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Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

metsguyinmichigan Mar 16 2010 01:11 PM

Tim Marchman was so close to trying to think something positive about the Mets, but then goes and blows it, and throws a cheap shot in there for good measure. He writes: By this reckoning, the top five quartets in baseball are as follows: 1. Yankees (CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira, Alex Rodriguez, Curtis Granderson) 2. Phillies (Chase Utley, Roy Halladay, Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins) 3. Mets (David Wright, Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran, Jason Bay) 4. Red Sox (Dustin Pedroia, Victor Martinez, Jon Lester, Josh Beckett) 5. Cardinals (Albert Pujols, Matt Holliday, Adam Wainwright, Yadier Molina) As noted, there's nothing too surprising here. The most significant placing may be the Mets -- that they do so well here despite seeming like poor bets to finish much above .500 really tells you a lot about how badly that team has been mismanaged. The sixth-best core grouping is the Rays', which includes Evan Longoria, B.J. Upton, James Shields and Carl Crawford -- further proof that there's a reason why people are always going on about what a brutally tough division the American League East is. I want to praise him for inserting Granderson instead of Jeter, because you know Verducci fired off a nasty e-mail attacking him for the omission. But look at his Mets list: Wright, Reyes, Beltran and ... Bay? Hey, Timmy. We got this pitcher named Santana. Pretty good, I hear.

A Boy Named Seo Mar 16 2010 01:16 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

Where can a dude find that article in its entirety? Who's he even write for?

metirish Mar 16 2010 01:18 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

Why the top five quartets ? , it's just foolishness . A teams bench could well be just as important over the season.

metsguyinmichigan Mar 16 2010 01:19 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

[quote="A Boy Named Seo"]Where can a dude find that article in its entirety? Who's he even write for?

[url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tim_marchman/03/15/core.fours/index.html?eref=sircrc

Apologies. He writes for SI.com.

Edgy DC Mar 16 2010 01:34 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

The real question is, what's special about four?

A Boy Named Seo Mar 16 2010 01:35 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

[quote="metsguyinmichigan"][quote="A Boy Named Seo"]Where can a dude find that article in its entirety? Who's he even write for?

[url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tim_marchman/03/15/core.fours/index.html?eref=sircrc

Apologies. He writes for SI.com.

Yeah, what Edgy said. With the CHONE projections and whatever, it seems there was a method behind this thing, and so a reason Johan wasn't picked. But why he picked 4 guys to begin with, who the eff knows.

metirish Mar 16 2010 01:35 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

[quote="Edgy DC":d69t4084]The real question is, what's special about four?[/quote:d69t4084] That's what my post meant to say.

Ashie62 Mar 16 2010 01:49 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

Manny Ramirez, Matt Kemp, Andre Either & Clayton Kershaw ain't bad Having said that The whole concept of the best four is irrelevant but on the other hand we did read it

Ceetar Mar 16 2010 02:12 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

I think he leaves off Santana because that'd make the Mets arguably #1 or 2.

batmagadanleadoff Mar 16 2010 02:51 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

I don't agree with the criticism directed towards Marchman on this thread. If it's supposed to be senseless to write a column that tries to determine which MLB team has the best "core four players", then by that same logic, it would be equally senseless to theorize as to which team or teams has the best trio of players, or the best ace pitcher-catcher combo, or the singular best player.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 16 2010 02:55 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

I sort of agree. He's using the same rules for all teams (top 4 guys by "chone"). I suppose there's plenty of room to debate whether that is a good measuring stick and to judge by his tone, perhaps even he thinks it's not a good one, but it's not like he's being singularly unfair.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 16 2010 04:38 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

I understand being edgy* about the press-piling-on at this point, but would you guys who are getting upset about this argue that: A) The team's compilation of supporting talent around a superlative core has been good? B) The team's management-- especially communications-wise and chain-of-command-wise-- has been pretty decent at fomenting and executing organization-wide plans and, y'know, running a baseball operation? *Hee.

Frayed Knot Mar 16 2010 04:40 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

[Francesa]"It's all about the cawr"[/Francesa]

Edgy DC Mar 16 2010 07:33 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]I understand being edgy* about the press-piling-on at this point, but would you guys who are getting upset about this argue that: A) The team's compilation of supporting talent around a superlative core has been good? B) The team's management-- especially communications-wise and chain-of-command-wise-- has been pretty decent at fomenting and executing organization-wide plans and, y'know, running a baseball operation? *Hee.

Sometimes.

And, of course, putting that core in place is no small feat.

TheOldMole Mar 16 2010 09:04 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

what are chone projections?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 16 2010 09:47 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

Proprietary seasonal projections by Sean Smith. http://www.baseballprojection.com/

Ashie62 Mar 16 2010 10:53 PM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

I am reading correctly.. He's projecting Johan Santana to go 11-9 in 2010

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 17 2010 06:18 AM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

Yep. CHONE tends toward the conservative re: counting stats (Halladay, who's been more durable, and is pitching for a better team, is predicted for 16 wins... as is Sabathia). It also takes durability into account, and has him going for 28 starts-- his three-year-average from 2007-2009-- this season.

Edgy DC Mar 17 2010 07:36 AM Re: Hey, Tim. You forgot someone....

Three year averages are something of a not-fully-thought out way to measure durability, though, don't you think? Santana's surgery was elective, and he likely would have gutted it out until the end of the season had the Mets contended, and likely would have gotten a late start this spring and maybe missed a start or two at the top of this season rather than his last nine starts of last season. Other things to consider: age, girth, innings per start, whether the time missed in previous seasons is due to chronic arm problems or --- I don't know --- conjunctivitis or hyperthyroidism.