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Jumping?

Edgy DC Apr 06 2010 08:47 PM

I think I'm about to get an offer for a new position from another company. I've made no secret here that I'm unhappy where I work --- they don't appreciate my work, and my boss seems depressed and it adds up to a potent cocktail of low morale. Thing is, the new place, while clearly filled with nice people, seems kind of dysfunctional too. A lot of folks are stressed, and they acknowledge clear systems aren't in place to control workflow. They pull long hours, but I'm doing that now, and at least I wouldn't be doing it alone. The folks I've met really seem to like me and inside information I've gotten is that they haven't liked the other candidates at all. Complicting factor number one. I'm pretty much under the gun at the old place. They can arbitrarily bounce me at any time. And things are arbitrary around there. Complicting factor number two. The opportunity at the new place came through a recommendation by a close friend. My work there, good or bad, would be a potential reflection on him. So, it's not a great fit, but forward might simply be healthier than backward, although the lazy entitlement-weakened part of me that Glenn Beck must hate kind of wishes they'd just bust my ass so I could get a big fat severence check and cool out for a month or two. So, how much more should I be asking from the less-than-ideal new place in order to make the jump?

batmagadanleadoff Apr 06 2010 09:22 PM Re: Jumping? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 06 2010 09:39 PM

[quote="Edgy DC":ohpvtnku]So, how much more should I be asking from the less-than-ideal new place in order to make the jump?[/quote:ohpvtnku] It depends. Will the new place mind if you post 50 messages a day to this forum and skim the web every half hour for new articles that contain the word "Mets"?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2010 09:30 PM Re: Jumping?

You should ask for a lot. They should pay you a lot. I agree with the previous comment too.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 07 2010 04:38 AM Re: Jumping?

Even if the salary is exactly the same, if you think it's a better place (more security, more job satisfaction) then you should think about making the jump. I wouldn't worry too much about the friend's recommendation part; go into the job confident that you'll do well. Unless you flop completely, which is very unlikely, you won't reflect poorly on your friend.

Willets Point Apr 07 2010 05:22 AM Re: Jumping?

Adults jumping looks dorky unless you're jumping with children. Oh wait...

Edgy DC Apr 07 2010 05:25 AM Re: Jumping?

I would anticipate my posting would drop, as that's a symptom of low morale also.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 07 2010 06:45 AM Re: Jumping?

While I agree in principle with Grimmy, I'd probably ask for 15-20 percent over what you're making now.

Fman99 Apr 07 2010 06:49 AM Re: Jumping?

Which place has the hotter chicks?

Edgy DC Apr 07 2010 07:07 AM Re: Jumping?

New place, but isn't it always like that?

seawolf17 Apr 07 2010 07:12 AM Re: Jumping?

It's always greener on the other side of the fence. I say go for it. I don't see how the friend is a complicating factor, unless you suck, in which case he wouldn't have recommended you.

TransMonk Apr 07 2010 07:12 AM Re: Jumping?

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":hdtlf5az]Even if the salary is exactly the same, if you think it's a better place (more security, more job satisfaction) then you should think about making the jump.[/quote:hdtlf5az] This. Or +10%. In any case, good for you. It sounds like you have been wrestling with the thought of being bounced for a while now. Better to jump than be bounced.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 07 2010 07:31 AM Re: Jumping?

I certainly didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't try to get as much of an increase as you can. My point was that, if the best salary you can get is a 0% increase, you should still accept if you think it's a better situation.

metirish Apr 07 2010 07:38 AM Re: Jumping?

[quote="Edgy DC":3j52sqej] So, it's not a great fit, but forward might simply be healthier than backward, although the lazy entitlement-weakened part of me that Glenn Beck must hate kind of wishes they'd just bust my ass so I could get a big fat severence check and cool out for a month or two. [/quote:3j52sqej] I'd miss good stuff like this if you can't post in the new job, but I'll be OK. Would the new job in any way affect your volunteer work?, is that even in the thought process right now? Good luck in whatever you choose, they'd be lucky to have you , you big bollox.

themetfairy Apr 07 2010 07:42 AM Re: Jumping?

I'll concur with the others. You've been miserable at your current job for so long that a change of scenery could only be a good thing.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 07 2010 07:42 AM Re: Jumping?

I think the bump is important when switching jobs though because the way US business works today (or at least the industry Edgward is in) it's almost impossible to get meaningful pay increases anymore without making a radical change, so this is one of your best chances to take that step.

Edgy DC Apr 07 2010 07:45 AM Re: Jumping?

It's further away from the dinner program I run, but they seem to be cool about giving me a flexible schedule that would allow me to come in early and leave early, so I could probably still get down there a few days a week. Yeah, it is true that the best time to negotiate is on the way in (unless you're Oliver Perez). I'm going for a bump, baby.

sharpie Apr 07 2010 07:53 AM Re: Jumping?

There's also the possibility of pulling the old squeeze play. Get the higher offer, go back to your old place and demand they do better -- if they say no, fine, you leave. If they top the other offer, you might be able to squeeze the new guys.

Edgy DC Apr 07 2010 08:02 AM Re: Jumping?

I'm trying to throw off my doormat personality for one bold hour of negotiations. I don't picture myself able to pull off that act.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 07 2010 08:03 AM Re: Jumping?

I did that once, and I did end up getting more money to stay at my current employer. The problem was, I was then seen as disloyal by the people who kept me, and the company that I turned down didn't forget either. A year or so later, when I started looking around again, I was able to get an interview there, but they went with somebody else, and they told me it was because I had turned them down in the past. The "squeeze play" can involve burnt bridges, on both ends, and should be used with caution. If you like this new company, and they're showing goodwill, don't screw around with them. Don't push them for a better offer unless you're planning to take it.

metirish Apr 07 2010 08:10 AM Re: Jumping?

Uh, hire Scott Boras to be your dick......and yeah I tend to agree with Grim.

sharpie Apr 07 2010 08:44 AM Re: Jumping?

I've been on both sides of the squeeze play. I don't find it disloyal for people who work for me to interview elsewhere and it is one of the best ways to get a real pay bump while staying in your current job. A long time ago I got an offer from where I am now. My former employer offered me $2,000 more to stay. I brought that back to my current company who matched that. It worked out well for me then. Of course, all situations are different. One guy who worked for me accepted another job while I was on vacation. I told him he was stupid not to give me the chance to at least match the offer. He ended up being miserable in the new job and often brings up his stupidity in not letting me match the offer whenever we talk now.

themetfairy Apr 07 2010 09:04 AM Re: Jumping?

D-Dad supervised a guy who left for another company. He was reportedly miserable in his new job, D-Dad was looking to fill the spot (after the guy's replacement didn't work out), and the guy gave D-Dad all indications that he wanted to come back. He got the offer. Went to his current employer with it, and used it to get a bump. I wouldn't care about it in general, but D-Dad considered (and still considers) the guy to be a friend. I think he's a douche.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 07 2010 09:12 AM Re: Jumping? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 07 2010 09:27 AM

[quote="TransMonk":1iiwkl1p] This. Or +10%. [/quote:1iiwkl1p] This being the aim of asking for 15-20%. Either way, the change in scenery itself has been a long time coming. Bon chance, ami.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 07 2010 09:26 AM Re: Jumping?

[quote="Edgy DC":35279jd2]I'm trying to throw off my doormat personality for one bold hour of negotiations. I don't picture myself able to pull off that act.[/quote:35279jd2] Late to the party here, so I'll just say, "good luck". You definitely sounded beat-down in the current joint, so "forward" seems a good direction, and even better if a few more buck$ get thrown your way.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 07 2010 09:34 AM Re: Jumping?

Not that I have or ever will be successful making money but I've found that imitating ballplayers — framing your greed in terms of "Taking care of your family" — is the way to go when tricking companies into giving you more casheroo. "The reason I'm looking for this job isn't only because I love this work but that I have do better for my family blah blah blah..."

Edgy DC Apr 07 2010 09:35 AM Re: Jumping?

And you think mentioning that you know how to set the place on fire is generally a bad idea, correct?

metirish Apr 07 2010 09:41 AM Re: Jumping?

"In this economy " , oh never mind. Metfairy , that sounds like a dirty move on D-Dad but I guess he knows the game , still, I would be pissed in a big way.

Gwreck Apr 07 2010 11:14 AM Re: Jumping?

In my opinion, use of the squeeze play or similar tactics are appropriate at any time, for any reason if an employer is insistent on having "at-will" employees, as is the case with most employers in NY State. Holding grudges regarding same is unwarranted. I see no reason to justify why employers somehow get the bigger benefit of the doubt in these sorts of situations.

themetfairy Apr 07 2010 11:25 AM Re: Jumping?

[quote="metirish":2guyvlpm] Metfairy , that sounds like a dirty move on D-Dad but I guess he knows the game , still, I would be pissed in a big way.[/quote:2guyvlpm] The game is the game - I'm fine with that in an abstract way. But I think the guy was taking advantage of the fact that D-Dad considers him a friend. It's the fact that the guy used the friendship like that (which also put D-Dad a couple of months behind in filling the job, because he wasn't considering other candidates because they were in the process of constructing a nice offer for this "friend") that pisses me off. If he were truly a friend, he would have let D-Dad know that he should also have been interviewing other candidates at an earlier point in time.

Fman99 Apr 07 2010 01:36 PM Re: Jumping?

When I changed employers in 2007 my previous employer did ask if they could convince me to stay by increasing my salary. I let them know that I was leaving for reasons besides money and that was that. I did reject my current employer's initial offer, which was at the lowest possible end of a salary range that was bandied about in the hiring process. They came back with an offer that was a few K higher and I took it.

Fman99 Apr 07 2010 01:37 PM Re: Jumping?

I also did deal with the possible job change last year but ended up going to my current employer and asking to be assigned to some new contract. I got my wish and now I'm having much more fun at work. So it ended up working out well for me.

themetfairy Apr 08 2010 12:44 PM Re: Jumping?

The concept of Fman having fun at work is a frightening one....

DocTee Apr 08 2010 01:12 PM Re: Jumping?

Do it Edgy. Jump, man, jump. And this is the only time you can negotiate, so use that to your advantage.

Edgy DC Apr 14 2010 08:41 AM Re: Jumping?

They came in low. Time to strap 'em on.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 14 2010 08:56 AM Re: Jumping?

Git what's yours, you steel-balled SOB.

MFS62 Apr 14 2010 09:50 AM Re: Jumping? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 14 2010 09:51 AM

[quote="Edgy DC":jhckp67o]They came in low. Time to strap 'em on.[/quote:jhckp67o] Lower than what you're now making, or lower than what you wanted? If the money is the same, and you're guaranteed a spot at the new place, try this: A guy at a place where I used to work left his resume on a copier where his boss would find it. The boss found it, and read it, and realized the guy was really too valuable to lose. So even though he couldn't offer him a spot in his department, he found another spot for him in the company at a higher salary. The guy eventually went on to become a Senior Vice President. Balsy move. Unexpectedly great results. Later

Edgy DC Apr 14 2010 09:51 AM Re: Jumping?

It's comparable money. My boss hates my guts, I think.

MFS62 Apr 14 2010 09:53 AM Re: Jumping?

In that case, insult his sister, make him fire you. Then you can collect unemployment as well as the package, and laugh all the way to the bank. Er, take the new spot first and negotiate a delayed start date so you can enjoy the money.. Later

Ashie62 Apr 14 2010 10:07 AM Re: Jumping?

[quote="MFS62":1e3p9zw1]In that case, insult his sister, make him fire you. Then you can collect unemployment as well as the package, and laugh all the way to the bank. Er, take the new spot first and negotiate a delayed start date so you can enjoy the money.. Later[/quote:1e3p9zw1] Money is replaceable and the least of our problems

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 14 2010 10:08 AM Re: Jumping?

[quote="Edgy DC":39jwga33]It's comparable money. My boss hates my guts, I think.[/quote:39jwga33] This is the one who practically broke down in front of you? Yipe-- how can you even tell?

MFS62 Apr 14 2010 10:14 AM Re: Jumping?

[quote="Ashie62":2o00kjhi][quote="MFS62":2o00kjhi]In that case, insult his sister, make him fire you. Then you can collect unemployment as well as the package, and laugh all the way to the bank. Er, take the new spot first and negotiate a delayed start date so you can enjoy the money.. Later[/quote:2o00kjhi] Money is replaceable and the least of our problems[/quote:2o00kjhi] Ashie, I was responding to Edgy, who said he thinks his boss hates him. Later

Nymr83 Apr 14 2010 07:51 PM Re: Jumping?

do whats best for you, because they'll worry about whats best for them. if asking for more money where you are now just to turnaround and tell the new guys helps you then do it. its not sleezy, they'd offer you a pay cut if they could. just decide if the resulting damage to your relationship with current employer could hurt you enough down the line to matter, say if you needed them for a reference (are they really a good one anyway if the boss hates you?) i can't speak for you, but i'd be (and have been( miserable when un-employed, even if cash isn't an immediate concern, i feel dirty and/or useless. of course you'd have the volunteer work that you seem to like while on the unemployment vacation so your results may vary,

Edgy DC Apr 28 2010 01:01 PM Re: Jumping?

So, while waiting to get back to me, they hire a new director for the department. That's good news, because nobody at the company was trying hard to hide from me that the department and the procedures lacked structure, and were in fact hoping I can help them with that. (While I didn't say, "Good luck getting me to straighten your asses out!" I certainly thought it.) Bad news is that the offer they gave me is effectively on hold until this woman starts at the end of May, and reviews my credentials and perhaps calls me back in. Yay! Boo! Eh! I'm going to use the time to put Operation Phillip Marlowe into effect and find out everything about this woman that can possibly be known.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 28 2010 02:47 PM Re: Jumping?

Awesome! Dammit! Huh? Just don't change for her-- stay gold, Edgyboy.