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Camp Buzz

Edgy DC Feb 19 2010 10:42 AM

A place for discussion the off-hand quotes (along the lines of Mike Jacobs being a contender at first) and gotta-file-something stories that may mean something but usually amount to little once the 24-hour news cycle has rotatated. [quote="Adam Rubin on Twitter":sfwprqfy]Jerry on Reyes: "I would love to see him as a No. 3 hitter assuming the other parts fit."[/quote:sfwprqfy]

metirish Feb 19 2010 10:59 AM Re: Camp Buzz

I like it , who would be hitting 1 & 2? Castillo and Murphy?

Edgy DC Feb 19 2010 11:02 AM Re: Camp Buzz

He seems to be angling at Pagan for the alternative leadoff guy, until Beltran is available. I, mice elf, like Castillo one and Reyes two.

metirish Feb 19 2010 11:10 AM Re: Camp Buzz

More camp buzz has Hojo working with the guys hitting for power this season , more home runs. "As an organization, we wanted to be a good offensive team with runners in scoring position," Johnson said as the Mets prepare to officially open camp tomorrow in Port St. Lucie. We wanted to be a good offensive club when it comes to strikeouts. We wanted to walk a lot and have a high on-base percentage. We achieved those goals in those areas, but we dropped in power. That is something we're going to address this year Find the power

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 19 2010 11:17 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Reyes, along with the rest of the organization, just left Jerry standing there with his schlong in his hands the last time the batting 3rd idea was brought up. The media/fan reaction was way over the top "How could they do this to him?" sorta crap. It's a shame that the Mets (and Reyes) seem to have so much value tied up in the idea of being a leadoff hitter they won't have it any other way. And God forbid, if he struggles, everyone will point to the batting order as if that made a difference.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 19 2010 11:23 AM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="metirish"]I like it , who would be hitting 1 & 2? Castillo and Murphy?

Interesting stuff here from Ted Berg last week about lineup optimization: in essence, he took the Mets' CHONE projections and plugged them-- along with a .150/.150 line for "Pitcher McGee" into the Batting Order Optimizer of Baseball Musings' David Pinto, and got this "ideal" lineup, scoring 4.78 runs per game:

1. David Wright .391 / .502
2. Jason Bay .376 / .514
3. Angel Pagan .334 / .428
4. Daniel Murphy .328 / .429
5. Jose Reyes .360 / .458
6. Jeff Francoeur .317 / .435
7. Omir Santos .296 / .359
8. Pitcher McGee .150 / .150
9. Luis Castillo .367 / .350

Yeah, for a bunch of reasons-- press, egos, handedness-- this won't happen. More likely, it'll be something like:

1. Reyes
2. Castillo
3. Wright
4. Bay
5. Murphy
6. Francoeur
7. Pagan
8. Santos/Barajas
9. McGee

According to the BM tool, that gets you 4.536 RPG, average.

But the most interesting thing Berg found? All the top suggested 2010 lineups have the pitcher batting eighth and Luis Castillo batting ninth. In essence, putting him there, Berg argues (and I don't disagree), "decreases the odds that the top of the Mets’ order — the best hitters — comes up with outs on the board and ups the chances they’ve got someone on base to drive in."

Something like this...

1. Reyes
2. Pagan
3. Wright
4. Bay
5. Murphy
6. Francoeur
7. Santos/Barajas
8. McGee
9. Castillo

... produces 4.737 runs per game, theoretically. Close to optimal, and about .2 RPG more than the lineup(s) the Mets will likely trot out there. If you set your annoyance-- and I've got it too, in spades-- at the LaRussa-ness of it aside, the flip-flop seems like it could make sense, no?

OE: A nice Hardball Times article from John Beamer testing out the 8-9 flip-flop in general, and finding it makes sense, is right here.
OE2: Talk about the road rising up to meet you... I'm Rickey Henderson now!

Edgy DC Feb 19 2010 11:57 AM Re: Camp Buzz

What do they have for my CHONE this year?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 19 2010 12:03 PM Re: Camp Buzz

.390 hectoring/.536 kvelling, with a 152 CPR+ (adjusted Contrarian Post Rating) and a projected 15 Ashie-dumps on the season. (They're a little bullish on the Ashie-dumps, methinks.)

metirish Feb 19 2010 12:23 PM Re: Camp Buzz

Interesting there from Berg , I'd hit Wright in the 2 hole but I don't think I would ever slot him in the # 1 hole. Me , if I'm going with my thinking outside the box lineup , as apposed to pulling them out of a hat. Murphy Wright Reyes Beltran Bay Francouer Santos Castillo Pitcher No Beltran Murphy Wright Reyes Bay Pagan Francouer Santos Pitcher

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 19 2010 12:31 PM Re: Camp Buzz

But the most interesting thing Berg found? All the top suggested 2010 lineups have the pitcher batting eighth and Luis Castillo batting ninth. In essence, putting him there, Berg argues (and I don't disagree), "decreases the odds that the top of the Mets’ order — the best hitters — comes up with outs on the board and ups the chances they’ve got someone on base to drive in." Wouldn't that also be the case if Castillo hit 1st and the pitcher 9th? Or is he saying that Castillo's propensity to reach first base (and first base only) decreases the chances of getting runs in vs. a leadoff guy more likely to get an XBH? Maybe the best thing any NL team can do for its lineup is train their pitchers to hit.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 19 2010 12:45 PM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] But the most interesting thing Berg found? All the top suggested 2010 lineups have the pitcher batting eighth and Luis Castillo batting ninth. In essence, putting him there, Berg argues (and I don't disagree), "decreases the odds that the top of the Mets’ order — the best hitters — comes up with outs on the board and ups the chances they’ve got someone on base to drive in." Wouldn't that also be the case if Castillo hit 1st and the pitcher 9th? Or is he saying that Castillo's propensity to reach first base (and first base only) decreases the chances of getting runs in vs. a leadoff guy more likely to get an XBH? Maybe the best thing any NL team can do for its lineup is train their pitchers to hit.

Sure... but then you're also giving the most plate appearances on the team-- 50 more than the next guy-- to someone of less overall offensive value than Reyes, Wright, Beltran or Bay... or, arguably, Pagan.

It could be argued that batting the pitcher 8th gives an inferior composite-hitter slightly more at-bats than Castillo over the course of a season... but this ain't necessarily so, as the pitcher really isn't batting 4-5 times a game unless he's a good enough hitter that you want him in there 4-5 times.

Edgy DC Feb 19 2010 01:02 PM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":1bo3spoi].390 hectoring/.536 kvelling, with a 152 CPR+ (adjusted Contrarian Post Rating) and a projected 15 Ashie-dumps on the season. (They're a little bullish on the Ashie-dumps, methinks.)[/quote:1bo3spoi] Was it seawolf who created the WHOMP meteric? Fifty Kranes to whoever can find that thread.

Ceetar Feb 19 2010 01:11 PM Re: Camp Buzz

Once I heard the LaRussa justification, I liked it. The idea being that you want your power guy, Pujols in his case, up the most times with RISP, and want him up as much as possible, hence third. You want to avoid Pujols leading off the inning, and With three outs per, you should put three guys in front of him that are more likely to get on base than the pitcher. I'd be more apt to put Pagan there than Castillo, who I'd rather bat first to utilize the OBP. He did steal 20 bases last year, so he's still above avg speed. Projections only work if you're replaying the previous year. Wright will hit more power in 2010, so leading him off won't be as beneficial as those projections make it out to be.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 19 2010 01:27 PM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="Ceetar":30j9n47y]Once I heard the LaRussa justification, I liked it. The idea being that you want your power guy, Pujols in his case, up the most times with RISP, and want him up as much as possible, hence third. You want to avoid Pujols leading off the inning, and With three outs per, you should put three guys in front of him that are more likely to get on base than the pitcher. I'd be more apt to put Pagan there than Castillo, who I'd rather bat first to utilize the OBP. He did steal 20 bases last year, so he's still above avg speed. Projections only work if you're replaying the previous year. Wright will hit more power in 2010, so leading him off won't be as beneficial as those projections make it out to be.[/quote:30j9n47y] FYI: CHONE-- and they're usually a little pessimistic-- does peg Wright to have a better power year than last, at 23 HRs and 64 XBHs(along with 97 runs and 98 RBI)... but yeah, last year's power outage probably dragged those down a bit. I'd still put Pagan up there-- he's got stronger ISO power than Castillo, and more to offer overall as a hitter (wOBA of .346 over the last two partial years to Castillo's .329), so I'd rather give him the extra at-bats. He and Reyes and Wright and Bay get that first round of at bats... then, essentially, you have Castillo as a "pre-leadoff" guy the rest of the game.

Ceetar Feb 19 2010 01:36 PM Re: Camp Buzz

I'd live with that, it certainly would make many fans happy to see Castillo down in the order, but actually would provide value. It's kinda pointless though, as Manuel is definitely not that forward thinking. Maybe in June when Valentine/other is managing?

Edgy DC Feb 19 2010 01:42 PM Re: Camp Buzz

Oh, I think he's forward thinking. He just has perhaps a different idea of forward than you do, or I do, or batmags does. But he's the one that started this conversation. The problem with radical rethinking of lineups is that it's a personnel issue, and few managers --- Torre and LaRussa are two --- have the juice to institute that sort of change, and persevere through the backlash in the fanbase and media, and ultimately the clubhouse. Francona is in a good position. If he tries something new, and they fail, yeah, people will naturally jump to the conclusion that they failed because they tried something new, but any crazy ideas can be attributed to Bill James.

G-Fafif Feb 19 2010 01:48 PM Re: Camp Buzz

Managerial musings on batting orders are the annual useless fodder of early camp. Remember Willie's plan to bat Wright eighth? By the second game of the season, if not sooner, the best laid plans will give way to necessity, improvisation, new information and whatever works.

Ceetar Feb 19 2010 01:51 PM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="G-Fafif":2c8pdxpp]Managerial musings on batting orders are the annual useless fodder of early camp. Remember Willie's plan to bat Wright eighth? By the second game of the season, if not sooner, the best laid plans will give way to necessity, improvisation, new information and whatever works.[/quote:2c8pdxpp] Well yea, it's not like we haven't heard the same words out of his mouth before. Reyes 3rd didn't even make it to the end of Spring Training, much like the "no DH in spring" rule. (Conspiracy theorists might note that he seemed to use the DH in untelevised games) I just hate that Manuel speaks whatever thought passes through his head, without actually giving us any indictation if what, if any, his real plan is. For all we know he could've already forgotten about batting Reyes third.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 19 2010 03:38 PM Re: Camp Buzz

Yeah, so you know how there was that sign in the PSL clubhouse I linked to yesterday? Well, yeah... it's actually their Spring Training slogan/focus.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 19 2010 07:30 PM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"][quote="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] But the most interesting thing Berg found? All the top suggested 2010 lineups have the pitcher batting eighth and Luis Castillo batting ninth. In essence, putting him there, Berg argues (and I don't disagree), "decreases the odds that the top of the Mets’ order — the best hitters — comes up with outs on the board and ups the chances they’ve got someone on base to drive in." Wouldn't that also be the case if Castillo hit 1st and the pitcher 9th? Or is he saying that Castillo's propensity to reach first base (and first base only) decreases the chances of getting runs in vs. a leadoff guy more likely to get an XBH? Maybe the best thing any NL team can do for its lineup is train their pitchers to hit.

Sure... but then you're also giving the most plate appearances on the team-- 50 more than the next guy-- to someone of less overall offensive value than Reyes, Wright, Beltran or Bay... or, arguably, Pagan.

It could be argued that batting the pitcher 8th gives an inferior composite-hitter slightly more at-bats than Castillo over the course of a season... but this ain't necessarily so, as the pitcher really isn't batting 4-5 times a game unless he's a good enough hitter that you want him in there 4-5 times.

I read that Berg piece a few days ago when it came out and my take on it was similar to yours. The computer generated optimal lineup recognizes that Castillo should precede rather than follow Reyes in the lineup, while also maximizing the plate appearances of the team's best player (Wright). I wonder if that program would have Pujols leading off for the Cards.

Edgy DC Feb 19 2010 10:35 PM Re: Camp Buzz

I would guess Holliday would be first and Pujols second.

bmfc1 Feb 20 2010 07:37 AM Re: Camp Buzz

If Reyes bats third, Jerry will bat Castillo 4th so he can bunt him over.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 22 2010 09:10 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Courtesy of Adam Rubin: Jerry on Wright: "He just seems refreshed to me. ... He seems a lot lighter to me spiritually as well as physically." 8:53 AM Feb 19th from UberTwitter Who knew spiritual "lightness" leads to gun ownership?

Ceetar Feb 22 2010 09:21 AM Re: Camp Buzz

looking at that picture, makes me wonder if the camera guy that took it is still alive. David looks menancing.

MFS62 Feb 22 2010 10:33 AM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="metirish"] Me , if I'm going with my thinking outside the box lineup , as apposed to pulling them out of a hat. Murphy Wright Reyes Beltran Bay Francouer Santos Castillo Pitcher No Beltran Murphy Wright Reyes Bay Pagan Francouer Santos Pitcher

This discussion reminds me of something in one of Jim Brosnan's books. (The Long Season?)
His manager (Solly Hemus?) decided th shake up the lineup. So he batted his players in defensive position number order
Pitcher
Catcher
First base
etc.

If you look at the Mets current team with a high OBP Thole as the catcher, that's not far off from some of those number-crunchers' ideas.

Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 22 2010 01:34 PM Re: Camp Buzz

"Hey... do you know what the first few years of your career remind me of, statistically speaking?"

attgig Feb 22 2010 03:53 PM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]Courtesy of Adam Rubin: Jerry on Wright: "He just seems refreshed to me. ... He seems a lot lighter to me spiritually as well as physically." 8:53 AM Feb 19th from UberTwitter Who knew spiritual "lightness" leads to gun ownership?

he was probably looking at Francoeur telling him with his eyes to stop checking him out in the locker room:

I noticed that when he took his shirt off the other day he looked more cut, he looked leaner.

Read more:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/aft ... z0gJABchcH

Ashie62 Feb 22 2010 04:28 PM Re: Camp Buzz

David looks pretty pissed..Frenchie keeps pinching his azz www.cbssportsline.com has their Mets camp tour today Nothing earth shaking, but one of the teams slogans is "Prevention & Recovery" It states the Mets lost 53 million dollars of salaried production due to injury.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 25 2010 01:45 PM Re: Camp Buzz

From a Kernan article today, in which Jeff Francoeur is his usual bubbly self, and predicts 27 HRs for him (and 35 for David Wright): "One of my big goals is to have better pitch recognition," said Francoeur, who hit .311 as a Met. "Sometimes you try to say it doesn't bother you to swing at a bad pitch, but it does. I'm human. I want to get better because I know if I can get better at that the rest of my game will follow. If I can mix in 50-60 walks, I become a totally different guy. Encouraging words, and if he hits 25-plus home runs and walks 50 times, I'm buying a Frenchy shirt... I promise. Encouraging... except, as Ted Berg points out, he's aimed at being more selective a few times before.

metirish Feb 25 2010 01:49 PM Re: Camp Buzz

Gotta love the optimism that surrounds Spring Training .

Frayed Knot Feb 25 2010 02:20 PM Re: Camp Buzz

In order to get better pitch recognition wouldn't you have to have some pitch recognition to begin with?

metirish Feb 25 2010 02:21 PM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="Frayed Knot"]In order to get better pitch recognition wouldn't you have to have some pitch recognition to begin with?

True , his pitch recognition doesn't extend beyond the first pitch in an at bat.

Frayed Knot Feb 25 2010 02:23 PM Re: Camp Buzz

JF's definition of pitch recognition: "Hey I recognize that, it's a pitch" ... HACK

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 27 2010 09:39 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Buried way down deep in a typical Adam Rubin ST I Had to File This story focusing on this week's batting-order tempest-in-teapot... the real story: Bullpen catcher Dave Racaniello may be the fittest Met in camp. Over 13 days, Racaniello rode his bicycle - yes, his bicycle - to Florida from New York. ... Wait, WHAT? That's all you give us on that, Rubin? Bullpen catcher or no... I'm a little more interested in hearing about that than listening to other people debate whether Pagan should bat 2nd or 7th.

Frayed Knot Feb 27 2010 11:35 AM Re: Camp Buzz

I had the same reaction, but if you read the comments section Rubin explains that: "People are being incredibly tight-lipped about Rac's trip. I think he's getting leery of getting too much attention, which generally isn't a good thing for a bullpen catcher." I think the whole thing would be good for at least a segment on 'Mets Weekly'

G-Fafif Feb 27 2010 12:26 PM Re: Camp Buzz

Three days from now, Mets will be playing Braves at baseball. They'll be wearing uniforms, people will be sitting in a stadium and score will be kept. It won't count, yet it will mean everything. Life becomes worth living again in less than 72 hours.

Edgy DC Mar 03 2010 07:57 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Don't even know if it qualifies as a rumor, so I'm sticking it here unless/until it survives the 24-hour mark, but there's buzzy buzz buzz that the Mets are inquiring about Adrian Gonzalez.

metirish Mar 03 2010 08:02 AM Re: Camp Buzz

I'm seeing a rumor of his going to the White Sox but not the Mets.... Meanwhile Jon Harper is aghast that anyone(except him) would even mention a Mets prospect in the same breath as the great Mo Rivera. Darryl Strawberry sees young Mariano Rivera in New York Mets' prospect Jenrry Mejia PORT ST. LUCIE - You can feel the Jenrry Mejia campaign beginning to build in earnest. So far Jerry Manuel has only lightheartedly hinted at the possibility of express-laning the 20-year-old prospect to the majors to get big outs in the bullpen this season, but now Darryl Strawberry is trying to convince anyone who will listen. Even GM Omar Minaya. "I went to Omar and told him, 'You've got to make this guy a closer,'" Strawberry was saying in animated fashion Tuesday. "I'd definitely put him in the pen this year, I don't care if he's only 20. He's got a pitch that guys can't hit. "He's the only guy I've ever seen that reminds me of Mariano Rivera." Oh no. Here we go again. I chided Manuel in a column last week for referencing Rivera when he spoke glowingly about Mejia, and now I tried to tell Strawberry it's way too premature to talk about Mejia that way. "I'm telling you," Strawberry said. "I played with Mo, I saw it up close. I know what his cutter looked like and I'm telling you, I haven't seen a pitch move like his, with that kind of velocity, until I saw this kid Mejia." Strawberry, the former Mets slugger who is in camp for a week as a coach, sat close to the plate, behind a batting-practice screen, during Monday's intrasquad game and nearly fell out of his chair when he saw Mejia start dealing. "I said to Jerry, 'What was that?'" Strawberry recalled. "And Jerry said, 'You see what I see, Straw? You see it, right?' And I said, 'My God, that's unbelievable.' "And that's his fastball. He's not even throwing a cutter. It's all natural." Yes, Mejia continues to generate the biggest buzz in Mets camp, but the problem is that he is raw, and as a starter hasn't demonstrated anything close to major-league command of his fastball. Only five months ago, he posted a 12.56 ERA in six starts in the Arizona Fall League, giving up 25 hits and 13 walks in 14 innings. Manuel admitted as much yesterday, but pointed out that Mejia is showing much more command since the manager spoke to him last week about throwing to only one side of the plate, and simply letting his cutter-like movement work for him. "Giving him just the one side of the plate has helped him," Manuel said. "He's not trying to do too much with his pitches. If he had been this far along in the Fall League, we might really be talking." Talking, that is, about plugging that electric arm into the late-inning bullpen equation. Manuel is very concerned about who can give him a dependable bridge to Francisco Rodriguez, but as much as Mejia intrigues him, he concedes the kid would have to have a lights-out spring for the organization to consider such a move. The manager does think Mejia's future might be as a reliever, simply because of the Rivera-like cutting action. For now, however, Minaya said the Mets are going to continue to groom him as a starter and will likely have Mejia open the season at Double-A Binghamton, where he struggled in 10 starts last season after dominating the Class-A Florida State League. That's the plan, he said, even if Strawberry is trying to convince him otherwise. "Darryl came to me all pumped up about the kid," Minaya said with a laugh. "He told me he's going to stay after me about it." In making his pitch, Strawberry even invoked the name of his old buddy, Dwight Gooden. He reminded everyone that manager Davey Johnson campaigned to GM Frank Cashen to keep the 19-year-old fireballer in 1984, the year Gooden went on to win Rookie of the Year honors while leading the National League in strikeouts. "It's different because I think this kid is built to be a closer," Strawberry said. "But he's ready. He'll get people out. I will stay on Omar about it." Manuel didn't seem to mind having a new wingman. "Straw's got my back, huh?" he said with a laugh. "That's a good thing, right?" We'll see. I still think the Mets would be rushing Mejia, based on his track record. Gooden, it's worth remembering, was a much more polished pitcher at 19 than Mejia is at 20. But Minaya didn't rule it out completely. "Let's see how spring training goes," the GM said. Let's see indeed. jharper@nydailynews.com

Benjamin Grimm Mar 03 2010 08:11 AM Re: Camp Buzz

I mentioned this article in the Mejia thread in Adopt a Prospect. As I said over there, I'd much rather see Mejia as a starter than a reliever.

metirish Mar 03 2010 08:25 AM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="Benjamin Grimm"]I mentioned this article in the Mejia thread in Adopt a Prospect. As I said over there, I'd much rather see Mejia as a starter than a reliever.

I agree with what you said there.

Edgy DC Mar 04 2010 11:02 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Crap-assed buzz-less headlines: Switching leagues can be boon or bust By Steve Gardner, USA TODAY Thanks, Steve! That narrows the possiblities down! It Isn't Easy to Predict What David Wright Will Do This Season By Josh Alper, NBC-New York Can I have your press pass?

Benjamin Grimm Mar 04 2010 11:03 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Stuff May or May Not Happen

metirish Mar 04 2010 11:05 AM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="Benjamin Grimm"]Stuff May or May Not Happen

That just makes me laugh....

Fman99 Mar 04 2010 11:09 AM Re: Camp Buzz

I eagerly await more titles from these esteemed writers, such as "Weather: We Just Don't Know What's Coming" and "The Future, Conan?"

G-Fafif Mar 04 2010 12:54 PM Re: Camp Buzz

Ball Reportedly Bounces Way It Does; Cookie Expected to Crumble Similarly

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 06 2010 11:26 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Well, that's curious. Henry Owens is here auditioning, and hitting around 92, 93 mph with his fastball. Yes, the same Owens the Mets traded to the Marlins.

Valadius Mar 07 2010 10:37 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Johnny Damon, freed from his deal with the devil, is thinking about returning to his Baseball Jesus look.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 08 2010 11:31 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Interesting stuff, following Hisa-- can we drop the "-nori?"-- Takahashi's ST debut yesterday, as per Mr. Hustle, the Times' David Waldstein. Strong statement, there. Jerry spinning wheels, or Jerry speaking truth? [quote="David Waldstein"]Takahashi, who was signed to a minor league contract last month, gave a commanding performance in his spring training debut, and afterward Manager Jerry Manuel all but declared him a Met. “If we were to speak today, and not having much history with him, I would say that he would definitely be one of the 11 or 12 pitchers that we take,” Manuel said after the Mets’ 6-5 victory over the Washington Nationals. “How we use him, we’d probably have to visit that at some other point. If you said to me, ‘Hey, Jerry, take your best 12,’ he’d have to be in that group somewhere.”

Also, in other spring-training roster-plan news... phew:

JUPITER, Fla. -- After watching Jenrry Mejia's first major-league spring training appearance Friday, Mets manager Jerry Manuel sounded tempted to put him on the Opening Day roster. "Wooo, wooo, man oh man," Manuel said. "The eighth inning would look pretty good for Mejia, wouldn't it?" Not as far as Mets officials are concerned. General manager Omar Minaya said Monday that the plan going into camp was for Mejia, 20, to begin the season as a starter at Double-A Binghamton. And despite Manuel's comments, that plan has not changed. Minaya left the door open for Mejia to change the team's thinking over the next few weeks, but the Mets will be reluctant to rush him. Mejia hasn't pitched above Double-A, and made just 10 starts for the B-Mets last year after starting the season with Class-A St. Lucie. Mejia is slated to pitch Monday afternoon here against the Marlins.

Jerry doesn't have the chits to pull a Davey here, either. I think. I hope.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 08 2010 11:52 AM Re: Camp Buzz

I don't know how many chits Davey would have had in 1984. He had never managed a major league game at that point, but he did have a long-standing association with Frank Cashen. General manager Omar Minaya said Monday that the plan going into camp was for Mejia, 20, to begin the season as a starter at Double-A Binghamton. And despite Manuel's comments, that plan has not changed. I don't want that plan to change. (Other than, perhaps, changing "Binghamton" to "Buffalo") I think the Mets have enough guys in camp to cobble together a decent bullpen. I want Mejia, long term, to be a starter and there's a risk he'll get pigeonholed as a reliever if he has early success there.

Edgy DC Mar 08 2010 12:12 PM Re: Camp Buzz

If I think Meijia would look good in the eighth innning, I send him out for enough seasoning that he can get through the first seven innings to get there as a starter.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 08 2010 01:52 PM Re: Camp Buzz

Speaking of Oh-Jenrry: Video from last Thursday (I think) against the Fish. Dig that sweet, sweet STFD-making cutter. http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/media/video ... id=7179293

Fman99 Mar 08 2010 01:57 PM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":wzzaezmg]Speaking of Oh-Jenrry: Video from last Thursday (I think) against the Fish. Dig that sweet, sweet STFD-making cutter. http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/media/video ... id=7179293[/quote:wzzaezmg] Sweet. Pitches have some real bite to em.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 09 2010 08:09 AM Re: Camp Buzz

wood

Benjamin Grimm Mar 09 2010 08:23 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Let this be a reminder to us all (and to all those not reading these words!) of how quickly a farm system can be replenished. It was just a few months ago that the conventional "wisdom" was that the Mets had depleted their system because of the Santana trade and lost draft picks due to free agent signings. I remember one writer somewhere saying that the Mets were so low on prospects that it would take seven years (!) before they could recover. And now, suddenly, we have guys like Mejia, Davis, Niese, Martinez, and Tejada who all may be able to step into a full-time role within the next year or two. I can see Martinez replacing Beltran in 2012, Tejada replacing Castillo the same year. Davis replacing Delgado (indirectly) in 2011 or perhaps even 2010. Mejia may be able to replace Perez in 2012 (or 2011?). Niese may get his chance to enter the rotation as early as next month.

TransMonk Mar 09 2010 08:48 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Yeah, I agree...the farm is not as bad as the media is (has been) making it out to be. I would also add that none of the prospects we traded to get Santana have panned out.

metirish Mar 09 2010 09:07 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Here here to Grim's words. I caught a bit of Gomez last night with the Brewers , they were on MLB Network. The booth guys were still talking bout his upside although they noted he has been traded twice in his young career. He's a guy I would like to see have a good career. Oh and there was Rick Peterson in the dugout, hasn't clanged a bit.

Edgy DC Mar 09 2010 09:19 AM Re: Camp Buzz

I don't think it's so much that the system recovered, but that they were never that bad to begin with. It's more a lesson to how quickly consensus can turn. It's the reputation that has recovered. The Mets were ripped for the lousy records of Binghamton and Buffalo, with few or the rippers considering the effect of the Mets injuries through the system. They had AAA players in Flushing, AA players in Buffalo, and A-level players in Bingo. What interests me is (1) how many of these guys are hitters for an organizaiton that (1) has traditionally seen pitchers stocked at the top of their prospect lists, (2) has explicitly declared an intent to build a club around defense and pitching, and (3) to the extent that they have produced postition-playing prospects, have produced athletic types who may develop as hitters or may not. The fun part is also how well distributed around the diamond the top prospects are. There's little chance that all these guys will develop into starters (I think Thole looks like a part-timer or backup), but even if the only current position player the team goes forward with is Wright or Reyes, you have the (thin) potential for this in the next few years: C: Thole 1B: Davis 2B: Havens or Tejada 3B: Havens or Wright SS: Reyes or Tejada LF: Flores CF: Martinez RF: Nieuwenhuis If you're of a mind to turn the whole team over (ashie seems to be), then maybe you reach down to Zach Lutz (#15 prospect with Inside Pitch) and stick him at third, Havens at second, and Tejada at short. Now, I'll poop potatoes if that's how it all shakes out, but they seem remarkably prepared to change on the fly.

duan Mar 09 2010 09:22 AM Re: Camp Buzz

well in fairness to him BP's Kevin Goldstein called it the last few years that it was an improving system, he's now got them in the top 15 of organisations (where I don't know) in 2008 he said 28. New York Mets Last Year's Ranking: 8 Why They're Down: Top prospect Fernando Martinez continued to struggle to stay healthy and/or produce consistently; top pitchers like Mike Pelfrey went backwards; the heart of system beyond Martinez was sent to Minnesota in the Johan Santana deal. Strengths: The '07 draft added some high-upside arms; their Latin American pipeline seems to be flowing nicely. Weaknesses: Very little talent at upper levels; almost nothing up the middle. Outlook for 2009 Ranking: Much improved. Unlike many teams at the bottom, the Mets do have a significant number of young players capable of making a leap forward; a plethora of early picks in June should also bolster things. in 2009 18. New York Mets Last Year's Ranking: 28 Why They Might Be Better Than This: The system is improved and has room for even more growth, as six of their Top 11 prospects spent 2008 in short-season leagues, with Latin American infielders Wilmer Flores and Jefry Marte both receiving raves from scouts; Brad Holt could be a real steal from the 2008 draft; Ike Davis' miserable debut could be a fluke. Why They Might Be Worse: Davis' debut was so bad that they can't just write it off; the defensive home of fellow 2008 first-rounder Reese Havens is still uncertain; Holt needs to improve his secondary stuff to avoid being categorized as a reliever; will Fernando Martinez ever stay healthy for an entire year? Outlook For 2010: Unless something strange happens with Martinez, all of these prospects should still be here come next year, which should move the Mets into the upper half of baseball after years spent near the bottom.

metirish Mar 09 2010 09:24 AM Re: Camp Buzz

I think the record from here would show that this board as a whole knew that the system was never as bad as some in the media were reporting, for a while there is was as if every article on the Mets started out with how terrible the farm is , decimated was a word often used.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 09 2010 09:34 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Yes, it's not so much a recovery as it is that we're seeing the benefits of a bunch of guys getting a year older and a year closer to being ready for the big leagues.

MFS62 Mar 09 2010 09:50 AM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="duan":11q11e7w]well in fairness to him BP's Kevin Goldstein called it the last few years that it was an improving system, he's now got them in the top 15 of organisations (where I don't know) [/quote:11q11e7w] His top 15 is supposed to be announced today. I haven't seen it yet. Later

duan Mar 09 2010 10:09 AM Re: Camp Buzz

we type he delivers NEW YORK METS Last Year’s Ranking: 18 Why They Are Here: The system is on the upswing, thanks to a nice group coming from the international market and, for the first time in a while, a draft class (2009) that looks like it will pay some dividends. With four Top 101 prospects and a three-star list that runs into the early teens, there's room for optimism here. Where They Will Be Next Year: The Mets could add another Top 50-type with the seventh overall pick in the draft, their highest slot since 2004, and fourth-highest pick in the last 25 years. Top prospects like Jenrry Mejia and Ike Davis have more of a 2011 timetable, so Fernando Martinez is the only top prospect likely to lose his eligibility this season

MFS62 Mar 09 2010 10:11 AM Re: Camp Buzz

What is this year's ranking? Later

TransMonk Mar 09 2010 10:20 AM Re: Camp Buzz

15

MFS62 Mar 09 2010 10:22 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Thanks. Later

duan Mar 09 2010 10:31 AM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="MFS62":y0tzdcoj]What is this year's ranking? Later[/quote:y0tzdcoj] ooops!

Edgy DC Mar 09 2010 10:47 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Huh-wait... he means the 2008 draft class or maybe 2007, right? The 2009 draft featured the Mets bereft of rst;u picks, ripped for the guys they didn't sign (my asshole son Damien), and signing non-debuting guys like Steve Matz late. Hard to get excited about that group yet.

Edgy DC Mar 09 2010 11:07 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Bobby Parnell and/or Sean Green could be in at least a little trouble in making the club. Or at least in a competition. If Jenrry Mejia and/or Hisanori Takahashi sneaks into the bullpen, one or two reliever incumbents could find themselves in the minors ... or traded. Parnell and Green both can be optioned to Triple-A Buffalo. Parnell is working on a cutter in bullpen sessions, which is why he's not been overly active in Grapefruit League games. I didn't know that Green could be optioned, and I don't know why. There's always loopholes to the optioning rules that elude me, but the guy has pitched three more-or-less complete seasons plus part of a fourth at the big league level. That, to me, is a guy whose options have expired.

Frayed Knot Mar 09 2010 12:58 PM Re: Camp Buzz

The very nature of farm systems makes judging them not only subjective but very erratic. Having a good one will almost certainly guarantee that it's on the way downward since good prospects who do well will "graduate" and the ones who don't fall off everyone's radar, so either way they won't be top prospects anymore.

Edgy DC Mar 10 2010 10:51 AM Re: Camp Buzz

I'm on a one-game losing streak. Somebody else throw up a game thread today.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 10 2010 04:05 PM Re: Camp Buzz

FILE UNDER NON-TROVERSY: Someone sticks a recorder in front of MFY Very Special Instructor Goose Gossage. He pauses in mid-"in-my-day"-stream to say something provocative* about a certain jitterbugging Venezuelan closer: Q. What do you think about Francisco Rodriguez, Chamberlain and the other relievers who gesture and dance around the mound? A. K-Rod is a clown. I don’t think there is any place for it in the game. You respect that other team. Cut to yesterday afternoon, Port St. Lucie. Perhaps learning a lesson from the pointlessness with erstwhile MFY Brian Bruney last spring, Frankie responds: Gossage referred to K-Rod as a “clown” in a recent interview, citing Rodriguez’s penchant for theatrics on the mound, but Rodriguez shrugged off Gossage’s comment yesterday — “I have no idea who he is,” Rodriguez said. Told about Gossage, a Hall of Fame reliever who had his best years pitching for the Yankees in the 1970s and ‘80s, Rodriguez took the high road. “We all have an opinion,” Rodriguez said. “That’s his opinion and you’ve got to respect it. I don’t care. It doesn’t bother me at all.” I would wager a pretty significant sum that Rodriguez knows perfectly well who Gossage is, and that this act is for Goose's benefit. Good on him-- it's exactly how he should play this one**. *Have he and Jim Rice gotten louder and more opinionated since sneaking into the HOF, or is it just that more people care to write their get-off-my-lawnings down? **I'd really enjoy seeing Frankie grow a Fu Manchu, too. THEN I'd clap for him.

Frayed Knot Mar 10 2010 04:50 PM Re: Camp Buzz

Gossage, meanwhile, notoriously silent on the antics of MFY reliever Joba Chamberlain who does more shuckin' and jivin' ending the [u:24mdej47]8th[/u:24mdej47] inning than Frankie does in the 9th.

metirish Mar 10 2010 05:29 PM Re: Camp Buzz

This is Gossge every Spring now right? , asshole.

themetfairy Mar 10 2010 05:51 PM Re: Camp Buzz

I need to refrain from this discussion. Gossage was nice to MK on the kid's 12th birthday, so I need to hold back from calling him out on this douchery.....

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 10 2010 09:18 PM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="Frayed Knot"]Gossage, meanwhile, notoriously silent on the antics of MFY reliever Joba Chamberlain who does more shuckin' and jivin' ending the 8th inning than Frankie does in the 9th.

To be fair, I think he's held court ina similar way on Midge Drunkerpants as well.

Which is his right, considering how shyly...



... non-demonstratively...



... and humbly the guy comported himself while he played the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r75KU9reHAs

TransMonk Mar 11 2010 08:13 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Roughly 1/3 of the way through the spring schedule and the Mets have hit 14 HR in 10 games. That puts them on pace for 48 HRs this spring. They hit 95 in all of the 2009 regular season. The offense has been scoring 7.7 runs per game...typically early and late. The pitching staff has been giving roughly 5 of those runs back per game.

metsguyinmichigan Mar 11 2010 08:20 AM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="TransMonk":udsdhnx6]Roughly 1/3 of the way through the spring schedule and the Mets have hit 14 HR in 10 games. That puts them on pace for 48 HRs this spring. They hit 95 in all of the 2009 regular season. The offense has been scoring 7.7 runs per game...typically early and late. The pitching staff has been giving roughly 5 of those runs back per game.[/quote:udsdhnx6] And how many of those homers are from guys we don't really expect to head north -- Carter, Davis, Omir.... Not complaining, mind you. Those are the guys fighting for a roster spot, and this is the way to do it. It's a good problem.

TransMonk Mar 11 2010 08:24 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Mets 2010 Spring HR Leaders: Carter: 3 Davis: 2 FMart: 2 Wright:2 R Adams: 1 R Barajas: 1 M Jacobs: 1 G Matthews: 1 Santos: 1 That's 43% of the HRs coming from guys competing for a 1B job (and none from Murphy).

metirish Mar 11 2010 11:11 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Joe Posnaski takes a few subtle swipes at Gossage here and K-Rod is still a top closer no matter what Goose Gossage may have said about him.* * I guess Gossage called K-Rod a "clown" because of his theatrics on the field, and K-Rod responded by saying he had never heard of Gossage. So, that went well. Gossage also suggested that while Mariano Rivera is the best "modern reliever," he prefers himself and the 52 saves in which he got at least seven outs. Rivera, he points out, only has two of those. Case closed. And while this is off-topic, it should be pointed out that Gossage does not have the most seven-out saves in baseball history, and he doesn't have the second most, and he doesn't have the third, fourth, fifth or sixth-most either. One of his teammates, Sparky Lyle, had more. The list of most saves, 7-or-more outs: 1. Rollie Fingers, 74 saves 2. Dan Quisenberry, 65 saves 3. Gene Garber, 64 saves 4. Hoyt Wilhelm, 61 saves 5. Mike Marshall, 57 saves 6. Sparky Lyle, 56 saves 7. Goose Gossage, 52 saves 8. Lindy McDaniel, 51 saves 9. Bill Campbell, 49 saves 10. Bob Stanley, 48 saves. Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/w ... z0htQA2nDu Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription

MFS62 Mar 12 2010 09:01 AM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="Frayed Knot":3jyxa6u9]Gossage, meanwhile, notoriously silent on the antics of MFY reliever Joba Chamberlain who does more shuckin' and jivin' ending the [u:3jyxa6u9]8th[/u:3jyxa6u9] inning than Frankie does in the 9th.[/quote:3jyxa6u9] Joba dances so much on the mound he should wear a tu tu. Just heard Ed Coleman on WFAN. Today's game has been rained out BTW. But he said that John Franco has been working with Ollie Perez. That's news to me. HAd anyone else heard he was doing that? Later

metirish Mar 12 2010 09:10 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Franco has been all over the Mets Spring Training , he's there through next week. I guess Franco will reinforce whatever Koufax said...."what did Sandy tell you Ollie? , yeah just do that"

metirish Mar 12 2010 01:08 PM Re: Camp Buzz

Sucks Twins to Mets: Go home 11:21 AM By David Lennon The Twins decided to cancel today's game in Fort Myers, but only after the Mets drove almost three hours - 2:45, to be exact -- and began unpacking at Lee County Stadium. Within 20 minutes of their arrival, the Mets were told to go home. Not cool. Especially after it had rained all night on the west coast of Florida with more thunderstorms in the forecast. When the Mets' buses left the parking lot at Tradition Field at 7:15 a.m., it was pouring rain here too. Given this was a spring training game -- and not Game 6 of the NLCS -- maybe the Twins could have acted a little sooner on this one. By the way, the Mets head back to Fort Myers on Wednesday to play the Red Sox at City of Palms Park. Hopefully the weather will be better then, for their sake.

Frayed Knot Mar 12 2010 01:28 PM Re: Camp Buzz

I think every game in the state of Florida is canceled today

Ashie62 Mar 12 2010 10:01 PM Re: Camp Buzz

and outdoor activities in NY-NJ through Sunday

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 16 2010 07:11 AM Re: Camp Buzz

The Mets' fifth starter race promises to go "down to the wire," as per Gangsta McLameDuck (via the Star-Ledger's Brian Costa). So... is it me, or is Nelly Figs-- he of the 8 scoreless this spring, 9:3 K/BB, and an almost-infinite GB/FB ratio... not to mention superlative rubber-arm-ity during the winter... and NO OPTIONS-- not getting ANY daps in the "race" coverage? And is that a function of the coverage itself, or the same minds that bring you Jenrry Mejia: Job Saver?

Benjamin Grimm Mar 16 2010 07:14 AM Re: Camp Buzz

I think he's got a shot, but both Niese and Nieve would probably have to fail for that to happen. It's less than three weeks until Opening Day. The picture should start coming into focus before too long.

Edgy DC Mar 16 2010 07:28 AM Re: Camp Buzz

Figgy is in the lead, no matter how you cut it. I mean, yeah, the Mets may be just waiting for him to fail, but he refuses.

metirish Mar 16 2010 07:34 AM Re: Camp Buzz

[quote="Edgy DC":szj9eeaf]Figgy is in the lead, no matter how you cut it. I mean, yeah, the Mets may be just waiting for him to fail, but he refuses.[/quote:szj9eeaf] Exactly , even if he wins the job going north I wonder is he a bad start or two away from losing it again. Will he get a good shot at it, then again will whoever wins it always be looking over their shoulders for the next guy? It's the nature of being th fifth guy?

Edgy DC Mar 16 2010 07:40 AM Re: Camp Buzz

I don't really mind that. I mean, yeah, if a bad start or two means banishment to Buffalo, disruption of your life, and no promise of a ticket home, that's crap; but I have no problem with rotating starters who are going through a bad stretch --- and not just number fives --- to the bullpen until they get their thang sorted out.