Master Index of Archived Threads


Casual non-poll

Kong76 Jan 14 2010 08:54 PM

I mean really, how pissed off of Mets' fan are you? Add one (or two) short thoughts at a time ... The thought of Figgy being our fifth starter is pretty freakin' funny, but hopefully he'll just be cut by the end of spring training. The over-coverage of EVERYTHING is mind numbing.

A Boy Named Seo Jan 14 2010 09:43 PM Re: Casual non-poll

Nah. I want good things from them, but pissed isn't where I live. I get none of the coverage or over-coverage you guys get, so that maybe helps. Dunno, it's never been a part of my life. Go Mets. Do better.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 14 2010 10:03 PM Re: Casual non-poll

I'm sort of embarrassed to know how any event large or small just catches fire in front of their faces. The media and fan base are so easy to incite, and they do it every time. That said, till last night I was excited for the season and still want to be.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2010 04:22 AM Re: Casual non-poll

A little discouraged by the Beltran thing, but not pissed. I don't see any reason to be. I'm also dismayed by the overreactions and the angst and all that. I can understand why Mets fans are perceived to be a bunch of ninnies; we publicly display our ninniness.

metirish Jan 15 2010 04:30 AM Re: Casual non-poll

I reside somewhere between Seo and Ashie and the pissed scale...yesterday I thought the Mets handled the PR correctly but now I'm not so sure , Beltran says Minaya knew Tuesday that he was having the procedure and wished him well.It is all a little embarrassing.

G-Fafif Jan 15 2010 05:23 AM Re: Casual non-poll

Nah, not pissed. Not disappointed, either, let alone devastated. Mainly discouraged for the tangible reasons of being without a key component of the lineup for an indeterminate period of time. I had actually been detecting unvarnished shards of optimism in my Met anticipation because of Jason Bay; I hadn't felt this Met-optimistic (which is to say at all) in quite a while. Now I'm a little less optimistic, pending further roster construction. And again annoyed that management allowed this runaway story to gain traction. When it first saw light Wednesday night, the status of Beltran was coupled immediately with the team's being unhappy about the process. That implies somebody in management was leaking that angle pretty aggressively, as if it was important for the world to know Beltran (or Boras) was doing something wrong. It implies, too, that management had gone into its default CYA mode lest they take more heat over their medical team/medical track record (Mets, again, coming off as more concerned with seeming like they know what they're doing rather than actually knowing what they're doing). "He did this without their permission," of course, became the story as much as the operation and resulting time missed. Then it becomes here we go again, which will wear down a Mets fan some. Beltran's camp, legitimately in my opinion, issuing a statement contradicting the Mets' characterization of Carlos as some kind of renegade arthroscope-seeking malcontent only makes the whole thing look even more like one of those carnivals that takes over our LIRR station's parking lot a couple of weekends every summer: you've seen it before, it's not much fun and you wish it would move on because all you want to do is find a space and get to the game. It doesn't quite add up to pissed. It would actually be quite amusing if it were happening to some other team. Alas, it is not.

themetfairy Jan 15 2010 05:37 AM Re: Casual non-poll

Very well stated G-Fafif. Once again you're able to find words to express what I could not on my own.

Fman99 Jan 15 2010 06:48 AM Re: Casual non-poll

[quote="G-Fafif"]Nah, not pissed. Not disappointed, either, let alone devastated. Mainly discouraged for the tangible reasons of being without a key component of the lineup for an indeterminate period of time. I had actually been detecting unvarnished shards of optimism in my Met anticipation because of Jason Bay; I hadn't felt this Met-optimistic (which is to say at all) in quite a while. Now I'm a little less optimistic, pending further roster construction. And again annoyed that management allowed this runaway story to gain traction. When it first saw light Wednesday night, the status of Beltran was coupled immediately with the team's being unhappy about the process. That implies somebody in management was leaking that angle pretty aggressively, as if it was important for the world to know Beltran (or Boras) was doing something wrong. It implies, too, that management had gone into its default CYA mode lest they take more heat over their medical team/medical track record (Mets, again, coming off as more concerned with seeming like they know what they're doing rather than actually knowing what they're doing). "He did this without their permission," of course, became the story as much as the operation and resulting time missed. Then it becomes here we go again, which will wear down a Mets fan some. Beltran's camp, legitimately in my opinion, issuing a statement contradicting the Mets' characterization of Carlos as some kind of renegade arthroscope-seeking malcontent only makes the whole thing look even more like one of those carnivals that takes over our LIRR station's parking lot a couple of weekends every summer: you've seen it before, it's not much fun and you wish it would move on because all you want to do is find a space and get to the game. It doesn't quite add up to pissed. It would actually be quite amusing if it were happening to some other team. Alas, it is not.

Yeah, it's gay.

dgwphotography Jan 15 2010 06:58 AM Re: Casual non-poll

I'm not pissed, but resigned to the fact that what ails the team I love can't be fired.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 15 2010 07:04 AM Re: Casual non-poll

I echo the "discouraged/annoyed" sentiment. For me to be truly angry, I'd have to be surprised or have expected more. The organization's done a pretty good job of consistently revising my expectations downward, so it's tough to claim being caught unaware-- even if you don't know the details of a particular bomb about to drop, it feels like you should know better than to expect the best. Being a fan of a large professional team like this is something like having a talented, mild sociopath for a child. You love this team, this collection of men and sweat-wicking technicolor laundry, and when it does well, it brings you a sense of pleasure and pride. When it does poorly, when it hurts, when it suffers humiliation in the public eye, you feel the defensive pangs of complete ownership and devotion. You do this all the while knowing that, while they may make a good show of it sometimes, they don't care about your opinion, much less about you, excepting that which they can get from you. Like parent knows child, we know this organization at this point... and we know what to expect. Ours is a bit of a bumbler. If there's anyone at whom I'm feeling something more intense than "annoyed," it's myself... It's times like these that make me wonder whether I'd have been better served getting hooked on the violin or model-building as a 5-year-old instead. And yet, even as I berate myself for daydreaming about successful surgery for extremely wealthy strangers and having a closet full of blue and orange and white, I continue to care. Because that's what we do.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2010 07:07 AM Re: Casual non-poll

The only way the Mets could make me angry is if they ill-treated me at the ballpark, or if they sent Mr. Met to my house to kick my dog.

TransMonk Jan 15 2010 07:18 AM Re: Casual non-poll

I'm disappointed, annoyed and not quite angry. Still...I can't wait for opening day.

metirish Jan 15 2010 07:22 AM Re: Casual non-poll

[quote="TransMonk":216jlmw3]I'm disappointed, annoyed and not quite angry. Still...I can't wait for opening day.[/quote:216jlmw3] Yep , I was thinking this morning that it won't be long now until players start reporting for Spring Training....a little over a month for the Mets http://springtrainingonline.com/feature ... -dates.htm First game March 2nd.......not long at all http://www.springtrainingonline.com/fea ... hedule.htm

Frayed Knot Jan 15 2010 07:30 AM Re: Casual non-poll

I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused -- D.P. McManus And as frustrating as these pr gaffs are, to some extent I actually get a kick out of folks who over-react to them. Talk radio callers saying that they're done with Met-dom after however many years based on something that's not only out of their control but has little or no effect on on-field stuff usually make me smile a bit. "Good", I say. Better seats for me and I don't have to worry about hurting myself doing all that jumping off and on the bandwagon.

Edgy DC Jan 15 2010 07:38 AM Re: Casual non-poll

Uncharitable over-reactions to stuff by Met fans embarass me more than the management ever has. At least since 1977. It's just a show, unwritten drama. One team wins, and 29 lose. Try and find a way to enjoy the dips and curves in the ride, because you're typically going to be rooting for one of those 29. I read a story yesterday about an online fan group of the Washington Wizards called Wizznutz. Into this cursed franchise had come a funny, interesting, different, intelligent and dynamically talented player named Gilbert Arenas. They adored having this guy to follow, and they made up strange hilarious existential dramas in which he appearred under the name "Agent Zero." When the Washington Post tried a project in which they asked Arenas which nickname he favored that fans were using for him, they showed him a list and he went nuts for "Agent Zero." He ordered thousands of tee-shirts with the name and started throwing them to the crowd during the All-Star workout. And they loved it! They didn't think for a minute, "Hey, that's ours! Where's our piece of the pie?" They were content, as fans, to think they had a positive influence on the culture of the team. Now, if you haven't heard what's happened with Arenas, well, it's all gone horribly wrong. And they're horribly disappointed. Amazon.com is still taking preorders for Arenas' book (due in May), Score Like Agent Zero, but it will likely be scrapped. But if that's the sort of thing that's got them down, that's OK. They were part of a culture, and rather than demanding more from it, they tried to lift it themselves. Good. You read any Facebook posts from Yankee fans after they won the World Series? Within hours (minutes?) of them winning a 27th title, they were demanding a 28th. That shit --- that's what embarasses me.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2010 07:43 AM Re: Casual non-poll

[quote="Edgy DC":3r8yefpn]It's just a show, unwritten drama. One team wins, and 29 lose. Try and find a way to enjoy the dips and curves in the ride, because you're typically going to be rooting for one of those 29. [/quote:3r8yefpn] Nicely put. That's pretty much how I look at it.

Centerfield Jan 15 2010 07:58 AM Re: Casual non-poll

You guys take things well. I am outright annoyed and frustrated. And quite frankly, embarrassed to be a Mets fan. Part of my frustration, of course, is due to the injuries, and the shitty season we had in 2009...some of that being beyond the Mets' control. Adding to that the frustrating ends in 2007 and 2008, I'm willing to concede I'm pretty irritable to begin with. That being said, I am most annoyed with the following things that are 100% within the control of the front office and management. 1. Off-Season Strategy: Time and again, I feel like this management team only applies band-aids to the most glaring of problems. They exhibit no creativity, and as such, miss ways to improve the team, as opposed to simply patching the biggest problems. I've talked about Texiera and Adrian Gonzalez. I look at a team like Boston that has Youkilis and Lowell, yet they made a run at both of these players. And yes, they did not land them, but at least they tried. They would never say "We have Delgado, so let's not make a play at Texiera." They know that having an incumbent in place is no reason not to try to make a move to improve the team. I look at rightfield for the Mets. They have made no attempt to upgrade that position despite having a guy who's career OPS is in the low 700's. This is inane to me. I am sick of having a C student run the team. Get me someone smart. 2. Medical: There have been more than a few reports now (add Beltran to the list) where surgery has been recommended for players by the Medical staff, only to have management tell them to delay and rest. This is insanely dumb. If the doctors feel the player needs surgery, let them have the surgery. Especially if this problem arose in November. It is simply idiotic to wait as the recovery time eats into more of the season. 3. PR: Unlike the other two, PR probably means little to the overall wins and losses of the team, but it's worth mentioning because it is the arena in which they look the most incompetent. Let me reiterate that, they are incompetent. As lacking as they are in the other two points I mention, nothing compares to how amazingly they fuck up PR. It is inconceivable that they would go public with their gripes about Beltran without checking: (a) Did we send the paperwork ok-ing the surgery? (b) Did he talk to our GM who said he could go ahead with the surgery? (c) Did our own doctor agree with the assessment? And if they did check these things, and they did know that paperwork was sent, Minaya ok'ed it, and Altcheck agreed with the diagnosis, then they are dumber than dumb. All of this simply makes them look like idiots. The Rubin fiasco, this pointing of fingers. Everyone makes fun of NBC....they may make stupid decisions but at least everyone is on the same page. If the Mets, instead of being a ballclub, were a company that offered some sort of trade, would you hire them? Would you trust them to paint your house? They'd wait until an hour before the deadline to start, use the wrong color paint, then point fingers at each other as to who fucked it up.

Ashie62 Jan 15 2010 08:13 AM Re: Casual non-poll

I get pissed off, then frustrated and 24 hours later resigned. What bothers me the most is the manager & GM weren't booted after 2007 can't wait for spring training!

TransMonk Jan 15 2010 08:17 AM Re: Casual non-poll

"...fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me — You can't get fooled again."

seawolf17 Jan 15 2010 08:25 AM Re: Casual non-poll

[quote="Benjamin Grimm"]The only way the Mets could make me angry is ... if they sent Mr. Met to my house to kick my dog.

Seriously? Send Jeff Wilpon a Benjamin and a note asking him to and he'll totally do it.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 15 2010 08:49 AM Re: Casual non-poll

It's ironic that some of Small Time Crooks was flmed at Shea Stadium because the Mets owners bear a strong resemblance to the characters portrayed by Woody Allen and Tracey Ulllman in that movie: the Wilpons are socially inept, cheesy, tasteless people, clearly out of their element as baseball owners, but with more baseball money than just about everybody else. I'm not a frustrated or even annoyed fan. I've come to realize that the Wilpon era is a dysfunctional one and that a Mets baseball season couldn't happen without episodes like this latest one involving Beltran's surgery. And though I'm not above posting some snarky or cynical thing about it, I'm not losing a second of sleep over it either. To me, this is nothing more than comic relief. [quote="Edgy DC"]It's just a show, unwritten drama. One team wins, and 29 lose. Try and find a way to enjoy the dips and curves in the ride, because you're typically going to be rooting for one of those 29.

I agree with this, but only to a point. The Mets have won but one World Series in the last 40 years. This would be acceptable if you believe that in the big picture and over the long haul, every franchise has the same chance of winning the WS. But I don't. I believe that there must be some significant competitive advantage to being the lone NL baseball franchise in New York City and having more money than just about everybody else. And so while on the one hand, I'm reasonable enough to understand and accept losing, I also wonder if there is too much losing going on here given the Mets socio-economic standing in the baseball universe. The MFY's, by comparison, have been to the post-season eight times since beating the Mets in the 2000 WS; that's one more post-season appearance than the Mets have in their entire history --- and without having to mine the past accomplishments of Ruth and Gehrig and Dimaggio, et. al.

MFS62 Jan 15 2010 08:55 AM Re: Casual non-poll

I'm not pissed at all about the surgery. This is arthroscopy to clean out stuff after prior surgery. Happens all the time. Its not (knocking on wood) a fucking amputation. It most likely had to be done anyhow. And if it was necessary, Beltran would have been lost for the same number of games no matter who performed it. What made this the shitstorm that it is was the choice of doctors, and the (my words) paranoid and oversensitive Mets management who felt this would re-kindle the stories about the quality of team medical treatment that started last year. So now they are trying to portray themselves as the injured party. And it is about the management of this that I am disgusted, rather then being pissed to any degree. Later

metsmarathon Jan 15 2010 09:09 AM Re: Casual non-poll

i'm annoyed that, yet again, i have to hear about how embarrassed i should be to be a mets fan. i'm disappointed that the team has put itself in this situation yet again. and i'm discouraged that the braintrust continues to reveal neither brains nor trustworthiness. but most of all, i keep hoping they will succeed despite their best efforts to the contrary.

Edgy DC Jan 15 2010 09:12 AM Re: Casual non-poll

[quote="batmagadanleadoff":kl6ylfxj]This would be acceptable if you believe that in the big picture and over the long haul, every franchise has the same chance of winning the WS.[/quote:kl6ylfxj] The market advantage of New York --- which, though a reality, we are not entitled to (and I highly despise) --- factored in, you're still typically going to be rooting for one of the 29 losers. Even Yankee fans, most typically, will find themselves rooting for one of the 29 losers.

Ceetar Jan 15 2010 09:22 AM Re: Casual non-poll

I'm kinda annoyed taht Omar still apparently has no full autonomy because while more ideas can be helpful in some regards, you still need one guy running the show and it's obviously not the case. I'm annoyed that they took a month from initial diagnosis until surgery. They should've set the date earlier so there was a higher probability Beltran was ready for Opening Day. but overall, whatever. Sign a pitcher and lets get started already. No matter what actually happens the Mets are going to be easy targets and easy stories to write about ineptitude, no matter the facts, because we'll believe them. Lets' get to baseball season so there is something legitimate and positive to talk about, start winning and fire Manuel so that we can get some positive light on the team.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 15 2010 09:23 AM Re: Casual non-poll

[quote="Edgy DC"][quote="batmagadanleadoff"]This would be acceptable if you believe that in the big picture and over the long haul, every franchise has the same chance of winning the WS.

The market advantage of New York --- which, though a reality, we are not entitled to (and I highly despise) --- factored in, you're still typically going to be rooting for one of the 29 losers.

Yes, but my question is: how often should the Mets be one of the 29 losers? We might never know. Until 1977, baseball money mattered less. During the era of free-agency, the Mets are 1-1 in WS play. Those rates are about average for 33 seasons of baseball. But even if we assume that the Mets do have a significant competitive advantage as the wealthy NY NL team, 33 seasons is too small a sample size to determine if the Mets are or aren't exploiting that edge. And I regret to say that by the time the sample size is meaningful enough to analyze, every single member of this forum will be dead.

Kong76 Jan 15 2010 11:00 AM Re: Casual non-poll

Some real quality stuff here from all of you. Thanks for cheering me up. Really.

attgig Jan 15 2010 11:36 AM Re: Casual non-poll

as much as I love the mets, I hate the mets. I love the mets, because of what the mets have been and are supposed to be. I hate the mets because of what they are, and fail to be. I don't understand how 4 letters, blue and orange, and a little logo can evoke such loyalty from me, while the organization as a whole is such a dysfunctional group, poorly managed, and disappoints me over and over again. it's ludicrous how sports fandom (or fanatacism) works, but... here I am, on a message board about our mets.... still loving them.

Edgy DC Jan 15 2010 11:40 AM Re: Casual non-poll

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Angelo Bartlett Giammatti Meanhile, Brad Lidge, who might've made all the difference for the Phils this year, just had his third surgery --- in three months. Two on the knee, one on the elbow. It's a scary world. Negotiate with it as best you can, but control is an illusion.

bmfc1 Jan 15 2010 01:23 PM Re: Casual non-poll

I'm not angry--if I went to say hi to David Wright and he beat the crap out of me and the team did nothing (I just watched "Big Fan"), I'd be angry. But I'm not as philosophical about the team as Edgy--and kudos to him for being so friggin' level-headed--because I'm an emotional fan (perhaps that's redundant), this is my favorite team in my favorite sport, and, while I don't expect it to be our birthright like MFY fans, it would be nice if they won once in a while (29 out of 30 don't win but it would be nice to be The One more than every 20 years or so). It would also be nice if the team's management didn't continuously make a fool of itself, as it did here ("I'll show him who's the boss and who's the employee!"). What also makes this annoying-aggravating (to respond to the original question), is that it occurred on a media day, so instead of the story being Pelfrey losing 20 pounds, Maine being healthy, Wright being confident, etc., the story was Beltran. It's hard to believe that the Wilpons became billionaires with such poor management skills.

Edgy DC Jan 15 2010 01:39 PM Re: Casual non-poll

My feeling is that they're going to rip the team anyhow. They won 71 games while the Yankees won the championship. Ripping them is easy sport. I imagine dozens of humilating things happened off the field to the Yankees, and dozens more that can be spun as embarassing if they were as easy a target. But bashing the Yankees wasn't as profitible as bashing the Mets this year.

RealityChuck Jan 15 2010 01:46 PM Re: Casual non-poll

[quote="Edgy DC"]Uncharitable over-reactions to stuff by Met fans embarass me more than the management ever has.

Agree 100%.

Too many Mets fans are Yankee fan wannabes; they don't like the MFY, but want the Mets to behave in exactly the same way.

The Beltran situation is a tempest in an eyecup.

Ceetar Jan 15 2010 02:01 PM Re: Casual non-poll

[quote="RealityChuck"][quote="Edgy DC"]Uncharitable over-reactions to stuff by Met fans embarass me more than the management ever has.

Agree 100%.

Too many Mets fans are Yankee fan wannabes; they don't like the MFY, but want the Mets to behave in exactly the same way.

The Beltran situation is a tempest in an eyecup.

And oddly enough, except for how they announced it, the Beltran situation mimics A-Rods situation last year pretty closely. (Except Beltran isn't a cheater.)

Complaints about how poorly the Mets have released info is one thing, but it's hardly fair to hold up the Yankees as some prime example. Early last year was a completely and utter media disaster for the Yankees. Hello...Torre's book, Robert's book, steroids, temporary hip surgery that may need a more permenant one, Jeter's range (compares to Reyes missing a step after surgery a bit) who's gonna play the outfield, does Nady need another Tommy John how is Posada's shoulder can he throw and on and on and on and on..

attgig Jan 15 2010 02:04 PM Re: Casual non-poll

[quote="Ceetar":12aaqyxa]And oddly enough, except for how they announced it, the Beltran situation mimics A-Rods situation last year pretty closely. (Except Beltran isn't a cheater.) Complaints about how poorly the Mets have released info is one thing, but it's hardly fair to hold up the Yankees as some prime example. Early last year was a completely and utter media disaster for the Yankees. Hello...Torre's book, Robert's book, steroids, temporary hip surgery that may need a more permenant one, Jeter's range (compares to Reyes missing a step after surgery a bit) who's gonna play the outfield, does Nady need another Tommy John how is Posada's shoulder can he throw and on and on and on and on..[/quote:12aaqyxa] except for the part about them winning the world series....

Ceetar Jan 15 2010 02:10 PM Re: Casual non-poll

well yes..of course, the season hasn't started yet. Turns out the quality of your PR dept and how you put out messages and information and the stories people write about you don't translate to wins and losses. Behind C.C. the Yankees had A.J. who many felt could be Pavano part 2, end up injured or not pitch well, Pettitte, who may not last the entire season as he was getting older, the Joba Reliever/Starter/Reliever/Starter/Reliever/Starter/Reliever/Starter/ Rules mess and ..Hughes? Or am I missing someone..oh, right, Wang, the injury mess that ultimately did bomb. All i'm saying is, the season has yet to be played and there _are_ enough upside players on the Mets for them to have the chance at a title.

Centerfield Jan 15 2010 02:18 PM Re: Casual non-poll

They're not being ripped because they lost lots of games. They're being ripped because they called out their star centerfielder for insubordination, when in fact, it was their own internal communication that broke down. They're being mocked because they failed to recognize this before going public with their accusations...accusations that do little good, even if true. They may be an easy target, but that doesn't mean they should get a pass for their idiocy. I know full well the odds of winning a World Series. Failing to win a World Series is not my beef with them. I would like them to stop acting like a bunch of dumb fucks.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 15 2010 02:24 PM Re: Casual non-poll

That's not too much to ask. Beltran clearly has lost faith with the Mets doctors. I once had a doctor that I lost faith with, and went to someone else. The need to have confidence and trust in your doctor is not insignificant. The Mets should understand and respect this. Apparently the Mets wanted to do more of the "wait and see" which worked out so poorly last year. Beltran lost half a season with that approach, and he didn't want to have that happen again. I'm glad he got the surgery. It's rather see him miss four weeks of the season by being proactive, against the chance of him missing twelve or more weeks by "waiting and seeing."

Ceetar Jan 15 2010 02:26 PM Re: Casual non-poll

I was responding to RealityChuck about the Yankee parallels. I agree It'd be nice if they'd stop with the stupidness. I don't really care much though, as long as they get a pitcher and do the baseball thing. Manuel manages and releases information in a horrible, disasterous method too and people just laugh at him, so I guess it's no surprise they didn't fire him. He fits right in.

G-Fafif Jan 15 2010 03:02 PM Re: Casual non-poll

[quote="bmfc1":1stuouii]What also makes this annoying-aggravating (to respond to the original question), is that it occurred on a media day, so instead of the story being Pelfrey losing 20 pounds, Maine being healthy, Wright being confident, etc., the story was Beltran.[/quote:1stuouii] The Mets do lead the league in unfortunate irony. Aggravating: an excellent word for these types of situations.