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The Beltran Situation: What Next?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 14 2010 01:00 PM

OK, sounds to me as if the Mets are: 1) Disappointed about not having had their opportunity to review Steadman's diagnosis and recommendation 2) Disappointed that Beltran is hurt again 3) Mad about the potential implications of both, the first being a kind of crime against the team, the second being the prospect of missing their best player for an unknown period. I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to do something to goose the offense that they might not have considered earlier. You can tell they don't want to go through another year of uncertainty.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 14 2010 01:06 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

The "wait for guys to get healthy" plan was a dismal failure last year, because the guys never did get healthy. If they could be sure that Beltran would be back and healthy by around May 1, I could see them hanging in there with Pagan. But after last year, we know that there's no way to be sure about that at all, and that it's entirely possible that Carlos will be out until June, or July, or August, or September... So yes, I think they'll make a move and bring in an outfielder. Beltran's disappearing takes away more than they got from the addition of Bay. I have no idea what that move might be, however. I suspect they'll be more likely to sign Delgado now, just to have another potential source for power.

metirish Jan 14 2010 01:08 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Just from reading your pbp it seems like the Mets got the PR aspect right on this so far, they seemed restrained with their words and having Howard and Rico take the lead helps. That's a plus I think. I think this blows over and the Mets will add a bat to complement Pagan out there, Edgy mentioned Winn , someone like him .

Edgy DC Jan 14 2010 01:10 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I didn't mention Winn. Though I think winning is a good strategy. I get the impression Operation Slow Hacky Catcher is on hold.

Ashie62 Jan 14 2010 01:16 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I don't have great faith in microfracture surgery Get Jacoby Ellsbury from the Red Sox. He won't come cheap.

attgig Jan 14 2010 01:20 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

we have too much money tied up in beltran to try to find a suitalbe CF replacement. Pagan (or maybe fmart) can fill in for him if the return is May-ish. I say, improve the rest of the team as much as you can. find better offense where you can, or find better pitching where you can. Monitor Sheets workout. check over his medicals. If things look good, give him a contract to be #2, instead of trying to get a cheap contract with piniero or garland. And/Or, look for a better option in RF or 1b. perhaps try to open up a trading market. how much would adrian gonzalez cost? is there a possibility of the nats trading dunn or rays consider trading pena? (both 1 year left in their respective deals). Colorado has a bunch of OF'ers, maybe Hawpe could be tradable for them. There needs to be rocks turned over that may not have been turning before. my $.02

Ceetar Jan 14 2010 01:25 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I hope not Delgado, that seems a bad idea. But I guess if he can be healthy in April and May that's what you're looking for in this case. But Delgado looks like his best months won't beu ntil summer as he'll be slow to recover from the hip stuff and wait for warm weather. I'm thinking..Sheets. He's the best talent pitcher out there. It doesn't haev to be an offensive answer, as they still havea good one, and better pitching will win games that Beltran might've via offense. If Sheets does go down, Beltran will likely be back by the, and maybe Niese or one of our other three pitchers have stepped up that we don't miss him much.

Edgy DC Jan 14 2010 01:26 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Improving in rightfield seems to be the way to go to me. They're already crossing their fingers there.

Centerfield Jan 14 2010 01:43 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

If I were the Mets, I'd talk to Steadman. If he tells me that Beltran's knee has been scoped, he is not a candidate for micro-fracture surgery, and that he should be at full-speed in May (or at the latest June), then I make do with what we have. If there is a chance he can be out longer, I look to upgrade. We have Pagan who does fine in CF. So I think they should be more focused on finding a middle of the order hitter than they are at finding a centerfielder. I thought the Mets should be looking to upgrade RF regardless of Beltran's knee.

metsmarathon Jan 14 2010 02:03 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

the most intriguing name still out there on the fa market is rick ankiel. he has the ability to play cf full time, and at a minimum can share that time with pagan, and also has the ability to mimimize the risk posed by jeff francoeur returning to what he'd been with the braves of late. he'd provide us with the most depth and the most upside this side of a healthy carlos delgado. i'd love to see the mets take this as a cue to give up on pursuing bengie molina, but i'm afraid that they'd see this as creating the imperative to lock down the catcher spot so they can then better focus on the beltran situation. in my head, the mets should go out and bring in rick ankiel, carlos delgado, and ben sheets, and call it an offseason. ok, ok, i'd accept joel piniero instead of sheets, i guess... that would give them about as much flexibility and redundancy as i figure they might need.

Frayed Knot Jan 14 2010 02:31 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Ashie62 wrote: I don't have great faith in microfracture surgery Then don't have it. Get Jacoby Ellsbury from the Red Sox. He won't come cheap. Oh, OK.

Ashie62 Jan 14 2010 02:45 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Frayed Knot wrote: Ashie62 wrote: I don't have great faith in microfracture surgery Then don't have it. I don't want Beltran to have it snarky one

smg58 Jan 14 2010 03:14 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Don't panic. The Mets have somebody on the team who posted an .837 OPS last year while providing average centerfield defense, neither of which was done by Jacoby Ellsbury last year. The worst thing we could do is badly overpay for somebody who may be a lot less of an upgrade over what we currently have than he looks at face value. There are bargains to be had. A Russ Branyan/Ryan Garko platoon at first would really fill the power void, and would probably cost us $5M total or less. Randy Winn, if he's over whatever impeded his ability to swing righthanded last year, could be quality outfield depth at a dirt cheap price. Maybe a pitching upgrade would come more cheaply than an established centerfielder. There are means of improving the team out there that would neither break the bank nor cost us players we'd miss.

Edgy DC Jan 14 2010 03:23 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Yes, of course. But now the demand has somehow shifted to an insistance that the Mets overpay for mediocrity.

Ceetar Jan 14 2010 06:13 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

It seems like they already have talked to the doc, I assume that's where the 12 weeks +/-4 weeks is coming from. This seems like it's reasonably late April/Early May which isn't the end of the world. I mean, these things could of course take longer. No one really knows until he's healed and getting back into baseball shape. Late March maybe before we have a real prognosis and target date. I don't think I like Ankiel as a steady enough guy. I'm comfortable with Pagan, who has actually played very well, even some pop, here. He had a fast start in 2008, maybe he will again. I wish they'd upgrade RF, just to be sure, but I don't think they are. At least the 3-year Francoeur extension that was floated around (by Heyman I think?) at the end of the season didn't come to be. I suspect the Mets don't want to sign another OF and completely block Fernando Martinez, figuring Francoeur can be a satisfactory run producer batting 6th, and maybe Martinez shows up late in the season after lighting up the minors and provides a spark. I wouldn't even rule out him having a fiery spring and getting the nod in April if things shake out that way, but that's a big if right now. I think pitching is the way to go. They have to do that anyway, so maybe take on one of the more risky type Sheets guy if it's not completely absurdly priced. i.e. Reduce the need for Beltran's bat by letting up less runs.

Edgy DC Jan 14 2010 06:46 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Francoeur for three moeur? Thank heavens that nonsense didn't get bandied about here.

Nymr83 Jan 14 2010 06:50 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Given Martinez's still very young age I wouldn't mind at all if they 'blocked' him for 2010 by acquiring someone decent (I hear the Nationals just signed a decent outfielder for only 1 year at a bargain price, who was it again?...)

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 14 2010 06:51 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Em... Ankiel's coming off one shitty year. Apart from running into that fence in May and a couple of nagging injuries... what the hell?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 14 2010 06:57 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I think the Mets should go get as much pitching as they can regardless, but it won't help us score runs every night. I think we gotta go find some offense, ideally at second base. And as long as he's not attracting any love I'd certainly look at Ankeil, tho I've always thought him to be a filthy fucked up juicer like the rest of the Cardinals.

Nymr83 Jan 14 2010 07:13 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I think we gotta go find some offense, ideally at second base Orlando Hudson? his offense is marginally better than what Castillo did last year, but i think he's much more likely to repeat it than Castillo. the defense is probably miles ahead.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 14 2010 07:19 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 14 2010 07:58 PM

Ankiel, Baldelli, Endy. I could go for 2-of-3; nice band-aid while Voltron is out, beautiful depth when Voltron makes his triumphant return in May... to RF or 1B. Hudson would be helpful, too. Between the two positions, Ankiel and Hudson, say, get us back a good amount of the missing Beltroduction. Or-- ooh-- Lopez? Flippy Lopez?

Nymr83 Jan 14 2010 07:50 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

No Thanks on Ankiel, his numbers last year sucked and we know he was juicing in the past, what if this is what he can do now that he's off the juice?

Fman99 Jan 14 2010 08:20 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Time to hit the ol' bargain bin, get someone who will play for peanuts (and then guarantee them 2-3 mil, Cora-style, as the Mets always stupidly do). A stopgap that they can cut or keep around. Winn Ankiel Baldelli Or let Pagan play, he's an April all star. Or even give F-Mart another extended look. It seems much more likely now that the Mets bring Delgado back to hope to regain some power numbers in Moletran's absence.

TheOldMole Jan 15 2010 09:44 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Moletran?

MFS62 Jan 15 2010 10:24 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Nymr83 wrote: No Thanks on Ankiel, his numbers last year sucked and we know he was juicing in the past, what if this is what he can do now that he's off the juice? IIRC his numbers "sucked" because he ran into an outfield wall last year, was out about three weeks, and never fully recovered from the concussion when he returned. (see: Church, Ryan) If he is recovered, he would make a nice pickup. And, after those numbers last year and recent signing amounts, I don't he'd cost a heckuva' lot. Later

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 15 2010 10:33 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Guess who his agent is

attgig Jan 15 2010 11:43 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Guess who his agent is just cus he has a superagent doesn't mean he's automatically entitled to millions. the biggest impediment is that he won't be guaranteed a starting job, which was a roadblock with the pirates. he wants a 1 year contract to show himself off, and he can't do that sitting on a bench. problem is, a month of starting may be his best opportunity vs other clubs out there (i think royals may be the only one that MAY have an opening). The other issue in my mind is is ankiel really better than pagan? I don't see it. give pagan a shot, and improve everything else.

metirish Jan 15 2010 11:44 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Boras of course..... There was a NY kneee specialist quoted in the Snooze today as saying that the surgery might not even fix what's wrong with Beltran.... Here , I found it in the online edition RESULTS MAY VARY: Even if Beltran is ready for baseball activities in 12 weeks after knee surgery, the Mets have no guarantees that he will be the same player, a fleet, power-hitting outfielder who is among baseball's elite. "It's conceivable that surgery doesn't help," said Dr. Ronald Grelsamer, a knee surgeon in the department of orthopaedic surgery at Mount Sinai. Grelsamer has not examined Beltran. The surgery, according to the Mets, cleaned out the arthritic area of Beltran's right knee. Arthritis, Dr. Grelsamer said, has a "variable effect" on patients. "Some patients have very bad arthritis but can do more than some who have very little and are hobbling," Grelsamer said. "You can't extrapolate from one to another how it is going to affect you - two with the same amount of arthritis can have differing amounts of pain." Initially, Grelsamer said, he was surprised when he read the projection that Beltran would not be back to baseball activities for three months. Generally, he said, projections for professional athletes returning from arthroscopic surgery can be as quick as 3-4 weeks. An arthroscopy, he said, is "essentially performing a manicure - washing out, cleaning out, trimming, taking out stuff that could be irritating." Boras, Beltran's agent, said in a telephone interview Thursday that Beltran's doctor found "20-30 fragments of cartilage in the knee. It was a very successful surgery and we expect Carlos to return to play and not have any problems."

Edgy DC Jan 15 2010 11:51 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I don't think there was ever any thought of a guarantee that he'd be fixed --- just a better chance that he'd be better.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2010 11:54 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

On Mets Hot Stove Report, Kevin Burkhart asked Howard Johnson how long it would take Beltran to get ready to return to the big leagues once he's ready to "begin baseball activities." I was curious about this myself, but HoJo didn't give any kind of a firm answer. It will take "a period of time." "Assuming there are no setbacks" he'll need to get "some at bats in the minors." Some sportswriters are saying that Beltran will be back in mid-May "at the earliest" but that's rather pessimistic optimism. I would think "the earliest" would have the 12 weeks ending April 5, and then about two weeks of extended spring training, including a few games at Buffalo, and he could be playing by the last week of April. I'm not saying this is the most likely thing, but I think it's more accurate to say that the best-case is April 26 instead of May 15. (Not that the 19 days difference will probably mean a whole lot in the long run.) I know that position players always think that spring training is too long, so I don't imagine that Beltran, if healthy, will need a full six weeks to get ready to join the Mets.

Ceetar Jan 15 2010 12:05 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I've heard 8-12 weeks as well, which almost seems like it's feasible for opening day. I think he'll miss some time in April, but he'll probably be back by May. of course, anything can happen. I think it'll depend how he feels around March 8th (8 weeks) and he'll start seeing the docs and what not then and see about getting cleared to play. Who knows, they could carry him on the roster for the first week due to the usual only need 4 starters right away thing (playing short of course, isn't that the way it goes?) and ease him into things, pinch hits, etc. Not sure that'd be the wisest move, but hey, who knows right?

metirish Jan 15 2010 02:21 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Omar speaks...........and clears the mess up..... Mets general manager Omar Minaya said Friday that he did not give the OK for Carlos Beltran to have knee surgery before the team's star centerfielder went under the knife on Wednesday. "Carlos did speak to me before surgery and we had a good conversation," Minaya told Newsday in a telephone interview. "It was one of those things as far as he was telling me what the second opinion was and all that. I basically told him, 'Look, as long as the protocol is followed.' I didn't give an OK because ... we had a good conversation about it that seemed like he was excited about it. I did talk to Carlos about that (Friday) and I did have a conversation with him before (the surgery) and with the simple thing that he let me know what the prognosis was as far as that he was going to have surgery. Bottom line, as long as that protocol was followed, that's all. That's what happened there." Minaya's stance - that Beltran went ahead with the surgery without the Mets' final approval - contradicts what Beltran said in a statement on Thursday issued through his agent, Scott Boras. "I also spoke to Omar Minaya about the surgery on Tuesday," Beltran said in the statement. "He did not ask me to wait or to get another doctor's opinion. He just wished me well. No one from the team raised any issue until Wednesday, after I was already in surgery. I do not know what else I could have done." Minaya, in his first public comments on the matter, said he spoke with Beltran Friday in an attempt to clarify matters. "I just told him that ownership and myself and the doctors ... there was a breakdown in the process, those were the issues," he said. "There was a miscommunication along the way. A general manager doesn't approve it, that's between the doctors and the other people. "Carlos and I have a very good relationship. I told Carlos from ownership, there's no issues with Carlos. The issues that were played out were more on the process. We had a very good conversation. There are no issues between Carlos and myself or the organization." Despite Minaya's contention, there does seem to be an issue. By going on the record as saying they did not approve the surgery and involving the commissioner's office, as they did on Wednesday, the Mets could be setting up a legal battle in which they seek to recoup some of Beltran's salary if his recovery from the surgery goes awry. "I knew that surgery was planned," Minaya said. "He told me that surgery had been planned. My words for him was, 'As long as the protocol was being followed.'""

metsmarathon Jan 15 2010 02:38 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

gee, i just don't know how anybody could get their signals crossed up with omar - he's always so succinct and precise in his language.

A Boy Named Seo Jan 15 2010 02:39 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

"Carlos did speak to me before surgery and we had a good conversation," Minaya told Newsday in a telephone interview. "It was one of those things as far as he was telling me what the second opinion was and all that. I basically told him, 'Look, as long as the protocol is followed.' I didn't give an OK because ... we had a good conversation about it that seemed like he was excited about it. I did talk to Carlos about that (Friday) and I did have a conversation with him before (the surgery) and with the simple thing that he let me know what the prognosis was as far as that he was going to have surgery. Bottom line, as long as that protocol was followed, that's all. That's what happened there." I read that twice and still have no idea what the hell Omar's saying. If Carlos talked to him last Friday and told him what the second opinion was, and Omar's response was that crazy shit back to him, it's real hard to find any fault with Carlos, except maybe failure to get an Omar-to-English (or Spanish) translator. I bet Brookstone has em.

Centerfield Jan 15 2010 02:45 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

It's gotten to the point where Omar Minaya and parodies of Omar Minaya are indistinguishable from one another.

Edgy DC Jan 15 2010 02:48 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I think it's pretty clear, and has been all along, that nobody defied anybody, nobody betrayed anybody, but somebody misunderstood somebody. And I think the odds-on favorite from the first moment has been Beltran misunderstanding Minaya. But again, I think we're exactly where we would be had he not.

A Boy Named Seo Jan 15 2010 03:00 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Edgy DC wrote: I think it's pretty clear, and has been all along, that nobody defied anybody, nobody betrayed anybody, but somebody misunderstood somebody. And I think the odds-on favorite from the first moment has been Beltran misunderstanding Minaya. But again, I think we're exactly where we would be had he not. Not really clear to me. Beltran's statement completely contradicted Ricco's, and Omar backs Ricco up by saying he didn't OK the surgery. Omar's throwing around "follow protocol" as if that clears anything up, or moves the heat back to Carlos (or off him), but he still seems to be implying that Beltran defied the team's wishes. Agreed we'd probably be here just the same, but that's a huge-ass miscommunication. Minaya seems to admit as much, but confuses shit more when he says he didn't give an OK, but said he explained to Carlos that he's not the guy who gives the OK anyway. Huh?

Edgy DC Jan 15 2010 03:15 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

It seems to me that "Omar didn't make himself all that clear even though he thought he did" is a great default explanation for any he-said-she-said situations, now and in the future. Let's hope for not too many more of these.

duan Jan 15 2010 05:24 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

seriously though, at what point in time does Tony Soprano come into the mets front office and say "Loose Lips Sink Ships". It's like there's NO WAY that they can possibly NOT say something stupid about anything. This could have all been handled privately, release the statement saying "Carlos Beltran underwent surgery, when he was unable to increase his training to the level he desired to get into shape for the new season. The decision was taken to undergo the surgery now to allow for the minimum disruption possible to the 2010 season. It is unfortunate that the need for the surgery did not become clear till this point, but as Carlos had been successful in playing a number of games in September he thought he would be able to work his way back to peak condition naturally." JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WHY IS IT ALWAYS NECESSARY TO TRY AND POINT SCORE IN THE MEDIA

smg58 Jan 16 2010 12:25 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I think Omar took it for granted that Beltran would get official approval before going ahead, and Beltran took it for granted that nobody would object to him going ahead with the surgery since there was, well, no good reason whatsoever to do so. But somebody did object, and then decided the best way to handle this was to bring in the commissioner and the media. And again, who benefits, besides the reporters who get another free opportunity to slam the Mets?

Edgy DC Jan 20 2010 10:03 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Jim F. Edmonds is making comeback noises.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 20 2010 10:04 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

F. Jim Edmonds

MFS62 Jan 20 2010 10:08 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: F. Jim Edmonds That is a brief, but accurate, description of the way I feel, too. LOL! Later

Ashie62 Jan 20 2010 10:15 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: F. Jim Edmonds Thats not bad!

Benjamin Grimm Jan 20 2010 10:35 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

The Mets should hang back and see what Ed Price thinks.

Edgy DC Jan 20 2010 10:38 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

That's Ed F. Price.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 20 2010 12:17 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

As in, "Omar, dear... there was some ratlike rustling, then some noises that sounded like a old-fashioned modem squeal in the pantry overnight. Should I call the exterminator, or is that Ed F. Price again?"

Nymr83 Jan 20 2010 12:19 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I'm not looking to pull a 40 year old who didnt play last year out of retirement, but why does anyone dislike Edmonds? or do you all just dislike the prospect of him becoming a Met right now?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 20 2010 12:24 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Juicer, meathead, showoff, old, equity with the Cardinals. What else?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 20 2010 12:26 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Plenty-diminished and rapidly-diminishing skills at the plate and field. Additionally, power is to straightaway and the gaps. Additionally, fuck that guy for the reasons JCL said.

Edgy DC Jan 21 2010 07:44 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Yeah, fie on former-Cardinal-who-hasn't-played-since-2008-desperately-trying-for-a-comeback Jim Edmonds. Not when we can reach out to former-Cardinal-who-hasn't-played-since-2007-desperately-trying-for-a-comeback Preston Wilson. Make it happen.

TransMonk Jan 21 2010 07:52 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Here's another Cardinal available: Rick Ankiel

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 21 2010 08:02 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Here's another Cardinal available: Rick Ankiel F him.

MFS62 Jan 21 2010 08:13 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Speaking of F, Fernando Martinez had hit 5 hits in 6 AB yesterday (homer, 2B and 3 hits) Also with 6 RBI's...he has HR in two consecutive games in the final series of the DWL between Escogido and the Giants of Cibao. his line is .345/.333/.621 in 9 playoff games...an XBH machine right now.... * Hmmmmm. Later * = The numbers are from a subscription site.

Centerfield Jan 21 2010 09:12 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

MFS62 wrote: Speaking of F, Fernando Martinez had hit 5 hits in 6 AB yesterday (homer, 2B and 3 hits) Also with 6 RBI's...he has HR in two consecutive games in the final series of the DWL between Escogido and the Giants of Cibao. his line is .345/.333/.621 in 9 playoff games...an XBH machine right now.... * Hmmmmm. Later * = The numbers are from a subscription site. I know the guy doesn't walk a whole lot, but he must be really bad to hit .345 and still have an OBP of only .333.

seawolf17 Jan 21 2010 09:15 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Quick! Trade him for an overpriced middle reliever!

Ashie62 Jan 21 2010 09:16 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Ed [bigpurple:1grxtkv1]F[/bigpurple:1grxtkv1]Price is the tool for AOL Fanhouse..thats about all you need to know

Benjamin Grimm Jan 21 2010 09:19 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Except that I've never even heard of AOL Fanhouse, at least until Ed Price came along. We're mocking him now, but one day he'll probably be President of the United States. Or Emperor of the World, or something like that.

old original jb Jan 21 2010 01:23 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

The Mets should put out the oldest group of players they can, and Jim Edmonds fits right into this. Think about it; if they win anything, anything at all, they will be the heroes of past their prime middle aged guys like me everywhere. If they don't win anything, well, what do you expect from a bunch of old guys. Maybe they can get Julio Franco back to play first while they are at it.

themetfairy Jan 21 2010 01:29 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

old original jb wrote: The Mets should put out the oldest group of players they can, and Jim Edmonds fits right into this. Think about it; if they win anything, anything at all, they will be the heroes of past their prime middle aged guys like me everywhere. If they don't win anything, well, what do you expect from a bunch of old guys. Maybe they can get Julio Franco back to play first while they are at it. jb! How the hell are you?

Edgy DC Jan 21 2010 01:30 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

It can't be.

old original jb Jan 21 2010 01:50 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

themetfairy wrote: The Mets should put out the oldest group of players they can, and Jim Edmonds fits right into this. Think about it; if they win anything, anything at all, they will be the heroes of past their prime middle aged guys like me everywhere. If they don't win anything, well, what do you expect from a bunch of old guys. Maybe they can get Julio Franco back to play first while they are at it. jb! How the hell are you? Well, the fact that I've officially embraced reaching middle age in a public forum should be a clue. Seriously, I'm fine. I now have a second daughter and face the moral dilemma of whether to ruin her life as well by brainwashing her to be a Mets fan as we did with our first. Not much time for the internet these days, and Mets land is pretty depressing anyway. I know he's not on the team anymore, but it seems appropriate to say anyway. Everybody say it with me, once with real disdain: "LOOPER!"

batmagadanleadoff Apr 17 2010 10:43 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Carlos Beltran's recovery from knee surgery taking longer than Mets first expected By Brian Costa/The Star-Ledger April 16, 2010, 3:21PM ST. LOUIS -- Carlos Beltran’s recovery from offseason knee surgery is taking longer than the Mets initially expected, and it’s not certain when he’ll resume baseball activities. When Beltran had surgery on his right knee on Jan. 13, the expectation was that he would resume baseball activities 12 weeks later -- around April 7 -- which would have put him on pace to return sometime in May, barring any setbacks. And just before the end of spring training, Beltran said he expected to start running around April 10. But Beltran has said all along his progress would be dictated by how he felt and there would be no definite timetable. Apparently, there still isn’t. Mets spokesman Jay Horwitz said today that Beltran has not been cleared by doctors to start running and has not resumed baseball activities. Beltran is still rehabbing in Port St. Lucie, Fla. “There’s been no setback,” Horwitz said. “He’s just not at that stage. He’s still in a rehabilitation stage.” On April 1, after the Mets’ final spring training game in Port St. Lucie, Beltran said: “I don’t want to talk about when I can come back because I don’t know yet. When I run, then that can give me an idea of where I am. Right now it’s hard for me to say because I haven’t run.” http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2010/0 ... _from.html

Ashie62 Apr 17 2010 11:48 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Not a shocker. I've kinda forgotten about Beltran and believe that his knee is "shot." It will be interesting to see if Fmart becomes an option in CF in 2010.

Ceetar Apr 18 2010 09:46 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Ashie62 wrote: Not a shocker. I've kinda forgotten about Beltran and believe that his knee is "shot." It will be interesting to see if Fmart becomes an option in CF in 2010. This lack of communication is really fueling conspiracy theories about him not wanting to play, and about 'secret surgeries' that are worse than was reported. I've been trying to figure out what was the catalyst for him not to run on the 10th. Did he wake up and not feel right? From all reports he hasn't felt a day of pain since the surgery. Was biking the next day. was taking light bp recently. So why did he not run? Was there a test? Did he put pressure on the knee and the doctors not like his response? Are they being super-insane cautious with it? I've never been able to gleen what exactly would be required for him to resume baseball activities and I actually had hope that he'd be back in early may/late April at one point. At this point, until he runs and reports no pain/setbacks from that, it's hard to count on him for anything. I also think that if he has even one setback from that day, when he actually runs (provided that's soon), you bring up Fernando Martinez. (Provided he's still hitting well in the minors) I also use this philosophy with Murphy, who we should also have a date on soon. If he has a setback or say, he won't be back for the Phillies series, get me Ike. (Or at least Evans/Carter/Hessman/Keith instead of Jacobs or Cat)

Edgy DC Apr 18 2010 10:38 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Conspiracy theories don't need information or lack of information. They just need untrusting (or crazy) people. I assume there's plenty we don't know. I assume there's plenty the Mets don't know, the doctors don't know, and Carlos doesn't know. In the absence of facts, I'll work with what I've got and consider what's put forth on the basis of avialable evidence. But thinking what's being sold to you is unlikely doesn't mean you have to construct a (usually far more unikely) alternative theory. Just try and prepare for all possible eventualities, starting with the most likely.

Mex17 Apr 18 2010 01:30 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Conspiracy theories notwithstanding, I find it curious that, given. . . a) It looks like it's possible Beltran is either permanently damaged, twerked off at the Mets to the point that he may want to end the relationship as soon as he can, or both and b) Francoeur seems to be maturing as a player a bit more than he was . . .that the Mets seem to insist upon looking at Fernando Martinez as a rightfielder as opposed to a centerfielder.

Edgy DC Apr 18 2010 01:41 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

twerked off at the Mets to the point that he may want to end the relationship as soon as he can, or both Highly speculative. It's not like playing Martinez on the corner right now means he can never play center.

Ashie62 Apr 19 2010 11:07 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I'm beginning to feel like I don't care when or if Beltran comes back at all.

Edgy DC Apr 20 2010 04:55 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I care.

Ashie62 Apr 20 2010 05:58 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Edgy DC wrote: I care. I know that I should care. It's nothing against Carlos, I just feel burned out by the speculation of when he will return. Part of me is very content with Angel Pagan out there.

soupcan Apr 20 2010 06:13 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Ashie62 wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I care. I know that I should care. It's nothing against Carlos, I just feel burned out by the speculation of when he will return. Part of me is very content with Angel Pagan out there. I don't understand how a Met fan can be 'content' with Pagan out there. The team is 5-8 and not hitting. They NEED Beltran.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2010 06:46 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Pagan is doing a nice job as a sub, but he's no Carlos Beltran. Getting Carlos back as soon as possible would go a long way to making something out of this season.

Centerfield Apr 20 2010 07:15 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Certainly, but I can see where Ashie is coming from about being tired of the whole process. We've been back and forth on Beltran so many times over the past year, there would be some small relief in hearing "micro-fracture surgery, Met career likely over". But that would be very, very small. I'm rooting like hell for Carlos to get back as well. Maybe I'm a moron, but I think I've convinced myself that if Beltran gets back healthy, and Davis works out, and Francoeur keeps hitting, that maybe the Mets can contend for the Wild Card...

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2010 07:18 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

And if we continue to get good outings from Pelfrey, Niese, and Perez, then yes, I think the playoffs are a possibility. It's a lot of ifs, but sometimes there are seasons when just about everything goes right. All we can do is hope that this turns out to be one of them.

soupcan Apr 20 2010 07:27 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Agree with both of you on all counts. If the starters can somehow keep this going, I have to believe that with Wright, Bay, Francoeur, Reyes and eventually a healthy Beltran, that this team can provide some offense, win some games and maybe give us an interesting summer. But then again the Mets haven't hit with RISP for about 2 years now, right? Other than the law of averages why should I think that'll change?

Edgy DC Apr 20 2010 07:31 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Mebbe Jerry will stop bunting. I think that's connected to the whole RISP-y thing. That and the injuries.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 20 2010 07:48 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Edgy DC wrote: Mebbe Jerry will stop bunting. I think that's connected to the whole RISP-y thing. That and the injuries. That, the injuries and Rod Barajas, you mean. He hasn't walked once this year and gotten to ball 3 only 3 times. He is outmaking at 81%.

attgig Apr 20 2010 07:55 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Ashie62 wrote: Part of me is very content with Angel Pagan out there. I think that's the part in all of us who saw GMJ out there for the first few games... sure, stacked up against GMJ, Pagan is the superstar CF that the team had been missing.... but, I miss beltran.

attgig Apr 20 2010 07:56 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Mebbe Jerry will stop bunting. I think that's connected to the whole RISP-y thing. That and the injuries. That, the injuries and Rod Barajas, you mean. He hasn't walked once this year and gotten to ball 3 only 3 times. He is outmaking at 81%. speaking of barajas seems to only hit fly balls. what's up with that?

Edgy DC Apr 20 2010 08:15 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Mebbe Jerry will stop bunting. I think that's connected to the whole RISP-y thing. That and the injuries. That, the injuries and Rod Barajas, you mean. He hasn't walked once this year and gotten to ball 3 only 3 times. He is outmaking at 81%. Yeah, though Barajas hasn't been around for 2 years. Of course, he may have been around and calling himself Brian Schneider. I realized this morning while filling out my PotG ballot that I haven't really mentally accepted Barajas as a Met yet, and I'm usually really quick with this. I ticked off everything I know about him: [list][*]Good defense.[/*:m] [*]Good against the running game (but not as good as Blanco).[/*:m] [*]Puncher's power.[/*:m] [*]Makes outs like nobody's business.[/*:m] [*]Funny California dude.[/*:m] [*]Has to position himself like a tight end to jump and stretch to catch Francoeur's throws and then dive for the tag.[/*:m][/list:u] And yet, he's still not really a Met in my head. Why is that? I've certainly made the adjustment with suckier guys and creepier guys.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 20 2010 08:26 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Mebbe Jerry will stop bunting. I think that's connected to the whole RISP-y thing. That and the injuries. That, the injuries and Rod Barajas, you mean. He hasn't walked once this year and gotten to ball 3 only 3 times. He is outmaking at 81%. Y'know how a few of us were arguing pretty mightily against Molina, because he uppercuts the hell out of everything, and outmakes (I like this word) so frequently that it actually mitigates anything positive he might do around the batter's quadrangular area? And how he's shit on the basepaths, and maybe not nearly as good defensively as his rep? And how he's definitely not worth a 6-7 million dollar deal, much less a 2-year/12-million one? Onfield, Barajas is the discount version of the exact. same. guy. (A lower contact rate, which isn't so good. A few more flyballs, though, so fewer DPs. That's nice.) ("Puncher's power" is pretty much his only offensive plus. And G-d help me, but I like the Tony Gonzalez bit when he blocks the plate. )

soupcan Apr 20 2010 09:27 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: And G-d help me, but I like the Tony Gonzalez bit when he blocks the plate. ) Remember the Nats game before the Willingham grand slam was actually determined to be a homerun and Adam Dunn came barreling into Barajas at full-speed? Hot Rod got absolutely clobbered and just shook it the hell off.

Fman99 Apr 20 2010 09:46 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Mebbe Jerry will stop bunting. I think that's connected to the whole RISP-y thing. That and the injuries. That, the injuries and Rod Barajas, you mean. He hasn't walked once this year and gotten to ball 3 only 3 times. He is outmaking at 81%. Y'know how a few of us were arguing pretty mightily against Molina, because he uppercuts the hell out of everything, and outmakes (I like this word) so frequently that it actually mitigates anything positive he might do around the batter's quadrangular area? And how he's shit on the basepaths, and maybe not nearly as good defensively as his rep? And how he's definitely not worth a 6-7 million dollar deal, much less a 2-year/12-million one? Onfield, Barajas is the discount version of the exact. same. guy. (A lower contact rate, which isn't so good. A few more flyballs, though, so fewer DPs. That's nice.) ("Puncher's power" is pretty much his only offensive plus. And G-d help me, but I like the Tony Gonzalez bit when he blocks the plate. ) I think it's because of the discount that I like him. If you got a Big Mac for 25 cents, it'd still be a fatty slimy mess, but you'd feel better about scarfing it down, wouldn't you?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 20 2010 10:31 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Fman99 wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Mebbe Jerry will stop bunting. I think that's connected to the whole RISP-y thing. That and the injuries. That, the injuries and Rod Barajas, you mean. He hasn't walked once this year and gotten to ball 3 only 3 times. He is outmaking at 81%. Y'know how a few of us were arguing pretty mightily against Molina, because he uppercuts the hell out of everything, and outmakes (I like this word) so frequently that it actually mitigates anything positive he might do around the batter's quadrangular area? And how he's shit on the basepaths, and maybe not nearly as good defensively as his rep? And how he's definitely not worth a 6-7 million dollar deal, much less a 2-year/12-million one? Onfield, Barajas is the discount version of the exact. same. guy. (A lower contact rate, which isn't so good. A few more flyballs, though, so fewer DPs. That's nice.) ("Puncher's power" is pretty much his only offensive plus. And G-d help me, but I like the Tony Gonzalez bit when he blocks the plate. ) I think it's because of the discount that I like him. If you got a Big Mac for 25 cents, it'd still be a fatty slimy mess, but you'd feel better about scarfing it down, wouldn't you? Agreed. Much less nose-holding involved than we probably would have if Molina had come to town for 2 years-plus. (Literally, too-- Tubby squatting 150 times a game's got to give off one hell of a waft, y'know?) I just meant that if anyone here is looking for more than rally-killing pop-ups and Ks with occasional power from LeRod, you're shopping at the wrong store, bud.

metirish Apr 20 2010 07:45 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Per Gary, Beltran saw Steadman and the news is that Beltran is not yet ready for " baseball activities".

Fman99 Apr 20 2010 08:03 PM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

But what does Oprah think?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 21 2010 12:23 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

metirish wrote: Per Gary, Beltran saw Steadman and the news is that Beltran is not yet ready for " baseball activities". Cripes. Good thing he came back to brighten that unforgettable September 2009.

Edgy DC Apr 21 2010 05:19 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Marty Noble prints the party line but examines it without enthusiasm. Marty wrote: NEW YORK -- The Mets announced Tuesday that Carlos Beltran was "making progress" in rehabbing his surgically repaired right knee. Whatever that vague declaration suggested, it hardly prompted rejoicing in the organization. Beltran remains unfit for baseball activities -- i.e., running. At one point, Beltran believed he'd resume running by mid-April. "That's kind of unfortunate," Mets manager Jerry Manuel said. "What we have to do is we have to continue to play the way we have in the last three or four games and hope that Carlos begins to recover quickly. I mean, he's obviously an integral part." Beltran was examined in Vail, Colo., on Tuesday by the doctor who performed his surgery in January. His return by mid-May, once considered likely by the club, now seems less likely.

soupcan Apr 21 2010 07:03 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

It just means he'll be back 2-3 weeks later than we originally thought. Lousy, but I'm not jumping off any bridges...yet. I am hoping this doesn't become a Reyes situation like last year, where they keep telling us 'oh just a few more weeks' and then he's out all year.

Ceetar Apr 21 2010 08:14 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

soupcan wrote: It just means he'll be back 2-3 weeks later than we originally thought. Lousy, but I'm not jumping off any bridges...yet. I am hoping this doesn't become a Reyes situation like last year, where they keep telling us 'oh just a few more weeks' and then he's out all year. At least. Of course, they didn't exactly say why. I know i'm no doctor, but what was the measurement/analysis? scar tissue in the knee? what sort of tests? does it look to be 'almost' healed? So really there is no timeline or date yet. Did the Mets really announce the setback with the words "making progress"?

Edgy DC Apr 21 2010 08:18 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I'm preparing myself to go forward without him. Pagan's the centerfielder, and Martinez's job is to try and take Gary Matthews' job away.

Ashie62 Apr 21 2010 08:24 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

You go with what you have. I have mentally pegged Pagan as the 2010 CF so i don't have to be invested in the trial and tribulations of Beltran's knee.

TransMonk Apr 21 2010 08:33 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I'm fine with Pagan in center. My problem is the only backup in the organization to Angel is GMJ. Pagan hasn't been the healthiest player in Mets history. If F-Mart can't play center and Beltran's not coming back anytime soon, we need a better back up than GMJ.

Edgy DC Apr 21 2010 08:42 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I think it's true that Martinez's best position isn't center. I don't think it's true that he can't play center. Neither Bay, Francoeur, Matthews, nor Martinez would likely be seen as a defensive asset in center, but I think enough faking it can go around to justify playing any of them once a week. If not, we end up hoping Pridie or Feliciano have enough stick to play there once a week. The key, of course, is Pagan not getting hurt.

Ceetar Apr 21 2010 08:50 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Edgy DC wrote: I think it's true that Martinez's best position isn't center. I don't think it's true that he can't play center. I've always took "The Mets see him as a corner outfielder" to mean that they're expecting Beltran to be in Center, and they see Fernando's place on the team being in right.

metirish Apr 21 2010 08:51 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

Pagan hitting third is the new thing now that Reyes has given his disapproval to the idea of him doing it. Lennon has Manuel all but admitting that Reyes batting third is now on the dung pile , Pagan ,Wright and Bay as the 3,4 and 5 guys.

Edgy DC Apr 21 2010 08:56 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

He's young. If his wheels are healthy, I can't see any reason why not. Not a lot of teams have likely lost pennants because their backup centerfielder wasn't an a defensive asset. Darryl back up Mookie back in 1984 and even 1985. Carl Yastrzemski backed up Fred Lynn on the 1978 Sawx.

TransMonk Apr 21 2010 09:03 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

An average NL CFer in 2009 put up: .268/.339/.424/.762, 16 HR, 68 RBI I think Pagan can match or exceed those numbers as a full time player. Francoeur will need to pick up some of the Beltran lost power, which isn't impossible.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 21 2010 09:40 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

TransMonk wrote: An average NL CFer in 2009 put up: .268/.339/.424/.762, 16 HR, 68 RBI I think Pagan can match or exceed those numbers as a full time player. Francoeur will need to pick up some of the Beltran lost power, which isn't impossible. Yabbut, an average NL CFer circa 2009 put up numbers well beyond French's .280/.309/.423/.732 (much less RFers, who averaged .277/.363/.466/.829). Assuming Delgado-Bay is a push (approximately) the onus is on the Ikes and Rods of the lineup to replace the lost power.

Edgy DC Apr 21 2010 09:44 AM Re: The Beltran Situation: What Next?

I don't want to tell him and maybe make him shakey, but there is quite the onus on young Ike. For what it's worth, he's already tops great ranking of Mets Named Ike. [list=1:1fh7oo7t][*:1fh7oo7t]Davis, 2010[/*:m:1fh7oo7t] [*:1fh7oo7t]Hampton, 1974[/*:m:1fh7oo7t][/list:o:1fh7oo7t]