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Third

Edgy DC May 04 2010 02:15 PM

So where do we proceed on the Jose-batting-thoid experiment now that (a) he isn't showing much and (b) there seems no visible sunset to Beltran's absence? He's had three periods --- cold, hot, and cold again. His timing and form seem to be there, but where he's really showing his time off is his pitch selection, which seems akin to his early years. It seems pretty clear that they'd've done well to give him more rehab time, but that ship has sailed. How much longer are you willing to give him to show he can hack this? (Give me a number of games.)

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 04 2010 02:21 PM Re: Third

Every time I'm ready to send him back to the minors he smashes one into the gap and reminds me I probably shouldn't. He's not completely "right" yet, but I don't think it has much of anything to do with where he's hitting and I don't think I'd move him again lest we be ready to say that is a factor. I think we should be prepared to bat him 3rd the rest of the year. I'd abandon it only if it goes pure negative on us, like 15 solid games of it.

Gwreck May 04 2010 02:22 PM Re: Third

Splits: 56 PA at #1, .589 OPS. 42 PAs at #3, .587 OPS. I give him 8 more games (through the end of the upcoming homestand) and then reevaluate. My preferred lineup involves Castillo in the leadoff spot and I wouldn't be adverse to following him with Reyes, Wright, Bay, Francoeur as 2-5.

sharpie May 04 2010 02:22 PM Re: Third

I might reconsider if/when a healthy Beltran comes back, not til then.

Edgy DC May 04 2010 02:26 PM Re: Third

Yeah, I'm certainly not linking the lineup spot to his performance, but more worried about his performance from that spot and it's possible greater effect on the team's performance.

Frayed Knot May 04 2010 02:42 PM Re: Third

Predictably there are those just waiting to pounce on his lack of hitting and duct-tape it to the #3 slot. Problem is, not only don't I believe there's a connection but it's also not like his constant pop-ups are going to hurt less if he's hitting 1st or 2nd. The way he's hitting now he should be in the 8-slot but we know that's not going to happen. I always wanted him #2 anyway behind Luis but apparently that idea is a non-starter w/Jerry. Bottom line is that if he's swinging the way he's capable his bat will play almost anywhere and if not then it hardly matters where he's sucking at that moment. At this point I'd just let him hit himself out of his slow start in whatever position he's going to wind up in long-term.

TransMonk May 04 2010 03:09 PM Re: Third

I am of the opinion that the #3 hitter should be the best hitter on your team. While Jose is not a poor hitter, he is not our best hitter. I think/thought that Jose was too much of a dynamic player from the lead off spot to bat third. Everytime I see him pop-up another foul-out to the third baseman, I like this experiment even less. I would be OK with moving him back to leadoff at any time.

attgig May 04 2010 03:27 PM Re: Third

i hate having Wright batting 5th. In the late innings, I'd rather see Wright getting an extra at bat vs pagan/castillo/cora or whoever else Jerry sticks into the 1/2 holes. that's my biggest issue with this, ESPECIALLY when cora's starting over castillo and hits #2. I'd rather have the rest of the lineup get the extra at bat late in the game over cora...

batmagadanleadoff May 04 2010 05:32 PM Re: Third

Based on his career stats, Reyes should be batting second or third, given who the other current Mets starters are. But if you're going to decide this simply based on Reyes' last two weeks*, he should be batting fourteenth. I don't understand how the media and fans are getting so worked up over Reyes not batting leadoff, but practically ignore Matthews batting first, or Matthews starting. * I wouldn't, unless Reyes has developed some new condition, unbeknown to me (but not to those that are paid enough money that you'd think they'd notice these things), that has permanently diminished his skills.

TransMonk May 13 2010 07:21 AM Re: Third

I'm not sure how much longer I can watch a guy who's OPSing .590 hit in the #3 spot. I'm not saying he won't snap out of it, but statistically, Reyes has been the crappiest starter on the squadron...and the sample sizes keep getting bigger. There is starting to be a big difference between "he's not the best guy for the job right now" and "he's the worst guy for the job right now".

Edgy DC May 13 2010 07:34 AM Re: Third

TransMonk wrote: but statistically, Reyes has been the crappiest starter on the squadron...and the sample sizes keep getting bigger. Don't be fooled. Jeff Francouer's OPS the last 28 days .446 Jeff Francouer's OPS the last 14 days .442 Jeff Francouer's OPS the last 7 days .279 Frightful. Definitely not a candidate to bat third. I'm ready to try. Castillo Reyes Wright Davis (Yup.) Bay Barajas Pagan Francoeur I know I'm over-rewarding Wright's whiffiness, and otherwise making too much of recent results but that's where I'm at. Got to throw some of Francoeur's starts to Carter.

TransMonk May 13 2010 07:42 AM Re: Third

Agreed on all points. Frenchy's been dreadful lately.

Ceetar May 13 2010 07:44 AM Re: Third

(b) there seems no visible sunset to Beltran's absence? David Lennon reported yesterday that that sun might actually begin to set. but the premise remains the same, we don't know if it will _actually_ set. I was a big proponent of bringing back Reyes as soon as humanly possible, was annoyed at the baby pace they set for him, and felt it was better him getting into shape with the Mets and that half of Reyes was still better than Cora. I'm wondering if that was foolish now and that maybe Reyes should've had a whole nother week or two. Despite him playing what would've been a full set of Spring Training games now, he still appears to be one step behind, and I wonder if the rush to get ready at the major league level has him stuck behind the 8-ball and had him develope some bad habits. Sort of like never getting enough sleep and just downing coffee all day. You may function, but you're never quite functional until you get that rest. Reyes had to ask for a day off a couple of weeks ago he was so worn out, and he came back off that very well. Sometimes it seems like he identifies the pitch, knows he should smash it, and just misses and pops it up. I dunno. I also wonder if, despite supposedly being told to not do anything differently, he's trying to do more batting 3rd, even subconsciously based on the having runners on more often. Added pressure while he's already trying to catch up. it's not like it's a DL stint and he has to play 15 games in the 3rd spot. I don't think anythings going to be too screwed up if he took a series off of Reyes batting third, or if he didn't bat Cora second when he gives Castillo one of his too many days off. Last year he bounced guys ar ound the lineup too much (probably neccersitated by injury party) this year he's stubbornly sticking to what he's decided. Even though he suggested Barajas could move up on Tuesday, he didn't do it. What's he waiting for, Barajas to get cold again?

metsguyinmichigan May 13 2010 07:46 AM Re: Third

I have no problem moving up Barajas. He's probably seeing crappy pitches batting in front of the pitcher -- and still hitting some bombs.

metirish May 13 2010 07:46 AM Re: Third

We now know what Kiner thinks Kiner blasts Reyes batting third Ralph Kiner was in the broadcast booth this afternoon and was highly critical of Jose Reyes' placement in the batting order. He said the shortstop is ``not a third place hitter in any regards.'' When Gary Cohen asked him who should bat third, Kiner responded, ``There's the answer right there, we don't have one.'' Keith Hernandez added some levity, suggesting the dead guy from ``Weekend at Bernie's.'' Kiner was pictured wearing sunglasses (saying he just returned from Florida) and talked about the cold, damp day in New York. He said in his playing days hitters would ``hold their bats over briquettes.’' Kids, don't try that at home. Especially with aluminum.

Ceetar May 13 2010 07:52 AM Re: Third

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I have no problem moving up Barajas. He's probably seeing crappy pitches batting in front of the pitcher -- and still hitting some bombs. I wouldn't bat him 4th or 5th. but 6th or 7th? sure, couple more RBIs that way. (btw, the Mets have 1 3-run home run, Wright at Philly, and no grand slams) But wouldn't it have made sense to do this earlier in the week while he was hot, and not wait until he cooled off?

Edgy DC May 13 2010 07:56 AM Re: Third

Maybe, but until I can find a way to generate the 1.21 gigawatts of electricity, I can only deal with the here and now.

Ceetar May 13 2010 08:01 AM Re: Third

Edgy DC wrote: Maybe, but until I can find a way to generate the 1.21 gigawatts of electricity, I can only deal with the here and now. If we do find a way, Monday would not be my first choice of destinations. I might want to get the '06 Mets bullpen coach a pair of binoculars to let Beltran know about the curve first. but speaking of things Manuel said tuesday but didn't do yet, is he going to start GMJ a couple of games against the Marlins, and worse yet, is he going to have him leadoff?

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 13 2010 08:17 AM Re: Third

Well. I'm about ready to give in and let Reyes have his stinky leadoff slot back and move Pagan to 3rd. My reasoning is, if Pagan were hitting as bad as Reyes and Reyes as good as Pagan, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

Swan Swan H May 13 2010 08:34 AM Re: Third

Castillo Reyes Davis Wright Bay Pagan Francoeur The Throbster

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 13 2010 10:10 AM Re: Third

Swan Swan H wrote: Castillo Reyes Davis Wright Bay Pagan Francoeur The Throbster Hmm. HMM.

Fman99 May 13 2010 10:27 AM Re: Third

You won't see Castillo hitting leadoff, ever, if he can help it. He has an aversion to hitting in that spot... even during his halcyon days in Florida he hit second behind Juan Pierre.

Edgy DC May 13 2010 10:33 AM Re: Third

Don't be silly. He's batted leadoff more than any other batting position in his career.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 13 2010 10:42 AM Re: Third

I thought so. That would be weird, considering his only offensive talent-- ever-- has been getting on base, whether with the slapping or the taking.

batmagadanleadoff May 13 2010 11:06 AM Re: Third

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I thought so. That would be weird, considering his only offensive talent-- ever-- has been getting on base, whether with the slapping or the taking. But that's some neat trick! Even with Castillo's best years presumably behind him, he's still on-basing better than almost every other Met. Ike (just slightly) and Wright are the only Mets with better OBP's. That Jerry Randolph is not batting Castillo leadoff and also, using Castillo --one of the likeliest Mets to get on base and thus, not make an out-- to make intentional outs by sac bunting (and, immediately before the heart of the Mets order, no less) might be the most inefficient use of Mets resources. It's criminal.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 13 2010 11:49 AM Re: Third

batmagadanleadoff wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I thought so. That would be weird, considering his only offensive talent-- ever-- has been getting on base, whether with the slapping or the taking. But that's some neat trick! Even with Castillo's best years presumably behind him, he's still on-basing better than almost every other Met. Ike (just slightly) and Wright are the only Mets with better OBP's. That Jerry Randolph is not batting Castillo leadoff and also, using Castillo --one of the likeliest Mets to get on base and thus, not make an out-- to make intentional outs by sac bunting (and, immediately before the heart of the Mets order, no less) might be the most inefficient use of Mets resources. It's criminal. To be fair-- and it pains me as far as Goatee McBullpenabuse is concerned-- it kinda seems like he hasn't bunted with Castillo nearly as often as last year. My eyes may deceive me, granted.

Ceetar May 13 2010 12:00 PM Re: Third

That's because he rests Castillo for Cora roughly once a series so far going back 4-5 of them. so less AB means it seems like less bunts. Also, leadoff hitter seems to be on (first) a little less often so far. From april 28th - may 6th, that's 9 days, Castillo played 4 of them.