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Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

Edgy DC May 12 2010 08:16 AM

Mostly, they're thoughts on grinding. [list][*]He may have come within inches of a grand slam, but statistically, Ike Davis had a wretched game, leaving a small army on base. Kudos to him for staying in it until the end to make his tumblesnatch. [/*:m] [*]I mentioned this in the IGT, I think (maybe elsewhere) but Jose Reyes may be the opposite of a grinder --- a great guy to have around when things are swinging up, but a killer when things are down. [/*:m] [*]Speaking of emotions, I hoep David Wright doesn't let his strikeout detract from the fact that he was the PotG, keeping them in it until the big rally happened. [/*:m] [*]This isn't the first time a tournequet from Takahashi has gotten the Mets back into one, and I wonder how much the alienation of the Japanese player makes them ideal for that sort of zen detachment duty. I mean, the challenge is to get yourself up when the team is something to get down about, but these guys have that challenge every day, 5,500 miles from home, seperated by language from their peers, and having left an environment where they were famous heroes to play in a place where they are so anonymous that Met announcers repeatedly get confused whether it's Igarashi or Takahashi getting up in the pen. [/*:m] [*]Jim Riggleman has suddenly given me the power to control my angst about Jerry Manuel. I mean, we're stacked with righties, but struggling to connect against lefty Olsen, and Reggaemon pulls him AFTER 82 PITCHES WITH ONE OUT IN THE SIXTH INNING! Nice, this gives the Mets leave to turn some hitters around and set up to use the big shot new lefty off the bench. It even gives Ike a shot at grandslamminess. But mostly, it takes a $4 million 3.50 ERA pitcher pitching well and replaces him with a $650 thousand 5.15 ERA one who may or may not have it. Thanks again, Jim. I mean, with a 6-1 lead, one out and one runner on, they pull the guy to set up a righthander against Frenchman. Big whoop, the guy has been handling the righties all day, and bam, fuck off. Maybe, he wants to take his back-end bullpenners and "get them going" but congratulations on wasting a fine performance by a very talented douchebag starting pitcher. I mean --- what I mean is --- you shouldn't have to have everybody going, top to bottom, in order to succeed. It's a good value, but not such a high-priority one. The idea of reserves used to be to hold them in reserve and not let them ruin a perfectly good win. He didn't pull starting hitters to get bench players going. Joe Torre, to his credit, seemed to understand this with the Yankes. The back end of his bullpen was occupied by failed starters and failed relievers and if they couldn't get themselves turned around by the scrap innings Torre threw them every ten days, it was on them. [/*:m] [*]Back to the Mets. You see a game like this, you wonder if this team has a leader or is one emerging. I don't know. Could be interesting. [/*:m] [*]Yeah, I agreed with whoever it was in the IGT who said that, if Ike's homer was fair, that Rodriguez or Valdes should have finished up, but for the love of all that is decent, give Nieve a break. [/*:m] [*]The team nonetheless won a game without using Feliciano or Nieve. It probably isn't the first time this has happened this year, but it sure feels like it. [/*:m] [*]Now both are available today. (Not that they aren't always available, but presumably they're that much fresher.) [/*:m] [*]It would be really great to build on this win and take today's game.[/*:m][/list:u]

Fman99 May 12 2010 08:27 AM Re: Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

Does anyone want to join my new boy band, "Tumblesnatch?"

Gwreck May 12 2010 08:27 AM Re: Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

Edgy DC wrote: The team nonetheless won a game without using Feliciano or Nieve. It probably isn't the first time this has happened this year, but it sure feels like it. Wins without Nieve or Feliciano: April 25 vs. ATL (5 inning rain-shortened win) April 27 vs. LAD (game 2 of DH; they both pitched game 1) April 30 vs. PHI (9-1 drubbing) and last night. That's it.

soupcan May 12 2010 08:38 AM Re: Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

Thoughts on Edgy's Thoughts: - I read the whole post but after 'Tumblesnatch' I lost focus. - I think you're selling the Japanese players short. They're pro athletes, as are all the players and since they've been pro they've all had to deal with being far from home and dealing with unfamiliar cultures. I don't think the Japs have cornered the market on detachment. You may have something with the Zen thing though. - Riggleman changing pitchers with a 5 run lead at Citi and the Mets looking pretty lethargic. I can see why he did it but I'm a Mets fan. If I'm a Nats fan, I'm bullshit this morning. - If they take today's game and continue the home dominance they've begun to show then the team starts to believe that Citi is in fact a decided adavantage for them. Only good things follow.

Ceetar May 12 2010 08:44 AM Re: Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

I believe Nieve warmed up though, but I don't recall seeing Feliciano (not that easy to see the bullpen from my seat). Mejia, despite people saying they shouldn't push the young 'starter' too many days in a row, also warmed up. Couldn't have let Valdes finish up as he was replaced by Carter. Probably would've been Frankie anyway, he hasn't pitched in a couple of days right? I felt like the Mets were getting chances against Olsen, and erasing themselves on DPs, but I was definitely surprised they pulled him there. The place was completely empty. Especially by the 8th inning. I was flipping out during Ike Davis' home run. I was first row 507, by first base, so I had no perception of it. I saw it hit the stairwell which is in fair territory, and Ike certainly looked like he got it. I think that was the first time I was at a review game, but I'm not sure. It certainly loses some of the dramatic effect. I remember Piazza's 3-run home run to cap the 10 run rally against the Braves on June 30th, 2000 and this would've felt kinda similiar. Oh well, I saw him and the ball angling towards the dugout to end the game and all I could think was "Again? AGAIN?!?!" as he's running over there. Shame I was too much in disbelief to raise my camera. The comeback should be good for their confidence. Just to know that they can, and will, fight back does mean something. I think David Wright and probably Bay as well really need to hit a ball that doesn't feel like a home run but carries over the fence. (The ball was really hanging up yesterday) Would do a lot for their power confidence I think, if that's actually something that bothers them. I know David Wright clobbered one early in the season at citi Field that just got too high and died on the track but probably would've left Citizen's Bank Park. (actually left the building he hit the thing so hard) The defense has to be commended. the last time that Bay made an error the Phillies hadn't even won the division yet in 2008. Wright hasn't made an error in 15 games. They've played the iffy wind amazingly well compared to the other teams, and that helps make Citi an advantage and a 10th man to the opposing team.

Edgy DC May 12 2010 08:52 AM Re: Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

And how huge was Desmond's error in getting that rally off the ground?

Ceetar May 12 2010 08:55 AM Re: Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

Edgy DC wrote: And how huge was Desmond's error in getting that rally off the ground? I would love to see a stat on runs scored after an error sorted by team. The Mets seem to have done pretty well punishing opponents this year.

metirish May 12 2010 09:05 AM Re: Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

I coming to the conclusion that Reyes is not smart enough to hit third. I don't say that lightly , he has the talent but I don't think he has the brain for it.

TransMonk May 12 2010 09:23 AM Re: Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

metirish wrote: I coming to the conclusion that Reyes is not smart enough to hit third. I don't say that lightly , he has the talent but I don't think he has the brain for it. I don't know if I'd word it that way, but I think I agree. To go further, I think he looks way smarter (or less confused) batting leadoff.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 12 2010 10:14 AM Re: Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

-- Does it make me a bad person that I enjoyed Riggleman's Manueling of the relief situation so much? (Or, rather, that I enjoyed the result?) -- That Desmond error? Huge. But I like him with the glove aside from that... and he's better with the bat. He seems like he may be around a while. TransMonk wrote: I coming to the conclusion that Reyes is not smart enough to hit third. I don't say that lightly , he has the talent but I don't think he has the brain for it. I don't know if I'd word it that way, but I think I agree. To go further, I think he looks way smarter (or less confused) batting leadoff. He definitely handles himself at the plate like he's talked himself into being a different sort of hitter. I find myself wishing that one could hypnotize him into taking the same approach he did over the last three years to the #3 slot. I wonder if a move to #2 would help. Maybe the "contact" slot means that he's more judicious about making non-power-type contact... Which brings me to a thing that applies to Jose, but isn't Jose-exclusive: I'm not sure if it's HoJo (preaching aggression?), but it seems like a LOT of players are swinging through pitches in the zone AND chasing stuff outside of it. As I've been hipdeep in formula and Huggies, I haven't gotten hipdeep in the Fangraphs swing numbers, but I'm thinking they have to bear this out.

Frayed Knot May 12 2010 10:38 AM Re: Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

Also, near perfect fill-in type work from Cora. - Came in as a PH and worked a walk - Later helped build a rally with a Gee-Or-geous bunt single (something I was thinking about just before he did it) - and threw in a nifty defensive play I think between Riggleman & his pitching coach they make more trips to the mound than Posada. Well, maybe than Girardi, nobody makes more than Posada.

metirish May 12 2010 11:23 AM Re: Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: -- Does it make me a bad person that I enjoyed Riggleman's Manueling of the relief situation so much? (Or, rather, that I enjoyed the result?) -- That Desmond error? Huge. But I like him with the glove aside from that... and he's better with the bat. He seems like he may be around a while. I coming to the conclusion that Reyes is not smart enough to hit third. I don't say that lightly , he has the talent but I don't think he has the brain for it. I don't know if I'd word it that way, but I think I agree. To go further, I think he looks way smarter (or less confused) batting leadoff. He definitely handles himself at the plate like he's talked himself into being a different sort of hitter. I find myself wishing that one could hypnotize him into taking the same approach he did over the last three years to the #3 slot. I wonder if a move to #2 would help. Maybe the "contact" slot means that he's more judicious about making non-power-type contact... Which brings me to a thing that applies to Jose, but isn't Jose-exclusive: I'm not sure if it's HoJo (preaching aggression?), but it seems like a LOT of players are swinging through pitches in the zone AND chasing stuff outside of it. As I've been hipdeep in formula and Huggies, I haven't gotten hipdeep in the Fangraphs swing numbers, but I'm thinking they have to bear this out. This thread is getting of point but here is part of my problem and maybe Reyes too.....the whole move was botched to begin with....a move down in the order nearly turned into Piazza moving to first base, except here we had weeks of speculation that turned turned in to a "will he , won't he" be hitting third. Manuel then tells Jose to change nothing , to go up there with the same mentality he has hitting first, yet people like Keith and Joe Morgan who know hitting say that's it's different and the player needs to adjust. Reyes looks completely lost , and another thing too. Manuel talks about Bay and says things like "well I never saw him before so I don't know what to tell him to get things going"....you fucking kidding me... watch a video ...OK so those are not his exact words but the point was that having never coached Bay he's lost in how to help him.

Rockin' Doc May 12 2010 07:08 PM Re: Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

Jerry Manuel is lost on far more topics than simply Jason Bay's slow start at the plate. I gave Manuel a pass for much of last year due to the proliferation of injuries that decimated the Mets personnel. However, this season the team is essentially intact other than Beltran and I see little that encourages me in his in game maneuvers. I have essentially lost faith in his ability to manage this team to the best of their abilities.

G-Fafif May 12 2010 09:01 PM Re: Thoughts on the Game, 5/11

Satoru Komiyama lacked zen detachment. And the ability to retire batters.