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Jeff Francoeur

Centerfield May 24 2010 12:25 PM

Is killing this team. He has an OPS of .346 in May (.635 overall). How much longer do you run him out there?

metirish May 24 2010 12:27 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

He's great in the clubhouse , I saw a line of his recently of what he's doing since sometime in April...it was horrid.

Nymr83 May 24 2010 12:28 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Centerfield wrote: Is killing this team. He has an OPS of .346 in May (.635 overall). How much longer do you run him out there? i guess until Beltran returns and Pagan plays RF? Is Fernando Martinez demonstrating himself to be more ready than last year? Can Carter play out there every day?

Ceetar May 24 2010 12:30 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

I figure he needs to sit and get some days off and work on discipline. let Carter start for a day or two. He's still overall done well as a Met, but clock is ticking. Hopefully we get some news on Beltran in the next week or so. Hopefully that news is positive, in which case you probably ride Francoeur out, if not, you look for a replacement sooner rather than later. see if they can throw in a SP while you're at it. Maybe swapping out the hitting couch will give Francoeur another boost of productivity? Carter probably can't play everyday and didn't F-Mart get hurt? again?

metirish May 24 2010 12:31 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

I think Fernando is on the DL...or was recently

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 24 2010 12:33 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

As it stands, he's a $5 million dollar outfield arm. And his plate approach seems to be devolving before our eyes. I like Carter in there to spell him for now, at least for Pelfrey/groundball-y starts and particularly tough righties.

Gwreck May 24 2010 12:37 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 24 2010 12:37 PM

The money is irrelevant at this point: we're stuck paying, he's so bad nobody's going to take him and he's a FA at the end of the year. I say whoever hits (especially given our problems there) and Francoeur can always come in as a defensive replacement late in the game. I'd even try Murphy in RF if need be.

Centerfield May 24 2010 12:37 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Really? You guys would wait until Beltran comes back? Last two wins notwithstanding, this team needs an offensive jolt. If I'm Jerry Manuel and I need to win now, Carter is my starting rightfielder. I also slot in Daniel Murphy as soon as he's back. 1. Reyes 2. Pagan 3. Wright 4. Davis 5. Bay 6. Murphy 7. Carter 8. Barajas Against a lefty, I slot in Tatis at second

Gwreck May 24 2010 12:38 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

You think Murphy can play second? I think we could probably hide him in RF but I have my doubts about second.

Ceetar May 24 2010 12:41 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Centerfield wrote: Really? You guys would wait until Beltran comes back? Last two wins notwithstanding, this team needs an offensive jolt. If I'm Jerry Manuel and I need to win now, Carter is my starting rightfielder. I also slot in Daniel Murphy as soon as he's back. 1. Reyes 2. Pagan 3. Wright 4. Davis 5. Bay 6. Murphy 7. Carter 8. Barajas Against a lefty, I slot in Tatis at second I think if Reyes and Bay are going to start hitting, Frenchy won't be such an eyesore, and if we know Beltran actively playing rehab games towards coming back, then we live with it, but only if Beltran is making that progress. The bigger a ? Beltran is, the more you look to replace Frenchy immediately. Preferably with lots of platooning of Carter and Murphy and what not. (Murphy will/can spark a completely different debate about whether he can play the outfield and blah blah blah. He's not great out there, but I think he'd be fine) Murphy at second? (probably need another thread for this) I think he'd be okay. Hits more than Cora, and probably much more than Tejada.

Centerfield May 24 2010 12:45 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Gwreck wrote: You think Murphy can play second? I think we could probably hide him in RF but I have my doubts about second. I have no idea. But this team needs offense really bad (13th out 16 NL teams in OPS). I hear Murphy was passable in the AFL. I'd at least give it a try. All I know is, if my job were on the line, I'd hate to go down with Cora and Francoeur.

metirish May 24 2010 12:48 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

But bad defense can cost you games , throwing Murphy out there because his bat should be better is flawed......and as a Lawyer you should know that.

Swan Swan H May 24 2010 12:50 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Why not give Carter a shot against some, if not all righthanders? Stick him in the seven hole and see what he can do for a couple of weeks. Francoeur is so lost right now that it can't be worse offensively, and Carter should get the chance to prove whether his bad defensive rep is warranted. If he's that bad out there he loses the odd start against, for example, the Phils with their lefty pull-hitting lineup, but I'd give him a chance.

metirish May 24 2010 12:52 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Why not have "The Animal" play second.....let him go berserk out there.

attgig May 24 2010 12:52 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Swan Swan H wrote: Why not give Carter a shot against some, if not all righthanders? Stick him in the seven hole and see what he can do for a couple of weeks. Francoeur is so lost right now that it can't be worse offensively, and Carter should get the chance to prove whether his bad defensive rep is warranted. If he's that bad out there he loses the odd start against, for example, the Phils with their lefty pull-hitting lineup, but I'd give him a chance. agreed. leave 2b as it is, until Murph is actually playing games in AAA at 2b, and doing well - not just passable. And anyone who wants murph in rf, do you remember how he was in LF?!??? No way I want him in my OF. And as that experiment showed, I do NOT want him LEARNING a position in flushing.... no way. Put Carter in RF. Let him play against all RHP.

Edgy DC May 24 2010 12:55 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

I don't know why I should think that Carter "can't" play every day. If there's such a think as "can't" regarding everydayness, Francoeur is demonstrating it. Right now, I don't think it's a question of everydayness, but Carter stealing PT from French as the performance indicates. But I think Jerry is going to be more prone to looking to pull Carter for Francoeur to get a late-game matchup rather than pull Francoeur for Carter as (1) he has more of a professional interest in getting Francoeur going, and (2) French provides that late game defense that makes him feel good. He was .400 / .454 / .700 // 1.154 in his first three games after sitting two in a row in Florida and Atlanta, but then went 0-10 against the Yankees while Carter only got to the plate once. I suspect Jerry hoped he had gotten him going and hadn't. And, hey, we have a Frenchy thread.

Fman99 May 24 2010 12:55 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

attgig wrote: agreed. leave 2b as it is, until Murph is actually playing games in AAA at 2b, and doing well - not just passable. And anyone who wants murph in rf, do you remember how he was in LF?!??? No way I want him in my OF. And as that experiment showed, I do NOT want him LEARNING a position in flushing.... no way. Put Carter in RF. Let him play against all RHP. I agree on all points. Murphy was cringeworthy in the outfield last year. I would love to see Carter get a bigger chunk of playing time in the 7th/8th hole in RF.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 24 2010 12:57 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Also, about Carter... he has a minimal platoon split. If you were to sit him against lefties, it shouldn't be because he couldn't hit 'em. Also, about Francoeur... though he's likely nowhere near as good as he was starting the season, and he's likely nowhere near as bad as he has been since, he's probably much closer to the guy we've seen recently than the league-MVP-after-two-weeks mirage.

batmagadanleadoff May 24 2010 12:59 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Francoeur is devolving, like Leiter wrote a few posts ago. Either that, or he was just plain lucky at the beginning of this season. He's back to swinging at pitches as high as his adam's apple and barely higher than his ankles. During this Subway Series, Francoeur would've drawn a walk almost every time up if he never swung at a single pitch. I'm not hot on the idea of giving him more starts because Reyes is supposed to get hot soon and thus, compensate for Frenchy. The goal isn't to take one step forward and one step back and tread at or near .500.

batmagadanleadoff May 24 2010 01:04 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur Edited 3 time(s), most recently on May 24 2010 01:13 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I don't know why I should think that Carter "can't" play every day. If there's such a think as "can't" regarding everydayness, Francoeur is demonstrating it. Great point. And we might get to see Carter taking some of Frenchy's PT soon enough. Manuel seems to be managing for his life right now and desperate circumstances can bring about positive results. We saw it on Saturday when K-Rod was called in to pitch the 8th inning with the bases loaded and one out. On the other hand, Manuel, I think, would be less inclined now to do the unconventional and bat Reyes anywhere other than the leadoff spot. Even though a .210 hitter has as much business leading off as batting third.

metirish May 24 2010 01:06 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

I think Jerry is the type that firmly believes that a player can play his way out of a funk and thus Franoeur will play everyday.

Centerfield May 24 2010 01:08 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Everything I've read suggests that differences in defensive ability are far less significant than differences in offensive ability. So, given the choice between Cora (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, passable defense) I would go with Murphy. If, however, the choice becomes Corah (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, awful defense) then I guess I would reconsider.

Ceetar May 24 2010 01:14 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Centerfield wrote: Everything I've read suggests that differences in defensive ability are far less significant than differences in offensive ability. So, given the choice between Cora (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, passable defense) I would go with Murphy. If, however, the choice becomes Corah (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, awful defense) then I guess I would reconsider. You have to factor in the idea that this could mean Cora's bad offense in 2011 as well. But Murphy as ok offense and passable defense (something I think will happen in the infield at least) is also probably better than bad-passable offense and good defense in what Tejada probably gives us. This all predicated on Castillo's foot not magically healing on it's own with him sitting with it up for 2 weeks.

Benjamin Grimm May 24 2010 01:18 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Centerfield wrote: So, given the choice between Cora (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, passable defense) I would go with Murphy. Replace "Alex Cora" and "Daniel Murphy" with "Brian Giles" and "Wally Backman" and you have the decision that Davey Johnson made in 1984. Davey always opted for offense over defense, and it generally worked out. I'd like to see Murphy play a lot of second base at Buffalo for a while, and see what we've got.

Ceetar May 24 2010 01:30 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Centerfield wrote: So, given the choice between Cora (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, passable defense) I would go with Murphy. Replace "Alex Cora" and "Daniel Murphy" with "Brian Giles" and "Wally Backman" and you have the decision that Davey Johnson made in 1984. Davey always opted for offense over defense, and it generally worked out. I'd like to see Murphy play a lot of second base at Buffalo for a while, and see what we've got. Except presumably the need for 2B is now, not in a month.

Swan Swan H May 24 2010 01:31 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

I haven't seen anything from Daniel Murphy that makes him look at all like a second baseman, but I'm glad they're giving him a chance to try it. So far he has been unable to play the second-easiest position on the defensive spectrum worth a lick, and was about adequate at the easiest, and now he's being asked to move to the second-hardest (non-battery) position. There's no doubt he'll bust his ass to improve, and I'm pulling for him to succeed because he's a good hitter and a likable guy, but this is a bit of a hill to climb.

Edgy DC May 24 2010 02:04 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Centerfield wrote: So, given the choice between Cora (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, passable defense) I would go with Murphy. Replace "Alex Cora" and "Daniel Murphy" with "Brian Giles" and "Wally Backman" and you have the decision that Davey Johnson made in 1984. Davey always opted for offense over defense, and it generally worked out. I'd like to see Murphy play a lot of second base at Buffalo for a while, and see what we've got. I'm certain that (1) Brian Giles was better than Alex Cora, and (2) Wally Backman was markedly better than anything we can expect from Murphy any time soon. I think it's a little premature to fill the Francoeur thread with posts about the making Murphy the full-time segundo when he has yet to get a part-time job at the position at high-A.

metirish May 24 2010 02:06 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

I tend to agree with you edgy bit I think it speaks to how awful Francoeur has been though.

Ceetar May 24 2010 02:10 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Well, let's see where they play Murphy in Buffalo. Looking at their roster, the Bisons have 5 OF, two on the DL, 2 LF and a CF. Val pascucci (listed as 1B) and Feliciano (who's the CF and the Mets have shown no inclination to promote) are the guys who played RF this weekend. Russ Adams, Alex Cintron, and Jon Malo listed as 2B. Oh, and Bump took the loss for Lehigh Valley yesterday. BUMP!

attgig May 24 2010 02:33 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Val Pascucci. good to know he's still around. though i doubt he'll ever see flushing, he tore up new orleans a few years ago.

Centerfield May 24 2010 03:26 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Obviously it would be ideal if we could give Murphy time in Buffalo, but Castillo is injured now. If you guys were the manager and your job was in jeopardy, would you really go with Alex Cora? I don't know.

attgig May 24 2010 03:30 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Centerfield wrote: Obviously it would be ideal if we could give Murphy time in Buffalo, but Castillo is injured now. If you guys were the manager and your job was in jeopardy, would you really go with Alex Cora? I don't know. alex cora vs a guy who's played 2b in the afl a couple years ago? yes. Do I bat Alex Cora 2nd in the order? hellz no.

batmagadanleadoff May 24 2010 03:49 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur Edited 2 time(s), most recently on May 24 2010 04:11 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Centerfield wrote: So, given the choice between Cora (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, passable defense) I would go with Murphy. Replace "Alex Cora" and "Daniel Murphy" with "Brian Giles" and "Wally Backman" and you have the decision that Davey Johnson made in 1984. Davey always opted for offense over defense, and it generally worked out. I'd like to see Murphy play a lot of second base at Buffalo for a while, and see what we've got. I'm certain that (1) Brian Giles was better than Alex Cora, and (2) Wally Backman was markedly better than anything we can expect from Murphy any time soon. But wasn't Grimm's point more about the relationship between Cora and Murphy (Giles is to Backman as Cora is to Murphy)? I'm a big fan of offense over defense, too. I'm still mourning the trade of Mora to the O's. Even before the trade, Mora was already showing 20+ HR power if given regular playing time. I'd bet that Davey would've lobbied to trade Rey instead of Mora. Twenty HR's from a SS in one season is nothing to sneeze at. But back to Murphy, Pete Rose got to play second base (along with almost every other position). And he sucked in the field. So there's that. And rate-wise offensively, Murph's first two seasons combined are better than Rose's first two seasons --- and this comparison necessarily includes Rose's rookie of the year campaign. I wouldn't bet on Murphy banging out 3,500 more hits going forward, though

Gwreck May 24 2010 03:58 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Centerfield wrote: Obviously it would be ideal if we could give Murphy time in Buffalo, but Castillo is injured now. If you guys were the manager and your job was in jeopardy, would you really go with Alex Cora? I don't know. I think we can sustain one guy who is in the lineup primarily for defense, not 2. With no Castillo, there needs to be an upgrade at either 2B or RF. Cora + Francoeur every day is unworkable. If he wanted to put Carter in RF and keep Cora at 2B, that might be ok.

Ashie62 May 24 2010 04:27 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Why not let Murphy play second this season. It could have quite the upside.

Edgy DC May 24 2010 05:26 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Because it could fail spectacularly, damaging both player and team. Nobody's been a bigger advocate for him at second than I have. I don't know how the zeitgeist has suddenly moved past me and I'm the wet blanket.

Valadius May 24 2010 06:12 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Seriously, what the hell does Val Pascucci have to do to sniff the majors?

Ashie62 May 24 2010 06:22 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Edgy DC wrote: Because it could fail spectacularly, damaging both player and team. Nobody's been a bigger advocate for him at second than I have. I don't know how the zeitgeist has suddenly moved past me and I'm the wet blanket. I like the risk/reward. It could solidify the position for some time

Edgy DC May 24 2010 06:32 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

He was pretty bad last year and very bad so far this year. His excellent play in 2008 for Norfolk was following some terrible play for Lehigh. He's got some thunder but also some rain. Fernando Tatis, who had 100 times the big-league resume that Pascucci has, still had to play well for a year and a third at AAA before the Mets gave him another shot.

Nymr83 May 24 2010 09:01 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Seriously, what the hell does Val Pascucci have to do to sniff the majors? "Play well" would be an obvious place to start as he is batting .167 for Buffalo so far after hitting .248/.348/.445 in the hitter-friendly PCL last year. What ever chances he may have deserved in the past have nothing to do with now who would you suggest Pascucci replace on this roster? Certainly not Ike Davis. Chris Carter was out playing him by a wide margin this year, and did so last year in AAA as well (and in the tougher on hitters of the two AAA leagues). he cant replace GMJ (and if GMJ was to be replaced there are better candidates), and i don't think tatis would be a good idea as that leaves Cora the only backup at three infield positions (where tatis can at least play 3rd), besides tatis might not be great but he hasnt done anything to deserve to be cut right now.

Ceetar May 24 2010 09:07 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Nymr83 wrote: Seriously, what the hell does Val Pascucci have to do to sniff the majors? "Play well" would be an obvious place to start as he is batting .167 for Buffalo so far after hitting .248/.348/.445 in the hitter-friendly PCL last year. What ever chances he may have deserved in the past have nothing to do with now who would you suggest Pascucci replace on this roster? Certainly not Ike Davis. Chris Carter was out playing him by a wide margin this year, and did so last year in AAA as well (and in the tougher on hitters of the two AAA leagues). he cant replace GMJ (and if GMJ was to be replaced there are better candidates), and i don't think tatis would be a good idea as that leaves Cora the only backup at three infield positions (where tatis can at least play 3rd), besides tatis might not be great but he hasnt done anything to deserve to be cut right now. How many backups do you need at any position? even catcher you really only have 1 backup. Murphy for instance, certainly has as much ability to play 2B or 3B or 1B as Tatis does. I'd say better as he's younger and seems to have more range. and is a better hitter with at least as much power. Tatis hasn't done anything to deserve being cut, no, but sometimes you get cut because there are just better players than you too. Not that I'm advocating Pascucci, as there are other guys I'd given a shot to, even if they're probably crap. I'd still promote a guy like Jesus Feliciano while he's hot. Ride the hot hand..maybe he gives you a good week. I would've had Nick Evans or Jason Pridie up here pretty fast when I realized Gary Matthews was complete crap.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 24 2010 09:28 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Ceetar wrote: How many backups do you need at any position? even catcher you really only have 1 backup. Murphy for instance, certainly has as much ability to play 2B or 3B or 1B as Tatis does. I'd say better as he's younger and seems to have more range. and is a better hitter with at least as much power. Tatis hasn't done anything to deserve being cut, no, but sometimes you get cut because there are just better players than you too. Tatis hasn't been playing poorly... he hasn't been playing, period. Two weeks in single-A notwithstanding, neither has Murphy. I'd like for Murphy to do what you're suggesting he's done. But he hasn't done any of it, yet-- hell, he hasn't even mastered an upper level for a year in the minors. So I won't consider him a better player than Tatis-- much less advocate cutting Tatis in his favor-- until he, y'know, plays better than him for a bit. But anyway, back to Francoeur... yeah, though he probably won't, Manuel needs to try something else. Because this isn't working, and though he's probably the best defensive option there of the guys who aren't starting yet, he's no Endy. And Endy wouldn't start if he were here and OPSing .635 for over a month.

Edgy DC May 24 2010 10:31 PM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Ceetar wrote: How many backups do you need at any position? One would be nice? Are we still talking about Pascucci? Murphy for instance, certainly has as much ability to play 2B or 3B or 1B as Tatis does. I'd say better as he's younger and seems to have more range. and is a better hitter with at least as much power. Based on what? Tatis hasn't done anything to deserve being cut, no, but sometimes you get cut because there are just better players than you too. Or that you hope you have better players, it would seem.

Ceetar May 25 2010 05:40 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Tatis hasn't done anything to deserve being cut, no, but sometimes you get cut because there are just better players than you too. Or that you hope you have better players, it would seem.

Well yes, but the Mets have a ton of guys capable of evaluating players. It's still gonna just be hope, but Tatis has never struck me as very valuable, especially last year, and I can't see how he's getting better.

Frayed Knot May 25 2010 07:03 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

how many backups do you need at any position? Bobby V used to talk about wanting to be "three deep" at each position. Not that there'd be three guys sitting around waiting for #s 1 + 2 to get hurt or that there'd necessarily be three guys that you'd WANT to put at each spot - but just the idea that you maintained a kind of depth chart (even if just in your head) to where each spot would be covered during those wacky games or because of in-game injuries. And, obviously, the size of the roster dictates that there's a lot of overlap. Tatis, for instance, would be the #3 guy at several positions on this team. Murphy, hopefully, could be the same.

Edgy DC May 25 2010 07:29 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Edgy DC wrote: Murphy for instance, certainly has as much ability to play 2B or 3B or 1B as Tatis does. I'd say better as he's younger and seems to have more range. and is a better hitter with at least as much power. Based on what? I'd really like an answer to this. This thread is rapidly spinning out of control. Suffice to say, I really think three proposals above --- making Murphy the starting secondbaseman forthwith; releasing Tatis to clear roster room for Murphy; and promoting Val Pascucci --- seem desperate and self-evidently counter-productive, and I don't know where they are coming from. I think Valentine went four-deep at every position.

Centerfield May 25 2010 07:57 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Edgy DC wrote: Suffice to say, I really think three proposals above --- making Murphy the starting secondbaseman forthwith; releasing Tatis to clear roster room for Murphy; and promoting Val Pascucci --- seem desperate and self-evidently counter-productive, and I don't know where they are coming from. I will let you continue your arguments on points 2 and 3 with those proposing them (I am not), but I don't think you can call naming Murphy the starting second baseman "desperate and self-evidently counterproductive". Unless we have evidence that Murphy is horrid at second base, the most we can say is that it's an unknown. We do know that Murphy is a much better hitter than Cora. He gets on base more, he hits for more power. Overall, it's a difference of over 100 points in OPS. Plus, Murphy is much more likely to improve on his career numbers than Cora. We can assume that Alex is a better fielding second baseman than Murphy, but by how much? Enough to offset 100 points of OPS? How can you know until you try? First base is a much tougher position than leftfield. I would never have guessed Murphy would be passable based on what I saw from him in the outfield, but he handled himself surprisingly well. You argue that the move could fail spectacularly, damaging the player and the team. How would it damage the player? If he sucks, just don't put him there anymore. Sure, it could damage the team if he's terrible, but this team is in last place as it is. You can't drop any lower than that. This team's OPS is 13 out of 16 in the NL. Simply stated, it is not going to win a thing unless something changes and they find more offense. Every move has potential risk. I just don't see why a last place team would stick with something that is obviously not working and not try something that might help.

Edgy DC May 25 2010 08:09 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

I'll start here. How can you know until you try? By first getting him some work in the minors where he can be observed at the position. The guy is coming off a leg injury to boot. First base is a much tougher position than leftfield. I think that's debateable in general, but certainly so for a guy who had played mostly third throughout his minor league career and some first. I would never have guessed Murphy would be passable based on what I saw from him in the outfield, but he handled himself surprisingly well. Sure, based on what you sure in the outfield, but based on him having historically been an infielder, not so much. Virtually everybody transitions smoothly from third to first. As for Davey Johnson, it's improtant to remember that, yeah, he started Kevin Mitchell at shortstop --- but once every three-four weeks.

MFS62 May 25 2010 08:20 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I'm still mourning the trade of Mora to the O's. Even before the trade, Mora was already showing 20+ HR power if given regular playing time. I'd bet that Davey would've lobbied to trade Rey instead of Mora. Twenty HR's from a SS in one season is nothing to sneeze at. You don't have to go that far back to find a should'/coulda' deal that involved trading an infielder who could hit for one with better defense. what about Ty Wiggington, who has turned into sort of a poor man's Dan Uggla, for Jeff Keppinger? Hey, IMO, Jeff Keppinger would even be better than Cora. Later

Centerfield May 25 2010 08:21 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Edgy DC wrote: I'll start here. How can you know until you try? By first getting him some work in the minors where he can be observed at the position. The guy is coming off a leg injury to boot. I guess this, in a nutshell, is where we disagree. Right now, Castillo is hurt and Murphy is healthy. I say you try him out at the majors and get the benefit of his 100 points of OPS over Cora during this stage. You'd rather go with Cora. I think reasonable arguments can be made for both sides. I don't think the proposal is desperate at all. And certainly not self-evident.

Edgy DC May 25 2010 08:28 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Well, we're assuming that he's healthy, but hat may be a relative thing. He's had two months off and it's hard enough to hit the ground running under those circumstances. And I don't really want Cora. I accept that some combination of Cora, Tatis, Tejada, and Adams may be the best current solution. And if he's not being disabled, I assume Castillo will be available shortly, and this will be moot. At any rate, Murphy's been assigned to Buff. We'll see where he plays. He didn't play for them last night.

Vince Coleman Firecracker May 25 2010 08:42 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

How about Tatis everyday in right with some Carter mixed in? Tatis has been league average-ish on defense in the outfield and is a better hitter than Jeff Francoeur.

Edgy DC May 25 2010 08:58 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Wait a minute. We're talking about what to do about Francoeur now? The name of this thread is... Oh yeah, right.

attgig May 25 2010 09:34 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

If you're playing a Tatis/Carter platoon, cut frenchy? frenchy off the bench? seems like keeping him on the bench is solely for defensive purposes? seems like we can do better than Frenchy in the open market for a defensive replacement, no? Sure, he may have an arm, but does he really do anything else?

Vince Coleman Firecracker May 25 2010 09:40 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

attgig wrote: If you're playing a Tatis/Carter platoon, cut frenchy? frenchy off the bench? seems like keeping him on the bench is solely for defensive purposes? seems like we can do better than Frenchy in the open market for a defensive replacement, no? Sure, he may have an arm, but does he really do anything else? Francoeur has a career .345 wOBA vs left-handed pitchers. That's good enough, I think, to be a useful pinch hitter.

attgig May 25 2010 09:46 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: attgig wrote: If you're playing a Tatis/Carter platoon, cut frenchy? frenchy off the bench? seems like keeping him on the bench is solely for defensive purposes? seems like we can do better than Frenchy in the open market for a defensive replacement, no? Sure, he may have an arm, but does he really do anything else? Francoeur has a career .345 wOBA vs left-handed pitchers. That's good enough, I think, to be a useful pinch hitter. but not good enough to start RF over Tatis? With Tatis as a bench guy, you at least get all the corner positions, and SS/2B as an emergency situation.

Vince Coleman Firecracker May 25 2010 10:28 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

attgig wrote: Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: Francoeur has a career .345 wOBA vs left-handed pitchers. That's good enough, I think, to be a useful pinch hitter. but not good enough to start RF over Tatis? With Tatis as a bench guy, you at least get all the corner positions, and SS/2B as an emergency situation. Well, yeah. Tatis has been a better hitter than Francoeur over the course of their careers, and isn't awful in the field. Francoeur shouldn't be starting, but he might still be useful as a pinch hitter against lefties. If you needed to move Tatis to any of those other positions, you don't need him to be on the bench. You could just hand him a different glove in between innings. EDIT-Also, what about giving Jesus Feliciano a few games? He's been playing well for Buffalo and can't be much worse than Francoeur's been.

attgig May 25 2010 11:20 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

or how about they stick hessman out in RF. he's doing even better....

Centerfield Jun 07 2010 10:09 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

Well since I started this tread, Francoeur has raised his OPS by more than 100 points and Murphy went down with a season-ending injury playing second base. I should be fired.

attgig Jun 07 2010 10:12 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

or you can start a thread about tatis, and maybe he'll bring his OPS up...

Edgy DC Jun 07 2010 10:20 AM Re: Jeff Francoeur

... or get him killed.