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McGwire, Roid Freak

Farmer Ted Jan 11 2010 01:26 PM

Finally admits to the juice. "Now that I have become the hitting coach for the St. Louis Cardinals, I have the chance to do something that I wish I was able to do five years ago. I never knew when, but I always knew this day would come. It's time for me to talk about the past and to confirm what people have suspected. I used steroids during my playing career and I apologize. I remember trying steroids very briefly in the 1989/1990 off season and then after I was injured in 1993, I used steroids again. I used them on occasion throughout the '90s, including during the 1998 season. I wish I had never touched steroids. It was foolish and it was a mistake. I truly apologize. Looking back, I wish I had never played during the steroid era. During the mid-'90s, I went on the DL seven times and missed 228 games over five years. I experienced a lot of injuries, including a ribcage strain, a torn left heel muscle, a stress fracture of the left heel, and a torn right heel muscle. It was definitely a miserable bunch of years and I told myself that steroids could help me recover faster. I thought they would help me heal and prevent injuries, too. I'm sure people will wonder if I could have hit all those home runs had I never taken steroids. I had good years when I didn't take any and I had bad years when I didn't take any. I had good years when I took steroids and I had bad years when I took steroids. But no matter what, I shouldn't have done it and for that I'm truly sorry. Baseball is really different now -- it's been cleaned up. The commissioner and the players' association implemented testing and they cracked down, and I'm glad they did. I'm grateful to the Cardinals for bringing me back to baseball. I want to say thank you to Cardinals owner Mr. DeWitt, to my GM, John Mozeliak, and to my manager, Tony La Russa. I can't wait to put the uniform on again and to be back on the field in front of the great fans in Saint Louis. I've always appreciated their support and I intend to earn it again, this time as hitting coach. I'm going to pour myself into this job and do everything I can to help the Cardinals hitters become the best players for years to come. After all this time, I want to come clean. I was not in a position to do that five years ago in my congressional testimony, but now I feel an obligation to discuss this and to answer questions about it. I'll do that, and then I just want to help my team."

Valadius Jan 11 2010 01:33 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

The truth of the matter is, we'll never know how many players were on steroids, but it's not like this is any kind of shock. And despite this, I'd still put him in the Hall of Fame, though I'd be holding my nose.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 11 2010 01:34 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

He also admitted he was full of shit when he hugged his son after hitting his record-breaking dinger. srsly, Though I don't think he seriously regrets it, that's probably about the most we can hope to get from an admission. It sucks and it changed things but that's the way they played the game.

TransMonk Jan 11 2010 01:36 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

It's about f'n time.

metsmarathon Jan 11 2010 01:41 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

wait... he was juicing?!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 11 2010 01:42 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

Coming clean, I'm thinking, is part of a two-step process to get him in the Hall. Second? Circumstances allowing, one pinch-hitting appearance this year... which will push back his "retirement clock" another five years, giving him more time to wait for a more sympathetic BBWAA.

Farmer Ted Jan 11 2010 01:42 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

He should give back all the money he made off his home run heroics while sporting band-aids on his arse, salary and endorsements. That's just me, Judge Wopner Ted.

themetfairy Jan 11 2010 01:47 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="Farmer Ted":1tafl5s7]He should give back all the money he made off his home run heroics while sporting band-aids on his arse, salary and endorsements. That's just me, Judge Wopner Ted.[/quote:1tafl5s7] I don't recall McGwire doing all that many commercials after the fact. What I do remember is that he could have let his contract expire after 1998, but instead picked up his option that had St. Louis paying him less than what he could have re-negotiated. I'm not making any excuses for the man. OTOH, I do feel that this is the case of a good person who made a bad choice; I'm not going to demonize him.

Kong76 Jan 11 2010 01:49 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

attgig Jan 11 2010 01:50 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

McGwire seemed like he tried to stay out of the spotlight as much as he could, and only cracked a smile around Sammy. anyways, it's about time, and it's not like he said anything so mindblowing. this will die pretty quick, but no amount of delay will keep this out of the baseball writers minds when it comes to hall of fame voting.

metsguyinmichigan Jan 11 2010 01:51 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

Plays the patented "Pettitte I was injured" card. It's a good day. Now we can endure the week of "I knew all along he was juicing" columns and then move on. Deal with the notion that all teams but the Mets had juicers -- I'm entitled to my little fantasy -- and look forward.

Edgy DC Jan 11 2010 01:57 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

There's more he can tell. Who else was using? Where did he get it from? Did his team or the league assist him in any way? (McGwire's brother says the league did.)

holychicken Jan 11 2010 02:09 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1iz688ve]Though I don't think he seriously regrets it,[/quote:1iz688ve] This is what bothers me about these types of apologies. I know he "has" to say it because if he said "Am I glad? Fuck yeah! Doing so made me millions of dollars" he would be tied up and beaten. But it just makes me wonder what else about this apology is just what "needs" to be said and what he truly means.

Edgy DC Jan 11 2010 02:17 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

I'm exactly as sorry as I need to be to reverse the course of my declining legacy --- particularly as regarding my Hall of Fame chances. No more, no less. While acknowleding my usage and my subsequent coersed penitence, I don't acknowledge that performancing enhancing drugs helped me hit a single homerun. You have any questions? Fuck you. That's your answer.

Swan Swan H Jan 11 2010 02:33 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

"Not in a position to do that?" If seated in front of a Congressional inquiry is not the position to do that, what the fuck is?

Centerfield Jan 11 2010 02:34 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

An apology to the Maris family would have been nice.

metsguyinmichigan Jan 11 2010 02:49 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

Bud says...... Baseball Commissioner Allan H. (Bud) Selig issued the following statement today regarding Mark McGwire's comments about the use of performance-enhancing substances: "I am pleased that Mark McGwire has confronted his use of performance-enhancing substances as a player. Being truthful is always the correct course of action, which is why I had commissioned Senator George Mitchell to conduct his investigation. This statement of contrition, I believe, will make Mark's reentry into the game much smoother and easier. "While we, along with all sports organizations, continue to battle the use of such drugs and continue the intensive search for a valid test for HGH, I believe our drug testing program is the toughest and most effective in professional sports. Last year in the Major Leagues, we had only two positives for steroids out of 3,722 tests. We have banned and aggressively test for amphetamines, substances which club doctors and professional athletic trainers have told me had presented serious problems for the sport for decades. Our minor league program will begin its 10th year in 2010. We conducted 8,995 tests in the minor leagues last year of which less than eight-tenths of one percent was positive. "The use of steroids and amphetamines amongst today's players has greatly subsided and is virtually non-existent as our testing results have shown. The so-called "steroid era" - a reference that is resented by the many players who played in that era and never touched the substances - is clearly a thing of the past, and Mark's admission today is another step in the right direction."

Edgy DC Jan 11 2010 02:52 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

His re-entry into the game? How about slapping him with a suspension starting right now? It'd probably be doing McGwire a favor.

G-Fafif Jan 11 2010 03:02 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

Imagine if an active superstar like Alex Rodriguez admitted using. Why, I'll bet that if he fessed up during the offseason, the cloud would hang over him for the rest of the following season, that the fans of the team he played for would never forgive him and if he somehow got to a World Series and excelled that nobody would credit him for it, because if there's anything we have as consumers it's a long memory.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 11 2010 03:16 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

"While we, along with all sports organizations, continue to battle the use of such drugs and continue the intensive search for a valid test for HGH, I believe our drug testing program is the toughest and most effective in professional sports. Last year in the Major Leagues, we had only two positives for steroids out of 3,722 tests. We have banned and aggressively test for amphetamines, substances which club doctors and professional athletic trainers have told me had presented serious problems for the sport for decades. Our minor league program will begin its 10th year in 2010. We conducted 8,995 tests in the minor leagues last year of which less than eight-tenths of one percent was positive." Reminds me of a moment from the late, great Arrested Development: MICHAEL: "We have a private eye, huh?" LUCILLE: "Oh, I hired him a hundred years ago to find out if your father was cheating on me. He never did find anything." (beat) MICHAEL: "Well, he can't be very good, then."

Fman99 Jan 11 2010 03:45 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

Big Mac on the juice, Sarah Palin going to work for Fox News, my no-shit-o-meter is up to about 11 today.

Frayed Knot Jan 11 2010 05:08 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

I'm amazed that this is being treated as major news and it's a whole lotta nuthin as far as I'm concerned. Nothing was learned that even that even the most naive weren't already 99+% sure of and at best this just short-circuits the story that was going to come out at the Cards' ST site. But at least it hands the main-stream sports media their favorite excuse to talk baseball. Today, despite it being an obvious football news day (pro playoffs, Pete Carroll, etc.), ESPN's 'PTI' made this their lead story and also went back to it later on - maybe three or four minutes total (Sportscenter led with it also). Last week I was watching the same show (PTI) during an otherwise uneventful mid-week day and they still couldn't manage to dedicate a full minute to either the HoF results or the Big Unit retirement, instead jamming them into a single segment as if to put the topics behind them as quickly as possible.

Ashie62 Jan 11 2010 06:51 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

McGwire's statement was genuine

Edgy DC Jan 11 2010 07:40 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

I disagree most completely.

Willets Point Jan 11 2010 08:17 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

As far as I'm concerned, every professional baseball player used performance enhancing drugs up to 2003. Not just the bad guys everyone wants to see shamed but the so-called good guys too. Every single damn one of them used ped's. Coaches, managers, trainers and executives helped them use ped's or turned a blind eye . They all used it and it was bad and it's good that MLB finally cracked down, but in an odd way they were on a level playing field in that era too. Constantly leaking or confessing old news about guys who used and trying to determine who needs and asterix is counterproductive. Find out who is using and abusing and screening their PED use now. Everything before 2003 is irrelevant.

Edgy DC Jan 11 2010 08:27 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

I don't think McGwire being more honest about what he did is counterproductive.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 11 2010 08:53 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="Willets Point":2ys8vgtr]As far as I'm concerned, every professional baseball player used performance enhancing drugs up to 2003.[/quote:2ys8vgtr] John Olerud used steroids?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 11 2010 09:22 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="batmagadanleadoff":2pucoibc][quote="Willets Point":2pucoibc]As far as I'm concerned, every professional baseball player used performance enhancing drugs up to 2003.[/quote:2pucoibc] John Olerud used steroids?[/quote:2pucoibc] Olerud freebased the shit, man. I agree with Willets -- everyone's a suspect.

Edgy DC Jan 11 2010 09:36 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

I agree that everyone is a suspect from that era, and would further add that I'm not too comfortable with those in the current era. But he goes beyond that, claiming (a) everyone is guilty, (b) they balanced each other out, and (c) a player confessing from that era is beyond irrelevant, but actually counterproductive. He loses me on those points. Believing everyone is guilty seems just as easy as believing everyone is innocent and both seem to me to be avoiding the hard work. The same foxes, meanwhile, are still watching the hen house.

Ashie62 Jan 11 2010 10:06 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="Edgy DC":20bt53ko]I disagree most completely.[/quote:20bt53ko] I'm shocked!

Willets Point Jan 12 2010 08:44 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

It's pointless to dredge up yet another guilty party from back then instead of focusing on what's going on right now. We already know that lots of players - maybe all the players - used roids back then and that encouraged stricter rules in the MLB in 2003. It's counterproductive to keep going back to before 2003. It's past and gone. We can only fix what's happening today.

Edgy DC Jan 12 2010 09:06 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

Well, the guilty party came forward on his own terms. But his exposure and uhappiness can hopefully serve as a warning against latter-day would-be cheaters. And also, perhaps, help uncover those in the game then, and still in the game now, who facilitated his bamboozling. Truth begets truth. Justice begets justice.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 12 2010 10:04 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

I'll-- gasp-- agree with Ashie on this... at least in stipulating that his admission seems sincere. Except for one thing, really-- the apology. Though I'll allow that he's definitely sorry for the way things have turned out for him, I don't buy for a second that he's sorry for what he did, or that he wouldn't do it again-- if maybe in a different way-- given the exact same set of circumstances today.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 12 2010 10:07 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="Edgy DC":2ghhuwtx]Well, the guilty party came forward on his own terms..[/quote:2ghhuwtx] Yes .... those terms being: "If I get into the HOF, I won't admit anything. But if I get just 23% of the vote, I guess I'll have to admit that I took some PEDS that made it harder instead of easier for me to hit home runs."

Edgy DC Jan 12 2010 10:08 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":j62nbzvn]I'll-- gasp-- agree with Ashie on this... at least in stipulating that his admission seems sincere. Except for one thing, really-- the apology. Though I'll allow that he's definitely sorry for the way things have turned out for him, I don't buy for a second that he's sorry for what he did, or that he wouldn't do it again-- if maybe in a different way-- given the exact same set of circumstances today.[/quote:j62nbzvn] Well, Ashie is speaking of his "statement" --- the only part of which that can be controversial is the apology. I mean, of course the admission is sincere. Why would he lie in saying he used?

metsmarathon Jan 12 2010 10:18 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

my only problem with the admision is that, at a minimum, he's lying to himself that the steroids didnt help him hit any more home runs than he woulc have, cleanly. i mean, by his own admission, he was able to stay in the game because the steroids helped him heal. by staying in teh game, and not retiring early or deteriorating as rapidly as he would have without steroids, he was able to hit more home runs. duh. now, he may not believe that the steroids enabled him to hit the ball better, harder, or farther, but it allowed him to maintain a higher level of performance on the field for a longer duration in terms of both games per season, and seasons per career, than he would have been able to on his own. and he's kidding himself if he doesn't see that. i believe that he doesn't see that, by the way. or at least, that he's actively deluded himself over the past 20 years so that he can no longer see it. well, i imagine there's a high probability that he's been coached to say that, or encouraged to say that, so that he can still lay claim to his accomplishments in his career. that as soon as he acknowledges that steroids let him hit even one more home run, the thread starts to unravel to the point where every one of his home runs since 1989 may be culled from his record. but he could be delusional, too.

Edgy DC Jan 12 2010 10:35 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

“I’m not surprised Mark said it,” says Steve Trachsel, author of the pitch that became Mark McGwire's 62nd homer of 1998. “I mean, we all suspected it. We all knew it. Now you have to say everything he ever did was tainted. All of it.” According to Bob Klapisch, Trachs also reminded folks, with chagrin, that McGwire missed first base on his trot and had to be stopped by Dave McKay.

Centerfield Jan 12 2010 10:40 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

What the fuck Trachs. Stop being such a loser.

TransMonk Jan 12 2010 10:41 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

John Kruk on Sportcenter last night stated he never used steroids. If that weren't laughable enough, he went on to imply that if everyone was clean when he played he would have been one of the best players of his day.

Centerfield Jan 12 2010 11:07 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

That's the fucked up thing. No one is ever going to investigate John Kruk, even though he might have been the biggest roid-head of them all, because no one cares if he used. Everyone knows I was opposed to people excluding McGwire based on speculation alone, but if the voters hadn't done so, he would be in and we would never have this admission. And something that promotes players to stay silent is clearly not a good thing. Of course, the last thing I would want to see is a "Come clean and we'll vote you in" policy. Whether intentional or otherwise. That's idiotic. Maybe you just let them all in and chalk it up as a circumstance of the times. I don't know. I wish there was a good answer.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 12 2010 01:06 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

David Brown of Yahoo's Big League Stew breaks down the McGwire break down in FJM-ish fashion. Cheeky sample below: BC: Could you have hit 70 home runs — a home-run ratio greater than anything Babe Ruth did in his time — without using steroids? MM: Absolutely. I was given this gift by the Man Upstairs. Again with this "Man Upstairs." Costas, he's telling you that his dealer is upstairs! Find out where he is! Make him show his face! MM: My track record as far as hitting home runs. ... My first at bat in Little League was a home run; they still talk about the home runs in high school; they still talk about the home runs in [American] Legion; they still talk about the home runs I hit in college. I led the nation in home runs. They still talk about the home runs I hit in the minor leagues. "I led the nation in home runs." Translation: Why do you hate America, Bob Costas? BC: Would you have [accomplished all McGwire did] if you had never touched anything but a protein shake? MM: I truly believe so. I believe I was given this gift. Look, this is all God's will. Hasn't Costas been told? God gave McGwire the ability. And he made the drugs available in the form of a burning bottle of Andro... Here I was in a situation where I had two scenarios: Possible prosecution or possible grand-jury testimonies... We agreed to not talk about the past. And it was not enjoyable to do that, Bob. Let me tell you right now, sitting up there and listening to the Hooten family behind me and the other families behind me that lost their loved ones, and every time I kept on saying, "I'm not talking about the past," I hear these moans. It was killing me. It was absolutely killing my heart. But I had to do what I had to do to protect myself, to protect my family and to protect my friends. Anybody who was in my shoes that had those scenarios set out in front of them would have done the same exact thing. One of McGwire's themes, for every action that he took, seems that "anyone else would have done the same thing." Hear that? You are a Congressional evader just like him! Shame on you all!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 12 2010 01:21 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

And Walkoff Walk's Rob Iracane offers his report card of the interview and its fallout: McGwire, B: Probably cried authentic tears, but never really broke down into a full "boo-hoo" cry that would have convinced a nation of amateur psychoanalysts that he was sincere... Also, Mac never pimped himself as a HOFer, even refusing to answer the question if he would vote for himself; instead, he came off like a family man who wanted nothing more than to work as a hitting coach under a convicted drunk driver. The American dream! Perhaps most notably, he assails the idea of 1998's McGwire-Sosa War of Dong "saving baseball:" Sure, it was a cute story back in 1998, but if you were one of the dopes who thought that famous home run chase "brought baseball back," go back in time and punch yourself in the face. The United States courts supported the players union and issued an injunction against the owners in March, 1995. That's what saved baseball. Good ol' fashioned litigation.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 12 2010 01:35 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

I remember in 1995 it was Cal Ripken who "saved baseball."

Frayed Knot Jan 12 2010 01:51 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

Several of the so-called "saved baseball" moments were more-or-less excuses for why the sport was doing so well concocted after the fact by those who declared the sport dead in the early '90s. I must of heard that expression 20 times in the last 24 hours - mostly from people who ought to be talking about something else.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 12 2010 01:52 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

And I think some of it may have been wishful thinking.

metirish Jan 12 2010 01:54 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

I caught some on the interview.....painful is the word I would use to describe it.

MFS62 Jan 13 2010 08:01 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

He said that he didn't start to use PED until he had been in the majors for a while. I'm not sure how much of what he says that we can believe. But if that is true, he got off to a start that IMO would have put him on track for a career similar to HOF-er Harmon Killebrew. Too bad, he may have shot himself in the foot, as well as other places. Later

Centerfield Jan 13 2010 08:18 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

Jose Canseco saved baseball.

Vic Sage Jan 13 2010 08:55 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

it's funny because it's true, kinda.

Ashie62 Jan 13 2010 01:15 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="Vic Sage":dqbeaodk]it's funny because it's true, kinda.[/quote:dqbeaodk] McGwire and Canseco should be on the restricted list with Rose & Jackson

Frayed Knot Jan 13 2010 01:28 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

Just those two or every other name that's been connected to steroids as well?

Ashie62 Jan 13 2010 05:45 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="Frayed Knot":oq501pxr]Just those two or every other name that's been connected to steroids as well?[/quote:oq501pxr] Funny, I was debating that..I decided to persecute just these two but upon further review I'm adding Andy Petitte in a very arbitrary way

Nymr83 Jan 13 2010 05:49 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="Ashie62":1b6mahmg][quote="Frayed Knot":1b6mahmg]Just those two or every other name that's been connected to steroids as well?[/quote:1b6mahmg] Funny, I was debating that..I decided to persecute just these two but upon further review I'm adding Andy Petitte in a very arbitrary way[/quote:1b6mahmg] Lets add Clemens and their buddy Jeter (guilt by association) and call it a day.

Edgy DC Jan 13 2010 07:38 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

Slap-Rod walks? I think not.

Nymr83 Jan 13 2010 09:32 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="Edgy DC"]Slap-Rod walks? I think not.

banned for carrying a purse.

metsguyinmichigan Jan 13 2010 09:53 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="Nymr83"][quote="Edgy DC"]Slap-Rod walks? I think not.

banned for carrying a purse.



Oh man, can there be a Photo Bullet of Cool? Would it be a Canon Ball?

MFS62 Jan 13 2010 10:40 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

I think that picture was posted here many months ago. (I know I've seen it before) It would have to have been nominated when originally posted (if there was a BOC awarded then), wouldn't it?. But in the absence of any hard and fast BOC nomination rules, I'd say nominate away and let the chips fall where they may. (Er, that may be the wrong expression to use on the day we find out about Beltran's new surgery.) Later

Edgy DC Jan 14 2010 05:41 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

By months, you must mean 64 months. It probably first appeared on the internet the morning after the incident happened. It's everywhere.

metirish Jan 14 2010 06:18 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

Shit , I was done with that pic four years ago.

Edgy DC Jan 14 2010 10:14 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

By the way, is the 1988-1989 offseason the earliest verified steroids usage on record now?

Benjamin Grimm Jan 14 2010 10:15 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

I know it may not pass the "verified" criteria, but what year was it when Lenny Dykstra showed up in Port St. Lucie all buffed up like the Hulk?

metirish Jan 14 2010 10:46 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

Just curious here for opinions..... In twenty years will these players that have had HOF careers but have "juiced" be in the HOF? "JUICED".....suspected of , caught , knowen to have done, admitted it...have admitted etc. I think those who have admitted to it will be , but guys like Clemens and Bonds who say they have not won't be in....

smg58 Jan 14 2010 10:47 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":2khe74ps]I know it may not pass the "verified" criteria, but what year was it when Lenny Dykstra showed up in Port St. Lucie all buffed up like the Hulk?[/quote:2khe74ps] I'm pretty sure it was 1993, his career year.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 14 2010 10:59 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

No, it was definitely when he was a Met. I'm thinking 1987, or maybe 1988.

Nymr83 Jan 14 2010 11:02 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="metirish":2r6n6s9v]Just curious here for opinions..... In twenty years will these players that have had HOF careers but have "juiced" be in the HOF? "JUICED".....suspected of , caught , knowen to have done, admitted it...have admitted etc. I think those who have admitted to it will be , but guys like Clemens and Bonds who say they have not won't be in....[/quote:2r6n6s9v] I think there is going to be a much higher bar for power hitters from this era, which is appropriate anyway because stats should be put into historical perspective to begin with. fair or not (and its probably not) i don't see any pitchers getting a "cloud of suspicion" over them the way hitters do unless they actually become linked to steroids (like Clemens)

Frayed Knot Jan 14 2010 11:36 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":19r4sf43]No, it was definitely when he was a Met. I'm thinking 1987, or maybe 1988.[/quote:19r4sf43] Definitely. "Vitamins" was his explanation. Prior to that, the first guy I remember as coming back from an off-season all bulked-up was Brian Downing, then with Anaheim, and I'm thinking that was '85 or so. Not that that alone makes him a 'verified' roids user.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 14 2010 06:17 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

1987, then 1993. IIRC, he had two stages of buffery-- late Mets, then late (and superinflated) Phils.

Centerfield Jan 15 2010 02:08 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

Jack Clark (the guy is talkative of late!) chimes in an calls McGwire a "creep". Article: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4828816 After a rough tally, I think I hate everyone mentioned in that article.

attgig Jan 15 2010 02:17 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

he's right, and nobody else man's up to say it like it is. McGwire is pretty much insulting everyone in baseball by giving all of his excuses, and everyone in baseball that's vouching for him by saying he's doing a good thing by telling the "truth" (when all he's really doing is confirming things people knows and giving piss poor excuses for it) is insulting everyone else in baseball. blah.

metirish Jan 15 2010 02:17 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

"Fakes and phonies"......hard to argue with that.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2010 02:20 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

I hope his Hall of Fame vote count goes down by at least half next year.

Edgy DC Jan 15 2010 02:30 PM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

At least he's on the ballot. Pete Rose, who also took the path of own-up-not-because-it's-noble-but-only-when-it's-the-best-path-left-to-Cooperstown, still isn't.

metirish Jan 22 2010 09:31 AM Re: McGwire, Roid Freak

This is best read in a hoity-toity voice The highly orchestrated apology by and on behalf of Mark McGwire has reached a point that tests one's tolerance. I suspect I am not alone in my disappointment at McGwire's recent "clarification" on his use of illegal steroids. But, has no one noticed? McGwire is not apologizing for his deceit, only for the embarrassment that came from his admission of having previously lied. The timing of his announcement at the start of a new baseball season has allowed him to hide behind the frenzy of a new Cardinal season and the blinding faith of Cardinal loyalists. Mark McGuire chose to take performance-enhancing drugs 9 of his 18 years in professional baseball. He was paid millions while perpetrating a fraud. So how is it MLB Commissioner Bud Selig gives him a pass and welcomes McGwire back to the very game he betrayed? Christine Brennan of USA Today was accurate in describing Mark McGwire as professional baseball's infamous "Good Cheater." What can we now expect from Major League Baseball for Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Roger Clemens and Sammy Sosa? Bottom-line...Mark McGwire made a "personal" decision to use illegal drugs. He deliberately cheated the game and stole its most coveted records along the way. He stonewalled Congress. He even lied to the Cardinal fans and the media by his now infamous quote of February 2005, "Once and for all, I did not take steroids or any other illegal substances". McGuire has chosen to come out of the closet at the perfect time -- Alongside a manager who also refuses to be honest, to the fans or to the game itself. After all, why would Tony La Russa hire a hitting coach whose lifetime batting average was only .263? Bill McClellan of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch probably stated it best in his recent assessment of McGwire's remarks. "I took steroids for my health, never to enhance my performance," stated McGwire. But according to McClellan, "That's like apologizing for eating vegetables." McClellan further points to McGwire's playing himself as the "victim." He even wishes there had been drug testing when he started playing. Maybe someone would have stopped him. Huh? "Isn't' that sort of like Bernie Madoff lamenting the lack of government regulation to justify his swindling investors," points out McClellan. Will the time ever arrive when professional baseball recognizes the severity of McGwire's actions? When will Bud Selig realize that former Players' Association president, Donald Fehr, manipulated him and baseball by keeping drug monitoring off the table during years of negotiations? Fehr and Selig made a mockery of their responsibilities to protect the integrity of the game. Adolphus A. Busch, IV. St. Louis, MO