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The Mets and Meija

Send him to AA to start

13 votes

Send him to AA to work in the pen

0 votes

Send him to AAA to start

13 votes

Send him to AAA to work in the pen

1 votes

Send him to Majors to start

1 votes

Send him to Majors to work in the pen

4 votes

attgig Mar 12 2010 08:53 AM

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.ph ... and-mejia/ by R.J. Anderson - March 12, 2010 - Share this Article Let’s just get this part out of the way: The Mets have issues. Lots of issues. But, as if Jose Reyes’ thyroid, repeated late-season meltdowns, questionable ownership finances, and an assistant general manager turning into Hulk Hogan weren’t bad enough, now this appears: LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. – If Jenrry Mejia is assigned to the Mets’ Double-A team, he’s not going to be stretched out enough to immediately contribute in the Binghamton rotation. Jerry Manuel is determined to begin using Mejia in short and frequent relief spurts, to gauge how he reacts to pitching in that capacity, the Daily News has learned. The expectation is Mejia will remain in big-league camp through the final week working as a reliever. The scariest part of this is not that Jerry Manuel is evidently making decisions on prospects. It’s that Omar Minaya is either in complete agreement or is totally indifferent to the situation at hand. Minaya’s job is to handle the team’s present and future assets with care and diligence. Manuel’s job is to manage the players assembled by Minaya and provide input on the margins, not to decide in autonomous fashion what capacity the team’s best pitching prospect should be used during spring. Neither is doing their job. This becomes less of a possibility and more of a certainty once you realize who we’re talking about. Save the comparisons to Neftali Feliz and David Price. Neither began the season in their respective Major League team’s bullpen and both had more experience starting. Those two situations were of special circumstance (that circumstance being a heated playoff run). The Mets aren’t doing this to limit Mejia’s innings or propel them towards the playoffs. Well, they might actually be doing it for the latter, but more on that in a moment. This is all tempting because Mejia is a great arm. Keith Law had his fastball sitting in the 93-96 range with cutting action and noted his overall repertoire as “top-of-the-rotation stuff” – big praise for a 20-year-old with a little over 150 innings of experience outside of short-season ball. Baseball America ranked Mejia as the Mets’ top prospect and quoted catcher Josh Thole as saying that the movement on Mejia’s heater convinced batters that it was a slider. They also note that Manuel watched Mejia during Arizona Fall League action to gauge whether he could be of relief help in 2010. Could Mejia jump to the Majors in three weeks and succeed? Probably. He’d probably pitch quite well out of the bullpen. He has a fastball so hot that it removes the wrinkles from opposing hitters’ shirts. He could really dial that baby up even more in limited action. He might just be the best set-up man in the National League. Heck, maybe the next Mariano Rivera. And then what? Well, then the Mets enter 2011, which happens to be the final year that Francisco Rodriguez is guaranteed a paycheck. It’s also the final year that Oliver Perez, Carlos Beltran, Jose Reyes, and Luis Castillo are under contract. It’s a big year. It could be the final year they have this nucleus to really go for it before drastically altering the look of the roster. So, maybe they move Mejia to the rotation. Maybe he hits the ground running and never looks back. Or maybe, like Joba Chamberlain, he has a few hiccups moving to the rotation permanently, and rather than sending him down, they send him to the bullpen where he once again turns the eighth inning into Hades for opposing hitters. And then what? Well, then the Mets enter 2012 and Mejia is their closer. And then what? Well, then the Mets enter 2013 and Mejia is still their closer. And so on. Yes, that entire scenario is derived from a lack of confidence in the Mets and their ability to properly handle the situation. Did it fall down a slippery slope and is it a bit melodramatic? Yes, most likely. But at the same time, if they place Mejia in the pen it will open Pandora’s Box moving forward. More concisely: It sets the table for confirmation bias when Mejia is moved back to the rotation. This isn’t Earl Weaver with Dennis Martinez, Wayne Garland, or Scott McGregor. Those guys had hundreds of minor league innings before Weaver broke them in as a long reliever. This is reckless handling of a long-term asset in order to save Manuel and Minaya’s jobs. Maybe that’s too harsh, but these guys have not earned the benefit of the doubt. We haven't talked much about what's going to happen to Mejia. Does he belong in the pen? or is that bad management by higher ups who don't want to lose their jobs?

Edgy DC Mar 12 2010 08:59 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

That lede is just too loaded to tolerate, but... if he gets worked as a reliever, and the Mets decide to farm him out anyhow, he can be "stretched out" during the early part of the minor-league season, or in extended spring training. You see how easy that is?

Ceetar Mar 12 2010 09:02 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Minaya's repeatedly said Meija is going to AA. While none of this will likely have any real affect on Meija or his development, the idea that Manuel is/will do something totally against the organizational plan is a cause for concern.

MFS62 Mar 12 2010 09:11 AM Re: The Mets and Meija Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 12 2010 09:12 AM

I agree with Edgy. I have no problem with Jerry pitching him in relief in ST and then stretching him out to start when he gets sent down. That is a reasonable approach to developing a prospect who will end up a starter. What scares me was a quote I read from Jerry last week in which he said that he will try pitching Mejia two days in a row out of the bullpen. The toughest thing that can be done when "training" a young arm for the bullpen is seeing if the arm has the ability to "snap back" after pitching, so he can pitch the second day. I'd hate to take a chance on injuring an arm like he has, knowing he will eventually be a starter anyhow. Later

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 12 2010 09:11 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I don't see what the big deal is. If he's good enough to help the ballclub, let him help.

Ashie62 Mar 12 2010 09:14 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I'd like to see him as a starting pitcher for the Mets in 2011

TransMonk Mar 12 2010 09:19 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: If he's good enough to help the ballclub, let him help. I think this is what Jerry has said and I tend to agree with it's simplicity. Ashie62 wrote: I'd like to see him as a starting pitcher for the Mets in 2011 This is my ultimate hope for him as well. I'm hoping whatever they do, they cap his innings so that he is not throwing any more than his progression from last season would allow. It seems to me that spliting his 2010 time between being an MLB reliever and a AAA starter may be best.

Edgy DC Mar 12 2010 09:20 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

If pitching him two days in a row is too dangerous, then baseball is too dangerous.

MFS62 Mar 12 2010 09:23 AM Re: The Mets and Meija Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 12 2010 09:29 AM

Edgy DC wrote: If pitching him two days in a row is too dangerous, then baseball is too dangerous. Not for a guy who has experience pitching out of the pen say, every other day, for a season or two. But he's 20 years old and has always been a starter (with different warmup routines). Why risk it in his case? EDIT: That's like pulling your boat trailer with your new Porsche when you have a Jeep in your garage too. Later

Benjamin Grimm Mar 12 2010 09:26 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

If he's capable of starting I want him starting.

metsmarathon Mar 12 2010 09:28 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

i'd prefer to see him start the season in AAA, and then, if needed, come up to help the club out of the pen

Edgy DC Mar 12 2010 09:28 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

What in particular is the extent of the of the amplified injury risk? People throw on consecutive days and pitch on consecutive days every day. What, exactly, is the correct process for transitioning a guy from starting to relieving? It's done all the time.

MFS62 Mar 12 2010 09:32 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I can't quantify it. But his arm is something special. I wouldn't want to take any unnecessary risks, especially at his age. That's just my opinion. Later

Edgy DC Mar 12 2010 09:38 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

And how is that an un-necessary risk any more than any other uses? Maybe using him as a starter is a risk. I don't get it at all. Bobby Parnell has a great arm, and the Mets moved him to the bullpen last year. What of it? I think columnists are working overtime to set Met leadership up with, "If something goes wrong, it's his fault, and I'm going to fry him" scenarios. I don't think we should fall into the same trap.

metirish Mar 12 2010 09:43 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

MFS62 wrote: I can't quantify it. But his arm is something special. I wouldn't want to take any unnecessary risks, especially at his age. That's just my opinion. Later Just curious, how many times have you seen this kid pitch?

Ceetar Mar 12 2010 09:46 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: And how is that an un-necessary risk any more than any other uses? Maybe using him as a starter is a risk. I don't get it at all. Bobby Parnell has a great arm, and the Mets moved him to the bullpen last year. What of it? I think columnists are working overtime to set Met leadership up with, "If something goes wrong, it's his fault, and I'm going to fry him" scenarios. I don't think we should fall into the same trap. That's fine, because there was plenty to fry them with last year and the media just rolled over and enjoyed Manuel's quotables. But now that it's obvious they have something to prove, the media will be looking for it. This can only be good, because Manuel is a horrible manager and media pressure may get the Mets to pull the trigger.

Edgy DC Mar 12 2010 09:51 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Which is all missing my point. Accepting, for the purpose of argument, that he's horrible, it doesn't make everything he does wrong. And if the best argument that this is a wrong move is "Jerry Manuel wants to do it, and he's horrible, so it's therefore wrong" is just not fully thought out. So it's not fine at all.

TransMonk Mar 12 2010 09:54 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I've gathered from Ceetar's posts that he is not a big Jerry Manuel fan.

MFS62 Mar 12 2010 09:58 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy, All they way back, in my first comment I said I agreed with you. I have no problem with using him in the bullpen during ST and then stretching him out later as a starter. My comments were focused on the comment that Jerry said he'd use him two days in a row. If he hasn't been used as a reliever before, and he's going to be a starter in the future, I just feel doing that is unnecessary. Maybe its because I had a sore arm and never recovered from it that I tend to lean to the side of caution. Later

Edgy DC Mar 12 2010 10:11 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

That's what reilevers are. They are guys who on occasion are asked to pitch two days in a row. Some pitch more and some pitch less, but as far as I know only one has ever been restricted from pitching two days in a row. Is that now to be the only acceptable standard?

MFS62 Mar 12 2010 10:23 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: That's what reilevers are. They are guys who on occasion are asked to pitch two days in a row. Some pitch more and some pitch less, but as far as I know only one has ever been restricted from pitching two days in a row. Is that now to be the only acceptable standard? And who was that one? Anyhow, yes, relievers are called upon to pitch two days in a row (and sometimes more). But they had been relievers before, and first their arms were gradually "trained" up to the level of pitching every other day before pitching two days in a row. I think that changing this particular pitcher, given his experience as a starter and youth, over the course of a couple of weeks, is not the right course. As Dennis Miller has said "Its just my opinion and, I may be wrong." Later

Edgy DC Mar 12 2010 10:32 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

The one I speak of is Joba Chamberlain. I understand it's just your opinion, but there are holes in it that I'm trying to fill. Over the course of a couple of weeks? How many? He's been in spring training a couple of weeks and they are experimenting with him as a reliever. Not all relievers were reliever before. In fact, I imagine all of them weren't. What is your understanding of the normal course of transitioning and how do you expect any plan the Mets take to differ? Does anyobdy seriously believe the plan is to go from pitching him on four days of rest to pitching him on zero?

MFS62 Mar 12 2010 10:41 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Actually, to this point they have been using him as a substitute starter. There is a difference. He has been given his usual warmup time and routine before coming into the games to pitch multiple innings. Relievers are typically given less time to warm up. If they are going to prep him to be a reliever, then they will have start at ground zero - his warmup routine before they do anything else. And, no, I would hope he immediately wouldn't go to pitching every day. But first things first. There are only 4 weeks left. And if his arm doesn't take well to it, stop it immediately. Later

Edgy DC Mar 12 2010 11:02 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

So, you answer none of my questions, and hit me with snide stuff like "there is a difference." They have already begun transitioning him to a reliever's work schedule. And, no, I would hope he immediately wouldn't go to pitching every day. Thanks, but I asked if anybody seriously believed that the Mets planned to do that. There are only 4 weeks left. And again, what is the appropriate schedule and how are the Mets somehow violating it? How long did Aaron Heilman have or Grant Roberts or Rick Aguilera? Why do we have to go back and forth over ten posts for me to suss out what exactly is the objection?

Number 6 Mar 12 2010 02:06 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

I'm not going to speak for MFS62, but any concerns I might have are contingent on some "ifs" implied in the article, and any uncertainty is due to not having a firm grasp of what is/is not potentially dangerous for a young starting pitcher. The common wisdom as it relates to Mejia, as also applied to other young starters with great stuff, is that he would be best used as an asset in the rotation should he develop the necessary repertoire and endurance. There's probably no argument in here about that. The article seems to suggest that breaking Mejia in as a reliever in the bigs out of ST with his amount of experience would be detrimental to that goal, or at least to achieving it in the quickest and safest way possible. The article doesn't do a very good job of substantiating why that would be detrimental, and I'm not about to take it at its word. However, if the article is correct and bringing Mejia into the bullpen in a short-relief role would most likely set back his development as a starter, I would oppose it. If we get into bullpen panic mode sometime during the season, maybe the benefit it could provide to the team NOW!!! would outweigh the cost in development time, and I'd reconsider. But these days we have a bullpen corps that looks promising, and I don't see why we would have a need to gamble, if this move indeed constitutes such. More information is needed if this decision is going to be taken seriously - information that's probably out there but the author does not specifically cite. On the Jerry/Omar communication thing, sure, it would be embarrassing if they're not on the same page and Jerry is making independent decisions on prospect development. I find that a little hard to believe, though.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 12 2010 02:39 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Does anyone really think Jerry has the juice to make something controversial happen without the blessing of the front office? I don't.

Number 6 Mar 12 2010 02:43 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

RJ Anderson does, apparently.

Valadius Mar 12 2010 06:55 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

I want him starting in AAA. He's earned that much at least.

Swan Swan H Mar 13 2010 01:32 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

This is the first time I've seen him pitch. He gave up one run in two innings on a couple of moderately well-struck hits, but he seems to have some incredible stuff, as advertised. Do they call him Jannk for short?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 14 2010 12:25 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

I'd BOC Monk, but he's already been BOCed. BOCed hard. Nice piece on Mejia right here by the Star-Ledger's Brian Costa, who seems an interesting kid.

G-Fafif Mar 14 2010 02:32 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Nice piece on Mejia right here by the Star-Ledger's Brian Costa, who seems an interesting kid. Mejia started shining shoes when he was 11. He didn't necessarily enjoy the work, but he took pride in earning money when other kids he knew were picking pockets.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 18 2010 07:36 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

It has become routine to say the Mets must start strong, but it is not as if all will be nirvana if they are pre-Memorial Day champs, but are again Labor Day flameouts, circa 2007-08. They are more likely to regret rushing Mejia than to blow the season in the first 60 games due to eighth-inning shortcomings... ... Relievers are volatile, up and down. So teams can luck into late-game solutions. You cannot say the same for elite starters. Put it this way: The Mets have a better chance of unearthing Francisco Rodriguez’s set-up man than finding an internal solution when John Maine, Mike Pelfrey or Oliver Perez inevitably break body parts or hearts. Their best rotation safety net is Mejia, who became a top-30 major league prospect as a starter. But only 10 of his starts, to date, are above Single-A. So, with an eye on the long season, let Mejia refine at Triple-A. If he continues to be as tempting as he is now, then he will be quite a gift come June 1 in whatever role he is needed. Is Joel Sherman, like, a LOT smarter than we all thought? Or is he just smarter than the Omar/Jerry faction (and NYP teammate Kevin Kernan*)? *Pretty good litmus test for whether to listen to someone advocating for the Mets to take a particular course of action with Mejia: the greater the number/prominence of the Mariano RIvera or Doc invocations in said advocacy, the less you probably want to seriously listen.

Ashie62 Mar 18 2010 07:43 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: So, you answer none of my questions, and hit me with snide stuff like "there is a difference." They have already begun transitioning him to a reliever's work schedule. And, no, I would hope he immediately wouldn't go to pitching every day. Thanks, but I asked if anybody seriously believed that the Mets planned to do that. There are only 4 weeks left. And again, what is the appropriate schedule and how are the Mets somehow violating it? How long did Aaron Heilman have or Grant Roberts or Rick Aguilera? Why do we have to go back and forth over ten posts for me to suss out what exactly is the objection? Does it really friggin matter that much? Geezuz

Edgy DC Mar 18 2010 08:17 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

In the great scheme of things, no, it doesn't matter much whether Jenrry Mejia starts or relieves. If the satisfaction of your days on earth is linked to the success of the progress of the greater Mets movement, in time and in space and beyond --- and mine is --- it matters.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 23 2010 08:22 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

And here's why I don't want him in the bullpen... much less a bullpen commanded by this guy: Gangsta McLameDuck wrote: Manuel wasn't thrilled to see Mejia dabbling with a breaking ball that led to Guzman's walk. "I would like to see [Mejia] stay with the hard stuff," Manuel said. "He has enough. If he can command that [cutter], he has enough."

metirish Mar 23 2010 08:26 AM Re: The Mets and Meija Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Mar 23 2010 08:28 AM

Marty Noble in a Q@A projected Mejia as the closer when K-Rods contract is up in 2012. Do you believe Jenrry Mejia's future is in the bullpen, or are the Mets just talking about that role for him this season? He seems like he might have the potential to be a top of the rotation starter. -- Scott F., Plainview, N.Y. We haven't seen him as a starter, and we haven't seen all that much of his as a reliever. For now, the club is looking at him as a reliever, not an eighth-inning reliever yet, but perhaps by the early summer if he is successful in his first big league endeavors. My crystal ball sees this scenario developing: he becomes a successful short reliever this year, returns next year in the same role and in 2012, when Francisco Rodriguez's contract has expired, Mejia becomes the closer. That is based on nothing his stuff, his age, his circumstances and Rodriguez's contractual status. EDIT to reflect end of contract

Benjamin Grimm Mar 23 2010 08:27 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

metirish wrote: Marty Noble in a Q@A projected Mejia as the closer when K-Rods contract is up in 2011. Yuck. I'd so much prefer him to be a starting pitcher.

duan Mar 23 2010 08:57 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

yeah I saw that too and felt like banging my head off the table. Not that it's necessarily true or anything. All you need to look at is the salaries paid to 'top' relievers as only being the same as the salaries paid to middling starters to realise where the real value would lie.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 23 2010 09:23 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I'd like to believe the Mets are using Meija in relief this spring to get an idea of what he can do in a short-relief role, with an eye toward possibly bringing him up to provide that "K-Rod Factor" late in the season should they need it. Making him a reliever for at least part of the year is also a way to use him while also limiting the number of innings he'd likely throw as a starter all year now that Tom Verducci has made it clear that large percentage increases in IP year-over-year is akin to bashing a guy in the shoulder with a bat over and over. Meija threw less than 100 innings last year. I also think they are saying "we're serious about his making the opening-day roster!" as a means to throw off the vulnerable from seeing this all just a test.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 23 2010 09:31 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Earl Weaver broke in just about every starting pitcher he ever broke in, pitching short and then long relief. Weaver's pitchers had to earn their starter's stripes coming out of the bullpen. Now whether the Mets ultimately hope to develop Mejia into a major league starter is another issue, but I disagree with the idea that automatically, Mejia will get ruined pitching in a relief role. There's nothing necessarily wrong with this approach, handled right.* * I know. It's the Mets we're talking about.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 23 2010 09:51 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

How will Mejia's development be strained by bringing him up now? Mejia's main deficiency as a potential starter is consistent command of his secondary pitches, which show major-league-average potential with just a little tooling so far. Not only is he less likely to have time to tool around with those pitches under game conditions because of the role itself (get 1-3 batters out at a time under extreme results-dependent pressure), but the manager himself has come out and discouraged his development anything but the one pitch. Granted, starting one's major-league career in the bullpen isn't an automatic SP-career-killer in general. It will likely be for this particular pitcher, under this particular manager.

metirish Mar 23 2010 09:59 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Handled correctly is a key phrase for me in this, can two words be a phrase? Anyway , look at that fat fuck over in the Bronx......not "Fat Joe" but "Fat Joba", guys lights out his first year coming from the pen then when asked to start the following year he looks decidedly average trying to throw four pitches and his blazing fastball is gone it seems. It's like he was two different pitchers in the same fat body, now it looks again like he's bound for the pen Rogers tells me in his top rated podcast(I don't keep up with them) , has he been handled correctly? This is what I fear for Mejia.

duan Mar 23 2010 10:05 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

lots of guys have spent plenty of time doing long relief/spots starts before becoming the main attraction. Roy Oswalt being classic example of a guy who was brought up that way. I don't think that's what they're intending with Meija though - the way they've been talking about it you'd be fairly clear that they're seeing him as a classic middle reliever if he's up this season. I really really really think that they should just let him go to AA and start and if he continues to be lights out then look at how they bring him in to the big league level, but in the time that they're doing that they can sift through Nieve/Figgy/Takahasi/Iguchi/Misch all of whom seem worthy of more then just getting passed through waivers.

Fman99 Mar 23 2010 10:09 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

metirish wrote: Handled correctly is a key phrase for me in this, can two words be a phrase? Anyway , look at that fat fuck over in the Bronx......not "Fat Joe" but "Fat Joba", guys lights out his first year coming from the pen then when asked to start the following year he looks decidedly average trying to throw four pitches and his blazing fastball is gone it seems. It's like he was two different pitchers in the same fat body, now it looks again like he's bound for the pen Rogers tells me in his top rated podcast(I don't keep up with them) , has he been handled correctly? This is what I fear for Mejia. Listening to the Steve Rogers podcast is on my list, right after "watch the Whoopi Goldberg sex tape."

Vince Coleman Firecracker Mar 23 2010 10:09 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Making him a reliever for at least part of the year is also a way to use him while also limiting the number of innings he'd likely throw as a starter all year now that Tom Verducci has made it clear that large percentage increases in IP year-over-year is akin to bashing a guy in the shoulder with a bat over and over. Meija threw less than 100 innings last year. Except that, you know, unless some evidence for it ever pops up, there is no Verducci effect. Mejia needs to start in the minors this year. If he can learn to throw his secondary pitches for strikes, I think he becomes a monster starting pitcher. He's not gonna be learning to throw those pitches for strikes coming out of the bullpen on the Flushing Mets this year. The difference in value between Mejia and the pitcher he'd be replacing in the bullpen in the majors this year is almost certainly not worth the risk that by using him to throw almost nothing but fastballs out of the bullpen this year, essentially punting a year of possible development (not to mention possibly starting his service time clock), Mejia does not become the top-flight starter he might otherwise possibly become. I think by putting him in the bullpen this year, the team would be taking a dollar today while forfeiting ten dollars tomorrow. Of course, there's always the very possible chance that Mejia would never develop into a top flight starter no matter how the Mets treat him, but I'm optimistic about the kid. And if I thought that adding Mejia to the major league bullpen this year would be the difference between the Mets making the playoffs or not, maybe my opinion would be different. But I think it's very unlikely that this is the case this year.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 23 2010 10:09 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: How will Mejia's development be strained by bringing him up now? Mejia's main deficiency as a potential starter is consistent command of his secondary pitches, which show major-league-average potential with just a little tooling so far. Not only is he less likely to have time to tool around with those pitches under game conditions because of the role itself (get 1-3 batters out at a time under extreme results-dependent pressure), but the manager himself has come out and discouraged his development anything but the one pitch. Granted, starting one's major-league career in the bullpen isn't an automatic SP-career-killer in general. It will likely be for this particular pitcher, under this particular manager. Well then the Mets wouldn't be handling Mejia's situation the right way. (See my previous post on this thread). Weaver's pitchers, by the way, tended to arrive on the MLB scene a bit more polished than the present version of Mejia .

Edgy DC Mar 23 2010 10:15 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

It wasn't lost on me either to see the Mets experimenting with Mejia in relief while Adam Wainright was throwing for the Cardinals.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 23 2010 10:40 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Making him a reliever for at least part of the year is also a way to use him while also limiting the number of innings he'd likely throw as a starter all year now that Tom Verducci has made it clear that large percentage increases in IP year-over-year is akin to bashing a guy in the shoulder with a bat over and over. Meija threw less than 100 innings last year. Except that, you know, unless some evidence for it ever pops up, there is no Verducci effect. Mejia needs to start in the minors this year. If he can learn to throw his secondary pitches for strikes, I think he becomes a monster starting pitcher. He's not gonna be learning to throw those pitches for strikes coming out of the bullpen on the Flushing Mets this year. The difference in value between Mejia and the pitcher he'd be replacing in the bullpen in the majors this year is almost certainly not worth the risk that by using him to throw almost nothing but fastballs out of the bullpen this year, essentially punting a year of possible development (not to mention possibly starting his service time clock), Mejia does not become the top-flight starter he might otherwise possibly become. I think by putting him in the bullpen this year, the team would be taking a dollar today while forfeiting ten dollars tomorrow. Of course, there's always the very possible chance that Mejia would never develop into a top flight starter no matter how the Mets treat him, but I'm optimistic about the kid. And if I thought that adding Mejia to the major league bullpen this year would be the difference between the Mets making the playoffs or not, maybe my opinion would be different. But I think it's very unlikely that this is the case this year. Yeah, I thought my allusion to baseball bats hitting shoulders was a clue to my skepticism around the Verducci stuff, but did not see that article, so thanks. I tend to agree with the last part, I think what's most likely is the kids' gonna be what he's gonna be. Anyhow as I said before I'd be surprised if Meija doesn't wind up starting in the minors this summer.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Mar 23 2010 11:40 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah, I thought my allusion to baseball bats hitting shoulders was a clue to my skepticism around the Verducci stuff /checks sarcasm machine /notices ironitron capacitor is broken /remembers warranty is up on sarcasm machine /orders new ironitron capacitor online.

G-Fafif Mar 24 2010 07:08 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Kevin Burkhardt on SNY last night referred to Mejia as a near lock to make the team.

Ceetar Mar 24 2010 07:12 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

G-Fafif wrote: Kevin Burkhardt on SNY last night referred to Mejia as a near lock to make the team. Think David Lennon said 70% yesterday. I wonder if maybe Manuel's trying one of his back-handed techniques of trying to challenge someone else to step up. (Although unless he likes you he won't notice anyway. What's Misch's ERA again this spring?) I'll live with whatever decision they make. The worse would be trying to get him to exactly emulate Rivera and throw only fastballs, but if he's in the bullpen and including his other pitches as well..well, good for him. Honestly, once the season starts, I no longer care about prospects and development. If he's helping the team, he's helping the team. And the Mets haven't shown any indication that they'd stick to Verducci's theory anyway. (Pelfrey). So no saying he couldn't be a starter next year.

metirish Mar 24 2010 07:30 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

it sure sounds like he is going north PORT ST. LUCIE - Jenrry Mejia passed what could be an important test Tuesday, pitching an impressive scoreless inning in a 7-6 win over the Braves as he was used on back-to-back days for the first time. "I want to see the adrenaline, how he responds with that adrenaline," said Jerry Manuel. "He was very impressive." Coming on to pitch the sixth, Mejia worked an easy 1-2-3 inning, striking out Matt Diaz with a 97 mph fastball. He also got a couple of routine groundouts. Mejia's ERA is 1.54 in 11-2/3 innings with only two walks, which is most significant to the Mets because of the control issues he had in the minors and last year in the Arizona Fall League, where he walked nearly a batter an inning. "The fact that he's throwing strikes is huge for him and for us," Manuel said. "That's what we need." Mejia said his command has improved since Manuel talked to him early in camp about throwing to only one side of the plate and primarily throwing his fastball, which acts like a cutter. "I feel much better than I did in Arizona," he said. Manuel, who wants to keep Mejia to help his late-inning bullpen, continues to say he won't use him immediately in the eighth-inning role, hoping instead to ease him into such pressure situations. Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... z0j6IL25NR

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 24 2010 07:41 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Still don;t believe it will happen.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 24 2010 07:43 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Hearing it out of Blowhard McHowtheHellDidYOUWinaManageroftheYearAward or David Lennon is one thing... hearing this from Omar Minaya (via John Harper) is another: A Man Who Sounds Like He's Trying to Save His Job wrote: GM Omar Minaya said he is more open to the idea of keeping Mejia, 20, as a reliever than he was earlier in the spring "because he has shown more command" than he did as a minor-leaguer. Minaya said that even if need for such a bullpen weapon dictates the move, he still sees Mejia as a starter in the future. "Other starters have done it, starting out in the bullpen," the GM said. "Johan Santana did it." "Of course," he did not continue, "Johan was a Rule 5 pick, and the Twins are a lot more careful about holding onto those than we are-- sorry again, Darren! Additionally, he didn't really become Johan Johan until he was sent back down for a year to the minors to work on that changeup. Jjenrry will probably have to do the same, but that will be new GM Adam Rubin's problem."

metirish Mar 24 2010 07:54 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

You don't like Manuel do you LWFS? , I eagerly await your new name for him each day. Anyway , because he has shown more command" than he did as a minor-leaguer. He's still a minor leaguer technically right? , when did he pitch in the AFL? , that wasn't that long ago right?...

Ceetar Mar 24 2010 08:04 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Well, Omar's last statement was that he was going to AA. So "More Open" simply means "willing to consider it." Which is good. GMs should always consider all options. He mentions Santana not as a direct parallel, but more as a reference point to say that it's not unheard of, and that a pitcher is not barred from the rotation once he's thrown a relief inning in the majors. (Though Aaron Heilman may disagree)

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 24 2010 10:05 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

metirish wrote: You don't like Manuel do you LWFS? , I eagerly await your new name for him each day. I regarded him as a charming, relatively harmless and well-meaning-- if frustrating-- shlub up until the moment he impugned a departed Ryan Church's toughness. Now it's almost as tough to respect him as a standup guy as it is to respect his abilities as an in-game decision-maker. metirish wrote: Anyway , because he has shown more command" than he did as a minor-leaguer. He's still a minor leaguer technically right? , when did he pitch in the AFL? , that wasn't that long ago right?... He's pitched 166 1/3 total innings as a professional over two seasons, 44 1/3 of that above A-ball. Bringing him up now under this particular regime would be like bringing up Dwight Gooden in 1983 to help that pen, and telling him to knock off that curveball crap.

smg58 Mar 24 2010 10:55 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I think it's easier to move a starter to the pen mid-season than to do it the other way around. Wainwright was a starter in the minors, came up to fill a need because he was the best arm they had for the role, and eventually thrived as a starter at this level. Joba's ascent to the big leagues started similarly, but then they tried to ease him from relieving to starting mid-season in 08, and he's since gone backwards. I think if you commit to using Mejia as a reliever right now, you had better commit to keeping him in the pen for all of 2010. Among other things, that means you need to be confident he can stay up in the majors all season; otherwise, assuming you see him as a starter long-term, you've cost him a year of development. Personally I've been wavering on my opinion of his ability to handle it, but Parnell survived in the Mets pen last year after making a similar transition. Mejia is more talented than Parnell, so lately I've been leaning towards bringing him to Queens.

attgig Mar 25 2010 09:28 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I think anyone and everyone doesn't like Meija in the pen this year.... well, anyone and everyone except the 2 voters here, and jerry and omar... maybe the 2 voters here ARE..... hmmmm: http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/tmi-mlb/post?id=1269 FanGraphs: Is Jenrry Mejia the next Joba? March, 25, 2010 By Joe Pawlikowski, FanGraphs After a year in which three of their best players missed a major chunk of the season, the Mets needed some good news to kick off 2010. They've gotten some in the form of the performance of their best prospect, righthander Jenrry Mejia. After striking out more than a man per inning last season as the youngest player in the Eastern League (Double-A), the 20-year-old has been the talk of camp with his electric mid-90s fastball. He's been so good, in fact, that the club is thinking of promoting him to the big leagues as a reliever. While he might thrive in that role, it would still be a bad decision. Manager Jerry Manuel has pondered Mejia in the bullpen because he thinks he and Francsico Rodriguez will give the team a dynamic one-two combo to finish games. The problem is that Mejia still has a lot of development left. He admits his command issues, saying that he aims for the middle of the plate and hopes for the best. His slider also needs work, though he does feature an impressive changeup. As a reliever, these secondary pitches would not get the attention they need to improve. The Mariners and Yankees should both provide cautionary tales for the Mets. Each tried to groom a young starter with ace potential, Brandon Morrow and Joba Chamberlain respectively, in the major league bullpen. While both performed well, they have also struggled in the transition back to the rotation. The Mariners ended up trading Morrow, while the Yankees have seemingly moved Chamberlain back to the bullpen once again. What's so bad about the bullpen? After all, both Morrow and Chamberlain have pitched well as relievers. Their teams, though, won't realize maximum value. Starters affect a much greater portion of a team's innings. If a team has 1450 IP in a season, a 200-inning starter covers 13.8 percent of the total time. A reliever who throws 70 innings affects just 4.8 percent of total innings. This shows up in Wins Above Replacement (WAR), too. Last year Barry Zito, who had had a 4.03 ERA in 192 innings, was worth 2.2 WAR, while Heath Bell, the NL saves leader, was worth 2.0 WAR. And if you don't believe WAR, look at the free agent market, where the contracts given to top-flight starters typically dwarf those given to elite relievers. The Mets might not have as strong a bullpen this year without Mejia, but by allowing him to properly develop in the minors they could see a greater return in the future. That's not easy to stomach for fans who want to win today, nor is it an easy decision for Jerry Manuel and Omar Minaya whose jobs might be on the line, but it is the correct one for the future of the team. Considering the Mets haven't featured a homegrown ace since Doc Gooden, you'd think they realize it would be foolish to stunt Mejia's growth.

Edgy DC Mar 25 2010 09:33 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

LeiterWagner's directive: don't do anything. In fact, try not to move. Just sit there until we fire you. Better yet, sit there until we die and our replacments fire you.

Edgy DC Mar 25 2010 09:36 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

attgig wrote: After a year in which three of their best players missed a major chunk of the season... Three? I guess it depends on how you define "best" and "major chunk," but it seemed more like twenty-three.

Fman99 Mar 25 2010 09:46 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I think anyone and everyone doesn't like Meija in the pen this year.... well, anyone and everyone except the 2 voters here, and jerry and omar... maybe the 2 voters here ARE..... hmmmm: http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/tmi-mlb/post?id=1269 FanGraphs: Is Jenrry Mejia the next Joba? March, 25, 2010 By Joe Pawlikowski, FanGraphs I'll let you know if his mom ever sells me any meth.

Frayed Knot Mar 25 2010 10:07 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

There are various ways you can go with all these: pen-v-starter; now-v-later; MLB-v-minors questions with Mejia - but I don't think citing either the Johan or Joba scenarios are all that enlightening.

Valadius Mar 25 2010 10:50 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Ceetar wrote: Well, Omar's last statement was that he was going to AA. Congratulations Omar, way to take responsibility for your actions.

attgig Mar 25 2010 11:29 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

some more wood for the already blazing fire. http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/spring20 ... id=5024468 New York Mets: Set-Up Reliever Mejia passes another test: The Mets are searching for an eighth-inning man to set up Francisco Rodriguez, and Jenrry Mejia could have the job sooner rather than later. Mejia was used on back-to-back days for the first time this spring on Tuesday and worked a 1-2-3 inning against Atlanta, striking out Matt Diaz with a 97 mph fastball and lowering his ERA to 1.54. "The fact that he's throwing strikes is huge for him and for us," manager Jerry Manuel said via the NY Daily News. The manager, however, hinted he might use someone else in the eighth-inning role to start the season and ease Mejia into pressure situations. Bobby Parnell and Sean Green are among the possibilities. We asked Keith Law what he thinks of the Mets' converting their top prospect from starter to reliever, at least for the short term: Keith Law Mets are messing with Mejia "I hate it. He's a raw, high-upside arm with the weapons to be a starter in the long term, if he's given time to improve his command and consistency on his change and curve. Instead they're cutting off that upside for a quick fix in the pen. By the way, promoting prospects who aren't ready is a hallmark of GMs in fear for their jobs."

Edgy DC Mar 25 2010 11:32 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Keith Law wrote: By the way, promoting prospects who aren't ready is a hallmark of GMs in fear for their jobs. Oh, listen to Johnny Potstirrer.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 25 2010 11:35 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: LeiterWagner's directive: don't do anything. In fact, try not to move. Just sit there until we fire you. Better yet, sit there until we die and our replacments fire you. Actually, I would have been more of a fire-him-now guy. But I kind of like your idea better. More fun for the casual, mildly-sadistic observer, and better for Goatee McNoConceptofMaximizingTalent in the long run, what with the isometric exercise it would entail.

Edgy DC Mar 25 2010 11:38 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I just want to keep posting until we get a page past poor Ms. Chamberlain.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 25 2010 11:39 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: I just want to keep posting until we get a page past poor Ms. Chamberlain. Admit it; you're as aroused by that photo as I am.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 25 2010 11:44 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I just want to keep posting until we get a page past poor Ms. Chamberlain. Admit it; you're as aroused by that photo as I am. It's sort of stimulating. Like a too-spicy tomato sauce, or a picture of a thonged Giambi.

Ceetar Mar 25 2010 12:39 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

The thing that I always wonder about these "He's doing it to save his job!" arguments is..if he's not ready, how is this going to save anyone's job? If Mejia comes up and is successful, he was at least some measure of 'ready'. And if he helps the Mets win games, that's all that's important.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 25 2010 12:47 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Ceetar wrote: The thing that I always wonder about these "He's doing it to save his job!" arguments is..if he's not ready, how is this going to save anyone's job? If Mejia comes up and is successful, he was at least some measure of 'ready'. And if he helps the Mets win games, that's all that's important. Actually, no, marginal wins this year-- and 1 win or so is the difference between the worst possible choice here and the best one-- are not all that's important. To paraphrase someone commenting on AA, it's like breaking into your kid's college fund because you're not sure he'll ever be a success there, so... hey, why not send him to Space Camp and eat out for a year?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 26 2010 12:19 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Christ, even Bobby O is weighing in on the side of reason here: Q: Do you think Jenrry Mejia is major league ready? A: I am a big believer in you can't get by with one pitch. When I was [in Florida] earlier in spring training, his other pitchers were coming along, but the fastball is the only pitch he can depend on. And if there is a day when that fastball doesn't show up, then he would have no plan B.

Edgy DC Mar 26 2010 12:33 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

OK, let's talk about reason. By saying he was dissuading Mejia from using his curve with three balls in a game situation, that's not dissuading Mejia from ever using his curve. There's a long tradition of teaching young pitchers to get beat on their best pitch and to use their other pitches to set those up. And it's certainly not leaving him with one pitch. I prefer they don't elevate him to the bigs yet either, but there's a ton of precedent for bringing a player up as a reliever and making him a starter subsequently.

metirish Mar 26 2010 12:39 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Q&A from today with Lennon Asked about Mejia Ryan - I respect the other side of the debate. I really do. But I also believe that if Mejia can help the Mets out of the bullpen -- to start the season - I think they need him there. This does not mean it's the end of Mejia's career. It's not going to doom him to the bullpen forever - or ruin his development. And like it or not, he's going to be with this team from Opening Day as a relief pitcher. Let's see where it takes them. Plus, if they left Mejia in the minors, and we had to keep watching Green and Parnell give away games, people would be screaming to have Mejia in the bullpen.

Ceetar Mar 26 2010 12:49 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ceetar wrote: The thing that I always wonder about these "He's doing it to save his job!" arguments is..if he's not ready, how is this going to save anyone's job? If Mejia comes up and is successful, he was at least some measure of 'ready'. And if he helps the Mets win games, that's all that's important. Actually, no, marginal wins this year-- and 1 win or so is the difference between the worst possible choice here and the best one-- are not all that's important. To paraphrase someone commenting on AA, it's like breaking into your kid's college fund because you're not sure he'll ever be a success there, so... hey, why not send him to Space Camp and eat out for a year? I don't think that's a fair comparison. More apt would be a kid in college, working an internship for both experience and to help pay for his education, who decides he needs to quit his job because he wants to do better on the educational aspect. This may hamper him being able to pay for school down the line, and it may take him longer to build the experience needed to find a job in his field when he graduates by quitting the internship, but the #1 goal is still to complete his education. The #1 goal here is the Mets winning games in 2010 at the Major League level. developing prospects for games in 2011 and 2012 is secondary, and their are other options in that regards from other prospects, freeagents and trades.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 26 2010 12:51 PM Re: The Mets and Meija Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 26 2010 12:59 PM

Edgy DC wrote: OK, let's talk about reason. By saying he was dissuading Mejia from using his curve with three balls in a game situation, that's not dissuading Mejia from ever using his curve. There's a long tradition of teaching young pitchers to get beat on their best pitch and to use their other pitches to set those up. And it's certainly not leaving him with one pitch. It is leaving him with one pitch that he can consistently command, though. Manuel didn't just push him in that one spot to throw the fastball. He's been pretty consistent without that message throughout ST, it seems. John Harper wrote: Mejia said his command has improved since Manuel talked to him early in camp about throwing to only one side of the plate and primarily throwing his fastball, which acts like a cutter. It's not ruining his development that's my concern... or my chief concern, really. It's the fact that (A) usage as a reliever for the entirety of this season delays his development as a starting pitcher by at least a season and (B) usage as a reliever at the Majors burns an arbitration year for-- best-case scenario-- a marginal gain from that relief slot this year. Assuming no injuries, you're burning something like two years-- potentially-- of good-to-great SP value for a year of relief when you have other good options.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 26 2010 12:57 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: The thing that I always wonder about these "He's doing it to save his job!" arguments is..if he's not ready, how is this going to save anyone's job? If Mejia comes up and is successful, he was at least some measure of 'ready'. And if he helps the Mets win games, that's all that's important. Actually, no, marginal wins this year-- and 1 win or so is the difference between the worst possible choice here and the best one-- are not all that's important. To paraphrase someone commenting on AA, it's like breaking into your kid's college fund because you're not sure he'll ever be a success there, so... hey, why not send him to Space Camp and eat out for a year? I don't think that's a fair comparison. More apt would be a kid in college, working an internship for both experience and to help pay for his education, who decides he needs to quit his job because he wants to do better on the educational aspect. This may hamper him being able to pay for school down the line, and it may take him longer to build the experience needed to find a job in his field when he graduates by quitting the internship, but the #1 goal is still to complete his education. The #1 goal here is the Mets winning games in 2010 at the Major League level. developing prospects for games in 2011 and 2012 is secondary, and their are other options in that regards from other prospects, freeagents and trades. You've got your analogy inside-out. Bringing him up as a bullpen arm is more like Mejia's baseball "parents" forcing him to quit school to work because they may have trouble with the rent this month (when they've got about 5-6 other options to make said rent). And if a GM's number-one goal in approaching every resource he has is to win as much as possible this season, at any cost and with everything else a distant second, then it's probably best for said GM to be nowhere near a decision-making role in a top-flight baseball organization-- or any business, for that matter.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 26 2010 01:02 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

I hear you, but I'm not with you. 1) I don't care about efficient use of resources, or arbitration clocks, at least not as a primary concern. Certainly it's not worth getting hot over. 2) I don't presume to interpret Jerry's remarks to reporters as a blueprint for how the organization might or might not approach working privately with any player. 3) I don't presume to know enough about developing pitchers to feel CAHNfident in advocating any one philosophy with any one guy. Just tell me you're not going to be with those dopes out to embarrass the rest of us by rallying outside the TV studios.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 26 2010 01:05 PM Re: The Mets and Meija Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 26 2010 01:07 PM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Just tell me you're not going to be with those dopes out to embarrass the rest of us by rallying outside the TV studios. LWYP's already in her Manny wig and "JELP JENRRY JELP YOU" baby-tee.

attgig Mar 26 2010 01:06 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: John Harper wrote: Mejia said his command has improved since Manuel talked to him early in camp about throwing to only one side of the plate and primarily throwing his fastball, which acts like a cutter. so, if Mejia learned a cutter, would it act like a super cutter? (on edit, thank God I don't have to see that ugly mugshot again...)

metirish Mar 26 2010 01:13 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I Just tell me you're not going to be with those dopes out to embarrass the rest of us by rallying outside the TV studios. You know it's baseball season when you see Bucket jumping up and down in the street outside SNY's studio, even in the rain.

Ceetar Mar 26 2010 01:16 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I hear you, but I'm not with you. 1) I don't care about efficient use of resources, or arbitration clocks, at least not as a primary concern. Certainly it's not worth getting hot over. 2) I don't presume to interpret Jerry's remarks to reporters as a blueprint for how the organization might or might not approach working privately with any player. 3) I don't presume to know enough about developing pitchers to feel CAHNfident in advocating any one philosophy with any one guy. Just tell me you're not going to be with those dopes out to embarrass the rest of us by rallying outside the TV studios. Are they going to write their "Demote Mejia!" banners on the back of "Get Manny!" from last year? Ridiculous 'real world' analogies aside, I think there is a chance that either option could be a good one, if done correctly, and evaluated properly. From what I've seen (1 inning of him pitching on tv, and a lot of text.) I'd demote him and have him start. Beat writers seem to think it's almost a foregone conclusion he's in the bullpen, but I'm not convinced. I think most of the discussion on this stems from comments made from Manuel, who hopefully doesn't have any say in this matter.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 26 2010 01:40 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Fair point. My shut-in, diaper-changing ass needs to get outside and see some sunshine.

metirish Mar 26 2010 01:44 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

I know Manuel is an easy target but I hope he does have a say in what happens to Mejia, if not what's the point? In fact I think I would trust him on this matter to do what is best, best for who I don't know.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 26 2010 01:46 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

The manager of the team certainly should have a say in who makes the team and who doesn't.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 15 2010 10:17 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

As per Metsblog: Jerry Manuel said yesterday the Mets have discussed sending Jenrry Mejia back to the minor leagues to be stretched out as a starting pitcher, though, for now, he’ll remain in the bullpen. “It has come under some debate,” Manuel explained. “I’m more inclined to continue to keep him in the role that he is, but obviously make him have a more important role down there than the one he has now.” Well, as long as that's decided.

smg58 Apr 15 2010 10:57 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

If you're going to shorten him up you ought to be committed to sticking with it. Jerking him back and forth during the season is the worst thing you can do. It will look bad if all Mejia winds up doing is keeping a bullpen seat warm for two weeks until Calero is ready.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 15 2010 10:58 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Hush, youse-- Omar's got a plan. And this plan, he likes this plan. You will, too.

Edgy DC Apr 15 2010 11:44 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I'll say it. I trust and respect Omar distinctly more than I T&R Jerry.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 15 2010 11:50 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: I'll say it. I trust and respect Omar distinctly more than I T&R Jerry. Yeah, me too. I wish like hell that Omar hadn't passed on all those pitchers last winter, but overall he seems to have a better handle on his job than Jerry has on his.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 26 2010 10:54 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

So, Nieve's emerging as a rubber-armed (at least until the call to Dr. Andrews in July) late-inning force, and Acosta is beginning to look serviceable himself. So... with the two hardstuff-purveyors in the pen already, maybe young Mejia could move back to the minors-- or start up here, even-- instead of playing Brown Stokes in the back of the b--oh, he can't? Why's that, Jefe? While there has been a tempest among fans wishing that Mejia would be in the minors readying for a starting job, Manuel feels he's not suited for starting now. "I don't think he has had enough of his repertoire to show," he said. "He's been mostly a one-pitch or two-pitch guy, but as a starter, the repertoire of the curveball, the change-up, the sinker, all those type of things are needed." Oh, that's hilarious.

Edgy DC Apr 26 2010 11:09 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I think relieving at the big league level and returning to the rotation in winter ball is a workable plan, though, don't you?

Ceetar Apr 26 2010 11:40 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: I think relieving at the big league level and returning to the rotation in winter ball is a workable plan, though, don't you? I always feel any major league experience is worth so so much more than minor league. People make arguments about mental toughness, but with the exception of a few players (Nick Evans perhaps), most athletes are mentally tough enough to overcome it. There is so much failure in baseball that if a guy was ruined if he didn't succeed in his first taste, so few players would ever make it. And at this point I'm no longer concerned with Mejia's "development" only with the 2010 Mets. Let him stretch out in winter ball, stop thinking about Verducci (The Mets haven't shown that they necessarily believe or adhere to any sort of Verduccian innings limit for sophmores) and let him pitch here this year if he can help the team win.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 26 2010 11:43 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: I think relieving at the big league level and returning to the rotation in winter ball is a workable plan, though, don't you? Not if you're not going to use him, it's not. In a pen where Francisco Rodriguez was just used thrice in three days, and Nieve's been in 12 of 18 full-size games, Mejia's on pace for 56 innings, and has faced one batter since the Igarashi injury. It stands to reason that the organization should either use him frequently-- the whole point of having him up was to help the major-league team, right?-- or send his ass down so he can work on this secondary pitch problem that Bespectacled Genius over here just discovered.

Edgy DC Apr 26 2010 11:48 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I think it stands to reason that he'll get used, that Jerry is trying to ease him as best as the situations will allow, and all should be thankful he hasn't been used as much as others have been.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 26 2010 12:37 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: I think it stands to reason that he'll get used, that Jerry is trying to ease him as best as the situations will allow, and all should be thankful he hasn't been used as much as others have been. Whence this new faith in Ol' Jerry's bullpen management/general stewardship?

Edgy DC Apr 26 2010 12:54 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

I don't think of it particularly as faith in Jerry's stewardship, so much as observation of how Jerry's described his intentions, observation of how frequently Manuel goes to the pen, and observation of the nature of attrition. Do you really think he'll developmentally stagnate from disuse?

Ceetar Apr 26 2010 01:01 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

At one point wasn't he in like 4/5 of games? Maybe Jerry's just figuring he should give him a couple of days after that, and situations just stretched it a bit. He was warming up last night. Maybe they chose Valdes when it started to rain figuring he's the guy they'd most prefer to burn if their was a long delay.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 26 2010 02:04 PM Re: The Mets and Meija Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 26 2010 02:30 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I don't think of it particularly as faith in Jerry's stewardship, so much as observation of how Jerry's described his intentions, observation of how frequently Manuel goes to the pen, and observation of the nature of attrition. Do you really think he'll developmentally stagnate from disuse? I think it's possible that he develops habits-- working in-game to hitters and between games to stay loose--that do not necessarily suit him for future-starter duty, habits which-- owing to his youth-- may prove a bit difficult to break once crystallized. And both you and Cee make fair points about bullpen usage. I just thought it kind of bemusing (I wish it were surprising) that HungJerry slags Mejia's secondary stuff for lack of development when he has had a direct impact on that very deficiency, and argued the opposite way just weeks ago ("Keep him up," "all he needs is that fastball," yadda yadda yadda).

Ceetar Apr 26 2010 02:09 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

I routinely mute or turn off the TV when Jerry's on now. I don't need to be lied to or try to spot all the contridictions like some crazy Mets word puzzle. I only listen when he's on with Francesa and i'm stuck in the car anyway. But that was my biggest contention with the move to begin with. If it was me, he'd have gone to AA, but I could live with him in teh Majors if he was helping and was still throwing his secondary stuff and not being pigeon holed into some sort of Rivera emulation.

Edgy DC Apr 26 2010 02:20 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

I don't think it's that surprising. He wants him to focus on his primary pitches right now and use the secondary pitches more to show. If and when he develops into a starter, he intends for Mejia to be bringing those pitches along. When asked why he's not an option for a starter right now, well, one reason is that he hasn't been developing those secondary pitches, under management's advice. I don't think there's any gotcha there. If you don't believe he's going to stagnate from disuse, why intimate otherwise? It's pretty clear what's going on here.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 26 2010 02:36 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Mejia suffers from disuse insofar as he could be doing other things that benefit him and the organization more profoundly-- for example, cutting his starter teeth right now in AA. If the major-league team is not using him much-- and really, only in blowouts/last-pitcher-standing-fests-- then why is he here and not there?

Edgy DC Apr 26 2010 02:52 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

You're kind of going back and forth from he's suffering disuse, he's not really suffering disuse, to he is really suffering disuse. I can keep repeating myself that he likely will, but it's really just a slow week for the bullpen because the starters have thrown well.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 26 2010 03:52 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

I really don't see what you're seeing here as far as my supposed vacillation goes. I don't recall making the argument that he was suffering from disuse at all-- or even addressing that aspect of this, until you did. The only statements/points I've made are: A) He's up in the majors ostensibly to bolster the bullpen. B) Of late, he appears to be the last man out of said bullpen,* and therefore, isn't helping the major-league team all that much. C-1) By dint of his current role (both as defined by his manager/pitching coach and an in-game risk-reward scale that tends to punish-- or at least urge away from-- experimentation), he is also not working on his secondary pitches (which his manager recently agreed need development if he's to become anything but a short-relief arm). C-2) By providing little value to the major-league team while not working on his secondary pitches, he is being wasted (exactly how much, I'll grant, is arguable). D) It strikes me as sort of funny for a manager that argued for him to be here, living by the fastball almost exclusively (something like 85 percent of his pitches thrown, IIRC), to kvetch publicly about his lack of secondary stuff. So I could at least thank Manuel for that dark little laugh, I suppose. (Thanks!) *A point I later modulated somewhat.

Edgy DC Apr 26 2010 06:05 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Come on. You know he wasn't "kvetching." At all. He was answering a question as to why he doesn't want to use the guy as a starter with his team. He's preparing him for a different role right now. Would you have him answer another way? "Sure, I think it's a great idea to have him start!" You'd obviously rip him to shreds for setting the guy up to fail by developing him for one role and throwing him in another. So he's protecting the guy from that sort of failure --- exactly what you'd want. Is there any right here? Because I don't want to think it's just "Jerry's always wrong because it's Jerry."

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 18 2010 12:00 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

As per ESPN-NY's Adam Rubin, Jenrry Mejia will be headed for the minors (level unspecified) to prepare himself to start again. That could be timed with R.A. Dickey’s activation before Wednesday’s start, a team source told ESPNNewYork.com. The decision is believed to have been affirmed during Monday’s meeting at Turner Field that included chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon, GM Omar Minaya, assistant GM John Ricco and manager Jerry Manuel.

Frankenstein May 18 2010 03:58 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

GOOOD!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 18 2010 06:52 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Frankenstein wrote: GOOOD! But how do you feel about this week's possible firings?

Frankenstein May 18 2010 07:20 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

JEFF - BAAAAD! OMAR - BAAAAD! JERRY - BAAAAD!

MFS62 May 18 2010 07:32 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

There goes the neighborhood. EDIT. Er, I guess as long as you're a Mets fan, welcome, big guy. Later

Edgy DC May 18 2010 08:07 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I'm glad the monster agrees, because the blogosphere is frying the Mets for this.

MFS62 May 18 2010 08:09 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: I'm glad the monster agrees, because the blogosphere is frying the Mets for this. For letting him stretch out to be a starter? Or for delaying the move? Later

Gwreck May 18 2010 08:11 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: blogosphere I vote to ban this word.

Benjamin Grimm May 18 2010 08:13 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

MFS62 wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I'm glad the monster agrees, because the blogosphere is frying the Mets for this. For letting him stretch out to be a starter? Or for delaying the move? Later I think for changing their minds.

Ceetar May 18 2010 08:15 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Gwreck wrote: Edgy DC wrote: blogosphere I vote to ban this word. I don't have a real problem with the word, but it does generally seem to have a negative connotation to it. Seems like the Mets did actually have a plan with Mejia though. Willing to try things, didn't meet expectations or whatever, so starting it is.

Gwreck May 18 2010 08:21 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

There's no evidence that the Mets had any particular plan, nor is there any evidence to suggest Meija failed to meet expectations. In fact, he was very good as a reliever (18 Hits and 8 BBs in 17 1/3 IP, 14Ks, 2.60 ERA).

Edgy DC May 18 2010 08:24 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Of course they had a plan. And it's important to value the plan, but it's also important to adapt the plan as new information becomes available and circumstances change.

Frayed Knot May 18 2010 08:33 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I was very against Mejia starting the year both in the majors and in the pen - but, in all, things didn't turn out so bad. He got his feet wet and showed he can complete at this level despite his youth and small amount of pro experience. It also served to keep his overall innings count down as compared to what it was likely to have been if he went wire to wire as a starter. Now **hopefully anyway** they can/will build him back up to throwing starter innings in an environment where development takes precedence over winning the game and, as long as they don't feel some sort of need to rush him back as a ML starter according to some timetable that's based on everything except his needs, this could all work out for filling a rotation spot later in the year.

smg58 May 18 2010 09:04 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I don't like messing around with a very young arm, so while I'd have preferred to see him start in AAA this year, I think it would have been better for Mejia to stick with relieving once he was committed there. It's not hard to bring up a starter to use in the pen late in the year if he fills a need, but it's not clear that stretching a young arm out mid-season is as benign (see Joba rules).

Edgy DC May 18 2010 09:08 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

It's not clear that it's harmful either.

Gwreck May 18 2010 09:10 AM Re: The Mets and Meija Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 18 2010 09:10 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Of course they had a plan. Aside from "start him in the majors as a reliever" I don't see any evidence of a "plan." I see them changing things as injuries dictate (ie. Niese down, but Igarashi is coming back).

batmagadanleadoff May 18 2010 09:10 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

The Mets haven't said this, but it's possible that the main reason for Mejia's demotion might be Ollie Perez's refusal to be sent down. As it is, the Mets hands are tied behind their back if they're forced to squander a roster spot on Ollie, who will now likely be limited to garbage time. There's no way that the team can also afford to carry Mejia, who's being coddled, presumably because of his youth and inexperience. Just because they didn't say it, doesn't mean it ain't true.

Edgy DC May 18 2010 09:12 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

A lot of things can be true, but Takahashi goes to the rotation and Perez goes to the back of the pen. Where's the roster pinch? Where Perez is involved is his failure to succeed as a starter increases the demand for starters.

Edgy DC May 18 2010 09:18 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Gwreck wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Of course they had a plan. Aside from "start him in the majors as a reliever" I don't see any evidence of a "plan." I see them changing things as injuries dictate (ie. Niese down, but Igarashi is coming back). Which is the way the world works. And while they said all along that they were planning to use him in the pen as a reliever to get his feet wet in the majors but not lock him in that role, it was skeptically received in this thread. Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential – Winston Churchill Plans are nothing; planning is everything. – Dwight D. Eisenhower No battle plan survives contact with the enemy. – Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

batmagadanleadoff May 18 2010 09:19 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Where's the roster pinch? I get the impression that Mejia's getting somewhat of the kid glove treatment usage-wise ... that Manuel is reluctant to use him in certain spots. Mejia's the least used of all pitchers that have been on the roster since opening day. If Mejia truly is getting the kid-glove treatment, the Mets can no longer afford to carry him and garbage time Ollie simultaneously.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 18 2010 09:23 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Igarashi is soon to return although on performance alone I guess his spot would go to Acosta. Also, the lack of starting depth could also make them look more closely at Mejia as a potential answer. I'm concerned that Takahashi will soon turn into a pumpkin.

MFS62 May 18 2010 09:23 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential – Winston Churchill Plans are nothing; planning is everything. – Dwight D. Eisenhower No battle plan survives contact with the enemy. – Helmuth von Moltke the Elder Another one, taught in the US Army : The 6 Ps - Prior planning prevents piss poor performance. Later

Edgy DC May 18 2010 09:31 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Hisanori Takahashi has thrown 3.7 innings per week. If all Ollie can manage as his replacement is three, is it really going to tax Mejia so much if the rest of the pen has to pick up those other two outs? I think it's clear that Mejia is going down because they may need him as a starter.

attgig May 18 2010 12:45 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: I think it's clear that Mejia is going down because they may need him as a starter. if that does happen....does that mean Ollie is permanently in the pen?

Benjamin Grimm May 18 2010 12:49 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Well, no. Niese may be out for a while. And Oliver could possibly pitch his way into the rotation at John Maine's expense.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 17 2010 10:01 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Joel Sherman-- who, to be fair, has been on this side of the debate since the first Mariano comparisons escaped Jerry Manuel's lips this spring-- continues taking the Mets to task about their usage/handling of young Jenrry. Yes, we continue to monitor how the Mets use Jenrry Mejia and, yes, we continue to be astounded this is how the Mets are wasting the season of their best pitching prospect. In other words, this is not a new diatribe from this space, but this continues to be an issue that is stunning to me. So much is breaking positive for the Mets, but not having the youngest pitcher in the NL in the minors honing his craft to help at some future point just falls under the category of DUMB. His value to the 2010 Mets – as a pitcher or a trade chip – is being diminished. In his last six outings, since May 31, Mejia has appeared in six games. In one, the Mets trailed by two runs when he entered. In the other five, the Mets were ahead or behind by no fewer than five runs when he came in. For the season 12 of his 29 appearances have begun in that situation: at least a five-run lead one way or the other. He has not been asked to protect a tie and/or a lead of two or fewer runs since May 4 in Cincinnati. And maybe the inconsequential role is beginning to impact his stuff. Consider that he has faced 18 batters in June and has struck out none of them. Last night, asked to defend a five-run lead, Mejia walked the only two batters he faced. The Mets could not really have envisioned this as a development plan for Mejia: That by mid-June he would be a mop-up man with a far inferior role to Elmer Dessens. It is not too late. Get him to the minors. Get him starting. Build up his arm, his repertoire and his experience – and his value.

Edgy DC Jun 17 2010 10:30 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I just wish somebody would acknowledge there's at least some benefit to him pitching against and retiring major league batters, or reducing the workload on him. I'd like to see him go down also, but "astounded? "Stunning?" "DUMB"? It's a much more nuanced question.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 17 2010 10:33 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Yabbut that benefit is at least partially mitigated by how low-leverage/infrequent the assignments are, right?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 17 2010 10:39 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I saw DUMB out of the corner of my eye and realized that it's an anagram for UMDB. I should try to leverage that somehow.

Edgy DC Jun 17 2010 10:43 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Yabbut that benefit is at least partially mitigated by how low-leverage/infrequent the assignments are, right? Of course, it's mitigated, and it's worthwhile to investigate how much (perhaps a lot, perhaps competely), but it's never even acknowledged. The "astounded" stuff is just so over the top. There is nothing remotely unprecedented about the Mets choice. The Yankees essentially made the same decision with Joba Chamberlain.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 17 2010 10:57 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Chamberlain had two years on him, had (and still has) a more polished repertoire, and pretty much dominated through three levels of the minors during the one year he spent there. When he was brought up to fill a roster hole, he excelled... to a t-shirt-moving, fan-favorite-type extent. He forced them to keep him up. Above high-A, all Mejia did was make 10 shaky starts (with the last couple somewhat less shaky), with the only plus in the results being a lot of Ks-- the command was all over the place (4.7 BB/9, 4 HBP). And he's posted an ERA in the mid-3s (with his FIP and xFIP numbers-- both 4.92-- hinting that THAT's due for a correction), with a 1-to-1 strikeout ratio since he's been up here... in very low-leverage spots. He hasn't forced them to do anything.

smg58 Jun 17 2010 10:57 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I don't see how this affects his value. Even if the Mets were to trade him -- which I doubt -- nobody who acquires him will have anything to gain by putting him in their major league rotation this year. And there's no reason at all to think his long-term value as a starter, for the Mets or anybody else, is hurt by him being in the pen this year. As far as him helping the Mets as a starter this year, I never saw that as likely. And there's always a catch-22: if he were succeeding phenomenally as a reliever, you might say he could have been an effective starter. As it stands he's performing adequately as a major-league reliever, and probably wouldn't do as well in the rotation. It was a judgment call, Manuel decided there was a need for him in the pen, and here he is. I didn't agree with it, but I think jerking him around over the course of the season is more likely to have a long-term bad effect than keeping him where he is.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 17 2010 11:09 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

smg58 wrote: I don't see how this affects his value. Ever sell a used car? Ever sell a used car without washing it? Leaving aside the arguments for sending him down, development-wise... A half-year of middling performance-- anyone looking beyond the ERA to any other pitching stat can see exactly HOW middling-- at the major-league level doesn't boost the asking price for him nearly as much as a half-year of starting dominance at Binghamton or Buffalo would have (even if neither is ultimately very meaningful as a predictor of future performance).

Edgy DC Jun 17 2010 11:16 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

This isn't about his value. It's about his development. I repeat that there is nothing remotely unprecedented going on. I know Chamberlain was different in many ways. The Yankees still made the same choice. I never said nor implied that Mejia has forced anything. And if Chamberlain's continued presence in the Yankee bullpen was forced because the Yankees had to give in to fan demand, shame on them, not the Mets.

Centerfield Jun 17 2010 11:19 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

It had nothing to do with fan demand. He forced their hand by being awesome out of the pen. By sending Chamberlain down, the major league team would have been weaker. Here, Mejia does not make the major league team any better. There would be little lost to the big league club by sending him down to the minors.

Edgy DC Jun 17 2010 11:33 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Well, I read the post as it having something to do with it.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 17 2010 11:43 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: Well, I read the post as it having something to do with it. What CF said. I meant that he'd forced the MFYs' hand by being a supervaluable asset during the 2007 pennant race-- their bridge to Rivera, when middle relief had been a seasonlong issue. He was great-- dominant, in fact-- and filled a particular, pressing need on an otherwise rock-solid team. Mejia's doing neither right now.

Edgy DC Jun 17 2010 11:54 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I don't get it. You actually wrote the bit about being compelled in part because of the "tee-shirt selling, fan favorite extent." This happens to me a lot. I respond to what is written and then it's discounted as if it never happened. I realize this isn't the strenth of your argument, but neither is it the strength of mine, and the bait-and-switch wastes time and makes me feel stupid. Again, I would prefer he go down, too, but there is an argument for keeping him up. Without thinking, I came name a half dozen guys who came up as releivers, increased their workloads, and became effective starters. They will all be different in some way from Mejia. Most in some meaningful way. All I'm saying is it would help the arguments if they at least acknowledged some value to the big league experience he's getting.

metirish Jun 17 2010 12:02 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

That outing he had against the Yankees , was that his last time out with a game on the line type outing? I would like he was down in the minors too but having pitched up here has had to have helped him , Manuel seems to have settled on his horses out of the pen , until one falters I guess Meija's usage won't change.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 17 2010 12:06 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

"Tee shirt selling" was meant to underscore exactly how damn dominant he was-- he became a phenomenon in a month out of middle relief. Rereading it, it's startling how poor a way it was to express that point. Apologies.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 17 2010 12:12 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

I think I said pretty much all I want to say on this pages ago (I just can't bring myself to get passionate over "value" or arbitation clocks, I tend to agree with Tony Bernanzard's "talented guys will be what they will be" philosophy), but I think it's never been an issue of how dramatically he'd help but rather, is he good enough to do the job he's been asked to do. I mean, were Mejia really getting whacked around out there they would shirley pull the plug. As it is he's not necessarily helping all that much but the results haven't crossed into the range that would unacceptable for almost any 10th or 11th guy in the pen.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 17 2010 12:14 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Who exits the staff if Maine gets activated, as expected, in the next week or so? Assuming no injuries in the interim, I'm guessing it will be Igarashi, Valdes, or Mejia.

OlerudOwned Jun 17 2010 01:51 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

If we can acquire someone like (Athens, GA native!) Jake Westbrook for a fair price, I'd like to see Maine in the bullpen and Mejia in the minors. He's always had durability issues, and I'm not sold on Takahashi as a starter, but having the two of them plus Felicano as a bridge to the 9th would be much more reassuring to me than what's being utilized now.

Edgy DC Jun 17 2010 01:54 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

And you're sold on Westbrook?

OlerudOwned Jun 19 2010 10:07 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Woof, that looks bad now. Which I'm happy about, honestly. I didn't give myself enough time when I originally burped that post up to elaborate that I meant that as an option moving forward, rather than a "bring me Westbrook NOW!!" sort of deal. I didn't have faith that Tak had the ability to still be effective going through a lineup a second on third time, just like I don't have faith that Maine or Perez could return to something approximate to their 2007 forms. Any of those options is naturally preferable than having to bring in a guy from outside the organization, and I will gladly have Takahashi continue to make me (and hitters) look bad.

Valadius Jun 20 2010 04:39 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Mejia sent to AA to be a starter. It's about time.

Edgy DC Jun 20 2010 06:10 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Why? Has irreperable damage been done to him? Has he hurt the team?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 20 2010 06:55 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

No, and no. But I do think it's a good move.

Fman99 Jun 20 2010 07:43 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Mejia down, Parnell up to bolster the pen. Good call.

Edgy DC Jun 20 2010 07:49 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

It's almost perfect, in a best-of-both-worlds sense. Parnell expected to return. Let's hope he comes back hungry.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 20 2010 09:51 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Mejia's service, such as it was, did serve one purpose: inverted innings cap. He should be able to start the rest of the year, to nobody's detriment.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 20 2010 10:05 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

That and the fact that he was capable of a 3.25 ERA against major league competition at age 20. I know it wasn't the prettiest 3.25 but if you consider it's only a start (or a beginning)...

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 20 2010 10:26 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

That and the fact that he was capable of a 3.25 ERA against major league competition at age 20. I know it wasn't the prettiest 3.25 but if you consider it's only a start (or a beginning)... He wasn't up here for development purposes. He was here expressly to help the pen... and, given that he was used in the lowest-leverage sitches on average of ANYONE in the pen (Acosta included) and that he put up a hugely luck-dependent 3ish ERA (1:1 K/BB ratio and 12% BB rate) in those situations, he probably did about as well as Acosta or any other AAA arm used half-intelligently might have. IOW: a net wash. (BaseballReference has his WAR on the year at 0.3; Fangraphs has it pegged at -0.2.) I need no convincing of the kid's potential. I'm saying that plopping the kid-- whose big hole is that his off-speed stuff is underdeveloped-- in low-leverage relief situations where he didn't get to work on his stuff at all isn't the best use of him as a resource. Really, though, I'm just glad I get to put this spicy little number out of mothballs and into my hunting-gear-rotation again.

Edgy DC Jun 21 2010 04:08 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: He wasn't up here for development purposes. He was here expressly to help the pen... I don't think this is true. Nor do I think this has to be one or the other.

The Second Spitter Jun 21 2010 04:12 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Not sure if this was mentioned before (in another thread perhaps) but does anybody think the Mets were influenced by how the MFY brought up Jabba?

Frayed Knot Jun 21 2010 07:05 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

The Second Spitter wrote: Not sure if this was mentioned before (in another thread perhaps) but does anybody think the Mets were influenced by how the MFY brought up Jabba? I hope not. The comparison gets brought up in the NYC media every once in a while but the stage each pitcher was at and the road he took to get there were so different that the two situations shouldn't be treated as analogous at all.

metirish Jun 21 2010 07:20 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

I do kinda like how Jerry put it , his development had leveled off here and going down is the next step in that"......something along those lines anyway.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 21 2010 08:45 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Edgy DC wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: He wasn't up here for development purposes. He was here expressly to help the pen... I don't think this is true. Nor do I think this has to be one or the other. Even Ivory's only 99.44% pure, granted. But do I really have to excavate the ST articles for proof again? Virtually all of the quotes out of MetsCentrum rom February and March indicated that he was up because of the fastball, and because Manuel thought he would be a prime contender for the "8th-inning guy" thing. There's been some "this isn't bad for him" type rationalization in postgame pressers and Omar interviews... but that's been ALL after-the-fact, and in response to pointed, specific questions. None of this was stated publicly (or even anonymously leaked and reported) at the time the decision was made, IIRC.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 21 2010 09:00 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

What would you expect them to say? Hey, National League, when we bring this guy in, please understand we're only experimenting. I think it was pretty obvious they wanted to see how he would do and give him a taste of what he was up against. Otherwise, why demote him when he's done relatively better than Valdes or Igarashi? You don't have to be happy about it, but having a good fastball and being "in the 8th inning mix" were true statements, if not the only possible answers to the question of his being here.

G-Fafif Jun 21 2010 09:09 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

The presence of a pitcher I had come to think of as "My Mejia" had done wonders for reviving the humming of B.W. Stevenson's greatest hit around here. Looking forward to the return of the kid when he comes a long, long way.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 21 2010 09:23 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

BW had some pipes.

Edgy DC Jun 21 2010 09:27 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

He wasn't up here for development purposes. He was here expressly to help the pen... I don't think this is true. Nor do I think this has to be one or the other. Even Ivory's only 99.44% pure, granted. But do I really have to excavate the ST articles for proof again? Virtually all of the quotes out of MetsCentrum rom February and March indicated that he was up because of the fastball, and because Manuel thought he would be a prime contender for the "8th-inning guy" thing. There's been some "this isn't bad for him" type rationalization in postgame pressers and Omar interviews... but that's been ALL after-the-fact, and in response to pointed, specific questions. None of this was stated publicly (or even anonymously leaked and reported) at the time the decision was made, IIRC. Sheesh, they also said the plan was return him to starting for his benefit. Which they did. They aslo said weeks ago the plan was to begin that plan this season, which they did. Meanwhile, they spare him a full season's starter's workload and deliver to him the knowledge that he has the ability to get major league hitters out. Which he did. Fucking Added Bonus: His final appearance was one of his best, in a tense rivalry, before a packed house, in a huge showcase, against an excellent offense. What a great positive to pull him out on.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 21 2010 09:34 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Finally, I'd like to invite Keith Law to bite my BW (big white) ass. Between his knowitallism on the Mejia thing and his willfully ignorant remarks on the Cory Vaughn draft ("why scout him and watch him strike out?!? LOL!), he's fast becoming ... the Joe Buck of the Seamhead Media? Fuck him.

Ceetar Jun 21 2010 10:06 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Fucking Added Bonus: His final appearance was one of his best, in a tense rivlary, before a packed house, in a huge showcase, against an excellent offense. What a great positive to pull him out on. Can't argue with this. His "Mental" development is that much greater going down after yesterday's game, than it would've been had they done it after, say one of the walk-off homers he gave up.

Zvon Jun 21 2010 05:01 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

I think sending him down was a great thing. Stretch him out. Let him get his work in. Might need him late in the season for spots. This kid could be a big chunk of our future success if the ball bounces that way.

Edgy DC Jun 29 2010 09:37 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

New York magazine seems to go with the tiresome but apparently evergreen "It's the Mets, so of course it's their fault and of course it's catastrophic" angle. Uglier, though, might be the injury to Jenrry Mejia, the team's top pitching prospect, the one they've been dicking around with all season. As it happens, after the Mets sent him back to Binghamton to work on being a starter — which is what he'd been the whole time until this odd bullpen-in-the-majors experiment — he complains of shoulder trouble and is now sitting out indefinitely with a "posterior cuff strain." The Mets, predictably, say their jerking around had nothing to do with his injury. Whatever did cause it, it's a problem: Not only was Mejia a top prospect, he was a top trading chip for Cliff Lee, a guy everyone wants and a guy the Mariners aren't exactly going to jump to trade for a confused pitcher with a bum wing. To get Lee, the Mets will have to come up with something/someone else. What that could be ... well, your guess is as good as ours, and the Mets'.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 29 2010 09:57 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

New York magazine seems to go with the tiresome but apparently evergreen "It's the Mets, so of course it's their fault and of course it's catastrophic" angle. Uglier, though, might be the injury to Jenrry Mejia, the team's top pitching prospect, the one they've been dicking around with all season. As it happens, after the Mets sent him back to Binghamton to work on being a starter — which is what he'd been the whole time until this odd bullpen-in-the-majors experiment — he complains of shoulder trouble and is now sitting out indefinitely with a "posterior cuff strain." The Mets, predictably, say their jerking around had nothing to do with his injury. Whatever did cause it, it's a problem: Not only was Mejia a top prospect, he was a top trading chip for Cliff Lee, a guy everyone wants and a guy the Mariners aren't exactly going to jump to trade for a confused pitcher with a bum wing. To get Lee, the Mets will have to come up with something/someone else. What that could be ... well, your guess is as good as ours, and the Mets'. At this point, even I'm tired of this angle. But speaking as a naif to the intricacies of "stretching out" bullpen arms, I can't help but think the throwing schedule they had him on seemed kinda odd: something like 45 pitches his first time out, followed by 3-4 consecutive starts of 60 pitches, each on three days' rest.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 29 2010 10:00 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

It'd be cool if the whole thing is a fake designed to trick other teams into trading for inferior Met youngsters at the deadline.

Edgy DC Jun 29 2010 10:01 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

My data says he only got two appearances in. http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb ... pid=516769

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 29 2010 10:25 AM Re: The Mets and Meija

Yeah... that was the supposed plan going forward. (Not faulting it for the injury; just sayin'.)

batmagadanleadoff Jun 29 2010 03:58 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

All of a sudden, I find myself effin sick of all of the Mejia talk. Ninety eight percent of all pitchers hyped as much as Mejia don't amount to a hill of beans anyway, either because they don't develop the goods or because they sustain a career impacting injury early in their careers. And those injuries aren't necessarily the fault of their employer; baseball is a risky business and pitching is a dangerous undertaking. Today, my feeling is that if the Mariners mainly want Mejia for Lee, let's make the deal. It's not as if Mejia struck out 300 batters in less than 200 innings or something. Floyd Youmans was gonna win multiple Cy Youngs. Dave West was a perennial all-star. Juan Berenguer threw harder than Ryan. And Generation K was Koufax and Drysdale plus one more.

Gwreck Jun 29 2010 09:36 PM Re: The Mets and Meija

Ding. Winner. Trade him for Cliff Lee NOW!!!!