Master Index of Archived Threads


phils phans... always full of class

attgig Apr 16 2010 10:34 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5098407 PHILADELPHIA -- A New Jersey man is facing charges after police say he intentionally vomited on an 11-year-old girl and her father in the stands during a Philadelphia Phillies game. Twenty-one-year-old Matthew Clemmens, of Cherry Hill, N.J., was arraigned Friday on charges stemming from his behavior at Wednesday night's Phillies-Nationals game. Police say Clemmens made himself vomit on an off-duty police captain and his daughter after a companion was kicked out of Citizens Bank Park for unruly behavior, which included cursing, spitting and spilling beer by Clemmens and a friend. According to an account in the Philadelphia Daily News, Clemmens and his friend were asked by the 15-year-old daughter of Easton police Capt. Michael Vangelo to stop cursing and spitting. A short while later, Vangelo said, it started again. "One guy started spitting ... first it landed on the back of my daughter's chair. Then it landed on her hooded sweatshirt," Vangelo said, according to the Philadelphia Daily News. After Vangelo reported the incident to stadium officials, Clemmens' friend was led out of the stadium. At that point, Vangelo said Clemmens said he would be sick and "put two fingers down his throat." He then "leaned forward and started vomiting on us," Vangelo said, according to the Daily News. Philadelphia police say Clemmens also punched Vangelo and vomited on an arresting officer. "It reminds you of the type of behavior you used to hear about at the 700 level in Veterans Stadium," Philadelphia police spokesman Lt. Frank Vanore, according to the Daily News. Vangelo told the Daily News he didn't hit Clemmens because "I kept thinking, 'If I get arrested, my kids will be alone here." The Philadelphia Inquirer reported that Clemmens is being held on $36,000 bail on three complaints containing 15 counts of the different offenses. "I was just a dad with my kids enjoying a game," Vangelo said, according to the Daily News. "I never experienced anything like that before."

bmfc1 Apr 16 2010 10:58 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

On Opening Day in DC, a friend saw a Phillies fan walk up to a Nationals fan and say "your team fucking sucks."

Ashie62 Apr 16 2010 11:03 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

My GF comes from Philly and is a Phillies fan. She just wears the hat with hair through the back and does not vomit at games. Taking her to Citifield for the first time soon. I hope she can acquire some "Metitude"

Gwreck Apr 16 2010 11:05 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Citizens Bank Park is on a semi-permanent ban in our household. Only ballpark where I've ever been (slightly) afraid for my safety while there to see the Mets. Fans at Yankee Stadium II and III come across as having Emily Post-manners in comparison.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 16 2010 11:15 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Not only that, but given another year or two of Phil success, and you'll have an entire generation is being born-- out of Yuengling-soaked, Shmitter-fueled drunk sex-- and raised with a tremendous sense of MFY-ish entitlement. So... drunker, cruder, traveling less tastefully than MFY fans... and feeling swell-of-head. Christ, this could be a long decade or so. I never used to mind CBP-- it's a nice park, and it's a healthy exercise in fandom to play "away team" every now and again, I think. But with YoungerPooper potentially in tow, the prospect of being held hostage by drunken lunatics with a lot less to lose than me terrifies me a little.

Ceetar Apr 16 2010 11:41 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I've never liked Citizen's Bank Ballpark, but the appeal (when I can afford it, May 1st, maybe not..) of 90 Mets games (+11 in October..*hopes*) to see live versus 81 is just too broad. Plus I have a friend that lives down there, so good excuse. There's a brewery on the way called Iron Hill that has some excellent beers and makes a great pre-game dinner if you're into that sorta thing. But ever since the rivalry really took off in 2008, the Subway Series intensity has drastically decreased for me. I could no longer hold up the Yankees fans as the epitome of all evil. I found myself thinking "At least they're New Yorkers.."

Benjamin Grimm Apr 16 2010 11:51 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Gwreck wrote: Citizens Bank Park is on a semi-permanent ban in our household. Only ballpark where I've ever been (slightly) afraid for my safety while there to see the Mets. Fans at Yankee Stadium II and III come across as having Emily Post-manners in comparison. I agree. (Well, about the Philadelphia part. I haven't been to Yankee Stadium since Seaver's 300th win in 1985.) I won't bring my kids into Citizens Bank Park. It's the nearest big league park to my home, and the Mets visit there several times a year, but I won't go there. If I have a jones to see a Mets road game, I'll go to DC.

soupcan Apr 16 2010 12:06 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Yeah - I don't think I'll be visiting Citizen's Bank anytime soon either. If I can't go to a place and simply wear a Mets hat without being abused then why bother? At Citi Field last week with my 13 year-old I had to turn around and admonish 4 guys in their early 20s after they started everything they yelled with 'FUCKING....!' At least they listened and stopped (why they had to be told to with kids sitting everywhere around them is ridiculous to begin with), I can't imagine what would happen in Philly.

themetfairy Apr 16 2010 12:19 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I'll be in Philly in two weeks, but I'll be sitting with the Team McGraw people and hopefully they'll watch my back.

G-Fafif Apr 16 2010 12:19 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Move CBP to another town -- like Baghdad, perhaps -- and it would be pretty nice.

Centerfield Apr 16 2010 12:32 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

soupcan wrote: Yeah - I don't think I'll be visiting Citizen's Bank anytime soon either. If I can't go to a place and simply wear a Mets hat without being abused then why bother? At Citi Field last week with my 13 year-old I had to turn around and admonish 4 guys in their early 20s after they started everything they yelled with 'FUCKING....!' At least they listened and stopped (why they had to be told to with kids sitting everywhere around them is ridiculous to begin with), I can't imagine what would happen in Philly. And how did Stevie Jetes respond?

Edgy DC Apr 16 2010 01:46 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

"It reminds you of the type of behavior you used to hear about at the 700 level in Veterans Stadium," Philadelphia police spokesman Lt. Frank Vanore, according to the Daily News. I like that a Philadelphia cop had no other reference point. "This is is so strange that the only thing I can compare it to is... other Phillies fans." We spent an afternoon in Phillie last week. My wife said I should never use "mooks" to refer to New Yorkers again. We weren't identifying as Mets fans or Washingtonians or anything, and just walking around shopping, and she just found the general sense of aggression on a sunny retail afternoon to be oppressive.

seawolf17 Apr 16 2010 06:26 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Plus, remember, Phillies fans MURDERED a guy at the ballpark last year. So this a group of human beings who really know how to party.

Valadius Apr 16 2010 06:50 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Four words: Santa Claus. No shit.

Frayed Knot Apr 16 2010 06:56 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Then, of course, there was the holding pen complete with on-site judge to handle all the incidents at the Vet during Eagles games.

Fman99 Apr 17 2010 01:03 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I would like to see the park and take Fboy to a game there but I won't, on account of exposing him to the rabble that attend that place.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 17 2010 05:43 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I'd like to think Fatty McDouchepuke got that shiner as a result of a few accidental "falls" on the way to the stationhouse.

Ashie62 Apr 17 2010 06:58 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

themetfairy wrote: I'll be in Philly in two weeks, but I'll be sitting with the Team McGraw people and hopefully they'll watch my back. I'll be there for the first time in August with friends From South Jersey. I'm looking forward to it

Nymr83 Apr 17 2010 08:02 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'd like to think Fatty McDouchepuke got that shiner as a result of a few accidental "falls" on the way to the stationhouse. he puked on a little girl...i'd have voted to acquit the arresting officers if the guy had fallen on a gun and its discharged into his face on the way to jail.

Edgy DC Apr 17 2010 08:05 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

More important is that that post by Lunchbucket was a Bullet of Puke.

Rockin' Doc Apr 17 2010 08:25 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'd like to think Fatty McDouchepuke got that shiner as a result of a few accidental "falls" on the way to the stationhouse. I like to think that Fatty McDouchepuke got a "boyfriend" named Bubba after he was looked up.

DocTee May 04 2010 07:52 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Phils phan tased. Had this happened in Arizona, the offender would've been stopped and asked for his papers, then possibly deported. A police officer used a Taser gun to apprehend a fan who ran onto the field during a Phillies game Monday night, and the team and the police are investigating whether it was an appropriate use of force. The fan, wearing a baseball cap, red T-shirt and khaki shorts, hopped a fence and scurried around the outfield, eluding two security officers in the bottom of the eighth inning against the St. Louis Cardinals. One officer used a Taser and the fan went down in a heap. Several Phillies placed gloves over their faces and appeared to be stifling laughter at the wild scene. Phillies spokeswomen Bonnie Clark said the police department is investigating the matter and discussing with the team whether using the stun gun was appropriate. Police spokesman Lt. Frank Vanore told The Philadelphia Inquirer police internal affairs will open an investigation to determine if the firing "was proper use of the equipment." Vanore was not made available to The Associated Press when a call was placed to the police department's public affairs office late Monday night. The teams said it's the first time a Taser has been used by police to apprehend a spectator who ran onto the field. The fan was 17-year-old male and he will be charged with criminal trespass and related offenses, the team said. The Phillies did not release his name because he is a juvenile.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 04 2010 07:56 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Phillies spokeswomen Bonnie Clark said the police department is investigating the matter and discussing with the team whether using the stun gun was appropriate. "Next time we should try a real gun," Clark added.

seawolf17 May 04 2010 09:02 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Phillies spokeswomen Bonnie Clark said the police department is investigating the matter and discussing with the team whether using the stun gun was appropriate. "Next time we should try a real gun," Clark added. "Next time you should conveniently 'miss' and hit Chase Utley," I added.

themetfairy May 04 2010 09:06 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Considering the fact that a pack of phans beat a guy to death in the Citizens Bank Ballpark parking lot last year, I can understand why the cops are ready to deal with these guys with the heavy artillery.

Gwreck May 04 2010 09:18 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I'm not a big fan of tasers but in this particular case, sounds perfectly acceptable to me and if it acts as further deterrent to running on the field, even better.

Frayed Knot May 04 2010 09:22 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

It depends. If the guy was resisting in some way - other than just being a stupid drunk who is having fun until he's caught and goes quietly - then it's one thing. But tasers occasionally kill people and I prefer cops/security folks didn't pick that as their first option based on the premise that he might do something or because it's easier than chasing him.

attgig May 04 2010 09:25 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riCu3LJO ... r_embedded another view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqtPUhYdz6M

G-Fafif May 04 2010 09:59 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I'll bet Phillies spokeswoman Bonnie Clark never dreamed so many of her quotes would regard police actions when she took the job.

MFS62 May 04 2010 10:26 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

When I see "Phillies fans" I always think "class". Class D. Later

Ashie62 May 04 2010 10:30 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Gwreck wrote: I'm not a big fan of tasers but in this particular case, sounds perfectly acceptable to me and if it acts as further deterrent to running on the field, even better. I would tase Jeter repeatedly

Centerfield May 04 2010 10:31 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 04 2010 10:41 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Does anyone else hear 70s-cop-show funk-with-bongos when they see that?

Centerfield May 04 2010 10:53 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I love how the cop is making a gun with the fingers of his other hand.

metirish May 04 2010 10:59 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 04 2010 11:05 AM

As punishment for running onto the field this asshole should wear a sign around his neck at phillies home games for a few weeks. somwthing like this

Edgy DC May 04 2010 11:04 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Could you possiblly do a better job casting for the role of "Stupid Young Chump Egged on by His Friends to Run out on the Field." Look at how reality is dawning on him that (1) what seemed like the best idea only 10 seconds ago was actually very stupid, (2) his friends don't really have his interests at heart, and (3) his dad is going to kill him dead.

metirish May 04 2010 11:06 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

LOL....I thnk that about sums up what's going through his head ...

themetfairy May 04 2010 11:54 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

What is he carrying? A hot dog?

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 04 2010 11:56 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Edgy DC wrote: Could you possiblly do a better job casting for the role of "Stupid Young Chump Egged on by His Friends to Run out on the Field." Look at how reality is dawning on him that (1) what seemed like the best idea only 10 seconds ago was actually very stupid, (2) his friends don't really have his interests at heart, and (3) his dad is going to kill him dead. No, actually his Dad is a double-layer douchecake too. [url]http://www.philly.com/inquirer/breaking/news_breaking/20100504_Tasered_teen_asked_dad_for_OK_to_run_on_field.html

themetfairy May 04 2010 12:00 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Could you possiblly do a better job casting for the role of "Stupid Young Chump Egged on by His Friends to Run out on the Field." Look at how reality is dawning on him that (1) what seemed like the best idea only 10 seconds ago was actually very stupid, (2) his friends don't really have his interests at heart, and (3) his dad is going to kill him dead. No, actually his Dad is a double-layer douchecake too. [url]http://www.philly.com/inquirer/breaking/news_breaking/20100504_Tasered_teen_asked_dad_for_OK_to_run_on_field.html I'd love to hear the conversation between the douche dad and his ex-wife when he explained to her that, while under his supervision, their minor son broke the law and got tased in front of thousands of people.

Frayed Knot May 04 2010 02:24 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

attgig wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riCu3LJOgmk&feature=player_embedded another view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqtPUhYdz6M If that first one is the video from last night it doesn't look like the guy got tased at all. The cop/security might have been shooting the thing at him but missing or just aiming it with intent but never pulling the trigger, but it looks like the dope just goes down on his own when he realizes his time is up. I always think it's best if the biggest cop just happens to "trip" on his way to cover the guy and by doing so drops a knee into the back of his ribcage. Makes it tough for the douche to take his bows on the way out if he's trying too hard to catch his breath.

themetfairy May 04 2010 03:03 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Oh - he was swinging a "rally towel" around.

Willets Point May 04 2010 08:30 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Frayed Knot wrote: It depends. If the guy was resisting in some way - other than just being a stupid drunk who is having fun until he's caught and goes quietly - then it's one thing. But tasers occasionally kill people and I prefer cops/security folks didn't pick that as their first option based on the premise that he might do something or because it's easier than chasing him. This.

Nymr83 May 04 2010 09:26 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

It depends. If the guy was resisting in some way - other than just being a stupid drunk who is having fun until he's caught and goes quietly - then it's one thing. But tasers occasionally kill people and I prefer cops/security folks didn't pick that as their first option based on the premise that he might do something or because it's easier than chasing him. what would you consider "goes quietly"? remember that clown who slugged a coach? (i think a white sox game?) running away from the authorities is enough for me, you don't belong on the field and you know it. security/police should not have to give you the benefit of the doubt when you are already trespassing and risk the safety of the teams' personnel or their own safety. plus, he's a phillies fan, so taze his ass.

Edgy DC May 04 2010 09:30 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Tasing an unarmed unthreatening disrupter running away seems pretty disproportionate.

Nymr83 May 04 2010 09:49 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

he was running around trying to evade security, at what point are YOU ready to taze him? not after something like this i hope- Besides Gamboa, an umpire was assaulted in a seperate incident (Jerry was there, coaching the White Sox i think). how many of these wackos do we give the benefit of the doubt to? When security comes after you, you can a) stop running and do as they say, or b) accept the consequences, and i think a tazer is a reasonable consequence when you are running away from police.

Edgy DC May 04 2010 10:02 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

You're on fire tonight. he was running around trying to evade security, at what point are YOU ready to taze him? When he's an actual threat to harm somebody and the taser becomes a necessary risk. He wasn't. not after something like this i hope- No, I would not tase him because of something somebody else did. Besides Gamboa, an umpire was assaulted in a seperate incident (Jerry was there, coaching the White Sox i think). how many of these wackos do we give the benefit of the doubt to? What does "give the benefit of the doubt to" mean? Assuming a greater threat than is apparent and shooting is wreckless and it gets people killed. When security comes after you, you can a) stop running and do as they say, or b) accept the consequences, and i think a tazer is a reasonable consequence when you are running away from police. Firstly, police and security are certainly not the same thing. This was a cop. Secondly, I think it's a disporporitonate amount of consequences. The notion that players were under threat after the pursuit was begun is risible, so please don't suggest it again.

Nymr83 May 04 2010 10:51 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

You're on fire tonight. you must be bringing it out When he's an actual threat to harm somebody and the taser becomes a necessary risk. He wasn't i disagree that he wasnt a threat, and i disagree about hte perceived threat some of you seem to be placing on tasers. they are pretty damn safe, see here: [url]http://www.news-medical.net/news/2007/10/09/30945.aspx No, I would not tase him because of something somebody else did. i'm sure you know that i was demonstrating that i wouldn't wait until after the guy attacked someone What does "give the benefit of the doubt to" mean? Assuming a greater threat than is apparent and shooting is wreckless and it gets people killed. it means he is alreadt breaking the law running on the field and i'm not giing him the benefit of the doubt that he isnt going to hurt someone. you use the word "shooting" here as if in the context of a gun, a taser is not a gun and has rarely if ever killed anyone. the study i quoted said 2 or 3 serious injuries (1 was an unclear link) out of 1,000. i'd guess there'd be that many if a guy got tackled to the ground by police. i think the main disagreement here seems to be over the danger inherent in a taser (and thus when its use is appropriate). while groups like amnesty international claim they are more deadly weapons, i can't find any actual study showing this to be the case. the only study i can find is the Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center study quoted in my link above. do you have proof they are more dangerous than that?

Gwreck May 04 2010 11:48 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Nymr83 wrote: do you have proof they are more dangerous than that? Here's a differing opinion: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... r1205.html Also within that article is a claim that "since 2001, there have been more than 380 deaths following police Taser strikes in the United States and 26 in Canada. Medical examiners have ruled that a Taser was a cause, contributing factor or could not be ruled out in more than 30 of those deaths" which certainly contradicts your claim that a taser has "rarely if ever killed someone."

Fman99 May 05 2010 04:38 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Taze him... because he's a Phillies fan. Everyone should have to get tazed just to get into that den of idiocy.

Edgy DC May 05 2010 05:45 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Thanks, Gwreck. If he was a threat at that time to harm anybody, then I'm a threat, then most every jerk police come into contact with is a threat.

Frayed Knot May 05 2010 07:48 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Nymr83 wrote: It depends. If the guy was resisting in some way - other than just being a stupid drunk who is having fun until he's caught and goes quietly - then it's one thing. But tasers occasionally kill people and I prefer cops/security folks didn't pick that as their first option based on the premise that he might do something or because it's easier than chasing him. what would you consider "goes quietly"? remember that clown who slugged a coach? (i think a white sox game?) Not that certainly. That guy - a father/son team of drunks actually - went from the stands directly at the coach with obvious menace in mind. running away from the authorities is enough for me, you don't belong on the field and you know it. security/police should not have to give you the benefit of the doubt when you are already trespassing and risk the safety of the teams' personnel or their own safety. plus, he's a phillies fan, so taze his ass. It's a judgement call as it usually is with good law enforcement. In this particular case you have a skinny teenager running aimlessly in circles while waving a towel with no attempt or even hint that he was going after a player. In cases like that I'd prefer that going to the taser not be the first option nor be the choice based on not wanting to spend another 15 seconds cornering the guy.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 05 2010 08:01 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Another douchebag ran onto the field in Philly last night and wasn't tazed. I do hope he's raped in prison

Edgy DC May 05 2010 08:03 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Well, that kicks in the stomache the argument that a public taser shock would be an effective deterrent for the next guy.

Rockin' Doc May 05 2010 10:54 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I guess I'm a hard liner, but I say that if an individual runs onto the field the authorities should utilize any non-lethal means necessary to subdue the culprit as expediantly as possible. If a person doesn't want to get tazed, maced, or body slammed and then cuffed and arrested they should stay in their seat like a civil individual. I may be incorrect, but as far as I know, no one has ever been tazed for enjoying the game from their seat.

Edgy DC May 05 2010 10:58 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

The thing is (1) Tasers have been shown to be potentially lethal and indeed have been in a disquieting number of cases, and (2) since when is it good practice for police to escalate a non-violent situation by attacking with weapons of any sort?

Centerfield May 05 2010 11:57 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

You know what would be a more effective deterrent than tasers? Lifetime ban from all ballparks.

Gwreck May 05 2010 11:58 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I am in favor, but sadly, that's next to impossible to enforce.

Fman99 May 05 2010 01:55 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Another douchebag ran onto the field in Philly last night and wasn't tazed. I do hope he's raped in prison I hope he gets DP'd by a catheter and a Michael Clarke Duncan look alike.

Nymr83 May 05 2010 08:01 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

according to this morning's paper, the crowd chanted "tase him" at the new idiot last night. Gwreck, you are quoting study that focussed on one particular model of stun gun, also whats up with this? But since 2001, there have been more than 380 deaths following police Taser strikes in the United States and 26 in Canada. Medical examiners have ruled that a Taser was a cause, contributing factor or could not be ruled out in more than 30 of those deaths then what happened in the other 350? was the taser ruled out? then why are they even being mentioned? so we've got 30 deaths in 7 years (article 2008), an unknown number of which (unknown because the article doesnt say and i dont have access to the individual reports) the taser didnt necessarily do anything but "couldn't be ruled out" this still looks "safe" to me given the number of times tasers get used. this artcile also focuses on one model, making it generally useless for eveluating anything else

Nymr83 May 05 2010 08:03 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

You know what would be a more effective deterrent than tasers? Lifetime ban from all ballparks. its unenforceable, unless you want to require a birth certificate, photo id, and social security card to enter a ballpark (hell, we couldnt even keep a guy on a "no fly list" from getting on a plane!)

Edgy DC May 05 2010 08:28 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

The sheer volume of the number of taser-related deaths makes incontrovertible the fact that they can and do kill. Many of these deaths are unavoidable tragedies where an officer acted legitimately in response to imminent threat of violence. The boy in the ballpark doesn't fit that description in any way.

Centerfield May 06 2010 09:08 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

do you have proof they are more dangerous than that? Here's a differing opinion: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... r1205.html Also within that article is a claim that "since 2001, there have been more than 380 deaths following police Taser strikes in the United States and 26 in Canada. Medical examiners have ruled that a Taser was a cause, contributing factor or could not be ruled out in more than 30 of those deaths" which certainly contradicts your claim that a taser has "rarely if ever killed someone." The problem is, the numbers, when presented in this manner, mean almost nothing (and I don't mean any offense to you Gwreck, I know you didn't write the article). Saying more than 380 deaths have followed Taser strikes is silly. It's like saying 380 people died while watching Oprah. It doesn't mean the taser or Oprah, had anything to do with the deaths. In fact, in the next sentence, it indicates that only 30 of those deaths could have possibly resulted from the taser. Meaning that first number, 380, is not only meaningless, but misleading. So we have 30 deaths since 2001. How many times was the taser used? Do we have an overall percentage? How does this compare with other non-lethal methods (tackling, clubbing, rubber bullets etc.)? Until we get some real data, I don't see how one can have an opinion one way or the other. Moreover, unless there is some strong research confirming the safety of tasers, you probably shouldn't be using them at all. All of this being said, if you are going to taser people who run on the field, it should be disclosed ahead of time and uniformly applied. Since I am an attorney, I am happy to offer CBP language for their sign: WARNING: ANY AND ALL PERSONS WHO RUN OUT ON THE FIELD WILL BE TASERED. NO QUESTIONS ASKED. DRUNK TEENS, LITTLE OLD LADIES, NAKED PERVERTS, IT DOESN'T MATTER. WHEN WE SAY ALL, WE MEAN ALL. YOU SHOULD ALSO KNOW THAT THE RESEARCH ON THE SAFETY OF TASERS IS INCONCLUSIVE. WHICH MEANS YOU COULD DIE.

Centerfield May 06 2010 09:19 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Nymr83 wrote: You know what would be a more effective deterrent than tasers? Lifetime ban from all ballparks. its unenforceable, unless you want to require a birth certificate, photo id, and social security card to enter a ballpark (hell, we couldnt even keep a guy on a "no fly list" from getting on a plane!) I know. Until they develop retinal scan technology at ticket gates.

Willets Point May 06 2010 09:30 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Centerfield wrote: Nymr83 wrote: You know what would be a more effective deterrent than tasers? Lifetime ban from all ballparks. its unenforceable, unless you want to require a birth certificate, photo id, and social security card to enter a ballpark (hell, we couldnt even keep a guy on a "no fly list" from getting on a plane!) I know. Until they develop retinal scan technology at ticket gates. Arizona's in the vanguard on this.

Gwreck May 06 2010 09:35 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Centerfield wrote: The problem is, the numbers, when presented in this manner, mean almost nothing (and I don't mean any offense to you Gwreck, I know you didn't write the article). Saying more than 380 deaths have followed Taser strikes is silly. It's like saying 380 people died while watching Oprah. It doesn't mean the taser or Oprah, had anything to do with the deaths. In fact, in the next sentence, it indicates that only 30 of those deaths could have possibly resulted from the taser. Meaning that first number, 380, is not only meaningless, but misleading. So we have 30 deaths since 2001. How many times was the taser used? Do we have an overall percentage? How does this compare with other non-lethal methods (tackling, clubbing, rubber bullets etc.)? Until we get some real data, I don't see how one can have an opinion one way or the other. Moreover, unless there is some strong research confirming the safety of tasers, you probably shouldn't be using them at all. No worries, none taken. 15 seconds of googling was used here really to demonstrate the ease of finding a dissenting viewpoint (fully aware of its limitations). I am unlikely to find a peer-reviewed scientific study without a subscription to one of those journals.

Edgy DC May 06 2010 09:46 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

There's plenty of real data out there though. And, most assuredly, it shows that tasers are dangerous and, too often, deadly. They certainly shouldn't be used in non-threatening situations.

Centerfield May 06 2010 09:55 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

If it does, then I'm with you. If it shows conclusively that it's no more dangerous than tackling a guy to the ground, then taser them. If it's inconclusive, then err on the side of caution and run down your perps. Or get cowboys with lassos.

metirish May 06 2010 10:00 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

The day after an ex NYPD detective , now a lawyer was telling Francesa that "no one has died from a tasering, on very, very rare occasions it happens, usually that person would have an underlying condition , like a heart problem "....it sounded like such bullshit but Francesa treated it like gospel.

seawolf17 May 06 2010 10:27 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Willets Point wrote: Centerfield wrote: Nymr83 wrote: You know what would be a more effective deterrent than tasers? Lifetime ban from all ballparks. its unenforceable, unless you want to require a birth certificate, photo id, and social security card to enter a ballpark (hell, we couldnt even keep a guy on a "no fly list" from getting on a plane!) I know. Until they develop retinal scan technology at ticket gates. Arizona's in the vanguard on this. No, they just automatically tase anyone darker than Gwen Stefani.

Edgy DC May 06 2010 10:34 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

metirish wrote: The day after an ex NYPD detective , now a lawyer was telling Francesa that "no one has died from a tasering, on very, very rare occasions it happens, usually that person would have an underlying condition , like a heart problem "....it sounded like such bullshit but Francesa treated it like gospel. I like that. Nobody dies, but when they do...

Centerfield May 06 2010 12:57 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

...it's their own fault for being weak anyway."

Frayed Knot May 06 2010 01:40 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

There was a death from a taser in Virginia recently (like in the last few weeks) and I believe the article on that one referenced one other in the same town or county a year or so before that. It just seemed unnecessary in this case. I'm all for dopes getting arrested; I just don't see where every arrest requires the perp being tased first.

G-Fafif May 06 2010 03:05 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

In memory of the late Robin Roberts, all Citizens Bank Park tasers are being lowered to half voltage.

metsmarathon May 06 2010 03:48 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

i wonder if the deaths from tasering resulted from single brief routine use of the taser, or repeated/multiple/protracted/non-routine use of the taser. because you can tackle a guy with a weak heart and it can go out on you. or you can break his neck, or important bones and joints and stuff that aren't as easily damaged when a guy falls like a sack of potatoes to the ground without another 200lbs of man driving him down. i do like the idea of cowboys with lassos, though. granted, somebody'd sue over rope burn...

metirish May 06 2010 04:51 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

NYC had a case back in '08 that was tragic all around. A "disturbed" man was up on top of a store awning naked.....the police lieutenant ordered him tasered to get him down.... he fell ten feet to his death....a few days later the cop took his own life. http://www.newser.com/story/38989/ny-ta ... icide.html

Frayed Knot May 06 2010 05:07 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

If it's inconclusive, then err on the side of caution and run down your perps. Or get cowboys with lassos. See, here I think you're onto something. Each stadium/team should have its own method of running down escaped fans. The lasso thing is great but they should only handle it that way in Texas. Some guy busts out of the gate on horseback and you'll be roped and tied within 10 seconds or your next run is free. Of course if you do get snagged your problems have just begun. "Heat up the branding iron, Rusty" - In Philly after they catch a guy they then bring a drunk out of the stands to throw up on him. A specially marked ticket makes a different patron each game into that night's designated drunk. Talk about your win-win situations - one guy runs onto the field and TWO guys get to talk about their experiences at work the next day! That's if either of them remember it. - In Miami the Marlins should have a big-ass fishing pole manned by some character out of a Hemingway novel at the ready to reel 'em in. Harpoons could work also I suppose. - Minnesota should use a pair of Scandinavian looking babe twins and just entice the guy out of his romp. Then the cops will stomp on his ass while he's distracted and slobbering. - Milwaukee cops should just hit the guy in the face with a snow shovel, I'm sure there are plenty of those around. - San Diego could do the same thing only with a surf board. - In San Fran the Giants won't do anything because the city council would have long ago declared the city to be a illegal fan haven. - They won't do anything in Toronto either because they're too polite to do otherwise. - Yanqui fans will, of course, throw batteries at the perp ... car batteries. Plus, you can pick them up right outside the stadium, and cheap, often with wires still attached. - Baltimore cops will just catch them the usual way but prevent further incidents with two words: Crabs, Testicles - Atlanta could reinstate Chief Nok-a-homa who would then have the option to turn the dude into a soprano with what the locals there call: 'Tomahawk Justice'

MFS62 May 06 2010 06:02 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

That took too much work not to have earned a BOC. Later

Nymr83 May 06 2010 07:54 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

[crossout:1h4noipf]Or get cowboys with lassos.[/crossout:1h4noipf] as FK said, you're onto something. They should wear team colors and come charging out of the bullpen like fake knights at Medieval Times! Mr. Met can mount the lead horse if time permits. Oh, and if the horse shits on the field the idiot gets to clean it up.

Rockin' Doc May 06 2010 08:16 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I am obviously not an expert on Tasers (and similar devices), but the research I have done on line in the past few hours leads me to believe the lethality of such devices is being over stated. In 2007 the School of Emergency Medicine at Wake Forest University conducted a review of 1,000 taser incidents and found that 99.7% of the individuals tased suffered only minimal injuries such as scrapes, bruises, or muscle stiffness if they suffered any residual effects at all. The remaining 0.3% of the tased individuals suffered injuries severe enough to require hospital admission; two with head injuries associated with their falling and one was admitted for nonspecific illness 2 days after his initial tasing and arrest. [url]http://www.news-medical.net/news/2007/10/09/30945.aspx In January of 2010, Angela Wright a researcher for Amnesty International and author of the organizations 2008 report regarding tasers stated, "Tasers are not the 'non- lethal' weapons they are portrayed to be. They can kill and should only be used as a last resort." She cites Amnesty International research figures that report that 360 in the US have died since 2001 as a result of being subdued by a taser. These deaths were out of an estimated 660,000 taser usaes on suspects and inmates according to Amnesty International's research. [url]http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/01/17/82495/police-defend-use-of-tasers-as.html A friend of mine's son is a Deputy Sheriff in a nearby county. Part of his training required that all cadets be pepper sprayed and in a seperate incident be subdued with a Taser gun. My freind's son said the pepper spray was bad and the effects lasted much longer, but the taser was far worse. He stated the Taser caused terrible pain for the 5-6 seconds he received a charge. However, other than some severe fatigue for an hour or so and some muscle stiffness that lasted roughly 24 hours the effects didn't last long. Still, he said if he had to endure either the pepper spray or the Taser again he would definitely choose to be pepper sprayed. At least anectdotally, it seems to me that the taser isn't too dangerous, at least for those in relatively good health, or law enforcement agencies across the country would shy away from using it in training excercises of new cadets. Assuming the figures compiled by Amnesty International are accurate, they suggest the non-lethal outcome for taser uses between 2001 and 2008 to be at 99.95%. I'm sure there is some statistical error that can be assumed in that figure, but it suggests, at least to me, that Tasers are pretty safe when used properly. Obviously, others may feel differently, but I think we each must accept the consequences of our actions. Ultimately, if the kid had stayed in his seat and acted in a responsible manner he wouldn't have subjected himself to being Tasered and arrested.

Edgy DC May 06 2010 08:29 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

But, if my math is right, we're talking one fatality per 1,833 uses then. That's not an acceptable rate to me at all. One can hardly assume that the fatalaty rate of catching somebody on grass is comparable, even with a hard takedown.

bmfc1 May 08 2010 08:28 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

http://deadspin.com/5534040/for-the-phi ... and-vagina

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 25 2010 03:32 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Vomit Boy pleads guilty to simple assault, disorderly conduct and harassment. Probation likely.

bmfc1 May 26 2010 06:38 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

"We're the Worst!" admits [u:1qsosaxy]Philadelphia City Paper[/u:1qsosaxy]. http://citypaper.net/articles/2010/05/2 ... ports-fans

metirish Jun 08 2010 06:55 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

The worst yet? Little Phillies Fan Boozing

themetfairy Jun 08 2010 07:51 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

metirish wrote: The worst yet? Little Phillies Fan Boozing That sounds like a poll question. I still think the guy who intentionally vomited on the off-duty cop and his little kids is the douchiest.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 08 2010 07:59 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Yeah, give the kid a break. That game was a nail-biter.

Edgy DC Jun 08 2010 09:10 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Well, vomit is probalby worse than beer for a kid. But if they're serving Bud, who can tell the difference?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 08 2010 09:41 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

If it weren't for this, there would have been nothing offensive at Citizen's Bank this weekend. Really, though, what's worse... if the kid grabbed dad's drink and is actually having beer, or if his parents thought it would be a good idea to refill a used beer bottle with a child-appropriate beverage? I mean, the former's an unhappy accident, but the latter's a willful act of stupidity garnished with needless complication.

MFS62 Jun 08 2010 10:01 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Really, though, what's worse... if the kid grabbed dad's drink and is actually having beer, or if his parents thought it would be a good idea to refill a used beer bottle with a child-appropriate beverage? I mean, the former's an unhappy accident, but the latter's a willful act of stupidity garnished with needless complication. It WAS a beer. And Pete Rose bet the kid ten bucks he couldn't chug it. Later

Willets Point Jun 08 2010 10:15 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

True confession. Shea Stadium, ca. 1980 at a Jets game. Our seats are in the endzone in front of the giant scoreboard. There are no concession stands near the temporary seats but there are beer vendors who come through the stands. Me, I'm six and whining about being thirsty. My Dad, fed up with the whining and having no other options, gives me a sip of his Budweiser. It's gross but it stopped me from whining. Knowing now what it's like to be the father of a whiny child, I don't judge my Dad. Thank God there were no cell phone cameras back then.

metirish Jun 21 2010 02:00 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

It never ends with them :) http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ ... -1.2041256

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 21 2010 02:24 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

metirish wrote: It never ends with them :) http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ ... -1.2041256 Well, hey-- at least he didn't deliberately fall on a child.

metirish Jun 21 2010 02:27 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

There will be enough material for a DVD soon.

bmfc1 Jun 30 2010 07:22 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

HAHAHAHA! If a mascot can be over-rated, the Phantic certainly is. And now "he" is being sued--again! http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homep ... d=15585797

Edgy DC Jun 30 2010 07:39 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I once sued Mr. Met for being so awesome that I grew increasingly depressed with my inferiority. He arrived at the deposition, gave me a high five, and I've been walking on sunshine ever since.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 09 2010 01:54 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

(H/T to Amazin' Avenue) First, the meat: as quoted in a Philly Daily News column, Victorino spouts off ill-advisedly about Phil fans' booing. It's getting late early in these parts, to paraphrase Yogi, or so is the feel. You look to the scoreboard now in hopes that the rest of the division lost, too, hoping to buy another day for a team that more and more appears in need of a complete do-over. "I'm hearing fans yelling, 'Victorino, you're horrible; you stink,' " the centerfielder said. "Aw, right. Like they forget what happened the last 2 years. That frustrates me even more . . . You hear things like that, it eats at you. I mean Jimmy used that word. I'm not going to use it. But you know what I'm talking about." "I'm not calling you an idiot. I'm just strongly implying that you are one." Then, the subtle dessert: Phillies fans react to Victorino's comments. Not quite as fun as it could have been, had they, say, approached Phils fans post-loss... but it's got its mild joys. My favorite? It's either the since-2007 "diehard" or the self-loathing guy at the end who contradicts his girlfriend. (Also of note: nobody's quite cursing him out the way they did Mr. Rollins, eh?)

Gwreck Jul 09 2010 10:03 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I guess I'll post this one here. After all, I'm certainly above reposting dubiously-sourced rumors...well, maybe we can make an exception: Is Jayson Werth having an affair with Chase Utley's wife?

Zvon Jul 09 2010 10:49 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I don't care if its true or not. Bad stuff about the Phils? PASS IT AROUND!

DocTee Jul 11 2010 09:07 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

I guess I'll post this one here. After all, I'm certainly above reposting dubiously-sourced rumors...well, maybe we can make an exception: Is Jayson Werth having an affair with Chase Utley's wife? A WATP From: "We Should Be GMs.com" Funny, but I'd like to know who Sucky and Hearing-Imapiredy are... Phils get: Cliff Lee Mets get: Jayson Werth Mariners get: Three useless Mets prospects kind of like Frenchy, Sucky, and Hearing-impairedy. Why it works: Ooh, a three way. Phils get pitching. Mariners get prospects. Mets get offense. Also, this is the perfect way to sabotage the Mets as Werth can start sleeping with David Wright's...or Jose Reyes'...or, aww crap, they're all gay. This won't work.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 11 2010 11:09 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Forgot to post this little nugget of phamily phun. (Level 2 phlummoxes me.)

Rockin' Doc Jul 24 2010 07:28 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

[url]http://www.youtube.com/v/ffWxVvHLwXM Just try pulling that ridiculous nonsense in Philadelphia. The part I find funny is that the idiot ignores and defies security, but quickly surrenders once the umpire talks to him. Most likely threatened an Orioles forfeit, by how quickly he gave up the chase. Hopefully, the idiot gets a short stay in jail along with a heavy fine and a lot community service work.

Edgy DC Jul 24 2010 08:06 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Not for nothing, but why don't they use dogs?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 24 2010 08:38 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

How about a long stay in jail and a burly cellmate?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 24 2010 09:09 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Prison rape's not the solution to everything, man.

Edgy DC Jul 24 2010 10:07 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Unless the cell is suspended next to the scoreboard, it won't act as an object lesson for the would-be fieldsprinters in the stadium. That guy in Baltimore was a folk hero of the drunk and stupid by the end of his dance, and you know there were dozens of half-lit-up attendees thinking, "You know, I'm going to try that shit someday." A coulple of terrifying takeouts by Zeus and Apollo will not only spare the security guards the indignity and the unwanted workout of having to pursue and tackle the merry pranksters, but it will be a terrifying cautionary tale to tens of thousands.

themetfairy Aug 02 2010 11:52 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Even the Phanatic isn't safe around these cretins! It's like cutting off the head of Jebediah Springfield.

Farmer Ted Aug 02 2010 03:27 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Thsi is the photo of the ugly thing. http://www.sportressofblogitude.com/wp- ... atue-3.jpg

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 18 2010 03:01 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

The fanbase ought to take a lesson in class from its heroes... Its fancy, fancy heroes. (You just know Hamels circles this day on the calendar every year.)

themetfairy Aug 18 2010 03:03 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: The fanbase ought to take a lesson in class from its heroes... Its fancy, fancy heroes. (You just know Hamels circles this day on the calendar every year.) Hey - it's hard to fault a charity fashion show. If the Mets had something like that, I'd be there....

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 18 2010 03:07 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Oh, I'm not saying they're wrong for doing it. I'm just saying... it's Jimmy Rollins in velvet.

themetfairy Aug 18 2010 03:26 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Oh, I'm not saying they're wrong for doing it. I'm just saying... it's Jimmy Rollins in velvet. LOL - true :)

Willets Point Aug 18 2010 06:02 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

They need a better photographer.

A Boy Named Seo Aug 18 2010 06:52 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Really digging Victorino's style. Certain I could be swimming in bitches, too, if I shave my head and start wearing some dope galoshes.

Edgy DC Aug 18 2010 08:31 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Don't you touch that mane.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 19 2010 12:06 PM Re: phils phans... always full of class

A far-too-modest proposal. If she actually says "yes," well... how does she tell that story to people without averting eye contact?

Edgy DC Dec 02 2010 08:07 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

The front page of the Washington Post today had a murderously depressing story of a father continuing to nurse his son, a Braves fan who remains in persistent vegetative state a year later after his friend yelled "Phillies suck!" and a Phillies Phan kicked his head in. Folks, don't yell about other people's teams sucking. Don't encourage those who do. And if somebody yells that your team sucks, for God's sake, count to ten.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 02 2010 09:04 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

Edgy DC wrote: The front page of the Washington Post today had a murderously depressing story of a father continuing to nurse his son, a Braves fan who remains in persistent vegetative state a year later after his friend yelled "Phillies suck!" and a Phillies Phan kicked his head in. Folks, don't yell about other people's teams sucking. Don't encourage those who do. And if somebody yells that your team sucks, for God's sake, count to ten. Jesus. Also reminds me of the adage, "if it hasn't happened after midnight, it's probably not going to happen."

attgig Dec 02 2010 09:17 AM Re: phils phans... always full of class

This is as depressing as you can get. so freakin sad. If you want to get a bit depressed, here's a link to the article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 04553.html just the picture gallery is pretty gutwrenching. a link to article in 1 page: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 53_pf.html