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Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

bmfc1 May 13 2010 07:56 PM

At some point, the Wilpons are going to realize that they are spending a great deal of money for a team that is, at best, mediocre. When does Jerry get fired? If you think he will last the season, say so. Otherwise, give an exact date. I'm going with June 7.

Edgy DC May 13 2010 08:01 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I think that they may feel they owe it to him to wait until Carlos Beltran gets back, and then four weeks after that and.... On the other hand, Omar has his own head to worry about, so he may be quicker to move.

Gwreck May 13 2010 08:11 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I think he (unfortunately) lasts the season but does not return for 2011. I'll say they fire him October 5.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 13 2010 08:12 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 13 2010 11:10 PM

If it goes like this? 'Til two weeks after Beltran gets back, or a week or two after the All-Star Break. Off day after the West Coast trip. July 26.

metirish May 13 2010 08:15 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

If 'not soon enough' were a date I woiuld put that. Manuel gets fired just before the first subway series and Valentine gets hired. It's not fair on Manuel but everything about hoim irritates me, the pre and post game chuckle, the in game stupidity...he talks after the game last night about Reyes didn't have a spring training, yet once again he asks him to bunt in that spot.....he missed working on these drills in spring Jerry says yet he keeps asking him to do it.....

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 13 2010 08:29 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

metirish wrote: Manuel gets fired just before the first subway series and Valentine gets hired. I'm highly suggestible, Metswise. Don't put these thoughts in my head, man. That's just cruel.

Frayed Knot May 13 2010 08:38 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

At this point you have to wonder about a few things: a) who's calling the shots? Is this Omar's call or not. b) whose ever call it is, are they on board with the excessive bunting often without regard for lineup spot or who is coming up next? If they're OK with it then Jerry is simply pushing the right buttons and the players aren't executing. And if they're not is there someone within the system - Oberkfell?, Melvin?, Hale? - who they think will roll the dice differently? I don't think Valentine is getting the call. 'Anytime' would be OK with me at this juncture. Jerry's not a bad guy IMO, he's just too set in his ways (the wrong ways from my view) and these one-run losses where the manager's decisions make the most difference are starting to mount up and kill us. The 50-game mark with be in about two weeks which is as fair a mark as a manager needs. If the upcoming back-to-back series vs MFYs & MFPs go badly there might be a new guy on the plane to Milwaukee. That's [u:1qfmkp3o]May 28[/u:1qfmkp3o].

Nymr83 May 13 2010 10:51 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

June 3rd, an offday after a quick 6 game trip

Benjamin Grimm May 14 2010 04:17 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

When will the Mets next be on the West Coast? It would make it easier to do one of those 3 a.m. firings. Remember, when you fire your manager at 3 a.m., nobody ever finds out!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 14 2010 07:03 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Benjamin Grimm wrote: When will the Mets next be on the West Coast? It would make it easier to do one of those 3 a.m. firings. Remember, when you fire your manager at 3 a.m., nobody ever finds out! Just after the All-Star Break. The funny thing? Gun to head, I would bet pretty heavily on his being bulletproof during the trip, if only for its duration... just because of the reaction the last time. Even if it's the absolute right time to do it-- even if he goes on a mildly racist postgame rant during the trip's first leg, Beltran comes back just to say "I'm not sure about this guy," and every horoscope in every Omar-and-Wilpon-read newspaper for two weeks reads "It's time for a change."

Ceetar May 14 2010 07:08 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I don't think It's Omar's call, and I've suspected Manuel has more sway with bigger fish based on whenever Omar and Jerry say different things about the direction of the team (often) the chips all seem to fall on Manuel's side. (Mejia for instance) He's just not going to get fired. If they're not going to fire him when the team is _again_ drastically underperforming, and losing in mindnumbing fashion and blame it on the players, then they'll continue to blame it on the players. So if they don't fire him _right now_, Bay and Reyes will get hot, the Mets will win games (including a Sweep of Phladelphia next week) and he'll get a contract extension after the playoffs even though he managed the team out of them.

metirish May 14 2010 07:22 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Only two games behind, I just don't see him getting fired. (as much as I would want it)

Edgy DC May 14 2010 07:25 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Funny thing is that he lost the last two games making the same strategic call with it blowing up in the same way. Both games resulted in his opponent not only winning, but passing his team in the standings. That's the sort of thing that makes drinking men out of managers.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 14 2010 07:26 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

In retrospect hiring him on a full-time basis was a completely avoidable blunder and that has to go on Omar. Of course the person who most deserved a whacking after '08 the most was Omar himself. And the Jeff Francoeur thing is is his too, Jerry's fate oddly may be tied to Frenchie's. My desire is for a double-whacking on July 1.

TransMonk May 14 2010 07:41 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Yeah, I can't see Jerry getting booted without Omar going at the same time. Sadly, I think they may both get through the rest of the season.

Edgy DC May 14 2010 07:50 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

You may want it to go down that way, but you can't see it any other way? I totally can see one outliving the other. Have the Mets ever really fired both at the same time? Johnson and Cashen went together, but the former was let go and the latter retired, I think. Torborg and Harazin went about the same time, but I can't recall if it was in one fell swoop. Torborg wasn't Harazin's hire anyhow and perhaps the guy should have been allowed one. Howe went around the same time as Duquette was demoted, but again, they weren't necessarily linked.

TransMonk May 14 2010 07:58 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 14 2010 08:02 AM

Did any of those GMs have 2 managerial firings with such high expectations on their watch? I'm not an Omar hater. I just think he was lucky to survive 2008 and the Willie debacle. I don't think he gets the benefit of the doubt from ownership again. On edit: I want the Mets win their next 30 games and all of this to become moot. That being said, there is no way I totally can see one outliving the other.

Frayed Knot May 14 2010 08:00 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I suppose the asst GM is always some sort of GM in waiting, but is there anyone currently on staff that ownership actually considers to be a future GM? Manager is a different story and, while Omar getting to name yet another permanent field boss may be one more than he deserves, a finish-out-the- year interim is another story. IOW, drop-kicking Omar at the end of the season if things don't go well might be more in the plans but, no, I don't think they need to walk the plank together.

metirish May 14 2010 08:01 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

TransMonk wrote: Did any of those GMs have 2 managerial firings with such high expectations on their watch? I'm not an Omar hater. I just think he was lucky to survive 2008 and the Willie debacle. I don't think he gets the benefit of the doubt from ownership again. Minaya has that contract for another two years.... To try and answer FK's question.....Ricco would be next in line I would think.

Ceetar May 14 2010 08:06 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Edgy DC wrote: Funny thing is that he lost the last two games making the same strategic call with it blowing up in the same way. Both games resulted in his opponent not only winning, but passing his team in the standings. That's the sort of thing that makes drinking men out of managers. This was what turned me against Jerry for good (over a year ago at this point). His inability to learn. His ability to stick to his guns and make the same decisions despite it proving to be the wrong call in the past. Whether it's pulling Johan early, bunting down a run in the 9th, or bunting with your third hitter.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 14 2010 08:11 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Well, nobody thinks Bunting is for Losers any more passionately than I do but when it comes down to it the kind of thing that's going to get Jerry fired isn't the bunt calls but the total lack of execution when he calls for a bunt. That's the kind of stuff that happened over and over again last year and is, to Jerry's credit, been less of an issue this year. I think Reyes misses his HGH and roid therapy

Edgy DC May 14 2010 08:18 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I think Jerry is less stubborn than Randolph was, but that doesn't make him more right. I just think his failure to put the team in a winning position has got to be weighing down on their morale.

Benjamin Grimm May 14 2010 08:50 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

When exactly does Howard Johnson's seat start to heat up? Is he immune because he's a 1986 hero? (He actually sucked in 1986, but that's beside the point.) Or because he's David Wright's baseball step-daddy? I suspect that if he was some import from another organization, someone who didn't have deep Mets roots, he'd be gone by now. It's okay to hire heroes from the team's past, but you have to realize that at some point you may have to fire them.

Ceetar May 14 2010 08:56 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Benjamin Grimm wrote: When exactly does Howard Johnson's seat start to heat up? Is he immune because he's a 1986 hero? (He actually sucked in 1986, but that's beside the point.) Or because he's David Wright's baseball step-daddy? I suspect that if he was some import from another organization, someone who didn't have deep Mets roots, he'd be gone by now. It's okay to hire heroes from the team's past, but you have to realize that at some point you may have to fire them. I've thought maybe they should just make HoJo a bench coach. Which would sorta be a promotion but still get him away from hitting if it's a problem. Of course, you probably let your new manager pick his own bench coach. (Or you could undermine him from the getgo, why not?)

metirish May 14 2010 08:57 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Benjamin Grimm wrote: When exactly does Howard Johnson's seat start to heat up? Is he immune because he's a 1986 hero? (He actually sucked in 1986, but that's beside the point.) Or because he's David Wright's baseball step-daddy? I suspect that if he was some import from another organization, someone who didn't have deep Mets roots, he'd be gone by now. It's okay to hire heroes from the team's past, but you have to realize that at some point you may have to fire them. Good point , me , I've never cared for him as a hitting coach.....I hate to overstate what they do but fuck me he's done nothing with these players. Reasons why the Mets won't / can't fire him He's Wright's step-daddy His son rents from Daniel Murphy

Edgy DC May 14 2010 09:19 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

metirish wrote: TransMonk wrote: Did any of those GMs have 2 managerial firings with such high expectations on their watch? I'm not an Omar hater. I just think he was lucky to survive 2008 and the Willie debacle. I don't think he gets the benefit of the doubt from ownership again. Minaya has that contract for another two years.... To try and answer FK's question.....Ricco would be next in line I would think. Don't forget Wayne Krivsky.

HahnSolo May 14 2010 09:24 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

If Omar does get canned, I'd like the permanent replacement (and I've said this before) to come from somewhere other than the Cashen/McIlvaine/Phillips tree. Krivsky would be welcome.

metirish May 14 2010 09:30 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I totally didn't remember the Wayne

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 14 2010 10:02 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

In retrospect hiring him on a full-time basis was a completely avoidable blunder and that has to go on Omar. See also: Castillo, Luis; Perez, Oliver? I'm not sure where to slot it, exactly, but misplaced loyalty/overvaluation of recent successes has got to rank pretty high on his list of missteps during his Met tenure.

Fman99 May 14 2010 10:12 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Benjamin Grimm wrote: When exactly does Howard Johnson's seat start to heat up? Is he immune because he's a 1986 hero? (He actually sucked in 1986, but that's beside the point.) Or because he's David Wright's baseball step-daddy? I suspect that if he was some import from another organization, someone who didn't have deep Mets roots, he'd be gone by now. It's okay to hire heroes from the team's past, but you have to realize that at some point you may have to fire them. Seriously. Kick him over to SNY, where he can only hurt people with banal postgame claptrap (see Ojeda, Bob.) I think the ideal Mets hitting coach is another '86 alum, in the booth. Too bad he has no interest in the full time gig. Not that I blame him, the idea of working 110 days per year sounds just ducky to me also.

Ceetar May 14 2010 10:14 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Fman99 wrote: Seriously. Kick him over to SNY, where he can only hurt people with banal postgame claptrap (see Ojeda, Bob.) I think the ideal Mets hitting coach is another '86 alum, in the booth. Too bad he has no interest in the full time gig. Not that I blame him, the idea of working 110 days per year sounds just ducky to me also. Sometimes I think just having the SNY audio feed piped into the dugout would be enough to replace Hojo and Warthen both.

seawolf17 May 14 2010 10:14 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Ceetar wrote: Fman99 wrote: Seriously. Kick him over to SNY, where he can only hurt people with banal postgame claptrap (see Ojeda, Bob.) I think the ideal Mets hitting coach is another '86 alum, in the booth. Too bad he has no interest in the full time gig. Not that I blame him, the idea of working 110 days per year sounds just ducky to me also. Sometimes I think just having the SNY audio feed piped into the dugout would be enough to replace Hojo and Warthen both. You know, the team of manager Gary Cohen, hitting coach Keith Hernandez, and pitching coach Ron Darling sounds awfully appealing.

metirish May 14 2010 10:23 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I can't recall Keith and Ron giving anything other than the standard answers / jargon regarding hitting and pitching, certainly they don't offer any thoughts on how to get Bay going or Ollie going...according to Keith Bay has been 'close' for the past two weeks.

Ceetar May 14 2010 10:34 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

metirish wrote: I can't recall Keith and Ron giving anything other than the standard answers / jargon regarding hitting and pitching, certainly they don't offer any thoughts on how to get Bay going or Ollie going...according to Keith Bay has been 'close' for the past two weeks. I'm constantly hearing Ron say things like "He should throw a low outside fastball here." Keith occasionally makes comments about what to do as a hitter, what to look for. Bay's had a good game here or there, just not power wise. But it's more strategic observations I notice than specific 'fixing' advice.

Edgy DC May 14 2010 10:35 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

They are certainly both bright. But coaching is hard work with high stakes, and those two have cashed in their sweat equity a long time ago.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 14 2010 10:43 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Metirish wrote: I can't recall Keith and Ron giving anything other than the standard answers / jargon regarding hitting and pitching, certainly they don't offer any thoughts on how to get Bay going or Ollie going...according to Keith Bay has been 'close' for the past two weeks. Were Keith minted as batting coach, and were he to give the media the same access that early-period Peterson did, I suspect that "flying open" would reach a par with "battling" in terms of haunting Mets fans' ears. And as good as Darling is at explaining inside-baseball-- both jargon and clubhouse/coach-type stuff-- to initiates (my Mom loves him)... that's no guarantor that he'd be any great shakes at motivating/correcting guys who are in the game. Let them do what they do well.

Centerfield May 14 2010 11:50 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I seem to be in the minority here, and perhaps the bad taste of Willie Randolph is still to fresh, but I really like Jerry Manuel. I think he's personable, funny, and it really seems like he has a great relationship with his players while also maintaining their respect. I like that he's not some idiot out there arguing every call, but that he brings the fight when he feels wronged. I think he's a great mixture of calm and fire. Personality wise, I think he's better suited for the managerial position than even Bobby Valentine. I just don't think he's very smart. His in-game decisions are questionable, his love of bunting is driving me nutty, and I don't understand why the team played such bad fundamental baseball last year (though this year, they are much, much better). I am all for replacing Jerry with Bobby Valentine, because I think he is the best overall fit for the Mets. (You give away some "personable" but you get a lot more "smart" and "interesting".) But if it's going to be some of these other hacks, I'd just as soon keep Jerry.

metirish May 14 2010 11:53 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

WOW, as I was reading the first paragraph I thought someone must have broken in to your account CF....the first line of the second paragraph eased my worries......seriously though, Jerry seems like a nice guy but I am at the point in our relationship were everything thing he does irritates me. Someone needs to go.

Edgy DC May 14 2010 11:55 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I've got nothing against his personality. I've got everything against his bullpen usage and his bunting. It's just seems so doomed, especially after seeing bullpens break down in past years. I root not for his axing, but his awakening, but I fear the team is losing confidence in his leadership and in themselves.

Centerfield May 14 2010 11:57 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Edgy DC wrote: I've got nothing against his personality. I've got everything against his bullpen usage and his bunting. Exactly. To clarify my post earlier, when I say "questionable", I mean "really, really bad".

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 14 2010 12:01 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Centerfield wrote: I seem to be in the minority here, and perhaps the bad taste of Willie Randolph is still to fresh, but I really like Jerry Manuel. I think he's personable, funny, and it really seems like he has a great relationship with his players while also maintaining their respect. I like that he's not some idiot out there arguing every call, but that he brings the fight when he feels wronged. I think he's a great mixture of calm and fire. Personality wise, I think he's better suited for the managerial position than even Bobby Valentine. He's married. So are you, with a beeyoot of a kid, nonetheless. Take it easy, brother.

Frayed Knot May 14 2010 12:01 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I don't dislike Jerry either and I suspect some of the things that seem to bother people about him: the chuckling, the over-used phrases, etc., wouldn't even be noticed if the team weren't floundering around out there -- just like for me the way what I found annoying about Fran Healy drove me even more batty during lousy games. It's just that at some point "mgmt" - whether that means Omar or Jeffie or whoever - are going to have to decide whether the way JM runs his game strategy is what they want in a field manager. If it doesn't bother them then he very well might be here for a while. If it does I wonder if they have a notion about how the likely fill-ins would do differently and how/if that would figure into their decision. Of course if Reyes is going to continue to pop-up for a living and Bay stays a very expensive singles hitter than none of this is going to matter. At least not much.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 14 2010 12:21 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Frayed Knot wrote: I don't dislike Jerry either and I suspect some of the things that seem to bother people about him: the chuckling, the over-used phrases, etc., wouldn't even be noticed if the team weren't floundering around out there -- just like for me the way what I found annoying about Fran Healy drove me even more batty during lousy games. It's just that at some point "mgmt" - whether that means Omar or Jeffie or whoever - are going to have to decide whether the way JM runs his game strategy is what they want in a field manager. If it doesn't bother them then he very well might be here for a while. If it does I wonder if they have a notion about how the likely fill-ins would do differently and how/if that would figure into their decision. Of course if Reyes is going to continue to pop-up for a living and Bay stays a very expensive singles hitter than none of this is going to matter. At least not much. This is sort of where I am. Part of his problem is that he's way too passive and doesn't manage particularly well day to day; the other is that he's been given a less than perfect team to work with.

Benjamin Grimm May 14 2010 12:26 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

A manager has a number of roles. One of them is in-game strategy, but that's not the only thing. It is, however, the thing that's most apparent to us. And I think that most of us agree that it's a weakness for Jerry, not a strength. But the Mets are going to judge him on all facets of the job. If they like the other stuff, then they're less likely to fire him because of in-game strategy. (He bunts too much, he doesn't know how to handle a relief staff...) If the losses pile up, he'll eventually get canned, of course. And then his in-game moves, his schmoozing, his player relations, etc. won't save him. But the losses haven't piled up quite yet. The Mets actually are still above .500. I think that 8-game winning streak bought Jerry a bit of time. I don't see a firing before June 1, at the earliest. And it's possible that the Mets may make the playoffs in spite of Jerry's moves. (Not likely, but possible, if the talent that they have finds a way to gel.) And if that happens, we'll still be kvetching about Jerry in 2011.

Edgy DC May 14 2010 12:38 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I just think he deals with the team playing poorly by trying to solve problems himself --- bunt for single runs because they're not hitting, use the same pitchers daily because he doesn't trust the others, play the stars and rest the secondary players because he can't afford to sit them the way the team is hitting. A manager shouldn't find answers in strategy, but in the players themselves. Find opportunties for everybody to show what they bring to the table, and if they don't bring anything, for pity's sake, find someone who does. Get Carter his at-bats. Bat Reyes second not for any political reason, but because it compromises his speed game with his RBI game. Let pitchers pitching well pitch. Take a lesson from the strengths movement, and stop trying to solve all the problems (you will never bullet-proof the pen, even if you're given 10,000 games to try) and instead focus on the liberating the strengths of these beautiful players. YEAH!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 14 2010 01:49 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Free to Be... You and Manuel?

Frayed Knot May 15 2010 06:43 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

It could be worse I suppose. You could have Ron Gardenhire intentionally walking Teixeira to load the bases and then specifically bring in Matt Guerrier to face Alex Rodriguez even though Rodriguez was 4 for 7 with 3 HRs against him. Two pitches later he was 5 for 8 with 4 HRs and the Twins 1-run lead was now a 3-run deficit.

Ashie62 May 15 2010 08:17 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

My issues with Manuel are his allowing so much bunting. As in of late letting your #3 hitter bunt, especially with men on? I have tired of Jerry's mix n match bullpen. I also am weary of his postgame press confidence. What appears to be honest I know take as flippant. Firing? If it happens I'll go with after the next underwhelming road trip.

MFS62 May 15 2010 11:18 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Much has been said over the years (including on the CPF) about how Dallas Green ruined an entire generation (K) of top pitching prospects by mis-use. And much has been posted here about Jerry's overwork of some pitchers. I'm more concerned about any strategic (long term) effect Jerry doing that may have on some of the current pitchers, rather than any particular tactical (in-game) decision. Not that I'm defending any particular in-game decision but stuff happens. As for when he gets fired? I don't do grisly predictions. Later

Ashie62 May 15 2010 08:23 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

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Zvon May 15 2010 08:25 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Ashie62 wrote: For bold death predictions one can try this [url]http://www.tombclock.com/ lol. ty Ashie

Kong76 May 16 2010 02:43 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Omar on his way to Hotlanta according to Post Game Live. Maybe they'll Willie Jerry later.

Zvon May 16 2010 02:44 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

The day the Mets are 7 games out. Even tho I truly feel that its Omar who shud pack his bags. Thats surprising to me cuz I've always been an Omar supporter. But his agenda has hurt the team at this point. Two contracts that keep on hittin me over the head: Castillo and Perez. Castillo is not as bad as I thought he would end up being, not by far, but he was not worth what he was given. No way. Perez? Hope in one hand and shit in the other. He gambled. Looks like a big loss at this point. Better yet, I hope the Wilpons sell the team. Whats Doubleday up to these days?

Rockin' Doc May 16 2010 02:49 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I have no idea of the actual date, but it has to be much closer after this sweep at the hands of the Marlins. This team seems stuck in reverse.

Ashie62 May 16 2010 06:22 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Rockin' Doc wrote: I have no idea of the actual date, but it has to be much closer after this sweep at the hands of the Marlins. This team seems stuck in reverse. They are certainly not stuck in overdrive

Ashie62 May 16 2010 08:47 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Cut the cord with Manuel. It is time to start working to rebuild and remove the fart cloud that has enveloped this team since 09/07

Edgy DC May 17 2010 07:10 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Here goes the tabloid drumbeat. He actually comes close to making a useful argument in paragraph two, describing him as "the manager whose message no longer resonates and whose vision is no longer focused." Those are two good reasons to move on, but rather than support them (and they certainly are supportable), he resorts to tired arguments that amount to the team is losing, somebody got hurt, it's upsetting, whack the guy.

metirish May 17 2010 07:15 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Points for not going with Howe here You know whom Manuel sounds like when he constantly praises his team for not quitting? He sounds like Rich Kotite. Absent anything resembling a representative Jets team back in the day, Kotite made playing hard sound like a sacrament rather than a job requirement. It is of little consequence that the Mets play hard more often than not; they also lose more often than not. I didn't see much of this series.....watched a movie Saturday night and went to the Zoo yesterday..

Benjamin Grimm May 17 2010 07:20 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

It seems pretty clear that the goodwill that came from that eight-game winning streak is already completely gone. And it evaporated even sooner than I thought it would.

Frayed Knot May 17 2010 07:25 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

metirish wrote: I didn't see much of this series.....watched a movie Saturday night and went to the Zoo yesterday.. Well, Saturday's game was like seeing a bad movie and Sunday's was like watching monkeys play ball ... so you sort of did see them.

metirish May 17 2010 07:30 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

joepet wrote: Jerry will go the day after the Yankee series. May 24th. There will be a new Manager in place for Phillies series on the 25th. I have him going in time for the MFY's coming to Flushing and Bobby V being hired just in time.... not going to happen but still.

metirish May 17 2010 07:33 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Frayed Knot wrote: metirish wrote: I didn't see much of this series.....watched a movie Saturday night and went to the Zoo yesterday.. Well, Saturday's game was like seeing a bad movie and Sunday's was like watching monkeys play ball ... so you sort of did see them. and manning 3rd base for the Mets

Ceetar May 17 2010 07:37 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I've been out of commission most of the weekend (public speaking, drinking from a flask, dancing, broadway). Did I read somewhere that Omar is meeting the team in Atlanta? can we say post-game firing, win or lose? Replacement waiting back in NY when they finish the road trip?

metirish May 17 2010 07:43 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Were you actually public speaking or just drunk and speaking loudly in public?...:)

Frayed Knot May 17 2010 07:47 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Ceetar wrote: I've been out of commission most of the weekend (public speaking, drinking from a flask, dancing, broadway). Did I read somewhere that Omar is meeting the team in Atlanta? can we say post-game firing, win or lose? Replacement waiting back in NY when they finish the road trip? GMs travel with the team all the time so this one doesn't necessarily mean anything is afoot. You can read things into the fact that Omar wasn't previously scheduled to make this specific trip but it may just be a 'see for myself' kind of thing which could nudge him towards (or away) from making a change in the near future, not that a decision has already been reached.

Ceetar May 17 2010 07:52 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: I've been out of commission most of the weekend (public speaking, drinking from a flask, dancing, broadway). Did I read somewhere that Omar is meeting the team in Atlanta? can we say post-game firing, win or lose? Replacement waiting back in NY when they finish the road trip? GMs travel with the team all the time so this one doesn't necessarily mean anything is afoot. You can read things into the fact that Omar wasn't previously scheduled to make this specific trip but it may just be a 'see for myself' kind of thing which could nudge him towards (or away) from making a change in the near future, not that a decision has already been reached. True. It's just very similiar to the way they did it last time. Probably just hope on my part. And yes, it was actually public speaking, I was the best man in a wedding. I hate public speaking, I'm a very shy person, I get nervous even about screaming Let's Go Mets and Jose..Jose.. with 50k other people. Sounds like a better time than watching the Mets this weekend though, and probalby drank less than I would've needed to watching the game.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 17 2010 08:59 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 17 2010 11:26 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: It seems pretty clear that the goodwill that came from that eight-game winning streak is already completely gone. And it evaporated even sooner than I thought it would. Same here. But then, they've lost a lot more quickly since the streak (3-13 since the win in the first game at Philly) than I thought they would. And in the overwhelming majority of them lay some terrible managerial decisions that looked anywhere from highly spurious to nonsensical as they were were occurring. As the season began, I had set my expectations to a nice, reasonable level, and I had been prepared not to get too upset about what figured to be a middling season, win-loss-wise, during which we got to see some old guys be healthy and play well again and see some new guys knock home runs over the wall. In retrospect, all the win streak really did was make me dream a little bit, and prep my insides for the burgeoning hole in my intestinal lining I thought I'd girded my system against. It made me really care again about this particular team's fortunes, and for that, thanks and fuck you, win streak. Metirish wrote: I didn't see much of this series.....watched a movie Saturday night and went to the Zoo yesterday... Went on Saturday-- in retrospect, you sequenced it far better than we did. Still, it's pleasantly ironic how much watching funny monkeys hurling crap in front of a crowd can help one forget about an Ollie P. start.

batmagadanleadoff May 17 2010 10:52 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Frayed Knot wrote: It could be worse I suppose. "It could be worse" resonates with me. I have little confidence that Manuel's replacement would be significantly better. Wilpon strikes me as an ego driven owner that abhors dynamic personalities -- the strong, knowledgeable type that will fight for his way, clashing with the brass over ideas and constantly telling management what it probably doesn't want to hear. A successful manager is likelier than not to possess many or all of those characteristics and will, among other things, tell Wilpon where the hell he can stick Jeff Francoeur if the Mets are serious about fielding a contender. Bobby Valentine was such a manager, but I think that V developed a good deal of his swagger as a Met. It's no surprise that Wilpon's first meaningful order of business upon acquiring total team ownership was to can Valentine. I'm hoping for the best, though.

metirish May 17 2010 12:21 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

If it means anything....Burkhardt is tweeting that a "team source" told him Omar is not in Atlanta to fire Jerry......Burkhardt opines that two bad games here and that will change.

bmfc1 May 17 2010 01:40 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Jeff Wilpon is there too: AdamRubinESPN Chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon has decided to come down to Atlanta to join general manager Omar Minaya, a team official confirms.

Benjamin Grimm May 17 2010 01:42 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Oooh, that sounds ominous. Somebody should inform Jeff that Atlanta is in the same time zone as New York. I wonder if Jeff will be wearing his hardhat?

metirish May 17 2010 01:42 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

bmfc1 wrote: Jeff Wilpon is there too: AdamRubinESPN Chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon has decided to come down to Atlanta to join general manager Omar Minaya, a team official confirms. He's looking to move the Thrashers to Queens

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 17 2010 01:53 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

metirish wrote: Jeff Wilpon is there too: AdamRubinESPN Chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon has decided to come down to Atlanta to join general manager Omar Minaya, a team official confirms. He's looking to move the Thrashers to Queens Thwack! I'd like to change my prediction to, uh... today.

bmfc1 May 17 2010 02:00 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired Edited 2 time(s), most recently on May 17 2010 02:09 PM

Brian Costa Ledger_NYMets Manuel walks out of office, looks at reporters and cracks, "I got a uniform on, don't I?"

Edgy DC May 17 2010 02:04 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Thwack! says Jerry.

Ceetar May 17 2010 02:11 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

bmfc1 wrote: Brian Costa Ledger_NYMets Manuel walks out of office, looks at reporters and cracks, "I got a uniform on, don't I?" Didn't answer the question, and was fetching Warthen. Maybe they're all gone, but not until after the game.

G-Fafif May 17 2010 02:11 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Unless he's bringing with him two pink slips and a FOR SALE sign, what purpose does a Jeff Wilpon visit with the manager and general manager serve? Besides reminding us the franchise is in such outstanding hands, I mean?

Swan Swan H May 17 2010 02:19 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Ceetar wrote: bmfc1 wrote: Brian Costa Ledger_NYMets Manuel walks out of office, looks at reporters and cracks, "I got a uniform on, don't I?" Didn't answer the question, and was fetching Warthen. Maybe they're all gone, but not until after the game. Have you contacted the caterer for your "Jerry is fired'' party yet?

Ceetar May 17 2010 02:22 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

G-Fafif wrote: Unless he's bringing with him two pink slips and a FOR SALE sign, what purpose does a Jeff Wilpon visit with the manager and general manager serve? Besides reminding us the franchise is in such outstanding hands, I mean? Indeed. And it doesn't quite paint a picture of autonomy. "Uh oh, Omar might make a decision! I better get down there!"

Ceetar May 17 2010 02:23 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Swan Swan H wrote: Ceetar wrote: bmfc1 wrote: Brian Costa Ledger_NYMets Manuel walks out of office, looks at reporters and cracks, "I got a uniform on, don't I?" Didn't answer the question, and was fetching Warthen. Maybe they're all gone, but not until after the game. Have you contacted the caterer for your "Jerry is fired'' party yet? 718-507-TIXX. I'm sitting in section 508 row...6 I think Friday. All set to cheer hard for the new manager.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 17 2010 02:24 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

G-Fafif wrote: Unless he's bringing with him two pink slips and a FOR SALE sign, what purpose does a Jeff Wilpon visit with the manager and general manager serve? Besides reminding us the franchise is in such outstanding hands, I mean? Also, Chick-Fil-A for Jeffy!

Edgy DC May 17 2010 02:26 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I can't see how a COO joining a team on the road is bad symbolism unless you want it to be.

Ceetar May 17 2010 02:28 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Edgy DC wrote: I can't see how a COO joining a team on the road is bad symbolism unless you want it to be. It just seems like it because it's only reported when it fits a storyline, like now. It's more the symbolism of him doing it unscheduled, right after Omar did the same.

G-Fafif May 17 2010 02:28 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: G-Fafif wrote: Unless he's bringing with him two pink slips and a FOR SALE sign, what purpose does a Jeff Wilpon visit with the manager and general manager serve? Besides reminding us the franchise is in such outstanding hands, I mean? Also, Chick-Fil-A for Jeffy! You may be onto something. Take the team to Tastee Freez BEFORE the game and maybe they'll play better. Corn dog's are on Jeffy!

G-Fafif May 17 2010 02:29 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Edgy DC wrote: I can't see how a COO joining a team on the road is bad symbolism unless you want it to be. Next time an owner flies in after a five-game winning streak, it will take on a new and more positive meaning.

Edgy DC May 17 2010 02:33 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Ceetar wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I can't see how a COO joining a team on the road is bad symbolism unless you want it to be. It just seems like it because it's only reported when it fits a storyline, like now. It's more the symbolism of him doing it unscheduled, right after Omar did the same. Well, I guess that certainly can be seen as foreshadowing a decision being made, but I don't get from there to bad symbolism.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 17 2010 02:39 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Bad symbolism? Mebbe not. Bad portent? Bad omen? Bad sign? Yeah, mebbe.

Edgy DC May 17 2010 03:07 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I'm sorry. I just don't follow. People are rooting for a change, and the braintrust seems to be meeting to discuss... something. You want omens, I'll give you omens, baby. May 17, 1973: California Angels center fielder Bobby Valentine tries to scale a wall to prevent a Dick Green home run during a 5 - 4 loss to the Oakland Athletics. Valentine catches his spikes in the wall and fractures his leg. The injury will ruin his career. May 17, 1985: The Texas Rangers name Bobby Valentine as their new manager, replacing the departed Doug Rader. Twenty-five years ago!

G-Fafif May 17 2010 05:58 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Jeff just swung by to do a little Terry Cashman, according to Adam Rubin. Q: Did you express confidence? JW: "I came to talk baseball with them and hear what they want to do and how they want to get this moving in the right direction."

Zvon May 17 2010 06:00 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Jeff just swung by to do a little Terry Cashman, according to Adam Rubin. Q: Did you express confidence? JW: "I came to talk baseball with them and hear what they want to do and how they want to get this moving in the right direction." whew. I saw this thread pop up and I thought "yikes, they fired him during the game!"

seawolf17 May 18 2010 10:50 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Jeff just can't get enough of that chant.

Centerfield May 18 2010 11:01 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Jeff just swung by to do a little Terry Cashman, according to Adam Rubin. Q: Did you express confidence? JW: "I came to talk baseball with them and hear what they want to do and how they want to get this moving in the right direction." whew. I saw this thread pop up and I thought "yikes, they fired him during the game!" How funny would that be? "Oh my goodness John, is that Bobby Valentine in the owner's box? OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS!!!!! OF ALL THE DRAMATIC THINGS!!!!!!!!"

Edgy DC May 18 2010 11:27 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

"And here comes Jerry Manuel out to talk with Pelfrey. I guess he's gonna try to settle... no, I'm wrong. He's signaling to the pen. I'm not sure I agree with that call. And... wait... here comes Omar Minaya out to the mound, and he's signaling to somebody in the press box. Somebody from the box is climbing down toward the Met dugout. I can't see who it is, but Jerry Manuel is not happy. I've seen a lot of things but... Wait a minute... here comes Jeff Wilpon, and he's signaling! Keith, what do you make of this?" "Stop beggin', Jerry. Stop beggin'."

metirish May 18 2010 11:34 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Funny stuff people Ever notice that Jeff squints and his nose wiggles when he talks, I couldn't help[ but notice it yesterday .

Nymr83 May 18 2010 12:10 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Next time an owner flies in after a five-game winning streak, it will take on a new and more positive meaning. Actually, it won't get reported!

Ashie62 May 19 2010 08:49 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Please God, give Jeff the strength to hatchet Jerry

MFS62 May 19 2010 10:08 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

There have been a lot of negatives mentioned in this and other threads about Jerry. So, I have to ask, what positives does Jerry bring to the table as manager? I'll start with: -History of being a winning manager. (ChiSox and here) -Media relations, and some quick quips. -Since I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, a calm clubhouse, with everyone on the same page and getting along well. (There have been no Hanleyesque comments by players.) What else? And do you feel those positives are enough so you would want to retain him as manager? Later

Benjamin Grimm May 19 2010 11:09 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

MFS62 wrote: And do you feel those positives are enough so you would want to retain him as manager? No. The Wilpons evidently do, at least for the moment.

Zvon May 19 2010 11:21 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

MFS62 wrote: There have been a lot of negatives mentioned in this and other threads about Jerry. So, I have to ask, what positives does Jerry bring to the table as manager? I like Jerrys patience. And his hutzpah. Like battin Reyes 3rd... I did not like it, I did not agree with it, but he did it in the face of adversity. And even when being pressured to stop doing it by media and fans, he felt he needed a certain amount of time to see if it would work. He believed in something and he went with it. And he stuck with it until he decided it wasn't going to work. Until HE decided. No knee jerk reaction to the pressures. Also his even keel. I like that in some managers and not in others.Some become bland. (I like the opposite in some managers but not in others.) I like it in Jerry. He has a good mix of calmness and humor. Most of all I like his patience. It's a long season and it suits the game. MFS62 wrote: And do you feel those positives are enough so you would want to retain him as manager? Yes, in my opinion. Lets face it. The way things are right now we have a third place team here. I pretty much felt that way coming out of spring training. This is not Jerrys fault. Yea, he should stay, at least until the All Star break if the team can keep its head, hey, even just its nose, above water. Many won't agree but I also am a very patient man.

themetfairy May 19 2010 11:24 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I'm going to guess July 12th - the beginning of the All Star break. They can make the announcement when nobody is around to cover the team.

metirish May 19 2010 11:25 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

"History of being a winning manager"? Overall he has a winning % of .511.....with the Mets it's .488....career .509....regardless of those numbers he's never won anything as a manager. His 2000 WS finished first and went 0-3 in the ALDS. probably better to say he has complied a winning record as a manager.

Ceetar May 19 2010 11:30 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

MFS62 wrote: There have been a lot of negatives mentioned in this and other threads about Jerry. So, I have to ask, what positives does Jerry bring to the table as manager? I'll start with: -History of being a winning manager. (ChiSox and here) -Media relations, and some quick quips. -Since I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, a calm clubhouse, with everyone on the same page and getting along well. (There have been no Hanleyesque comments by players.) What else? And do you feel those positives are enough so you would want to retain him as manager? Later Winning managers are really a factor of their players, not their own ability. And he's not a winning manager with the Mets. I've heard some (Rich Coutino) say they've grown tired of Manuel's constant say one thing, do another, but in general, I agree that he gives good quotes and talks to the media, but that's not a reason to keep him for the Mets (for the Post maybe..) I actually think he's a negative in the clubhouse. I think he's too calm, too chatty, and not focused or disciplined enough to control what needs to be controled. It helps when you get guys you dislike out (Castro, Church) but I can't see how guys like Murphy and Pagan can like him. Reyes, while maybe respecting him, still disagrees with him quite a bit and isn't afraid to show it (sacrificing for a hit instead of just sacrificing, way back in the first game when he tried torefuse to come out) I find very little redeemable about Jerry. Maybe the willingness to do things a little differently, but often time his different is just stupid.

Ashie62 May 19 2010 05:06 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

For better of worse Jerry has become the poster boy for the laughingstock Mets Goodbye Jerry, Warthen, Hojo, and Omar

Swan Swan H May 19 2010 06:58 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I can't see how guys like Murphy and Pagan can like him. What does that mean? Why those two guys? And what insight are you using to make such a determination?

Nymr83 May 19 2010 07:05 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Valdes on to pitch the 7th, leadoff double...

batmagadanleadoff May 19 2010 07:38 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Swan Swan H wrote: I can't see how guys like Murphy and Pagan can like him. What does that mean? Why those two guys? And what insight are you using to make such a determination? Because Murphy's injury is Jerry's fault. Because it's Jerry's fault that Ike Davis has developed into one great baseball story. I also blame Jerry for the avatars not working. What? I gotta explain it to you?

Edgy DC May 20 2010 06:17 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Valentine criticizes management. Albany T-U: Manuel must be on his way out. Newark S-L: Manuel running out of lineups (which I read as "Manuel running out of time").

Ashie62 May 20 2010 06:49 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Aw, Bobby you had to open your mouth? My money is on Chip Hale for nrxt mgr.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 20 2010 07:26 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Influential alternative media outlet Mets by the Numbers is now calling for Jerry's ouster. Sha-na-na, na-na-na, na-na-na. [url]http://mbtn.net/when-its-time-change-then-its-time-change

metirish May 20 2010 07:28 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Is that a classic 70's shot of you?

Edgy DC May 20 2010 07:33 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

I can barely watch anymore, yet we see it almost every night: The Mets get a leadoff runner and in an effort to choke dead whatever rally might come of it, Jerry foolishly orders someone to make an out on purpose, frequently removing an effective pitcher while doing so, reducing the number of shots to drive the guy in and asking the following batter, no matter how bad he's struggling, to make something happen or bring real pressure on the guy following him. Once he's turned the game inside-out to get that single run (if that), they've barely inched closer to victory since it's now a question of whether the beleaguered bullpen, the same two guys whether they're winning, losing or tied, can be nothing less than perfect or risk a humiliating fate. And since the bulletproof bullpen Jerry quixotically pursues exists mostly in theory and rarely in practice, the games are always too close and failures continue to pile up: They're barely playing .250 ball on the road, and it's a disgrace. Call the Pulitzer folks. The year has ended in May.

G-Fafif May 20 2010 08:02 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Per LBJ on Walter Cronkite and Vietnam, if Jerry has lost MBTN, he's lost the country.

Ceetar May 20 2010 08:09 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Swan Swan H wrote: I can't see how guys like Murphy and Pagan can like him. What does that mean? Why those two guys? And what insight are you using to make such a determination? I'm going back the entire history of Jerry's tenure, but Murphy seemed so jerked around to me by the Manuel (and the Mets, who knows who was really responsible) but asked a (Basically) rookie to go to winterball and play 2B (after calling up the mainly 3Bman to play LF in the majors) before bringing him to Spring Training to play LF and then as he's learning that have him start learning 1B, and before he even gets 20 minutes at that, actually put him at 1B while criticizing his LF skills openly. Toss him between regular play and platoon play seemingly at whim, sit him after a couple of good games, and bat him in a different place in the order every day. That's the things I look at when I feel that Manuel makes decisions based on personal preference rather than what's best for the team. My thing with Pagan is that here's a guy that's played great for the Mets, played hard, batted .300 with the Mets in his careeer (just shy of a full seasons worth of games) and Manuel still decided to give Gary Matthews Jr a shot for the first week of the season. And it was only because Matthews was (and is) so mindnumblingly awful that got him to change his mind.

Edgy DC May 20 2010 08:31 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Let's be fair here. Even to Jerry. Playing second in the offseason isn't Jerry's call. He didn't play it in winter ball. He played it in the fall, at the Arizona Fall League. The plan was for him then to continue his season by playing the outfield in a winter Latin American assignment, but he got hurt. Manuel gave him a vote of confidence (un-neccessarily, I think) by declaring that Tatis would be more likely to take PT from Ryan Church than Murphy, who was "better" than a platoon player. He actually lobbied Manuel for a chance to play first. If Manuel deserves any heat there, it's that he had so lost faith in Murphy's glove from his outfield misadventures that he held off giving him a chance for two weeks, tryiing even the likes of Jeromy Reed first.

Swan Swan H May 20 2010 08:41 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

OK, a dozen points to pick on there, but: who knows who was really responsible Clearly you don't, and you state as much, but that doesn't stop you from using your opinion of this stuff you post. Re: Murphy's position, I would think that he would welcome the chance to prove himself in the majors at a position other than his natural position, considering that that position (3B) is likely occupied for years to come. At the time Delgado was the 1B, so LF was really the only place for him. When that didn't work out he wasn't buried, he was given a chance to play almost every day at a new position. So, the guy flamed out at a position he had played the year before, yet was still given 556 plate appearances in 2009. Hard to pile that up when you're being "Toss(ed)... between regular play and platoon play seemingly at whim, (and sat) after a couple of good games." Re: Pagan, he did not play great last year, he played pretty well when he wasn't throwing to the wrong bases and running the Mets out of innings. Manuel was stuck with Matthews, and 41 games into the season Pagan has started 34 and Matthews has started 10. Pagan has played quite well this year, making virtually none of the mistakes he made last year, and has earned the starting job. Yet, you surmise that you can't see how Pagan "'can like" Manuel when he did what young players have done since the ball was filled with feathers, played better than a veteran and won the job. At this point I'd think he'd be quite happy with the way Jerry is treating him. The bit about 'personal preference' is just silly. That's a manager's job, to decide who he prefers playing a position based on his experience and opinion. I get that you disagree with the decision, and I very often do as well, but to imply that this is different from what Bobby Cox, John McGraw or Walter Alston did is ridiculous, or at best semantics. Wrong, perhaps, but he's doing what he's supposed to do. We get it, you hate Manuel. You have used words like stupid and idiot to describe the man. I think that the Mets would be better off with a different manager, but I don't see a need for character assassination or flights of fantasy regarding his relationship with players based on heaven knows what you cook up in your blog.

Ashie62 May 20 2010 08:50 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

You all have solid cogent points. MY O is that if a business isn't running properly at some point enough is enough. It may not be fair, but that's just me.

Benjamin Grimm May 20 2010 08:58 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Jerry isn't the sole reason the Mets are doing badly, but he's definitely part of the problem. He's not part of the solution.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 20 2010 09:02 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 20 2010 09:07 AM

He didn't mistreat Murphy. And previous Pagan managers have had him so far in their respective doghouses that he sat behind an old John Mabry and a putrid Felix Pie (a free-swinging, .sub-.300 OBPing 54 OPS+) in the bench pecking order, each for the better part of a year; one actually started middling defensive leftfielder Jacque Jones-- OPSing .735 the bad way (low OBP/middling SLG)-- in center field over him*. He may have done so belatedly, but he has trusted Pagan's talent with playing time, rewarded Pagan's performance with a regular starting job (as he had last year before the injury), and seems to have consistently tried to work through the brainfarts as opposed to red-assing him for them. Also, dude, none of us here-- unless JoePet has even more access than UniWatch lets on-- has any idea what he's like behind closed doors with the players, so let's leave that part out, K? *When you look back at it, Lou Pinella's first Cubs outfield-- Soriano, Jones, dessicated husk of Uncle Cliffy, left to right-- was, like, historically terrible.

Frayed Knot May 20 2010 09:05 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Yeah, Jerry has enough problems without blaming him for things not under his control. - Murphy played 2nd base in the AFL because that's where a spot were open (teams apply for limited spots for their players) and because if you want to find out if the guy has any defensive versatility that's the best place to do it. - he got stuck in LF during his early stint in the majors because that's where there were ABs to be found. It was either that or sit on the bench because there was certainly no case to be made for starting him over Wright or Delgado. Sounds to me like Jerry was doing the guy a favor. - Pagan's biggest problem over the last few years have been his bad fundamentals and his inability to stay off the DL while other injuries were opening up opportunities all over the field

Ashie62 May 20 2010 09:23 AM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

The Mets are moribund. make the move. If not now when??? Are we waiting for 24-38 or 38-24?

bmfc1 Oct 04 2010 01:41 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

Gwreck said October 5. Unless I missed something, he wins.

Zvon Oct 04 2010 09:56 PM Re: Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

bmfc1 wrote: Gwreck said October 5. Unless I missed something, he wins. lol, very kool. Very smart choice too. Gwreck, I salute you.