Master Index of Archived Threads


Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Yes

11 votes

No

21 votes

Undecided (I'm Sitting on the Fence on this one)

7 votes

batmagadanleadoff Jan 06 2010 10:22 AM

What, if anything, should the Mets do about the Citi Field fences? A poll, and an article. Klapisch: Moving in fences is Wright move Whatever you think about the $66 million the Mets have invested in Jason Bay – whether it could’ve been better spent on John Lackey or tucked away for a run at next year’s elite crop of free agents – this much is irrefutable: Home runs have become the most critical currency at Citi Field. It’s a ambitious change in philosophy, considering the Mets hit the fewest HRs in the National League last year. But overwhelming firepower obviously worked for the Yankees and the Mets have a chance to emulate that formula in 2010. With Bay coming off a 36-homer season in Boston, Mets now have the potential to rival the Phillies in sheer muscle. That is, if Carlos Beltran can stay healthy all year, if Carlos Delgado returns and David Wright finds his 2008 stroke. And we haven’t mentioned Jeff Francoeur, who could bat as low as seventh in this power-laden lineup. The mitigating factor, of course, is Citi Field itself and its daunting 16-foot wall in left-center and even crazier 415-foot power alley in right center, 44 feet deeper than it was at Shea Stadium. The Mets don’t appear to be close to any significant up grades in their starting rotation, so if they want to improve their run-differential why not maximize their HR quotient by reconfiguring the ballpark? Doing so would ensure that Bay remains a 30-homer threat, and more importantly, would give Wright a much-needed helping hand. Club officials admit Wright’s transition to Citi was less than encouraging – he hit only five HRs at home – but are waiting to see how the third baseman responds to this year’s bolstered lineup. “Obviously something was very wrong,” is how one official described Wright’s drop-off. That’s one reason the Mets ultimately chose Bay over Lackey and why Omar Minaya flatly said Tuesday, “We felt we had to slug more.” That represents a critical shift by a team that tailored its monstrous new ballpark around pitching, speed and athleticism. The formula worked – to a degree. According to ESPN.com’s park factors that were released Tuesday, Citi was the major leagues’ seventh-easiest place to hit a triple in 2009. The Mets finished second in the NL in triples, but were last in the East (and 12th overall) in runs scored. Injuries obviously played a huge role in that disparity, but the Mets hardly can be called a young, fleet team anymore. Even if everyone returns to full health in 2010, who other than Jose Reyes actually can take turn doubles into triples? Bay’s home runs are more important than Reyes’ triples, which is why Citi needs to become less asymmetrical and more conventional – and realistic – in the outfield. Will it happen? It’s not impossible. Officials plan to see how Bay and Wright fare in 2010 before bringing in the fences. Wright, in particular, will be watched closely: With Bay hitting behind him, he’ll get better pitches to hit and should return to his 33-home run form in 2008. Still, some believe Wright’s home run drought had nothing to do with Citi, since he hit only five HRs on the road last year. One talent evaluator, however, believes Citi was entirely at fault, noting Wright’s swing was so radically altered trying to reach the fences in Flushing, he developed bad habits that become permanent, home and away. “I think the whole thing [about hitting home runs] got into his head and he was never able to fix that,” said the scout. Bay could be the antidote, as he seems to have the right mix of power, on-base ability and maturity to handle what awaits him in 2010. The new left fielder glided through Tuesday’s introductory press conference with grace and professionalism, which is exactly how he accepted the burden of being Manny Ramirez’s successor in Boston. Bay spoke glowingly (and convincingly) about the Mets, saying his experience with the Red Sox had whetted his appetite for winning. Bay was smart enough to avoid the obvious follow-up: If he was so enamored with Fenway’s winning culture, why did he – a refugee of 5½ losing seasons in Pittsburgh – refuse the Sox’ offer of four years and $60 million in July? Bay would only say, “I don’t want to get into that.” Clearly, he and agent Joe Urbon misjudged the market as the Red Sox’ package ultimately shrank to three years, $44 million. The Mets were far and away Bay’s best option, maybe his only one. But if was Bay was at all disappointed at the way the Sox backed away, he didn’t show it. Instead, blissfully ignoring the last three years of frustration in Flushing, Bay noted his new team’s formidable on-paper talent and asked, “What’s not to like?” http://www.northjersey.com/sports/01061 ... _move.html

MFS62 Jan 06 2010 10:31 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

No. Anything Klapisch is for, I'm automatically against. Later

TransMonk Jan 06 2010 10:34 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

The fences are fine.

Edgy MD Jan 06 2010 10:35 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I can go for standardizing the height.

Centerfield Jan 06 2010 10:41 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Me too. A lower height. And no stupid alcove in RF.

metsmarathon Jan 06 2010 10:45 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

since wright hit all those homers on the road, and so many fewer at home, yeah, i can totally see how moving in the fences would be the obvious cure. i mean, look how many homers our home took away from the team, when you look at how much power they were able to show on the road. the mind boggles at how much more offense we could've gained last year!

Chad Ochoseis Jan 06 2010 10:47 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Boob Klapisch wrote: who other than Jose Reyes actually can take turn doubles into triples? David Wright. Carlos Beltran, if he stays healthy. Angel Pagan. Possibly FMart, if he sticks with the big club. That's more combined speed/power hitters than most teams have. Plus, their ace pitcher is a fly ball pitcher who is helped by CF's dimensions. The genius also wrote: Still, some believe Wright’s home run drought had nothing to do with Citi, since he hit only five HRs on the road last year. One talent evaluator, however, believes Citi was entirely at fault, noting Wright’s swing was so radically altered trying to reach the fences in Flushing, he developed bad habits that become permanent, home and away. So, the idea here is to bring the fences in so that Wright will swing for them even more, thus completely screwing up his hitting ability, right? Never mind that the park is going to be around far longer than the current Mets team will be.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 06 2010 10:50 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 06 2010 10:52 AM

I'm undecided. I'd like to see a few more seasons worth of data. But I would be inclined to move the fences in and/or reduce some of the height if it turns out that CF negates HR's to a greater extent than most other stadiums.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 06 2010 10:50 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

It's weird to me how many writers jumped on the CitiField-is-killing-David-Wright bandwagon, when two mouse clicks over to Baseball-Reference's 2009 splits* show you that the stadium didn't cause the power outage**. That said... I'm undecided-- you've got to see at least 2-3 years of numbers before you can make anything like an informed decision. I am positive, though, about cutting the fences down. I want some home run-saves... or at least, the future prospect of same. *In what other field-- entertainment, sports, politics, science-- are the professional journalists who cover the field not only so ill-informed, but wear their ignorance/laziness as badges of honor? **Unless his approach changed as a result of his thinking re: same. But that's more of a Wright mental issue than a physical-plant one.

metsmarathon Jan 06 2010 10:56 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

well, i do believe his approach changed this year, and i expect that's most likely due to the size of the park. but the solution to that problem is not changing the park, but changing the approach, and it amazes me to think that this is not the clearly most obvious answer.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 06 2010 10:57 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: It's weird to me how many writers jumped on the CitiField-is-killing-David-Wright bandwagon, when two mouse clicks over to Baseball-Reference's 2009 splits* show you that the stadium didn't cause the power outage** Ten HR's (Wright's 2009 totals) is too small a sample size to exonerate Citi Field as the cause of Wright's power shortage last season. One possible explanation for Wright's neutral home-road splits might simply be that by sheer coincidence, the four or five longest balls that Wright hit in 2009 were all hit at Citi Field. This would mask the possibility that CF is reducing Wright's home HR's.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 06 2010 11:03 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: It's weird to me how many writers jumped on the CitiField-is-killing-David-Wright bandwagon, when two mouse clicks over to Baseball-Reference's 2009 splits* show you that the stadium didn't cause the power outage** Ten HR's (Wright's 2009 totals) is too small a sample size to determine whether Citi Field caused Wright's power shortage last season. One possible explanation for Wright's neutral home-road splits might simply be that by sheer coincidence, the four or five longest balls that Wright hit in 2009 were all hit at Citi Field. This would mask the possibility that CF is reducing Wright's home HR's. A fair point-- owing to sample size, the numbers really don't-- and can't-- disprove anything (although some "near-miss" data from Hittracker suggests that your guess isn't quite right, either). Neither, however, do they begin to prove any sort of direct deleterious effect of the park's dimensions on Wright's production-- the Wright-versus-Citi stories are 100-percent confirmation-bias-borne. Even more nettlesome... the far more interesting story is being missed here by most MSM-ites-- that Wright's power drop last year is historically weird.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 06 2010 11:09 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metsmarathon wrote: but the solution to that problem is not changing the park, but changing the approach, and it amazes me to think that this is not the clearly most obvious answer. Exactly. I'm not necessarily opposed to eventually changing the ballpark configuration at some point; there's nothing wrong with a little tinkering as we get to know what the park is really like, but doing it now is, as others have said, too much of an overreaction based on a small sample size. Give it a few years.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 06 2010 11:10 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: the far more interesting story is being missed here by most MSM-ites-- that Wright's power drop last year is historically WEIRD. This is the most interesting aspect of Wright's drop in HR's. Have you come across any worthwhile articles attempting to discuss Wright's power shortage in historical context? I haven't.

Edgy MD Jan 06 2010 11:14 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Chad Ochoseis wrote: Boob Klapisch wrote: who other than Jose Reyes actually can take turn doubles into triples? David Wright. Carlos Beltran, if he stays healthy. Angel Pagan. Possibly FMart, if he sticks with the big club. Add Anderson Hernandez and Alex Cora and plenty of guys we've yet to meet. Re-engineering the ballpark to suit the current makeup of the team is the kind on narrow-minded shortsigned, self-centered approach I can only think of as Steinbrennerian. It's malfecant!

Frayed Knot Jan 06 2010 11:14 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I'm for tinkering a bit just to get rid of some of the more gimmicky "quirks" rather than as a solution to any hitting problem - perceived or real.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 06 2010 11:33 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

the far more interesting story is being missed here by most MSM-ites-- that Wright's power drop last year is historically WEIRD. This is the most interesting aspect of Wright's drop in HR's. Have you come across any worthwhile articles attempting to discuss Wright's power shortage in historical context? I haven't. ACTUALLY... Stumbled onto this piece yesterday, on Patrick Flood's Mets Blog (a newcomer to the 'sphere, apparently... and a hell of a regular read, if the first two months are any indication). That article tries to put Wright in context historically (in short: he's in good company among those who've had such outages... but disturbingly young to have one), while these two look at his struggles against fastballs/swing speed last year and where he hit 'em. Good, nutritious-- and funny*-- stuff. *SAMPLE (discussing DW's swing mechanics): "So something was off with David, but why? Well, some of it was probably D.W. himself - maybe his front shoulder really was flying open... Then again, Keith Hernandez seems to think everyone's front shoulder is always flying open. David Wright's is flying open, Daniel Murphy's shoulder is flying open, Fernando Martinez' shoulder is flying open, the hog dog vendor in the upper deck's shoulder is flying open, Sandy Alomar's front shoulder was flying open when he hands in the line-up card, Gary Cohen's front shoulder is opening up, my front shoulder is flying open, your front shoulder is flying open - everyone's front shoulder is flying open. Go ahead, check your front shoulder right now. It's probably already flown open during the time you took to read this."

metsmarathon Jan 06 2010 11:51 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

so i thought i'd take a look at hittrackeronline.com's home run data for each of the ballparks in 2009. i found that citi field allowed an average "true" home run distance of 400' (actual distance of 398.1'), with an average speed off the bat of 104.2 mph. the average home run distance at citi field ranks 14th among all parks, and the average speed off the bat ranks 10th. now, i would expect two things, if citi field is truly that difficult a place to hit home runs - one, that the average home run distance would have to be high, as there wouldn't be as many short home runs. and two, that the average speed off the bat would have to be high, as you'd have to crush the ball to get it out. the average speed may also be an indication of the quality of the batters and/or pitchers faced, or how well the ball carries in the park, or something else i'm not thinking of - its a big factor, and i'm unsuccessfully wrapping my mind around the implications... the average true distance in san francisco is also 400.4', but the average speed off the bat is only 102.8 mph. does that mean san francisco allows cheaper home runs, or just different home runs? probably the former. regardless, this hasty analysis shows that citifield is not necessarily unfair in the home runs it allows. right? in fact, the closest data point to citi field, is the metrodome, at 400.2' and 104.3 mph. and that's not a notoriously unfair place to hit, is it?

Ashie62 Jan 06 2010 11:53 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Benjamin Grimm wrote: metsmarathon wrote: but the solution to that problem is not changing the park, but changing the approach, and it amazes me to think that this is not the clearly most obvious answer. Exactly. I'm not necessarily opposed to eventually changing the ballpark configuration at some point; there's nothing wrong with a little tinkering as we get to know what the park is really like, but doing it now is, as others have said, too much of an overreaction based on a small sample size. Give it a few years. I may not have a few years...please lower the fences and can the alcove

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 06 2010 11:55 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Enjoying David Wright Shark Week.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 06 2010 12:04 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Enjoying David Wright Shark Week. Great, no? How do we recruit this guy without creeping him out?

attgig Jan 06 2010 03:36 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

added to my google reader. I'm enjoying it tons.

Nymr83 Jan 06 2010 05:22 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

NO. Its been one year, chill out and see how the park plays in the long-term.

Kong76 Jan 06 2010 08:01 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I took no, if there was a no way Jose I'd take that. I could see shortening some fence 3-4 years after next year, but let's see how things go. (largely skimmed thread and didn't read Klap for medical reasons)

batmagadanleadoff Jan 07 2010 12:02 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

A response to the Klapisch piece at the top of this thread, in the stlye of Fire Joe Morgan dot com: Sometimes I actually think people are a little too hard on Bob Klapisch. He at least thinks differently than his hordes of mainstream media columnist brethren, and sometimes he stumbles upon an interesting idea. And I think it’s become sort of a knee-jerk reaction among Mets fans to assume everything he’s written is bad and dumb and too harsh against the Mets without giving it a fair shake. Then he writes something like this. Holy crap, Bob Klapisch. First of all, this is completely pointless. If the Mets were going to move in the fences, they’d be working on it by now, and they most certainly wouldn’t have said yesterday that they decidedly weren’t moving in the fences. So this column is useless. Second, holy crap. I’m sorry but some things require the ol’ Fire Joe Morgan treatment. Here’s to heroes Ken Tremendous, dak and Junior. Bold words are Klapisch’s. Here we go: Whatever you think about the $66 million the Mets have invested in Jason Bay – whether it could’ve been better spent on John Lackey or tucked away for a run at next year’s elite crop of free agents – this much is irrefutable: Home runs have become the most critical currency at Citi Field. Is that irrefutable? I could refute that. Wait, I don’t know if I can. Hold on a second. I’m not entirely sure what you’re saying here, Bob Klapisch. Why are they the most critical currency? Because the Mets didn’t hit many? Other teams did. Other teams hit plenty. Everyone forgets that. It’s a ambitious change in philosophy, considering the Mets hit the fewest HRs in the National League last year. No, silly! It’s an ambitious change in philosophy. Plus, I’m not sure the Mets’ decision to hit the fewest home runs in the National League last year was a philosophical one. Actually, I’m pretty sure it had to do with everybody in the freaking lineup getting hurt. But whatever, let’s move on. With Bay coming off a 36-homer season in Boston, Mets now have the potential to rival the Phillies in sheer muscle. That is, if Carlos Beltran can stay healthy all year, if Carlos Delgado returns and David Wright finds his 2008 stroke. And we haven’t even mentioned Jeff Francoeur, who could bat as low as seventh in this power-laden lineup. Wow. And guess what? If the Carloses Beltran and Delgado were healthy all last year and David Wright had his 2008 stroke — even without Bay in the lineup — the Mets would not have hit the fewest home runs in the National League. They’d actually probably have landed somewhere right in the middle of the pack, and so your whole premise would be shot, and so no one would need to be writing columns about bringing in the fences at Citi Field. That’s the whole thing. But wait, here comes my favorite part: The Mets don’t appear to be close to any significant up grades [sic] in their starting rotation, so if they want to improve their run-differential why not maximize their HR quotient by reconfiguring the ballpark? Differential? Maximize? Quotient? Klapisch must be onto something smart here, right? Oh, wait. He’s just using big words to shroud the dumbest f@#$ing thing I’ve ever read. Reconfiguring the ballpark around the same crappy pitchers will not alter the home run quotient. Reconfiguring the ballpark will only make those pitchers allow more home runs. Yes, the Mets will hit more home runs, too, but they’ll be yielding more at the same time, since they’ll be playing in the same ballpark as the other team, no matter how it’s configured. Unless Klapisch has some plan in mind for a radical newfangled wall that changes heights between the tops and bottoms of innings, the home run quotient will stay exactly the same. And then, the kicker: According to ESPN.com’s park factors that were released Tuesday, Citi was the major leagues’ seventh-easiest place to hit a triple in 2009. Holy crap, sir. You found your way to ESPN.com’s park factors? While you were there, did you miss the part that showed Citi Field played as a slightly homer-friendly field in 2009? Or, worse, did you see it and think, “meh, it doesn’t really aid my point about how the Mets should move the fences in so they can hit more home runs like the Yankees and Phillies, so I’ll pretend I didn’t see it and cherry-pick this tidbit about the triples”? I’m done here. There’s more fodder for comedy, but I’m bored with it. Look: I don’t know the truth about whether Citi Field squashes home-run totals and I don’t purport to. I don’t think anybody does. It certainly looks big and it’s obviously earned that reputation. But there’s no evidence yet that it plays big, and everything we’ve learned so far says that it takes years to reach a definitive conclusion about a park’s effect on ballgames. It’s baffling how many people think otherwise. http://www.tedquarters.net/2010/01/06/h ... -klapisch/

Rockin' Doc Jan 07 2010 06:23 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I have no problem with the dimensions of Citi Field. I wouldn't mind bringing in the section of right field fence to get rid of that weird notch before someone gets hurt. Otherwise, I'm fine for leaving it as it is for another year or two. Then, if they want to mess with the fences, I would prefer to see them lower the height on some sections (RF Modells sign & CF in front of the apple). A fence that varies from 8-12 feet high would be fine with me.

attgig Jan 07 2010 07:27 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

get rid of that annoying RF thing and lower the fences for the highlight reel hr robbing grabs.

Edgy MD Jan 07 2010 07:43 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Forgive me, as I sympathetically reject the notch on the grounds of its artificial character, but how does the notch threaten people's health?

Fman99 Jan 07 2010 07:48 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

attgig wrote: and lower the fences for the highlight reel hr robbing grabs. This. Holy hell, does anyone who works for that team remember the Endy Chavez catch? "Wha?"

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 07 2010 08:08 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

He's not confused-- he's just surprised at how bitter the pennies taste today.

Vic Sage Jan 08 2010 12:39 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

i voted yes, but not to affect HRs. Having sat the season in the upper LF corner, i think moving in (and shortening) the fences would radically help the terribly obstructed views, which the team knowingly sacrificed for "intimacy". and speaking of intimacy, i'd like Jeffy and the architects to become intimate with each other, repeatedly, with no lubrication.

Nymr83 Jan 08 2010 05:53 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

i think moving in (and shortening) the fences would radically help the terribly obstructed views Thats an argument I can accept, but I don't trust the idiots who gave us obstructed views in the first place to make that determination. If someone independent could conduct a study and tell us that x% of obstructed seats would be better off if you moved the fences in to y dimensions I'd love to see that.

dgwphotography Jan 09 2010 07:07 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Nymr83 wrote: i think moving in (and shortening) the fences would radically help the terribly obstructed views Thats an argument I can accept, but I don't trust the idiots who gave us obstructed views in the first place to make that determination. If someone independent could conduct a study and tell us that x% of obstructed seats would be better off if you moved the fences in to y dimensions I'd love to see that. Actually, I think moving home plate up would help more with the obstructed views since the foul lines wouldn't be as deep into the corners... Personally, I think they should just make the walls one uniform height, get rid of that stupid alcove in right center, and leave everything else alone...

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 09 2010 09:37 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: Forgive me, as I sympathetically reject the notch on the grounds of its artificial character, but how does the notch threaten people's health? Irregular jutting that's a bit tougher to resolve in your periphery? I've seen a few LF/CF combos this past year-- home team included-- who seem to approach the edges of the wall recession with trepidation.

Nymr83 Jan 09 2010 12:32 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Forgive me, as I sympathetically reject the notch on the grounds of its artificial character, but how does the notch threaten people's health? Irregular jutting that's a bit tougher to resolve in your periphery? I've seen a few LF/CF combos this past year-- home team included-- who seem to approach the edges of the wall recession with trepidation. our guys, when we actually have the same guys playing out there all year, will learn it. let the road team fear it.

seawolf17 Jan 09 2010 01:50 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Nymr83 wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Forgive me, as I sympathetically reject the notch on the grounds of its artificial character, but how does the notch threaten people's health? Irregular jutting that's a bit tougher to resolve in your periphery? I've seen a few LF/CF combos this past year-- home team included-- who seem to approach the edges of the wall recession with trepidation. our guys, when we actually have the same guys playing out there all year, will learn it. let the road team fear it. I agree with this. I like the jutting; could be beneficial, I think. Too soon to overreact.

Ceetar Jan 11 2010 07:50 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I like the park, and while some of the obstructions in certain sections are just a tad too much, I like the quirks. Maybe it's too quirky for the sake of being quirky, but whatever. People criticque what's new, that's just standard practice. 10 years down the road it'll be what it'll be. Although I do recall the Mets saying they built the park to be able to move the fences 6feet in either direction, although I don't see how they could possibly move them out.. I think a lot of it was just a culture shock of change. Sure, some home runs blop off the walls for doubles (or triples if you've got Sheff out there) but we'll be used to that shortly. We talk about "That looked gone off the bat", but our minds are attune to Shea. A couple more years of watching and we'll judge that better too. As will the players. More data first please, before knee-jerk reactions to guys like Klapisch. Also, the fence height does generally create outs, even if it turns home runs into doubles. I think it creates a little more of a home field advantage in the outfield even, judging the ball height over your head to see if you should go back and try to make a play, or play it off the wall. visitors may see it so high and back up hoping it dies before the fence, whereas Bay will learn that that height will knock off the wall (in fact, given the Monster this is probably his default behavior anyway) and plays the bounce to gun the guy out at third.

Edgy MD Jan 11 2010 08:14 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I guess a spacious outfield does make a ballhawk like Endy a more valuable asset.

Edgy MD May 09 2010 10:35 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Bump.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 09 2010 12:25 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Walkoff home runs or no-- fences that preclude home run robbing suck.

Edgy MD May 10 2010 07:46 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Yes, but the offseason argument floated by more than one columnist was that Citifield and it's dimension, as a home park, has been and would remain a liability to the shortsighted team, when evidence so far suggests the opposite is true.

Ceetar May 10 2010 07:57 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: Yes, but the offseason argument floated by more than one columnist was that Citifield and it's dimension, as a home park, has been and would remain a liability to the shortsighted team, when evidence so far suggests the opposite is true. If that's true, it seems the Mets have adjusted, and it's become a nice 10th man that's intimidating the other teams. Although I think the Giants have learned that home runs do in fact happen.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 10 2010 10:01 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: Yes, but the offseason argument floated by more than one columnist was that Citifield and it's dimension, as a home park, has been and would remain a liability to the shortsighted team, when evidence so far suggests the opposite is true. Well, yes. Columnists... they say a lot of things.

Edgy MD Jun 24 2010 10:12 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Bob Klapisch: Wrong.

Fman99 Jun 24 2010 10:15 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: Bob Klapisch: Wrong. I think you got that backwards.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 24 2010 10:53 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

2010 HR's by Mets and Opponents at Citi Field: 46 games/60 HR's -------------1.30 per game 2010 HR's by Mets and Opponents in Met road games: 51 games/101 HR's -----------1.98 per game This season, Citi Field is reducing HR's by a whopping 33%.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 08 2010 12:54 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Here are your final tallies for 2010: Mets and opponent HR's at Citi Field: 110 HR's/81 games = 1.25/game Mets and opponent HR's in Met road games: 153 HR's/81 games = 1.89/game

Ashie62 Oct 08 2010 12:55 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Mr. Wilpon, "Tear down that wall."

Zvon Oct 08 2010 06:25 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Just lower the height of the walls in places, don't have to bring them in. I like the cut out area in right. That gives the stadium some individual character. But also have that wall lowered ( No more MODELLS sign, which they'll never do because of the ad revenue I guess, and also I don't know how they would make the seats workout there). This section of wall being too high is my least complaint. I'm sure some will say overall the big walls also add character to the stadium but I don't think so. Not in a positive way, at the current dimensions. I can see how the area in right could be cause for a serious injury to someone, someday, and I said that here before the stadium was even completed (it's the odd way the bullpen section comes out from the cutout that was my concern), but now, on the other side of the coin, I can see some great catches and singular type plays occurring there that would not happen anywhere else. (Maybe they should put bumpers out there in the cut out and lights that flash when the ball hits em and bounces off at some wacky angle, like a pinball machine. Ha, I kid and destroy all credibility anyone would have given this post.)

metsmarathon Oct 08 2010 07:02 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

pinball alley. it was my idea first. damned mets just stoled it. also, is it worth noting that met batters hit 63 homers at home versus 65 on the road, and have a higher ops at home?

themetfairy Oct 08 2010 07:07 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metsmarathon wrote: pinball alley. it was my idea first. damned mets just stoled it. also, is it worth noting that met batters hit 63 homers at home versus 65 on the road, and have a higher ops at home? Totally not worth noting. Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

Zvon Oct 08 2010 09:35 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Did anyone see what Jeff W said a few days ago? [Jeff Wilpon on Citi Field]-- The ownership group will at least discuss changing the dimensions of Citi Field, if the new general manager is interested. The ballpark is cavernous, with high outfield walls. Wilpon mentioned reducing the size of the walls as one option. “We tailored it to what the old GM and the baseball department wanted,” Wilpon said. “There’s some things we can do.” So Omar (the old GM,lol) is now being blamed for the way Citi Field is laid out? Ownership had no say in Citi Fields final design? Jeff, at least you can make me laugh after this season. That's gotta be good for something.

Fman99 Oct 09 2010 05:23 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

If the Wilpons really wanted to build some goodwill with the fans they'd have fired Perez and Castillo too.

Edgy MD Oct 09 2010 06:52 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

That's quite the non-sequiter in the outfield fences thread.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 09 2010 07:15 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I still want my home run robbing.

metirish Oct 09 2010 07:17 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Zvon wrote: Did anyone see what Jeff W said a few days ago? [Jeff Wilpon on Citi Field]-- The ownership group will at least discuss changing the dimensions of Citi Field, if the new general manager is interested. The ballpark is cavernous, with high outfield walls. Wilpon mentioned reducing the size of the walls as one option. “We tailored it to what the old GM and the baseball department wanted,” Wilpon said. “There’s some things we can do.” So Omar (the old GM,lol) is now being blamed for the way Citi Field is laid out? Ownership had no say in Citi Fields final design? Jeff, at least you can make me laugh after this season. That's gotta be good for something. That's just funny , Omar the architect.

Fman99 Oct 09 2010 11:17 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: That's quite the non-sequiter in the outfield fences thread. Aye.

Edgy MD Nov 14 2010 08:09 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

="The Daily News"]One day after Twins star Justin Morneau called for the fences to be moved in at Minnesota's Target Field, Wright also reiterated his frustration with the dimensions of Citi Field despite his rebound from a career-low 10 homers in'09 to 29 last season. "I don't think there's any question that it affects your thought process and your swing," Wright said. "I've kind of learned firsthand that you're just not going to hit very many opposite-field home runs at Citi. ... But you just have to deal with it, you have to know the opposing team is going to have to deal with it, and really move on. If they change it, they change it."

metirish Nov 14 2010 08:14 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I'll never mistake you for Piazza that's for sure David....stfu and hit bitch.

G-Fafif Nov 14 2010 10:01 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Seeing as how David generally opines that most things are peachy keen, this strikes me as a cry for help.

Edgy MD Nov 15 2010 05:10 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I also think Howard Johnson's been an enabler, trying to help him adjust to he new situation. I mean, the guy was hitting what? About eight homers to right center per season at Shea? How much damage can Citi really do? Two or three of those homers still go out, two or three become outs, and two or three become doubles. Is that worth screwing up your swing over? Because the acknowledgment that he's knowingly screwed up his swing is the real story here.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 15 2010 08:11 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: I also think Howard Johnson's been an enabler, trying to help him adjust to he new situation. I mean, the guy was hitting what? About eight homers to right center per season at Shea? How much damage can Citi really do? Two or three of those homers still go out, two or three become outs, and two or three become doubles. Is that worth screwing up your swing over? Because the acknowledgment that he's knowingly screwed up his swing is the real story here. But it wasn't simply losing two HR's; Wright hit 10 in '09. And how many of Wright's can of corns over the last two years were the result of simply trying to compensate or adjust to Citi Field? Only Wright would know, if anyone. I hope the Mets move the fences in because I have a personal theory that it's extremely difficult to build a winner in a stadium that takes HR's away in every part of the field -- left, center and right.

dgwphotography Nov 15 2010 08:16 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

They should just replicate the Shea dimensions where possible, and just be done with it.

Ceetar Nov 15 2010 08:18 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

dgwphotography wrote: They should just replicate the Shea dimensions where possible, and just be done with it. If they had built Citi with Shea dimensions, people would still be calling for them to reduce/adjust them.

Frayed Knot Nov 15 2010 08:20 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I hope the Mets move the fences in because I have a personal theory that it's extremely difficult to build a winner in a stadium that takes HR's away in every part of the field -- left, center and right. As opposed to those theories I seem to hear all the time about how a team in a hitter's environment can't win -- a theory which obviously took a hit after the Phils won the WS.

Ceetar Nov 15 2010 08:24 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Frayed Knot wrote: I hope the Mets move the fences in because I have a personal theory that it's extremely difficult to build a winner in a stadium that takes HR's away in every part of the field -- left, center and right. As opposed to those theories I seem to hear all the time about how a team in a hitter's environment can't win -- a theory which obviously took a hit after the Phils won the WS. Look at the Mets record at Citi Field, specifically before Manuel completely lost the team late in the season, and it suggests that if anything the _opposition_ finds Citi Field extremely imposing and scary. Now imagine that the Mets actually compete to their level of talent or above, and we're into it as fans, and in addition to whatever scares the Goose Egg Phillies, you've got 40k screaming fans.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 15 2010 08:26 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Frayed Knot wrote: I hope the Mets move the fences in because I have a personal theory that it's extremely difficult to build a winner in a stadium that takes HR's away in every part of the field -- left, center and right. As opposed to those theories I seem to hear all the time about how a team in a hitter's environment can't win -- a theory which obviously took a hit after the Phils won the WS. You think i'm done with you over in that CPF rankings thread? I'm not.

Frayed Knot Nov 15 2010 08:30 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: I hope the Mets move the fences in because I have a personal theory that it's extremely difficult to build a winner in a stadium that takes HR's away in every part of the field -- left, center and right. As opposed to those theories I seem to hear all the time about how a team in a hitter's environment can't win -- a theory which obviously took a hit after the Phils won the WS. You think i'm done with you over in that CPF rankings thread? I'm not. I'll take non-sequiturs for $200 Alex.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 15 2010 08:32 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Frayed Knot wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: I hope the Mets move the fences in because I have a personal theory that it's extremely difficult to build a winner in a stadium that takes HR's away in every part of the field -- left, center and right. As opposed to those theories I seem to hear all the time about how a team in a hitter's environment can't win -- a theory which obviously took a hit after the Phils won the WS. You think i'm done with you over in that CPF rankings thread? I'm not. I'll take non-sequiturs for $200 Alex. When was the last time you saw Wayne Hagin?

batmagadanleadoff Nov 15 2010 08:37 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ceetar wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: I hope the Mets move the fences in because I have a personal theory that it's extremely difficult to build a winner in a stadium that takes HR's away in every part of the field -- left, center and right. As opposed to those theories I seem to hear all the time about how a team in a hitter's environment can't win -- a theory which obviously took a hit after the Phils won the WS. Look at the Mets record at Citi Field, specifically before Manuel completely lost the team late in the season, and it suggests that if anything the _opposition_ finds Citi Field extremely imposing and scary. Now imagine that the Mets actually compete to their level of talent or above, and we're into it as fans, and in addition to whatever scares the Goose Egg Phillies, you've got 40k screaming fans. But the Mets were getting killed on the road.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 15 2010 08:41 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I also think Howard Johnson's been an enabler, trying to help him adjust to he new situation. I mean, the guy was hitting what? About eight homers to right center per season at Shea? How much damage can Citi really do? Two or three of those homers still go out, two or three become outs, and two or three become doubles. Is that worth screwing up your swing over? Because the acknowledgment that he's knowingly screwed up his swing is the real story here. But it wasn't simply losing two HR's; Wright hit 10 in '09. And how many of Wright's can of corns over the last two years were the result of simply trying to compensate or adjust to Citi Field? Only Wright would know, if anyone. I hope the Mets move the fences in because I have a personal theory that it's extremely difficult to build a winner in a stadium that takes HR's away in every part of the field -- left, center and right. I left out that Edgy's post assumes that the distribution of all of Wright's batted balls (location/distance/speed of ball) essentially was unchanged after the Mets moved to Citi. But Wright likely altered his swing to compensate for the dramatic differences in the dimensions of Shea and Citi, thus changing Wright's distribution of batted balls.

dgwphotography Nov 15 2010 08:47 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ceetar wrote: dgwphotography wrote: They should just replicate the Shea dimensions where possible, and just be done with it. If they had built Citi with Shea dimensions, people would still be calling for them to reduce/adjust them. I problem is that they have all of these stupid nooks and crannies for no reason. Make it a fair park like Shea for both sides of the plate.

metirish Nov 15 2010 08:51 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

dgwphotography wrote: They should just replicate the Shea dimensions where possible, and just be done with it. Makes far too much sense.....it will never be done.....I agree though...

batmagadanleadoff Nov 15 2010 09:02 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metirish wrote: dgwphotography wrote: They should just replicate the Shea dimensions where possible, and just be done with it. Makes far too much sense.....it will never be done.....I agree though... Put me down on the agree list. That the Mets have a David Wright, a perennial all-star and MVP candidate, an all around good guy, the centerpiece of the franchise, and that they build a new stadium with dimensions so cavernous that Wright would have to practically re-invent his swing is something only the dumb Mets would do.

Ceetar Nov 15 2010 09:07 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I don't think the dimensions are "so cavernous" and I think Wright reinventing his swing (another black mark for Hojo here as well) was part of the problem in 2009. If he'd acted normal, he still would've driven the ball out to left, and would've hit the gap in RF a lot for doubles and triples, as well as the ocassional home run when he put a good swing on it. The problem is that he pysched himself out a lot. He hit some towering flies that the wind kept in the park. I remember one he absolutely crushed, but it wasn't his typical line drive swing, he uppercutted it and despite looking like it could've left the building, the wind held it in. Nobody talks about teh wind as much except for those swirling april days, but the park is shorter and i suspect when you hit it high enough, the wind plays a bigger role.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 15 2010 09:09 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Sounds like you should be the batting coach.

Edgy MD Nov 15 2010 09:09 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I also think Howard Johnson's been an enabler, trying to help him adjust to he new situation. I mean, the guy was hitting what? About eight homers to right center per season at Shea? How much damage can Citi really do? Two or three of those homers still go out, two or three become outs, and two or three become doubles. Is that worth screwing up your swing over? Because the acknowledgment that he's knowingly screwed up his swing is the real story here. But it wasn't simply losing two HR's; Wright hit 10 in '09. And how many of Wright's can of corns over the last two years were the result of simply trying to compensate or adjust to Citi Field? Only Wright would know, if anyone. I didn't say he simply lost two homers. And I did make clear that my position is that he shouldn't try to compensate, and that the real damage to his performance isn't done by the dimensions, but by trying to compensate for them.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 15 2010 09:10 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

New avatar? (Just wait'll you get to my revised post! Hah.)

Edgy MD Nov 15 2010 09:12 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: I left out that Edgy's post assumes that the distribution of all of Wright's batted balls (location/distance/speed of ball) essentially was unchanged after the Mets moved to Citi. But Wright likely altered his swing to compensate for the dramatic differences in the dimensions of Shea and Citi, thus changing Wright's distribution of batted balls. No, no it doesn't. It assumes very clearly that he has made alterations. The numbers in the first paragraph represent what the damage might look like if it was due to the dimensions alone.

metsmarathon Nov 15 2010 09:26 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

well, he didn't really need to reinvent his swing did he? had he maintained the same exact approach, he would've seen a slight dip in his overall production. instead, he attempted to revamp his approach to try to hit more home runs, or merely to retain his prior home run rate, with the assumption that it would have no negative consequences on any other aspect of his offensive production. this is an especially bad thing for him to have done since one could assume that david's prior approach was nearly optimal given his abilities. i mean, the guy was consistently one of the five or ten most productive hitters in the league. that's pretty optimal. and by changing it to favor one aspect, it clearly affected the rest of his game. its almost too predictable an outcome, really. i don't fault citifield with making david wright a shitty player in '09 and a flawed yet recovering player in '10. i blame david. and also the coaching and support staff for fostering and/or allowing it. imo, the nature of the park was fairly well suited to david to begin with. the guy hits a lot of home runs, but not too many of them are towering drives like ike hits. so if he does lose home runs, he's more likely to see them turn in to extra base hits than outs, as there's less time for outfielders to chase down the liners in the gaps than towering fly balls in the gaps. the wall height hurts, sure, but that becomes an opportunity still. caroms lead to doubles and triples. which leads to more runs scored. it only hurts hte home run totals. again, if david only sees his offensive value in terms of home run numbers, that's his fault, not the stadium's. i like nooks and crannies. i wish they had worked them in more organically, but on the whole i'm fine with it. the baseball stadium lacking arbitrary dimensions is truly rare. really, i think fenway is about the only one, or the only one left standing. every other facet and feature of a stadium is there because someone arbitrarily decided it would either be more interesting (or just cheaper to build) that way.

Edgy MD Nov 15 2010 09:29 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

So ceetar, marathon, and I are together on this. New dimensions are not so damaging as new dimension paranoia.

Ceetar Nov 15 2010 09:34 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I'd like the new coaching staff to come out and start with reminding everyone that the walls ARE high and to take nothing for granted. That they, especially the quicker guys like Beltran and Wright, should be thinking triple on every towering fly ball. And that the outfielders should do the same, and work on gunning guys out at third, or even second if they prematurely break into home run trots.

metsmarathon Nov 15 2010 09:41 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

let the other team freak out about how hard it is to knock the ball out of citifield while our guys rack up double after triple after double. unless it's chase utley, who seems really ok with citi's dimensions.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 15 2010 11:10 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metsmarathon wrote: i like nooks and crannies. i wish they had worked them in more organically, but on the whole i'm fine with it. the baseball stadium lacking arbitrary dimensions is truly rare. really, i think fenway is about the only one, or the only one left standing. every other facet and feature of a stadium is there because someone arbitrarily decided it would either be more interesting (or just cheaper to build) that way. Well, yeah... but that's because they were all designed by HOK/Populous over a 15-year-span, and directed by people who hang in the same packs and tend toward aesthetic copycatting (hell, just look at how they run the clubs otherwise). Quirks and whimsy can be very cool. But if they're just tacked on for the hell of it, then they're more affectation than charming characteristic. It all ends up feeling as if an old friend of yours gets a makeover, and, in addition to the clothing/hair changes, he suddenly starts talking with a British accent, or walking around with a python draped over his shoulders. By now, I'm used to Citi's juts-n'-stuff, or most of the way there, at least. But still... if the best one can say about it is that it's just as phony as the rest of 'em... And I still want my home-run-robbing catches, dammit.

Ceetar Nov 15 2010 11:49 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

You can still get home run robbing catches in CF. and by the poles, which is harder.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 15 2010 03:10 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I already miss the symetrically dimensioned parks. These new parks look all the same with their contrived differences.

Ashie62 Nov 16 2010 06:59 AM The Wall is too damn far

At least David Wright feels so. [url]http://bleacherreport.com/articles/518721-citi-field-needs-a-serious-face-lift-and-new-york-mets-david-wright-agrees

Edgy MD Nov 16 2010 07:06 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Merged.

Ceetar Nov 16 2010 07:13 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Well of course David Wright wishes the fences were 320 feet. Do you think Santana wants them moved in? Do you think Jimmy Rollins wants Citi's fences moved in?

metsmarathon Nov 16 2010 07:34 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

see, that's the thing. i don't care about seeing the 2011 mets reach their home run potential. i care much more about them reaching their win potential. and i think that a home offense that isn't afraid to hit in the big bad scary park combined with a pitching staff that gains confidence from its imposing dimensions is a good thing and a goal that the team should have. let other hitters come to our park and think they can't get shit done. let them press and change their approach. i must say, though, that i do like home run robbing catches. if the fences were lower in center and right, i wouldn't mind it too much. but do we really need to bring them in ten feet to do that? i think the mo's zone is fine. lame name, but i like it. if they modify the walls and fences, i hope the essence of the zone remains.

Ceetar Nov 16 2010 07:42 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metsmarathon wrote: i think the mo's zone is fine. lame name, but i like it. if they modify the walls and fences, i hope the essence of the zone remains. Everyone would've built Citi Field differently. Because it's so new we find ourselves second-guessing the Mets opinion on what it should be and look like. I wonder if people in 1964 questioned Shea? or even the name Mets? I bet there were people that wanted them to be called the Dodgers, or the Atlantics or something.

Centerfield Nov 16 2010 07:43 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

dgwphotography wrote: They should just replicate the Shea dimensions where possible, and just be done with it. I vote to add DGW to the Alderson-DePodesta-Ricciardi group.

Edgy MD Nov 16 2010 07:48 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ceetar wrote: metsmarathon wrote: i think the mo's zone is fine. lame name, but i like it. if they modify the walls and fences, i hope the essence of the zone remains. Everyone would've built Citi Field differently. Because it's so new we find ourselves second-guessing the Mets opinion on what it should be and look like. I wonder if people in 1964 questioned Shea? or even the name Mets? I bet there were people that wanted them to be called the Dodgers, or the Atlantics or something. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if the walls were shifted to Shea's dimensions tomorrow, few would consider it done with. Though, on the other matter, I think "Dodgers" was taken.

Ceetar Nov 16 2010 07:56 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: metsmarathon wrote: i think the mo's zone is fine. lame name, but i like it. if they modify the walls and fences, i hope the essence of the zone remains. Everyone would've built Citi Field differently. Because it's so new we find ourselves second-guessing the Mets opinion on what it should be and look like. I wonder if people in 1964 questioned Shea? or even the name Mets? I bet there were people that wanted them to be called the Dodgers, or the Atlantics or something. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if the walls were shifted to Shea's dimensions tomorrow, few would consider it done with. Though, on the other matter, I think "Dodgers" was taken. could've called them the Brooklyn Dodgers of Queens. oh fine.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 16 2010 08:45 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metsmarathon wrote: well, he didn't really need to reinvent his swing did he? Oh c'mon. Citi Field probably fucked up Jason Bay's season as well. (Before the concussion did). I'd bet anything that Bay hates Citi Field as much as David Wright ever did and that he's being mum on the topic only because he's the new guy and he has enough self-awareness to realize that complaining won't garner him any sympathy.

metsmarathon Nov 16 2010 09:20 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

did i say that citi field was not a factor in david wright's 2009 (or jason bay's 2010)? no. if david wright maintained his approach and hit the exact same pitches in 2009 as he hit in 2008 and hit them the exact same way, his home runs would have declined a bit, and his other extra bases would have increased. would the total number of extra base hits have been maintained? i dunno. it would have been close. but he saw a bigger park and changed his approach to something far less optimal. had he maintained the same approach, he would've been fine. based on his spray chart, it looks like he just stopped trying to pull the ball with power, and started hitting the ball the other way. bay is a little harder to figure. he seems to have also let up on pulling the ball, particularly down the line, and has more balls up the middle and some the other way, i think. he gets his hits primarily on pulling the ball, and it looks like he really only pops the ball up hte other way. sometimes he gets a hold of it and it goes out, but usually, if the ball was going to right field in '09, it was for an out. conversely, he has a ton of doubles and singles up the line that he probably yanked over third, and dropped in fiar territory or banged off the wall. if you look at his spray chart in '10, he's got nothing over near the acela club, almost like he didn't want to break any windows or disrupt anybody's dinner. citi field didn't tamp down his production. he did. he could've peppered that part of the field with singles, doubles, and homers, but he aimed for the left field gap instead. and the gap in right as well. had he maintained the same approach in boston, he probably would've been just fine, unless there was something physically wrong with him this year. if it was just the park's doing, you would see similar spray patterns between the years, but there would be a lot more outs in the deep recesses of the outfield where preiviously, you would see homers.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 16 2010 09:28 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

What's your source for the "spray charts"? Thanks.

metsmarathon Nov 16 2010 09:29 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

mlb.com

Ashie62 Nov 17 2010 06:34 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Wright hates it, Bay hates it and so do I.

Edgy MD Nov 17 2010 08:01 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Even accepting the inference of their comments as "hate," wouldn't you expect around 100% of batters to want their outfield walls closer and 100% of pitchers to want them further away?

batmagadanleadoff Jun 01 2011 09:19 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

2011 Total HR's hit at Citi Field (Mets and Mets' opponents) - 43 HR's/27 games Total HR's hit; all Mets road games (Mets and Mets' opponents) - 53 Hr's/27 games 2009-2011 Total HR's hit at Citi Field (Mets and Mets' opponents) - 283 HR's/189 games Total HR's hit; all Mets road games (Mets and Mets' opponents) - 323 HR's/189 games

metsmarathon Jun 01 2011 09:42 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

gee. you'd think it would be possible to look at those 61 homers that were his at shea in its first 32 games of 2008 and determine whether or not they would have cleared the fences of citi field (wind and weather and what not all being equal), and likewise for the citi homers versus shea, to determine/infer just how many home runs, approximately, the field is robbing us of. also, fuck, man. our offense is shit this year, home or away. especially without wright, davis, and pagan for extended stretches, and jason bay who probably couldn't hit a home run in a little league field. that should inherently depress the numbers a bit, shouldn't it?

batmagadanleadoff Jun 01 2011 09:50 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jun 01 2011 10:09 AM

metsmarathon wrote: gee. you'd think it would be possible to look at those 61 homers that were his at shea in its first 32 games of 2008 and determine whether or not they would have cleared the fences of citi field (wind and weather and what not all being equal), and likewise for the citi homers versus shea, to determine/infer just how many home runs, approximately, the field is robbing us of. As the sample size grows (currently at 2 1/3 seasons) you should be able to determine Citi Field's HR effect by simply looking at the totals (323 road, 283 home) -- idiosyncracies about specific HR's clearing that stadium but not this one should smooth out. metsmarathon wrote: also, fuck, man. our offense is shit this year, home or away. especially without wright, davis, and pagan for extended stretches, and jason bay who probably couldn't hit a home run in a little league field. that should inherently depress the numbers a bit, shouldn't it? This shouldn't effect the data. If the Mets offense sucks, then it should suck (HR-wise) both on the road and at home. It's the same team, road and home.

HahnSolo Jun 01 2011 09:56 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Thanks for the chartwork. What is interesting to me in the comparison to CBP is that CBP is relatively symmetrical, while appearing rather asymmetrical to the naked eye, if that makes any sense. Watching a game from Philly, the field looks non-cookie-cutter when in fact there aren't too many cut outs, MO zones, etc. Meaning I guess you don't need multiple wall heights and fences jutting in and out every 10 feet to give the park some "quirks". By chance do you have a chart comparison of Citi to NYS?

batmagadanleadoff Jun 01 2011 09:57 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 01 2011 10:00 AM

I assume that the thinner black line represents the warning track edge.

Ceetar Jun 01 2011 09:59 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

HahnSolo wrote: Meaning I guess you don't need multiple wall heights and fences jutting in and out every 10 feet to give the park some "quirks". By chance do you have a chart comparison of Citi to NYS? I know you get this in many parks where the LF stands just end, but that vertical wall at CBP in left center always annoys me. 2 inches to the left it's off the wall, 2 inches the other way it's way over the fence.

HahnSolo Jun 01 2011 10:00 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Thank you. I was hoping to see how big of a contrast there is in RF. between the two. The Teixeira HR off Dickey in NYS basically wouldn't have reached the warning track in Citi. Wow.

metsmarathon Jun 01 2011 11:10 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: metsmarathon wrote: gee. you'd think it would be possible to look at those 61 homers that were his at shea in its first 32 games of 2008 and determine whether or not they would have cleared the fences of citi field (wind and weather and what not all being equal), and likewise for the citi homers versus shea, to determine/infer just how many home runs, approximately, the field is robbing us of. As the sample size grows (currently at 2 1/3 seasons) you should be able to determine Citi Field's HR effect by simply looking at the totals (323 road, 283 home) -- idiosyncracies about specific HR's clearing that stadium but not this one should smooth out. metsmarathon wrote: also, fuck, man. our offense is shit this year, home or away. especially without wright, davis, and pagan for extended stretches, and jason bay who probably couldn't hit a home run in a little league field. that should inherently depress the numbers a bit, shouldn't it? This shouldn't effect the data. If the Mets offense sucks, then it should suck (HR-wise) both on the road and at home. It's the same team, road and home. sorry, i was focusing more on the shea vs citi thing at the bottom. the stadium to date data suggests that cit field depresses home run rates by 13ish percent. that's a big number, i suppose, but really, it means that a hitter who would have hit, say, 36 homers in a fair environment would hit 34 homers playing half his games in an unfair environemnt such as ours. 36 homers, 18 at home. 18 - (18x13%) = 18 - 2.34 = 2ish. 2-3 homers we should expect citifield to be robbing power hitters of, based on the home/road comparison. fuck you jason bay, and fuck you too david wright, for letting this stadium get inside your fucking head so. damned. much. the reason i'd like to look at the would they clear the fence thing is to strip from the discussion the mental games the stadium seems to play with players, especially our own. i'm sure i could independently investigate it; i'm just surprised that with all of the hullabaloo, nobody has.

TransMonk Jun 01 2011 11:23 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metsmarathon wrote: fuck you jason bay, and fuck you too david wright, for letting this stadium get inside your fucking head so. damned. much. I tend to fall on this side of the fence.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 01 2011 12:11 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

TransMonk wrote: metsmarathon wrote: fuck you jason bay, and fuck you too david wright, for letting this stadium get inside your fucking head so. damned. much. I tend to fall on this side of the fence. Same. Say what you will about the field-- it didn't make David Wright change his fitness regimen/swing/plate approach. Both he and Bay are different hitters, and that's why they're producing the kind of numbers they are. I want the walls to get cut in half, though. When Beltran went up to almost bring back the Teixeira shot, I felt almost palpable pangs of nostalgia. It's odd that for our higher ticket price, we lose that particular entertainment option when we watch a game at CitiField, as compared to virtually ANY other stadium in the league.

Ceetar Jun 01 2011 12:21 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I keep meaning to attempt to photoshop it, but I think it'd be interesting if they literally just extended the RF seats down to the ground and put up a short, 5 foot clear fence in front of it. the front rows would be basically 'field level' which would be kind of cool. The draw back would be the Pepsi Porch would nolonger be an overhang, although the actual overhang is rather disappointingly small to me. But you could perhaps extend it out a wee bit (not lower just more forward) and put in a standing area in the front of it. One day when the Mets actually sell SRO tickets (you know, when they make the playoffs and are looking for a way to get an extra 3k people into the park) it'll be a fun place to stand.

dgwphotography Jun 01 2011 12:33 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

They want a Mo Zone? fine - make the dimensions similar to Shea (is there an echo in here?) have cut outs through the outfield wall where the Mo zone could be an even larger area along the rightfield fence. The view would be similar to the view from under the bleachers at Shea - which was a pretty cool view. They could even make it some kind of club - Rusty's Corner, or the Strawberry Patch - something like that.

metsmarathon Jun 01 2011 12:48 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

wtf is the mo zone anyways?

metsmarathon Jun 01 2011 12:51 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

oh. this. meh.

metsguyinmichigan Jun 01 2011 01:56 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

1) The new Yankee Stadium is ugly, even in outline form. 2) I thought the Citi Field fences were WAY deeper than Shea's, but those great graphics show its not the case. 3) I think they're too high. I like Endy-type catches. 4) Derek Jeter sucks.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 01 2011 04:26 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metsmarathon wrote: metsmarathon wrote: gee. you'd think it would be possible to look at those 61 homers that were his at shea in its first 32 games of 2008 and determine whether or not they would have cleared the fences of citi field (wind and weather and what not all being equal), and likewise for the citi homers versus shea, to determine/infer just how many home runs, approximately, the field is robbing us of. As the sample size grows (currently at 2 1/3 seasons) you should be able to determine Citi Field's HR effect by simply looking at the totals (323 road, 283 home) -- idiosyncracies about specific HR's clearing that stadium but not this one should smooth out. metsmarathon wrote: also, fuck, man. our offense is shit this year, home or away. especially without wright, davis, and pagan for extended stretches, and jason bay who probably couldn't hit a home run in a little league field. that should inherently depress the numbers a bit, shouldn't it? This shouldn't effect the data. If the Mets offense sucks, then it should suck (HR-wise) both on the road and at home. It's the same team, road and home. sorry, i was focusing more on the shea vs citi thing at the bottom. the stadium to date data suggests that cit field depresses home run rates by 13ish percent. that's a big number, i suppose, but really, it means that a hitter who would have hit, say, 36 homers in a fair environment would hit 34 homers playing half his games in an unfair environemnt such as ours. 36 homers, 18 at home. 18 - (18x13%) = 18 - 2.34 = 2ish. 2-3 homers we should expect citifield to be robbing power hitters of, based on the home/road comparison. fuck you jason bay, and fuck you too david wright, for letting this stadium get inside your fucking head so. damned. much. the reason i'd like to look at the would they clear the fence thing is to strip from the discussion the mental games the stadium seems to play with players, especially our own. i'm sure i could independently investigate it; i'm just surprised that with all of the hullabaloo, nobody has. I don't see it your way. First of all, I think that CF reduces HR's to a greater degree than what the 2009-2111 number would indicate. I think that so far, the numbers are skewed to mask the full negative impact of CF on HR's because of a favorable but atypical 2009 season ratio when slightly more HR's were hit at CF compared to Mets road games. But only time will tell. But even assuming that your 13% drop-off rate is where it's at, it's simplistic to then conclude that every player is affected equally at the rate of 13%. Every player is affected differently. Generally, the players who hit the ball for less average distance will be not be affected as much as those who hit the ball longer. Thus, Mike Pelfrey and Ruben Tejada and Josh Thole, among many others, might only be affected minimally, if at all, while Bay and Wright might be severely affected. And any player who has a strong tendency to hit fly balls precisely in between the CF walls and where Shea's walls would've stood would be among those affected dramatically. This last category would obviously include your HR hitters, who tend to hit the ball farther. Beyond the numbers, though, I would guess that it takes very little for CF to mess with a HR hitter's swing. Maybe, it might not take more than just one discouraging AB where a Bay or a Wright unleashes a perfectly savage swing, crushing a pitch to the opposite field only to see the ball die in the outfielder's glove, 410 feet away. Players care about their stats more than anything else. Winning is not at the top of their hierarchies. Making money is their top priority. Hardly anyone gets to be Yogi Berra, an all-time talent with enough WS rings that he needs more than one hand to wear them all. They're trained enough to say otherwise but I'd say that every single player, if given the choice between signing that contract that'll ensure that they can live a King till the day they die or being a marginal player, on the fringes and always struggling to remain on the roster of a perennial championship team will almost always choose the former. And they can't get that contract without the all-star stats. And it's the HR hitters who are most often in position to nail that big payday. And if they have it in their head that they need to keep up their established HR rate to get that next contract, they just might tinker with their swing to do so. Bay, of course, already signed what is sure to be his last big contract, so this financial angle doesn't apply to him as much as it might to Wright, who surely envisions at least one more monster contract.

metsmarathon Jun 09 2011 08:12 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

from 2001 to 2008, shea stadium had an average park effect on homers of 0.870, based on the data on espn.com. this includes 2006 where shea had a jaw-droppingly low park factor of 0.575. excluding this from the data, shea had a park factor of 0.912. from 2009 until present, citi field has an aveage park effect on homers of 0.861, based on the same espn data. if you wish to discount the 2009 season wherein the park had a positive effect on homers to the tune of 1.057, this figure drops to 0.763. i don't know why you'd drop 40% of your data just because it doesn't agree with your preconceived notions, but whatever. if we're dropping data because it conflicts with our preconceived notions, then i suggest we also toss out shea's 2008 park effect of 1.081, which was likely inflated by citi's affect on the natural wind patterns. doing that, shea's average home run park effect is 0.884. oddly, (0.884-0.763)/0.884 = 13.68% i still come back to the notion that i want to look at the paths that batted balls took off of jason bay's bat in 2009 and compare them to the fences of citi field, to see just how many balls he should have expected to lose to the park. i'd like to also do the same to david wright's 2008. well, more correctly, i'd like for someone to do it for me. and then i'd like to tell them both to fuck off to hell for letting the goddamned fences un-make their careers over maybe four home runs each, at least half of which would probably still go for doubles.

Ceetar Jun 09 2011 08:29 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metsmarathon wrote: i still come back to the notion that i want to look at the paths that batted balls took off of jason bay's bat in 2009 and compare them to the fences of citi field, to see just how many balls he should have expected to lose to the park. i'd like to also do the same to david wright's 2008. well, more correctly, i'd like for someone to do it for me. and then i'd like to tell them both to fuck off to hell for letting the goddamned fences un-make their careers over maybe four home runs each, at least half of which would probably still go for doubles. Well, supposedly the Mets did this, and determined that Bays swing/flies would translate well.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2011 09:44 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metsmarathon wrote: if we're dropping data because it conflicts with our preconceived notions, then i suggest we also toss out shea's 2008 park effect of 1.081, which was likely inflated by citi's affect on the natural wind patterns. doing that, shea's average home run park effect is 0.884. I don't know what you mean when you write that I was "dropping data". I simply theorized that over time, it will be shown that Citi Field reduces HR's by a rate that's greater than the present rate. I believe that the 2009 splits are atypical. It'll take several more seasons to determine whether or not I'm in the ballpark. This doesn't mean that I "dropped" or ignored anything. Besides, I couldn't have ignored data even if I wanted to because I didn't make any conclusions base on ignored or selective data. metsmarathon wrote: from 2001 to 2008, shea stadium had an average park effect on homers of 0.870, based on the data on espn.com. this includes 2006 where shea had a jaw-droppingly low park factor of 0.575..... from 2009 until present, citi field has an aveage park effect on homers of 0.861, based on the same espn data. I worked out the numbers for myself, and got markedly different results. I couldn't find the team splits for the 2001 season, but I used the data for every season from 2002 to the present. If you provide me with 2001 splits, I'll try and add them to the table below. SEASON METS' ROAD GAMES/HR’S METS' HOME GAMES/HR’S 2002 80/161 81/162 2003 81/160 80/132 2004 81/189 81/152 2005 81/164 81/146 2006 81/202 81/178 2007 81/180 81/162 2008 81/161 81/174 2009 81/123 81/130 2010 81/153 81/110 2011 29/55 32/49 Here are the totals: 2002-2008 Road 566 games/1,217 HR's Home 566 games/1,106 HR's 2009-present Road 191 games/331 HR's Home 194 games/289 HR's The Shea era data (2002-08) works out nicely in that the Mets played the same amount of home and road games (566). Therefore, I prorated the Citi Field era data to 566 home and road games, for an easy visual comparison: 2009-present (prorated to 566 games) Road 566 games/981 HR's Home 566 games/843HR's According to these numbers, Shea reduced HR's by 9%; Citi reduces HR's by 14% --- a difference of more than 50%

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2011 10:49 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Here's the ratio of Mets/opponents HR's at Mets home games over Mets/opponents Hr's at Mets road games -- 2002-2008. A ratio of 1.00 indicates that the home and road HR rates for that season are identical; less than 1 indicates that the HR rate was greater on the road; more than 1 indicates that the HR rate was greater at home. 2010 0.719 2004 0.804 2011 0.807 2003 0.835 2006 0.881 2007 0.884 2005 0.890 2002 0.994 2009 1.057 2008 1.081

metsmarathon Jun 09 2011 11:28 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: if we're dropping data because it conflicts with our preconceived notions, then i suggest we also toss out shea's 2008 park effect of 1.081, which was likely inflated by citi's affect on the natural wind patterns. doing that, shea's average home run park effect is 0.884. I don't know what you mean when you write that I was "dropping data". i merely offered the opportunity. According to these numbers, Shea reduced HR's by 9%; Citi reduces HR's by 14% --- a difference of more than 50% (0.91-0.86)/0.91 = 0.054 = 5% i would expect 5% fewer homers at citi field than shea based on the available historic data. if you scale the home homers to the same number of road homers, you get, for every 1,217 homers hit in road mets games, there will be 1062 homers hit in home mets games, presuming the current ratio stands up. 1106 -1062 = 44 44 / 1106 = 0.040, or 4% fewer homers hit at citi than shea, given an equivalent road-homer environment. fuck jason bay and david wright even more. oe: those espn park factors sure are wonky, aren't they?

Ceetar Jun 09 2011 11:41 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

There isn't enough data. also, you can't ignore the injuries to Wright and Davis and Bay sucking. These guys are just not hitting home runs. Johan Santana is out. Oliver Perez was pretty good at Shea, sucked in Citi. offense is down across the league the last two years. There's rumors that they changed the ball a bit going into 2010 They definitely changed the maximum diameter of the bat. Which means less margin for error in hitting the ball cleanly. There are way too many variables to deduce how much Citi Field hurts homers. What's more important is that we stop trumping it up like that and scaring the players away. (or inversely, making sure our players get it but the opponents are intimidated, maximizing home field advantage)

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2011 11:52 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metsmarathon wrote: (0.91-0.86)/0.91 = 0.054 = 5% i would expect 5% fewer homers at citi field than shea based on the available historic data. if you scale the home homers to the same number of road homers, you get, for every 1,217 homers hit in road mets games, there will be 1062 homers hit in home mets games, presuming the current ratio stands up. 1106 -1062 = 44 44 / 1106 = 0.040, or 4% fewer homers hit at citi than shea, given an equivalent road-homer environment. fuck jason bay and david wright even more. oe: those espn park factors sure are wonky, aren't they? It's 5% more ... but 5% more than 9% ... a difference of more than 50% (5 over 9) ... a large difference. (And this is counting, not dropping, the 2009 season). I don't know why you say fuck Bay and Wright. It seems to me that Citi Field reduces HR's so drastically that the stadium is, in all likelihood, a factor in their dropoffs. I assumed this would happen before a single game was ever played at CF, as soon as I learned what the dimensions and height of the outfield walls were. I'd say" fuck Citi Field" before I gave the fuck you to Bay or Wright.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2011 11:55 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ceetar wrote: you can't ignore the injuries to Wright and Davis and Bay sucking. Yes you can. They play road games, too.

metsmarathon Jun 09 2011 12:22 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

relative to a neutral field, citi field is a 50% more difficult place to hit homers in than shea stadium. so for every 1217 road homers, shea costs you 111 home homers, whereas citi costs you 155. yes. yes. i know. so if you have a hitter who hits 12 homers on the road, with a home-run-distance distribution equivalent to the sum total of all hitters to play for or against the mets over the prior ten seasons , he will hit one fewer home run at shea, and 1.5 fewer home runs at citi. so that 24 home run hitting guy who plays all his games on a neutral field will become a 23 home run hitting guy at shea, and a 22.5 home run hitting guy at citi field. yes, i see how this should cause home run hitters to cry and carry on and drastically change their approach. obviously, a guy who routinely hits the ball farther will be affected less by citi than a guy who does not. that's why i wanna see the specific data for a specific hitter.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2011 12:40 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metsmarathon wrote: that's why i wanna see the specific data for a specific hitter. Hitter's spray charts aren't necessarily probative of the matter. We don't know what specifically causes a hitter to tinker with his approach to playing at CF. It probably differs from hitter to hitter. It might not take more than one or two HR's lost for a hitter to change (consciously or not) his swing. It might not even be a lost HR. It might be a shot that's a double anywhere else, but results in a CF fly out because there's more room for the outfielder to run down flyballs or because CF allows the outfielder to position himself one or two steps deeper. It might be based on batted balls hit during batting practice. Only the hitter knows for sure how he's mentally affected by having CF convert some of his seemingly sure extra base hits into outs.

Ceetar Jun 09 2011 01:00 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Do you have any specific instances of where a player has said how he would adjust his swing if he noticed he wasn't hitting it out? Would he try to pull the ball more? hit it more level and ignore HR? Has anyone actually admitted to tailoring a swing to a park in any real way? (More so then "If you hit it in the gaps here, you can really run" or "You really have to step into one")

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 09 2011 01:07 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Remember how Wright c. 2009 came to ST rather freshly-pumped? Perhaps it's less of a swing-adjustment thing, and more of a loss/degradation-of-quick-twitch (that of most use in maintaining bat speed, footspeed-burst, etc.) in putting on more muscle mass? /Totally whistling in the dark

Ceetar Jun 09 2011 01:18 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Remember how Wright c. 2009 came to ST rather freshly-pumped? Perhaps it's less of a swing-adjustment thing, and more of a loss/degradation-of-quick-twitch (that of most use in maintaining bat speed, footspeed-burst, etc.) in putting on more muscle mass? /Totally whistling in the dark I thought it was 2010 that he came particularly bulked up? I'm not sure strictly muscle mass adds any appreciable distance to home runs as compared to bat speed and what not. Since the impulse of force is mass times change of velocity over time, the quicker you get the bat through the zone, the greater the impulse and also why increasing the weight of the bat can often be determental to power, because it may slow you down more than it helps. (and why some have speculated that Ruth would've had even more power had he not felt less manly wielding a lighter bat)

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2011 01:24 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ceetar wrote: Do you have any specific instances of where a player has said how he would adjust his swing if he noticed he wasn't hitting it out? I'm not aware of any. I doubt that a player would admit to altering his swing to make up for the HR's he thinks he'd otherwise lose to Citi Field. The player wouldn't want to be perceived as blaming a stadium for his diminished production; it goes against baseball's unwritten code that looks down on a player who makes excuses for his play, even when those excuses have merit; and he'd probably be admitting to ignoring instruction or advice from the coaching staff. Ceetar wrote: Would he try to pull the ball more? hit it more level and ignore HR? My guess is that a player would try to pull the ball more often to increase HR production, especialy a right-handed hitter at Citi Field (like Bay and Wright). To pull the ball, the batter must hit the pitch earlier instead of later. This allows the batter to make contact at the point in his swing where the speed of the bat is at its fastest. Distance = mass x velocity. So assuming all else equal, like the weight of his bat and the incoming speed of the pitch, the ball will travel farther when struck harder, which is faster, which is the velocity variable. That's why, all else equal, it's much easier for a batter to pull a ball for distance x than it is to hit the ball for the same distance x to the opposite field. Of course, to swing harder, a batter has to swing earlier, and that's where the tradeoff begins. He might hit a few more HR's, but at the expense of not seeing the ball as much, or as well, and thus, also striking out more or hitting more clunkers. It's possible that by trying to hit the ball farther, the player, in the long run, ends up hitting the ball for shorter distances. I think that Jason Bay is definitely swinging earlier. To me, this is obvious enough that it's readily apparent from simply watching him on TV. He might be trying to hit the ball farther to compensate for CF. Or he might be trying to compensate for reduced bat speed from age or injury. Or he just might be messed up. Only Bay knows for sure.

Ceetar Jun 09 2011 01:38 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

It seems illogical that he'd be actively altering his swing _in game_. It's not like he's having any trouble blasting them out in BP. Granted those pitchers are slower and you see them longer. Maybe that's all it is the extra half second or whatever is enough to overcome the disadvantage of starting early? Beats me, I'm not a professional hitter (is he?) There certainly seems to be plenty of pitches in which the bat is in the zone at the optimal time and his swing looks fine. but he misses. Sometimes I wish Terry would demand he just stand there and watch, and strike out if that's what happens. no swinging. Maybe he should be the batter-dummy for all the pitchers side sessions. just stand in the batters box and track the pitches. I would do some crazy stuff if i was manager..

metsmarathon Jun 09 2011 02:18 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

you seem to miss my point. my point in looking at the home run tracks is to look at what would happen if the hitter did not adjust his approach. of the 36 homers jason bay hit in 2009, how many would still be homers if he struck them all in citi field. my argument is that jason bay and david wright should not have tinkered with their swing in some foolish attempt to eke out more power, as the negative impact on their numbers due to the farther fences would not merit the inevitable tradeoffs. that if they kept on doing what they were doing, they'd be fine. particularly in relation to shea stadium, which already had a depressive effect on home runs. i'm not arguing that citi field did not cause david wright to change his approach / swing. i'm not arguing that citi field caused jason bay to change his approach / swing. i'm arguing that they were foolish to have. that players have indeed changed their approach due to the dimensions of citi field neither proves nor disproves my point. players do stupid things. players wear plastic necklaces with holographic stickers on them. i don't expect them to have done any sort of scientific analysis on the matter.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2011 06:26 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metsmarathon wrote: you seem to miss my point. my point in looking at the home run tracks is to look at what would happen if the hitter did not adjust his approach. of the 36 homers jason bay hit in 2009, how many would still be homers if he struck them all in citi field. Gotcha.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2011 06:47 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ceetar wrote: Do you have any specific instances of where a player has said how he would adjust his swing if he noticed he wasn't hitting it out? I'm not aware of any. I doubt that a player would admit to altering his swing to make up for the HR's he thinks he'd otherwise lose to Citi Field. The player wouldn't want to be perceived as blaming a stadium for his diminished production; it goes against baseball's unwritten code that looks down on a player who makes excuses for his play, even when those excuses have merit; and he'd probably be admitting to ignoring instruction or advice from the coaching staff. On second thought, a few weeks ago Jeff Francoeur speculated that David Wright must be suffering from having to play half his games in the cavernous Citi Field. It's possible that Frenchy was speaking from actual private comments Wright made, rather than opinion. Frenchy is in a position to know, given that Frenchy and Wright became Mets buddies and socialized together frequently.

Edgy MD Jun 09 2011 06:59 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Wow. The word of Jeff Francoeur. Talk about selective data. Come on. Take it easy and come back to shore. There's no solid ground at all under your feet.

Ashie62 Jun 09 2011 07:08 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Aren't you all getting tired with this one?

Edgy MD Jun 09 2011 07:10 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Gettting?

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2011 07:12 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 09 2011 07:21 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Wow. The word of Jeff Francoeur. Talk about selective data. Come on. Take it easy and come back to shore. There's no solid ground at all under your feet. What's wrong with that theory? Wright confides to Frenchy. Frenchy disses Citi Field, couching Wright's gripes as Frenchy's own opinion. And how is this "selective data"? Or any kind of data? It's --possibly-- one baseball player's opinion that Citi Field's dimensions are ridiculous.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 09 2011 07:14 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ashie62 wrote: Aren't you all getting tired with this one? Bill James would be rolling over in his grave. If he were dead. Park effects are everything.

Edgy MD Jun 09 2011 07:32 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Nobody said there isn't a park effect. And no, they're not everything. They're effects.

Elster88 Jun 09 2011 10:32 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

David Wright has been everything I could've wanted from a ballplayer on my favorite team since he arrived. As EdgyDC put it long ago "I can't believe he's mine." The jackass owners (are we all agreed that they are at least part-jackass?) built a monstrosity of a ballpark that has had at least some kind of effect, mental or otherwise, on David. And intelligent Met fans are telling David to go fuck himself. I don't get it.

Edgy MD Jun 09 2011 10:40 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Wow. The word of Jeff Francoeur. Talk about selective data. Come on. Take it easy and come back to shore. There's no solid ground at all under your feet. What's wrong with that theory? Wright confides to Frenchy. Frenchy disses Citi Field, couching Wright's gripes as Frenchy's own opinion. And how is this "selective data"? Or any kind of data? It's --possibly-- one baseball player's opinion that Citi Field's dimensions are ridiculous. Because you typically responded to self-serving quotes out of Francouer's mouth last year with "I see through that cocksucker." Now that he's gone, the sudden creditiblity of these opinions are useful to your agenda. This is obvious if you'd take a step back. I'm not sure how this became a referendum on Wright fucking himself, but no, I'm not in favor of that.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 10 2011 12:09 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Wow. The word of Jeff Francoeur. Talk about selective data. Come on. Take it easy and come back to shore. There's no solid ground at all under your feet. What's wrong with that theory? Wright confides to Frenchy. Frenchy disses Citi Field, couching Wright's gripes as Frenchy's own opinion. And how is this "selective data"? Or any kind of data? It's --possibly-- one baseball player's opinion that Citi Field's dimensions are ridiculous. Because you typically responded to self-serving quotes out of Francouer's mouth last year with "I see through that cocksucker." Now that he's gone, the sudden creditiblity of these opinions are useful to your agenda. This is obvious if you'd take a step back. I'm not sure how this became a referendum on Wright fucking himself, but no, I'm not in favor of that. I don't have an agenda. I have an opinion --my opinion-- that Citi Field is detrimental to power hitters. David Wright might share my opinion. Francoeur --possibly-- might have been speaking on behalf of his buddy Wright when he said that Citi Field's dimensions are ridiculous and that Wright must be suffering to play half his games there. Francoeur no longer has any skin in this game, thus reducing the possibility that his comments about Citi Field were self-serving. But only Frenchy and Wright know for sure whether Frenchy's recent Citi Field comments were based on actual remarks Wright made. Am I now obligated to dismiss every one of Francoeur's ideas and opinions till the end of time, just because I generally dislike him? Are you saying that Francoeur must be wrong about Citi Field because I called him a cocksucker? Because the issue here ... the topic of discussion ... is Citi Field's dimensions -- not that I think that Francoeur is a cocksucker scrub. Besides, Frenchy can hit a baseball a lot better than I could, Major League scrub and all. I have no idea what you mean by a "referendum on Wright fucking himself", or why that comment even appears as a response to something I wrote, especially since I would excuse Wright --and Bay-- if it should become known that either of them indeed altered their swings as a response to Citi Field's more spacious dimensions. But you could do better than to challenge my posts on vague and conclusory objections that I have an agenda, whatever that even means.

Fman99 Jun 10 2011 03:29 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Here, let me get you guys two napkins to jerk each other off into.

Edgy MD Jun 10 2011 05:41 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I have an opinion --my opinion-- that Citi Field is detrimental to power hitters. Great. Everybody agreed with you before the park even opened.

Centerfield Jun 10 2011 07:52 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

It's not just Jeff Francoeur. There have been a number of comments here and there that suggest Wright is affected by the dimensions of the park. Chipper Jones had a comment a few years ago. When Jason Bay hit is long HR in Houston, Burkhardt reported that Wright told him to save the long ones for CitiField. Obviously it's not irrefutable evidence, but if there is this much chatter about it, it's obvious Wright is talking about it. And he should be talking about it. The dimensions at CitiField are not only stupid, they specifically hurt Wright. David used to hit those opposite field Piazza-like shots, except that he didn't have Piazza's distance. I remember thinking his power would dip drastically as he got older because he had very little margin for error on those HR's. The minute I saw Citi's dimensions, I remember thinking this is going to take away Wright's opposite field power. I imagine he felt so too. How can someone blame Wright for making an adjustment? He hit TEN home runs in 2009. His strikeouts are through the roof now, and he's not as complete a hitter, but at least he hit 29 last year and no one's talking about David Wright's disappearing power. And it's not just Wright and Bay. Beltran's having a terrific year but his HR numbers are down. Reyes has one home run this year. The Mets were dead last in HR's during Citi's first year by a considerable margin. They were slightly better in 2010 (24 of 30). Now, even with the adjusted dimensions, they are still 25 out of 30 teams. And it's hard to blame them for this. I'm sure they consciously think that they should not change their approach, but you can't help things sometimes. Anyone who has stood in front of a long par 5 knows this. You tell yourself to relax, don't try to crush it, swing your normal swing, then you top it and roll it 40 feet. It happens. They need to get rid of the Mo-Zone. Lower the fence all around and make it a fair field. Hopefully it won't be too late to bring Wright back to the first tier superstar he used to be.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 10 2011 08:05 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: I have an opinion --my opinion-- that Citi Field is detrimental to power hitters. Great. Everybody agreed with you before the park even opened. Is this the "one comment per topic" rule?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2011 08:06 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I think they should just put up a fence; no major reconstruction required. Run a fence (and make it look like the one at Shea!) from left field to right field, however many feet in from the existing walls. The walls are so high that people in the seats would be able to see over the fence, and there would be no ambiguity about home runs. They'd either land in the seats or in the gap between the fence and the wall. And that gap would be a great spot for Joe Pignatano to grow tomatoes.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 10 2011 08:07 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think they should just put up a fence; no major reconstruction required. Run a fence (and make it look like the one at Shea!) from left field to right field, however many feet in from the existing walls. The walls are so high that people in the seats would be able to see over the fence, and there would be no ambiguity about home runs. They'd either land in the seats or in the gap between the fence and the wall. And that gap would be a great spot for Joe Pignatano to grow tomatoes.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2011 08:12 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

There you go! I'll start calling some fence guys and get some quotes. I bet it can be done for less than $2,000.

Ceetar Jun 10 2011 08:46 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think they should just put up a fence; no major reconstruction required. Run a fence (and make it look like the one at Shea!) from left field to right field, however many feet in from the existing walls. The walls are so high that people in the seats would be able to see over the fence, and there would be no ambiguity about home runs. They'd either land in the seats or in the gap between the fence and the wall. And that gap would be a great spot for Joe Pignatano to grow tomatoes. I hate that idea. I"m fine if they want to redesign things, but not in a simply "We want more power" way. If they create an outdoor Mo's zone by straightening the wall/seats there and having a standing area in front of the second. Then that's cool. Be fun to be there. If they want to create a similar patio type area in LF by extending the bottom 6 feet of the wall out some. More standing area is good, especially for when the Mets eventually make the playoffs and sell SRO and we start bitching again about the 44k capacity.

dgwphotography Jun 10 2011 10:04 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

A "we want more power" way? How about a "we want the building to be more fair like Shea" way?

Ceetar Jun 10 2011 10:09 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

dgwphotography wrote: A "we want more power" way? How about a "we want the building to be more fair like Shea" way? I don't want the building to be more like Shea. In fact, I think some of these ways fans want the park to be more like Shea (such as blue walls) are a bad idea. Citi Field is Citi Field and Shea was Shea.

dgwphotography Jun 10 2011 10:36 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I couldn't disagree more. Citi Field is a dull, lifeless place, that is devoid of color. Whenever I see a Mets classic on SNY, I'm struck by how much more colorful Shea was...

metsmarathon Jun 10 2011 11:20 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

if they wanted to move the fences, i would do almost exactly this. i'd actually prefer a shea-like arc in left field, but it's exactly my thoughts on the right field spot. maybe i should just email the hittracker guy my query on jason bay and david wright, and the effect the citi field walls would have had on their 2009 and 2008 home runs, respectively, in an attempt to finally nail down just how much they should have expected teh walls to affect their home run totals, and the extend to which tehy should have attempted to modify their respective approaches. as we can see, neither changed for the better, though wright seems to have undone much of what he screwed up.

Ceetar Jun 10 2011 12:21 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

dgwphotography wrote: I couldn't disagree more. Citi Field is a dull, lifeless place, that is devoid of color. Whenever I see a Mets classic on SNY, I'm struck by how much more colorful Shea was... I don't find Citi Field dull and lifeless, and I love the place, but it's far from perfect. (which is subjective obviously) the colored seats/wall was a Shea thing. We took the orange foul poles and the apple. that's enough. I'm not against Citi Field developing it's own quirks/color though. I like the kitchy stuff the franchise has done. I miss the neon players. for instance, i think it'd be cool if they reinacted the Buckner play similar to this: [youtube]NOY1Sg5LuIo[/youtube] Also from Coors, there's the mile high line in the upper deck painted purple. I think it'd be fun to mimic that at Citi, painting an entire row of seats around the stadium orange. Doesn't ahve to mean anything. Or you could put it at the height of Agee's Shea home run. or you could wait until if/when a Mets player homers to the upper deck. Or just start painting the seats orange that Mets hit with home runs. make the outfield seats look rather speculed, but it'd be fun.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 05 2011 08:46 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

With David Wright and Lucas Duda each hitting balls tonoght that would'be been HR's in practically any other park in baseball (Wright's blast had the distance but probably not the height to clear Fenway's Green Monster), I thought I'd update the HR tallies for Met games in the Citi Field era. 2011 Total HR's hit at Citi Field (Mets and Mets' opponents) - 72 HR's/51 games (1.41 per game) Total HR's hit; all Mets road games (Mets and Mets' opponents) - 110 HR's/60 games (1.83 per game) 2009-2011 Total HR's hit at Citi Field (Mets and Mets' opponents) - 312 HR's/213 games (1.46 per game) Total HR's hit; all Mets road games (Mets and Mets' opponents) - 386 HR's/222 games (1.74 per game)

Ashie62 Aug 05 2011 09:40 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

No shock there. Enough of a sample size to call it a trend. Please bring in right center. It might help to keep Sugarpants.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 06 2011 09:04 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

With David Wright and Lucas Duda each hitting balls tonoght that would'be been HR's in practically any other park in baseball (Wright's blast had the distance but probably not the height to clear Fenway's Green Monster), I thought I'd update the HR tallies .... David Wright's scorching drive in the first inning Friday night struck halfway up that infernal left-field wall at Citi Field for a one-run double instead of a two-run homer, just as Chipper Jones knew it would. "It's funny to see them hit the ball off the wall and look at me like, 'God-damned, what do I got to do?'" Jones said Friday, before that 16-foot wall and Tim Hudson doomed the Mets to a 4-1 defeat, their fifth in a row. It's not lost on Jones that the Mets are struggling to contend in the NL East, while his Braves emerged from their franchise slump and will likely make the playoffs for a second straight year. Both Jones and Terry Collins share the opinion that the Mets' lousy home record might be the result of those imposing walls, plus the absence of a jet stream out to right-center, which sometimes carried Jones' balls out of Shea. Citi Field is both modestly scaled and impossibly dimensioned, an architectural paradox. "I've played here long enough to know that's not a home run," Wright said of his double. There was another blast in the seventh last night by Lucas Duda, a homer elsewhere, which died at the warning track in right. Will the Mets ever do something about this? Not Jones' problem, really. He dragged his sore quad and surgically repaired knee one more time into Flushing, and the new place was something of an unpleasant reminder about how the romance and aura of the venue had flown. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... ?r=topnews "Citi Field is a lot bigger than Shea; it doesn't affect me as much as it affects Wright and [Jason] Bay and those guys," said Jones, who will return to Atlanta's starting lineup tonight following knee and quad injuries. "At Shea there was a jet stream out to right-center. I've seen David tattoo balls here that sometimes get caught that would have been home runs at Shea. It's funny to see those guys lace a ball off the wall and get to second base and look at me, like 'Damn!' It can be frustrating." And so it was in the first inning last night, as Wright blasted a long double off the wall in left-center to drive in the Mets' only run. Wright crushed the pitch from Tim Hudson, but had no hope of clearing the fence. "I've played here long enough to know that's not a home run here," said Wright, a hint of dejection in his voice. "You better swallow your pride when you walk into this park," said Jones, who added he has no plans to retire, "and try to hit the ball into the gaps and concentrate on being a .300 hitter instead of a 30-home run guy." Added Wright, "It's a big park, there's no sense whining about it." Just another Mets challenge. http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/nem ... z1UGGRybXM

Ceetar Aug 06 2011 10:03 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

perhaps the 'hint of dejection' was because the Mets lost. One game (what's that now, 11-10 since the break) does not break the Braves' "franchise slump" (or is he referring to the drought from '06-'09 of not making the playoffs?) whine whine whine. Are we ever going to stop tracking every fly ball (while mostly ignoring how many deep fly balls guys like Izzy and Capuano have given up to the same parts) and complain it would've been a home run in Philly?

batmagadanleadoff Aug 06 2011 10:21 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ceetar wrote: perhaps the 'hint of dejection' was because the Mets lost. Perhaps. Or perhaps Wright was dejected because it's unlikely that the Mets'll clinch 1st place on September 25. He might've been dejected because he had too much sugar in his pants. Or too many boogers up his nose. Sugars or boogers? It could be anything, really. Or whatever you want it to be, especially if you ignore the obvious meaning. Ceetar wrote: whine whine whine. Are we ever going to stop tracking every fly ball (while mostly ignoring how many deep fly balls guys like Izzy and Capuano have given up to the same parts) and complain it would've been a home run in Philly? I agree. It makes no difference whether the center field wall is in front of second base or in Ohio. Just like it doesn't matter what a team pays a productive player. If the player's an asset, then ther's no limit to what that player deserves money-wise. We should really ignore everything because nothing really matters. To me. Anyway the wind blows.

metirish Aug 21 2011 08:43 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Bradley: For Mets, moving in Citi Field fences is a good place to start By Jeff Bradley/Star-Ledger Columnist NEW YORK — Consider it just another part of the reconstruction of the Mets. Along with tightening the franchise’s payroll, expect Citi Field’s dimensions to shrink in 2012. According to a high-ranking Mets official, “It’s pretty certain” some alterations will be made to the three-year old ballpark’s outfield dimensions next season. And while it will look like a reaction to the Mets’ abysmal home record this season (25-34), that’s just one piece of the puzzle. The Mets are looking big-picture here. As they rebuild their roster for next season and beyond, they know how difficult it will be to attract run producers to play 81 games in a park that’s gained the reputation as hitter-unfriendly. “It’s very difficult to play here if you’re an offensive player,” Terry Collins admitted today, before the Mets lost, 11-9, to the Milwaukee Brewers. “Especially if you’re a guy who’s supposed to be driving in runs. It’s a tough place to play. If there are some adjustments made, I think that would help. I think it would certainly help to get some of our guys to relax. I’m not denying it won’t. I think the park gets in the mind of hitters.” Among the changes, expect to see the left-field wall, which is nearly 16 feet tall, to be lowered. General manager Sandy Alderson, while not definitively stating changes would be made, said earlier this week there are nips and tucks that can be made to the 2.5 acre field that would not require any major structural changes to the ballpark. Of course, that would be in keeping with the tight budget the organization is working with. It would not be the first time a ballpark was adjusted. In 2003, for example, the Detroit Tigers decided to move in the fences at Comerica Park after three seasons that frustrated their long-ball hitters. David Wright, who along with Jason Bay has been the Mets’ hitter most adversely affected by Citi Field’s dimensions, said, “It’s frustrating when you hit a ball good and it doesn’t go anywhere. That’s not just here, but also in San Diego and the other pitcher’s parks. Of course, I’d like to see a place where you hit a ball good, you square a ball up, you’re rewarded for it. Obviously, that’s not the case here.” This season, Citi Field ranks 24th of the 30 major-league parks in home runs yielded. The Mets have failed to hit a home run in 34 of their 59 home games and have just a dozen multi-home run games at home this season. It’s not an impossible place to hit home runs, as evidenced by the four homers the Mets and Brewers combined to hit today, including a monster shot by Angel Pagan that gave the Mets a 9-7 lead in the eighth. But if a 30-home run season is the benchmark for a power hitter, consider since the Mets moved into Citi Field in 2009 they’ve yet to have a player reach that mark. That’s why there’s rampant speculation that sluggers won’t want to sign with the Mets. Wright, who has hit 22 home runs in 639 career at-bats at Citi Field, said it’s not so much the distances down the lines (335 feet to left, 300 to right), but the deep power alleys and high fences that make it such a difficult home run park. “I’ve never been one to lobby for anything,” Wright said, “But I’m a hitter and, of course, I’d prefer a hitter’s park over a pitcher’s park. Everyone knows this place plays big. I guess I’d love to pitch here.” Creating the right balance between pitcher-friendly and hitter-friendly is what the Mets will seek before officially changing the dimensions. Alderson and the front office also have to operate with the knowledge that next year’s Mets roster could look radically different than what’s taking the field right now. And, of course, you don’t adjust the fences specifically for one set of players. You have to have an organizational game plan. “It’s a difficult question because we pitch here, too,” said Collins. “Our struggles at home this year are not because of the size of the ballpark. I still think if you use the field for what it is, and try to take good swings, take base hits and doubles and possibly triples, you can still put up decent some decent numbers here. I really believe that.” Indeed, if the Mets were on their way to National League East title or NL wild card, doing it with pitching, defense and speed, it’s doubtful anyone would be thinking of changing the dimensions of Citi Field. But with the team in all likelihood headed to its third sub-.500 record since moving to Citi Field, it’s a lot easier to switch. “You can say you’re going to pitch, run and catch it, that’s great,” said Collins, “But you still have to score runs. There’s got to be a place for the power hitter. We have a tough time catching up because we can’t hit the ball out of the ballpark, especially here.” The Mets have a lot of catching up to do.

Edgy MD Aug 21 2011 01:46 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

They have a winning percentage .106 lower at home than on the road. Of course, last year their home winning percentage was .185 better. Maybe it's just a thing.

G-Fafif Aug 21 2011 02:53 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

What the left field fence needs is a Bay window.

Ashie62 Aug 21 2011 09:17 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

The dimensions are as arbitrary as a minature golf course. Bring the fucking fence down and bring in right. It's the Wright thing to do. Just do it.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 22 2011 12:19 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Bradley: For Mets, moving in Citi Field fences is a good place to start By Jeff Bradley/Star-Ledger Columnist David Wright, who along with Jason Bay has been the Mets’ hitter most adversely affected by Citi Field’s dimensions, said, “It’s frustrating when you hit a ball good and it doesn’t go anywhere. That’s not just here, but also in San Diego and the other pitcher’s parks. Of course, I’d like to see a place where you hit a ball good, you square a ball up, you’re rewarded for it. Obviously, that’s not the case here.... Wright, who has hit 22 home runs in 639 career at-bats at Citi Field, said it’s not so much the distances down the lines (335 feet to left, 300 to right), but the deep power alleys and high fences that make it such a difficult home run park. “I’ve never been one to lobby for anything,” Wright said, “But I’m a hitter and, of course, I’d prefer a hitter’s park over a pitcher’s park. Everyone knows this place plays big. I guess I’d love to pitch here.” David Wright swears that he never lobbies for anything right before lobbying for something. If this is what he says in public about Citi Field's dimensions, I could only imagine the gripes and whines he privately told Frenchy Francoeur over the last two seasons. (And rightfully so).

G-Fafif Aug 22 2011 07:25 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

David Wright, who along with Jason Bay has been the Mets’ hitter most adversely affected by Citi Field’s dimensions, said, “It’s frustrating when you hit a ball good and it doesn’t go anywhere. That’s not just here, but also in San Diego and the other pitcher’s parks. Of course, I’d like to see a place where you hit a ball good, you square a ball up, you’re rewarded for it. Obviously, that’s not the case here.... Wright, who has hit 22 home runs in 639 career at-bats at Citi Field, said it’s not so much the distances down the lines (335 feet to left, 300 to right), but the deep power alleys and high fences that make it such a difficult home run park. “I’ve never been one to lobby for anything,” Wright said, “But I’m a hitter and, of course, I’d prefer a hitter’s park over a pitcher’s park. Everyone knows this place plays big. I guess I’d love to pitch here.” 1) It's frustrating when David Wright doesn't hit a ball well -- or says he hits a ball good instead of well. 2) At this rate, I wouldn't mind David Wright pitching here. He almost pitched in an All-Star Game.

Edgy MD Aug 22 2011 02:38 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ashie62 wrote: The dimensions are as arbitrary as a minature golf course. Bring the fucking fence down and bring in right. It's the Wright thing to do. Just do it. They're all arbitrary. Bringing them down and closer in right would be arbitrary. Arguably moreso.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 22 2011 11:49 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Okay, but one's gratuitous and arbitrary, whereas the other would presumably be purposeful. Wright stats, no Wright stats... it's all the same to me (after all, why would you design a new park's strengths specifically around those of your CURRENT best hitter, when the park will presumably be there long after he's gone). I just want to see some human-robbed home runs, is all.

Farmer Ted Aug 23 2011 06:51 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

RA was bummed about Bay not getting a homer to left the other day (the ball bounced off the wall). "It would have been a homer anywhere else in the universe." Well, true, but you need to be careful RA. That wall has probably saved a few points on your ERA as well.

SteveJRogers Aug 23 2011 06:59 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ceetar wrote: the colored seats/wall was a Shea thing. We took the orange foul poles and the apple. that's enough. I'm not against Citi Field developing it's own quirks/color though. I like the kitchy stuff the franchise has done. I miss the neon players. I don't. I can live with the homer apple, but not something that was a relic of the late 1980s-early 1990s that should have stayed with that era. It also gives more ammunition for those who think the Mets operate on a minor league level when it comes to their presentation. Also from Coors, there's the mile high line in the upper deck painted purple. I think it'd be fun to mimic that at Citi, painting an entire row of seats around the stadium orange. Doesn't ahve to mean anything. Or you could put it at the height of Agee's Shea home run. or you could wait until if/when a Mets player homers to the upper deck. Or just start painting the seats orange that Mets hit with home runs. make the outfield seats look rather speculed, but it'd be fun. Not possible anymore due to the smaller seating bowl. I do like the idea though of bringing back the orange and blue colored seats. Maybe have blue in the Prom and Field level (including the Apple & Bridge seats), and orange in the middle.

Vic Sage Aug 23 2011 10:07 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

yes, by all means, lets have the stadium look like clown vomit. Stadia used to have "quirks" because of the necessity of engineering them, often in downtown areas. Wall heights and distances were dictated by geography, economics and the limitations of engineering in the early-mid 20th century. What we have now, since Camden Yards, are a bunch of faux charming throwback stadiums, replicating or inventing quirks that are totally arbitrary and whimsical, based on nostalgia and marketing concepts. They are total bullshit, and CitiField is just another example of it. I have an idea... why not build a stadium that is engineered to provide the best possible view of the game from every seat in the place? That is laid out to be as "neutral" as possible, so as not to impose strategies on the game's management or roster construction, letting the best team win with the minimum amount of "noise"? That's color scheme and visual style celebrates the history and themes of the team playing there, with architectural design consistent with the best design of its OWN time? That is as cost efficient as possible, so that neither the taxpayer or even the owner is saddled with burdensome debt disproportionate to the value of a ballfield? That creates as many permanent jobs in its environment as possible by being integrated into its neighborhood, instead of a stand-alone destination that tries to ignore its surroundings at all costs? That provides not only top-price luxury boxes, but makes cheap seats plentiful, too, without reducing capacity to create "scarcity" and drive up ticket prices, effectively pricing out the majority of the fan base? CitiField accomplished almost none of this. But this is my criteria; yours and the Wilpons may differ.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 23 2011 11:50 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Vic Sage wrote: That is as cost efficient as possible, so that neither the taxpayer or even the owner is saddled with burdensome debt disproportionate to the value of a ballfield? That creates as many permanent jobs in its environment as possible by being integrated into its neighborhood, instead of a stand-alone destination that tries to ignore its surroundings at all costs? I agree with almost all of your planks on this. But, to be fair, the first of these is nigh-impossible for most municipalities and absolutely impossible in landstrapped New York... and the first, well... the particular neighborhood is more than a bit problematic. Would you rather have a blue-and-orange tire fire in front of the park or a Teach Your Kids To Remove Hubcaps booth in the CF pavilion?

Vic Sage Aug 23 2011 01:25 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I'd rather have any public funding of any aspect of a new park that's going to get approved in such a locale to have a plan (involving the team) for revitalizing the area rather than ignoring it. This is a park near water and various immigrant communities as well as flushing meadows park. Something smarter could have been done beyond using eminent domain on behalf of private interests who want to build hotels, restaurants and amusements, but even that is preferable (if just barely) to the stadium's continued existence in the no-man's land of the iron triangle.

Edgy MD Aug 23 2011 08:39 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Yeah, I agree with most all of Vic's points too. I still don't care much about the wall distances. I think it's a pointless distraction for all and they could be in Connecticut for all I care. But manufactured quirkiness stinks of falseness, and for all the tiresomeness of the batmagadan's chasing Jeff Wilpon up a tree, it's disappointingly true that Jeff doesn't get this. Mostly I think that where there's a wall, it should be climbable. This almost should be an article in the Fan Bill of Rights. It's just about the most exciting play in baseball, and even if it only happens once a decade, it's physical impossibility dampens any and every game just a little. I break with LWFS on the indictment of the neighborhood. Its condition and neglect were, in their own way, falsely engineered by the city as well. With just the standard taxpayer treatment over the decades --- drainage/sewer and other municipal services, paving the potholes, enforcing parking codes, the neighborhood would have had a chance to develop into something that complemented the stadium. I'm a free market guy in this regard, and I think indy league teams should sue the Hell out of American cities for the exclusive nonsense the give to major league teams.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 23 2011 09:37 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: I break with LWFS on the indictment of the neighborhood. Its condition and neglect were, in their own way, falsely engineered by the city as well. With just the standard taxpayer treatment over the decades --- drainage/sewer and other municipal services, paving the potholes, enforcing parking codes, the neighborhood would have had a chance to develop into something that complemented the stadium. To be clear, I don't disagree with that entirely, either (entirely, that is; as I've heard it, the junkyard owners fought any sort of organized development-- or change-- for a while before Flushing Meadows-Corona Park was even there). But we have what we have at this point... unless you think the Wilpons had much to do with said municipal-service stoppage, it's pointless to pin this "failure" on them.

Edgy MD Aug 23 2011 10:06 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

1) Yes, we have what we have, but in reviewing Vic's post as we were, I thought retrocrit was OK. 2) No, I don't really blame the Wilpons, but I thought the schemings of the city were on that retrocrit table as well.

Vic Sage Aug 24 2011 08:58 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

i'm all about the retrocrit. I even love the word "retrocrit". Is that like a thing?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 24 2011 11:34 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I don't know, but I like it. I'm pretty sure about 4/5 of my inner life is retrocrit.

metsguyinmichigan Aug 24 2011 02:22 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Bring them in. I like seeing the Apple rise more than once a month.

Edgy MD Aug 24 2011 07:36 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I like to coin a bullshit word on the 24th of every month --- letting on like: "Oh, you don't know that word? I thought everybody did."

Ashie62 Aug 24 2011 09:26 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

A nostalgic effort.

metirish Sep 20 2011 07:05 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Alderson in the booth, Cohen with the sneaky fastball like tough questions, on Citi Field dimensions , decision should come in October and changes "will not be subtle" .

Fman99 Sep 20 2011 07:36 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I don't know, but I like it. I'm pretty sure about 4/5 of my inner life is retrocrit. I like a clit from the 1970's too. Some of that old school porn with the big bush muffs. Oh wait, what?

Edgy MD Sep 20 2011 07:55 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

metirish wrote: Alderson in the booth, Cohen with the sneaky fastball like tough questions, on Citi Field dimensions , decision should come in October and changes "will not be subtle" . That's tittilating.

Ceetar Sep 20 2011 08:58 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: metirish wrote: Alderson in the booth, Cohen with the sneaky fastball like tough questions, on Citi Field dimensions , decision should come in October and changes "will not be subtle" . That's tittilating. well, he did say nothing's been decided, but made it sound likely.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 21 2011 06:03 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 21 2011 06:10 AM

ST. LOUIS — After reviewing three seasons worth of data, the Mets finally seem to have arrived at the conclusion Citi Field is just too damn big. Speaking after his team’s 11-6 loss to the Cardinals last night, Mets general manager Sandy Alderson said a final decision will be reached next month, but all signs point to a more hitter’s friendly Citi Field, with shortened dimensions for 2012. Alderson said any changes would be "not subtle." The goal, he said, would be to make the ballpark fairer between pitchers and hitters while also placating fans who have called for more offense at Citi Field. "To some extent it’s a question of entertainment," Alderson said. "The hardcore baseball fan I think enjoys the 2-1, the 3-2 [score]. We’re appealing to a little broader segment, and I think offense is appealing. Offense sells." The changes would be music to the ears of David Wright and Jason Bay, both of whom have struggled to hit home runs in the cavernous ballpark. Among the certain changes would be a reduction of the 16-foot wall in left field that has turned many potential home runs into doubles over the ballpark’s first three seasons. But Alderson said the dimensions in left, center and right field might be shortened to help hitters. According to Mets’ research, the average in major league baseball of home runs to balls put in play is about 2.5 percent. At Citi Field that number is 1.9 percent. At Yankee Stadium it’s 3.6 percent. "Those are the kinds of things we look at and consider whether we ought to alter the dimensions somewhat to make it a little more balanced, a little more average in terms of major league baseball," Alderson said. "I think there is some sense that the park is a little more overwhelming to a team that spends half its time there as opposed to a team that comes in for three games and doesn’t really have to alter an approach or think about it too much, and leaves. Those are the kinds of things we’re taking a look at." According to Alderson’s data, just eight home runs have been hit by left-handed hitters to the opposite field at Citi over three years. The major league average is in the 28-29 range. "We have three years worth of data and it’s an appropriate time to take a look at things and see if some alterations would be appropriate. They have certainly been done in other ballparks," Alderson said. As Padres president, Alderson oversaw alterations to PETCO Park that helped hitters. He mentioned Comerica Park in Detroit as another example of a modern ballpark that made changes after it opened to boost offense. "Citi Field is a terrific looking ballpark and we want to make sure that architecturally it’s not compromised," Alderson said. "But at the same time it’s a functional ballpark and I think there are ways, if we decide to make the changes that those changes could blend with the existing structure." Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/shr ... z1YaSydaHY Cavernous baseball stadiums are dumb. They undermine the home team's talent -- kinda like what it would be like if I played miniature golf against Tiger Woods. On a regulation golf course, of course, I'd never ever beat Tiger. But on the mini course, with the Dutch windmills and the loop the loop ramps, I'd win frequently. It would no longer mean a thing that Tiger could hit the ball a zillion feet with a seven-iron. And the Mets, when healthy, are a damn good hitting team.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 21 2011 06:10 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

More quotes: When asked how the changes might affect shortstop Jose Reyes, a prolific triples hitter whom the Mets hope to re-sign, Alderson quipped, "He might have to slide into third a little more often." Left unsaid was the impact reduced dimensions could have on David Wright, the hitter who has appeared most negatively affected by the Mets' move to Citi Field. The third baseman has hit only 22 home runs at home since the start of the 2009 season. He hit 21 homers at Shea Stadium in 2008 alone. One of the challenges for the Mets will be to modify the outfield walls without making them an eyesore. It is unlikely they would demolish and rebuild any part of the stands, so the trick would be to alter the field dimensions in a way that is aesthetically pleasing. Alderson said one option in left field would be to build a new, shorter fence in front of the 16-foot wall, similar to what the Detroit Tigers did when they brought in the left-field wall at Comerica Park in 2003. "You don't want to make the ballpark jury-rigged," Alderson said. "Citi Field is a terrific-looking ballpark, and you want to make sure that architecturally it's not compromised. But at the same time, it's a functional ballpark. I think there are ways, if we do decide to make those changes, there are ways that those changes could blend with the existing structure." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 83568.html

HahnSolo Sep 21 2011 07:26 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

They can find a way to do it if they want to (bringing in the fences). They changed the line distances at Shea from 341 to 338 by adding a small fence. Was it pretty? No. But nobody killed themselves running into that brick wall, either.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2011 07:28 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Sounds like it's pretty much certain that there will be changes. I'm looking forward to learning the details.

Edgy MD Sep 21 2011 07:44 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Cavernous baseball stadiums are dumb. They undermine the home team's talent -- kinda like what it would be like if I played miniature golf against Tiger Woods. On a regulation golf course, of course, I'd never ever beat Tiger. But on the mini course, with the Dutch windmills and the loop the loop ramps, I'd win frequently. It would no longer mean a thing that Tiger could hit the ball a zillion feet with a seven-iron. And the Mets, when healthy, are a damn good hitting team. I think it could be the exact opposite of that. The closer the wall, or the hole, the more neutralized talent is. I think dreaming of a new ballpark is like dreaming of a new home and a new life in an faraway city. You get there, you wake up, and you find out that you're still you. Good luck, Jason Bay.

Ashie62 Sep 21 2011 07:53 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

The grass is not greener on the other side?

Ceetar Sep 21 2011 07:54 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ashie62 wrote: The grass is not greener on the other side? Grass around the apple used to be green, but they had to paint it black. so no. not greener.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 21 2011 07:57 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: Cavernous baseball stadiums are dumb. They undermine the home team's talent -- kinda like what it would be like if I played miniature golf against Tiger Woods. On a regulation golf course, of course, I'd never ever beat Tiger. But on the mini course, with the Dutch windmills and the loop the loop ramps, I'd win frequently. It would no longer mean a thing that Tiger could hit the ball a zillion feet with a seven-iron. And the Mets, when healthy, are a damn good hitting team. I think it could be the exact opposite of that. The closer the wall, or the hole, the more neutralized talent is. At the extremes, probably, I'd say. That's why wealthy teams shouldn't build parks that are uniformly extreme. I think that the closest park to Citi Field, dimension-wise, though not an exact match, was the Astrodome, and the Astros were mainly mediocre there. It's hard to win consistently in a cavernous park. Dodger Stadium by contrast, though a pitcher's park, isn't extremely cavernous. Its' foul territory was spacious. Edgy DC wrote: I think dreaming of a new ballpark is like dreaming of a new home and a new life in an faraway city. You get there, you wake up, and you find out that you're still you. Good luck, Jason Bay. This, I disagree with, for reasons already stated. You may be you, but you are a product of your home stadium. (See, Castilla, Vinny; Bichette, Dante, etc.)

Edgy MD Sep 21 2011 08:20 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

And the Rockies were still no great shakes because they gave up a record amount of homers too. The "you" I refer to is the Mets.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 21 2011 05:38 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

What a hypocrite this Bobby Ojeda is. As of 40 seconds ago and on the heels of the latest Alderson clip on the CF walls, he's now suddenly all for bringing in the CF walls. The team needs HR's to win and Mets are disheartened from the get go at Spring Training when their bombs three hop the Florida OF walls that are, by design, as far as away as Citi's, sez Ojeda. You shoulda heard what he was saying up until 40 seconds ago. OF dimensions don't matter, he' say, while rewinding an Ike Davis 440 foot bomb for his Exhibit A.

Ceetar Sep 21 2011 05:40 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: What a hypocrite this Bobby Ojeda is. As of 40 seconds ago and on the heels of the latest Alderson clip on the CF walls, he's now suddenly all for bringing in the CF walls. The team needs HR's to win and Mets are disheartened from the get go at Spring Training when their bombs three hop the Florida OF walls that are as far as away as Citi's, sez Ojeda. You shoulda heard what he was saying up until 40 seconds ago. OF dimensions don't matter, he' say, while rewinding an Ike Davis 440 foot bomb for his Exhibit A. Ojeda's worthless.

Ashie62 Sep 21 2011 06:39 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ceetar wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: What a hypocrite this Bobby Ojeda is. As of 40 seconds ago and on the heels of the latest Alderson clip on the CF walls, he's now suddenly all for bringing in the CF walls. The team needs HR's to win and Mets are disheartened from the get go at Spring Training when their bombs three hop the Florida OF walls that are as far as away as Citi's, sez Ojeda. You shoulda heard what he was saying up until 40 seconds ago. OF dimensions don't matter, he' say, while rewinding an Ike Davis 440 foot bomb for his Exhibit A. Ojeda's worthless. Steve Olin would agree.

Edgy MD Sep 21 2011 07:51 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

The Sox got Schiraldi and Gardner and Christensen for him. The Mets got Hubie back.

HahnSolo Sep 21 2011 09:01 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ashie62 wrote: Ceetar wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: What a hypocrite this Bobby Ojeda is. As of 40 seconds ago and on the heels of the latest Alderson clip on the CF walls, he's now suddenly all for bringing in the CF walls. The team needs HR's to win and Mets are disheartened from the get go at Spring Training when their bombs three hop the Florida OF walls that are as far as away as Citi's, sez Ojeda. You shoulda heard what he was saying up until 40 seconds ago. OF dimensions don't matter, he' say, while rewinding an Ike Davis 440 foot bomb for his Exhibit A. Ojeda's worthless. Steve Olin would agree. Wow.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 21 2011 09:07 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

HahnSolo wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Ceetar wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: What a hypocrite this Bobby Ojeda is. As of 40 seconds ago and on the heels of the latest Alderson clip on the CF walls, he's now suddenly all for bringing in the CF walls. The team needs HR's to win and Mets are disheartened from the get go at Spring Training when their bombs three hop the Florida OF walls that are as far as away as Citi's, sez Ojeda. You shoulda heard what he was saying up until 40 seconds ago. OF dimensions don't matter, he' say, while rewinding an Ike Davis 440 foot bomb for his Exhibit A. Ojeda's worthless. Steve Olin would agree. Wow. Which post(s) get(s) your "Wow"?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 21 2011 10:00 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I'm guessing it's the one that goes for the accidental-manslaughter punchline.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 21 2011 10:36 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I'm guessing it's the one that goes for the accidental-manslaughter punchline. Yeah, me too. He was the best pitcher on the best Mets team ever. So worthless he ain't, in my book. But jeez, have you been following Bobby O. on the Citi Field dimensions? All season long, he's been practically girly-manning, with Rob Dibble-like insights, anyone who dared to even think about moving in the fences. According to Bobby O, dimensions don't matter. It's all the same, whether centerfield is 390 or 800 feet away. Bobby O is now squarely in Phil Mushnick territory with his phony about-face.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 21 2011 10:45 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Yeah... I try not to follow Bobby O, most times. It makes my head hurt less.

HahnSolo Sep 22 2011 06:44 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Yeah, it was the Steve Olin mention.

Edgy MD Sep 22 2011 07:52 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Guys, I'd like to talk to some of you about what you'll be seeing next year. Jason, you can join us too if you want. Mets Dream About Next Year and Alterations to Citi Field The Mets front office is talking about making Citi Field more friendly to hitters. (Seth Wenig/Associated Press) By ANDREW KEH Published: September 21, 2011 ST. LOUIS — One day after General Manager Sandy Alderson provided reporters with the clearest indication to date that the Mets would make significant changes to the dimensions at Citi Field, he began working on enlightening the men who will play there next season. Alderson took a group of players aside before their game against the St. Louis Cardinals on Wednesday night and gave something of an informal presentation, explaining the various options the front office had as it considered altering the park. Their comments overflowed with qualifying language, but as a group the players said they would welcome any changes that would make Citi Field more closely resemble the other ballparks in the league. Hours later, the Mets took the field at Busch Stadium — which Alderson and some players singled out Wednesday afternoon as a “fair-playing” park — and fell for the second straight night against the Cardinals, 6-5. More distressing than the result, though, was the sight of Lucas Duda crashing into the outfield wall in the first inning and leaving the game two innings later with dizziness. “I feel good right now,” Duda said after the game. He said he was examined by a doctor, who said a concussion was unlikely. Manager Terry Collins, who has witnessed an almost endless string of injuries this season, sounded cautious. “We’ll see how he is in the morning,” Collins said. Duda, a power-hitting rookie who has blossomed at the plate, is one of the players who would benefit from a structural change at Citi Field. “I think any time you talk about making a park more hitter friendly, the hitters are going to be on board with that,” David Wright said. “It’s nice to have a front office that recognizes the situation and tries to correct it. That’s obviously greatly appreciated.” Wright has become something of a human rallying cry for those pushing for change. After producing remarkably consistent numbers at the start of his career, his statistics worsened after the team moved from Shea Stadium to Citi Field in 2009. Wright has remained diplomatic in discussing Citi Field’s dimensions, but he recently began to reveal hints of frustration about them. On Wednesday, he was more open still about how the stadium had influenced his play. “I think that one of the things that played to my strengths at Shea was being able to drive the ball to right-center, and you really got to hit it at Citi Field to get it out there,” Wright said. “I think that when I got to Citi Field, and I don’t know if it was just the park or wanting to become a better all-around hitter, but I focused more on trying to become a better pull hitter.” Of the possible alterations, Wright said: “It’s obviously welcome, because I’m not great at pulling the ball with a lot of power. Most of my power comes from gap to gap. If they change the dimensions as it’s been hinted, I don’t think that could do anything but help my strengths.” Alderson and his staff have pored through copious amounts of data, culled from three years of the play at the stadium, to determine what changes might be most beneficial for the team. He presented those numbers and an array of alterations to a group of Mets players Wednesday. “I think it’s considerate,” R. A. Dickey said of Alderson’s decision to approach the players. “The thing to remember is that nothing’s for certain yet, and in our conversation he was clear on that, that there’s been no level of detail that’s been unanimous.” Alderson said the team would decide by next month what changes would be made. He said that the Mo’s Zone, an awkward and cavernous cut-out in the right-field fence, could easily be normalized and moved closer to home plate. Alderson has implied, too, that the 16-foot wall in left-center field, which has prevented numerous balls hit by Wright and teammates like Jason Bay from becoming home runs, would almost certainly be halved. “If you can go out there and be rewarded for hitting a ball well, that’s ideal for any situation,” Wright said. “There are some places in our ballpark that are a little, I guess, unfair at this point.” The issue that remains most unclear is whether the team will add a secondary fence in left field in front of the original one. The Mets can look to changes made by the Detroit Tigers at Comerica Park. That stadium, like Citi Field, was derided as a nightmare for power hitters when it opened in 2000. Before the 2003 season, the team installed a second fence 25 feet closer to home plate than the original one, and placed a bullpen area there. If the Mets make a similar decision, Alderson said, they are unlikely to have that much space to work with, meaning they could install a row or two of seats in the gap or perhaps install a grass-covered berm. Aesthetic concerns, he said, would take priority in that decision. The specifics, it was clear, remain uncertain. But that did not stop the Mets on Wednesday from voicing their support. “There’s certainly somewhat of a psychological barrier now when you play at Citi Field,” Collins said. Also: Draw Your Own Citi Field Blueprints

metirish Sep 22 2011 07:56 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I want to reiterate for David Wright that he is not in any way canvassing for changes , he's not that type of guy.

Edgy MD Sep 22 2011 08:05 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

David Wright is so busy trying to be the type of guy he thinks he's supposed to be, he doesn't know if he's coming or going.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 22 2011 08:12 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: David Wright is so busy trying to be the type of guy he thinks he's supposed to be, he doesn't know if he's coming or going. I blame it on Citi Field's' dimensions. And the stupid Dodgers' rotunda. Not necessarily in that order.

Ceetar Sep 22 2011 08:13 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: David Wright is so busy trying to be the type of guy he thinks he's supposed to be, he doesn't know if he's coming or going. apt description. We need to win him a title so he can be whoever he wants and the media can portray him as the guy he's supposed to be.

Edgy MD Sep 22 2011 08:38 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy DC wrote: David Wright is so busy trying to be the type of guy he thinks he's supposed to be, he doesn't know if he's coming or going. I blame it on Citi Field's' dimensions. And the stupid Dodgers' rotunda. Not necessarily in that order. I blame it on David Wright.

Ceetar Sep 22 2011 08:44 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: Edgy DC wrote: David Wright is so busy trying to be the type of guy he thinks he's supposed to be, he doesn't know if he's coming or going. I blame it on Citi Field's' dimensions. And the stupid Dodgers' rotunda. Not necessarily in that order. I blame it on David Wright. I'll blame Adam Rubin, as long as we're blaming guys. Or should I go Phil Mushnick?

HahnSolo Sep 22 2011 08:47 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Edgy DC wrote: David Wright is so busy trying to be the type of guy he thinks he's supposed to be, he doesn't know if he's coming or going. I blame it on Citi Field's' dimensions. And the stupid Dodgers' rotunda. Not necessarily in that order. I thought for sure you'd blame Jeff first.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 22 2011 08:48 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: David Wright is so busy trying to be the type of guy he thinks he's supposed to be, he doesn't know if he's coming or going. This is so right and true that David Wright is trying to find a more positive version of this to trot out at postgame interviews when asked how he feels.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 22 2011 10:04 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

He really tries hard to be Cal Ripken, doesn't he?

Centerfield Sep 22 2011 10:09 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

If the biggest criticism of our homegrown superstar is that he's an all around swell guy, give me that any day of the week. He could sulk. He could openly complain. He could hint to ownership that if the fences aren't brought in and some protection in the lineup isn't provided he's bolting when his contract is up. Instead, he stays out of trouble and wants to be a Met for life.

Edgy MD Sep 22 2011 10:11 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

The Thing wrote: He really tries hard to be Cal Ripken, doesn't he? More like Derek Jeter, I'm afraid. But really... “I think that when I got to Citi Field, and I don’t know if it was just the park or wanting to become a better all-around hitter, but I focused more on trying to become a better pull hitter.” You don't know why you consciously changed your approach after a pair of top-ten-MVP-voting season? Come on.

Ceetar Sep 22 2011 10:16 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: The Thing wrote: He really tries hard to be Cal Ripken, doesn't he? More like Derek Jeter, I'm afraid. But really... “I think that when I got to Citi Field, and I don’t know if it was just the park or wanting to become a better all-around hitter, but I focused more on trying to become a better pull hitter.” You don't know why you consciously changed your approach after a pair of top-ten-MVP-voting season? Come on. Especially since he repeatedly made claims that he wasn't changing his approach throughout most of 2009 and 2010. Also, most of his home runs were to the pull field anyway.

Vic Sage Sep 22 2011 02:37 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Centerfield wrote: If the biggest criticism of our homegrown superstar is that he's an all around swell guy, give me that any day of the week. He could sulk. He could openly complain. He could hint to ownership that if the fences aren't brought in and some protection in the lineup isn't provided he's bolting when his contract is up. Instead, he stays out of trouble and wants to be a Met for life. this. exactly this.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 22 2011 02:53 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I agree. I also think it's okay to gently mock him for this, but with affection, not derision.

Edgy MD Sep 22 2011 02:55 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I don't think anyone said anything to suggest we don't want him given to us. (Although maybe Ashie has in another thread.)

G-Fafif Sep 22 2011 03:09 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Benjamin Grimm wrote: He really tries hard to be Cal Ripken, doesn't he? I'm pretty sure David stays in the same hotel as his teammates.

Ashie62 Sep 22 2011 05:42 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: I don't think anyone said anything to suggest we don't want him given to us. (Although maybe Ashie has in another thread.) What you talkin about Willis?

Edgy MD Sep 22 2011 06:24 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Just thought maybe. You've called on many a tenure to end.

Ashie62 Sep 22 2011 06:51 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I don't remember but that sounds like me..

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 22 2011 07:12 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

G-Fafif wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: He really tries hard to be Cal Ripken, doesn't he? I'm pretty sure David stays in the same hotel as his teammates. Hey! I humorlessly resemble that remark!

batmagadanleadoff Sep 23 2011 09:17 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Stuffing the Mets’ Suggestion Box By JIM LUTTRELL The New York Mets After Mets General Manager Sandy Alderson made it clear there would be changes to Citi Field this off-season, readers had plenty of ideas when the Bats blog asked for suggested alterations to the ballpark that could put the Mets back on the winning path. Somewhat surprisingly, a good number of readers did not want to make any changes to three-year-old Citi Field. “Don’t change the park to suit the team – change the team to suit the park!” wrote JTA from Brookline, Mass. “The Mets have a crop of talented young arms on their way up. Leave the dimensions alone and rebuild the rest of the team around pitching, speed and defense.” While some readers wanted the changes to start with ownership, the current players drew the ire of just as many fans. “Mets have the 23rd worst ERA in M.L.B. this year … in a pitcher’s ballpark!!!” wrote MH from New Jersey. “If they shrink the field, I can’t wait to see what their E.R.A. will be next year. (Hunch: They probably will topple a M.L.B. record!) Most M.L.B. organizations design a team to fit a stadium, not vice-versa.” Chrispy from Brooklyn said: “Can I draw some better players onto this new field? Or maybe a tee that our existing subpar players can hit the ball off of? Citi Field is the only thing that’s NOT wrong with this organization.” Of course, those who were inspired to try their hand at a new-look ballpark varied in the seriousness of their approaches. Randy Medina put his brain to work for his Web site readtheapple.com and shared with Bats readers the rendering below. On the left, Medina prescribes an eight-foot wall be erected in front of the Great Wall of Flushing, creating a small new section. “The seats in this section are bar stool seats modeled after Fenway’s first row of monster seats,” he wrote. “The seating ends just before the hangar door so that it can still function. This also leaves outfielders a nice amount of space in the left-center-field gap where they can take an unobstructed shot at bringing back a homer.” On the right, Medina designed a fence for the Mo’s Zone that creates a picnic pavilion for Mo Zone guests “with either picnic tables or some kind of bleacher seating.” GD definitely thought outside the box for his design, below. Let’s let him tell it: “This design, seemingly controversial, will allow the Mets to greatly increase the number of home runs since they are the most exciting aspect of the game. Fifteen-foot-tall walls 200 feet from home plate will radically change Citi Field’s perception as a pitcher’s park. Ground balls and bunts will likely become nonfactors since the infield can now play in on the grass rather than all the way out by the bags. Additionally, pitchers can greatly lower their B.A.B.I.P.s while perhaps sacrificing their HR/9. It all evens out, however, because of dingers! The grass seating will also greatly increase capacity at no increase in cost.” Alexander Putelo looked for compromise: “My objective was not to remove all of the quirkiness that is Citi Field plus keeping it fair for both pitchers and hitters,” he wrote. “In left field, down the line the dimensions do not change, but as you move from the power alley toward center field, I have moved the fence 10 feet closer and lowered it to 10’ 10?. This will be a clear fence so that behind this new area, S.R.O. or picnic-type tickets can be sold. “Moving along the wall toward right field, I have not changed the dimensions until you get to the Mo Zone. At this point, after jutting out a couple feet, I straighten out the fence to be even with the wall down the right-field line. This new fence will also be clear to allow the Mo Zone patrons to move out onto the old playing surface.” A reader who called himself Trogdor wanted to give to the Mets owner Fred Wilpon what some fans think he wanted all along [below]. Jeff H. wanted to bring a little Euro flair to Citi Field while solving on-field and off-field problems (below). He wrote, “A significant percentage of the left-field seats presently feature an obstructed view of left field. Simply lowering the height of the fence will only exacerbate the problem, so it affects all of the left field seats. “I have extended the left-field stands further onto the field by two rows. This will move the distance of the wall by 6 to 8 feet and lower the height of the fence by at least 2 feet. This solves two problems at once: It renders a pitcher’s park more neutral and it will also cause a greater portion of the playing field to be visible from the seats. “While we have the tools out, I have also changed the color of the fence, as well of the seats, to Mets blue. I have spelled out ‘Mets’ across the seats in a design prevalent in European soccer stadiums but rare in baseball. Millions of people fly over Citi Field every year. Why not advertise something other than Citicorp?” Of course, a number of readers all agreed on the “if it’s not broke, don’t fix it” model. It seems that’s a little late, though: http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/2 ... stion-box/

Ashie62 Sep 24 2011 10:30 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

The changes will not be subtle and meant to appeal to fans and potential free agents. [url]http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2011/09/mets_likely_to_move_citi_field.html

Edgy MD Sep 24 2011 10:36 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

A submission from Trogdor?

Benjamin Grimm Oct 21 2011 06:17 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Source: Citi Field changes on tap By Adam Rubin ESPNNewYork.com Substantial dimension changes to Citi Field will be announced after the World Series, in an effort to make the 3-year-old ballpark more hitter-friendly, a team official confirmed. Citi Field allowed 1.33 homers per game last season, which ranked 14th among 16 National League ballparks, ahead of only San Francisco's AT&T Park (1.00) and San Diego's Petco Park (1.23). New York Mets general manager Sandy Alderson said last month that the intention was to make Citi Field more neutral -- not to tilt the balance in favor of hitters. Alderson added at the time that offense sells. And the Mets need to fill seats, having experienced three straight seasons of declining attendance. "We're not looking for an advantage with respect to home runs versus visitors' home runs," Alderson said last month. "At the same time, I think there is some sense that the park is a little more overwhelming to a team that spends half its time there as opposed to a team that comes in for three games and doesn't really have to alter an approach or think about it too much and leaves." The 16-foot wall in left field will remain because it is structural, but a new 8-foot wall will be erected in front of it, a team source said. The new left-field wall will not be constructed exactly parallel to the old wall. That would make it too close down the left-field line. Instead, a more modest reduction in depth will occur at the left-field foul pole, with a wider gap between the new and old walls in left-center. Additional seating is expected to be added between the new and old walls, although there cannot be the same number of rows added throughout that area because of the different space between the walls in the corner versus in left-center. In right field, where the "Mo's Zone" nook currently exists, the fencing will be moved closer to eradicate that crevice. A dramatic change will occur in right-center, which had measured 415 feet from home plate. The new depth is expected to be 390 feet -- a 25-foot reduction. That should particularly benefit third baseman David Wright, whose natural power is to right-center.

Edgy MD Oct 21 2011 06:30 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

David Wright better be thankful. Like, sign him to an extension the same day as the announcement.

Ceetar Oct 21 2011 09:13 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

good job by Rubin, repeating the exact same information that was rumored a month ago, and misrepresenting where Wright hits his home runs.

Ashie62 Oct 21 2011 10:29 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Who want seats in the crevice?

Edgy MD Oct 21 2011 10:33 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Wright has shown plenty of power to right center in past years. I don't see how that's misrepresentation.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 22 2011 12:43 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Also, last month was "may happen," and this announcement is "will happen." Also also... BEHIND YOU! ADAM RUBIN IS LOBBY TO STAB YOU!

Benjamin Grimm Oct 22 2011 05:00 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I think this is new info: The new left-field wall will not be constructed exactly parallel to the old wall. That would make it too close down the left-field line. Instead, a more modest reduction in depth will occur at the left-field foul pole, with a wider gap between the new and old walls in left-center. And the specific measurement of 390 feet is also new.

Frayed Knot Oct 22 2011 07:13 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ceetar wrote: good job by Rubin, repeating the exact same information that was rumored a month ago, and misrepresenting where Wright hits his home runs. Yeah, you're right. He should have ignored this info entirely and not said anything.

Ceetar Oct 22 2011 07:53 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think this is new info: The new left-field wall will not be constructed exactly parallel to the old wall. That would make it too close down the left-field line. Instead, a more modest reduction in depth will occur at the left-field foul pole, with a wider gap between the new and old walls in left-center. And the specific measurement of 390 feet is also new. not new. Sandy said that in the original interview, that they wouldn't bring in LF corner 8feet by the poles. the 'most power' to right center is the misrepresentation. most of his power is to left. all _people_'s power is mostly to pull.

Edgy MD Oct 22 2011 07:57 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I don't know why you're putting that in quotes. He didn't write "most power."

Ceetar Oct 22 2011 07:59 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: I don't know why you're putting that in quotes. He didn't write "most power." sorry, in a hurry. he wrote "Natural" power, which is even more of a misrepresentation of how power hitters/hits work. Also, he's merely repeating what Lennon/others tweeted/posted the day before, with an air of "Well, I confirmed it with MY guy, so now we really know it's true"

Benjamin Grimm Oct 22 2011 08:02 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

So you're getting on Rubin for posting stuff that we've known about for months, yet there must be something new here, otherwise Lennon and others, as you say, wouldn't have tweeted it yesterday. And if it's worth reporting by them, why shouldn't Rubin report it too? This thread is about the changes to Citi Field, not your peevishness towards Adam Rubin.

Edgy MD Oct 22 2011 08:15 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ceetar wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I don't know why you're putting that in quotes. He didn't write "most power." sorry, in a hurry. he wrote "Natural" power, which is even more of a misrepresentation of how power hitters/hits work. No, it isn't.

Ceetar Oct 22 2011 08:18 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

The changes to left field will result in more home runs for Wright than the change to RCF.

Edgy MD Oct 22 2011 08:21 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Maybe. I don't know. That won't necessarily make his point incorrect.

Ashie62 Oct 22 2011 10:20 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I don't give a shit who said what, but am happy that the damned Modell's dingy is going to be moved in.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 22 2011 01:34 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

While I won't miss the Mo Zone either, I think I'll be most glad to see the end of the orange home run line that takes an arbitrary 90-degree turn.

Edgy MD Oct 22 2011 01:46 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Yeah. Take a lesson from the Astros. Too often you start off on the road to Quirky and end up in Goofy insetad.

Frayed Knot Oct 22 2011 02:04 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Benjamin Grimm wrote: While I won't miss the Mo Zone either, I think I'll be most glad to see the end of the orange home run line that takes an arbitrary 90-degree turn. Yeah, given the choice between changing the LF area or the RF I'd go with the LF first. I have no particular beef with a far wall or a high wall - the problem with that one is that it's both. Plus I hate home-run lines, those are just asking for trouble.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 22 2011 02:14 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

With the elimination of the Mo Zone, will the Pepsi Porch still overhang the playing field?

Fman99 Oct 22 2011 05:29 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Move em all in, I've been to Citi Field four times and I've yet to see the apple pop up aside from pre-game.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 22 2011 06:44 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Looking forward to the new $ponsored gimmick for the extra seats they jam between the old and new fences. Come and sit in the Wal-Mart Wall-Gap! Always the best seat in the house. Always! ($125 for Bronze games, 150 for Silver, $114.98 for Cubic Zirconium)

batmagadanleadoff Oct 22 2011 08:37 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Source: Citi Field changes on tap By Adam Rubin ESPNNewYork.com "... Alderson added at the time that offense sells. And the Mets need to fill seats, having experienced three straight seasons of declining attendance. "We're not looking for an advantage with respect to home runs versus visitors' home runs," Alderson said last month. " I'm not buying into Alderson's publicly stated reasons for changing Citi Field's dimensions. The organization, most likely, will move the fences in because it now believes that the changes will provide the Mets with a tactical game advantage over the present dimensions. And good for them. They're supposed to be looking for whatever edge they can get. But this idea that they're moving in the fences for us --- the fans ---is classic corporate speak where the organization does something primarily for their own self-interest and then claims that it was done mainly for us. Ceetar wrote: the 'most power' to right center is the misrepresentation. most of his power is to left. all _people_'s power is mostly to pull. I don't know for sure where Wright presently hits most of his HR's, or what side of Citi Field is predominantly robbing Wright of HR's, but I wonder if you're confusing "power" with "tendencies". That a batter, all things being equal, can hit the ball farther when he pulls it, doesn't preclude that same batter from displaying the tendency to hit the ball to the opposite field with greater frequency than to the pull field. In any event, I'm positive that the Mets never specifically confirmed that they would move in their fences until the last day or two.

Edgy MD Oct 22 2011 09:03 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

The point, and it should be obvious, is that Wright's marginal power is hedged to an uncertain degree with difficult power alleys in right and left center. While a typical player may indeed pull most of his homeruns, Wright --- like Strawberry (to a lesser extent) and Piazza before him --- had more success than most distributing them around the park. Here are Wright's homeruns from 2007 --- perhaps his best year, despite going all of April with no homers, four doubles, a triple, and six RBI. Date Opp Ballpark Field 1-May FLA Shea Stadium RCF 3-May ARI Bank One Ballpark RF 11-May MIL Shea Stadium LCF 14-May CHC Shea Stadium RF 19-May NYY Shea Stadium LF 19-May NYY Shea Stadium LCF 20-May NYY Shea Stadium RF 23-May ATL Turner Field LF 7-Jun PHI Shea Stadium LCF 8-Jun DET Comerica Park RF 9-Jun DET Comerica Park LF 10-Jun DET Comerica Park RF 27-Jun STL Shea Stadium RCF 30-Jun PHI Citizens Bank Park LCF 4-Jul COL Coors Field LCF 7-Jul HOU Minute Maid Park LF 18-Jul SDP PetCo Park LF 21-Jul LAD Dodger Stadium CF 2-Aug MIL Miller Park RCF 9-Aug ATL Shea Stadium LCF 11-Aug FLA Shea Stadium LF 11-Aug FLA Shea Stadium LCF 24-Aug LAD Shea Stadium RF 29-Aug PHI Bank One Ballpark CF 2-Sep ATL Turner Field CF 3-Sep CIN The Great American Ballpark RF 6-Sep PHI Shea Stadium RF 8-Sep HOU Shea Stadium RCF 10-Sep ATL Shea Stadium LCF 14-Sep PHI Shea Stadium LF Field Total Kabooms LF 7 LCF 8 CF 3 RCF 4 RF 8

Edgy MD Oct 22 2011 09:19 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

And a similar survey of this year's homers shows he's gone from hitting 50% of his homeruns from centerfield to the rightfield line to hitting 28.6% there. Date Opp Ballpark Field 24-Apr ARI CitiField LF 24-Apr ARI CitiField LF 16-Sep ATL Turner Field LF 16-Sep ATL Turner Field LCF 2-Apr FLA Sun Life Stadium RF 11-Apr COL CitiField RF 21-Apr HOU CitiField LCF 13-May HOU Minute Maid Park LF 24-Jun FLA Sun Life Stadium LF 27-Jun CIN The Great American Ballpark CF 8-Aug SDP CitiField LCF 17-Aug SDP PetCo Park LCF 24-Aug PHA Citizen's Bank Park RF 2-Sep WAS Nationals Park LCF Field Field LF 5 LCF 5 CF 1 RCF 0 RF 3

dgwphotography Oct 23 2011 09:56 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

That can also speak of a change in approach due to the dimensions in right field...

smg58 Oct 23 2011 10:36 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I've never bought into the argument that offense sells. I don't have a problem with being honest and saying that there's a concern that free agent hitters won't want to come here. At least I totally understand that reason. I wouldn't frame the argument in terms of any current Met players, though. The Mets have been coming up woefully short in the power department both at home and on the road, and the possibly exists that the people we've been expecting more home runs from just aren't that good anymore. I think it's incredibly naive to think that adjusting a wall will make certain players' lost ability miraculously reappear.

Edgy MD Oct 23 2011 12:18 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

dgwphotography wrote: That can also speak of a change in approach due to the dimensions in right field... Certainly. But whatever the factors, his output has been negatively affected. I'm not presenting this data to argue for this change. I'm saying it's a pretty well supported point that his homerun power the other way had been one of the things that had distinguished him, and that it's not been there as much.

dgwphotography Oct 23 2011 12:24 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: dgwphotography wrote: That can also speak of a change in approach due to the dimensions in right field... Certainly. But whatever the factors, his output has been negatively affected. I'm not presenting this data to argue for this change. I'm saying it's a pretty well supported point that his homerun power the other way had been one of the things that had distinguished him, and that it's not been there as much. I completely agree with all of these points.

HahnSolo Oct 31 2011 11:08 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

[url]http://www.metsblog.com/2011/10/31/mets-announce-changes-to-citi-field-dimensions/

Centerfield Oct 31 2011 11:10 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Well done. Now re-sign Reyes.

Ceetar Oct 31 2011 11:22 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Centerfield wrote: Well done. Now re-sign Reyes. This will be the response to everything until it happens. "Mets release partial plan info" "Well done. Now re-sign Reyes."

Edgy MD Oct 31 2011 11:23 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Holy crap. A blue wall.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 31 2011 11:24 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

This is supposed to be the new shit: Based on what the team is 'saying,' using those plot points, this is basically how the wall would run (not curved) on a direct line. by Matthew Cerrone 10:05 AM Does that mean the wall will be curved or not? Who here speaks Cerrone?

Edgy MD Oct 31 2011 11:29 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Is the team not actually "saying" things but addressing the media through some electronic device.

Ceetar Oct 31 2011 11:31 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

i don't think the wall will be curved, no.

metsguyinmichigan Oct 31 2011 01:20 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

BLUE WALLS!!! October 31, 2011 – The New York Mets today announced they are moving in portions of the outfield wall at Citi Field as much as 12 feet and lowering the height of the home run line to 8 feet throughout the outfield. The outfield wall will become blue in 2012 concurrent with the Mets 50th Anniversary season. The home run line and distance markers will remain orange. The Mets will erect a new wall in leftfield starting between the New Era and Caesars signs and angled to the Citi sign in left-centerfield (see renderings). The new wall will be closer to home plate by approximately 4 feet in leftfield and up to approximately 12 feet in deep left-centerfield. A new wall will start in right-centerfield and extend toward the bullpen, and be as much as approximately 11 feet closer to home plate. The fence in front of the Mo's Zone/Modell's Clubhouse will move in approximately 10 feet. The distances from home plate to centerfield and the foul poles in leftfield and rightfield will remain the same. "We wanted to make Citi Field fair to both pitchers and hitters," said Mets General Manager Sandy Alderson. "After conferring with Sandy and all members of his staff, Ownership concurred with the recommendation to change the dimensions at Citi Field," said Mets COO Jeff Wilpon. "We decided to change the outfield wall from black to Mets blue, which many of our fans have wanted." As a result of moving the walls in, the Mets will create a unique seating section in leftfield between the new and existing wall to accommodate about 100 fans. The club will also expand the Modell's Clubhouse in rightfield to incorporate an outdoor seating area for approximately 40 additional fans.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 31 2011 01:49 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Citi 2.0 vs. Shea. Citi: Shea: Right field @ Citi's still gonna be a lil funky, huh.

Edgy MD Oct 31 2011 01:54 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

We still get a stripe down the line in left. They ought to bring it in another 30 inches just cuz.

metirish Oct 31 2011 01:54 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

What's up with left of CF getting bigger by a foot?

batmagadanleadoff Oct 31 2011 02:13 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Jeff Wilpon ... also maintained that the original impetus to design such a big playing field came from the previous Mets regime headed by Omar Minaya, who was the general manager from the 2005 season through 2010, when he was dismissed. He said the decision to make the changes came from Alderson. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/sport ... field.html

Ceetar Oct 31 2011 02:16 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Good that Jeff's on the "Blame Omar, he must've done it" bandwagon. There will still be a line in dead-center too. It's fine. Shea used to have a line too.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 31 2011 02:27 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Good that Jeff's on the "Blame Omar, he must've done it" bandwagon. I wonder how that quote was elicited. Press: Jeff, do you feel any personal regret over the re-design of Citi Field's walls, being that you implemented the original dimensions? JW: The original impetus to design such a big playing field came from the previous Mets regime headed by Omar Minaya, who was the general manager from the 2005 season through 2010. Press: But you owned the team in 2005. You owned the regime. Didn't you have final approval over the design? And Wasn't Minaya merely implementing your vision? JW: The original impetus to design such a big playing field came from the previous Mets regime headed by Omar Minaya, who was the general manager from the 2005 season through 2010. Press: Is today Monday? JW: The original impetus to design such a big playing field came from the previous Mets regime headed by Omar Minaya, who was the general manager from the 2005 season through 2010.

metirish Oct 31 2011 02:35 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

The Wilson's are blameless in everything, what a piece of shit Jefferey is.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 31 2011 02:39 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Saul Katz announces that large dimensions will continue to exist in his ballsack.

Edgy MD Oct 31 2011 03:03 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

The new Mo Zone. It's now the Shmoe Zone, apparently. Only white people allowed.

Edgy MD Oct 31 2011 03:07 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Leftfield seats: Won't that fence extension interfere with attempted Endys?

G-Fafif Oct 31 2011 05:29 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

"You'd be lying if you said you enjoyed hitting at Citi Field," Wright said. "I don't think anybody would say they enjoyed hitting in such a pitchers' ballpark. I don't think we ever looked at the field and it intimidated us. But obviously it's frustrating at times when you hit a ball good and you don't see the results that you want to see." Polite Wrightspeak for "Oh my fucking god, I so fucking hated hitting in that fucking canyon. It's about fucking time they fixed it. Maybe Bay will get his head out of his ass, too, while we're at it."

Ceetar Oct 31 2011 07:35 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

G-Fafif wrote: "You'd be lying if you said you enjoyed hitting at Citi Field," Wright said. "I don't think anybody would say they enjoyed hitting in such a pitchers' ballpark. I don't think we ever looked at the field and it intimidated us. But obviously it's frustrating at times when you hit a ball good and you don't see the results that you want to see." Polite Wrightspeak for "Oh my fucking god, I so fucking hated hitting in that fucking canyon. It's about fucking time they fixed it. Maybe Bay will get his head out of his ass, too, while we're at it." I'm kind of tired of Wright whining about this issue. Whether or not it significantly impacts offense, I hope Wright smacks a couple out early in April so he can think it made a huge difference. I wonder if they've adjusted the Citi Field replica field down in Port St. Lucie.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 01 2011 08:35 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Here you can really see the difference between hitting above that red Modell's sign and clearing the top of the new fence.

Edgy MD Nov 01 2011 09:00 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I said this above, but isn't that railing --- unless I'm misreading the depth --- going to interfere with players reaching over the fence.

Ceetar Nov 01 2011 09:02 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: I said this above, but isn't that railing --- unless I'm misreading the depth --- going to interfere with players reaching over the fence. in left, sure. But not sure that was ever a concern.

Edgy MD Nov 01 2011 09:06 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Well, I'm concerned now.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 01 2011 09:10 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

The rail seems to be set back a bit behind the orange line. I think an outfielder will be able to steal a homer, but he might bump his glove on the railing. I take it, though, that you're talking about the super-dramatic catch where the outfielder hoists himself onto the fence and then reaches deep into home run territory to make the catch. It does look like the railing would prevent that.

Edgy MD Nov 01 2011 09:16 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Well, eight feet is pretty climbable for an athletic outfielder. I picture a guy running and climbing and jumping full bore and slamming his glove against the rail, or a ball ricocheting off the rail and hitting an outfielder in the head who was trying to make a play. I'd hope it's set back at least two and half feet, but it looks closer to about 12 inches. And it seems to me guys who pull back homers tend to reach more than 12 inches over the fence. Sufficient reach-over room is what I'm talking about. It can be achieved, to my thinking, but just building the walking sitting surface lower, so the rail is no higher than the level of the top of the outfield wall. But maybe it really isn't and I'm just misreading the perspective.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 01 2011 09:41 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Even Ramon Castro would be able to rob a would be HR off of an eight foot high wall. (For comparison's sake, a basketball rim is 10 feet off the ground). I'm guessing that the depth or thickness of the new walls won't interfere with HR robbing plays. Those renderings are just that -- renderings not based on official measurements.

G-Fafif Nov 01 2011 09:54 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Does extending the Mo's Zone inward negate the ersatz Tiger Stadium Pepsi Porch effect J. Wilpon so craved from his childhood summers in Michigan?

Ceetar Nov 01 2011 09:57 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

G-Fafif wrote: Does extending the Mo's Zone inward negate the ersatz Tiger Stadium Pepsi Porch effect J. Wilpon so craved from his childhood summers in Michigan? pretty much. might be a foot or so left. I was always kind of disappointed by it. I like the Porch but I always felt it needed to hang over another couple of feet.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 01 2011 10:06 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

G-Fafif wrote: Does extending the Mo's Zone inward negate the ersatz Tiger Stadium Pepsi Porch effect J. Wilpon so craved from his childhood summers in Michigan? I hope so. And it's gonna look Little Rascalish what with these piecemeal ramshackle extensions, changes and additions. This is what happens when you let some unqualified hack play Frank Lloyd Wright with his daddy's money. I'm just grateful that Fred Jr. merely summered in Detroit. Because otherwise we'd have what? An Al Kaline rotunda? And the two ugly scoreboards are too close to each other.

Centerfield Nov 01 2011 11:53 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: Well, eight feet is pretty climbable for an athletic outfielder. I picture a guy running and climbing and jumping full bore and slamming his glove against the rail, or a ball ricocheting off the rail and hitting an outfielder in the head who was trying to make a play. I'd hope it's set back at least two and half feet, but it looks closer to about 12 inches. And it seems to me guys who pull back homers tend to reach more than 12 inches over the fence. Sufficient reach-over room is what I'm talking about. It can be achieved, to my thinking, but just building the walking sitting surface lower, so the rail is no higher than the level of the top of the outfield wall. But maybe it really isn't and I'm just misreading the perspective. I'm with you Edgy. They need to move that railing back. Endy's entire arm was behind the fence in 2006.

Gwreck Nov 01 2011 12:10 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

The problem there is that they have the access tunnel in left-center field which means they can't lower the "floor" on which those new seats sit.

Edgy MD Nov 01 2011 12:30 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Well, that access tunnel can't be under the whole thing. It's not build yet. is this running end-to-end underneath the thing or perpendicular and intersecting?

Ceetar Nov 01 2011 12:56 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Ceetar Nov 01 2011 01:00 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Frayed Knot Nov 01 2011 01:03 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Mostly those new seats will probably generate them some more revenue. Not quite as much say as the 'Monster Seats' in Fenway but along those lines. Now they just have to come up with a catchy name for them. The 'Endy Boxes' maybe. Or how about; 'Jason's Bay'?

Edgy MD Nov 01 2011 01:47 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Well, those would appear to be more-or less perpendicular, so I would propose not putting any seats on top of them at all, and place the stairways over them. If there's a problem, yo, I'll solve it. Check out the beat while the DJ revolves it.

attgig Nov 01 2011 01:57 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Centerfield wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Well, eight feet is pretty climbable for an athletic outfielder. I picture a guy running and climbing and jumping full bore and slamming his glove against the rail, or a ball ricocheting off the rail and hitting an outfielder in the head who was trying to make a play. I'd hope it's set back at least two and half feet, but it looks closer to about 12 inches. And it seems to me guys who pull back homers tend to reach more than 12 inches over the fence. Sufficient reach-over room is what I'm talking about. It can be achieved, to my thinking, but just building the walking sitting surface lower, so the rail is no higher than the level of the top of the outfield wall. But maybe it really isn't and I'm just misreading the perspective. I'm with you Edgy. They need to move that railing back. Endy's entire arm was behind the fence in 2006. I can see some replays happening with that LF fence. ball hits the glove and glove hits the fence, and ball pops out. did it pop out of the glove and go back to the field, or did it touch the fence before coming back. just asking for problems...

Edgy MD Nov 06 2011 07:10 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

What's this I hear about the Mets bringing in their feces?

metsguyinmichigan Nov 06 2011 08:01 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

nefit?

Edgy MD Nov 06 2011 08:49 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

If there's a name, it'll undoubtedly be the Verizon Veranda or the Costco Cloister or the Bank One Balcony. You can take that to the bank. You can take that to Bank One, in fact.

Ceetar Nov 06 2011 08:54 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Edgy DC wrote: If there's a name, it'll undoubtedly be the Verizon Veranda or the Costco Cloister or the Bank One Balcony. You can take that to the bank. You can take that to Bank One, in fact. Anything that contributes to the #paytheman fund is okay in my book.

Ashie62 Nov 06 2011 09:48 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Even Ramon Castro would be able to rob a would be HR off of an eight foot high wall. (For comparison's sake, a basketball rim is 10 feet off the ground). I'm guessing that the depth or thickness of the new walls won't interfere with HR robbing plays. Those renderings are just that -- renderings not based on official measurements. I'd like it in another 10 feet with a 6 foot cyclone fence.

Edgy MD Mar 09 2012 02:13 PM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Blue:

batmagadanleadoff Aug 07 2012 07:52 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Shortening fences helping Mets offense; expect Padres, Mariners to do same Don't look now, but baseball's extreme pitcher's parks might be headed the way of flannel uniforms, Ladies' Day and, if not the Dodo bird, then at least George "Dodo" Armstrong (Philadelphia Athletics, 1946). The Padres are expected to move Petco Park's fences in this winter -- at the very least, in right field and in right-center. The Mariners internally are considering modifications to pitcher-friendly Safeco Field, though there are no indications yet that they will move to do so. The Mets did it this season at Citi Field and are thrilled with the results. "It's changed the mental attitude of our hitters, made it a far less of an issue," says Mets general manager Sandy Alderson, who, while CEO of the Padres from 2005-09, studied the same issue in San Diego and was moving toward significant changes there before he left. "It certainly hasn't been a topic of conversation since early in the season, which means it's probably gone pretty well." The Mets shortened the fences in left field, right-center and right field, most significantly in left field chopped the home-run line from 16 feet high to eight feet. The results, while noticeable, have not been outrageous -- which should hearten not only Mets pitchers, but those who oppose shortening the fences in San Diego and Seattle. Last year, surrendering an average of 1.33 home runs per game, CitiField ranked 14th in the National League. Only San Francisco's AT&T Park (1.00) and Petco Park (1.23) ranked lower. This year, Citi Field is surrendering an average of 1.90 homers per game, which ranks ninth in the NL. "The thing that helps out the most is, you go up there your first at-bat and you hit a ball 400 feet to left-center, right-center, and the guy catches it, all of a sudden you're frustrated," Mets All-Star third baseman David Wright says. "So the next at-bat, you try and hit the ball a little harder. "You see results in that first at-bat, you go into the second at-bat with a refreshed mind. You're confident. You're 1 for 1 going into your second at-bat. Baseball is so mental, it puts your mind at ease knowing, hey, if I go up and have a good at-bat, really step on one, I'm going to be rewarded." While Wright's home run totals haven't necessarily ballooned (16 in 105 games this season, 14 in 102 last year), his strikeout totals have dipped noticeably (75 through 105 games this year, 97 in 102 last year). The implementation of the plan at Citi Field is a distant cousin of an idea Alderson had been studying when he was in San Diego. "We made some modifications," at Petco Park, Alderson says. "They were modest, but they were modifications. There were larger, more significant changes we considered, but we were probably a year away from making a final decision. "In New York, it's worked out really well. Home run production has gone up, generally speaking we've got probably I'm going to say, 25 percent more home runs than we would have had otherwise. ... Overall production's gone up quite a bit. "I think it's a fair ballpark. It's still not an easy park to hit home runs, but it's much different than it was. I think it's worked out pretty well." Padres president Tom Garfinkel says that the club is still studying the issue, but he believes that the information himself, general manager Josh Byrnes and manager Bud Black are looking at is swaying them toward modifying Petco Park for 2013. "What the Mets did was instructive for us as well," Garfinkel says. "The part that's harder to measure is the psychology, how the players approach hitting and how the pitchers approach pitching." Hitters from Phil Nevin to Ryan Klesko to Ryan Ludwich have hated Petco Park from its inception. And though Black mostly has been successful in keeping his Padres from squawking about it, reminders are delivered almost nightly. Such as in an April game this season when, with Philadelphia in San Diego, Jimmy Rollins crushed a fly ball into deep right-center ... only to see it caught. As he returned to the bench, he looked into the Padres' dugout and said, "That's all I got, boys. That ball is 10 rows back in Philly." Part of the Padres' study is attempting to uncover any perilous unintended consequences before implementing any final decisions. One of the "modest modifications" Alderson made to the park before leaving, for example, was to move the right-center field fence in a few feet. But what the Padres have found that has done is reduce the number of triples, which has at times made things even more advantageous for pitchers. As new parks have opened over the past two decades, it has not been unprecedented for clubs to make adjustments on the fly. Before their fourth season in Comerica Park, the Tigers moved the left-field fence in to 370 feet, from 395. Some in the industry think the Marlins will wind up modifying their new park, where it takes a tremendous drive to knock a ball out in right-center. Part of why the Mets moved to dramatically alter the left-field fence this year -- both in height and distance -- is because their study found that in the three seasons from 2010-12, only nine opposite-field home runs had been hit by left-handers. And all of those were by opponents. "Now, I have a chance to hit one out over there," Mets lefty-swinging first baseman Ike Davis says. "Before, I didn't." Davis echoes Wright in that the changes have been a big boost psychologically for Mets hitters, even if it hasn't inflating their statistics to eye-popping numbers. "Your first at-bat, you hit a 410-foot fly ball that's caught, you're coming back to the dugout saying, 'Well, I'm 0 for 1 instead of 1 for 1 with an RBI," Davis says. "That changes everything. It changes your whole day. "You're only going to hit one or two balls hard on a good day." Padres third baseman Chase Headley sees that same type of effect happening if Padres executives modify Petco fences. "I think it would be a more enjoyable experience for fans to watch games," Headley says. "And I think it would be a much more fair place to play. As a player, that's all you can ask for. "I don't think it would change the dynamic of the stadium. I think it would still be a pitcher's park. Just less drastic." In six seasons, Headley, a lifelong Padre, is a .300 hitter on the road -- literally, he's at .300 on the nose right now -- and a .234 hitter in Petco Park. His career home/road splits: In 318 home games, Headley is hitting .234/.323/.345 with 20 home runs and 115 RBI. In 320 road games, he's at .300/.370/.450 with 31 home runs and 149 RBI. "I think it makes you a better hitter when you don't feel like you have to add a lot to hit a home run," Headley says. "It affects you not only having good at-bats, but in your swings at other pitches." Mets pitchers have pitched differently this season while working under Citi Field's new dimensions, but only in certain situations. "Late innings, the way you call games when it's a one- or two-run game," catcher Josh Thole says. "When it's late and close, you're more apt not to throw a fastball inside for a strike. "It's been a nice adjustment, I think. I know, offensively, we feel that we're one swing away in the late innings if we're down by one run. Last year, if we were down by three runs in the eighth inning, we were like, 'It's going to take six hits in a row.' " From Alderson's perch, he thinks Mets fans like the changes. "I think the fans who were familiar with Citi Field felt it was a little big," he says. "From the outset, there was a positive reaction to our decision to change the dimensions. And then it was just a question of how they actually turned out. "The other thing is, in addition to actually changing the dimensions, the changes don't look tacked on or temporary. They've been integrated into the overall architecture and feel of the ballpark. They've really turned out well from a construction and aesthetic standpoint. I think that's important as well." What could be one small step for the Padres -- and, if they decide to do the same, the Mariners -- could be one giant leap for their hitters. "I'm just now starting to figure my swing out," Reds outfielder Ryan Ludwick, whom the Padres dealt to Pittsburgh last July, was saying during a conversation in Dodger Stadium just before the All-Star break. "I'm hitting the ball the other way now. "When I got traded to Pittsburgh, I couldn't even hit the ball the other way during batting practice. That's how messed up my swing was. Now, I'm feeling awesome. Finally, I'm starting to feel like my normal self again." Since the All-Star break, Ludwick has knocked in 23 runs (third in the majors) and slammed seven home runs (tied for seventh). He is in need of a hitting psychologist no more. http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/1974 ... to-do-same

Centerfield Aug 07 2012 08:04 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

It's great to see the effect this has had on Wright. Maybe next year they can move in the fences another 100 feet and revive the career of Jason Bay.

MFS62 Aug 07 2012 08:45 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Oh SNAP! Later

smg58 Aug 07 2012 08:46 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

I would have thought that the general lack of power exhibited by the Mets this season would have dispelled any notion that the dimensions were the problem.

Ceetar Aug 07 2012 08:50 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Mets offense soaring from a 4.43 R/G last year to 4.49 this year! They could try the Phillies method too. The Phillies pushed back the walls after 2005 and scored 58 more runs.

Vic Sage Aug 07 2012 09:02 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Right, so Wright's turnaround this season, from a guy who BB/K rate at Shea was around 90/115, then went to 70/150 at CitiField, back to a pace of around 90/115 again this season, is purely coincidence? Really? That's your story? whatever, dudes. I wasn't expecting an explosion in HRs by changing the dimensions the way they did. They didn't make it a bandbox; they changed it from ridiculous to neutral. They made it a fairer park, which has helped our best hitter return to an approach at the plate that has made him the productive MVP candidate he was before he played his home games in yellowstone. why his .330/20HR pace, and the team's increased offense which hasn't been a big enough increase (despite losing Beltran and Reyes), has people clucking "i told you so" i have no idea. personally, i want my park to have as little impact on games as possible and wish all parks, no matter how quirky and interesting and individualized their design, to have a similarly neutral effect. let the games get decided by players, not architects, and lets build teams to win everywhere, not just at home.

Vic Sage Aug 07 2012 09:07 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Centerfield wrote: It's great to see the effect this has had on Wright. Maybe next year they can move in the fences another 100 feet and revive the career of Jason Bay. the only thing that could revive Bay's career is to move the fence so that he's on the other side of it.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 07 2012 09:11 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Wright was swinging harder during the Cavern era. He just admitted it. Not that he hadn't, more or less, before. Some of us suspected it. He was probably swinging earlier, too, to leverage his swing in an attempt to pull the ball more often. To compensate for the moronic park dimensions idiot Jeff imposed on all concerned. It's natural that Wright's BB's would've dropped and his K's would've increased with that approach.

Ceetar Aug 07 2012 09:16 AM Re: Poll: Citi Field Outfield Fences

Also factors in Wright's struggles: broken backs, concussions.