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Sack One

Edgy DC Apr 13 2010 11:41 AM Aplitty

What the available firstbasemen are up to. Player Team Age PA AVG OBP SLG OPS Davis Buff (AAA) 23 22 .375 .545 .938 1.483 Evans Bing (AA) 24 22 .400 .435 .850 1.285 Lutz Bing (AA) 24 20 .333 .524 .600 1.124 Hessman Buff (AAA) 32 18 .267 .389 .667 1.056 Hubbard Bing (AA) 28 18 .353 .389 .647 1.036 Carter Buff (AAA) 27 17 .200 .294 .533 .827 Tatis Mets 35 13 .273 .333 .273 .606 Jacobs Mets 29 16 .133 .188 .333 .521 Cervenak Buff (AAA) 33 19 .211 .211 .211 .421 Catalanotto Mets 36 5 .000 .000 .000 .000 I'm going to bet the Big Guy from Catalonia gets his first Metly start this series. Not to jump to conclusions, but it can make a man blue to see three of the bottom four producers with the big club.

metirish Apr 13 2010 11:46 AM Re: Sack One

Those are some gaudy stats up top. It's encouraging at least.

TransMonk Apr 13 2010 11:53 AM Re: Sack One

6 games. 6 games. 6 games.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 13 2010 11:56 AM Re: Sack One

I don't know if the 20-day thing that I mentioned in another thread is accurate or not. (If Davis stays off the big-league roster for the first 20 days of the season, his free agency gets delayed by a year.) I can see the argument, if that's true, for keeping him in Buffalo until April 25, and I'd just lean more towards Tatis and less towards Jacobs for the next 12 days, then reevaluate. My guess is that Jacobs will end up getting released; either when Davis gets promoted or when Murphy gets activated. If Davis comes along before Murphy, then I think Catalanotto is also in jeopardy once Murphy and Davis are both on the 25-man.

Ceetar Apr 13 2010 12:24 PM Re: Sack One

I doubt Davis comes along before Murphy. I feel like if they had any doubt Murphy wouldn't be back in April they'd just have brought Davis up, because it was questionable whether Jacobs made the team anyway. They have confidence in Murphy to put up respectable numbers and contribute to this team (likely more than the rookie Davis would do over a full season), and it'd be hard to justify demoting Davis for him even if Davis wasn't doing that well. Releasing Jacobs for Murphy however, is a nobrainer.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 13 2010 02:20 PM Re: Sack One

The problem is that releasing or demoting Jacobs should have been a no-brainer... even AFTER the Murph injury. Handing the job to him is like handing last year's SS position to Angel Berroa for a month instead of a day. Instead, Omar et. al. will wait, until a tiny-ass sample size that happens to be on the angels' side tells them that Jacobs "can't handle full-time duty." At the risk of sounding like a broken... something, it's the process that bugs me at least as much as the result.

Frayed Knot Apr 13 2010 02:24 PM Re: Sack One

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't know if the 20-day thing that I mentioned in another thread is accurate or not. (If Davis stays off the big-league roster for the first 20 days of the season, his free agency gets delayed by a year.) Yes it is - if not exactly then pretty close. For accounting purposes, the ML season is divided into 182 days (note days, not games), but if a player accrues time on the ML roster (or DL) within 20 days of that he's given credit for a full season (that's to prevent the sort of brief demotion or late call-up specifically designed to screw a player out of one year of FA-gency). But a player who get less than that not get credit for the full year and therefore 6 seasons later will - even if he never gets sent down again - have only 5+ years in the bank and would have to wait another season before he could declare himself a FA. That said, I don't think the team is keeping him down with that day as a call-up target. For all his nice work in the AFL and ST (small samples both) he's a guy with ~750 PAs in pro ball under his belt and less than 250 of those above A ball. Even for a player coming out of college that's not a lot. Plus I would think they'd like to see the questions about him coming into the season - about hitting LHPs and breaking balls better - answered over a more sustained timeframe, particularly now that he's made a bigger name for himself. Ideally, I'd like to see him get a solid half-season at Buffalo before coming up. Now maybe that timeframe gets sped up if either the situation in Queens really falls apart or if he's so tearing things up at AAA that he forces a decision, but we're certainly not in either place yet nor will that change in the next two weeks.

seawolf17 Apr 13 2010 02:34 PM Re: Sack One

Nick Evans is only 24? Feels like Nickheads have been bitching about getting him more ABs for years.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 13 2010 02:41 PM Re: Sack One

seawolf17 wrote: Nick Evans is only 24? Feels like Nickheads have been bitching about getting him more ABs for years. But why? 174 PAs is plenty of time to make a definite judgement about a 22-year-old's ultimate future in MLB.

Edgy DC Apr 13 2010 02:43 PM Re: Sack One

The Mets done some dis-service to Nick Evans now?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 13 2010 03:14 PM Re: Sack One

Ah, nothing. It's just that the org's moves with him have seemed intent on making sure he's stuck with the "career minor leaguer" label. In terms of complementary talents... if Davis is indeed Next Year's Model, then Evans is an interesting, supa-cheap candidate for the lefty-mashing caddy/5th OF role. It would be nice to know for sure that he can fill that credibly... which none of us will unless he logs some time at the high minors/majors.

Ceetar Apr 13 2010 03:30 PM Re: Sack One

I didn't like Nick Evans when he first came up, but he's grown on me. I mean, can he really be worse than Jacobs? He does seem to have some power, is a righty (on a lefty heavy bench or something), is off to a fast start..

smg58 Apr 13 2010 04:32 PM Re: Sack One

Not sure Evans is any worse than Tatis, but now he can't even make it to Buffalo. Unfortunately, I see a waiver claim in his future.

Fman99 Apr 13 2010 04:36 PM Re: Sack One

Maybe I'm a whack job, but I'd never carry MLB floatsam like Tatis and Cora on a roster when I could give a guy like Evans or Carter a shot to show that they could actually play in the majors, even if they have to earn that shot through irregular appearances from the bench. Tatis and Cora, and Jacobs, and these other age 30+ retreads, should get the ol' prom night dumpster babies treatment, is what I'm saying.

Ashie62 Apr 13 2010 04:36 PM Re: Sack One

I like Ike

Edgy DC Apr 13 2010 05:22 PM Re: Sack One

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ah, nothing. It's just that the org's moves with him have seemed intent on making sure he's stuck with the "career minor leaguer" label. Come on. This is completely insupportable.

seawolf17 Apr 13 2010 06:15 PM Re: Sack One

Edgy DC wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ah, nothing. It's just that the org's moves with him have seemed intent on making sure he's stuck with the "career minor leaguer" label. Come on. This is completely insupportable. That was kinda my point with the "Nickheads" comment. He's only 24, and he hasn't exactly lit up the scoreboard everywhere he's played. I agree with fman to a certain extent, though.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 13 2010 06:27 PM Re: Sack One

I'm not saying they're actually out to get him, or anything like that. I'm saying that the possibility might pop into a reasonable observer's head in seeing how they've dealt with Evans (it probably wouldn't be the ultimate conclusion said imaginary observer would come to, but still...). Why give retreads like Tatis or stopgaps like Sullivan starts during the last month of an injury-fraught lost season? Why leave a guy like Evans languishing in the mid-minors for most of the year-- signing guys like Emil F-ing Brown to the major-league roster to fill Evans-shaped holes-- when you've had trouble finding the exact sort of potential cheap production-- lefty-masher/potential platoon 1B/OF-- that someone like him represents? It's more the process that bugs me, and the thinking that's likely to underlie the process, than any real mistreatment of a player. Still, though, I wouldn't rule out that a few people in the Mets FO food chain have decided in their own minds that Evans isn't really a major-league sort of player. It would explain a lot.

seawolf17 Apr 13 2010 06:40 PM Re: Sack One

You almost wonder if they think that, and as such, are trying not to overexpose him so as to include him in a deal for a washed-up middle reliever. But seriously, he's done oogatz anywhere higher than Binghamton.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 13 2010 08:13 PM Re: Sack One

110 PA against major-league lefties, .320 BA/.382 OBP/.490 SLG, 12 XBH. Small sample, yes. But the reason it's so small isn't because he refused to come off the bench.

Nymr83 Apr 13 2010 08:22 PM Re: Sack One

I really want to see Carter because i think he has potential and is probably getting to the point of "now or never." Tatis is fine in his role on the bench and Jacobs would be fine in a similiar role if roster space permitted, but i don't think either is the answer. I don't think Murphy is the answer either, but if Davis is deemed not ready i think he's better than the other guys at least for now so he's worth giving another shot. I'm not big on Evans, but i feel the Mets are wasting ABs at 1B right now, and they'd be better off wasting them on the 24 year old Evans than on Jacobs. I'd go with a Carter (second choice Evans) righty/lefty split with Tatis until Murphy comes back but everything should really depend on Davis...he should be up when the Mets feel he is ready, he shouldn't be rushed on account of these guys sucking and he shouldn't be held back to let these bozos get more chances.

Edgy DC Apr 13 2010 08:55 PM Re: Sack One

One could think that if one were inclined? Is that the way you want to approach this? This seems obvious, but... [list][*]Evans was promoted from AA --- a sign of respect and confidence --- in a pinch, and given 1/3 of a job as the starting leftfielder. [/*:m] [*]He did OK. Didn't embarass himself, but didn't establish himself as a major leaguer. [/*:m] [*]He played through camp the next spring, and was farmed out at the end of camp, presumably as an option to come back if he played well and a big leaguer didn't. [/*:m] [*]He had an absolutely horrendous start to his minor league season in AAA. Actrocious. Heinous. Scandalous. Where's my thesaurus? [/*:m] [*]He was sent down to AA to find himself. [/*:m] [*]He produced and was returned to AAA. [/*:m] [*]He never fully found his form again there, finishing at .211 / .280 / .414 // .660. [/*:m] [*]The Mets nonetheless found 30 games and 69 plate appearance for him in the major leagues, still finding enough faith in him to give him that playing time over guys who didn't embarass themselves in the AAA last season --- guys like Jesus Feliciano or Chip Ambres (who are being treated as carer minor leaguers).[/*:m][/list:u] The situation he is in now is the situation he has played himself into. The Mets have shown more faith in him being a big leaguer than his productivity has suggested he deserves.

Nymr83 Apr 13 2010 10:19 PM Re: Sack One

thats fair to Evans, but what about Carter? it just bothers me that everyday ABs are being wasted on jacobs, who i think might be the least potential upside

Edgy DC Apr 13 2010 10:22 PM Re: Sack One

I am so behind Carter that it's creepy.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 14 2010 12:13 AM Re: Sack One

I fell for him like a child Oh, but the fire went wild

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 14 2010 10:49 AM Re: Sack One

A visit from an old friend. Franco II? Brian Costa wrote: DENVER -- Carlos Delgado was back in the Mets’ clubhouse Tuesday, dressed in street clothes instead of a uniform, hobbling around on crutches instead of playing baseball. He’s hoping that will change later this year, but for now, Delgado is still recovering from his second hip surgery. The 37-year-old free agent and former Mets first baseman has spent the last eight weeks in Vail, Colo., where he underwent surgery to reconstruct the labrum in his right hip. He visited his former teammates before their series opener against the Rockies at Coors Field, chatting at length with Alex Cora and Johan Santana, among others. “Obviously, the plan is to end up playing somewhere, sometime,” Delgado said. “But the most important thing is just I want to bounce back and recuperate and see what happens. I don’t want to start thinking too far down the road until I see how the rehab is going and all that.” Delgado hasn’t played in a major-league game since May 10, 2009. He missed the rest of last season after undergoing surgery to repair a tear in the labrum and remove a bone spur. The Mets monitored his progress during winter ball in Puerto Rico. But they were not convinced he was mobile enough to play the field and instead opted to stick with Daniel Murphy at first. “We had some conversations and they sent some people down, but I didn’t get an offer,” Delgado said. “Sometimes it takes two to tango.” It soon became clear that Delgado never fully recovered from his hip injury last year. He said his hip bothered him during winter ball, which prompted him to have the second surgery in mid-February. “I was functional and I could play, but it was kind of like, it was a drag,” Delgado said. When asked about the chances of him playing in 2011 if he misses all of this season, Delgado said, “I don’t want to think that far in advance. I want to start my rehab. I’ve been on crutches for eight weeks, so let’s start by walking first, then do a little jogging and let’s see where we are. The plan is to go and play, but you’ve just got to make sure that your body allows it.”

metirish Apr 14 2010 10:55 AM Re: Sack One

I'm sure if he can get healthy and in playing shape he will help a contending team for the last few months.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 14 2010 10:57 AM Re: Sack One

He's never coming back here. Hey, it would have been nice to have a better defensive first baseman out there last night.

Ceetar Apr 14 2010 11:48 AM Re: Sack One

You shouldn't give Evans a shot based on what he's done in the past, but what you think he'll do in the future. If you think he has upside, which is what many of us that think it couldn't be worse than Jacobs/Tatis think. He played great in spring '09, didn't make the team, and admittedly beat himself up over it, but he did get himself together and start playing well again. He got called up, and despite the 60whatever AB he got, was very sparshly used, despite pretty much knowing guys like Reed and Sullivan would not make the team in 2010 anyway, so what could it hurt to play a young kid. Maybe you learn something else. This spring he got hampered by the forearm or whatever it was, or I do believe he would've had a chance to play onto the team after Murphy got hurt. However, it's not out of sight/out of mind. It's not like he's likely to be the savior, and it really seems like Jerry is making too many of the calls, and since he doesn't hear about or see Evans due to his busy schedule of (supposedly) managing baseball games, he's probably not on the radar.

Edgy DC Apr 14 2010 11:57 AM Re: Sack One

If Mike Jacobs' 2009 is meaningful, so is Nick Evans'. We're grabbing a logical straws here. He played himself into his situation. If he put up that .211 season last year in the Major Leagues --- which would have been a greater accomplishment --- would you be arguing on his behalf?

Ceetar Apr 14 2010 12:11 PM Re: Sack One

Edgy DC wrote: If Mike Jacobs' 2009 is meaningful, so is Nick Evans'. We're grabbing a logical straws here. He played himself into his situation. If he put up that .211 season last year in the Major Leagues --- which would have been a greater accomplishment --- would you be arguing on his behalf? but he didn't. Mike Jacobs' 2009 is meaningful, but we also have years before that to go on. Major league years. Are you really telling me you think Jacobs/Tatis is really better than Evans? It's nitpicking. It's just a minor thing that I'd change, in part because Jacobs is a black hole of suck and Tatis, even if he's been decent off the bench for the Mets, isn't very good and even little change helps in my opinion. Maybe it's mostly a cosmetic change, but I'd rather try and fail with Evans for a week than Tatis/Jacobs. Just a personal preference. Jerry needs all the help we can get, so I'm gonna put that "try Evans" attitude out into the universe. maybe he'll hear it. :-P

Edgy DC Apr 14 2010 12:20 PM Re: Sack One

Ceetar wrote: If Mike Jacobs' 2009 is meaningful, so is Nick Evans'. We're grabbing a logical straws here. He played himself into his situation. If he put up that .211 season last year in the Major Leagues --- which would have been a greater accomplishment --- would you be arguing on his behalf? but he didn't. No, he did it in the mnors, which is embarassigly damning and argues in no way for a major league job. Ceetar wrote: Are you really telling me you think Jacobs/Tatis is really better than Evans? No, I don't know if this true. But there's no evidence to support it beyond this last week.

metirish Apr 14 2010 12:23 PM Re: Sack One

If Nick Evans knew that two people were arguing over him he'd be chuffed I'm sure.

Ceetar Apr 14 2010 12:24 PM Re: Sack One

He's putting the bat on ball, regardless of where, right now. Tatis and Jacobs are creating stiff breezes, right now. Who knows how it would translate, right now, in 2010, to major league production, but why not Evans? why not try a different temporary fix? What about Catalanotto for a game (he's even on the roster?) Shawn Bowman, who's technically a 3B but obviously blocked there? (Guess not on that one.) I'm not even so much arguing for Nick Evans as i'm arguing for anything but Tatis/Jacobs.

Edgy DC Apr 14 2010 12:26 PM Re: Sack One

Yeah, I can tell. But that's dangerous thinking, particularly on a week's evidence, and there are better options in house.

Ceetar Apr 14 2010 12:30 PM Re: Sack One

Edgy DC wrote: Yeah, I can tell. But that's dangerous thinking, particularly on a week's evidence, and there are better options in house. At least I'm not one clamoring for a potentially unready Ike Davis and proclaiming him the savior. I would've had Evans on the roster over Jacobs anyway, (well, no, he was injured, but I'd have chosen Carter). Murphy is still possibly back in a week, but if he's not, and Jacobs/Tatis still really really suck..well, I definitely think you do something.

Edgy DC Apr 14 2010 12:32 PM Re: Sack One

Well, I'm certainly with you in Carter Country. Erie, by the way, wanted nothing to do with Evans yesterday, and he went 0-1 with three walks, and that impressive OPS went up. I imagine he'll be replacing Cevernak or maybe Pridie on the Buffalo roster soon.

Ceetar Apr 14 2010 12:39 PM Re: Sack One

Edgy DC wrote: Well, I'm certainly with you in Carter Country. Erie, by the way, wanted nothing to do with Evans yesterday, and he went 0-1 with three walks, and that impressive OPS went up. I imagine he'll be replacing Cevernak or maybe Pridie on the Buffalo roster soon. I'd have to check, but I thought Evans was playing first? (Evans really has no future with this team, even if he did well, as he's at least second on the "prospect depth chart" at every position, and probably more like 5th on the chart) Figured he was in AA cause Davis is munching the wings at Duffs, err Buffalo, and Nick wouldn't get no AB.

Edgy DC Apr 14 2010 12:44 PM Re: Sack One

He's playing some first right now, but even more left, while an old dude named Marshall Hubbard (see bloody numbers above) bounces between DH and first.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 14 2010 12:52 PM Re: Sack One

It's my understanding that Pridie's been playing CF in Buffalo, so if Evans is going to displace a Buff, it probably wouldn;t be Pridie. If/when Davis hits his way out of AAA, there will be lots of room to move around again. Who knows for sure, but I think maybe Evans lost some trust in the org with his weird start last year.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 14 2010 12:53 PM Re: Sack One

Even if you buy that Evans has a very limited ceiling-- and yeah, if you push me, I'm probably of this mindset; statistical evidence doesn't seem to be making too convincing a case to the contrary-- his floor appears to be that of a cheap-ass lefty killer. Looking at his performance in both in the minors and majors, his splits seem to indicate that he's got Matt Diaz-ishness to him, at least... my question is why the Mets weren't experimenting more with Evans-- and players like him-- instead of playing the retreads late last year.

Edgy DC Apr 14 2010 12:59 PM Re: Sack One

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: It's my understanding that Pridie's been playing CF in Buffalo, so if Evans is going to displace a Buff, it probably wouldn;t be Pridie. Yeah, well it's my understanding that he's a douchebag. No, I was thinking if Pridie doesn't catch on, Fartinez or Feliciano become the centerfielder. John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Who knows for sure, but I think maybe Evans lost some trust in the org with his weird start last year. Hardly a crazy notion. I think we all need to remember that Pagan is due to get hurt any moment now and that'll shuffle all the chairs around again.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 14 2010 06:23 PM Re: Sack One

Shawn Bowman is not an option for anything anymore: TORONTO -- The Blue Jays added some infield depth on Wednesday, claiming third baseman Shawn Bowman off waivers from the Mets. After being acquired, Bowman was optioned to high-Class A Dunedin. Bowman, 25, appeared in 12 Spring Training games this season for New York before being designated for assignment on April 5. That eventually opened the door for Toronto to step in and claim Bowman, who is a native of New Westminster, British Columbia. Originally selected by the Mets in the 12th round of the 2002 First-Year Player Draft, Bowman spent last season with Double-A Binghamton. Over 91 games, he hit .294 with nine home runs, 24 doubles and 44 RBIs. Bowman was a member of Team Canada during the '09 World Baseball Classic, but he did not appear in a game. With the additions of Bowman and Cuban shortstop Adeiny Hechavarria, who officially signed a four-year contract with the Blue Jays on Tuesday, Toronto's 40-man roster is at capacity.

metirish Apr 14 2010 08:46 PM Re: Sack One

I'm supposed to be mad about that right? Hold on while I gets angry.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 14 2010 08:58 PM Re: Sack One

That play tonite won't win Jacobs any moe rope. Jerry has the right idea of what his role ought to be, the question is how long the team can stand hom in any other capacity.

metirish Apr 14 2010 09:04 PM Re: Sack One

GMJ will be first to go. Manuel all but dismissed him on the Wfan today admitting it was a mistake going with him.

Rockin' Doc Apr 14 2010 09:41 PM Re: Sack One

Trying to belatedly save his roster spot, GMJ singles to lead off the 9th. Top of the order coming up. Let's Go Mets!!!

themetfairy Apr 14 2010 09:42 PM Re: Sack One Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 14 2010 09:43 PM

Oops - wrong thread....

MFS62 Apr 14 2010 09:42 PM Re: Sack One Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 14 2010 09:44 PM

I'll get angry for you, Irish. After watching him for years, I used to think that Clete Boyer was the yardstick against which all third baseman were measured defensively. The statistics at the time were limited to fielding percentage. Clete's career Favg was (IIRC) .965. The last two years, Bowman's was .970!!! And the guy at Inside Pitch (the subscription service that covers the Mets minor leaguers) confirms that Bowman is that good, if not better, with the glove. His hitting had improved, and he had shown power potential. I realize that Wright is the third baseman, but thought that at least Bowman could be decent trade material, and I'm disappointed that he had to be given a release rather than bringing something back in return. Later

Frayed Knot Apr 14 2010 10:06 PM Re: Sack One

And what is it you think that 26 y/o career minor league corner IFers with back surgery in his history are fetching in exchanges these days? ... y'know, besides other older career minor leaguers with health issues.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 14 2010 10:25 PM Re: Sack One

Is it fair of us to boo Jacobs for simply doing what's in his nature?

Ashie62 Apr 15 2010 08:46 AM Re: Sack One

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Is it fair of us to boo Jacobs for simply doing what's in his nature? Probably not, but losing has a way of making it so.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 15 2010 09:15 AM Re: Sack One

Presumably, they haven't asked the guy to make substantive changes; he's walking at about the same rate as he ever has, swinging the same way he ever has, and playing defense with the same aplomb that he's ever had. And if they have, well, they've implicitly undercut those requests by taking him onto the team as is, and giving him a platoon starting slot. If JerryRig slotted a turd in at first (batting fifth, of course, to break up the non-turd hitters), what good would yelling at the little pile of shit-- "You stink! I wish someone would get rid of you!"-- do?

MFS62 Apr 15 2010 06:50 PM Re: Sack One

And what is it you think that 26 y/o career minor league corner IFers with back surgery in his history are fetching in exchanges these days? ... y'know, besides other older career minor leaguers with health issues. Well, everyone is worth at least $100 dollars. http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullp ... _Pregenzer Later

Edgy DC Apr 16 2010 06:35 AM Re: Sack One

Carter went 4-4 yesterday.

Edgy DC Apr 16 2010 06:53 AM Re: Sack One

And as Carter moves up, so does journeyman Mike Hessman and mysteryman Marshall Hubbard. Player Team Age PA AVG OBP SLG OPS Hessman Buff (AAA) 32 28 .346 .400 .846 1.246 Evans Bing (AA) 24 38 .364 .436 .758 1.193 Davis Buff (AAA) 23 34 .346 .500 .692 1.192 Carter Buff (AAA) 27 28 .360 .429 .760 1.189 Hubbard Bing (AA) 28 31 .414 .452 .724 1.176 Lutz Bing (AA) 24 33 .346 .500 .615 1.115 Jacobs Mets 29 21 .167 .286 .389 .675 Tatis Mets 35 21 .222 .300 .278 .578 Cervenak Buff (AAA) 33 28 .179 .179 .179 .357 Catalanotto Mets 36 8 .000 .000 .000 .000

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 16 2010 09:22 AM Re: Sack One

Edgy DC wrote: Carter went 4-4 yesterday. -- Homer away from the cycle, too, no less. -- Re: the chart-- Ike's PAs, I think, bear revisiting. -- More Mike Hessman!

Ceetar Apr 16 2010 09:46 AM Re: Sack One

Hessman's the Hank Aaron/Barry Bonds of the minor leagues isn't he?

smg58 Apr 16 2010 10:01 AM Re: Sack One

I'm going to go way out on a limb and say that the good citizens of Buffalo will not complain about the Bisons' performance this year.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 16 2010 11:08 AM Re: Sack One

I'm guessing Ike's first basing, Carter's outfieldering, and Hessman's got a glove he uses somewhere, too?

Edgy DC Apr 16 2010 01:36 PM Re: Sack One

Hessman plays third. Carter is outfielding but also DHing, with the better outfield being F-Bomb/Pridie/Feliciano going left-to-right.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 18 2010 10:10 PM Re: Sack One

As per the newest outpost of the Empire: as Chris Carter died earlier Sunday when not enough front office personnel clapped that they believed in him*, Ike Davis will be making his debut with the big club sometime this week. *Like TInkerbell, or Heath Bell.

Edgy DC Apr 19 2010 04:59 AM Re: Sack One

"When it's time for him to come up, he just needs to remember to come in and do what he's done his whole career," Wright said, reflecting on the pressure a hyped prospect faces in New York. His whole career being 2009, but not 2008.

bmfc1 Apr 19 2010 06:42 AM Re: Sack One

Carter, he of the many HRs in ST, was told to bunt in the 10th on Sunday. With the Bisons down 1, bottom of the 10th, Ike and Hessman singled but Carter bunted into a force play. Two K's later, the game was over. I would think that you'd want a big hitter to swing the bat--the tying run was already in scoring position--but no. Perhaps Oberkfell wanted to get him ready for Jerryball.

metirish Apr 19 2010 06:54 AM Re: Sack One Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 19 2010 07:19 AM

We are getting nothing from first base, why Davis and not Carter(not that I oppose the move, just curious).

Ashie62 Apr 19 2010 07:15 AM Re: Sack One

Ike Davis. The new great Mets hope. Good like Ike and may you render muffy irrelevant.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 19 2010 07:21 AM Re: Sack One

I do wonder what will happen with Murphy if Davis plays well and stakes a solid claim on first base. As they say, it's the good kind of problem to have.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 19 2010 07:23 AM Re: Sack One

Muffy's career as a ulityman gets an earlier start is all, especially if they make Jacobs the everyday 1Bman at Buffalo, which they might.

Edgy DC Apr 19 2010 07:25 AM Re: Sack One

I'm not convinced Davis is here to stay.

metirish Apr 19 2010 07:25 AM Re: Sack One

Murphy would be on the bench I suppose, he could cover several spots.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 19 2010 07:27 AM Re: Sack One

Edgy DC wrote: I'm not convinced Davis is here to stay. I don't think anyone is. (I know I'm not.) We're just conjecturing what will happen with Murphy if Davis stays.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 19 2010 07:29 AM Re: Sack One

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I'm not convinced Davis is here to stay. I don't think anyone is. (I know I'm not.) We're just conjecturing what will happen with Murphy if Davis stays. I am. I mean, if he's called up at all.

Ceetar Apr 19 2010 07:32 AM Re: Sack One

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I'm not convinced Davis is here to stay. I don't think anyone is. (I know I'm not.) We're just conjecturing what will happen with Murphy if Davis stays. Hopefully it's cut and dry obvious. I'm worried that Davis will (just to use statistics for the sake of comparison) hit like .240 with 10 home runs and Murphy hits .260 with 15. Then you get in the sticky situation where Murphy is clearly better _right now_ , but Davis is playing well enough that nobody wants him to get sent down. I guess it'd help if we had a definitive date on Murphy's return as well. I just don't like the reactionary aspect of the move (that hasn't happened yet). Davis on April 5th, or not till midseason seemed to be the wisest move. is 12 more games really that much more telling?

Edgy DC Apr 19 2010 07:40 AM Re: Sack One

I think Murphy provides a psychological cover. If he's up and not ready to stick, the return of Murphy says, "Well, we knew he wasn't quite ready, but he was just here to fill a gap. He'lll be back. Good job, son." I pick Carter first every time.

bmfc1 Apr 19 2010 07:53 AM Re: Sack One

It looks like no Ike tonight. The Bisons have tweeted their lineup for today's day game: BuffaloBisons #Bisons batting: Pridie CF, Thole C, FMart LF, Davis 1B, Hessman 3B, Carter DH, Cintron 2B, Feliciano RF, Tejada SS. RHP Dickey.

Ceetar Apr 19 2010 07:57 AM Re: Sack One

the +1 year of arbritration or whatever is like tomorrow, so might as well at least wait until then at this point. Do we get a stop-gap Evans/Carter for a day or two, or play short? (Unlikely Manuel would use either guy if called up. Tatis is still on the team)

Ceetar Apr 19 2010 08:07 AM Re: Sack One

btw, I don't read.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 19 2010 08:41 AM Re: Sack One

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I do wonder what will happen with Murphy if Davis plays well and stakes a solid claim on first base. I don't know nothing. But I bet Chris Carter gets asked to dig the hole.

Frayed Knot Apr 19 2010 08:43 AM Re: Sack One

Ceetar wrote: the +1 year of arbritration or whatever is like tomorrow, so might as well at least wait until then at this point. There is no 'arbitration cut-off' date. There is point at which a player called up gets credit for a full season - I think that's 20 days into the season and today should be about day 15). That's something which could affect his FA status six years from now, so if we assume that Davis gets called up now he'd hit FA-gency a year earlier than if he were called up in another week or two (after the 2015 season instead of after 2016). All that, of course, assumes he's up here to stay and never gets sent down again, something which is hardly a given. Arbitration is a different story since it's based on a player's service time as compared to all other 2-3 year players. Usually you have to leave a player down on the farm until the end of May in order to delay his arb-eligible days by a year but there's no way to know for certain since there are too many variables.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 19 2010 08:48 AM Re: Sack One

I think if Davis comes up and does reasonably well, he'll stick. But if after 20 games he's hitting .180, he goes back to Buffalo and Murphy reclaims his job.

MFS62 Apr 19 2010 08:50 AM Re: Sack One

If Ike is as good as we all hope, and the Mets think, he will be, then I don't care how much the Mets will have to pay him. Or when. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 19 2010 08:56 AM Re: Sack One

Standards ain't what they used to be. Assuming he gets called up, if Davis does something memorable his first week, and then hits .250/slugs .430, plays unembarrassing defense, and doesn't expose himself to a bus full of schoolkids, he should stick.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 19 2010 08:59 AM Re: Sack One

MFS62 wrote: If Ike is as good as we all hope, and the Mets think, he will be, then I don't care how much the Mets will have to pay him. Or when. Later Me neither. But I do care about how long he sticks with the Mets.

bmfc1 Apr 19 2010 10:16 AM Re: Sack One

Tweets now say that Ike will be at CF for tonight's game.

Fman99 Apr 19 2010 10:21 AM Re: Sack One

Brad Como from SNY reporting that Ike will be activated prior to tonight's game. I approve, heartily.

MFS62 Apr 19 2010 10:23 AM Re: Sack One

bmfc1 wrote: Tweets now say that Ike will be at CF for tonight's game. (Channeling Johnny Cochran) "If it has been tweeted , it must be fait accomplited". Later

bmfc1 Apr 19 2010 10:31 AM Re: Sack One

Ike has been scratched from the Buffalo lineup today and is en route to Queens. FYI: new Buffalo lineup-- BuffaloBisons #Bisons new order: Pridie CF, Thole C, FMart LF, Hessman 1B, Carter DH, Cervenak 3B, Cintron 2B, Feliciano RF, Tejada SS. RHP Dickey

TransMonk Apr 19 2010 10:36 AM Re: Sack One

Is that 2b Alex Cintron? I had no idea we had him in Buffalo.

metirish Apr 19 2010 10:37 AM Re: Sack One

Mount St. Helen's has erupted and Ike can't take Fred's private jet and must now take the train, will he make it in time is the question.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 19 2010 10:44 AM Re: Sack One

metirish wrote: Mount St. Helen's has erupted and Ike can't take Fred's private jet and must now take the train, will he make it in time is the question. Is his flight really a no-go? And in this train, is there a Practice-Hitting-Lefties car?

metirish Apr 19 2010 10:55 AM Re: Sack One

Buffalo is really run down huh? Ike Davis boards the train bound for NYC Some great pix in here if early Japanese baseball http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthrea ... e-Baseball.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 19 2010 11:15 AM Re: Sack One

bmfc1 wrote: Tweets now say that Ike will be at CF for tonight's game. I first read that to mean he'd be playing center field.

Frayed Knot Apr 19 2010 11:29 AM Re: Sack One

bmfc1 wrote: Tweets now say that Ike will be at CF for tonight's game. Hope they don't give him an obstructed view seat.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 19 2010 01:05 PM Re: Sack One

Do we think he's going to be platooning? By which I mean, does anyone doubt he'll be platooned?

Ceetar Apr 19 2010 01:12 PM Re: Sack One

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Do we think he's going to be platooning? By which I mean, does anyone doubt he'll be platooned? Why wouldn't he be platooned? I mean, Tatis has the experience. no question. Gotta go with experience, Tatis, he's a guy that if we can get him going can really hit one out for us.

metirish Apr 19 2010 01:12 PM Re: Sack One

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Do we think he's going to be platooning? By which I mean, does anyone doubt he'll be platooned? What would be the point of platooning him with Tatis?, Fernado has been just rubbish.

Centerfield Apr 19 2010 01:27 PM Re: Sack One

Benjamin Grimm wrote: bmfc1 wrote: Tweets now say that Ike will be at CF for tonight's game. I first read that to mean he'd be playing center field. I thought he was coming to my place to watch the game.

Frayed Knot Apr 19 2010 01:28 PM Re: Sack One

I wouldn't object too loudly if Davis were sat down against the occasional tough LHP. The biggest questions about him coming off last year was his ability to hang against LHPs and to hit breaking balls. I somehow doubt all of that has been erased on account of a few dozen ABs in ST and early April in Buffalo.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 19 2010 01:31 PM Re: Sack One

Ceetar wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Do we think he's going to be platooning? By which I mean, does anyone doubt he'll be platooned? Why wouldn't he be platooned? I mean, Tatis has the experience. no question. Gotta go with experience, Tatis, he's a guy that if we can get him going can really hit one out for us. What's it called when you sigh and laugh at the same time? "Schuckling?"

Centerfield Apr 19 2010 01:32 PM Re: Sack One

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: the +1 year of arbritration or whatever is like tomorrow, so might as well at least wait until then at this point. There is no 'arbitration cut-off' date. There is point at which a player called up gets credit for a full season - I think that's 20 days into the season and today should be about day 15). That's something which could affect his FA status six years from now, so if we assume that Davis gets called up now he'd hit FA-gency a year earlier than if he were called up in another week or two (after the 2015 season instead of after 2016). All that, of course, assumes he's up here to stay and never gets sent down again, something which is hardly a given. Arbitration is a different story since it's based on a player's service time as compared to all other 2-3 year players. Usually you have to leave a player down on the farm until the end of May in order to delay his arb-eligible days by a year but there's no way to know for certain since there are too many variables. I'm happy to see Ike get the call too, but assuming Ike is good (like we hope he will be) wouldn't it benefit the Mets (and us) to hold him back another 5 days to push his free agency back one year? I mean, when our All-Star 1B is soliciting multi-year offers in 2015, are we going to think "Sure, we will have to pay lots of money to bring him back next season, but at least we had him for those 5 critical games back in April of 2010..."

Ceetar Apr 19 2010 01:36 PM Re: Sack One

Centerfield wrote: I'm happy to see Ike get the call too, but assuming Ike is good (like we hope he will be) wouldn't it benefit the Mets (and us) to hold him back another 5 days to push his free agency back one year? I mean, when our All-Star 1B is soliciting multi-year offers in 2015, are we going to think "Sure, we will have to pay lots of money to bring him back next season, but at least we had him for those 5 critical games back in April of 2010..." That depends, do we make the playoffs by one game, does Ike hit a walkoff tonight? Apparently it's a done deal, but hopefully the Mets just sign him to a long contract after his 2011 MVP to follow up his rookie of the year award and second consecutive world series ring.

Edgy DC Apr 19 2010 01:38 PM Re: Sack One

Even if good, it's altogether possible that he goes down for at least some time when Moify comes back.

Centerfield Apr 19 2010 01:40 PM Re: Sack One

From the IkeGT: attgig wrote: the mets front office is smart with ike! (not so with meija) http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/04/i ... sburg.html Talking to MLBTR's Ben Nicholson-Smith, I learned that teams can now safely promote minor leaguers for their MLB debuts with no chance of the player amassing 172 days of service in 2010. By promoting '08 first-rounder Ike Davis today, the Mets ensured that he will be under team control through 2016 instead of 2015. In contrast, the Braves have Jason Heyward through '15. Well that's that. Mets = Smart. CF = Dumb.

Frayed Knot Apr 19 2010 01:46 PM Re: Sack One

What that means is that players get credit for a full season as long as they're within [u:26ub99d8]TEN[/u:26ub99d8] days of one, not the twenty days we've been assuming here.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 20 2010 11:47 AM Re: Sack One

There's a tidy explanation of the Ike Service-Time issue from Mark Himmelstein over at Amazin' Avenue. Article V--Scheduling A) Length of Season During the term of this agreement, each club shall be scheduled to play 162 games. A championship season will not be scheduled over a period of less than 178 days or more than 183 days. -pp 3 Article XXI--Credited Major League Service A. Definitions Those Player rights expressly set forth in the Basic Agreement for which a Player's eligibility is dependent upon credited Major League service will be determined as follows: (1) One full day of Major League service will be credited for each day a player is on the Major League Club's Active List. A total of 172 days of Major League credited service will constitute one full year of credited service. A player may not receive more than one year, 172 days, in one championship season. Major League service will be computed commencing with the date of the first regularly scheduled championship season game, through and including the date of the last regularly schedule championship season game. This rule shall apply uniformly to all Players and Clubs notwithstanding differences in a particular Club's schedule. -pp 82 B. Optional Assignments If a Player is optionally assigned for a total of less than 20 days in one championship season, the player will be credited with Major League service time over the period of such assignment. -pp. 82 Ike, as Mark points out, wasn't on the 40, and-- as such-- wasn't on "optional assignment;" as a Bison, he was just a straight-up minor-league player. Therefore, he's not accruing time toward the ML service-time target while playing at AAA, and simply needs to stay under 172 days' time to stick around under club control through 2016. There are only 168 days left in the season, so he'll do that. There is, however, a weird little sticking point that I hadn't foreseen with Chris Carter-- he IS on optional assignment right now, and had a previous month of major-league time logged with Boston. Basically, the Mets would have to wait longer this season to promote Carter to delay his service time than they do for young Ike. Of course, the major-league need is kind of dire enough to warrant flushing these concerns. (And, of course, the org would have to remember that Carter is on the roster before worrying about his service-time concerns.)

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2010 11:53 AM Re: Sack One

I would also think the Mets are a lot less concerned about Chris Carter's future free agency than they are Ike Davis'. At this point, anyway.

Ceetar Apr 20 2010 12:08 PM Re: Sack One

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I would also think the Mets are a lot less concerned about Chris Carter's future free agency than they are Ike Davis'. At this point, anyway. Yeah, I would assume no one's hanging around the Mets front office panicking Carter might hit the open market earlier than expected.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 20 2010 12:13 PM Re: Sack One

Picketing? Hell, I would expect that if you asked 10 random Mets FO employees entering or exiting CitiField about Chris Carter, 7 would not know about whom you were talking.

Edgy DC Apr 20 2010 12:24 PM Re: Sack One

Wait. Who mentioned picketing?

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2010 12:28 PM Re: Sack One

Somehow "panicking" turned to "picketing."

Edgy DC Apr 20 2010 12:35 PM Re: Sack One

I don't think it's right that Met executives have been picnicking! Out there with their baskets and thier gingham picnic cloths. Considering all that's going on with this team, I think it's disgraceful!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 20 2010 12:43 PM Re: Sack One

Edgy DC wrote: I don't think it's right that Met executives have been picnicking! Out there with their baskets and thier gingham picnic cloths. Considering all that's going on with this team, I think it's disgraceful! "I wouldn't think they'd have time for dessert, much less to be consulting a cherry manual!" I plead "sleepless dad-ism."

seawolf17 Apr 20 2010 01:59 PM Re: Sack One

They'd think you were talking about the former Vikings WR, who was actually still on Omar's fantasy football team this year. "Well, Cris Carter catches touchdowns, y'know what I'm sayin'?"

metsguyinmichigan Apr 20 2010 02:21 PM Re: Sack One

If Carter is so brutal with the glove that they can't use him in the field, why did they trade for him? Hoping that the NL goes DH suddenly? Hoping to spin him to an AL team in a trade? Seriously, wouldn't it have been better to take a draft pick when losing Wagner that a player you don't think you can bring up for anything than a pinch-hitter or DH for inter-league games?

MFS62 Apr 21 2010 10:16 AM Re: Sack One

metsguyinmichigan wrote: If Carter is so brutal with the glove that they can't use him in the field, why did they trade for him? Hoping that the NL goes DH suddenly? Hoping to spin him to an AL team in a trade? Someone in the front office must have heard a Red Sox announcer say "Carter is a much better fielder than Big Papi".* Later * = if you get the Suzyn Waldmann reference, you listen to too many Yakee sound bites.

Rockin' Doc Apr 21 2010 11:00 AM Re: Sack One

I have a lawn sculpture in the yard that's a better fielder than Big Papi.

soupcan Apr 21 2010 11:05 AM Re: Sack One

BOC nominee!

metirish Apr 21 2010 11:06 AM Re: Sack One

soupcan wrote: BOC nominee! Got there before you. I believe if you tried to nominate it you would be turned down.

MFS62 Apr 22 2010 09:51 AM Re: Sack One

Rockin' Doc wrote: I have a lawn sculpture in the yard that's a better fielder than Big Papi. Exactly! That's the point I alluded to about a Suzyn Waldmann quote. She once said that " __________ (I forget the player) is a much better fielder than Jason Giambi." So is that lawn sculpture. Jason and Papi both field like Dick Stuart was their boyhood idol. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 22 2010 09:58 AM Re: Sack One

FREE CHRIS CARTER WATCH: ROCHESTER-- 3-4, with a 2B and HR. TOTALS: 49 PA, 2 HR, 8 XBH, .261 BA/.306 OBA/.565 SLG/.871 OPS, 1 Rochester Pitcher Obliterated w/Intensity-Propelled Mind Bullets

MFS62 Apr 22 2010 10:15 AM Re: Sack One

When Ike was brought up , Cris went into a mini-funk for a few games. But after Ike proved he was mortal in his second game, Cris found his stroke again. I wonder is this is a Dorian Grey kind of thing. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 22 2010 11:14 AM Re: Sack One

MFS62 wrote: When Ike was brought up , Cris went into a mini-funk for a few games. But after Ike proved he was mortal in his second game, Cris found his stroke again. I wonder is this is a Dorian Grey kind of thing. Later Which one's the portrait?

Edgy DC Apr 23 2010 09:46 AM Re: Sack One

Havin' fun at Sack One. Player Team Age PA AVG OBP SLG OPS Evans Bing (AA) 24 65 .368 .431 .684 1.115 =#FF8000]Lutz =#FF8000]Bing (AA) =#FF8000]24 =#FF8000]69 =#FF8000].309 =#FF8000].441 =#FF8000].636 =#FF8000]1.078 Davis Buff (AAA) 23 42 .364 .500 .636 1.136 Davis Mets 23 16 .400 .438 .467 .904 Davis Total 23 58 .375 .483 .583 1.066 =#FF8000]Hessman =#FF8000]Buff (AAA) =#FF8000]32 =#FF8000]56 =#FF8000].298 =#FF8000].375 =#FF8000].638 =#FF8000]1.013 Carter Buff (AAA) 27 54 .294 .333 .608 .941 =#FF8000]Hubbard =#FF8000]Bing (AA) =#FF8000]28 =#FF8000]46 =#FF8000].326 =#FF8000].370 =#FF8000].535 =#FF8000].904 Montz Bing (AA) 26 39 .212 .308 .394 .702 =#FF8000]Jacobs =#FF8000]Mets =#FF8000]29 =#FF8000]28 =#FF8000].208 =#FF8000].296 =#FF8000].375 =#FF8000].671 Tatis Mets 35 29 .192 .250 .346 .596 =#FF8000]Cervenak =#FF8000]Buff (AAA) =#FF8000]33 =#FF8000]54 =#FF8000].204 =#FF8000].204 =#FF8000].296 =#FF8000].500 Catalanotto Mets 36 15 .143 .200 .143 .343

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 23 2010 09:50 AM Re: Sack One

So... Nick Evans can hit AA pitching, it seems. Lutz plays first? (Now THERE's a bat for which they need to find a place.)

MFS62 Apr 23 2010 09:55 AM Re: Sack One

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: So... Nick Evans can hit AA pitching, it seems. Lutz plays first? (Now THERE's a bat for which they need to find a place.) My kid is listed ar 6'1", 220 pounds. The first is a stretch, the second is a contraction. First, or maybe left field, may be his only spot. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 23 2010 01:52 PM Re: Sack One

Jacobs will get a chance to "build" on those numbers/take some PAs away from Carter and Hessman (and, perhaps, AAA time from Evans/Lutz), as he's cleared waivers and accepted his assignment to Buffalo.

Edgy DC Apr 23 2010 01:56 PM Re: Sack One

Saw that coming.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 23 2010 02:06 PM Re: Sack One

Would be funny if Oberkfell does what Manuel didn't and relegates him to HR-or-bust pinch-hit duty, no?