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The Pen in Ten

Edgy DC Jan 28 2010 02:55 PM

Don't think we had a thread on this, but apparently Josh Fogg is under consideration. He's coming off a good year in Colorado, but doesn't whiff too many, so I guess he's a groundball specialist, though I don't know necessarily what a good GB/FB ratio looks like. He better get a good defense behind him if he becomes a Met. His starting days are likely behind him, which is probably for the best for all involved.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 28 2010 03:31 PM Re: The 2010 Pen

Brandon Webb's the freakish extreme-- 3.00 and above, usually. Guys like Pineiro, Lowe, Wang and Aaron Cook (and Feliciano!) are around the low-to-mid 2s. Fogg's 1.17 G/F ratio is average, with a slight GB lean. And his fielding-independent pitching numbers from last year-- as you might imagine would be the case for someone who seems to pitch exclusively to contact-- are kinda... em... not so good. (5.29 FIP, 3.94 BB/9!)

metirish Jan 28 2010 04:49 PM Re: The 2010 Pen

If Neive and or Figgy don't make it as starters wouldn't they be a better bet for the pen, long men types which is what I'd think Fogg would be doing. What are we looking for here? , Parnell and the japanese guy hopefully are the bridge to Rodriguez , Feliciano as the lefty specialist for his primary role. Escobar, where does he fit in? , we need that long guy and whatelse. I know I am forgetting someone.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 28 2010 05:05 PM Re: The 2010 Pen

If Escobar's got his mojo* workin', I think he'd work as the primary bridge to Rodriguez. Velocity or no, Parnell's got nothing on him, K-wise. *By "mojo," I mean "shoulder."

metirish Jan 28 2010 05:07 PM Re: The 2010 Pen

You're correct , I guess that's what they are betting on. Jerry likes Parnell though.

MFS62 Jan 29 2010 09:48 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Yikes! I was able to finally get to baseball reference.com Fogg hasn't been good even when he was "good": http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... jo01.shtml Pass, Omar, please. Edit: too late. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/new_york_mets/ Later

Edgy DC Jan 29 2010 10:35 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Minor league deal. Great.

MFS62 Jan 29 2010 10:40 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Edgy DC wrote: Minor league deal. Great. At least it doesn't mess up those 40 man rosters you work so hard on. Later

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 29 2010 10:40 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

I always confuse Josh Fogg for Kip Wells, for whom he was once traded.

Edgy DC Jan 29 2010 10:42 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

I keep camp invites on those charts also. But seriously, folks, Buffalo needs arms also.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 29 2010 10:58 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I always confuse Josh Fogg for Kip Wells, for whom he was once traded. No sh*t? Same here. Except Jason Jennings* is in that same mental space for me as well, the Bill Petersen to Fogg-and-Wells' Pullman and Paxton. *OE: From the NFW department: Josh Fogg's number one B-R.com Similarity-Score match. That's just spooky.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 29 2010 11:16 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

wOw.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 12 2010 12:28 PM I Can't Get No Relief: Bullpen 2010

A scrum of 20-plus enter, 6-7 men leave to go north. With less than a week until pitchers and catchers report, here's where the 'pen seems to stand (lefties get a star, with tossers in each category listed in rough speculative order re: the solidity/likelihood of their roster spot): INCUMBENTS Francisco Rodriguez (Ain't going nowhere.) Pedro Feliciano* (Hopefully, ain't going nowhere.) Sean Green (If there were an Aaron Heilman Sad-Bastard Honorary Slot, he'd be even more of a sure thing.) Bobby Parnell (The accent's adorable. The lack of a real secondary pitch... increasingly less so.) INFLEXIBLE NEWBS Ryota Igarashi (2-year commitment probably makes him a slightly-surer thing than...) Kelvim Escobar (Really, a sure thing until the wing falls off. In June.) STARTERS WHO COULD FAIL SIDEWARD Fernando Nieve (Does he stay in the 'pen as a swingman if he's beaten out for the 5th slot?) Hisanori Takahashi* ("Like Moyer, but faster," say optimistic scouts. So, much more hittable, then?) Nelson Figueroa (Am I obligated to write "Sentimental Favorite" before his name? I feel like I am.) Pat Misch* Josh Fogg (God help us.) BUFFALO/BINGHAMTON BUS PASS CLUB Clint Everts (Am I obligated to write "Former First-Rounder" before HIS name?) Elmer Dessens (No, por favor.) Eddie Kunz (According to beat reporter/job lobbyist Adam Rubin, actually in the best shape of his life.) Arturo Lopez* Jay Marshall* Carlos Muniz Eric Niesen* Jack Egbert R. A. Dickey Travis Blackley* Who stays? Who goes? Who cares? Who knows?

Ceetar Feb 12 2010 12:41 PM Re: I Can't Get No Relief: Bullpen 2010

Probably the first six are marginally safe as long as they don't suck. With the 7th slot being whoever is doing best in Spring, with a weighted average for a lefty that can get Ryan Howard out.(wait, that might be all of them. But I'm sure that they'll try to add a second lefty)

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 12 2010 12:43 PM Re: I Can't Get No Relief: Bullpen 2010

Egbert's been DFAed but I would guess he resurfaces and signs a Minor League deal. He's here only because the Mets are obligated to offer employment to all baseball-playing New Yorkers at some point in their careers. I'd guess Nieve is more bullpenny than Niese. I'd love to see them create some payroll room by trading Rodriguez.

Edgy DC Feb 12 2010 12:44 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Merged. John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'd guess Nieve is more bullpenny than Niese. Nonetheless, I think he currently tops the list of people Jerry Manuel is mumbling about for opening the season as the fifth starter.

metirish Feb 12 2010 12:47 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

No one puts Edgy's thread in a corner.....

Edgy DC Feb 12 2010 12:48 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Or sends it to a coroner.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 12 2010 12:54 PM Re: I Can't Get No Relief: Bullpen 2010

My bad. (I thought there was something here, but did a quick-- and apparently cursory-- scan.) John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Egbert's been DFAed but I would guess he resurfaces and signs a Minor League deal. He's here only because the Mets are obligated to offer employment to all baseball-playing New Yorkers at some point in their careers. I'd guess Nieve is more bullpenny than Niese. I'd love to see them create some payroll room by trading Rodriguez. It seems Egbert still holds an NRI. You and I, JCL, have very similar Frankie daydreams. (Is he a fire-breathing unicorn in yours, too?)

smg58 Feb 12 2010 01:02 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

The good news is we're not lacking in depth. I don't know what kind of quality we have up top though. I think Parnell will be better with an established role, and K-Rod should hopefully bounce back, but I'm not guaranteeing either. I have no idea what to expect from the Japanese guys or from Escobar. I don't think it's unreasonable to hope for two or three guys on that long list to step up their game this year, so at this point I'd say I'm cautiously optimistic about the pen.

Farmer Ted Feb 12 2010 04:18 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Call me crazy, but I think Kelvim is going to come out as the #5 starter when all is said and done. Misch is my sentimental favorite; Figgy gets shipped out with his whiney wife.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 12 2010 05:28 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Why we love Pedro, and should love him more, courtesy of Pat Andriola over at Amazin' Avenue. Sharp. Jorge Cantu is a pretty good hitter. In 2009, he hit .289/.345/.443 for a .788 OPS. However, baseball does not require a pitcher to face Jorge Cantu every at-bat. They'll have to face some better players, and more often some worse players, for an overall average opposing batter much worse than Jorge Cantu. Why is this relevant? Because in 2009 Pedro Feliciano did face Jorge Cantu every time he pitched. Of course not literally, but for pitchers with a minimum of fifty innings pitched, Pedro Feliciano faced hitters with an average OPS higher than any other pitcher in baseball (.796, actually higher than Cantu's). And what did Feliciano do to these hitters? He held them to a .231/.288/.394 average. He basically turned Jorge Cantu into a worse version of Omir Santos. While DIPS theory is important, it would only credit Feliciano, as he was not at all benefiting from anything resembling a quality defense. Feliciano's other numbers reflect his dominance in 2009. He had a 3.55 FIP, a 3.05 xFIP, and 3.44 tRA (the lowest of his career), all while facing some of the most stealth competition in baseball. Sure, the batters Feliciano saw were most likely at a disadvantage in terms of handedness, but this is irrelevant. In fact, this is what we should be commending Feliciano for: being able to turn good hitters into bad ones by exploiting weaknesses. What's also important is when Feliciano pitched. He was usually in close games facing the superstar players on the opposing teams (i.e. Ryan Howard, Adam Dunn, Brian McCann, etc.), giving him a WPA of 1.91, the highest of his career by .7. Here are Feliciano's 2009 splits: Righties: 4.49 xFIP, 5.19 FIP, 1.59 K/BB, 21.8 LD%, 43.6 GB% Lefties: 2.40 xFIP, 2.80 FIP, 6.83 K/BB, 12.3 LD%, 63.2 GB% I also think a fundamental problem with LOOGY analysis is that their value is not properly assessed via WAR thanks to the relatively small amount of innings they pitch. Feliciano was only worth .6 WAR last year (.4 less than Santos), but was clearly more "valuable" than that. While fWAR does take into account leverage index, it's still difficult to buy the final numbers. For a more detailed conversation on that issue, look here. Feliciano's 2009 was great. He got batters to swing at pitches outside the strike zone (28.9% of the time), turning above average hitters into career minor leaguers at the most important stages of the game. If the Mets are playing more competitive baseball in 2010, maybe his late game excellence will be realized even more.

Edgy DC Feb 12 2010 06:31 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

I was actually thinking of starting a Pedro Feliciano Love Thread this weekend --- a thread in which to express affection for Pedro Felicano, if that's not clear. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I also think a fundamental problem with LOOGY analysis is that their value is not properly assessed via WAR thanks to the relatively small amount of innings they pitch. Anyhow, this is a frustratingly obvious point, that many stats like WAR --- that turn percentages into runs into wins --- miss. And it's also true of many other late-inning specialists. LOOGys, closers, pinch-hitters, defensive replacements all get short-changed in WAR. WAR is hell. Francisco Rodriguez had 0.3 WARs for the Mets in 2009. Ramon Castro had 0.5. Yeah, it wasn't a particularly good year for Rodriguez, but nobody would argue that this is seriously reflective of their relative value to the team.

MFS62 Feb 14 2010 08:52 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

A few years ago, Pedro pitched about 4 scoreless innings in one game, and afew scoreless innings in another game. I thought it would have been interesting to "stretch him out" to see if he could become a starter. Never happened. Too bad. He gets guys out. And, I just got around to checking out Saucy Arturo. (Finally noticed him in the 40 man roster thread.) Nine minor league seasons with an ERA near 5.00? And they had to add him to the 40 man roster? I know its an old baseball adage that "lefties develop later". I'm glad he has options left because it looks like he might develop around the year 2015. I know. I said I'd be optimistic. And I still am. But, .... Arturo Lopez? I'm glad Pedro Feliciano is here. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 14 2010 10:39 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Seconded on Lopez. At least with somebody like Marshall, the motion's unusual enough that you can try him out amongst your big-leaguers to see if he could be serviceable, LOOGYwise. (Although even there, they've got a better, younger version at Binghamton already in NRI-less Roy Merritt... and he's got an adorably goofy entrance song to boot.)

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 21 2010 03:28 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Kevin Kernan tweets: Good news... #Mets Escobar can grip a baseball 10:25 AM Feb 20th from web ... curious news... #Mets Update: Sean Green has dropped his arm angle and the Mets expect that to make him more effective about 4 hours ago from web ... and curiouser news, still. #Mets Update: Manuel is impressed with the kid Mejia and threw him in the mix for the eighth inning role. about 4 hours ago from web I'm hoping Mejia impresses him less and less as the month wears on.

Frayed Knot Feb 21 2010 03:57 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

#Mets Escobar can grip a baseball That's kinda nice ... considering that it's part of the job description and all. #Mets Update: Sean Green has dropped his arm angle and the Mets expect that to make him more effective Yeah, I had heard that the other day (Ed Coleman I think). Not quite into knuckle-scraping/Chad Bradford territory yet, but definitely lower. #Mets Update: Manuel is impressed with the kid Mejia and threw him in the mix for the eighth inning role. That just ain't gonna happen. That's your FK Spring 2010 guarantee right there. The only time I want to even hear about that is if/when we're fighting for a pennant in September and he's brought up to patch a hole then.

Valadius Feb 21 2010 05:12 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

I only want to see Mejia in a Frankie Rodriguez in 2002 role.

Ashie62 Feb 21 2010 08:17 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Maybe Manuel will be gone before he can damage Mejia

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 23 2010 07:33 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Snooze today sez the Mets will likely ink another bullpen lefty -- Will Ohman or Joe Biemel -- if the price is rite (~$1 millz)

TransMonk Feb 23 2010 07:45 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Is Takahashi already not impressing?

Benjamin Grimm Feb 23 2010 07:57 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

I imagine that they want their eggs in multiple baskets.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 23 2010 07:58 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Pet peeve of mine: GMs going after "a lefty" instead of "someone to handle lefties." Not sure how much of this is due to "old-school" baseball guys and how much is due to "old-school" baseball writers. On the plus side, Igarashi seems to be impressing with his command and curve.

smg58 Feb 23 2010 09:26 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Ohman is at camp with the Orioles. Beimel at a million is pretty good value. On the right side, Kiko Calero at $2M or less would be even better value. Other than Frankie and Feliciano there are no sure things in the Mets pen, so I have no problem with adding legit guys on the cheap.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 23 2010 09:32 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Once we're talking about 2M for BP help, I start thinking the money's better spent elsewhere.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 23 2010 11:55 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

smg58 wrote: Ohman is at camp with the Orioles. Beimel at a million is pretty good value. On the right side, Kiko Calero at $2M or less would be even better value. Other than Frankie and Feliciano there are no sure things in the Mets pen, so I have no problem with adding legit guys on the cheap. Rubin's twittered correction: Mets official misspoke yesterday when mentioning Ohman as LH reliever to sign. He's inked. Insider meant Ron Mahay, Joe Beimel. about an hour ago

Frayed Knot Feb 23 2010 04:39 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Bring up Ike Davis and make him a situational LHP when he's not playing elsewhere. OK I'm not really serious but it can't hurt to think about once he is called up

MFS62 Feb 24 2010 10:01 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Been there, done that, with a guy named Clint Hartung. He was a NY Giants prospect. They couldn't figure out if he would turn out to be a great pitcher or a great hitter. He was neither. Although, there was this guy named Babe Ruth ... Later

Gwreck Feb 26 2010 11:21 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Mets extended an offer to Beimel (says Beimel): http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/2 ... offer.html Beimel is the idiot who cut his hand on a broken glass while getting boozed up prior to the Division Series in 2006. Some funny stuff here: http://laist.com/2007/04/12/better_know ... beimel.php

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 27 2010 05:22 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Thanks for that. Needed an explanation for 97.

MFS62 Mar 26 2010 09:31 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

By Alden Gonzalez / MLB.com 03/25/10 8:02 PM ET JUPITER, Fla. -- Considering he's relied upon so heavily in the Mets' bullpen, Pedro Feliciano was given a nice little break recently. Now, with about a week and a half remaining in Spring Training, he'll be used rather steadily as he aims to prepare himself for what will probably be another 80-appearance season in relief for the Amazin's. But the veteran left-hander has something else in mind. "I just want to be the setup man," Feliciano said prior to his club's game against the Cardinals at Roger Dean Stadium, which resulted in a 2-1 loss. "I don't want to be the lefty specialist. ... I want to be the setup man. I want to be the eighth-inning guy, and I want to prove to the organization that I can pitch to righties like I pitch to lefties." Feliciano has been one of the key cogs in the Mets' bullpen for a while. Over the last four years, he's put up a 3.04 ERA while appearing in an average of 79 games per season. In 2008 and '09, he led the Major Leagues in games pitched with 86 and 88, respectively. And last season, he put up a 3.04 ERA with a career-best 3.28 strikeout-to-walk ratio. With hopeful setup man Kelvim Escobar starting the season on the disabled list, the eighth inning is a relative toss-up in Mets camp, one that could eventually be inhabited by Kiko Calero, Ryota Igarashi or even Jenrry Mejia -- after he's eased into the big leagues first. But Feliciano said pitching coach Dan Warthen asked him recently if he would embrace the eighth-inning role if it fell upon him. Now, he wants it. "I see [J.J.] Putz is gone, and nobody's set up as the setup man," Feliciano said. "I want to get that position. I want to win it. I'm working with the righties like I'm doing with the lefties. And I just want to leave Spring Training as the setup man." But Feliciano may be a victim of his past success. The 33-year-old southpaw has held lefties to a .214 batting average throughout his seven-year career. Other than Feliciano, the Mets don't really have a lefty who could come in and get a big out against a lefty slugger -- say, Ryan Howard or Chase Utley -- late in the game. Japanese lefty Hisanori Takahashi is a candidate for the bullpen, but he's been mostly a starter throughout his pro career. While dominating lefties, Feliciano has surrendered a .272 career batting average to righties. But after right-handed hitters pounded him for a .357 batting average in '08, they hit just .264 against him in '09. This spring, he's continued to work on implementing a cut fastball against righty hitters. If it turns out that he's not the setup man to begin the season, that's fine with Feliciano. But he wants to be a full-inning guy. "If they decide with me to be ... the seventh-inning [guy], I'll be there, whatever they want," said Feliciano, who amassed just 59 1/3 innings in his 88 appearances last year. "But I don't want to be the lefty specialist." Since taking a one-hopper off the right knee against the Marlins last Thursday, Feliciano hasn't pitched. Not because he's been hurt, but because the Mets want to save his arm as much as possible for the rigors of the season. Now, after throwing to one batter on Thursday, Feliciano is scheduled to pitch again on Friday, then get an off-day on Saturday before pitching in back-to-back days to get himself cranked up again for the season. Despite pitching for Puerto Rico in the World Baseball Classic last year before leading the big leagues in appearances, Feliciano said his arm was never sore "at all," and Mets manager Jerry Manuel said: "He can probably go to New York right now and wait for us to get there." "Hopefully I break my record again this year," Feliciano said with a smile. And though he'll be 34 by the end of August, Feliciano believes he can keep making 80-some appearances again this season and possibly beyond. "I work so hard in the offseason that I'm not scared of pitching 90 games, I'm not scared of getting up [in the bullpen] 100 times," Feliciano said. "I'm ready, and I know that my body's ready for more and more years." Later

metirish Mar 26 2010 09:56 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

" That Pedro is crazy" Not going to happen is it?

Edgy DC Mar 26 2010 10:22 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Depends on how the situation unfolds. He's been allowed to pitch full innings before. And lefty specialist work often occurs in the eighth.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 26 2010 07:11 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Yes, the pen's packed with candidates, and they'd probably have to exercise both the Green and Parnell options to get him on the Opening Day roster, but if they're really interested in a second lefty-shutdown guy, the Red Sox just let one go in Brian Shouse. How good has he been against lefties? 2007 (Brewers) vs LH: 23.2 IP, 7.99 K/9, 2.28 BB/9, .212 AVG, 3.26 xFIP 2008 (Brewers) vs LH: 29.0 IP, 8.69 K/9, 0.62 BB/9, .180 AVG, 2.11 xFIP 2009 (Rays) vs LH: 17.2 IP, 7.13 K/9, 0.51 BB/9, .231 AVG, 2.55 xFIP Basically, he's Pedro Dos... Dos. (Just whiter and older... but spry enough for a brisk, say, 40 IP.)

Edgy DC Mar 26 2010 09:34 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

That's some tiny workloads. Those look like a week for Tom Seaver.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 26 2010 10:00 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Well, yeah-- keep in mind, though, that in the age of the LOOGY/ROOGY, those 25-30 IP can come in 45-50 appearances; add in mop-up/stopgap work and he's clocking 45-50 IP in a season. (His workload's about what PedroDos' was before last year's lunchpail-hefting.)

seawolf17 Mar 27 2010 04:52 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Shouse closed for the Red Wings many years ago when I was in Rochester, and he was a shutdown guy for them then.

metsguyinmichigan Mar 27 2010 06:07 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

seawolf17 wrote: Shouse closed for the Red Wings many years ago when I was in Rochester, and he was a shutdown guy for them then. The late Silver Stadium! Sweet! I have a Red Wings jacket I bought from the stadium there when I spent that weekend with Mickey Weston. But when I where it around here people think it's the hockey team. As for the pen, PedroDos is in a scenario Aaron Heilman was in when he was good -- too good at what he was doing to put him in a different role.

Edgy DC Mar 27 2010 07:05 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Which can be unhealthy. Weekend with Mickey Weston? You don't say.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 27 2010 09:40 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

MGiM: Did you and Mickey go bed-and-breakfast? Or did you go bargain hotel, and save your money for meals?

seawolf17 Mar 27 2010 10:24 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

I don't want to interrupt the flow, because this thread is going to get good now, but it was at the new Frontier Field after they closed Silver after the 1996 season.

metirish Mar 29 2010 06:34 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Feliciano is the 8th inning guy says Marty Noble http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... Id=rss_nym

Ashie62 Mar 29 2010 06:46 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Pedro has earned it

metirish Apr 05 2010 08:49 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Manuel on Mejia Newsday Regarding Jenrry It appears as if the Mets are going to bring 20-year-old reliever Jenrry Mejia along slowly. Manuel was asked if he would bring Mejia into the game in the eighth inning Monday if the Mets held a one- or two-run lead. "I wouldn't give him the ball [today]," he said. "Not in that situation. No." I guess my thoughts on that would be why not have him in AAA working those types of situations.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 05 2010 08:56 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Metirish wrote: I guess my thoughts on that would be why not have him in AAA working those types of situations. I'm not sayin' nothin'. (I'm just nodding so vigorously they should give me away at a ballgame.)

OlerudOwned Apr 05 2010 09:02 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

I'd rather he be in AAA working on the type of situation where he gets the ball at the beginning of the game and uses multiple secondary pitches over the course of at least 5 innings. What's that called again?

Benjamin Grimm Apr 05 2010 09:04 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

I'm with Olerud.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 05 2010 09:06 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

That's what I meant. Opening Day lowers my reading comp.

metirish Apr 05 2010 09:14 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Well yeah , it's what I would like too.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 12 2010 12:45 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

So, Green goes down, Valdes comes up, we've got 7 nations represented at the major-league level, and all's hunky-dory, right? Well, except for the fact that, since Escobar's on the 15-day DL and not the 60-man (on which he wouldn't count against the 40-man roster), the Mets had to release Rule V pick Clint Everts (live-armed 25-year-old former first-rounder who had minor-league success last year) to make room for Portside Dessens over there (situational lefty with no platoon split, and, like, 20 innings of organized ball pitched in the last two years) on the 40-man. A little fumble, yes, but... it's just nice to know the team's learned its lesson regarding not giving away talent for free when there are other alternatives.

metirish Apr 12 2010 12:59 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Are you saying that this was a procedural mess up by the Mets?(can't view link)

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 12 2010 01:38 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

In the wake of discovering Green's [crossout:3tkt1z07]vaginal[/crossout:3tkt1z07] ribcage tear, the options were: -- Bring up somebody already on the 40-man (Parnell, Stoner, Dessens... or, hell, Everts) to replace him. -- Push Escobar back to the 60-day DL (retroactive to the season's start), giving him more time to rehab at a relaxed rate (by all reports, he's nowhere near ready to go), and clearing a 40-man space until midseason (when, if he's healthy and rarin' to throw, you might be comfortable releasing a Jacobs, Matthews, or bullpen detritus that's proven to be useless). -- Do it the way they did it, and lose Everts, Stoner or some other guy from the 40-man, before they see what he/she/it can do in the majors. Like I said, it's likely a relatively minor mistake... but there seem to be at least two better ways to have handled it (and that's just off the top of my amateur, non-baseball-man head).

Ashie62 Apr 12 2010 01:41 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: In the wake of discovering Green's [crossout]vaginal[/crossout] ribcage tear, the options were: -- Bring up somebody already on the 40-man (Parnell, Stoner, Dessens... or, hell, Everts) to replace him. -- Push Escobar back to the 60-day DL (retroactive to the season's start), giving him more time to rehab at a relaxed rate (by all reports, he's nowhere near ready to go), and clearing a 40-man space until midseason (when, if he's healthy and rarin' to throw, you might be comfortable releasing a Jacobs, Matthews, or bullpen detritus that's proven to be useless). -- Do it the way they did it, and lose Everts, Stoner or some other guy from the 40-man, before they see what he/she/it can do in the majors. Like I said, it's likely a relatively minor mistake... but there seem to be at least two better ways to have handled it (and that's just off the top of my amateur, non-baseball-man head). I doubt Minaya gave it as much thought as you did. You're hired.

Ceetar Apr 12 2010 01:48 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Sometimes I wonder what's going on behind the scenes. It was obvious Jerry wanted Mejia and Omar started out saying he'd go to AA. I've heard Jerry's the one that wanted Matthews. We definitely heard that Jerry liked Valdes. Is Omar being circumvented on roster moves? I didn't really have a problem with jettisoning Figgy, but a 25 year old pitcher is a different thing. It's probably no big deal, he probably sucks and won't make it because most don't, but it's the little things that are signs that there are bigger problems.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 15 2010 07:05 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Ashie62 wrote: In the wake of discovering Green's [crossout]vaginal[/crossout] ribcage tear, the options were: -- Bring up somebody already on the 40-man (Parnell, Stoner, Dessens... or, hell, Everts) to replace him. -- Push Escobar back to the 60-day DL (retroactive to the season's start), giving him more time to rehab at a relaxed rate (by all reports, he's nowhere near ready to go), and clearing a 40-man space until midseason (when, if he's healthy and rarin' to throw, you might be comfortable releasing a Jacobs, Matthews, or bullpen detritus that's proven to be useless). -- Do it the way they did it, and lose Everts, Stoner or some other guy from the 40-man, before they see what he/she/it can do in the majors. Like I said, it's likely a relatively minor mistake... but there seem to be at least two better ways to have handled it (and that's just off the top of my amateur, non-baseball-man head). I doubt Minaya gave it as much thought as you did. You're hired. Everts cleared waivers and was reassigned to Class AA. I guess we're lucky to have a GM not too scared to try that?

seawolf17 Apr 15 2010 07:59 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

That's a brilliant move by Omar, waiving a guy like Everts who nobody wanted. I knew he had that kind of move in him. Nice job.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 15 2010 08:18 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Hell, I'm just proud to live in the same city, really.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 24 2010 08:46 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Flameballin' 32-year-old reliever Juan Cruz unceremonially-- and nonsensically?-- released by the Royals. Hmm.

Edgy DC Apr 24 2010 09:49 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Ever notice that it's easier to assume a guy is a huge jerk when he's less multi-dimensional --- a flame-throwing, high-strikeout/high-walk reliever or a big statue with shocking power or speedburner who piles up the steals but still doesn't walk that much?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 04 2010 01:44 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

In this Fangraphs piece about oddities in the numbers of various NL bullpens, they point up the fact that the Mets have logged the second-most bullpen innings in the league, behind the Pirates. That amounts to more than 3.2 innings per game, a rate that the unit probably cannot sustain. Even the 2009 Dodgers, the only NL playoff team with a bullpen that threw more than 500 innings, averaged under 3.2 innings per appearance. As expected, the bullpen FIP, 3.78, is a bit higher than the ERA, 2.60. Of all the NL teams with a bullpen ERA under 4, only Atlanta’s FIP outpaces its ERA. Of the other five, only one, San Diego, comes within even 1.00 of its bullpen ERA. The Mets and the Pirates bullpens actually have a connection. They both boast high strikeout rates and low walk rates. The Mets relievers have struck out 22.2 percent of batters faced and have walked 13 percent, while the Pirates have struck out 21.2 percent of opposing hitters and have walked 11.3 percent. Pittsburgh actually has a better bullpen K/BB ratio. Difference, though, comes on the long ball. The Mets bullpen has allowed six home runs, while the Pirates unit has allowed double that. The Pirates bullpen has also allow far more hits and sport a .331 BABIP, almost .060 points higher than the Mets. Basically, keep walks down (which they're doing) and keep the ball in the park (which they're doing so far, last night notwithstanding) and boom-- instant classic bullpen.

TransMonk May 04 2010 01:56 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

...an instant classic bullpen that will fall apart in August because our starters can't go more than five innings.

Edgy DC May 04 2010 02:05 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Our starters certainly can go more than five innings. The issue is the manager who is reluctant to permit them to go more than six.

Edgy DC May 14 2010 11:18 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Courtesy of Howard Medgal, Appearances by Met Bullpenners on Zero Days Rest: 2005 74 2006 118 2007 121 2008 167 2009 137 2010 (projected) 190

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 14 2010 11:21 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Courtesy of Howard Medgal, Appearances by Met Bullpenners on Zero Days Rest: 2005 74 2006 118 2007 121 2008 167 2009 137 2010 (projected) 190 They're at 41 such appearances now, which more than doubles the league average (19) and is 10 beyond the next-nearest team in the NL (Pittsburgh).

metirish May 14 2010 11:24 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

It would be hilarious except it's our team....

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 17 2010 01:10 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Lost in the shuffle yesterday: Kiko Calero released.

batmagadanleadoff May 24 2010 09:39 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Mejia stays. Mets to keep Mejia in 'pen -- for now Excerpt: The guessing game concerning Jenrry Mejia is over. For now, at least. Manager Jerry Manuel said last night Mejia would stay in the bullpen as the seventh inning pitcher. Manager Jerry Manuel said that discussions regarding his role have ended after the Mets optioned Manny Acosta and activated Ryota Igarashi. "We've discussed him at length many times, as far as what's right for him, what's right for the team," Manuel said before the Mets' 6-4 victory in the Subway Series finale at Citi Field. http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/mej ... JOc3B10lfM

Frankenstein May 24 2010 09:57 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

BAAAD!

MFS62 May 24 2010 10:04 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Frankenstein wrote: BAAAD! Been meaning to ask ya'. How tough was it getting Elsa Lanchester away from Charles Loughton? Later

batmagadanleadoff May 24 2010 10:05 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Frankie Says: Frankenstein wrote: BAAAD! *I contrived this post, mainly so I could post an old Mad magazine cover. Potrzebie!

MFS62 May 24 2010 10:12 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Alfred E. Newman has become an American icon since the early days of Mad. But, when ever happened to Melvin Kosnowski? He has become the Rootie Kazootie to Alfred's Howdy Doodie. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 24 2010 11:14 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Mejia stays. Mets to keep Mejia in 'pen -- for now Excerpt: The guessing game concerning Jenrry Mejia is over. For now, at least. Manager Jerry Manuel said last night Mejia would stay in the bullpen as the seventh inning pitcher. Manager Jerry Manuel said that discussions regarding his role have ended after the Mets optioned Manny Acosta and activated Ryota Igarashi. "We've discussed him at length many times, as far as what's right for him, what's right for the team," Manuel said before the Mets' 6-4 victory in the Subway Series finale at Citi Field. http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/mej ... JOc3B10lfM If only two wrongs-- Mejia's bullpenning vs. starting in the minors, emphasizing keeping a tidy bullpen while the rotation is operating at 40%-- actually made a right.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 24 2010 10:19 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Criminy. That "zoo" won championships. This one just burns out arms and makes September crowds disappear. ... the team’s closer, Francisco Rodriguez, and its bullpen coach, Randy Niemann, had to be separated by other relievers in the bullpen on Sunday night during an apparent dispute over how Rodriguez is being used. The confrontation occurred in full view of some of the fans sitting in right field. ... Afterward, Francisco Rodriguez said the tussle in the bullpen was just an instance of Mets relievers engaging in some roughhousing. “We were just fooling around,” he said. “We were just kidding with each other.” But two people in the Mets organization confirmed that the confrontation between Rodriguez and Niemann was indeed a heated one and might have escalated if other pitchers had not intervened. A third member of the organization said that Rodriguez and Niemann met after the game and apparently patched things up. ... On the night of the confrontation between Maine and Manuel, for example, Rodriguez was summoned to pitch the ninth inning even though the Mets had a 10-6 lead and it was a nonsave situation. But just as in the 20-inning game against St. Louis in April, when Rodriguez warmed up 10 times before finally entering in the 19th inning, the Mets, and particularly Manuel, were in desperate need of a victory.

Edgy DC May 24 2010 10:33 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

It seems something of a forced comparison.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 01 2010 12:34 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

A depressing-- and not at all surprising, to anyone who's pay attention-- graph from Beyond the Box Score. Monday night will increase the lead, since the Dodgers and Pirates got nice pitching performances today, and the Brewers only used three in getting roughed up by the Marlins.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 03 2010 06:16 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Presuming he stops sucking long enough to stick at the major-league level, this should make the midgame bullpen tea parties a little more tense. David Lennon wrote: #Mets sign K-Rod's pal, Brian Bruney, to minor-league deal. Reporting to Buffalo. about 13 hours ago via TweetDeck

Edgy DC Jul 03 2010 11:45 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Omar is feeding Jerry's habit.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 23 2010 09:37 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

So... Nieve DFAed. Acosta up, and down for whatever. Here's the thing: I look at a stat sheet/scouting report, and they're near-identical. Occasionally disastrous walk rate, absurd home run rates, and a decent amount of Ks out of a fastball with some kick and an okay slider. Your thoughts requested.

Rockin' Doc Jul 23 2010 10:06 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

This move is more window dressing than anything else in my view. I see this as simply making a change for the sake of change. Should have no significant impact on the teams's performance, unless Acosta can hit. If Acosta pitches well, Manuel will trot him out there virtually every game until he is no longer effective and Manuel eventaully loses faith in him and then lets him sit in the bullpen to be used only in mop up duty. The names and arms may change, but the mismanagement and resultant story line is far too familiar.

TransMonk Jul 23 2010 10:31 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 23 2010 10:43 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

Rockin' Doc wrote: This move is more window dressing than anything else in my view. I see this as simply making a change for the sake of change. Should have no significant impact on the teams's performance, unless Acosta can hit. If Acosta pitches well, Manuel will trot him out there virtually every game until he is no longer effective and Manuel eventaully loses faith in him and then lets him sit in the bullpen to be used only in mop up duty. The names and arms may change, but the mismanagement and resultant story line is far too familiar. Manuel tossed Nieve into a role in which the guy barely performed a season ago, pitched him at a rate that would have made him the team's all-time leader in games pitched, then suddenly asked him to prepare as something like an emergency starter, THEN shuttled him to the back of the 'pen. Acosta, pretty much, has always been used as a short-stint/mid-to-high leverage reliever. So he has THAT going for him, at least. He's also brought his BB/9 down somewhat during his time at Buffalo (from 6.00 in the majors to 3.70). But yeah... he's pretty much the same guy, but older.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 29 2010 09:21 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

An okay ode to PedroDos from Fangraphs here... but it does raise an interesting question: if you're Joshimanderry Hunsickerson-Ngyrnes, do you offer him arbitration? You kinda have to, don't you... even if his accepting means you're spending 3.5 million on the World's Finest LOOGY?

Edgy DC Sep 29 2010 09:34 AM Re: The Pen in Ten

If they don't, they're going to go out and spend at least that much on somebody like him, right?

Vic Sage Sep 29 2010 01:40 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Edgy DC wrote: If they don't, they're going to go out and spend at least that much on somebody like him, right? The Mets took on a LOOGY who could make a slider dance And Pedro has made them happy that they took the chance He may not be a closer, and has never won a ring but he pitches daily, with his lefty wing And they're gonna have to pay somebody, yes indeed They're gonna have to pay somebody, They may give the bucks to Pedro or to someone half as good But they're gonna have to pay somebody. They might get a pitcher who is new to the stage They might find a fellow who has issues with his rage They might sign a cheater, getting roids through UPS or even from his doctor, it's anybody's guess... But they're gonna have to pay somebody, yes indeed They're gonna have to pay somebody, They may give the bucks to Pedro or to someone half as good But they're gonna have to pay somebody. He may be a trooper, he might be a jerk, He may be a headcase with a very ugly quirk, He may be old and tired, he might be young and lame He may be in another country, playing under another name. But they're gonna have to pay somebody, yes indeed They're gonna have to pay somebody, They may give the bucks to Pedro or to someone half as good But they're gonna have to pay somebody. When the Mets were under construction, working on their home, They thought about a sliding turf, they thought about a dome, But they didn't have the money, and they didn't ask the bank So now that Pedro's up for arb, there should be $ome in the tank. Cuz they're gonna have to pay somebody, yes indeed They're gonna have to pay somebody, They may give the bucks to Pedro or to someone half as good But they're gonna have to pay somebody. He may be a pitcher with some spiritual pride He may be a blacksock who took some bribes on the side He may need to work with the pitching coach, to find a second pitch No matter how good he is, the fans will always bitch, So the Mets are gonna have to pay somebody, yes indeed They're gonna have to pay somebody, They may give the bucks to Pedro or to someone half as good But they're gonna have to pay somebody. Might like to sign an All-Star, or someone of that ilk a face upon a wheaties box, sucking down some milk But he might like to go to bars, drink some fine champagne and end up on a city street, sleeping off the pain. But they're gonna have to pay somebody, yes indeed They're gonna have to pay somebody, They may give the bucks to Pedro or to someone half as good But they're gonna have to pay somebody They may call him Marmol, they may call him Billy He may be a Padre, He may be a Philly They once called him Heath Bell, called him Darren O'Day But no matter what they call him now, no matter what they say... They're gonna have to pay somebody, yes indeed They're gonna have to pay somebody, They may give the bucks to Pedro or to someone half as good But they're gonna have to pay somebody

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 29 2010 01:53 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Nice

Edgy DC Sep 29 2010 02:03 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

That's the sort of posting we. are. here. for. I salute you and the perfectly good time you wasted on that. And for those about to slack, I salute you, too.

bmfc1 Sep 29 2010 02:05 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

"He may be in another country, playing under another name." Kenny Powers reference?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 29 2010 03:43 PM Re: The Pen in Ten

Wonnnndrous.