26 2010 10:14 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

The answers in the nest are always compelling. Santana Pelfrey Maine Perez Figueroa Nieve Niese Dickey Escobar Misch Stoner Egbert Parnell Livingston Gee

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 26 2010 10:36 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Compelling theater, likely. But compelling in any argument for Mets-as-serious-contenders? Questionable.

Edgy DC Jan 27 2010 07:29 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Questionable, certainly. Guarantees don't come in this life, son.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 27 2010 07:39 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I think the point here is that the Mets haven't done anything at all to make their 2010 rotation less questionable. And I think it was a screaming need.

metirish Jan 27 2010 07:56 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Trying to read between the lines here and Bob Feller might well get a call. Fernando Nieve could take the fifth spot in rotation for New York Mets PORT ST. LUCIE - At this rate, Fernando Nieve may really be the front-runner for the final slot in the Mets' rotation, with Jon Niese and a couple of players brought in on minor-league contracts competing. Free agent Ben Sheets signed with Oakland for one year at $10 million Tuesday. Then, hours later, the Padres reportedly reached an agreement with Jon Garland. The best remaining free-agent option appears to be John Smoltz. Asked if Sheets and Garland coming off the board meant something imminently would happen with the Mets, too, a team official replied: "No. Not now." "We're going to have to probably take some chances on some guys on minor-league offers that maybe come in and compete for the club - whether it's that fifth spot or whatever you want to call it," Omar Minaya said. The GM added: "I think Nieve is pretty much ahead of Niese right now because Nieve has pitched already this winter. We're not going to rush Jonathon" from his hamstring injury. ... As to whether Pedro Feliciano gets any lefty help out of the pen, Minaya acknowledged it's an open question. The Mets claimed Jay Marshall off waivers from the A's this winter. Minaya also identified Pat Misch and minor-leaguer Eric Niesen as candidates....The Mets will be among the teams watching lefthander Noah Lowry throw next week, ESPN.com reported. The former Giant has missed the last two seasons because of elbow/forearm injuries. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... fifth.html

Edgy DC Jan 27 2010 08:07 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

And my point is that it certainly could have used an upgrade but it was less screaming than all that, and that if you look back, fans seem to believe the team's rotation is a screaming need every offseason. We can criticize them for over-leveraging themselves in solving "last year's problems" and criticize them for refusing to recognize the "screaming need" of last year's problems but it becomes difficult to sustain both arguments at once. Simillarly, it's hard to criticize them for throwing good money after bad and at the same time asking them to go all in with questionable targets. Advocate sure, but advocacy demands perspective, even when you disagree with their choices. I may have my favorite starter out there, but I can certainly accept that throwing ten mills after Ben Sheets may not be a good investment in their eyes. And I certainly don't think "Omar couldn't get laid" is fair. The Mets clearly opted out. When John Maine emerged, he emerged after coming to camp as the number 13 starting option, and he couldn't emerge until the more expensive options got out of the way. I don't know that one or two of those listed above are about to emerge, but I'd sure enjoy it if one does, and rooting for that is more fun that getting furious over Ben Sheets, which is what's going to be happening on WFAN today, I guess. Colliding with another thread, what I want out of an owner is to spend money, I guess, sure, but I mainly care that he spends it on established players I already have a relationship with. I like that Sheets named his kid Seaver, but he's never been a Met, and so remains a suspicious and shady character who's done nothing for my team throughout his career but try to undermine it. My heart beats unbroken. Onward

G-Fafif Jan 27 2010 08:38 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

So is Parnell assumed a reliever again?

Edgy DC Jan 27 2010 08:41 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Certainly that's Plan A again.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 27 2010 08:41 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I thought I recalled the Mets already having given up on the Parnell-starter campaign. You know, not a "he shall never" but an admission they felt he was better suited to the 'pen.

Vic Sage Jan 27 2010 08:44 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

What's the deal on Bedard? He clearly has the best upside of any arm out there, including Sheets, yet i haven't heard a peep about him. He only pitched 1/2 seasons the last 2 years, but his peripherals are top-notch. Is he still hurt? Did he have surgery? Or are teams just scared of taking a chance on him?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 27 2010 08:53 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

My understanding is that he's a douchebag, not that that's terribly unusual in the jock world. Maybe that douche-health combo is too big a risk.

metirish Jan 27 2010 08:55 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

From a Hot Stove report in the Seattle times Of course, there's Erik Bedard, who said at the end of last year he was interested in returning to Seattle. But he's coming off shoulder surgeries in each of the past two seasons, so it's a risk. And I still wonder if Bedard, from his point of view, wouldn't be better off in a place where he's not forever looked upon as the guy who came to Seattle in the worst deal in the history of mankind (or something like that). From a few days ago Orioles GM Andy MacPhail believes Erik Bedard is not close to a decision on where to pitch in 2010. "[Bedard] sort of told us from the get-go that this wouldn't be an early decision, that this was something that probably would move closer to the reporting date in spring training," said MacPhail. The 30 year old was 5-3 with a 2.82 ERA in 15 games for the Mariners this past year while battling injuries. The Orioles and Royals are thought to be the top contenders for his services.

Edgy DC Jan 27 2010 09:02 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: My understanding is that he's a douchebag, not that that's terribly unusual in the jock world. Maybe that douche-health combo is too big a risk. Now that he's an option, can you please catch the rest of the room up on his douchecraft, so we can make an informed decision? He's Franco-Canadian, and sometimes French-speaking douchery can be fun. Meanwhile, maybe he and Bay can establish a Canadian Metbloc.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 27 2010 09:14 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I don't really know about his specific acts of 'baggery, it's just something I'd heard. Maybe he hates freedom or something.

metirish Jan 27 2010 09:29 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Jim Street who is Seattle's version of Marty Noble answers the mail. What ever happened to Erik Bedard? You would think the Mariners would try keeping him if they could. When healthy, he is one of the best. Did the Mariners even try to talk to Bedard? Thanks. -- Lloyd K., Port Orchard, Wash. Quite a few people tried to talk to Bedard the past two seasons, but he's not the talkative type. Nor, apparently, has he been healthy, spending more time on the disabled list than he did on the mound. As investments go, the Mariners took one on the chin with Bedard, paying him nearly $15 million (and five players, including All-Stars George Sherrill and Adam Jones) for 30 starts. My guess is that the only way Bedard, a free agent, returns to Seattle is with a visiting team. I keep hearing the Orioles, who traded him to the Mariners, might bring him back. I don't see the Mariners in his future, especially coming off shoulder surgery in back-to-back seasons. It's probably best for both sides to just turn the page and move on.

Vic Sage Jan 27 2010 09:30 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

isn't "douche" a French word? and don't we have a Canadian connection, what with Omar the former GM of Les Expos? And didn't Omar, as Expos GM, trade Grady Sizemore, etal, for Livan Hernandez? oh, wait...never mind.

G-Fafif Jan 27 2010 09:34 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: My understanding is that he's a douchebag Just once I'd like to hear a press spokesperson begin a sentence that way.

Ceetar Jan 27 2010 09:37 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I'd forgotten about Parnell. Barring a trade for a starter, does it really hurt the Mets to try Parnell out starting again in the spring? I understand guys like Niese and Nieve are more likely to 'win' spots but what's the harm? Confidence? It's not like he can't just slot into the bullpen even if he's stretched out to be a starter in spring. If anything it'll help since starter generally go easy, 90-100 pitches in the cold/early April and having Parnell comfortable for 2-3 innings could help relieve long term strain on everyone else in the pen.

MFS62 Jan 27 2010 09:43 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Vic Sage wrote: isn't "douche" a French word? and don't we have a Canadian connection, what with Omar the former GM of Les Expos? And didn't Omar, as Expos GM, trade Grady Sizemore, etal, for Livan Hernandez? oh, wait...never mind. Actually, the trade was Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips and Lee Steevens for Bartolo Colon and Tim Drew. But Omar may be forgiven because it was a salary dump mandated by Expos management. IIRC MLB istelf was calling the shots in the last days of Les Expos. As for Bedard and Bay, they are from a backgrounds that are a continent, as well as linguistically, apart. I don't see an automatic affinity there. Going back to the potential starters, I would like to see Nieve have a real shot as the #5 starter. I saw some good things there before his injury last year. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 27 2010 09:56 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 27 2010 10:24 AM

Le Bedard? Quiet guy. Strange dude, kindasorta. Rather shy around the press, I'd heard... so it seems he's douchebaggy in that "doesn't feed the douchebags" sense. He did miss a ton of starts over the last two years with "discomfort" and/or symptoms that couldn't apparently be picked up via MRIs or doctor's palpations (full disclosure: had him on fantasy teams during portions of both years... so I paid VERY close attention). If Sheets has exhibited "pussification" in the past-- as some CPFer said a few days ago-- then... let's just say Bedard is VERY strongly vaginal.

metirish Jan 27 2010 10:07 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Klapisch has Smoltz leaning towards going back to St. Louis. The Klap

Edgy DC Jan 27 2010 10:09 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Klapish needs to register with the Shutuplican Party.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 27 2010 10:23 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

The worst part is, I'm in such a bad mood, the Klaptrap is starting to sound a little like gospel to me*... the bit about them not having a bid even in on Sheets (or Garland) stings. *Ugh. If this doesn't otherwise dissipate on its own, I may have to go Ed-Norton-in-"Fight Club" on myself.

Edgy DC Jan 27 2010 10:27 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Oh, please. "The signing of Jason Bay has been virtually negated by the GM’s inertia." Show me the math there, Klap.

Ashie62 Jan 27 2010 12:37 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

G-Fafif wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: My understanding is that he's a douchebag Just once I'd like to hear a press spokesperson begin a sentence that way. Give Omar long enough and your wish may be filled

G-Fafif Jan 27 2010 12:44 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Edgy DC wrote: "The signing of Jason Bay has been virtually negated by the GM’s inertia." Show me the math there, Klap. "Bay swings, deep fly to left...but the failure to sign Ben Sheets causes it to fall harmlessly into Raul Ibanez's glove."

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 27 2010 12:57 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

He does appear to be full of Sheets on the Smoltz niblet. Discussing the Cards' signing of Rich Hill to a minor-league deal (good move, that), Joe Strauss of the St. Looie Post-Dispatch writes: After stating a need for greater competition for the rotation's final spot, the Cardinals appear unlikely to engage free agent John Smoltz about a possible return.

metirish Jan 27 2010 01:00 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

That likely leaves only the Mets as a landing spot for Smoltz , can Omar get it done. Does he have other things on his "to do list" that need his attention? SC = 11

Ashie62 Jan 27 2010 01:50 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Please Omar don't do it! Smoltz, scrape off your uni and tend to your family

Centerfield Jan 28 2010 07:38 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I thought I remember reading that Bedard was not only an injury risk, but that he was actually hurt. And that he wouldn't be ready for Opening Day. If that's not true, I say make an offer and bring him in. The Mets have plenty of douchebag fans that need a hero.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 28 2010 07:53 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

There was something in the Daily News today about Smoltz perhaps preferring not to sign at all rather than sign with the Mets. He would wait until a contender is desperate for a starter, and then sign. (Like Pedro did last year.)

Edgy DC Jan 28 2010 07:59 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Worked twice for Clemens also. Not a bad move for some of these guys, it seems. Maybe Schilling tries that shit this year also.

TransMonk Jan 28 2010 08:22 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Speaking of Pedro...I'd almost prefer him to Smoltz if we are talking about a spot in the rotation.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 28 2010 08:42 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

TransMonk wrote: Speaking of Pedro...I'd almost prefer him to Smoltz if we are talking about a spot in the rotation. This. Sorta... it would be a toss-up for me. (Although it would help my Free-Agent Derby chances, too, so... awesome!)

Farmer Ted Jan 28 2010 11:24 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

DN noting that Misch will be brought into camp as a starter. Possible 5th man or gap-filler due to injury. The leftie version of Figgy.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 28 2010 07:52 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Davidoff sez Smoltz-to-Flushing is like a fat man going down a waterslide: gaining momentum. It's believed that Smoltz wants a deal for about $4 million guaranteed, plus performance bonuses. Cooper said Smoltz is preparing to pitch for the entire season and is not contemplating the half-season run that Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez have popularized in recent years... If the Mets sign Smoltz, they could use their current fifth starter, Fernando Nieve, as a reliever and give more time to recovering youngster Jon Niese, who tore his right hamstring last August. And if the Mets falter again despite success by Smoltz, they could trade him to a pennant contender in the season's second half. This might have been a better idea with a younger, better injury-risky FA pitcher, no?

Fman99 Jan 28 2010 08:03 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

This thread makes my brain/heart/cock/anus hurt.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 28 2010 08:07 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Wow, that's the Grand Slam!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 28 2010 08:10 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Fman99 wrote: This thread makes my brain/heart/cock/anus hurt. So it's pretty much just like any other Thursday Night at Fman's GomorrahHaus.

metirish Jan 28 2010 08:13 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

A kick in the cunt would complete an fman cycle

metirish Jan 29 2010 07:42 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Mets, Smoltz looking more and more like a fit January 28, 2010 By KEN DAVIDOFF ken.davidoff@newsday.com The Mets and John Smoltz aren't quite ready to announce a new partnership, but increased momentum toward such a union exists as the Mets search for pitching help and Smoltz, 42, looks for a team with which he can continue his Hall of Fame-caliber career. Lonnie Cooper, Smoltz's representative, told Newsday Thursday that he has been in touch with the Mets regarding a deal for Smoltz. Although the Mets haven't made an official offer to the righthander, they have expressed enthusiasm about bringing him aboard, according to multiple people familiar with the situation. Smoltz, likewise, is encouraged by the Mets' interest, according to a source familiar with the situation. It's believed that Smoltz wants a deal for about $4 million guaranteed, plus performance bonuses. Cooper said Smoltz is preparing to pitch for the entire season and is not contemplating the half-season run that Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez have popularized in recent years. "At John's age right now, he's going to know when it's the right deal," Cooper said. "We're just having good dialogue. We're looking at all of our options." Smoltz, who lives in the Atlanta area, doesn't want to pitch too far from home; he turned down feelers from West Coast teams earlier this offseason. He also would prefer to stay in the National League after his 2009 stay with the Red Sox resulted in his release. He wanted to return to the Cardinals, who signed him to finish out last season. St. Louis, however, hasn't expressed serious interest in re-signing Smoltz. "We're getting a lot of calls," Cooper said, but the Mets might be the best positioned to sign their former rival Brave. They have an opening in their rotation, geographical proximity and at least the intention of contending for a playoff spot. Those chances at contending, of course, have taken a hit because of the Mets' failure to sign any of the top free-agent starting pitchers this offseason. Ultimately, the Mets could land Smoltz for the same reason they signed Jason Bay: They might be his best option by far. If the Mets sign Smoltz, they could use their current fifth starter, Fernando Nieve, as a reliever and give more time to recovering youngster Jon Niese, who tore his right hamstring last August. And if the Mets falter again despite success by Smoltz, they could trade him to a pennant contender in the season's second half.

Nymr83 Jan 29 2010 07:48 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Davidoff wrote: Those chances at contending, of course, have taken a hit because of the Mets' failure to sign any of the top free-agent starting pitchers this offseason There was exactly one "top" free agent starter this offseason, and the Mets chose not to make an obscene offer for his services. Everyone else was a question mark in one way or another and I'd bet that after Lackey you'd have a hard time accurately ranking their expected perfomance for the coming few years.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 29 2010 07:50 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

That's pretty much what Omar said last night on Hot Stove. He acknowledged that the Mets pitchers were a lot of ifs, but that other than Lackey, all the other options were ifs as well and he couldn't be certain that the external ifs were any better than the ifs he already had. It's a valid point. But I'd rather have five iffy guys than three iffy guys, because it gives you better odds of finding the guys whose ifs will turn into yeses.

Edgy DC Jan 29 2010 07:57 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I think the Mets do have five iffy guys behind Santana, though.

MFS62 Jan 29 2010 09:45 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I thought I heard that John Niese was at mini camp and has been throwing. The injury seems to be ok. While he might need some time at AAA, I think he will become the fifth starter early in the season. He showed some nice flashes last year. Later

Benjamin Grimm Jan 29 2010 01:51 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

There continue to be conflicting reports about Smoltz. [list:23axssql]He's nearing a deal with the Mets. He has no interest in the Mets. He's leaning towards returning to St. Louis. St. Louis isn't interested. He wants to pitch a full season. He's going to wait until the middle of the season.[/list:u:23axssql] You know what? He wasn't my first choice, or my second choice, or my third choice, or... But I find myself kind of hoping they sign him, at least if the alternative is that they don't sign anyone at all. I expect that the Mets rotation is going to be awfully thin this year, and I'd be glad to have one more potential guy in the mix.

metirish Jan 29 2010 01:56 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

At this stage I hope he signs too. It shouldn't matter and I shouldn't care but every time a player signs elsewhere it's brings an avalanche of shit down on the Mets....it's their fault.....it's beyond stupid but it's the theme of this offseason.

Edgy DC Jan 29 2010 02:05 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

It's not like they won't get an avalanche if he does sign with them, because they certainly will.

metirish Jan 29 2010 04:07 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Heyman saying the Mets have fallen behind in the Smoltz derby...his words. Says are one of a few teams looking at Frank Catalonatto.......

Edgy DC Jan 29 2010 05:42 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

There's a Smoltz Derby, Jon? I had no idea?

Edgy DC Feb 01 2010 09:00 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

The Mets are allegedly kicking Noah Lowry, who has missed 2+ seasons over what the agent claims was a misdiagnosed injury by his club. And it wasn't the Mets.

Nymr83 Feb 01 2010 09:51 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Noah Lowry? wow. If he's really looking healthy why not?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 01 2010 10:04 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Lowry was scheduled to toss a Sheets-y audition tomorrow for about 15-16 teams... but it's been pushed back a bit due to stage fright. Sorta. "He's close to where he wants to be," Lapa said Monday in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. "We're confident once Noah throws for teams questions will be answered. Noah's missed a lot of time and understands the importance of this audition. If he's at 90 percent now, we're going to allow him the time to get to 100 percent because we know clubs have questions based on the time he's missed."

Centerfield Feb 04 2010 12:35 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Bedard to the M's. $1.5 million, reportedly. Yes, that's $500,000.00 less than Alex Cora for those keeping score at home. (Yes, I'm sure that there are incentives and the deal is not official yet, I'm just saying...)

Rockin' Doc Feb 04 2010 08:31 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Maybe Omar is hoping Cora has a little Desi Relaford in him.

Nymr83 Feb 04 2010 11:27 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Centerfield wrote: Bedard to the M's. $1.5 million, reportedly. Yes, that's $500,000.00 less than Alex Cora for those keeping score at home. (Yes, I'm sure that there are incentives and the deal is not official yet, I'm just saying...) now theres a guy i feel the Mets let slip at that price tag because i wouldn't have blinked if Wilpon paid double

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 04 2010 11:40 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Rockin' Doc wrote: Maybe Omar is hoping Cora has a little Desi Relaford in him. He'd better hope so. He's paying the guy three Desis worth of dinars.

Ashie62 Feb 05 2010 07:15 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Nymr83 wrote: Centerfield wrote: Bedard to the M's. $1.5 million, reportedly. Yes, that's $500,000.00 less than Alex Cora for those keeping score at home. (Yes, I'm sure that there are incentives and the deal is not official yet, I'm just saying...) now theres a guy i feel the Mets let slip at that price tag because i wouldn't have blinked if Wilpon paid double It's the Wilpon's...a little tight with a buck

Benjamin Grimm Feb 05 2010 08:16 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I have to wonder, would a team with a $140 million payroll get all these accusations of "cheapness" if the owners weren't Jewish? Just asking.

Edgy DC Feb 05 2010 08:19 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I used to wonder that also. Of course, Jews seem to throw the "tight" and "cheap" label at the Wilpons just as much.

Frayed Knot Feb 05 2010 08:25 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

My personal view is that the Wilpon cheapness angle generally comes both as a result of comparison to the Steinbrenner Yanquis and with the notion that spending should be linked to personal wealth regardless of revenue streams rather than being connected to religious stereotype/slander.

MFS62 Feb 05 2010 09:18 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

The Madoff scandal was widely publicized. He, as well as many of his victims, were Jewish. Nobody really knows how much money they lost. (although current court settlement lawsuits may reveal much of that information) But nobody also knows how much money Fred also may have lost with the decline of the real estate market the past few years. Yes, there have been stories this off season about a "limit" on team spending. He has been called "Freddie coupon" as in looking for bargains. I don't think any of those stories have said, or even intimated, it is because he is Jewish. As you've probably figured out by now, I would have been very sensitive to those kinds of things, and haven't picked up on that. Of course, it might depend on the paradigm through which you read them. But there also have been stories in which Omar and Fred have claimed there is no limit. Nobody knows which is correct. Nor do we know why they haven't spent as much as some fans would have liked. (FK nailed the Steinbrenner comparison angle) As has been written here at the CPF, they have spent. And since there weren't any other of the "name" players they felt were substantially better than what they already have, why spend? Especially since there is a crop of players coming up through the system who will be filling some of those perceived holes shortly. Later

Willets Point Feb 05 2010 09:26 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I think "penny wise, pound foolish" may more accurately describe the Wilpons.

Ashie62 Feb 05 2010 12:09 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Willets Point wrote: I think "penny wise, pound foolish" may more accurately describe the Wilpons. I like that..I never thought of it as Jewish "issue" or not, I just think it's baseball in NY I like your avatar also..He looks so happy!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 05 2010 01:50 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

So it seems our FO has reached the "beer goggles" stage of the offseason. Pitcher Todd Wellemeyer reportedly told a St. Louis radio station that the Mets are one of three teams interested in signing him. Wellemeyer appeared on Team 1380 to say it's doubtful he would return to the Cardinals, with the Mets, Rockies or Giants his likely landing spot, perhaps in the next three days. Wellemeyer, a 31-year-old right-hander, started 21 games for the Cardinals last season, He was 7-10 with a 5.89 ERA. Opponents batted .328 against him.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 09 2010 03:34 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Nothing new on Wellemeyer. On Wang, the boat appears to be leaving the dock. It seems the Mets are contemplating stopping by the travel agent on the way home to express their interest in buying a ticket for this boat. Wang sweepstakes heat up -- 3:09 p.m. If the Dodgers or Mets intend to sign free-agent right-hander Chien-Ming Wang, they will need to accelerate their pursuits. Wang, 30, has received offers from two other, unidentified clubs, according to a major-league source. He likely will make a decision within 7 to 10 days, the source said. Various teams are at different points in the process with Wang. The Dodgers are lagging, the source said, and the Mets are further behind... ...Several clubs have sent their trainers and/or pitching coaches to watch Wang, who is throwing three times a week. Some teams already have given Wang physicals; once he agrees to a deal, that part of the process will be complete.

Edgy DC Feb 09 2010 06:45 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Big whoop.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 10 2010 09:32 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Oh yeah? Well, I answer your lack of genuine whoop with an utterly vague report of offers from the Nats, who seem to be shopping from the same list as our Metsies, with a good deal more success. The scuttlebutt from a veritable nation of Tweeters is that it's 2 million guaranteed, with a chance to double that with incentives. The Dodgers are apparently out. The Mets, Phils, and Cards-- all rumored to have reached out to him earlier-- have nothing confirmed on the offer board. Todd Wellemeyer, meanwhile, inks a minor-league deal, according to the future XfinitySportsNet-Bay Area.

Edgy DC Feb 10 2010 09:53 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Good for the Nats. They need these guys more. Seriously, it's not that I think the Mets have an excellent thing going, because I don't. And it's not that I think they aren't operating from a reduced budget, because I suspect they may be. I suspect most teams may be. But I just don't think fishing in shallow pools is the answer. If this season is to be undone, it's not because last year indicated the players we see this year. If it's to be undone, it's because one or more of the guys taken down by injury will get hurt again. Injuries tend beget injuries, and they tend to portend downturns, that's life. The reason I more or less approve of what they're doing anyhow is that (1) they haven't saboutaged their development pipeline in desperately trying to save last season or this (Stevie says they're barren, I say they ain't, and they're getting less barren every day; and (2) if they indeed have money left, they might as well save it until they know what they're actual need is and aquire some help mid-season, if necessary. They had more or less a complete team on opening day last season (give or take a fifth starter). That team didn't fail to succeed, so much as fail to stay healthy. Returning the whole team (replacing Delgado with Bay and swapping catchers and relievers) means they have more or less a full team again, if more unstable. Somewhere, they will blow a gasket again, but I don't know where. And I'm not sure they should blow their money on Sheets or Garland or Wang in fear that Ollie will blow, when two months from now it'll be Beltran. Or why fill the big-league roster with a costly replacement for Beltran when he might be fine, or Martinez may be suddenly ready to step in? Or it might be Reyes who gets hurt again! Goodness gracious, Reyes! Why did we blow our last dollar landing some Chin-Ming Wang when we need a shortstop? They probably won't win the big thingie, but they have ripening talent, chose not to screw with it, have guys returning from injury, and landed one of the top two hitters on the market to fill a very specific need. The rest of these guys, well, they ain't Mets, and that's that. I don't think the Nats have been more successful. I don't think the Mets are really fishing in their pond at all. And really, do we actually want more Tim Reddings? Isn't it obvious that we'd have been better off if his starts went to Nieve or Figueroa or even Stokes? High-end guys on minor league contracts give you the flexibility that low-end guys and major league dealios deny you.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 10 2010 10:14 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Fair points, all. And yeah, I'm making my peace with the roster we'll likely be watching, and the moves-- or lack thereof-- that got us there. And I'm okay with it, mostly. (And mostly for points 1 and 2.) I mean, we'd have no way of knowing, really, whether the Mets have at some point this offseason offered Fernando Martinez, Jenrry Mejia, and Ike Davis for Brandon Arroyo and a bowl of Skyline and been turned down. But the end result-- a marked lack of panic moves from a GM who's been very publicly on the hot seat-- is something (presuming it sticks) for which I'll be eternally thankful to O, regardless of his fate. Really, the one reason I'm not happier is that the one big move they made doesn't quite fit with these successes. In Bay, they've made what looks to be something of a Pedro contract-- 4 years guaranteed to assure 1-2 good ones, with decline likely in the latter portion of the shebang. If he's performing now at the latter portion of his peak, and there are plenty of one-to-two-year upgrades available, then why waste that performance (and one last 1-2 year stretch of an under-market Reyes and Wright)? Why not go crazy with one-year, high-reward deals? [Or, conversely... if you want to use this as more of an evaluation/lick-the-wounds year... then why sign Bay at all?] I will, however, allow that $2 million is a lot to pay for Wang. I don't know if I could ever shell out that much money for any Wang, much less a possibly-broken Wang with performance-sustenance issues.

duan Feb 11 2010 05:22 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

i said it somewhere else, but 2011's a year when a whale load of contracts & tendering rights end. in 2011 we're already committed to $108.613, 11 milion to Reyes and SEVEN players in arbitration which i reckon will get around 16-20 million. That's almost $140 already. but for 2012 we're commited to $60.875 in order of probably '11 salary beltran (20), perez (12), reyes (11), castillo(6), francoeur (6), Maine (5) are all free agents, plus francico rodriguez if option isn't triggered. *** way i read it, they are tight for money this year especially and that next year's the one where they can take the risks and especially deferred salary style FA deals. You're right in that Bay jars with that, and that if they weren't going to sign another big FA they'd have been better filling all the slots that they think might be below Major League average BP.com suggested - "Gregg Zaun, Adam LaRoche, and Johnny Damon to fill their lineup more evenly, adding about one win at catcher, another 1-2 wins at first base, and another two wins with Damon. The cost of Zaun was $2.15 million, LaRoche got $5.5 million, and Damon could probably be had for about $7 " and they'd have some flexibilty next year and even more in 2012.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 11 2010 10:51 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

That aching Takahashi void, gnawing at the back of our minds from the back of the roster since Ken's contract expired in October? Consider it sated. Since 1997, when they signed an obscure reliever out of the Japanese minor leagues, the Mets have had more players from Japan than any other major league team. That international connection remains strong to this day and now the Mets are close to adding their second Japanese pitcher of the off-season. With only days to go before spring training, the Mets were on the verge of agreeing to terms Thursday with the veteran left-handed pitcher Hisanori Takahashi on a minor league contract, according to a person in baseball with knowledge of the situation who asked not to be identified because no one was authorized to speak publicly on the matter. (LWFS: Someone's losing a finger because of this dishonor, isn't he?) Takahashi, who spent the last 10 years with Tokyo’s Yomiuri Giants, chose the Mets over the Dodgers, the Orioles, the Red Sox and the Padres, all of whom offered minor league contracts as well. But the Mets made the strongest offer, believed to be worth about $1 million if Takahashi makes the major league team, with a chance to make roughly an additional $500,000 in performance bonuses. Adding Takahashi, who turns 35 on April 2, indicates the Mets do not expect to sign John Smoltz, who is said to be seeking at least $3 million. With an inconsistent career in Japan, his relatively small size and the low velocity of his fastball, Takahashi did not generate a groundswell of interest in the United States since declaring he would leave Japan after last season. But he will be given a chance to compete for the Mets’ fifth starter’s job, and could also be used out of the bullpen. Unless the Mets sign or trade for another pitcher, Takahashi will compete with Fernando Nieve and Jon Niese for the final spot in the rotation, although with his experience there is a chance he could move to a higher position in the rotation before long. Takahashi played his entire career in Japan for the Giants in the Central League, where designated hitters and small ballparks make life a challenge for pitchers. After being drafted first by the Giants in 1999, he has had some outstanding seasons, and some relatively unimpressive ones as well. He has also pitched some big games in the postseason for the Giants with mixed results. He is listed at 5 feet 10 inches and 172 pounds and is said to throw 86 to 90 miles an hour. He has five pitches, all of which he uses at various points in the count to keep hitters off balance, and he does not shy away from challenging hitters. Last season he was 10-6 with a 2.94 earned run average and struck out 126 batters and walked 36 in 144 innings. His best season was 2007, when he went 14-4 with a 2.75 E.R.A., made the Central League All-Star team and was named to the Best Nine, meaning he was considered the best pitcher in that league. If he makes the Mets, Takahashi, along with reliever Ryota Igarashi, who was signed in December, will become the 10th and 11th Japanese players to play for the Mets. The first was Takashi Kashiwada, a minor leaguer in the Giants system who appeared in 32 games for the Mets in 1997.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 11 2010 10:57 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Takahashi, who spent the last 10 years with Tokyo’s Yomiuri Giants, chose the Mets over the Dodgers, the Orioles, the Red Sox and the Padres.... I like this pick-up, but only because the Red Sox were also interested in Takahashi. That's gotta be a good thing ... right?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 11 2010 11:06 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

If Beruit were in the running, no way would he have chosen the Mets.

Centerfield Feb 11 2010 11:07 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I get nervous when I hear a guy has 5 pitches. Usually that means none of them are good. Maybe a LOOGY?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 11 2010 12:08 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Minor league deal, so he's eminently stashable if he doesn't dazzle (and Nieve, Niese or Nelly does). Also... maybe he throws a gyroball!

Swan Swan H Feb 11 2010 12:11 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Right you are, Hisanori.

metirish Feb 11 2010 12:27 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Five fucking pitches and all of them right down the middle....fuck

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 11 2010 12:30 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

More on our man Hisanori from NPB Tracker. No gyroball... but there's a screwball! Welcome to Hisamania, naysayers! Is coming off a solid 2009 campaign: 10-6, 2.94 ERA, 121/36 K/BB in 144 IP Isn’t going to overwhelm anyone with an 85-90 mph fastball Has an excellent screwball, which he induces grounders and misses bats with; should be a plus pitch at the MLB level as well Also has a two-seam fastball, slider and curve; the two-seamer is a pretty good pitch Has never been a huge innings eater in Japan: career high is 186.2 IP (2007), has twice thrown 163 (2002, 2005), next highest total is 144 (2009) Was not a lefty killer in 2009: lefties hit .300 against him (48/160), while holding righties to .250 (99/396) Did keep lefties in the park in 2009: only three of his 16 home runs allowed came against lefties

smg58 Feb 11 2010 02:19 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Screwball pitchers do tend to have reverse platoon splits. He's probably not a difference maker, but cheap redundancy never hurts.

Edgy DC Feb 16 2010 02:01 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

The Nationals, after completely opting out of the starting pitcher market the last two offseasons, are feasting this winter, gobbling up Chien-Ming Wang and his 9.64 ERA.

TransMonk Feb 16 2010 02:10 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

The Nationals may not finish last this season. The NL East is going to be fun/nerve-racking.

metirish Feb 16 2010 02:12 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Coming for the all powerful AL East Wang should eat up the weak NL East , something like that anyway...

Ashie62 Feb 16 2010 03:15 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Non of the players in the poll made it to the Mets-yet I'd like Papier Meche in July

Edgy DC Mar 15 2010 07:35 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Ben Sheets' line today against Cincinnati: IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA Salary Appearance 0.0 8 10 9 1 0 1 31.15 $10,000,000 Overweight

seawolf17 Mar 15 2010 07:42 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

metirish wrote: Coming for the all powerful AL East Wang should eat up the weak NL East , something like that anyway... How on earth did someone include the words "eat" and "Wang" in the same post, and yet draw nary a comment from fman, even two months later? His radar is off.

metirish Mar 15 2010 08:25 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Ben Sheets' line today against Cincinnati: IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA Salary Appearance 0.0 8 10 9 1 0 1 31.15 $10,000,000 Overweight WOW he's a fat fucker .... fat fucker

Valadius Mar 15 2010 10:03 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Broxton's got nothing on Sheets.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 15 2010 11:04 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Valadius wrote: Broxton's got nothing on Sheets. He's got height and health.

Fman99 Mar 16 2010 02:31 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

metirish wrote: Coming for the all powerful AL East Wang should eat up the weak NL East , something like that anyway... I think you've got it backwards, and the NL East will gulp down on some tasty fat Wang this year. (OE: I was in Florida on vacation when this post came out last month, hence my tardiness.)

Fman99 Mar 16 2010 02:32 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Valadius wrote: Broxton's got nothing on Sheets. Seriously, I am thinking of adding "Resemblance to Fred 'Rerun' Berry" as a category in our NL-only fantasy baseball league.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 16 2010 07:05 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Fman99 wrote: Valadius wrote: Broxton's got nothing on Sheets. Seriously, I am thinking of adding "Resemblance to Fred 'Rerun' Berry" as a category in our NL-only fantasy baseball league. Now there's a man who could've been the leader of the crew-- full of energy and spark-- if he hadn't spent all his time coming up with stupid celebration dances and hand-jive*. They should have traded him for Jimmie Walker or Kolchak the Night Stalker. *And surreptitious taping of Doobie Brothers concerts.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 31 2010 01:14 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Adam Rubin (of ESPN) is saying that the Mets will open the season with a rotation of Santana-Maine-Niese-Pelfrey-Perez. It looks like Jerry decided to give Santana the Opening Day start, which only makes sense, and then he switches to alphabetical order.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 31 2010 01:18 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

I've been on the Ollie Express since the offseason, figuring that he's just got to be good again or the Mets will just cut his ass. Now I'm thinking that they just might cut his ass. Short lease for certain.

Frayed Knot Mar 31 2010 01:19 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Adam Rubin (of ESPN) is saying that the Mets will open the season with a rotation of Santana-Maine-Niese-Pelfrey-Perez. It looks like Jerry decided to give Santana the Opening Day start, which only makes sense, and then he switches to alphabetical order. Johan then alpha order makes it easier to remember who's pitching the next day. I'm sure that's why Jerry did it that way.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 31 2010 01:19 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

So, Ollie gets skipped the first few go-rounds, then?

Frayed Knot Mar 31 2010 01:23 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

So, Ollie gets skipped the first few go-rounds, then? Doubt it. They haven't skipped the #5 'round these parts in years and Jerry indicated earlier in the spring that they weren't likely to do it this year either.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 31 2010 01:30 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: So, Ollie gets skipped the first few go-rounds, then? I doubt it. The four-man April rotation seems to be a thing of the past.

Ashie62 Mar 31 2010 01:42 PM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: So, Ollie gets skipped the first few go-rounds, then? Maybe? It seems plans in Queens can change with any 2 game losing streak anymore.

TransMonk Apr 02 2010 08:05 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Niese named to SI's Ten MLB rookies to keep tabs on list http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... n&hpt=Sbin Jon Niese, Mets SP Pitching coach Dan Warthen has proclaimed Niese's curveball to be the best in Mets camp, and that wasn't even the 23-year-old southpaw's most effective pitch in last season's 25 2/3 inning major-league cameo. That honor belonged to Niese's cutter, which he throws 87 mph to great effect, inducing a high 1.4 groundball-to-flyball ratio. A high school teammate of Dodgers starter Chad Billingsley, Niese could pitch as high as third in the Mets' rotation this season. He's gotten results at every level of the minor leagues (a career strikeout rate of 8.2 per nine innings), including an eight-start stretch in Triple A last summer in which he went 5-1 with a 0.96 ERA. With some notable left-handed power bats like Ryan Howard of the Phillies and Adam Dunn of the Nationals in the lineups of NL East foes, Niese should fare well.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 02 2010 08:10 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

He still has his rookie status? (I wasn't sure about that.) It would be nice to have a Rookie-of-the-Year candidate, although it seems as if that outfielder in Atlanta may suck all the oxygen out of the competition. (If he performs as expected, that is.)

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 02 2010 09:34 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Benjamin Grimm wrote: He still has his rookie status? (I wasn't sure about that.) It would be nice to have a Rookie-of-the-Year candidate, although it seems as if that outfielder in Atlanta may suck all the oxygen out of the competition. (If he performs as expected, that is.) Less than 50 innings pitched, so... yep. Lot of supertalented rooks expected to come out this year, no? (And the AL seems even more packed-- Matusz, Feliz, TB's Wade Davis and Jeremy Hellickson, Austin Jackson, Desmond Jennings, Carlos Santana, the other Chris Carter, Kyle Drabek...)

Ashie62 Apr 02 2010 10:20 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Benjamin Grimm wrote: He still has his rookie status? (I wasn't sure about that.) It would be nice to have a Rookie-of-the-Year candidate, although it seems as if that outfielder in Atlanta may suck all the oxygen out of the competition. (If he performs as expected, that is.) Jon Niese, your 2010 NL ROY Candidate

seawolf17 Apr 02 2010 10:58 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

Ashie62 wrote: Jon Niese, your 2010 NL ROY Candidate "Dude? Please don't go there."

metirish Apr 02 2010 11:05 AM Re: Starting Pitcher for 2010

That reminds me, Omir has left the team too for family reasons.