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Beltran Running

Centerfield May 13 2010 07:40 AM

Pain free supposedly. The full article is on Newsday, but I can't read it because they're a bunch of douchebags and want to charge you.

TransMonk May 13 2010 07:44 AM Re: Beltran Running

That's great news, if true. Not that I don't believe Lennon's headline, but I can't/won't read Newsday either, and it's not as if we haven't had mixed updates on Beltran as lately as last week.

Chad Ochoseis May 13 2010 07:46 AM Re: Beltran Running

PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. - Carlos Beltran finally is running again, and with the strides he made Wednesday - both literally and figuratively - the All-Star centerfielder is hopeful that he ultimately can avoid microfracture surgery and rejoin the Mets before too long. Beltran, wearing a brace on his right knee, ran four loops along the warning track, starting in the rightfield corner and finishing at home plate. He only began the running program on Monday, but by the fourth lap, Beltran had increased the pace from jogging to longer, more purposeful strides. Beltran believes he could be sprinting by the end of next week, which would lead to running the bases soon after. But for now, he's pleased to be running without pain - especially after he could not last for a minute on a treadmill only three weeks earlier during a checkup at the Steadman-Hawkins Clinic in Colorado. "Thank God there's no pain," Beltran said at the Mets' minor-league complex. "It's a learning process for me to start running again, so right now I'm thinking about how to make it perfect. Today was the first day I ran and didn't have to think about it. I was happy with today. Today was a pretty good day." Otherwise, Beltran says he is in great shape and has dropped 10 pounds since the start of spring training. He took batting practice off a machine Wednesdayon Field 4 and easily smacked balls over the fence from both sides of the plate. When an instructor told Beltran to treat the final 20 swings as game situations, he went 10-for-10 with seven home runs from the right side. After switching to the left, Beltran went 7-for-10 with five homers, and two caromed off the roof of a utility shed well beyond the rightfield fence. "Hitting I feel fine," Beltran said. "I'm in the greatest shape of my career because I've never worked as hard as I have during this rehab. I'm just looking forward to getting out of here, man. I want to be with the boys. I know they're fighting and they're playing better baseball. I believe with me being on the team, I can help." Beltran revealed that he was given the option of having microfracture surgery this winter, but chose the arthroscopic procedure to "clean out" his right knee instead. Beltran said that microfracture surgery requires a nine-month rehab process before beginning baseball activity and that would have wiped out the entire 2010 season. "They told me, we want to try everything before that," Beltran said. "Before that we're going to try everything from A to Z, different things that we believe can help you. It's been a slow, slow progress, but it's been progress, that's what I'm happy about." Beltran also said the doctors in Colorado determined that his left leg was longer than his right and gave him orthotics to help align his knees. The knee brace is helpful now during rehab, but Beltran hopes to shed it once he's ready to play again. "Right now, it's hard for me to set a date because I'm not doing a lot yet," Beltran said. "It's encouraging because I don't feel the pain. Once I start running the bases, I think I will have a better time frame to when I can be helping the team."

Ceetar May 13 2010 07:46 AM Re: Beltran Running

I won't believe it until he's actually playing in rehab games pain free. And he's not running all out yet, but I'm glad to see even a small sign that his career is not over. Bah, you beat me to it.

Edgy DC May 13 2010 07:49 AM Re: Beltran Running

I'm more than a little afraid what we get is going to be a Reyes-like fraction of the man, though. I have trouble approaching New York tabloids since I saw Bill Madden speculating about George Steinbrenner's sex life. Deep chills.

Ceetar May 13 2010 07:50 AM Re: Beltran Running

Beltran revealed that he was given the option of having microfracture surgery this winter, but chose the arthroscopic procedure to "clean out" his right knee instead. Beltran said that microfracture surgery requires a nine-month rehab process before beginning baseball activity and that would have wiped out the entire 2010 season. This is the biggie. And from what I've heard it seems like the nine-months is just a guideline, it could be worse, and it could be career-threatening because it's still pretty experimental, and it could inhibit his ability to actually run as hard and as well as he used to, meaning reduced range and what not. Right now there is no raeson to think he can't play CF if he doesn't get teh surgery. But the 9 months thing suggests that we will know a lot more very soon. If Beltran cannot progress soon, he'll almost have to opt for the surgery to be back in time for the 2010 season. If that's the case though, the Mets _have_ to look for another CF, because you have no idea what will be up with Beltran, and you won't know before Spring Training. But cross that bridge when we come to it.

Centerfield May 13 2010 08:55 AM Re: Beltran Running

Beltran is being pretty candid there. Up until now, the company line is that Beltran did not need, and was not a candidate for micro-fracture surgery, despite all of the evidence pointing to the contrary. It seems pretty clear that it was all bullshit now. Given this, it's hard to understand the team's handling of this injury. First of all, the bone bruises came about because of the lack of cartilage. There was no collision, no freak play, no other impetus other than day-to-day wear and tear that caused the injury. Resting is fine, but it was silly not to think that the bone bruises would not return when he began playing again. If up to me, I would have had this surgery last season and had a clean bill of health for 2010. They did not. Instead, they brought him back to play in meaningless games. The only rational reason for this would be to see how he reacted once the bone bruises healed (i.e., would they come back?). He played, the bone bruises returned. He had to shut it down. At that point, having seen the bone bruises develop in the first place because of lack of cartilage, resting only to have them come back again (because there is still no cartilage), it is foolish not to have the micro-fracture surgery at that time. Beltran complained of it during fall. Micro-fracture would have sidelined him for a part of 2010, but he might have been healthy enough to return with a clean bill of health for the second half. Again, they opted against the surgery. Now, it appears that the delay in his return is not necessarily surgery related, but that the bone bruises have not yet healed (from last fall). He says he is healthy, and running pain free, but it's hard not to believe that they won't reappear once he starts going full throttle. (I'm happy to be proven wrong here, but it seems inevitable to me). My guess is that he comes back around the All-Star break, shuts it down again in August or September, and then ultimately opts for micro-fracture surgery. I just hope this happens in time to salvage some part of 2011.

TransMonk May 13 2010 09:03 AM Re: Beltran Running

I still think the Mets need to go the rest of 2010 and 2011 with the mindset that Beltran is not and will not be available to them and that any positive contribution we receive from him during that time will be gravy. "Treading water" until he comes back seems like putting a bunch of cracked and rotten eggs into one basket.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 13 2010 09:08 AM Re: Beltran Running

Beltran can bite me.

Ceetar May 13 2010 09:09 AM Re: Beltran Running

Well microfracture surgery isn't something to be taken lightly. And it's not as exact a science or a sure thing as say, tommy john surgery. No saying that the Beltran before it and the Beltran after it are the same caliber of player or that his knees will be "good as new" These bruises may very well be the same bruises from early last year, not reappeared ones from August/September. Some are healing at better rates than others. Sometimes the bruises won't even hurt him or pose any risk, and he can just play. He recently had an injection if I recall, prior to putting the brace on, to create lubrication, so I suspect that's why he's feeling no pain now, and maybe that will help them to heal. If he could get them healed, and monitored, it might be a manageable situation. I have no idea if that lubrication injection thingy is something he can do frequently, or it poses a risk of some sort. I also wonder now if the disagreement in the offseason was not over having surgery, but which surgery to have. Beltran's being very candid now though, and I don't blame him. It's a terrible situation for him, contracts and money aside. He's prematurely facing what could be the end of his career and a serious knee issue that no matter how hard he works he is incapable of fixing on his own. and I agree, you can't tread water and hope for Beltran to return. I like Pagan, but if Beltran doesn't show serious progress in the next month or so, you pretty much have to move on without him.

Gwreck May 13 2010 09:13 AM Re: Beltran Running

The problem with microfracture surgery is that if it's what Beltran truly needs, AND we want him available for 2011, he needs that NOW. Or within the next two months. --- One factor that I haven't seen mentioned too much is that Beltran's contract is up following the 2011 season. A healthy Beltran -- who'll be 35 in April 2012 -- stands to be able to get one final big contact in the 2011-12 offseason, and I can't believe Carlos and Scott Boras haven't considered this, knowing that he'll have to be on the field and producing in 2011 if he wants more bucks that offseason.

Ceetar May 13 2010 09:15 AM Re: Beltran Running

I've seen the contract situation mentioned a lot actually. If that was Beltran's main consideration I'd have to believe he'd have had the surgery in January.

TransMonk May 13 2010 09:24 AM Re: Beltran Running

I have to think, even with the best case scenario involving his recovery, he will most certainly not be a Met in 2012. More likely an AL DH. I'd almost like to start thinking about finding a replacement for him now...unless we think Pagan is the long term answer.

Ceetar May 13 2010 09:29 AM Re: Beltran Running

TransMonk wrote: I have to think, even with the best case scenario involving his recovery, he will most certainly not be a Met in 2012. More likely an AL DH. I'd almost like to start thinking about finding a replacement for him now...unless we think Pagan is the long term answer. that right now I'm not going to worry about. I'm just going to pretend that he'll come back healthyin a couple of weeks and in the 2012 offseason we're talking about moving him to RF and not letting him get away after two amazing post season performances.

MFS62 May 13 2010 09:31 AM Re: Beltran Running

Here's something I found about bone bruises: http://www.ehow.com/about_4586120_bone-bruising.html A few things I found interesting: It can be misdiagnosed as a fracture. It is very painful, "especially for an athlete". There is no harm to the bone itself. It can heal "relatively quickly". The fact that his recovery has taken so long is still a head-scratcher to me. But now that he's running, I'm optimistic that he can return, and be productive, this year. Later

Benjamin Grimm May 13 2010 09:33 AM Re: Beltran Running

I agree with Monk. I'll be glad to get whatever we can out of Beltran over the next year and a half, but if an appealing long-term replacement becomes available before Carlos' contract runs out, I think you have to do what you can to secure him.

Edgy DC May 13 2010 09:35 AM Re: Beltran Running

I think they're certainly working to grow his replacement.

attgig May 13 2010 09:36 AM Re: Beltran Running

MFS62 wrote: The fact that his recovery has taken so long is still a head-scratcher to me. But now that he's running, I'm optimistic that he can return, and be productive, this year. guessing that the stuff in the joint that was cleaned up in january kept aggravating it. After surgery, there's recovery time, and therapy to make sure that all the scar tissue goes away from the incisions, etc.

Benjamin Grimm May 13 2010 09:37 AM Re: Beltran Running

Edgy DC wrote: I think they're certainly working to grow his replacement. Who are the center fielders in the pipeline?

Edgy DC May 13 2010 09:41 AM Re: Beltran Running

Other thread, but they've got legit prospects at almost every level, if you count Martinez as a centerfielder, and while he wouldn't be expected to excel there, he can certainly hack it.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 13 2010 09:57 AM Re: Beltran Running

"Captain" Kirk Neuwenhuis, presumably.

attgig May 13 2010 10:40 AM Re: Beltran Running

I doubt fmart gets a chance at CF. looking at the other outfielders according to cot's when beltran's contract is up: Bobby Abreu LAA * Jose Bautista TOR Carlos Beltran NYM Milton Bradley SEA Mike Cameron BOS Ronny Cedeno PIT Ryan Church PIT Jack Cust OAK Matt Diaz ATL J.D. Drew BOS Jeff Francouer NYM Jonny Gomes CIN Gabe Gross OAK Carlos Guillen DET Corey Hart MIL Jeremy Hermida BOS Raul Ibanez PHI Conor Jackson ARZ Ryan Ludwick STL Gary Matthews Jr. NYM Nate McLouth ATL * Juan Pierre CWS Juan Rivera LAA Cody Ross FLA Grady Sizemore CLE * Nick Swisher NYY * Josh Willingham WAS nobody that compelling there either.... Helloooo Angel!

Gwreck May 13 2010 10:43 AM Re: Beltran Running

Grady Sizemore is more than compelling, but that asterisk means there's a club option for 2012.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 13 2010 10:45 AM Re: Beltran Running

And virtually none of 'em are center-field-experienced (or center-field-able, for that matter). Cody Ross, anyone?

Edgy DC May 13 2010 10:50 AM Re: Beltran Running

I really don't think we can genterate a meaningful picture of December 2012 in May 2010, though.

Ashie62 May 14 2010 03:47 PM Re: Beltran Running

No we can't, but speculating has a certain charm to it.

Nymr83 May 14 2010 04:18 PM Re: Beltran Running

MFS62 wrote: Here's something I found about bone bruises: http://www.ehow.com/about_4586120_bone-bruising.html A few things I found interesting: It can be misdiagnosed as a fracture. It is very painful, "especially for an athlete". There is no harm to the bone itself. It can heal "relatively quickly". The fact that his recovery has taken so long is still a head-scratcher to me. But now that he's running, I'm optimistic that he can return, and be productive, this year. Later i've had bone bruises on two fingers at different times. -they werent really too painful, i'm not sure how exactly to explain levels of pain, but if i say i didnt take any pain relievers hopefully that will get the point across -both felt fine and were fully functional in under a month -this may have nothig to do with bone bruises on other parts of the body

Nymr83 May 14 2010 04:20 PM Re: Beltran Running

Maybe we could replace him with Gary Matthews jr. ::ducks::

Edgy DC May 28 2010 10:16 AM Re: Beltran Running

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article ... star-break. Mets' Beltran likely out till after All-Star break Sporting News staff reports Friday, May. 28, 2010 - 11:06 a.m. ET Mets center fielder Carlos Beltran, still progressing slowly from offseason knee surgery, might not be ready to return to the lineup until mid-July. General manager Omar Minaya told the New York Daily News that Beltran still hasn't been cleared to resume "full baseball activities" and will need 4-6 weeks from the point when he is cleared to do so until the time he can make his 2010 Mets debut. Beltran is doing some running and taking some swings but isn't doing any sprinting. Beltran hit .325 with 10 homers and 48 RBIs last season, but he was limited to 81 games. The Sporting News still has a staff?

Benjamin Grimm May 28 2010 10:34 AM Re: Beltran Running

I remember when I thought a mid-May return was pessimistic.

Edgy DC Jun 01 2010 09:23 PM Re: Beltran Running

Beltran has supposedly texted Carton that he is running and 80-90% and expects to play rehab games as early as next week. The Mets are not confirming.

Chad Ochoseis Jun 02 2010 06:15 AM Re: Beltran Running

If Joe Petruccio says it, that's good enough for me.

Gwreck Jun 04 2010 03:39 PM Re: Beltran Running

2 for 6 as DH in extended spring training game today.

TransMonk Jun 04 2010 03:53 PM Re: Beltran Running

Per Metsblog, Jerry says we can start the clock. Until he's running bases and playing the field, I'm still not buying it.

Zvon Jun 04 2010 04:01 PM Re: Beltran Running

I'm dreaming of this scenario where he comes back and plays for the rest of the season the way he played during that lil stretch for the Astros during the '05 post season.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 04 2010 04:03 PM Re: Beltran Running

I guess Grady Sizemore has the same knee thing and underwent the microfracture surgery today. Edit: yup. Cleveland Indians Grady Sizemore done for season; will need 6 to 9 months to recover from knee surgery By Paul Hoynes, The Plain Dealer June 04, 2010, 5:57PM CHICAGO, Ill. -- Grady Sizemore is done for the season and then some. Sizemore, the face of the Indians franchise, underwent mircrofracture surgery on his left knee tody in Vail, Colo. He will miss six to months. A release by the Indians said Sizemore is expected to play in Cactus League games next spring. Dr. Richard Steadman performed the surgery in Vail, Colo. It was an arthroscopic procedure that took 90 minutes. The Indians said Steadman wouldn't know the extent of the injury until he started operating. This had to be their worst case scenario. Microfracture surgery involves drilling small holes in the hole to promote the growth of cartilage. The Indians said the cartilage under Sizemore's knee cap was unstable after he injured the knee diving back into a base in April and re-injured on May 16 in Baltimore. Sizemore missed most of September last year with surgery on his left elbow and left groin.

Zvon Jun 13 2010 10:00 PM Re: Beltran Running

Wallpaper size: [url]http://picasaweb.google.com/102387599896928448637/ZvonsPics2010#slideshow/5482708456706670242

Ceetar Jun 22 2010 02:12 PM Re: Beltran Running

Looks like Beltran will continue running...in real games starting Thursday for St. Lucie. according the Minaya on SNY.

seawolf17 Jun 22 2010 02:28 PM Re: Beltran Running

And the 20-day clock starts, according to every person in my Twitter feed.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 22 2010 02:37 PM Re: Beltran Running

Running Beltran, running free... see the Beltran, playing in a real game!

Ceetar Jun 22 2010 02:39 PM Re: Beltran Running

seawolf17 wrote: And the 20-day clock starts, according to every person in my Twitter feed. well doesn't start officially until thursday. Latest he'd be able to be back would be 7/15 right after the break. Also a good two weeks to analyze and trade Frenchy for pitching.

seawolf17 Jun 22 2010 02:41 PM Re: Beltran Running

Disagree. Trade Pagan for pitching.

Edgy DC Jun 22 2010 02:42 PM Re: Beltran Running

Disagree. Trade nobody for nobody.

seawolf17 Jun 22 2010 02:44 PM Re: Beltran Running

I'm just saying IF you're going to trade someone, it's Pagan.

Edgy DC Jun 22 2010 02:45 PM Re: Beltran Running

If I'm going to trade somebody, it's Feliciano.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 22 2010 02:49 PM Re: Beltran Running

20 days? I thought they had said it would take six weeks after he started baseball activities. Would that have been 22 days ago?

Ceetar Jun 22 2010 02:50 PM Re: Beltran Running

Benjamin Grimm wrote: 20 days? I thought they had said it would take six weeks after he started baseball activities. Would that have been 22 days ago? the "baseball activities" line has been pissing me off since like January. What's it mean?!?! I assume it must have encompassed the DHing and hitting and light running and 3innings of field work he's been doing.

OlerudOwned Jun 22 2010 08:00 PM Re: Beltran Running

seawolf17 wrote: I'm just saying IF you're going to trade someone, it's Pagan. Then who would play right field?

Edgy DC Jun 22 2010 08:53 PM Re: Beltran Running

I hope you're all prepared to be fielding "They're better off without him" comments.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 22 2010 08:57 PM Re: Beltran Running

Edgy DC wrote: I hope you're all prepared to be fielding "They're better off without him" comments. Been prepared. Already have had that conversation with ostensible fans at work. Along with he's-not-a-2010-kind-of-player bullstink.

Edgy DC Jun 23 2010 07:31 AM Re: Beltran Running

Manuel made it clear before Tuesday's game with the Detroit Tigers that Beltran will not see any time on the corners. The Mets' initial plan is to have Pagan -- who can play all three outfield spots -- get significant playing time in left and in right. Hey, Andrew Marchand, way to go!

TransMonk Jun 23 2010 07:53 AM Re: Beltran Running

He's saying that Beltran's doubled 2009 (.325, 20 HR, 96 RBI) is better, but not that much better than Pagan's projected 2010 (.296, 10 HR, 74 RBI)? Double the HRs and 30% more RBI is that much better. Especially when your RF is Francouer. Granted, these are all phantom stats, but Marchand brought them to the table. A doubled 2009 Beltran would also have over 100 points more OPS than Pagan's projected 2010. I love the way that Pagan has played this year. I'm also going to be suspicious of Beltran's ability until he is actually playing MLB games. But, sorry Andy, a genuinely healthy Beltran is better than Angel Pagan in every way, IMO.

Edgy DC Jun 23 2010 07:58 AM Re: Beltran Running

And a modestly healthy Beltran is better than Francoeur and (unfortunately) 2010 Bay. And a fairly healthy Beltran is better than Chris Carter. And a barely healthy Beltran is better than Jesus Feliciano. If a manager can't find room for him, he's not trying hard enough.

Ceetar Jun 23 2010 08:03 AM Re: Beltran Running

TransMonk wrote: I love the way that Pagan has played this year. I'm also going to be suspicious of Beltran's ability until he is actually playing MLB games. But, sorry Andy, a genuinely healthy Beltran is better than Angel Pagan in every way, IMO. Pagan has been amazingly valuable. He's played great defense (and has a lot of outfield assists as well, so let's not get all giddy about that from Frenchy), runs the bases, has plenty of extra base power even if not as many go over the walls, and he doesn't strike out a ton. I don't want to diminish how good he's been by talking about Pagan alongside what is basically one of the best CFers you could ask for. The team is better if you find a way to have guys in the lineup regularly. I'm not ready to project Beltran at less than his normal ability. For one, we've been told that the injury that actually has keep him out is the bone bruises, not the surgery from the offseason. The same bone bruises he played on, successfully, last year. So why should I listen to analysts/writers/fans that want to, without any evidence, predict taht Beltran will come back unable to run as well, hit as well, move as well?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 23 2010 09:08 AM Re: Beltran Running Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 23 2010 10:13 AM

2005 notwithstanding, when Beltran's been on the road, his engine's run beautifully, and he's handled like a dream (regardless of how much the brake pads might have been frayed or the shocks might have been worn to metal fringe at the time).

metsmarathon Jun 23 2010 09:19 AM Re: Beltran Running

i find it plain silly that the argument could be beltran vs. pagan. the only argument is beltran vs. francoeur, and in that regard, it's entirely likely that beltran will be more valuable to the team than frenchy is, even after you factor for defense and the steps carlos is sure to have lost. but why should we have to trade anybody? carlos is going to need time off, as is pagan. carlos is definitely going to be needing days off, and if he's your primary cf, on the days that he's resting, pagan takes over cf duties while frenchy steps into right, and we have the outfield we're currently playing. when carlos is playing, then angel is in right, and we're a better team. maybe not as good as if they were swapped, but i'll take it. (who has the better arm between beltran and pagan, anyways?). so frenchy will get his playing time, too, and will get enough of it. no need to trade anybody, really. and as well as he's playing, i'd be really surprised if angel pagan could be the centerpiece of a trade that would bring back a good starting pitcher. so why trade him away for less than that?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 23 2010 09:21 AM Re: Beltran Running

Call me a shithead if you will but I'd trade Beltran's ass out of here for a relief pitcher if I could. Not that I don;t appreciate his greatness, I do. It's just that his knees have fucked up two straight seasons now and I'd prefer to move on now than later.

Ashie62 Jun 23 2010 09:25 AM Re: Beltran Running

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Call me a shithead if you will but I'd trade Beltran's ass out of here for a relief pitcher if I could. Not that I don;t appreciate his greatness, I do. It's just that his knees have fucked up two straight seasons now and I'd prefer to move on now than later. Listen Shithead, I couldn't agree more...AN-HELL

Gwreck Jun 23 2010 09:27 AM Re: Beltran Running

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Call me a shithead if you will but I'd trade Beltran's ass out of here for a relief pitcher if I could. Not that I don;t appreciate his greatness, I do. It's just that his knees have fucked up two straight seasons now and I'd prefer to move on now than later. I'd trade him for Cliff Lee, maybe. I won't call you names but his knees have not fucked up any seasons and I think we all know that's a totally disingenuous argument.

Edgy DC Jun 23 2010 09:38 AM Re: Beltran Running

I don't think dealing Beltran's bringing back anything much any time soon.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 23 2010 09:43 AM Re: Beltran Running

Beltran has little trade value until he proves himself healthy and productive. And until he does that, it seems foolish to trade anybody, especially Pagan, in order to make room for him. Imagine dealing Pagan and then having Beltran need to shut it down a week later, which is entirely possible. I'm not sure who would be included in a deal for Oswalt or Lee, but since the third best major-league-ready center fielder in the Mets organization appears to be Jesus Feliciano, I would look to avoid having Pagan be included.

Gwreck Jun 23 2010 09:46 AM Re: Beltran Running

I was being sarcastic. Of course Beltran isn't going to be traded. The point was that he was being undervalued.

smg58 Jun 23 2010 09:54 AM Re: Beltran Running

Pagan hits righties much better than lefties (.864/.677) , Francoeur hits lefties much better than righties (.887/.684). The decision regarding what to do when Beltran is ready to play is not a difficult one, and shouldn't be made into one. That doesn't mean I wouldn't strongly consider playing Beltran in right when Pagan plays as well. But he'd have to have played there during his rehab. Beltran hit just fine in spite of his legs last year, and his bat is too valuable (i.e., too big of an upgrade over Francoeur against righties and Pagan against lefties) to even consider moving him this season. It's a fair subject for discussion over the offseason, but one thing at a time.

Farmer Ted Jun 23 2010 10:11 AM Re: Beltran Running

Fucking Snooze. "His recovery has gone so slowly that people in the organization have privately questioned his intentions, wondering if Beltran was more concerned about being healthy in 2011, when he will be a season away from free agency, playing for a new contract."

Edgy DC Jun 23 2010 10:13 AM Re: Beltran Running

The Mets have explicitly stated they intend to play him in center and center alone.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 23 2010 10:18 AM Re: Beltran Running

smg58 wrote: Pagan hits righties much better than lefties (.864/.677) , Francoeur hits lefties much better than righties (.887/.684). The decision regarding what to do when Beltran is ready to play is not a difficult one, and shouldn't be made into one. I am and have been of SMG's mind about this. But I would bet three fingers on my right hand that this won't be the way they end up going.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 23 2010 10:56 AM Re: Beltran Running

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Pagan hits righties much better than lefties (.864/.677) , Francoeur hits lefties much better than righties (.887/.684). The decision regarding what to do when Beltran is ready to play is not a difficult one, and shouldn't be made into one. I am and have been of SMG's mind about this. But I would bet three fingers on my right hand that this won't be the way they end up going. I am and have been of SMG and LWFS's minds. Mitigating factor that might portend the right move: Jerry's willingness to at times, bat Francoeur eighth.

Edgy DC Jun 28 2010 02:46 PM Re: Beltran Running

Tell me now baby, is he good to you? Can he do to you the things I don't do? Oh, I can take you higher Oh, oh, oh, I'm on fire AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS .556 3 9 1 5 2 0 0 2 7 2 0 0 0 .636 .778 1.414

Ceetar Jun 28 2010 02:55 PM Re: Beltran Running

He's playing 9 innings tonight. He's hitting. He really should be on a plane to Buffalo tomorrow for some rehab above A level. Not any more strenous in terms of easing him in, and the pitching quality is closer to the real thing.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 28 2010 03:33 PM Re: Beltran Running

Fangraphs' Pat Andriola takes a look at who sits when Beltran comes back and why, and winds up examining Angel Pagan and the myth of the "Fourth Outfielder" (distant cousin of the "This-Guy's-A-Major-League-Player/Minor-League-Player" issue): There are sometimes things so obvious in baseball that we needn’t be reminded of them. One of these things is that Angel Pagan is better at baseball than Jeff Francoeur. Dave Cameron already wrote about Pagan’s awesomeness. With Beltran rehabbing, I wrote about the inevitable over a month ago, saying: …I think it’d be optimal for the Mets to bench Francoeur for good and put Carlos Beltran in right field. Beltran will be coming off serious knee issues and declined defensively last year. The Mets can mitigate his stress back in the outfield by putting him in right, leaving Pagan in center, and of course having Jason Bay in left field. Chris Carter and Jeff Francoeur can sit on the bench, and Gary Matthews Jr. can go home and buy really cool stuff with his tens of millions of dollars. Fortunately, the Mets did cut ties with Matthews, have played Chris Carter more, and have Beltran playing minor league games. So it’s the end of June, and here are where Jeff Francoeur and Angel Pagan stand for 2010: Angel Pagan: .302/.363/.443, .357 wOBA, 123 wRC+, 10.0 UZR/150, 2.5 WAR Jeff Francoeur: .270/.320/.425, .321 wOBA, 99 wRC+, -0.9 UZR/150, 0.7 WAR As I said earlier, this is not even close. But Joe Lapointe of The New York Times fills us in on what will actually happen when Beltran returns: The question is where Pagan will play when Beltran comes back. General Manager Omar Minaya and Manager Jerry Manuel maintained Tuesday that Beltran would return as a center fielder — there had been some speculation that he might move to right field, or left, to lessen the running he would have to do — and that the versatile Pagan would rotate through all three outfield positions, playing behind Beltran, left fielder Jason Bay and right fielder Jeff Francoeur. This, simply put, is downright insanity, and honestly insulting to Angel Pagan. There’s no crying in baseball, but excuse me if I may get a little emotional for this guy if what Lapointe says actually comes to fruition. At the least the Mets should platoon Francoeur and Pagan in right field, as Pagan hits lefties relatively poorly and the opposite is true of Francoeur. Just in case you were thinking that maybe Francoeur beats Pagan in traditional stats: Jeff Francoeur. : 74 games, .270 BA, 8 homers, 33 runs, 40 RBI, 7 stolen bases Angel Pagan: 69 games, .302 BA, 4 homers, 41 runs, 35 RBI, 14 stolen bases So it’s not the traditional stats. It’s not the advanced metrics. Then what is it? It firstly has to do with Jeff Francoeur, as Matt Cerrone of MetsBlog said: …yes, i know francouer is a ‘cool guy,’ and he does grow one hell of a beard, and i know he looks you in the eye when he talks and he’s a great quote… i know this… i have talked to him on several occasions and he seems like a terrific person, and someone who it would be fun to hang out with… but, let’s not go crazy here…Francoeur is on pace to hit around .265 with a .320 OBP, 16 HR and 85 RBI this season. …that’s good, don’t get me wrong, and i love his defense and his arm and i don’t underestimate how much of an impact he has on the opposing team’s running game… i get it… but, i just don’t understand why his arm and potential 15 HR is enough to kick pagan to the bench… The Mets media has championed Francoeur while consistently chiding Angel Pagan for not having a solid “Baseball IQ” (that’s a whole other, scary-to-think-about issue). Francoeur is gritty. He makes funny faces and swings as if he’s trying harder than everyone else and reminds you of a quarterback from an SEC school in the 1960s. That’s one part of the equation holding Pagan back. The other is what I’d like to call the “Fourth Outfielder Fallacy.” This is the fallacy that just because a player can play all three outfield positions, he is best served as a fourth outfielder. Most of the time, said outfielder did come up as a bench player who rotated around the outfield positions, but after a good time of solid play, still couldn’t shed the title of “fourth outfielder.” Fans are human, and humans love consistency and purpose. Fourth outfielders make them comfortable. It also causes people to doubt whether or not a fourth outfielder could ever be a real starting outfielder, because, well, I don’t know if there’s a real logical reason as to why, but people still say it anyway. Angel Pagan may become the latest casualty of the Fourth Outfielder Fallacy. If so, we can only hope he’s the last.

Frayed Knot Jun 28 2010 05:10 PM Re: Beltran Running

It's obvious - assuming all are eventually healthy - that Pagan should play as much as possible when Beltran comes back. Where he plays is of little importance to me. The 'RF will be better for Carlos' argument is highly speculative at best, and even more so seeing as how the RF at Citi is hardly your usual small ground to cover field. IOW, rotating Angel among three different positions isn't the same as saying he's being confined to strictly backup duty and I don't think LaPointe's piece says he will or that Francoeur is destined to get preference. I mean, I like the approach that a lot of these independent sites take but there's also a certain arrogance among some of them where they simply assume themselves to be just so much smarter than ML front offices and are willing to twist things to "pre-prove" it. The "bad IQ" complaint they cite is out of date too. Personally, I'm going to wait and see what happens before I panic. On the same topic viewed from the other side, I caught about 5 minutes of Joe Benigno (for the first time in months and months) the other day when he and his partner had Darryl Strawberry as a guest. Now you have to understand that Benigno worships Strawberry and despises Beltran (always has) so it killed him when Straw scoffed at Joe's notion which is that Beltran should be riding the pines in favor of Pagan and the others. "What do you mean what do you do when Beltran comes back?", Straw said, "you play him"!!. JB then tried playing the "but what about the chemistry" card and that's where Straw basically laughed at him.

Edgy DC Jun 28 2010 06:53 PM Re: Beltran Running

Ceetar wrote: He's playing 9 innings tonight. He's hitting. He really should be on a plane to Buffalo tomorrow for some rehab above A level. Not any more strenous in terms of easing him in, and the pitching quality is closer to the real thing. I imagine part of the reason for keeping in A-Ball is the better facilitites in St. Lucie.

The Second Spitter Jul 03 2010 08:09 PM Re: Beltran Running

He's back July 15.... http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/ ... id=5352226

Ceetar Jul 04 2010 08:04 AM Re: Beltran Running

The Second Spitter wrote: He's back July 15.... http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/ ... id=5352226 Eh, for one he _has_ to be back July 15th. Rubin even notes in that article that Manuel contradicts himself every day, so hard to take this at his word anyway. However, it's what I expected given the situation, and the schedule they've had him on. It'd be nice to have him for the Braves series though.

Zvon Jul 04 2010 09:59 AM Re: Beltran Running

.....so my wallpaper was both and premature and not premature. These things only happen with mah Mets.

Zvon Jul 11 2010 03:30 PM Re: Beltran Running

Updated Beltran wallpaper. One for before the break, one for after. Now, I'm not superstitious, BUT YOU ALL BETTER STICK THIS STUFF IN A PLACE THAT WILL PLEASE THE GsOB (TBBUU&OT)! [url]http://zvonsworld.blogspot.com/p/wallpaper-1-beltran.html

Edgy DC Jul 12 2010 08:15 AM Re: Beltran Running

Not to say that Ike Davis is an ideal cleanup man, but I'm a little uncomfortable about slotting Beltran into the fourth spot right away. Reyes already broke the lineup once (or twice!) coming back and hitting first (then third) while he still needed to shake a ton of rust off. I'm think that maybe he should start in as the number six hitter and we'll see how things develop.

Ceetar Jul 12 2010 08:28 AM Re: Beltran Running

Edgy DC wrote: Not to say that Ike Davis is an ideal cleanup man, but I'm a little uncomfortable about slotting Beltran into the fourth spot right away. Reyes already broke the lineup once (or twice!) coming back and hitting first (then third) while he still needed to shake a ton of rust off. I'm think that maybe he should start in as the number six hitter and we'll see how things develop. Well, there's the problem. I don't understand why they didn't promote him to Buffalo for the weekend. at least semi real pitchers there. I also don't understand why he was in NY yesterday. Why fly up just for the day, or why is he not staying in St. Lucie for games the next three days? Isn't 4 days off likely to make him rustier? Davis has a good game yesterday, but he's been slumping for a while. He needed to be dropped down, Beltran was coming back anyway..kinda works for me. I'm not expecting Beltran to smash it, but he has been swinging, unlike Reyes who was at best watching guys swing in movies like the Natural.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 12 2010 08:35 AM Re: Beltran Running

Ceetar wrote: I don't understand why they didn't promote him to Buffalo for the weekend. at least semi real pitchers there. I also don't understand why he was in NY yesterday. Why fly up just for the day, or why is he not staying in St. Lucie for games the next three days? Isn't 4 days off likely to make him rustier? Are you actually concerned about stuff like this?

Ceetar Jul 12 2010 08:37 AM Re: Beltran Running

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Ceetar wrote: I don't understand why they didn't promote him to Buffalo for the weekend. at least semi real pitchers there. I also don't understand why he was in NY yesterday. Why fly up just for the day, or why is he not staying in St. Lucie for games the next three days? Isn't 4 days off likely to make him rustier? Are you actually concerned about stuff like this? not concerned, just curious. It doesn't seem like the best way to things. I'm curious about the way they've lineup the rotation next week too.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 12 2010 08:47 AM Re: Beltran Running

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: I don't understand why they didn't promote him to Buffalo for the weekend. at least semi real pitchers there. I also don't understand why he was in NY yesterday. Why fly up just for the day, or why is he not staying in St. Lucie for games the next three days? Isn't 4 days off likely to make him rustier? Are you actually concerned about stuff like this? not concerned, just curious. It doesn't seem like the best way to things. How could a fan possibly know enough to say?

batmagadanleadoff Jul 12 2010 08:49 AM Re: Beltran Running

Sometimes, ya gotta defer to the Met eyeballs that have been scouting Beltran. Maybe he's ready. Francoeur batting sixth or Cora batting second bothers me a whole lot more than Beltran slotted for cleanup after the AS break.

Edgy DC Jul 12 2010 08:53 AM Re: Beltran Running

Well, after the break, whether Beltran belongs at cleanup will mostly be the last of those three issues still on the table.

Zvon Jul 12 2010 05:34 PM Re: Beltran Running

Ceetar wrote: Davis has a good game yesterday, but he's been slumping for a while. He needed to be dropped down, Beltran was coming back anyway..kinda works for me. Agreed #714. Davis needs to adjust to the adjustments made on him. He has been, but slowly. I have no problem with that. I think he's the kind of guy that does everything slow, but ends up doing it to the best of his ability (fireman joke cocked and ready) cause it sticks. Beltran 4? I think we have to. Until someone else can clean up with power. Wright can't do everything. Bay....what can I say? Davis will work his way back up there, I hope, cause I really don't think Beltran is a cleanup hitter. He can be, and he will be for a bit, but I don't think thats his best slot. If no one else can smack longballs on a more consistent basis, right now, he's the best for that slot.

Ceetar Jul 12 2010 05:49 PM Re: Beltran Running

I've been thinking about this, and It's been my view that Beltran, when his timing isn't quite up to speed or he's slumping, walks a lot. Maybe it makes sense to bat him third, and Wright behind him?

Ashie62 Jul 12 2010 06:20 PM Re: Beltran Running

3-Wright 4-Beltran 5-Bay 6-Davis everyday..

TransMonk Jul 15 2010 07:39 AM Re: Beltran Running

To San Francisco. I'm almost giddy...almost.

Ceetar Jul 15 2010 07:52 AM Re: Beltran Running

TransMonk wrote: To San Francisco. I'm almost giddy...almost. You'll be giddy when he splashes one into the cove. It's about time to retire this thread I suppose. Unless we're gonna get one for everyone. "Wright Swinging" "Reyes Dancing" "Perez Walking" "Frankie agitating"

Benjamin Grimm Jul 15 2010 08:01 AM Re: Beltran Running

Any word yet on who comes off the 25-man roster to open Beltran's spot? I'm guessing Nick Evans? (I just checked the Mets active roster on mets.com, and see Chris Carter is listed as a Designated Hitter. Huh?)

Ceetar Jul 15 2010 08:13 AM Re: Beltran Running

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Any word yet on who comes off the 25-man roster to open Beltran's spot? I'm guessing Nick Evans? (I just checked the Mets active roster on mets.com, and see Chris Carter is listed as a Designated Hitter. Huh?) yeah, given how Carter's been used for teh most part, that seems right. it's still stupid/weird though. they already sent down Feliciano before the break.

Edgy DC Jul 15 2010 08:28 AM Re: Beltran Running

I thought Feliciano was already sent down to make room for him.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 15 2010 08:31 AM Re: Beltran Running

Yes, it looks that way. I thought Evans replaced Feliciano, but he actually replaced Igarashi. 07/12/10 New York Mets optioned LF Jesus Feliciano to Buffalo Bisons. 07/09/10 New York Mets optioned Ryota Igarashi to St. Lucie Mets. New York Mets recalled 1B Nick Evans from Binghamton Mets.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2010 09:52 AM Re: Beltran Running

I'm trying not to get excited. But, okay, I'm kind of excited. Are you excited? 'Cause I am. I'm kind of excited.

Centerfield Jul 15 2010 09:57 AM Re: Beltran Running

I'm pumped. Beltran is my favorite Met, and in my opinion, the best player they have.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 15 2010 10:32 AM Re: Beltran Running

Two words: Vanis Takee!

seawolf17 Jul 15 2010 11:16 AM Re: Beltran Running

Two words: Vanis Takee! Yes! Vanis Takee! Vanis Takee!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2010 11:23 AM Re: Beltran Running

Vanis Takee! Bom Bem, Bom Bem, Bom Bem!

batmagadanleadoff Jul 15 2010 11:31 AM Re: Beltran Running

Potrzebie.

Willets Point Jul 15 2010 11:33 AM Re: Beltran Running

Googled "Vanis Takee" and found this. I was awfully crabby that day.

seawolf17 Jul 15 2010 12:31 PM Re: Beltran Running

Willets Point wrote: Googled "Vanis Takee" and found this. I was awfully crabby that day. I love reading old IGTs.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 15 2010 12:32 PM Re: Beltran Running

Willets Point wrote: Googled "Vanis Takee" and found this. I was awfully crabby that day. What an epic game thread. Complete with a Steve J. Rogers freakout, a discussion of game threads themselves and a dramatic victory. I don't remember the game itself.

Zvon Jul 15 2010 02:24 PM Re: Beltran Running

Two words: Vanis Takee! Its like opening a pack of baseball cards and getting three Beltrans! YAY!

Edgy DC Jul 15 2010 02:52 PM Re: Beltran Running

Do we have an IGT yet for today?

Ceetar Jul 15 2010 02:53 PM Re: Beltran Running

Edgy DC wrote: Do we have an IGT yet for today? It's on G_Fafif cause we won on Sunday no?